Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success)
what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than the
price of gold? I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to make a
silly zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public bathroom
and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or 3/4" phenolic
sheets; certainly others have seen this too? There's no WAY these
sheets can cost anywhere near what the woodworking supply companies are
sticking us for router plate material; it would cost upwards of $5000
just to put a few stalls in a bathroom! Any ideas?
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Jan 24, 9:47=A0am, Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success)
> what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than the
> price of gold? =A0I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to make a
> silly zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public bathroom
> and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or 3/4" phenolic
> sheets; certainly others have seen this too? =A0There's no WAY these
> sheets can cost anywhere near what the woodworking supply companies are
> sticking us for router plate material; it would cost upwards of $5000
> just to put a few stalls in a bathroom! =A0Any ideas?
>
> --
> Free bad advice available here.
> To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
I found UHMW at a local "rubber & gasket" supply house. I've bought
it in 3/4" and 1/2" cut to order VERY reasonable. I later found that
they offer recycled UHMW it was even cheaper, but it is bright green.
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:36:53 -0600, "DanG" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You might be quite shocked to find out what toilet partitions
>cost. Gibraltor brand are solid phenolic capped with a melamine
>final surface. Santana is solid plastic . Bobrick is a hybrid
>fiberglass/plastic type product. Stainless steel, marble, etc
>round out the possibilities. At the bottom end are painted steel
>and Formica clad particle board.
>
>Painted steel is the cheapest. $50-75 per surface - each door,
>pilaster, side wall and additional money for hardware and clips.
>Santana well over $200 per surface. Gibraltor and Bobrick quite a
>bit higher.
Santana partitions are pretty good and reasonably priced compared to
competition. The School District I work for has used it extensively as
it does a good job of resisting the efforts of the little bast... er,
little darlings to write on it, carve on it, burn it and otherwise
trash their schools. It also doen't rust (even when regularly peed
upon), doesn't absorb odors, is easily installed, holds well to
fasteners, etc. I have a nice sheet of their stuff in black from when
a renovation was done. Many years old (I think it was in that restroom
for about 25 years) and still in great shape. Have had it for several
years and haven't quite decided what to use it for... For the prior
poster, a decent set of stalls in a reasonably sized public restroom
that are designed to take this kind of abuse for 30 to 40 years will
most definitely cost more than $5,000 when you include hardware and
installation. Material cost differences between a good product like
Santana and some painted steel stalls that will be ready for the
dumpster in 5 years (if they can even last that long) is really
minimal to the overall project cost.
"Jay Giuliani" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I used a hard plastic material, actal type unknown.
>
> I was in the local Bed, Bath and Beyond a couple of months ago and they
> had some food prep boards made of a whitish, opaqure plastic for a couple
> of bucks apiece.
>
> I bought one and experimented with it.
>
> I was able to cut it easily on a small bandsaw and used a forstner bid to
> cut recesses for the mounting tans on the table top.
>
> For the slot, I just slowly brought the blade up therough the material at
> full tilt to the left and then the right.
>
> I trimmed it with the router and it works great.
>
> I went back and bought a few more and have been making inserts for the
> other tools as needed.
>
>
Good idea and thanks for the tip. I went to a BBB today and tested the
bendability of small cutting boards. I found the Bamboo board to be the
strongest, therefore, made the purchase. Now, I'll experiment with it in my
table.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Roger amd Missy Behnke wrote:
>> "J. >
>>> Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted enough
>>> for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board
>>> with a plastic overlay.
>>>
>>>
>> There are a variety of materials used. Bobrick offers a phenolic
>> core
>> covered with laminate. They are significantly more expensive than
>> the metal or particle board types.
>
> Interesting--I've got to start hanging out in a better class of public
> toilet <grin>.
Have you tried the Minneapolis airport terminal men's room? I hear you
can meet U. S. senators there.
Dave in Houston
You might be quite shocked to find out what toilet partitions
cost. Gibraltor brand are solid phenolic capped with a melamine
final surface. Santana is solid plastic . Bobrick is a hybrid
fiberglass/plastic type product. Stainless steel, marble, etc
round out the possibilities. At the bottom end are painted steel
and Formica clad particle board.
Painted steel is the cheapest. $50-75 per surface - each door,
pilaster, side wall and additional money for hardware and clips.
Santana well over $200 per surface. Gibraltor and Bobrick quite a
bit higher.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some
> success) what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for
> something less than the price of gold? I don't see why it
> should cost $25 to $50 to make a silly zero-clearance table saw
> insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public
> bathroom and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2"
> or 3/4" phenolic sheets; certainly others have seen this too?
> There's no WAY these sheets can cost anywhere near what the
> woodworking supply companies are sticking us for router plate
> material; it would cost upwards of $5000 just to put a few
> stalls in a bathroom! Any ideas?
>
> --
> Free bad advice available here.
> To reply, eat the taco.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
I used a hard plastic material, actal type unknown.
I was in the local Bed, Bath and Beyond a couple of months ago and they had
some food prep boards made of a whitish, opaqure plastic for a couple of
bucks apiece.
I bought one and experimented with it.
I was able to cut it easily on a small bandsaw and used a forstner bid to
cut recesses for the mounting tans on the table top.
For the slot, I just slowly brought the blade up therough the material at
full tilt to the left and then the right.
I trimmed it with the router and it works great.
I went back and bought a few more and have been making inserts for the other
tools as needed.
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success) what
> about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than the price
> of gold? I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to make a silly
> zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public bathroom
> and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or 3/4" phenolic
> sheets; certainly others have seen this too? There's no WAY these sheets
> can cost anywhere near what the woodworking supply companies are sticking
> us for router plate material; it would cost upwards of $5000 just to put a
> few stalls in a bathroom! Any ideas?
>
> --
> Free bad advice available here.
> To reply, eat the taco.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"J. >
> Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted enough
> for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board with
> a plastic overlay.
>
>
There are a variety of materials used. Bobrick offers a phenolic core
covered with laminate. They are significantly more expensive than the metal
or particle board types.
Jay Giuliani wrote:
> I used a hard plastic material, actal type unknown.
>
> I was in the local Bed, Bath and Beyond a couple of months ago and they
> had some food prep boards made of a whitish, opaqure plastic for a
> couple of bucks apiece.
>
> I bought one and experimented with it.
>
> I was able to cut it easily on a small bandsaw and used a forstner bid
> to cut recesses for the mounting tans on the table top.
>
> For the slot, I just slowly brought the blade up therough the material
> at full tilt to the left and then the right.
>
> I trimmed it with the router and it works great.
>
> I went back and bought a few more and have been making inserts for the
> other tools as needed.
I think I saw those, and I was tempted to buy a couple for that very
purpose. I'll have to go back and pick some up.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Jan 24, 4:42=A0pm, dhall987 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:36:53 -0600, "DanG" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >You might be quite shocked to find out what toilet partitions
> >cost. =A0Gibraltor brand are solid phenolic capped with a melamine
> >final surface. =A0Santana is solid plastic . =A0Bobrick is a hybrid
> >fiberglass/plastic type product. =A0Stainless steel, marble, etc
> >round out the possibilities. =A0At the bottom end are painted steel
> >and Formica clad particle board.
>
> >Painted steel is the cheapest. =A0$50-75 per surface - each door,
> >pilaster, side wall and additional money for hardware and clips.
> >Santana well over $200 per surface. =A0Gibraltor and Bobrick quite a
> >bit higher.
>
> Santana partitions are pretty good and reasonably priced compared to
> competition. The School District I work for has used it extensively as
> it does a good job of resisting the efforts of the little bast... er,
> little darlings to write on it, carve on it, burn it and otherwise
> trash their schools. It also doen't rust (even when regularly peed
> upon), doesn't absorb odors, is easily installed, holds well to
> fasteners, etc. I have a nice sheet of their stuff in black from when
> a renovation was done. Many years old (I think it was in that restroom
> for about 25 years) and still in great shape. Have had it for several
> years and haven't quite decided what to use it for... =A0For the prior
> poster, a decent set of stalls in a reasonably sized public restroom
> that are designed to take this kind of abuse for 30 to 40 years will
> most definitely cost more than $5,000 when you include hardware and
> installation. Material cost differences between a good product like
> Santana and some painted steel stalls that will be ready for the
> dumpster in 5 years (if they can even last that long) is really
> minimal to the overall project cost.
I have installed 3/4" Corian as partitions. Can be refinished,
impervious to acidic fluids,
easy to clean. Mind you, the installations were in a community
college, so the abuse was somewhat less than
the abuse younger, more energetic little snowflakes seem to impart on
shithouses.
No more pricey, at the time, than phenolic. I'm not even sure DuPont
makes 3/4" anymore.
I also installed some smaller partitions at a Holiday Inn. The were
1/2" material and were installed between urinals.
Colour matched to a series of 4-bowl vanities. Looked great years
later.
J. Clarke wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success)
>> what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than
>> the price of gold? I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to
>> make
>> a silly zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>>
>> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public
>> bathroom and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or
>> 3/4" phenolic sheets; certainly others have seen this too? There's
>> no WAY these sheets can cost anywhere near what the woodworking
>> supply companies are sticking us for router plate material; it would
>> cost upwards of $5000 just to put a few stalls in a bathroom! Any
>> ideas?
>
> Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted enough
> for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board with
> a plastic overlay.
I'm 95% sure the ones I've seen were not a plastic overlay. They were
machined all around the edges, and looked like solid material. The
stall doors were *very* solid, and I did quite a lot of tapping on them
with my knuckles to listen for the "tone" of the material (I am a
drummer, after all) and my sense was that they were indeed solid
phenolic. BTW, I did make sure no one else was in there, so as not to
receive any unwanted taps in return. :-)
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Jan 24, 10:47=A0am, Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success)
> what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than the
> price of gold? =A0I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to make a
> silly zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public bathroom
> and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or 3/4" phenolic
> sheets; certainly others have seen this too? =A0There's no WAY these
> sheets can cost anywhere near what the woodworking supply companies are
> sticking us for router plate material; it would cost upwards of $5000
> just to put a few stalls in a bathroom! =A0Any ideas?
>
> --
> Free bad advice available here.
> To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Most of the higher-end washroom I've seen use Corian, which is
absolutely beautiful stuff, if you can afford it. (Runs around $200
square foot for a 3/8" thick piece.)
I am looking into the possibility of carrying phenolic in my store
online, but only if I don't have to cut it. One of my suppliers for
the other materials has Phenolic cut-offs, but I don't know how much,
what size, yada, yada yet and I'm up to my ears in other stuff to do
right now.
I would suggest a really good alternative is Delrin, which I do
carry. It's rigid, as slippery as UHMW, and pretty easy to shape.
Another good alternative would by Nylon, although it's a bit more
difficult to work. You have to slow your saw down a bit and there's a
danger of chipping the material instead of cutting it, so use very
sharp bits, but it's within the range of workability for any home
shop. Oil-filled Nylons, like Nylon 6, Nylon GSM, are just about as
slippery as Phenolic.
A last alternative is Acrylic or Lexan. If you go to a thickness of
about 1/4", it's reasonably rigid, and cuts quite well ( especially
Lexan). You can usually find it fairly cheaply at any plastics supply
store ( I don't carry it for online sales because I can't get a
regular enough supply for my wholesale market yet, but I'm working on
it)
Steve Turner wrote:
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success)
> what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than
> the price of gold? I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to
> make
> a silly zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public
> bathroom and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or
> 3/4" phenolic sheets; certainly others have seen this too? There's
> no WAY these sheets can cost anywhere near what the woodworking
> supply companies are sticking us for router plate material; it would
> cost upwards of $5000 just to put a few stalls in a bathroom! Any
> ideas?
Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted enough
for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board with
a plastic overlay.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Steve Turner wrote:
> Since we're searching for low cost sources...
of moon gel?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner wrote:
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success)
> what about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than the
> price of gold? I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to make a
> silly zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public bathroom
> and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or 3/4" phenolic
> sheets; certainly others have seen this too? There's no WAY these
> sheets can cost anywhere near what the woodworking supply companies are
> sticking us for router plate material; it would cost upwards of $5000
> just to put a few stalls in a bathroom! Any ideas?
>
Simply supply and demand, coupled with market value.
How much will they pay for this and still buy it?
What do comparables sell for?
I told the story (rmmp, maybe) of buying products in craft store for
half the of what they charge for the same exact product, from the same
manufacturer, just in different colored/designed graphics, at Lowes/HD.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Jay Giuliani wrote:
> I used a hard plastic material, actal type unknown.
>
> I was in the local Bed, Bath and Beyond a couple of months ago and they
> had some food prep boards made of a whitish, opaqure plastic for a
> couple of bucks apiece.
>
> I bought one and experimented with it.
>
> I was able to cut it easily on a small bandsaw and used a forstner bid
> to cut recesses for the mounting tans on the table top.
>
> For the slot, I just slowly brought the blade up therough the material
> at full tilt to the left and then the right.
>
> I trimmed it with the router and it works great.
>
> I went back and bought a few more and have been making inserts for the
> other tools as needed.
>
I have a few of those, too. I gey them when those places go under and
have clearance sales. I use it for all kinds of jigs and sleds. It's not
quite the same as UHMW (at least not what I've bought from WC),
but works well for lots of stuff.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner wrote:
> I'm 95% sure the ones I've seen were not a plastic overlay. They were
> machined all around the edges, and looked like solid material.
I've seen what you're talking about and agree that they appeared to be
solid plastic.
The
> stall doors were *very* solid, and I did quite a lot of tapping on them
> with my knuckles ....
>
You sure you weren't tapping your foot on the foot in the next stall?
:-p
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner wrote:
>>> Since we're searching for low cost sources...
>>
>> of moon gel?
>
> Always! But not for router plates. :-)
>
I'm too embarrassed to ask over at rmmp, but do you remember any of the
suggestions for that.
I'm actually looking. I've been teaching drum tuning at a recording
school and I keep leaving them behind.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Roger amd Missy Behnke wrote:
> "J. >
>> Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted enough
>> for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board
>> with a plastic overlay.
>>
>>
> There are a variety of materials used. Bobrick offers a phenolic
> core
> covered with laminate. They are significantly more expensive than
> the metal or particle board types.
Interesting--I've got to start hanging out in a better class of public
toilet <grin>.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
DanG wrote:
> You might be quite shocked to find out what toilet partitions
> cost. Gibraltor brand are solid phenolic capped with a melamine
> final surface. Santana is solid plastic . Bobrick is a hybrid
> fiberglass/plastic type product. Stainless steel, marble, etc
> round out the possibilities. At the bottom end are painted steel
> and Formica clad particle board.
>
> Painted steel is the cheapest. $50-75 per surface - each door,
> pilaster, side wall and additional money for hardware and clips.
> Santana well over $200 per surface. Gibraltor and Bobrick quite a
> bit higher.
>
I imagine half the cost of R&D in that field is developing surfaces that
are resistant to Sharpie markers.
Now if you could just get people to install them with the doors opening
out (like the handicapped stalls), so I don't have to back up into the
toilet just to get out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
J. Clarke wrote:
> Roger amd Missy Behnke wrote:
>> "J. >
>>> Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted enough
>>> for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board
>>> with a plastic overlay.
>>>
>>>
>> There are a variety of materials used. Bobrick offers a phenolic
>> core
>> covered with laminate. They are significantly more expensive than
>> the metal or particle board types.
>
> Interesting--I've got to start hanging out in a better class of public
> toilet <grin>.
>
I was in a hotel restroom (Omni in ATL, or maybe the luxury box section
of that arena) that had solid hardwood panel partitions trimmed in what
I swear was Mahogany. Complete with valet dude drying your hands and
offering cologne and all that.
Now if the Flying J could get on board with that. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Dave in Houston wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Roger amd Missy Behnke wrote:
>>> "J. >
>>>> Is it really phenolic? The ones I've seen which were busted
>>>> enough
>>>> for the material to be identifiable were generally particle board
>>>> with a plastic overlay.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> There are a variety of materials used. Bobrick offers a phenolic
>>> core
>>> covered with laminate. They are significantly more expensive than
>>> the metal or particle board types.
>>
>> Interesting--I've got to start hanging out in a better class of
>> public toilet <grin>.
>
> Have you tried the Minneapolis airport terminal men's room? I
> hear you can meet U. S. senators there.
I'd rather "meet" a syphilitic porcupine.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
-MIKE- wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> Since we're searching for low cost sources...
>
> of moon gel?
Always! But not for router plates. :-)
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Since we're searching for low cost sources (and having some success) what
> about suppliers for sheets of phenolic for something less than the price
> of gold? I don't see why it should cost $25 to $50 to make a silly
> zero-clearance table saw insert or a router plate.
>
> There have been several occasions where I've gone into a public bathroom
> and found that the stall walls were made of solid 1/2" or 3/4" phenolic
> sheets; certainly others have seen this too? There's no WAY these sheets
> can cost anywhere near what the woodworking supply companies are sticking
> us for router plate material; it would cost upwards of $5000 just to put a
> few stalls in a bathroom! Any ideas?
>
> --
> Free bad advice available here.
> To reply, eat the taco.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
1/2" MDF works fine. Works out to about 35¢ each.
Not so good for bathroom stalls though.
Thanks,
I liked it because it was cheap.
I probably went thicker (about 7/16") than I needed but was also worried
about flex. I am not sure that is an issue though baseed on the amount of
deflection you actually would get on the small surface area of an insert
with the work piece sliding across and not held down with much pressure. I
can't imagine it would be noticeable.
I don't have a full size table saw due to space constraints, just a portable
contractors saw I do most of my edge work on a router tghat is built into
the top of my workbench..
I typically don't like working with the harder plastic or resin products
because the dust gets everywhere and my main shop is in the house. I am
only banished to the garage for finishing.
I bet the bamboo will look nice.
"SBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jay Giuliani" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I used a hard plastic material, actal type unknown.
>>
>> I was in the local Bed, Bath and Beyond a couple of months ago and they
>> had some food prep boards made of a whitish, opaqure plastic for a couple
>> of bucks apiece.
>>
>> I bought one and experimented with it.
>>
>> I was able to cut it easily on a small bandsaw and used a forstner bid to
>> cut recesses for the mounting tans on the table top.
>>
>> For the slot, I just slowly brought the blade up therough the material at
>> full tilt to the left and then the right.
>>
>> I trimmed it with the router and it works great.
>>
>> I went back and bought a few more and have been making inserts for the
>> other tools as needed.
>>
>>
> Good idea and thanks for the tip. I went to a BBB today and tested the
> bendability of small cutting boards. I found the Bamboo board to be the
> strongest, therefore, made the purchase. Now, I'll experiment with it in
> my table.
>