x-no-archive:yes
In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
made. You keep saying end grain up right?
Also, please refrain from smart remarks. Every question I ask is
legitamate. Why do you not yell at the guy who keeps posting about the
number of people dieing in Iraq?
I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
free country read someone elses post. I cant understand why it bothers
anyone. I put it on there on all my posts, even in other groups.
As far as asking the same question. If I have doen that i am sorry, I
am forgetful and may have ADD. (I have been on medicine before). I have
alot going on in my life with family and work. Again, if you dont like
reading them then dont.
I really thought this group was for helping people. After all the crap
I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
into it.
>In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
made. You keep saying end grain up right?
(Warning - this reply gets long...)
Yep, plain old mineral oil. This is good for cutting boards because it
doesn't polymerize or form a hard coating as it "dries". Therefore,
there is no hard coating to be chipped or cut into by knives as you use
the cutting board, but that also means it doesn't last as long or build
to any thickness, so you have to reapply it every once in a while. It
makes the wood look - um - oiled, at least for a while. Test on a
scrap, like you would with any other finish.
Some "real" butcher blocks or chopping blocks are end-grain-up, but in
common use, it seems "butcher block" has come to mean just about any
wood countertop. A quick google search and a little common sense
turned up the fact that end grain cutting boards are easier on your
knives and will let them stay sharp longer (see below also). They are
obviously more time-intensive and therefore more expensive to make,
however, so most cutting boards are flat grain. This works, of course,
as millions of people cut on flat-grain cutting boards every day. My
parents main cutting board for 15 years was a plain old square of 3/4"
plywood I made in 6th grade shop. Apparently it had sentimental value,
because it sure wasn't pretty. My point is that almost anything will
work. Up to you whether you want to spend the time to make an end-grain
board.
I think the reason people are upset at some of your frequent posts is
that you don't seem to do much research before posting. Google always
turns up a bunch of crap, but there is also a LOT of good info to be
found if you use your common sense filter. Also, if you don't use
google groups as your newsreader, you can at least search the archives
of this group there. Many many woodworking questions have already been
asked: for instance, below I've pasted most of a thread from 1996 that
I easily found when I searched this group for "end grain cutting
board":
> > I friend of mine said her husband had made a cutting board so
> > that the surface of the board was end-grain up.
> This is true Butcher Block, as it has been made for hundred of years. It
> resists splitting when chopped upon. It is a little bit harder to put
> together because more pices will b reguired for a given size.
> My experience has been that it soaks up more liquid than non face grain.
Absolutely correct. The best chopping blocks were originally a large
cross-section of tree trunk, that is all end grain. It doesn't split
and
knife cuts seperate the wood fibers instead of breaking them. It does
absorb more moisture. Old time butchers would periodically "salt" their
blocks. That is rub a good amount of table salt into the block, let it
sit overnight, then wipe it off. This would keep the board clean,
sanitary and dry. You can create the same effect by gluing together
strips of wood along the grain, then crosscutting and re-gluing again
to
create a kind of checkerboard which would be all end grain.
In conclusion, I'd recommend that you search Google, search the
rec.woodworking archives at google gruops, read some of your
woodworking books, and if applicable try out your idea in your shop
before asking a question here. If you're still confused, THEN take a
few minutes to put together a thoughtful post. (The usefulness of the
archives is also the main reason people don't want you to "xnoarchive"
your posts - maybe someone in the future could learn something from
your post or a reply to your post, and not have to ask and re-ask the
same questions here...)
Hope this helps, and good luck with your cutting board,
Andy
To be safe, you should probably use food-grade mineral oil. If you
have any feed stores or tack shops in your area (for livestock), you
can usually pick up food-grade mineral oil, as it's often fed to
horses. I'm sure there are plenty of human-food places where you could
get it too, but I don't think they have it at the grocery store. It's
about $3 for a gallon of it at Tractor Supply.
The advantage of mineral oil over nut oil, olive oil, etc. is that it
doesn't go rancid. The others do. It's true that oil can eventually
absorb odors, but untreated wood does so much more readily.
Oil darkens the wood and gives it that "wet" look, about like it would
look if you took a piece of plain wood and rubbed it with a wet sponge.
It gets abosbed by the wood a lot in the beginning and tends to
evaporate eventually, so you'll have to reapply coats several times
fairly frequently at first and occasionally for ever. It takes all of
30 seconds to apply the oil with a paper towel.
As far as the end grain thing goes, a true butcher-block surface is
comprised of a whole bunch of wood pieces standing on end and glued
together side-by-side. The big advantage of this is that if you
inadvertently cut into the wood with a knife, it won't really show and
it tends to "heal" itself as the grain re-swells. One disadvantage is
that the much more porous surface tends to absorb odors, etc. much more
readily than wood oriented so that you're cutting on side-grain (like a
typical table-top). That's a big reason why extremely tight-grained
woods like hard maple are usually used for butcher blocks, rather than
oak or ash or other large-pored species.
Cutting boards (as opposed to butcher-blocks) are often built with the
grain oriented sideways. This is certainly easier to build and doesn't
suffer as badly from the absorbed-odors problem, but it will tend to
show the knife-marks more. Personally, I don't think this is a big
deal; it's a cutting board after all. Besides, you can resand the
surface and apply another coat of mineral oil any time you want.
As far as the x-no-archive flag goes, people just don't like to feel
like they're wasting their time. It's not that your questions aren't
valid or that the people here aren't helpful or even downright
friendly. It's just MUCH more worthwhile to take the time to answer a
question when you know that the thread will be there forever for the
world to read so that the same questions don't pop up over and over.
The spirit of the Usenet is such that it's supposed to be a permanent
record of these discussions. Using it like a chat room is against the
grain of this forum (no pun intended), and it tends to piss people off.
Btw, if you suspect you have ADD, I would think you of all people would
want to have a record of the questions you've asked and answers you've
received. I don't think I have it, but I have to admit that I've
searched the archives of this group in the past and found the perfect
thread to answer my question, only to realize that it was ME who
initiated the thread before asking about the same damned question. I
felt like an idiot; I was just glad I had searched the archives and not
just blindly posted the question. How embarassing would that be?
Josh
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
> cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
> pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
>
> Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
> made. You keep saying end grain up right?
>
> Also, please refrain from smart remarks. Every question I ask is
> legitamate. Why do you not yell at the guy who keeps posting about the
> number of people dieing in Iraq?
>
> I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
> free country read someone elses post. I cant understand why it bothers
> anyone. I put it on there on all my posts, even in other groups.
>
> As far as asking the same question. If I have doen that i am sorry, I
> am forgetful and may have ADD. (I have been on medicine before). I have
> alot going on in my life with family and work. Again, if you dont like
> reading them then dont.
>
> I really thought this group was for helping people. After all the crap
> I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
> into it.
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Frank Boettcher wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>> Bacteria still think
> >>>it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
> >>>still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface. A saving grace
> >>>is that the knives don't dull as quickly. On balance, I'd prefer to
> >>>consider health over sharpening.
> >>
> >>... you need to keep either type of board at the same level of cleanliness.
> >>
> >
> > True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
> > across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
> > bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
> > plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
> > bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
> > to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
> > mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
> > choice. A bit of trivia.
> >
> > Frank
> >
>
> I don't believe that for a minute. It really
> makes no sense. I would bet the study is deeply
> flawed.
>
> I wonder why anyone would consider a wood cutting
> board, except for looks. Glass and plastic
> (especially the self healing plastic) cutting
> boards are preferable for any number of reasons.
> You need to wipe the board with Clorox or
> similar from time to time to sterilize the board.
> And you certainly want to use separate boards or
> separate sides for raw meat and vegetables that
> aren't cooked.
>
> A plastic board set into wood and easily removable
> for washing makes the most sense. For pure
> sanitary purpose a glass board would be selected
> but it would be a little rougher on knives.
The wood/plastic thing often causes disbelief, but it's well documented
in numerous studies. This page
http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm
has this to say: "Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the
wood surfaces are found alive inside the wood for some time after
application, they evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die.
They can be detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by
forcing water completely through from one surface to the other. If a
sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or
wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more
bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used
wood surface."
Vinegar is also a very effective sanitizing agent for a cutting board.
It's a common item in a kitchen and therefore more likely to be used
more often.
R
George wrote:
> Mineral oil is not food. It's indigestible. Stuff sold as laxitive is USP
> "pharmaceutical" grade.
No kidding, George. That's why I didn't say "food". I said
"food-grade". DOGS for it and you'll find a thousand different sources
for it. Food-grade means that it can be used to lubricate machinery
which will come in contact with food. It's often fed to horses
precisely because it's non-digestible and, therefore, works well to
lubricate their GI tracts to lessen the risk of an impaction collic.
>
> >
> > The advantage of mineral oil over nut oil, olive oil, etc. is that it
> > doesn't go rancid. The others do. It's true that oil can eventually
> > absorb odors, but untreated wood does so much more readily.
> >
>
> Absolutely incorrect on both counts. Rancidity is incomplete oxidation.
> Keep your board open to fresh air instead of confining it or covering it,
> and it'll be great.
Rancidity is NOT incomplete oxidation. Rancidity is the presense of
acids like acetic, butyric, isovaleric, etc. which happen to be
breakdown byproducts of many foods and vegetable-derived oils.
Complete oxidation is one way to eliminate these acids, but to use your
own words, it is "absolutely incorrect" to say that rancidity is
defined as incomplete oxidation. That's like defining dirt as not
enough soap.
That being said, I agree 100% that keeping your board open to fresh air
would more quickly oxidize any rancid food particles or oils (either
from the food or as a result of oil you applied to the board) and
prohibit growth of stinky anaerobic bacteria. That's the main reason
why I don't oil my own cutting boards either. However, I still believe
that an oiled board will be less likely to absorb food particles (not
molecules) which are often suspended (not dissolved) in water. The
particles will get dragged into the pores as the water diffuses in.
They won't be chemically bound there or anything, just somewhat
difficult to remove unless you scrub really well. Oiling the board
isn't going to prevent this from happening, but it will slow it down
significantly. An unoiled board will absorb onion juice a lot faster
than an oiled one. Hence I said that an unoiled board will absorb
odors much more readily; I failed to mention that the unoiled board
would be rid of those odors much, much more quickly.
>
> Oil doesn't "eventually" absorb odors, which, where food is concerned, are
> normally organic non-polar molecules. They dissolve readily in oil, not in
> water.
Give me a break; I was answering a question for Stryped, for crying out
loud. Did you actually expect me to talk about dissolution in
non-polar solvents? Of course those molecules dissolve rapidly in oil,
but it generally takes a while for enough to be dissolved that it is
readily apparent to the average person smelling it - not because it
dissolves slowly - just because the average person doesn't chop enough
smelly food at one time to saturate it. Oiled boards I've had in the
past tend to get stinkier and stinkier over the coarse of months.
Hence, I "eventually" switched to nonoiled boards.
> Ever notice that all the domestic stinkbombs they sell are based on oil or
> wax?
I was under the impression that stinkbombs are usually based on either
hydrogen sulfide or some sort of mercaptan (e.g. methyl mercaptan). As
far as I know, H2S and most mercaptans are both oil- and water-soluble.
By the way, as I mentioned above, I DON'T oil my cutting boards. I
agree with you that they smell better in the long run when they're not
oiled. I was merely answering Stryped's question given that he was
already planning on oiling the board. Mineral oil may still dissolve
(and prevent oxidation of) rancidity acids, but its presence will not
CREATE any of those acids. Most vegetable- and nut-derived oils will.
Smell notwithstanding, an unoiled board will develop cracks and checks
much sooner than an oiled one, and people often prefer the look of an
oiled board. Personally, I prefer practicality, smell, and hygiene to
good looks and longevity.
> Oh, I don't know... think about:
>
> lactose + Oxy <=> CO2 + H20
> lactose + Oxy <=> lactic acid
>
> One's a complete oxidation, the other is not, but results in a
> fermentation product.
>
> "Rancid" food is usually characterized by lots of acidic degradation
> products like you say, but which all arise from the partial oxidation of
> the chemicals common to foods. They aren't "byproducts" so much as
> stable intermediates in the oxidation process.
>
> er
> --
I was thinking of incomplete oxidation as not oxidizing all the acids.
You and George are saying incomplete oxidation of food = stable (and
stinky) intermediate state.
Makes sense.
Sorry, George.
stryped wrote:
>
>
> I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
> free country read someone elses post. I cant understand why it bothers
> anyone. I put it on there on all my posts, even in other groups.
'I want to' isn't particvularly informative.
People who object have given actual reasons for their objections.
Do you have a reason to use x-noarchive?
>
> As far as asking the same question. If I have doen that i am sorry, I
> am forgetful and may have ADD. (I have been on medicine before). I have
> alot going on in my life with family and work. Again, if you dont like
> reading them then dont.
What if _they_ want to? Have you considered that?
--
FF
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Frank Boettcher wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>> Bacteria still think
> >>>it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
> >>>still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface. A saving grace
> >>>is that the knives don't dull as quickly. On balance, I'd prefer to
> >>>consider health over sharpening.
> >>
> >>... you need to keep either type of board at the same level of cleanliness.
> >>
> >
> > True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
> > across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
> > bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
> > plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
> > bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
> > to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
> > mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
> > choice. A bit of trivia.
...
>
> I don't believe that for a minute. It really
> makes no sense. I would bet the study is deeply
> flawed.
I would bet if you read it, you won't be able to find such a flaw
but if you do, please let us know.
> Glass and plastic
> (especially the self healing plastic) cutting
> boards are preferable for any number of reasons.
> You need to wipe the board with Clorox or
> similar from time to time to sterilize the board.
I think the self-healing plastic types would be
especially hard to disinfect.
This leads us to a discussion of why wood is preferred
over plastic. Wiping the plastic board with
Clorox was shown to be largley ineffective because
the bacteria hide in the knife cuts where the Clorox
does not penetrate.
Exactly what happens to bacteria on a wood board
remains a mystery. What is observed is that samolella
bacteria were not recoverable forma wood board an
hour after contamination but were recovereable from
an UHMPE board several hours after it had been wiped
down with Clorox.
Surprised the hell out of me.
> And you certainly want to use separate boards or
> separate sides for raw meat and vegetables that
> aren't cooked.
Agreed.
>
> A plastic board set into wood and easily removable
> for washing makes the most sense.
No, see above.
> For pure
> sanitary purpose a glass board would be selected
> but it would be a little rougher on knives.
I would think so. But unless it has been tested
I'll hold off on reaching a conclusion. After all,
I've been wrong before, like when I thought plastic
would be more sanitary than wood.
--
FF
Enoch Root wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> ...
> >
> > Exactly what happens to bacteria on a wood board
> > remains a mystery. What is observed is that samolella
> > bacteria were not recoverable forma wood board an
> > hour after contamination but were recovereable from
> > an UHMPE board several hours after it had been wiped
> > down with Clorox.
>
> What I want to know is are they keeping the wooden boards oiled. :)
As I recall, No.
--
FF
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Glh%[email protected]...
> Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
>> across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
>> bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
>> plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
>> bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
>> to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
>> mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
>> choice. A bit of trivia.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>
> I don't believe that for a minute. It really makes no sense. I would bet
> the study is deeply flawed.
Franks right........I was a cleaning contractor for over 25years and it is
well known and accepted that wood is less hospitable to germs than
plastic.....restaurants commonly use wood cutting boards and wood
counters...obviously they still must be cleaned , bleached etc...... it is
still a wise practice with any cutting board to have separate boards for
veggies and raw meats. Rod
In article <[email protected]>,
stryped <[email protected]> wrote:
> I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
> free country read someone elses post.
1- If you don't want people responding to you stop posting in a public
newsgroup. *You* don't get a say in who replies to your posts. Suck it
up.
2 - "This" is not a free country. "This" is USENET, a world-wide,
distributed, discussion mechanism that (mostly) runs over "the
Internet".
"Guess who" wrote in message
> I don't, for several reasons. Although it is "traditional", and
> although the surface is softer, it is easier to split being so, and a
> split is a split. "Healing" is an illusion.
Actually, end grain is generally harder, more durable and longer lasting in
a cutting board than edge grain boards, and much more resistant to cutting
... one of the time tested reasons for doing it that way.
> Bacteria still think
> it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
> still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface. A saving grace
> is that the knives don't dull as quickly. On balance, I'd prefer to
> consider health over sharpening.
... you need to keep either type of board at the same level of cleanliness.
> There are other reasons, some aesthetic. One thing about an advancing
> species is that we tend to outpace "tradition". Back then, they had
> much less knowledge or care about possible bacteria, except that,
> post-Pasteur, a good deal of work went into cleaning a top after a
> day's work. "Tradition" is just a selling point to jack up the price
> in yuppieville. They'd have had a bit less cleaning concern if not
> using end-grain.
LOL ... looking around today, one can more safely say that an ill educated
species ignores the reasons behind "tradition" in favor of a smug delusion
that they know what's best based on illogical application of psuedo-science.
;)
> Nope. I want edge, or face grain.
However, it's a pretty good bet that you're not a professional chef ... who
will almost always prefer end grain cutting boards.
While either will work - for a while - that end grain cutting boards have
stood the test of time, and a good one is generally highly prized, is
inarguable. Granted they are seen less and less because they are harder to
make and more expensive ... a disadvantage in today's instant gratification,
price point culture, more so than any "health" reasons in a well kept
kitchen.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
> cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
> pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
>
> Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
> made. You keep saying end grain up right?
>
Chopping board, certainly end grain. That way the wounds close themselves
pretty well. Thickness counts.
For the rest, makes no difference. Cutting boards are for using up scraps,
anyway, they're not fine woodworking.
As to mineral oil, it's indigestible, that's why it gives you the runs. But
it's always there to pick up oil-soluble scents and retain oil-soluble
material unless you wash it away. Thus the question, why bother? Might
want to use a curing oil like a nut oil or some "Danish" oil to help it shed
water, but once again, you're only going to chop it up.
Make one for food to be cooked, different size/shape/pattern for food to be
eaten raw, and don't mix.
"Josh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To be safe, you should probably use food-grade mineral oil.
Mineral oil is not food. It's indigestible. Stuff sold as laxitive is USP
"pharmaceutical" grade.
>
> The advantage of mineral oil over nut oil, olive oil, etc. is that it
> doesn't go rancid. The others do. It's true that oil can eventually
> absorb odors, but untreated wood does so much more readily.
>
Absolutely incorrect on both counts. Rancidity is incomplete oxidation.
Keep your board open to fresh air instead of confining it or covering it,
and it'll be great.
Oil doesn't "eventually" absorb odors, which, where food is concerned, are
normally organic non-polar molecules. They dissolve readily in oil, not in
water. That's why the board still smells even after you wipe it. If it
didn't have the oil to protect it from dispersing rapidly into the air or
from being mechanically rinsed away, different matter. Sort of like
bacterial cell walls, which have the hydrophobic (lypophilic) side out, and
stay a long time in oil when a good submersion in water would lyse the cell.
Ever notice that all the domestic stinkbombs they sell are based on oil or
wax?
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Guess who" wrote in message
>
>> I don't, for several reasons. Although it is "traditional", and
>> although the surface is softer, it is easier to split being so, and a
>> split is a split. "Healing" is an illusion.
>
>Actually, end grain is generally harder, more durable and longer lasting in
>a cutting board than edge grain boards, and much more resistant to cutting
>... one of the time tested reasons for doing it that way.
I admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong, and never too old to learn.
George wrote:
> "Josh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>To be safe, you should probably use food-grade mineral oil.
>
>
> Mineral oil is not food. It's indigestible. Stuff sold as laxitive is USP
> "pharmaceutical" grade.
>
>
>>The advantage of mineral oil over nut oil, olive oil, etc. is that it
>>doesn't go rancid. The others do. It's true that oil can eventually
>>absorb odors, but untreated wood does so much more readily.
>>
>
>
> Absolutely incorrect on both counts. Rancidity is incomplete oxidation.
> Keep your board open to fresh air instead of confining it or covering it,
> and it'll be great.
>
> Oil doesn't "eventually" absorb odors, which, where food is concerned, are
> normally organic non-polar molecules. They dissolve readily in oil, not in
> water. That's why the board still smells even after you wipe it. If it
> didn't have the oil to protect it from dispersing rapidly into the air or
> from being mechanically rinsed away, different matter. Sort of like
> bacterial cell walls, which have the hydrophobic (lypophilic) side out, and
> stay a long time in oil when a good submersion in water would lyse the cell.
Hmm, I'm not arguing against oil retaining odors, but cell walls of both
eukaryotes and prokaryotes have a phospholipid bilayer, wherein the
hydrophobic portion of the phospholipids of each layer are oriented
toward one another, and the hydrophilic portion out to either the cell
interior or the cell exterior (depending upon which layer of the bilayer
you are referring to.)
In addition to this, some bacteria have a "cell wall", a sort of
clathrate structure, that prevents lysis by exerting pressure against a
cell wall swollen by movement of water into the cell. The growth and
division of some bacteria is prevented by interfering with the synthesis
of that wall by the presense of penicillin, which acts, IIRC, as a
"suicide inhibitor" in the process. This cell wall (and the membrane)
is usually also decorated with many chains of polar and charged sugars
and proteins, also water loving.
Exposure to detergents, which superficially resemble phospholipids, will
wreak havoc with the integrity of the membrane and assist lysis, unless
it is well shielded by the cell wall.
A bacterium may also encyst if it is in a nutrient poor environment.
This would also prevent lysis.
Submerging something in oil is a very good way to prevent any
proliferation of aerobic bacteria, and those already there will
eventually die.
As for vegetable oils, I think they'll go rancid because they usually
have some level of dehydrogenation, and are the acids of fats. A
carbon-carbon double bond is an attractive target for water, oxygen,
whatever, and the carboxyl group on the end is labile, as well.
er
--
email not valid
[email protected] wrote:
> This leads us to a discussion of why wood is preferred
> over plastic. Wiping the plastic board with
> Clorox was shown to be largley ineffective because
> the bacteria hide in the knife cuts where the Clorox
> does not penetrate.
>
> Exactly what happens to bacteria on a wood board
> remains a mystery. What is observed is that samolella
> bacteria were not recoverable forma wood board an
> hour after contamination but were recovereable from
> an UHMPE board several hours after it had been wiped
> down with Clorox.
What I want to know is are they keeping the wooden boards oiled. :)
Is oiling the board going to reduce the wood's antibacterial properties?
Or is the wood they are using for the study oiled, and the properties
observed already account for it?
Because right now, it looks like using oil is for the aesthetics and
longevity of the wood. And I can't tell if that would affect the results.
er
--
email not valid
On 12 Apr 2006 11:16:57 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I really thought this group was for helping people. After all the crap
>I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
>into it.
After reading this crap, I don't want to respond. Learn some basic
manners, then try again. If you were my neighbour wanting to borrow
the ladder, and came on to me like that, you'd be told to buy your own
damned ladder
However:
1. The oil thing is right. If you want to know what it looks like,
buy a small bottle at the local pharmacy and apply a little to some
sanded wood. The cost is negligible to try a little experimentation,
and you learn much more by doing it yourself, and perhaps making
mistakes along the way.
2. Obviously you don't want the end grain, which is FAR more
moisture-absorbent than the long grain, to be the top surface.
It's common sense.
Now, any more advice and you have to pay me.
"Guess who" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Guess who" wrote in message
>>
>>> I don't, for several reasons. Although it is "traditional", and
>>> although the surface is softer, it is easier to split being so, and a
>>> split is a split. "Healing" is an illusion.
>>
>>Actually, end grain is generally harder, more durable and longer lasting
>>in
>>a cutting board than edge grain boards, and much more resistant to cutting
>>... one of the time tested reasons for doing it that way.
>
> I admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong, and never too old to learn.
>
I'll also admit that I have built several butcher blocks with the edge grain
face up but my personal butcher block is end grain up. Absolutely not too
old to learn.
Just a comment about Butcher Blocks. A little bit of memory.
When I was a young man at 16, about 56 years ago, I worked in a grocery
store which also had a meat counter. There was NO finish put on it, but
Every day, at the end of the day when closing, the Butcher would use a
very stiff wire brush to work down the surface, scraping it away with
the brush until all the blood was gone, then we would sanitize both the
butcher block and all of the enclosed meat counter with Ammonia. Boy did
that ever clean up the blood. Now that was Pure Ammonia, NOT Sudsy
Ammonia that grocery stores sell today.
Back then, you never saw the top of any butcher block that had a flat
surface on the top, and that was because of the way that it was cleaned,
the top soon became waive. Now those were true butcher blocks, about 3
feet square and 2 to 2 1/2 feet thick, end grain up, supported on heavy
4 X 4 legs at each corner. I have no idea how much they weighed, but I
never saw one moved while they were working on it. I would take it that
the end grain actually made it easier to clean, and that is why they
made them that way.
Jack
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
> cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
> pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
>
> Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
> made. You keep saying end grain up right?
>
SNIP
"Frank Boettcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
> True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
> across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
> bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
> plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
> bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
> to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
> mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
> choice. A bit of trivia.
Exactly as I have learned also.
Frank Boettcher wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>> Bacteria still think
>>>it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
>>>still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface. A saving grace
>>>is that the knives don't dull as quickly. On balance, I'd prefer to
>>>consider health over sharpening.
>>
>>... you need to keep either type of board at the same level of cleanliness.
>>
>
> True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
> across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
> bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
> plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
> bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
> to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
> mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
> choice. A bit of trivia.
>
> Frank
>
I don't believe that for a minute. It really
makes no sense. I would bet the study is deeply
flawed.
I wonder why anyone would consider a wood cutting
board, except for looks. Glass and plastic
(especially the self healing plastic) cutting
boards are preferable for any number of reasons.
You need to wipe the board with Clorox or
similar from time to time to sterilize the board.
And you certainly want to use separate boards or
separate sides for raw meat and vegetables that
aren't cooked.
A plastic board set into wood and easily removable
for washing makes the most sense. For pure
sanitary purpose a glass board would be selected
but it would be a little rougher on knives.
In article <[email protected]>, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
>cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
>pharmacy?
Yep, same stuff.
>What does it make the wood look like?
Buy some, apply it, and find out. Sheesh/
>
>Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
>made. You keep saying end grain up right?
That's most common. Next most common is edge-grain up. Why not actually look
at a few cutting boards and see for yourself?
>Also, please refrain from smart remarks. Every question I ask is
>legitamate.
Not true at all. Far too often, you ask questions that you could answer on
your own with only a minimal effort at experimentation or observation. Example
above: what does [mineral oil] make the wood look like?
Likewise, you frequently ask the same questions over and over. Why? Hoping for
a different answer?
>Why do you not yell at the guy who keeps posting about the
>number of people dieing in Iraq?
Lots of people have been yelling at him. This is unfortunate, because he
doesn't care, and the complaints won't change his behavior. Some of us still
have hopes that you may change yours.
>
>I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
>free country read someone elses post. I cant understand why it bothers
>anyone. I put it on there on all my posts, even in other groups.
Here's why it bothers people: this group is, as you suggest below, for helping
people (among other purposes). That purpose is defeated, or at least
diminished, when posters deliberately prevent their posts from being archived.
On top of that, it's just plain pointless: even if your original post is not
archived, if just one person quotes it in response... guess what happens.
>As far as asking the same question. If I have doen that i am sorry, I
>am forgetful and may have ADD. (I have been on medicine before).
I have ADD, too, but I manage to cope with it. Perhaps you need to try a
different medication. Caffeine works surprisingly well for many people. If you
don't already drink coffee, give it a try; if you do, try more.
>I have alot going on in my life with family and work.
Perhaps the time spent on woodworking (and Usenet posting) would be more
productively spent in resolving those family and work issues.
Just a suggestion.
>Again, if you dont like
>reading them then dont.
Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
If nobody reads your posts, then you'll not receive answers to your questions
either.
>I really thought this group was for helping people.
The kind of help you're looking for is the kind of help that a lot of
third-graders look for with their homework: to have their parents do it for
them.
>After all the crap
>I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
>into it.
The "crap" you have received is uniformly and universally in response to your
failure to make even the slightest attempt to find out anything on your own.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <drB%[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <Glh%[email protected]>, "George E.
> Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I wonder why anyone would consider a wood cutting
>>>board, except for looks. Glass and plastic
>>>(especially the self healing plastic) cutting
>>>boards are preferable for any number of reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Glass for a cutting board is insane, unless you don't care about the edges on
>> your knives.
>>
>
>Interesting that you deleted this part of my comment.
>
> "A plastic board set into wood and easily
>removable for washing makes the most sense. For
>pure sanitary purpose a glass board would be
>selected but it would be a little rougher on knives."
"A little rougher", hell. It'll ruin the edge. Only an idiot would use (or
suggest using) a glass cutting board.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Any "food grade" oil works. Best if it's not a peanut oil because they
> yellow and get sticky. I regularly use walnut, both for my boards and
> to cook with. Great flavor!
>
I routinely use virgin olive oil for wooden food utensils. That's another oil
that does not get sticky/resinous with age. For the first coat or two I usually
thin the olive oil with vegetable turps to help it travel into the grain.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Question for everyone...
>
> I've got an old maple cutting board about 16" x 28" that is side cut
> strips (1-34" square). It has finally started separating, but the wood
> is solid. I'd like to rip the 16" lengths apart and re-cut them into
> 1-1/2" blocks to make into two end-grain cutting boards.
>
> What's the best way to cut and make these pieces square?
>
> I'm limited on tools, so all suggestions appreciated.
>
> `Casper
I would use two tools for this: a thicknesser and a radial arm saw.
Put the old chopping boards through a thicknesser until both top and bottom are
clean (smooth)and parallel - that's your jointing done.
Get a radial arm saw set up as near to perfect as you can, clamp a stop to the
fence that will determine the future thickness of the board. You can just feed
the old board in from one side and cut strips off which you can turn through 90
degrees and glue back together.
If you haven't the tools, try a local joiner or the school woodwork shop
(nightclasses?). This is by far the best, as well as easiest method i.m.o.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <Glh%[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I wonder why anyone would consider a wood cutting
>board, except for looks. Glass and plastic
>(especially the self healing plastic) cutting
>boards are preferable for any number of reasons.
Glass for a cutting board is insane, unless you don't care about the edges on
your knives.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Josh wrote:
> George wrote:
[attribution missing, here...]
>>>The advantage of mineral oil over nut oil, olive oil, etc. is that it
>>>doesn't go rancid. The others do. It's true that oil can eventually
>>>absorb odors, but untreated wood does so much more readily.
>>>
>>
>>Absolutely incorrect on both counts. Rancidity is incomplete oxidation.
>>Keep your board open to fresh air instead of confining it or covering it,
>>and it'll be great.
>
>
> Rancidity is NOT incomplete oxidation. Rancidity is the presense of
> acids like acetic, butyric, isovaleric, etc. which happen to be
> breakdown byproducts of many foods and vegetable-derived oils.
Oh, I don't know... think about:
lactose + Oxy <=> CO2 + H20
lactose + Oxy <=> lactic acid
One's a complete oxidation, the other is not, but results in a
fermentation product.
"Rancid" food is usually characterized by lots of acidic degradation
products like you say, but which all arise from the partial oxidation of
the chemicals common to foods. They aren't "byproducts" so much as
stable intermediates in the oxidation process.
er
--
email not valid
Josh wrote:
> Btw, if you suspect you have ADD, I would think you of all people
> would want to have a record of the questions you've asked and answers
> you've received. I don't think I have it, but I have to admit that
> I've searched the archives of this group in the past and found the
> perfect thread to answer my question, only to realize that it was ME
> who initiated the thread before asking about the same damned
> question. I felt like an idiot; I was just glad I had searched the
> archives and not just blindly posted the question. How embarassing
> would that be?
He should be able to tell you, he's done it a bunch of times.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
> cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
> pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
Yes, mineral oil or baby oil, both are non-toxic. I use baby oil (the
unscented type) for finishing many of the projects I build.
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:49:46 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Guess who" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 12 Apr 2006 11:16:57 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> 2. Obviously you don't want the end grain, which is FAR more
>> moisture-absorbent than the long grain, to be the top surface.
>
>
>Actually you DO want end grain. The cuts are self healing when the knife
>blade cuts into the surface. Better butcher blocks and cutting boards are
>built this way. If you oil the surface prior to usage moisture will be
>repelled by the oil.
I don't, for several reasons. Although it is "traditional", and
although the surface is softer, it is easier to split being so, and a
split is a split. "Healing" is an illusion. Bacteria still think
it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface. A saving grace
is that the knives don't dull as quickly. On balance, I'd prefer to
consider health over sharpening.
There are other reasons, some aesthetic. One thing about an advancing
species is that we tend to outpace "tradition". Back then, they had
much less knowledge or care about possible bacteria, except that,
post-Pasteur, a good deal of work went into cleaning a top after a
day's work. "Tradition" is just a selling point to jack up the price
in yuppieville. They'd have had a bit less cleaning concern if not
using end-grain.
Nope. I want edge, or face grain.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <Glh%[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I wonder why anyone would consider a wood cutting
>>board, except for looks. Glass and plastic
>>(especially the self healing plastic) cutting
>>boards are preferable for any number of reasons.
>
>
>
> Glass for a cutting board is insane, unless you don't care about the edges on
> your knives.
>
Interesting that you deleted this part of my comment.
"A plastic board set into wood and easily
removable for washing makes the most sense. For
pure sanitary purpose a glass board would be
selected but it would be a little rougher on knives."
>Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
>made. You keep saying end grain up right?
The end of a board is made up of open pores that work like a bunch of
straws. End grain up is better for knife blades. They don't dull as
quickly.
Neat stuff...
http://www.alladd.com/endgraincuttingboardthumbs.htm
Question for everyone...
I've got an old maple cutting board about 16" x 28" that is side cut
strips (1-34" square). It has finally started separating, but the wood
is solid. I'd like to rip the 16" lengths apart and re-cut them into
1-1/2" blocks to make into two end-grain cutting boards.
What's the best way to cut and make these pieces square?
I'm limited on tools, so all suggestions appreciated.
`Casper
On 12 Apr 2006 11:16:57 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I really thought this group was for helping people. After all the crap
>I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
>into it.
You get the responses you do because there's no indication that you
have actually attempted to get into it. If you did, you might be able
to answer some of your own questions.
--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/
On 12 Apr 2006 11:16:57 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
>cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
>pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
Yes. There are other places to buy mineral oil, but the mineral oil
at the pharmacy is probably more pure than other sources. Mineral oil
won't go rancid like many other oils. The oil will darken the wood a
little. It is good to test any finish on a scrap piece first.
>
>Also I am havin gtrouble understanding how most cutting boards are
>made. You keep saying end grain up right?
Not really. You can make a cutting board any way you wish. There are
a few kinds of wood to avoid. I read that beech is a good choice.
I've made cutting boards from cherry, oak, and maple. I have even
used pine, although this wood is generally too soft.
>
>Also, please refrain from smart remarks. Every question I ask is
>legitamate. Why do you not yell at the guy who keeps posting about the
>number of people dieing in Iraq?
>
>I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
>free country read someone elses post. I cant understand why it bothers
>anyone. I put it on there on all my posts, even in other groups.
>
>As far as asking the same question. If I have doen that i am sorry, I
>am forgetful and may have ADD. (I have been on medicine before). I have
>alot going on in my life with family and work. Again, if you dont like
>reading them then dont.
>
>I really thought this group was for helping people. After all the crap
>I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
>into it.
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:25:15 GMT, Casper <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've got an old maple cutting board about 16" x 28" that is side cut
>strips (1-34" square). It has finally started separating, but the wood
>is solid. I'd like to rip the 16" lengths apart and re-cut them into
>1-1/2" blocks to make into two end-grain cutting boards.
>
>What's the best way to cut and make these pieces square?
>
>I'm limited on tools, so all suggestions appreciated.
You have a saw? :)
There will be many options. I'd possibly try the following:
1. Since you are cutting it up, no harm in making a first cut between
two center pieces [to allow use of 12" planer ...you have a planer?]
I sometimes tack a 1" straight edge [1/4" precut hardboard strip will
do] with a glue gun. That is a guide along the fence, on top of the
wood of course, and easily removed after the cut.
2. Run the two pieces through the planer to get at least top/bottom
level and parallel. You might have to shim and tack it to a bit of
MDF [glue gun again] to get the first surface. Remove for the last
piece, of course.
3. Back to the TS, and make lengthwise cuts. What I've done is to cut
carefully enough to not have blade shimmer make a mess if the cut is
tough and stressed, then recut [later] taking off just a hair ...no
stress, and an even cut.
etc.... Worked for me repairing stuff for friends and family.
"stryped" wrote in message
>
> In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
> cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
> pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
Behlen makes a salad bowl oil finish which will work quite well for that
purpose ... but you can also readily do without.
http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/SaladBowl.html
Definitely use _end_ grain as the cutting surface, not the face. That way it
will be like chopping into a broom from the end, instead of across.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/13/05
On 4/12/2006 2:16 PM stryped mumbled something about the following:
> x-no-archive:yes
It's now archived, even tho you didn't want it archived.
> Also, please refrain from smart remarks. Every question I ask is
> legitamate. Why do you not yell at the guy who keeps posting about the
> number of people dieing in Iraq?
Don't tell me what to do, you don't control me. I'll make whatever
remarks I want to make.
> I put the x-no-archive because I want to. If you dont like it it is a
> free country read someone elses post. I cant understand why it bothers
> anyone. I put it on there on all my posts, even in other groups.
You put the x-no-archive in there because you don't want it archived,
but we make sure it's archived for you.
> As far as asking the same question. If I have doen that i am sorry, I
> am forgetful and may have ADD. (I have been on medicine before). I have
> alot going on in my life with family and work. Again, if you dont like
> reading them then dont.
Then learn to use google and reread what was told you the last time
instead of continuing to look like a fool.
> I really thought this group was for helping people. After all the crap
> I have gotten in responses, I almost wish I had never attempted to get
> into it.
People have a tendency to help those who will help themselves, but you
refuse to help yourself, which is why you get all the crap, and will
continue to get crap.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
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Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
>In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
>cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
>pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
Any "food grade" oil works. Best if it's not a peanut oil because they
yellow and get sticky. I regularly use walnut, both for my boards and
to cook with. Great flavor!
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:57:10 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
>> across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
>> bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
>> plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
>> bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
>> to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
>> mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
>> choice. A bit of trivia.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>
>I don't believe that for a minute. It really
>makes no sense. I would bet the study is deeply
>flawed.
This might be informative:
http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Cutboard.html
On 12 Apr 2006 11:16:57 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>In my book it says mineral oil is acceptable to use as a finish on a
>cutting board. Is this regular mineral oil like you buy in the
>pharmacy? What does it make the wood look like?
>
Yes it is acceptable. It is non toxic and will not turn rancid like
some vegetable oils will.
I recently refinished a wood island countertop and used walnut oil
until it wouldn't accept any more then finished with a coat of walnut
oil mixed with beeswax. Gave it a nice golden glow.
Frank
"Guess who" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 12 Apr 2006 11:16:57 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 2. Obviously you don't want the end grain, which is FAR more
> moisture-absorbent than the long grain, to be the top surface.
Actually you DO want end grain. The cuts are self healing when the knife
blade cuts into the surface. Better butcher blocks and cutting boards are
built this way. If you oil the surface prior to usage moisture will be
repelled by the oil.
>
> It's common sense.
?
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bacteria still think
>> it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
>> still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface. A saving grace
>> is that the knives don't dull as quickly. On balance, I'd prefer to
>> consider health over sharpening.
>
>... you need to keep either type of board at the same level of cleanliness.
>
True, but when I was researching this a couple of months ago I ran
across a study (university of Wisconsin, I think) that compared
bacteria retention on different types of cutting boards. Wood beat
plastic, solid surface, and all other surfaces. It seems the little
bugs don't like something in the wood where they are perfectly happy
to continue to hang out on the other surfaces. Don't think it
mattered whether it was end grain or edge, so function dictactes that
choice. A bit of trivia.
Frank
"Guess who" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>
> I don't, for several reasons. Although it is "traditional", and
> although the surface is softer, it is easier to split being so, and a
> split is a split. "Healing" is an illusion. Bacteria still think
> it's a nice cozy place divide and multiply, and to them the cuts are
> still canyons, the cuts going deeper into the surface.
Actually I have heard time and a gain that wooden cutting boards and
chopping blocks work well because wood does not promote a good environment
for bacterial to grow.