Dial indicator with magnetic base

On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> If a TS is set up properly with a good blade it can produce a smoother
>> edge than the typical jointer.
>>
>> If you go by the rules the jointer is used on only two surfaces, to
>> straighten the edge and flatten the face. The opposite edge is
>> straightened by thee TS. The opposite surface is flattened by a planer.
>
> Thank you for the reminder: That makes perfect sense. It wasn't always
> that way! ; )
>


I can't say. It was not always that way for me until I started buying
quality blades.

I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught using
the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up a an
edge after going through the TS. ;~)

Maybe that was what those hand planes were for. ;~)

On 1/24/2012 3:14 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

>> http://e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table8.jpg
>
> Jeeze, Swingy. Couldn't you have taken care to match board lengths a
> bit better.<silly grinne>

LOL Method to Madness: There's a considerable amount of money tied up in
that table top of 8/4 QSWO.

Therefore the longest board of each sub-component's separate pass
through the planer gets any snipe, and well into the cutoff zone.

:)


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>
> I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught using
> the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up a an edge
> after going through the TS. ;~)

I think some guys were and are unreasonable... I cannot tell you how many
times I've uncovered defects on the first jointed edge or face of rough cut
that led me to joint the opposite edge and/or face so that the defect would
be removed by the thickness planer or saw in final dimensioning... I see it
as a lack of reasonableness in their position on things.

John

On 2/9/2012 7:19 AM, Leon wrote:

> Check the video here at the bottom of the page...I have this tool too
> and it works effortlessly as advertised.
>
> http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/featured/km-1-kerfmaker.html

I'm going to need to see your technique. I used it again just recently
on the current desk project and, for the third time, spent more time
screwing with it than if I had broken out the dado set and gone after it
in the first place.

Ultimately, it works, but not without more fussing then I'm prepared to
spend.

I think my problem is in setting the cutting blade width, and/or when
moving the fence on the TS for the second cut.

I even followed Paul-Marcel's video to a "t" this last time, including
making a couple of his setup blocks:

http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/label/KM-1

The resulting joint is initially always too tight. Do you use any
experienced based fudge factor?

Perhaps I'm being too precise?

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Last update: 4/15/2010
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Jack wrote:
> On 2/21/2012 11:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>
>>> I quit painting cars 40 years ago, but, I spray furniture with both
>>> my tools and my garage "furniture" in there.
>>
>> That just ain't right Jack. Painting ain't really painting if it
>> don't include at least a fender here and there...
>>
> I always enjoyed painting cars but hated the sanding. Feel pretty
> much the same with wood. I heard a super over priced Festering
> sander makes sanding enjoyable... If my damn kid would have bought
> me a festering sander instead of an Ipad, I'd know by now. As it is,
> I'm still not a fan of sanding. I'm not even sure I'm a fan of
> woodwork any more. Still at it, but only because I love my shop, and
> tools, and people keep talking me into making stuff.

I hear you Jack, on the sanding stuff. I am no fan of sanding either. I
used to hate masking more than any other aspect of the task, but now I don't
really mind it as much. Body drapes go a long way to reducing the amount of
masking I used to do, and I don't mind that part much at all now.

As far as the Festering sander goes - perhaps we could get Leon to send his
up this way and we could both try it out for a bit to see if it brings a
certain joy to the task. We could send it back to him once we've given it a
try...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/24/2012 3:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:36:43 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/24/2012 6:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> I gave up teevee 5 years ago. Books are much quieter and are
>>> extremely more educational and fun.
>>
>> And most authors who write woodworking books have been woodworking for
>> more than five or six years ...
>
> ? But not all authors put out good books, nor does it take 5 or 6
> years to write a book, either good or bad.

Sometimes I worry about your ken, C_less?

IOW ... many of today TV/ Internet video woodjockey's have not been
practicing the craft long enough to _KNOW ENOUGH_ to write a good book.

Capice?

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 00:06:48 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>I went to the WoodWorking Shows this weekend. Roland Johnson, from FWW,
>was recommending a tool like in the subject line (none in particular)
>for doing TS set-up. I would like to use it to measure run-out too.
>Thus, I anticipate very occasional use. I saw this one at Grizzly:

Huh? Tablesaw setup? You'd want a DI set up on a miter slot for
that, wouldn't you? Or a height gauge?


>http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G9849
>
>Similar item also listed at Amazon, Lee Valley, Peach Tree WW, and
>several others listed too, including Harbor Freight, but just by looking
>at them, they look like they have come from the same source. Lots of
>reviews say they are very fragile (at the joint) and are easily stripped
>and fall apart.
>
>At least if I buy it at Harbor Freight, I would have to go far to return
>it if it falls apart in 30 days.
>
>Any words of advice on this item here (can you recommend one)?

They all seem to work fine, so grab what's closest. Since they measure
relative distances, the precision is in the dial indicator and they
all can read 0.001" (or 0.01mm) easily enough.

I bought the HF components for $5.99 each locally on sale.
They're more nowadays: http://tinyurl.com/3wvus3t
http://tinyurl.com/3l4pwep

Then there's the DEEluxe version: http://tinyurl.com/7cqhwh5
I'd never seen -that- one before.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:08:58 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Huh? Tablesaw setup? You'd want a DI set up on a miter slot for
>> that, wouldn't you? Or a height gauge?
>
>I think he (Roland Johnson) pushed the indicator in the miter slot
>passed a 90-degree blade to check the horizontal alignment, and passed
>it by a tilted (say 45-degree blade) to check vertical alignment. He
>said most modern blades are near perfectly flat due to modern
>technology. Concerning your comment: Height seems immaterial except
>calibrating the height of the adjustor (or if you're checking vertical
>alignment that way)?

I was including both the "original saw setup" and "setting blade
height for a specific cut, such as a dado or rabbet" concepts.


>I think he had a jig he made out of some acrylic sort of stuff. Maybe
>most any sled would work if there is a place to hold the indicator base.

Yuppers.


>I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it

Most table saw blades will leave a fine gluable line.


>can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
>or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
>#4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
>there making furniture with no power jointer?

Prolly 3/4 of the world and most of our ancestors, Bill.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

On 1/24/2012 10:19 AM, Bill wrote:

> Thank you rpb, that sounds like a good suggestion. Gluing top side down,
> say on level piece of hardboard, might possibly help too. I just "know"
> the wood is not going to cooperate with me on this! ; )

Go to:

http://e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

... and scroll most of the way down the page to the date 3/20-25/04 to
get one idea on how to do an extra wide panel glue-ups.

Note: jointing the edges of couple of 2 x 4's, and attaching them,
jointed side up, to a flat surface; then using the jointed surface of
the 2x 4's to support the glue-up, serves a dual purpose ... in both
helping to keep things flat, and allowing you to alternate clamping
pressure from top and underneath so that all your clamping force is not
across one surface:

http://e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table8.jpg


--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:57:04 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>> If a TS is set up properly with a good blade it can produce a smoother
>>> edge than the typical jointer.
>>>
>>> If you go by the rules the jointer is used on only two surfaces, to
>>> straighten the edge and flatten the face. The opposite edge is
>>> straightened by thee TS. The opposite surface is flattened by a planer.
>>
>> Thank you for the reminder: That makes perfect sense. It wasn't always
>> that way! ; )
>>
>
>
>I can't say. It was not always that way for me until I started buying
>quality blades.
>
>I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught using
>the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up a an
>edge after going through the TS. ;~)
>
>Maybe that was what those hand planes were for. ;~)

No, no, no. Use your Feztool Dremel-like companion tool.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On 01/23/2012 09:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:08:58 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> Huh? Tablesaw setup? You'd want a DI set up on a miter slot for
>>> that, wouldn't you? Or a height gauge?
>>
>> I think he (Roland Johnson) pushed the indicator in the miter slot
>> passed a 90-degree blade to check the horizontal alignment, and passed
>> it by a tilted (say 45-degree blade) to check vertical alignment. He
>> said most modern blades are near perfectly flat due to modern
>> technology. Concerning your comment: Height seems immaterial except
>> calibrating the height of the adjustor (or if you're checking vertical
>> alignment that way)?
>
> I was including both the "original saw setup" and "setting blade
> height for a specific cut, such as a dado or rabbet" concepts.
>
>
>> I think he had a jig he made out of some acrylic sort of stuff. Maybe
>> most any sled would work if there is a place to hold the indicator base.
>
> Yuppers.
>
>
>> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
>
> Most table saw blades will leave a fine gluable line.
>
>
>> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
>> or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
>> #4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>
> Prolly 3/4 of the world and most of our ancestors, Bill.

Prolly ??? ;-)

>
> --
> I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
> my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
> -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807



--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Jan 23, 7:08=A0pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. =A0I think I
> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. =A0 Either I get a jointer
> or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
> #4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). =A0Anyone out
> there making furniture with no power jointer?

Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
as flat a surface.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:44:01 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 1/24/2012 3:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:36:43 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/24/2012 6:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> I gave up teevee 5 years ago. Books are much quieter and are
>>>> extremely more educational and fun.
>>>
>>> And most authors who write woodworking books have been woodworking for
>>> more than five or six years ...
>>
>> ? But not all authors put out good books, nor does it take 5 or 6
>> years to write a book, either good or bad.
>
>Sometimes I worry about your ken, C_less?
>
>IOW ... many of today TV/ Internet video woodjockey's have not been
>practicing the craft long enough to _KNOW ENOUGH_ to write a good book.
>
>Capice?

Had you included a smiley on that first post, I would have caught the
joke. As it was, you appeared to be _praisin'_ them varmints.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

>
> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. =A0I think I
> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better.

Yes a well tuned cabinet saw with the right balde can easily make
clean enough cuts for glue jointing. It takes very gppd technique to
never have small edge outs but it can be done.

When I was doing lots of really big edge glued butcher block tops I
would rip all the maple very carefully. The I would only join the
pieces that showed and edge gaps when getting ready for glue up. I got
pretty good after a while.

Bill wrote:

>
> No one is disputing your last point. I already "invested" in a 12"
> Starrett combination square. I was just thinking through what I need
> to have in order to have my bases covered. Even with my combination
> square, the line I mark is only as good as edge of the board I use for
> reference--so maybe I need a jointer! Of course, I plan to try
> sticking with hand tools for a while. I understand those plastic
> engineer's triangles are pretty accurate--cheap too! : ) I noticed
> Starrett has a $95 8" compass, but I figure I can improvise!

Starrett is for those who want to feel good about themselves Bill. Think
about it - how much more "accurrate" can it be? Over what distance (which
is where inaccuracy really becomes important...)? Cool tools are indeed
neat things, but you can do all of the woodworking that you are going to do
with a $1.98 speed square from the dollar store - with plenty enough
accuracy.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out there making
> furniture with no power jointer?

Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
all.

Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
lumber with my track saw.

Leon wrote:

>
> From Texas all of those NE accents sound the same.

Oh, that's only because we say "You guys..."

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 2/22/2012 7:59 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 6:32 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>> On 2/21/2012 11:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I quit painting cars 40 years ago, but, I spray furniture with both
>>>>> my tools and my garage "furniture" in there.
>>>>
>>>> That just ain't right Jack. Painting ain't really painting if it
>>>> don't include at least a fender here and there...
>>>>
>>> I always enjoyed painting cars but hated the sanding. Feel pretty
>>> much the same with wood. I heard a super over priced Festering
>>> sander makes sanding enjoyable... If my damn kid would have bought
>>> me a festering sander instead of an Ipad, I'd know by now. As it is,
>>> I'm still not a fan of sanding. I'm not even sure I'm a fan of
>>> woodwork any more. Still at it, but only because I love my shop, and
>>> tools, and people keep talking me into making stuff.
>>
>> I hear you Jack, on the sanding stuff. I am no fan of sanding either. I
>> used to hate masking more than any other aspect of the task, but now I
>> don't
>> really mind it as much. Body drapes go a long way to reducing the
>> amount of
>> masking I used to do, and I don't mind that part much at all now.
>>
>> As far as the Festering sander goes - perhaps we could get Leon to
>> send his
>> up this way and we could both try it out for a bit to see if it brings a
>> certain joy to the task. We could send it back to him once we've given
>> it a
>> try...
>>
>
>
> Go to your local store and try one out. Sanding is not fun. But when
> sanding is accomplished much more quickly and with out dust it is not a
> task to hate any more.
>
> PLUS Festool offers many types of sand paper. I recently discovered
> their "Crystal" sand paper, very aggressive and glue does not gum up or
> load the paper at all.
> Yesterday I was sanding 10 face frames front and back after glue up. 6
> joints on each side, 12 per face frame. One piece of Crystal 80 grit
> paper to sand 120 sides at the joints with glue. 2 pieces of 120 grit
> Rubin for both sides of the 10 face frames, 1 piece of 150 grit Rubin,
> and two pieces of 180 grit Rubin for all sides plus inside edges. I hand
> sanded all the corner edges with foam backed Mirka 180 grip paper. 4 hours.
>
> I only got dust when I hand sanded so I finish sanded after hand sanding
> the corners to get rid of the dust.

where does one purchase the aforementioned sandpapers?



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/3/2012 11:35 AM, Bill wrote:

>
>
>> I try to design with 1/16 being the smallest measurement. I would rather
>> the thin steel rules only be in that smallest increment like a tape
>> measure. BUT when working with wood nothing is perfect and a perfect fit
>> might be 8-1/32" when the design called for 8". That is when I don't
>> measure at all for the perfect fit. I would use a utility knife to mark
>> the actual board against the actual opening and cut at those scored
>> marks. Use a sacrificial board on your miter gauge and the kerf slot
>> created on that sacrificial board by the blade as your reference to
>> cut at.
>
> And you get to keep cutting up sacrificial boards until you get it
> "perfect", huh? Sounds good, with power or hand (mitre box) saw!
>

No Nononoooonono nono. ;~)

The sacrificial fence on the TS miter gauge or miter saw will basically
have a zero clearance kerf slot cut in it. You make that cut first.
Then you align your mark on the project wood to which ever side of that
slot is appropriate.

When the slot on the sacrificial fence starts to become a little fuzzy
along the edges, slide the fence down a bit and make a new reference slot.

On 2/22/2012 6:32 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>> On 2/21/2012 11:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>>> I quit painting cars 40 years ago, but, I spray furniture with both
>>>> my tools and my garage "furniture" in there.
>>>
>>> That just ain't right Jack. Painting ain't really painting if it
>>> don't include at least a fender here and there...
>>>
>> I always enjoyed painting cars but hated the sanding. Feel pretty
>> much the same with wood. I heard a super over priced Festering
>> sander makes sanding enjoyable... If my damn kid would have bought
>> me a festering sander instead of an Ipad, I'd know by now. As it is,
>> I'm still not a fan of sanding. I'm not even sure I'm a fan of
>> woodwork any more. Still at it, but only because I love my shop, and
>> tools, and people keep talking me into making stuff.
>
> I hear you Jack, on the sanding stuff. I am no fan of sanding either. I
> used to hate masking more than any other aspect of the task, but now I don't
> really mind it as much. Body drapes go a long way to reducing the amount of
> masking I used to do, and I don't mind that part much at all now.
>
> As far as the Festering sander goes - perhaps we could get Leon to send his
> up this way and we could both try it out for a bit to see if it brings a
> certain joy to the task. We could send it back to him once we've given it a
> try...
>


Go to your local store and try one out. Sanding is not fun. But when
sanding is accomplished much more quickly and with out dust it is not a
task to hate any more.

PLUS Festool offers many types of sand paper. I recently discovered
their "Crystal" sand paper, very aggressive and glue does not gum up or
load the paper at all.
Yesterday I was sanding 10 face frames front and back after glue up. 6
joints on each side, 12 per face frame. One piece of Crystal 80 grit
paper to sand 120 sides at the joints with glue. 2 pieces of 120 grit
Rubin for both sides of the 10 face frames, 1 piece of 150 grit Rubin,
and two pieces of 180 grit Rubin for all sides plus inside edges. I
hand sanded all the corner edges with foam backed Mirka 180 grip paper.
4 hours.

I only got dust when I hand sanded so I finish sanded after hand sanding
the corners to get rid of the dust.

On 2/1/2012 6:10 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> http://www.woodpeck.com/
>>
>> And on sale now!
>>
>> http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html
>>
>> And the Story Stick Pro available in 24 and 48 inch are worth their
>> weight in gold.
>>
>> http://www.woodpeck.com/measuringhome.html
>
> Looks like good stuff! I've heard of them, but that was the first
> time I've seen the Woodpecker web site. I'll investigate more after
> I'm through with my "chores".. Thank you!

Bill Woodcraft also sells a black in color version of the same stuff
with the Pinnacle badge. Some times less expensive and Amazon sells
Pinnacle too.

On 2/22/2012 8:57 PM, Steve Barker wrote:

>>>> Go to your local store and try one out. Sanding is not fun. But when
>>>> sanding is accomplished much more quickly and with out dust it is not a
>>>> task to hate any more.
>>>>
>>>> PLUS Festool offers many types of sand paper. I recently discovered
>>>> their "Crystal" sand paper, very aggressive and glue does not gum up or
>>>> load the paper at all.
>>>> Yesterday I was sanding 10 face frames front and back after glue up. 6
>>>> joints on each side, 12 per face frame. One piece of Crystal 80 grit
>>>> paper to sand 120 sides at the joints with glue. 2 pieces of 120 grit
>>>> Rubin for both sides of the 10 face frames, 1 piece of 150 grit Rubin,
>>>> and two pieces of 180 grit Rubin for all sides plus inside edges. I
>>>> hand
>>>> sanded all the corner edges with foam backed Mirka 180 grip paper. 4
>>>> hours.
>>>>
>>>> I only got dust when I hand sanded so I finish sanded after hand
>>>> sanding
>>>> the corners to get rid of the dust.
>>>
>>> where does one purchase the aforementioned sandpapers?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Woodcraft, Rockler
>>
>
> thanks
>

Keep in mind that the Festool Rotex sander was an important ingredient
to my success. Sand paper will last a lot longer when you use dust
collection with the sander to keep the debris cleared out.

On 2/22/2012 8:43 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 7:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/22/2012 6:32 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>> On 2/21/2012 11:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I quit painting cars 40 years ago, but, I spray furniture with both
>>>>>> my tools and my garage "furniture" in there.
>>>>>
>>>>> That just ain't right Jack. Painting ain't really painting if it
>>>>> don't include at least a fender here and there...
>>>>>
>>>> I always enjoyed painting cars but hated the sanding. Feel pretty
>>>> much the same with wood. I heard a super over priced Festering
>>>> sander makes sanding enjoyable... If my damn kid would have bought
>>>> me a festering sander instead of an Ipad, I'd know by now. As it is,
>>>> I'm still not a fan of sanding. I'm not even sure I'm a fan of
>>>> woodwork any more. Still at it, but only because I love my shop, and
>>>> tools, and people keep talking me into making stuff.
>>>
>>> I hear you Jack, on the sanding stuff. I am no fan of sanding either. I
>>> used to hate masking more than any other aspect of the task, but now I
>>> don't
>>> really mind it as much. Body drapes go a long way to reducing the
>>> amount of
>>> masking I used to do, and I don't mind that part much at all now.
>>>
>>> As far as the Festering sander goes - perhaps we could get Leon to
>>> send his
>>> up this way and we could both try it out for a bit to see if it brings a
>>> certain joy to the task. We could send it back to him once we've given
>>> it a
>>> try...
>>>
>>
>>
>> Go to your local store and try one out. Sanding is not fun. But when
>> sanding is accomplished much more quickly and with out dust it is not a
>> task to hate any more.
>>
>> PLUS Festool offers many types of sand paper. I recently discovered
>> their "Crystal" sand paper, very aggressive and glue does not gum up or
>> load the paper at all.
>> Yesterday I was sanding 10 face frames front and back after glue up. 6
>> joints on each side, 12 per face frame. One piece of Crystal 80 grit
>> paper to sand 120 sides at the joints with glue. 2 pieces of 120 grit
>> Rubin for both sides of the 10 face frames, 1 piece of 150 grit Rubin,
>> and two pieces of 180 grit Rubin for all sides plus inside edges. I hand
>> sanded all the corner edges with foam backed Mirka 180 grip paper. 4
>> hours.
>>
>> I only got dust when I hand sanded so I finish sanded after hand sanding
>> the corners to get rid of the dust.
>
> where does one purchase the aforementioned sandpapers?
>


Woodcraft, Rockler

On 1/24/2012 6:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

> I gave up teevee 5 years ago. Books are much quieter and are
> extremely more educational and fun.

And most authors who write woodworking books have been woodworking for
more than five or six years ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/2/2012 6:45 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 2/2/2012 11:58 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> On 2/2/2012 12:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/1/2012 6:10 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And on sale now!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the Story Stick Pro available in 24 and 48 inch are worth their
>>>>>> weight in gold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/measuringhome.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like good stuff! I've heard of them, but that was the first
>>>>> time I've seen the Woodpecker web site. I'll investigate more after
>>>>> I'm through with my "chores".. Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Bill Woodcraft also sells a black in color version of the same stuff
>>>> with the Pinnacle badge. Some times less expensive and Amazon sells
>>>> Pinnacle too.
>>>
>>> Thanks! I'll try to get my paws on one at Woodcraft. They appear to be
>>> of nice quality.
>>>
>>
>> I think Festool would make them this way. ;~)
>
> Let me ask this. Would you prefer these over a Starrett "steel forged"
> rules? Just curious. I assume the ones Woodpecker ones are aluminum, but
> they never actually said! I doubt the difference will show up in my work
> either way. I just know, and from experience, that I need more rules
> and/or straight edges! I was intending go get both in one--of course, LV
> sells them separately! ; )

Actually I own a small set of BridgeCity rules. I don't think they are
in production any longer. Back on point the Starrett rules would be
very nice but IIRC pricey. I do like the thin steel rules as there is
less chance of parallax being a problem The Story sticks work well if
you use the indexing tabs to make your mark. I would not want to try to
make the mark directly from the stick as it is about 1/2" thick.

Concerning their other measuring/layout tools it appears that their
edges are tapered but I am still not sure they would be better than a
thin steel rule. They are Aluminum BTY.

Don't assume you will not need the precision, things change, you might
one day. I had my thin steel rules for 15 plus years before using them
extensively.

The big plus with the story sticks is that one is 48 inches and rids me
of the need to use a tape measure in that range. My shorter 24" stick
fits into smaller places like inside cabinet face frames. I build lots
of those. I have used the story stick PRO's for more than lay out. I
aluse them for setting up the parallel guides on my Festool Tracks.
This works very well.

Answer you question or confuse you further? ;~) Basically I want both
types and do use both types.

On 1/31/2012 7:02 PM, Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> On 1/29/2012 9:39 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed
>>>>>> flat. There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may
>>>>>> no longer be flat or straight.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I brought home a 9' exception the other day. It looked
>>>>> pretty good laying on its face in the store. But resting on an edge
>>>>> both ends *curve up*. I'm going to cut it up anyway, so it will do
>>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> I glanced down at my new Maple board this morning, which has taken
>>>> temporary residence in the family room, and it has gone straight. To
>>>> my surprise, it looks perfect now.
>>>
>>> Oops, my board has one edge which is straight and one which curves.
>>> I knew it wasn't perfect when I bought it. But gosh, how
>>> embarrassing... You may have heard the expression "dumber than a
>>> board"?
>>>>>> Shaking head :::
>>
>> Looks like you bought the wrong board Bill - better take it back...
>>
>
> Naw, it's a good board. I knew it wasn't perfect when I bought it. How
> many of us are? I'll try to treat it well! Too much Krenov? : )
>
> I had it lying on its edge on a hard floor, and I could see light
> underneath, then my wife knocked it over, and when I righted it, it was
> perfect--or so I thought! At least it's got a good edge for registration
> (right word?). Maple. Smoothe. I understand Krenov a little better! ; )

Don't use a floor as our reference, how many of those are flat? LOL
Pick it on one end and look down its edge.

"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

CW wrote:
>
>
> "Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> CW wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Leon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> What Doug said in most cases but these just might have hardened edges as
>> they are being demonstrated with use ofwhat appears to be an Exacto
>> knife.
>> ========================================================================
>> They are actually hardened all over. That is the nature of anodizing.
>> The coating is extremely thin however and is easy to get under with a
>> sharp tool. Using it with a marking knife is possible but one slip and
>> it's (the rule) marked for life.
>
>
> Are the Starrett combination squares rules better in this regard since
> the metal is "forged/hardened"? I have a 12" one. I noticed that a
> Starrett 36" Steel rule is about $125, so that is not under
> consideration. A 6" combination square is coveted however--still around
> $80.
> ==========================================================================
> The Starrett combination squares are ideal for marking out with scriber
> or rule. As a matter of fact, this is what they were designed for. At
> one time, a high quality (Starrett, Brown and sharp, Lufkin ect) combo
> square was a must have for any apprentice machinist, sheet metal worker
> or cabinet maker. I hear you about the 6" combo square. Been wanting one
> for years.

Thanks for your intersting reply. I got the (12") Model: C33H-12-4R
comb. sq. at Amazon.com a few years ago for $80-90. I see prices have
gone up a bit. Evidently, it's good to be Starrett...

I thought I might save some money and buy just the corresponding 6" rule
and share the comb. sq. head between the 6" and 12" rules. Can anyone
here advise me how to order just the rule for C33H-6-4R? So far, my
efforts to locate it have failed.
=================================================================
The 6" rule is narrower than the 12". They won't fit the same head.

"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...


My original plan was to put the boards through my planer. But I
understand now why that might not be "good enough". But I suspect it is
if I'm willing to do diligently surface the "top".
===============================================================
Run them threw the planer. Spread glue and clamp the shit out of it. I'm not
kidding here. Titebond recommends 125 to 250 psi clamping pressure. The
alternative is to hang around in here and let everybody convince you That
you must do your glue up at the right time of the solar cycle, right part of
the lunar cycle, stand in the middle of a regulation pentagram and do the
correct chant to get a good glue up.

On 2/8/2012 9:22 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 2/2/2012 6:45 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/2/2012 11:58 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> On 2/2/2012 12:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/1/2012 6:10 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And on sale now!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the Story Stick Pro available in 24 and 48 inch are worth their
>>>>>>>> weight in gold.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/measuringhome.html
>>>>>>>
>
> If you are enjoying your Story Stick Pro, then you're just the kind of
> customer they want to watch the video here! Enjoy the smoothe sales pitch.
>
> http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html

Thanks Bill.... I find this stuff fast enough on my own.... I wonder
if it is going on sale soon. ;~)


And if you lied that....

Check the video here at the bottom of the page...I have this tool too
and it works effortlessly as advertised.

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/featured/km-1-kerfmaker.html

I use that tool to make these.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4288134856/in/photostream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4287393275/in/photostream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4287396695/in/photostream/lightbox/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4242237973/in/photostream/lightbox/


and

http://benchcrafted.com/Gallery.html

All great video's here but I especially like the Glide leg vice.

On 1/29/2012 6:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
> twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

Hardwood Products, Clarks Lumber AKA Hardwood Lumber to name the 2 that
I use the most. Both in Houston. IIRC both suppliers mill their own
S2S and S4S lumber.


>
> I joint because it's a lot easier to have squared up wood from my
> process, than picking through tons of lumber. I rarely see straight wood.
> So when I get rough cut wood I just expect to true it up. I find
> building with that wood easier. I don't have to deal with twists, which
> for already surfaced wood means I need to knock it down in thickness, or
> rip it and fix smaller strips and then glue them back.
>
> Same amount of work and time? No. truer, and faster.

And oddly we/I have to look to find rough cut lumber of any quantity, I
do have a source some 80 miles away however that absolutely wipes out
any savings.



>
>
>
> On 1/29/2012 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> Anyone out there making
>>>>> furniture with no power jointer?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
>>>> collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>> Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
>>>> S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go
>>>> back
>>>> to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
>>>> lumber with my track saw.
>>>
>>> I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.
>>>
>>> But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
>>> would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?
>>
>>
>> Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
>> There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
>> flat or straight. For the most part S2S will be consistent thickness but
>> will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most often 4/4 S2S is
>> 13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the desired thickness,
>> usually 3/4".
>>
>> Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
>> you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
>> address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
>> The track saw works much better in this case.

"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

CW wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
> What Doug said in most cases but these just might have hardened edges as
> they are being demonstrated with use ofwhat appears to be an Exacto knife.
> ========================================================================
> They are actually hardened all over. That is the nature of anodizing.
> The coating is extremely thin however and is easy to get under with a
> sharp tool. Using it with a marking knife is possible but one slip and
> it's (the rule) marked for life.


Are the Starrett combination squares rules better in this regard since
the metal is "forged/hardened"? I have a 12" one. I noticed that a
Starrett 36" Steel rule is about $125, so that is not under
consideration. A 6" combination square is coveted however--still around
$80.
==========================================================================
The Starrett combination squares are ideal for marking out with scriber or
rule. As a matter of fact, this is what they were designed for. At one time,
a high quality (Starrett, Brown and sharp, Lufkin ect) combo square was a
must have for any apprentice machinist, sheet metal worker or cabinet maker.
I hear you about the 6" combo square. Been wanting one for years.

On 2/9/2012 7:41 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 2/9/2012 8:19 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/8/2012 9:22 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/2/2012 6:45 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/2/2012 11:58 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/2/2012 12:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/1/2012 6:10 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And on sale now!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the Story Stick Pro available in 24 and 48 inch are worth
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> weight in gold.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/measuringhome.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> If you are enjoying your Story Stick Pro, then you're just the kind of
>>> customer they want to watch the video here! Enjoy the smoothe sales
>>> pitch.
>>>
>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html
>>
>> Thanks Bill.... I find this stuff fast enough on my own.... I wonder if
>> it is going on sale soon. ;~)
>
> Okay, here's another newbe question I have had on the Aluminum rules.
> Owning them, do you mark/cut along them with a knife or box cutter, or
> are they just not designed for that sort of abuse. For instance, would
> that compromise the edges (as I am concerned it might)?
>
> I haven't looked at your links below yet, but I will!

What Doug said in most cases but these just might have hardened edges as
they are being demonstrated with use ofwhat appears to be an Exacto knife.

http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html

"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?
==============================================

Yep.

"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


What Doug said in most cases but these just might have hardened edges as
they are being demonstrated with use ofwhat appears to be an Exacto knife.
========================================================================
They are actually hardened all over. That is the nature of anodizing. The
coating is extremely thin however and is easy to get under with a sharp
tool. Using it with a marking knife is possible but one slip and it's (the
rule) marked for life.

On 2/22/2012 12:39 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/22/2012 8:43 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> On 2/22/2012 7:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/22/2012 6:32 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 2/21/2012 11:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I quit painting cars 40 years ago, but, I spray furniture with both
>>>>>>> my tools and my garage "furniture" in there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That just ain't right Jack. Painting ain't really painting if it
>>>>>> don't include at least a fender here and there...
>>>>>>
>>>>> I always enjoyed painting cars but hated the sanding. Feel pretty
>>>>> much the same with wood. I heard a super over priced Festering
>>>>> sander makes sanding enjoyable... If my damn kid would have bought
>>>>> me a festering sander instead of an Ipad, I'd know by now. As it is,
>>>>> I'm still not a fan of sanding. I'm not even sure I'm a fan of
>>>>> woodwork any more. Still at it, but only because I love my shop, and
>>>>> tools, and people keep talking me into making stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I hear you Jack, on the sanding stuff. I am no fan of sanding either. I
>>>> used to hate masking more than any other aspect of the task, but now I
>>>> don't
>>>> really mind it as much. Body drapes go a long way to reducing the
>>>> amount of
>>>> masking I used to do, and I don't mind that part much at all now.
>>>>
>>>> As far as the Festering sander goes - perhaps we could get Leon to
>>>> send his
>>>> up this way and we could both try it out for a bit to see if it
>>>> brings a
>>>> certain joy to the task. We could send it back to him once we've given
>>>> it a
>>>> try...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Go to your local store and try one out. Sanding is not fun. But when
>>> sanding is accomplished much more quickly and with out dust it is not a
>>> task to hate any more.
>>>
>>> PLUS Festool offers many types of sand paper. I recently discovered
>>> their "Crystal" sand paper, very aggressive and glue does not gum up or
>>> load the paper at all.
>>> Yesterday I was sanding 10 face frames front and back after glue up. 6
>>> joints on each side, 12 per face frame. One piece of Crystal 80 grit
>>> paper to sand 120 sides at the joints with glue. 2 pieces of 120 grit
>>> Rubin for both sides of the 10 face frames, 1 piece of 150 grit Rubin,
>>> and two pieces of 180 grit Rubin for all sides plus inside edges. I hand
>>> sanded all the corner edges with foam backed Mirka 180 grip paper. 4
>>> hours.
>>>
>>> I only got dust when I hand sanded so I finish sanded after hand sanding
>>> the corners to get rid of the dust.
>>
>> where does one purchase the aforementioned sandpapers?
>>
>
>
> Woodcraft, Rockler
>

thanks

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

I joint because it's a lot easier to have squared up wood from my
process, than picking through tons of lumber. I rarely see straight wood.
So when I get rough cut wood I just expect to true it up. I find
building with that wood easier. I don't have to deal with twists, which
for already surfaced wood means I need to knock it down in thickness, or
rip it and fix smaller strips and then glue them back.

Same amount of work and time? No. truer, and faster.



On 1/29/2012 6:35 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> Anyone out there making
>>>> furniture with no power jointer?
>>>
>>> Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
>>> collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
>>> S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
>>> to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
>>> lumber with my track saw.
>>
>> I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.
>>
>> But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
>> would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?
>
>
> Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
> There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
> flat or straight. For the most part S2S will be consistent thickness but
> will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most often 4/4 S2S is
> 13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the desired thickness,
> usually 3/4".
>
> Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
> you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
> address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
> The track saw works much better in this case.

Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Don't buy the cheap one....
>
> Get a real tool for setups:
>
> http://www.ts-aligner.com/tsalignerjr.htm
>
> I have had one for several years and it
> can not be surpassed for power tool setup.
>
>
>

Good luck with that... http://www.ts-aligner.com/reseller.asp

I bought one a couple of years ago and damn near never got it.
The excuse was that with the economic downturn he didn't have
enough money and had to purchase supplies before he could
machine them. I gave him 30 days and then disputed the billing
on my credit card hence his new policy.

Note that I was billed and waited 30 days, not ordered and
billed when shipped. Had it been the latter I could live with
it.

All that said, it is a quality piece but there are others out
there. Most would never use all of the features that this tool
offers. If I had to do it again I would probably just build one
and buy a good indicator.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 2/8/2012 9:22 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/2/2012 6:45 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 2/2/2012 11:58 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/2/2012 12:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/1/2012 6:10 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And on sale now!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the Story Stick Pro available in 24 and 48 inch are worth
>>>>>>>>> their weight in gold.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/measuringhome.html
>>>>>>>>
>>
>> If you are enjoying your Story Stick Pro, then you're just the kind
>> of customer they want to watch the video here! Enjoy the smoothe
>> sales pitch.
>>
>> http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html
>
> Thanks Bill.... I find this stuff fast enough on my own.... I wonder
> if it is going on sale soon. ;~)
>
>
> And if you lied that....
>
> Check the video here at the bottom of the page...I have this tool too
> and it works effortlessly as advertised.
>
> http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/featured/km-1-kerfmaker.html
>
> I use that tool to make these.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4288134856/in/photostream/lightbo
> x/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4287393275/in/photostream/lightbo
> x/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4287396695/in/photostream/lightbo
> x/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/4242237973/in/photostream/lightbo
> x/
>
>
> and
>
> http://benchcrafted.com/Gallery.html
>
> All great video's here but I especially like the Glide leg vice.

drooling ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Okay, here's another newbe question I have had on the Aluminum rules.
> Owning them, do you mark/cut along them with a knife or box cutter, or
> are they just not designed for that sort of abuse. For instance,
> would that compromise the edges (as I am concerned it might)?

If you use a proper marking knife, that's not an issue: the edge is beveled on only one side. If you put
the flat of the knife against the rule -- and keep it there -- you can draw your marks with no risk of
damaging the rule.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> It occurred to me that the tools I have been using for "measuring and
> marking with a knife" most of the time are my my two trusty framing
> squares! I have a big one (18") and a handy little one (6").
>
> I'm almost afraid to hazzard a guess where those fit in with you
> expert measurers. Is the answer accurate enough for carpentry, but
> not furniture, or something like that? What do you think?

I'd agree with that description.
>
> When I bought them both for about $22 one day, I thought was making an
> investment in quality measurin'! At that time, I would have guessed
> a starrett was something in the sky! Now I know I wouldn't have been
> far off!

If you want accuracy, you have to pay for it. Good tools are worth the money.

On 2/22/2012 7:59 AM, Leon wrote:

> I only got dust when I hand sanded so I finish sanded after hand sanding
> the corners to get rid of the dust.

Did the same thing yesterday ... ran through the grits with the Festool
setup on the bottom part of a desk.

The final, light hand pass and breaking the edges with Norton 220 caused
the only dust I'd seen/breathed all day. And, I had to blow it off with
the air compressor, for the first time.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/9/2012 8:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/9/2012 7:19 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Check the video here at the bottom of the page...I have this tool too
>> and it works effortlessly as advertised.
>>
>> http://www.bridgecitytools.com/default/featured/km-1-kerfmaker.html
>
> I'm going to need to see your technique. I used it again just recently
> on the current desk project and, for the third time, spent more time
> screwing with it than if I had broken out the dado set and gone after it
> in the first place.
>
> Ultimately, it works, but not without more fussing then I'm prepared to
> spend.
>
> I think my problem is in setting the cutting blade width, and/or when
> moving the fence on the TS for the second cut.
>
> I even followed Paul-Marcel's video to a "t" this last time, including
> making a couple of his setup blocks:
>
> http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/label/KM-1
>
> The resulting joint is initially always too tight. Do you use any
> experienced based fudge factor?
>
> Perhaps I'm being too precise?
>

If it is always too tight, add a thin shim .007" maybe a piece of
newspaper or printer paper to the thickness of the test cut for
calibrating jig to the actual cutter kerf width. After that you should
be fine. You should only need to to that on the cutter kerf adjustment
to calibrate the jig. After that you can be as exact as you want to be
when measuring for the needed width of cut.

Another thing I do not use the calipers to transfer the cutter kerf
width to calibrate the jig, I use the method where you make a limited
rip on scrap and cut that section off and stack it back on the scrap to
calibrate the jig.

Basically if you are getting a too tight result every time it is your
initial calibration. Try using a very thin shim to add to the resulting
test cut as mentioned above.

On 1/29/2012 6:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Leon, I stopped using surfaced wood as it was never flat, always
> twisted. Where do you find this wonderful flat 2s wood?

We have at least four good hardwood places that let you pick and chose
here in Houston, so, if you can read a board, you can reasonably come
home with what you pay for.

The problem I find is when I phone order so many board/linear feet for
pick up, from the same places ... then I damn well better factor at
least 20% for waste.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>> On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>>> I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
>>>> And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
>>>> the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
>>>
>>> If that is what Roland Johnson said he is ignorant.
>>
>> To be fair, what he said is that "one should only rip with ripping
>> blades, only crosscut with cross-cutting blades, and *avoid* the
>> combination blades--it doesn't take that long to change blades."
>
> Yeah if you are relatively inexpensive blades and yo have time to kill
> changing blades. I would have to change blades 8~10 time daily. THAT is
> why I switched to a top quality combo/general purpose blade. It is highly
> unlike you would notice an appreciable difference.
>

I use the Forrest WWII the vast majority of the time for just that reason...
However, when I've got a lot of ripping of solid 6/4-12/4 planed wood to do
I swap over to a Freud, coated, rip blade. It makes for much faster and
easier cuts on long rips. This as the tooth shape and large gullet size
allow it to take big bites and carry the dust away. I think the latter
makes the most difference as even with my 3 HP saw the WWII requires a
slower feed than the rip blade as it cannot handle the waste of thick stock.

I've noticed in more recent times that I find myself cutting things like 8/4
maple or cherry on the 18" bandsaw whether it's planed or rough cut. Rough
cut 4/4 or 5/4 is always ripped, and cross-cut if possible, on the bandsaw
when rough sizing boards.

I realize that not everyone has all these options though... I never ran out
of reasons for another tool purchase. ;~)

John

On 2/2/2012 11:58 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 2/2/2012 12:08 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/1/2012 6:10 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/
>>>>
>>>> And on sale now!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/woodworkingrules.html
>>>>
>>>> And the Story Stick Pro available in 24 and 48 inch are worth their
>>>> weight in gold.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.woodpeck.com/measuringhome.html
>>>
>>> Looks like good stuff! I've heard of them, but that was the first
>>> time I've seen the Woodpecker web site. I'll investigate more after
>>> I'm through with my "chores".. Thank you!
>>
>> Bill Woodcraft also sells a black in color version of the same stuff
>> with the Pinnacle badge. Some times less expensive and Amazon sells
>> Pinnacle too.
>
> Thanks! I'll try to get my paws on one at Woodcraft. They appear to be
> of nice quality.
>

I think Festool would make them this way. ;~)

On 1/31/2012 7:55 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 1/29/2012 9:39 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>
>>> Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
>>> There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
>>> flat or straight.
>>
>> I think I brought home a 9' exception the other day. It looked pretty
>> good laying on its face in the store. But resting on an edge both ends
>> *curve up*. I'm going to cut it up anyway, so it will do fine.
>
> I glanced down at my new Maple board this morning, which has taken
> temporary residence in the family room, and it has gone straight. To my
> surprise, it looks perfect now. Surely, it's either my clean living or
> the humidifier in the next room! ; )
>
> I know what they say about letting wood adjust to it's new surroundings.
> Well, there ya go! : )
>
> Bill
>

Something to watch for. LOL Pick up the board on one end and look down
its length and it looks straight. Turn it over and WOW it has a curve in
it.

Most of the time with the exception of cabinet door frames I don't worry
too much about a slight bow. That can be worked out when attaching to
other pieces of the project.

On 2/1/2012 2:36 PM, Bill wrote:

> So, I'm the only one that uses the floor at the store as a reference
> surface when buying lumber? There, I divulged my "secret"! : )
> I'll try yours.

No thanks. :) If I really want to check "flat", I use one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Stabila-37472-builders-Certified-Professional/dp/B00009OLI4/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1328131762&sr=1-3

If it would fit in my truck, I'd probably have the 96".

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 2/3/2012 2:31 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:44:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/24/2012 3:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:36:43 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/24/2012 6:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I gave up teevee 5 years ago. Books are much quieter and are
>>>>> extremely more educational and fun.
>>>>
>>>> And most authors who write woodworking books have been woodworking for
>>>> more than five or six years ...
>>>
>>> ? But not all authors put out good books, nor does it take 5 or 6
>>> years to write a book, either good or bad.
>>
>> Sometimes I worry about your ken, C_less?
>>
>> IOW ... many of today TV/ Internet video woodjockey's have not been
>> practicing the craft long enough to _KNOW ENOUGH_ to write a good book.
>>
>> Capice?
>
> Had you included a smiley on that first post, I would have caught the
> joke. As it was, you appeared to be _praisin'_ them varmints.
>
> --
> Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
> -- Thomas Jefferson


Did you/do you think he is joking?

On 2/3/2012 2:02 PM, Bill wrote:
> On 2/3/2012 1:17 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/3/2012 11:35 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I try to design with 1/16 being the smallest measurement. I would
>>>> rather
>>>> the thin steel rules only be in that smallest increment like a tape
>>>> measure. BUT when working with wood nothing is perfect and a perfect
>>>> fit
>>>> might be 8-1/32" when the design called for 8". That is when I don't
>>>> measure at all for the perfect fit. I would use a utility knife to mark
>>>> the actual board against the actual opening and cut at those scored
>>>> marks. Use a sacrificial board on your miter gauge and the kerf slot
>>>> created on that sacrificial board by the blade as your reference to
>>>> cut at.
>>>
>>> And you get to keep cutting up sacrificial boards until you get it
>>> "perfect", huh? Sounds good, with power or hand (mitre box) saw!
>>>
>>
>> No Nononoooonono nono. ;~)
>>
>> The sacrificial fence on the TS miter gauge or miter saw will basically
>> have a zero clearance kerf slot cut in it. You make that cut first. Then
>> you align your mark on the project wood to which ever side of that slot
>> is appropriate.
>>
>> When the slot on the sacrificial fence starts to become a little fuzzy
>> along the edges, slide the fence down a bit and make a new reference
>> slot.
>>
>
> Got it! : ) You talk as if these sacrificial fences grow on trees!

Scraps.

On Jan 22, 11:06=A0pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> I went to the WoodWorking Shows this weekend. =A0Roland Johnson, from FWW=
,
> was recommending a tool like in the subject line (none in particular)
> for doing TS set-up. =A0I would like to use it to measure run-out too.
> Thus, I anticipate very occasional use. =A0I saw this one at Grizzly:
>
> http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G9849
>
> Similar item also listed at Amazon, Lee Valley, Peach Tree WW, and
> several others listed too, including Harbor Freight, but just by looking
> at them, they look like they have come from the same source. =A0Lots of
> reviews say they are very fragile (at the joint) and are easily stripped
> and fall apart.
>
> At least if I buy it at Harbor Freight, I would have to go far to return
> it if it falls apart in 30 days.
>
> Any words of advice on this item here (can you recommend one)?
>
> Bill

I have owned that Grizzly set for about ten years and it is fine. I
too bought mine for table saw setup but it gets used for lots of other
things too. When I had to tear down my thickness planer a couple of
years ago it made table adjustment easy.

Ron

Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> On 1/29/2012 9:39 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed
>>>> flat. There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may
>>>> no longer be flat or straight.
>>>
>>> I think I brought home a 9' exception the other day. It looked
>>> pretty good laying on its face in the store. But resting on an edge
>>> both ends *curve up*. I'm going to cut it up anyway, so it will do
>>> fine.
>>
>> I glanced down at my new Maple board this morning, which has taken
>> temporary residence in the family room, and it has gone straight. To
>> my surprise, it looks perfect now.
>
> Oops, my board has one edge which is straight and one which curves.
> I knew it wasn't perfect when I bought it. But gosh, how
> embarrassing... You may have heard the expression "dumber than a
> board"?
>>>> Shaking head :::

Looks like you bought the wrong board Bill - better take it back...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On 2/9/2012 2:07 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
> What Doug said in most cases but these just might have hardened edges as
> they are being demonstrated with use ofwhat appears to be an Exacto knife.
> ========================================================================
> They are actually hardened all over. That is the nature of anodizing.
> The coating is extremely thin however and is easy to get under with a
> sharp tool. Using it with a marking knife is possible but one slip and
> it's (the rule) marked for life.

Understood, I do know that there are harder aluminum's and thought
maybe they might use that in addition to the anodizing. Especially
sense their site shows some one using an exacto knife along that edge.
===============================================================
I'm sure they are using a hard aluminum. Probably tempered 6061 or 7075. As
unintuitive as it would seem, hard aluminum is much easier to machine than
soft stuff. Even the hardest aluminum though is much softer than hardened
steel (knife blade). I think the x acto in the picture is more advertising
hype than practicality. I would never use one of these with a knife but for
measuring, they look like a fine product. Another up side. They are American
made on Haas machines. Haas is made in USA.

Jack wrote:

>>
> I quit painting cars 40 years ago, but, I spray furniture with both my
> tools and my garage "furniture" in there.

That just ain't right Jack. Painting ain't really painting if it don't
include at least a fender here and there...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/25/2012 10:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> From Texas all of those NE accents sound the same.
>
> Oh, that's only because we say "You guys..."
>

Which is a LOT different than "y'all" LOL

Leon wrote:

>
> PLUS Festool offers many types of sand paper. I recently discovered
> their "Crystal" sand paper, very aggressive and glue does not gum up
> or load the paper at all.
> Yesterday I was sanding 10 face frames front and back after glue up. 6
> joints on each side, 12 per face frame. One piece of Crystal 80
> grit paper to sand 120 sides at the joints with glue. 2 pieces of
> 120 grit Rubin for both sides of the 10 face frames, 1 piece of 150
> grit Rubin, and two pieces of 180 grit Rubin for all sides plus
> inside edges. I hand sanded all the corner edges with foam backed
> Mirka 180 grip paper. 4 hours.
>

Good sandpaper is most of the battle. That's something I don't scrimp on
anymore.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jan 23, 12:06=A0am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> I went to the WoodWorking Shows this weekend. =A0Roland Johnson, from FWW=
,
> was recommending a tool like in the subject line (none in particular)
> for doing TS set-up. =A0I would like to use it to measure run-out too.
> Thus, I anticipate very occasional use. =A0I saw this one at Grizzly:
>
> http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G9849
>
> Similar item also listed at Amazon, Lee Valley, Peach Tree WW, and
> several others listed too, including Harbor Freight, but just by looking
> at them, they look like they have come from the same source. =A0Lots of
> reviews say they are very fragile (at the joint) and are easily stripped
> and fall apart.
>
> At least if I buy it at Harbor Freight, I would have to go far to return
> it if it falls apart in 30 days.
>
> Any words of advice on this item here (can you recommend one)?

This style base is supposed to be better, arm is supposed to not
be as prone to slipping:

http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Flexible-Magnetic-Base-Holder-130-lb-Force/G9=
625

OTOH, what do you want for $20? The dial is plenty useful
with other shopmade jigs. Note that the back of the magnetic
base sticks as well as the bottom.

Jack wrote:
> On 2/12/2012 11:38 PM, Bill wrote:
:
>
>> I have a few projects in front of me before I try furniture for the
>> house. Who knows, maybe "furniture for the garage" will be my
>> specialty? : )
>
> Don't forget the deck...
>
> I've always felt a good way to learn how to make stuff was to make
> stuff for your shop, like workbenches, tool benches, stools,
> cabinets. Then go for deck furniture, benches, chairs, tables,
> flower boxes and so on. Once you do all that and accumulate some
> tools, learn how to use them and so on, if still interested, go for
> the house furniture. Same stuff, just more expensive materials. I
> still enjoy making "furniture for the garage"

How in the heck do you paint cars in your garage with furniture in there?...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

>
> So, I'm the only one that uses the floor at the store as a reference
> surface when buying lumber?

If you are not the only one Bill, I strongly suspect you are among a very
small minority. Give up that practice.

> There, I divulged my "secret"! : )

Thankfully - now you can move on to better "secrets".

> I'll try yours.

Good man!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 1/24/2012 3:29 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>>
>> Tommy Mac.... you have to understand Juersey to understand a word he
>> says. ;~)
>
> Strangest spelling I've ever seen for "Massachusetts."
>
>
> http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/abouttommy.php
>

Hey that link say where he is from not from where he got his accent. ;~)

From Texas all of those NE accents sound the same.

On 1/24/2012 10:33 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 10:19 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Thank you rpb, that sounds like a good suggestion. Gluing top side down,
>> say on level piece of hardboard, might possibly help too. I just "know"
>> the wood is not going to cooperate with me on this! ; )
>
> Go to:
>
> http://e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm
>
> ... and scroll most of the way down the page to the date 3/20-25/04 to
> get one idea on how to do an extra wide panel glue-ups.
>
> Note: jointing the edges of couple of 2 x 4's, and attaching them,
> jointed side up, to a flat surface; then using the jointed surface of
> the 2x 4's to support the glue-up, serves a dual purpose ... in both
> helping to keep things flat, and allowing you to alternate clamping
> pressure from top and underneath so that all your clamping force is not
> across one surface:
>
> http://e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table8.jpg
>
>

Hummmm a use for my mortiser that I had not thought of yet. ;~)

On 1/29/2012 8:39 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:

>> Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
>> you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
>> address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
>> The track saw works much better in this case.
>
> Good point. I didn't think of that. Thanks for the lesson!
> If there's a theme here, it seems to be "be concerned about everything
> that can go wrong".
>



Good catch there, the better your stock is to begin with the fewer the
little inconsistencies show up later to a greater magnitude.

Keep in mind that hardwoods that are sold at the big box stores tend to
be 2 to 3 tomes more expensive than a hardwood lumber yard that has a
much larger volume of hardwood sales. Smaller hardwood "boutiques" tend
to be pretty pricey also.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
> Anyone out
>>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>>
>> Prolly 3/4 of the world and most of our ancestors, Bill.
>
>I was just talking about youse guys. Did I mention I got to meet Tommy
>Mac? -- Nice guy; He seems to be trying hard.

Who's Tommy Mac? (Quickly Googlin'...) Oh, I've never seen Rough
Cut. I gave up teevee 5 years ago. Books are much quieter and are
extremely more educational and fun.

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On 2/9/2012 3:48 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On 2/9/2012 2:07 PM, CW wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Leon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> What Doug said in most cases but these just might have hardened edges as
>> they are being demonstrated with use ofwhat appears to be an Exacto
>> knife.
>> ========================================================================
>> They are actually hardened all over. That is the nature of anodizing.
>> The coating is extremely thin however and is easy to get under with a
>> sharp tool. Using it with a marking knife is possible but one slip and
>> it's (the rule) marked for life.
>
> Understood, I do know that there are harder aluminum's and thought
> maybe they might use that in addition to the anodizing. Especially
> sense their site shows some one using an exacto knife along that edge.
> ===============================================================
> I'm sure they are using a hard aluminum. Probably tempered 6061 or 7075.
> As unintuitive as it would seem, hard aluminum is much easier to machine
> than soft stuff. Even the hardest aluminum though is much softer than
> hardened steel (knife blade). I think the x acto in the picture is more
> advertising hype than practicality. I would never use one of these with
> a knife but for measuring, they look like a fine product. Another up
> side. They are American made on Haas machines. Haas is made in USA.

Don't think I would use a knife on it either...

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:39:35 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 2/3/2012 2:31 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:44:01 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/24/2012 3:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:36:43 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/24/2012 6:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I gave up teevee 5 years ago. Books are much quieter and are
>>>>>> extremely more educational and fun.
>>>>>
>>>>> And most authors who write woodworking books have been woodworking for
>>>>> more than five or six years ...
>>>>
>>>> ? But not all authors put out good books, nor does it take 5 or 6
>>>> years to write a book, either good or bad.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I worry about your ken, C_less?
>>>
>>> IOW ... many of today TV/ Internet video woodjockey's have not been
>>> practicing the craft long enough to _KNOW ENOUGH_ to write a good book.
>>>
>>> Capice?
>>
>> Had you included a smiley on that first post, I would have caught the
>> joke. As it was, you appeared to be _praisin'_ them varmints.
>>
>
>Did you/do you think he is joking?

I am now aware of his cynicism toward the TV/Internet video
woodjockeys and I agree with it. How's that?

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/25/2012 10:02 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
>>
>> "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 1/24/2012 6:05 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I recall in shop class in 1968 you would receive 3 licks if caught
>>> using the jointer to surface more one edge and one side or to clean up
>>> a an edge after going through the TS. ;~)
>>
>> I think some guys were and are unreasonable... I cannot tell you how
>> many times I've uncovered defects on the first jointed edge or face of
>> rough cut that led me to joint the opposite edge and/or face so that the
>> defect would be removed by the thickness planer or saw in final
>> dimensioning... I see it as a lack of reasonableness in their position
>> on things.
>>
>> John
>
>
> Then you would proceed with straightening the opposite edge as usual with
> the TS, flipping the board, and cutting the board to width with the defect
> on the waste side.
> Same would apply to a face with a defect.

That depends on how uniform the board was to start with, and other
factors... It is not unusual for me to find that the rough cut board tapers
in thickness and/or width with the result being that much more wood is
removed from some areas than others during 4 squaring. Add in discoveries
about twist, cupping, checks, figure, grain direction changes, etc. and
changing the initial reference surfaces during preparation is not unusual at
all. Of course if grain and figure alignment and surface quality don't
matter for the intended use this doesn't matter much... just cram it through
like framing grade dimension lumber is prepared!

John

On 1/23/2012 12:45 AM, Father Haskell wrote:
> On Jan 23, 12:06 am, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I went to the WoodWorking Shows this weekend. Roland Johnson, from FWW,
>> was recommending a tool like in the subject line (none in particular)
>> for doing TS set-up. I would like to use it to measure run-out too.
>> Thus, I anticipate very occasional use. I saw this one at Grizzly:
>>
>> http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G9849
>>
>> Similar item also listed at Amazon, Lee Valley, Peach Tree WW, and
>> several others listed too, including Harbor Freight, but just by looking
>> at them, they look like they have come from the same source. Lots of
>> reviews say they are very fragile (at the joint) and are easily stripped
>> and fall apart.
>>
>> At least if I buy it at Harbor Freight, I would have to go far to return
>> it if it falls apart in 30 days.
>>
>> Any words of advice on this item here (can you recommend one)?
>
> This style base is supposed to be better, arm is supposed to not
> be as prone to slipping:
>
> http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Flexible-Magnetic-Base-Holder-130-lb-Force/G9625
>
> OTOH, what do you want for $20?

This may in fact be a better solution since the other one has issues.
This solution appears to be in the $50-60 range when you include a dial
indicator and P&H. I can probably budget for that. Perhaps I can
recover some of these expenses from my first sale! ; ) Thanks for the
suggestion!


The dial is plenty useful
> with other shopmade jigs. Note that the back of the magnetic
> base sticks as well as the bottom.

Larry Jaques wrote:

> Huh? Tablesaw setup? You'd want a DI set up on a miter slot for
> that, wouldn't you? Or a height gauge?

I think he (Roland Johnson) pushed the indicator in the miter slot
passed a 90-degree blade to check the horizontal alignment, and passed
it by a tilted (say 45-degree blade) to check vertical alignment. He
said most modern blades are near perfectly flat due to modern
technology. Concerning your comment: Height seems immaterial except
calibrating the height of the adjustor (or if you're checking vertical
alignment that way)?

I think he had a jig he made out of some acrylic sort of stuff. Maybe
most any sled would work if there is a place to hold the indicator base.



I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
#4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
there making furniture with no power jointer?

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
>> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better.
>
> Yes a well tuned cabinet saw with the right balde can easily make
> clean enough cuts for glue jointing. It takes very gppd technique to
> never have small edge outs but it can be done.
>
> When I was doing lots of really big edge glued butcher block tops I
> would rip all the maple very carefully. The I would only join the
> pieces that showed and edge gaps when getting ready for glue up. I got
> pretty good after a while.

Here's a theoretical question. : )
Supposed I planned to glue 12-15 8' planks of southern yellow pine
2by-lumber face-to-face to make a bench top. I have 15 pipe clamps.
Should I expect to joint the faces in order to end up with a
decent-looking benchtop?

I'll surely make a mini-version for small table or something, to learn
my lessons on the cheap.

Lew put the idea above for this benchtop in my head a couple years ago
and it's still there. No matter how the table ends up being built, at
least the idea has been there to inspire me while I cut my teeth.

Larry Jaques wrote:
Anyone out
>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>
> Prolly 3/4 of the world and most of our ancestors, Bill.

I was just talking about youse guys. Did I mention I got to meet Tommy
Mac? -- Nice guy; He seems to be trying hard.

Bill wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>>> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
>>> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better.
>>
>> Yes a well tuned cabinet saw with the right balde can easily make
>> clean enough cuts for glue jointing. It takes very gppd technique to
>> never have small edge outs but it can be done.
>>
>> When I was doing lots of really big edge glued butcher block tops I
>> would rip all the maple very carefully. The I would only join the
>> pieces that showed and edge gaps when getting ready for glue up. I got
>> pretty good after a while.
>
> Here's a theoretical question. : )
> Supposed I planned to glue 12-15 8' planks of southern yellow pine
> 2by-lumber face-to-face to make a bench top. I have 15 pipe clamps.
> Should I expect to joint the faces in order to end up with a
> decent-looking benchtop?

My original plan was to put the boards through my planer. But I
understand now why that might not be "good enough". But I suspect it is
if I'm willing to do diligently surface the "top".



>
> I'll surely make a mini-version for small table or something, to learn
> my lessons on the cheap.
>
> Lew put the idea above for this benchtop in my head a couple years ago
> and it's still there. No matter how the table ends up being built, at
> least the idea has been there to inspire me while I cut my teeth.

On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Anyone out
>>>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>>>
>>> Prolly 3/4 of the world and most of our ancestors, Bill.
>>

Okay, I need to get going on my honing materials (strap/board). I need
to hone woodcarving gouges and plane irons. When I went shopping
online, I found I didn't understand the terminology (of leather). My
uncertainty had to do with whether the leather was of uniform thickness
or not. I would think leather between 1/8" and 3/16" thick seems right,
because of my presumption that if it is too thick, there is greater risk
of accidentally rounding the edge.

Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
(cows excluded)?

Bill

On 1/23/2012 11:52 PM, Bill wrote:
...

>> Here's a theoretical question. : )
>> Supposed I planned to glue 12-15 8' planks of southern yellow pine
>> 2by-lumber face-to-face to make a bench top. I have 15 pipe clamps.
>> Should I expect to joint the faces in order to end up with a
>> decent-looking benchtop?
>
> My original plan was to put the boards through my planer. But I
> understand now why that might not be "good enough". But I suspect it is
> if I'm willing to do diligently surface the "top".
...

If you are careful to select stock w/o much wind or any short bends and
glue up in sections should work perfectly well for the purpose. I'd
glue up sections that could still get thru the planer (or find someone
w/ a large thickness sander) to clean up the tops before the final glueup.

--

On 1/24/2012 10:43 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 11:52 PM, Bill wrote:
> ...
>
>>> Here's a theoretical question. : )
>>> Supposed I planned to glue 12-15 8' planks of southern yellow pine
>>> 2by-lumber face-to-face to make a bench top. I have 15 pipe clamps.
>>> Should I expect to joint the faces in order to end up with a
>>> decent-looking benchtop?
>>
>> My original plan was to put the boards through my planer. But I
>> understand now why that might not be "good enough". But I suspect it is
>> if I'm willing to do diligently surface the "top".
> ...
>
> If you are careful to select stock w/o much wind or any short bends and
> glue up in sections should work perfectly well for the purpose. I'd glue
> up sections that could still get thru the planer (or find someone w/ a
> large thickness sander) to clean up the tops before the final glueup.
>
> --

Thank you rpb, that sounds like a good suggestion. Gluing top side
down, say on level piece of hardboard, might possibly help too. I just
"know" the wood is not going to cooperate with me on this! ; )

Don't buy the cheap one....

Get a real tool for setups:

http://www.ts-aligner.com/tsalignerjr.htm

I have had one for several years and it
can not be surpassed for power tool setup.




On 1/22/2012 9:06 PM, Bill wrote:
> I went to the WoodWorking Shows this weekend. Roland Johnson, from FWW,
> was recommending a tool like in the subject line (none in particular)
> for doing TS set-up. I would like to use it to measure run-out too.
> Thus, I anticipate very occasional use. I saw this one at Grizzly:
>
> http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/G9849

On 1/24/2012 11:33 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 10:19 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Thank you rpb, that sounds like a good suggestion. Gluing top side down,
>> say on level piece of hardboard, might possibly help too. I just "know"
>> the wood is not going to cooperate with me on this! ; )
>
> Go to:
>
> http://e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm
>
> ... and scroll most of the way down the page to the date 3/20-25/04 to
> get one idea on how to do an extra wide panel glue-ups.
>
> Note: jointing the edges of couple of 2 x 4's, and attaching them,
> jointed side up, to a flat surface; then using the jointed surface of
> the 2x 4's to support the glue-up, serves a dual purpose ... in both
> helping to keep things flat, and allowing you to alternate clamping
> pressure from top and underneath so that all your clamping force is not
> across one surface:
>
> http://e-woodshop.net/images/Trestle%20Table8.jpg
>
>

Some nice ideas there, Swing. Thank you. Your use of biscuits was a
nice way to get the results you wanted. I'm unprepared to make those,
but I could substitute threaded-rod (s) though the wood. Either method
could backfire I suppose if one is fighting tension in the wood. But the
jointing your did and your use of use quarter-sawn materials almost
eliminates all possible worries! : )

On 1/23/2012 10:15 PM, Bill wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>>> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
>>> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better.
>>
>> Yes a well tuned cabinet saw with the right balde can easily make
>> clean enough cuts for glue jointing. It takes very gppd technique to
>> never have small edge outs but it can be done.
>>
>> When I was doing lots of really big edge glued butcher block tops I
>> would rip all the maple very carefully. The I would only join the
>> pieces that showed and edge gaps when getting ready for glue up. I got
>> pretty good after a while.
>
> Here's a theoretical question. : )
> Supposed I planned to glue 12-15 8' planks of southern yellow pine 2by-lumber
> face-to-face to make a bench top. I have 15 pipe clamps. Should I expect to
> joint the faces in order to end up with a decent-looking benchtop?
>
> I'll surely make a mini-version for small table or something, to learn my
> lessons on the cheap.
>
> Lew put the idea above for this benchtop in my head a couple years ago and it's
> still there. No matter how the table ends up being built, at least the idea has
> been there to inspire me while I cut my teeth.

Except for two 8/4 x 3-1/2" pieces of Poplar (Maple probably would have been
better of course) face-glued together along the front side of my workbench
(where the dog-holes are drilled), that's exactly how my workbench is
constructed, and it works fine. Just get some nice straight-grained tubafours,
joint one face and one perpendicular edge, run the opposite face through the
planer, cut some biscuit slots in the faces to help with alignment during
glue-up and you're good to go. I'd make the boards longer than you need so you
can cut the planer snipe off the ends prior to glue-up.

I used 16 yellow pine two-by-fours, which after jointing and planing yields
about 21" of width, along with the two Poplar boards on front for a total of
about 24". As I recall, I glued them up in stages, maybe four at a time, until
I had two slabs of 8 boards each, then I ran each slab through the planer to
get the top and bottom faces relatively true, then glued those two slabs up to
make the final 21" slab. Some minor cleanup with the Bailey No. 7 hand plane
got the top surface true enough for a nice beater workbench.

Obviously not as nice as a full-blown Maple or Beech workbench, but if you're
like me the thing is going to get LOTS of abuse, so other than gaining some
extra durability by using hardwood I don't really see the need. I've beat the
crap out of this thing and it's held up just fine. Oh BTW, I DID make my tail
vise and front vise faces out of Maple though; I don't think Pine would be a
very good choice there.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 1/24/2012 12:20 PM, Steve Turner wrote:

> Except for two 8/4 x 3-1/2" pieces of Poplar (Maple probably would have
> been better of course) face-glued together along the front side of my
> workbench (where the dog-holes are drilled), that's exactly how my
> workbench is constructed, and it works fine.
<ship>


Thanks for sharing your experience! The Poplar or Maple trim is a nice
idea. I was intending to use breadboard ends as well.

I was wondering how the dog-holes would wear in "soft" wood. Does your
workbench have any?

Bill

On 1/24/2012 11:18 AM, Bill wrote:
...

> Some nice ideas there, Swing. Thank you. Your use of biscuits was a nice
> way to get the results you wanted....

Always w/ the swingman... :)

I'm partial to either routing or using the shaper and the glue joint
cutter or a tapered wedge for the alignment on larger stuff--then one
doesn't have to worry about trying to align the individual biscuits one
to another--there's a guide along the whole edge. And, as a side
benefit, there's the additional glue surface area (not that it really
will need it, but still...).

--

On 1/24/2012 12:28 PM, dpb wrote:
...

> I'm partial to either routing or using the shaper and the glue joint
> cutter or a tapered wedge for the alignment on larger stuff--...

Just in case not familiar...

<http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/903.html>
<http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/911.html>

--

On 1/24/2012 11:57 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 12:20 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>
>> Except for two 8/4 x 3-1/2" pieces of Poplar (Maple probably would have
>> been better of course) face-glued together along the front side of my
>> workbench (where the dog-holes are drilled), that's exactly how my
>> workbench is constructed, and it works fine.
> <ship>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience! The Poplar or Maple trim is a nice idea. I
> was intending to use breadboard ends as well.
>
> I was wondering how the dog-holes would wear in "soft" wood. Does your
> workbench have any?
>
> Bill

Yes, that's the reason I mentioned that it probably would have been a better
idea to use Maple instead of Poplar for the section along the front where the
dog holes are drilled. Poplar is quite soft for a "hard" wood, and the metal
springs in my Veritas bench dogs
(http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31127&cat=1,41637) have worn
grooves into the wood over time that makes it difficult to turn them to some
other orientation other than 90 degrees from the front of the bench (one of the
main advantages to having round vs. square dog holes; but I don't want to start
a war on that!). Maybe not a problem if you only plan to clamp squared lumber
to your bench, but I build lots of goofy things like rocking chairs so I
sometimes need to turn the bench dogs away from 90 degrees.

I also put breadboard ends on my bench, and I made those of Poplar too. No
issues there.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 1/24/2012 1:38 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 1/24/2012 12:28 PM, dpb wrote:
> ...
>
>> I'm partial to either routing or using the shaper and the glue joint
>> cutter or a tapered wedge for the alignment on larger stuff--...
>
> Just in case not familiar...
>
> <http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/903.html>
> <http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/911.html>
>
> --

Nice idea!

I bought mine from Woodworkers Supply and got it
the next day. I understand he ran into problems
getting materials($$$) and since he was trying to
run this as a "part time" business, I think he bit
off a little more than he could provide.

It's a great device and I have read from many others
that they loved it also.

He explains the process here: http://www.ts-aligner.com/reseller.asp

On 1/24/2012 11:16 AM, Larry wrote:

> Good luck with that... http://www.ts-aligner.com/reseller.asp
>
> I bought one a couple of years ago and damn near never got it.

In article <[email protected]>
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>
>Tommy Mac.... you have to understand Juersey to understand a word he
>says. ;~)

Strangest spelling I've ever seen for "Massachusetts."


http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/abouttommy.php

--
Drew Lawson So risk all or don't risk anything
You can lose all the same

Leon wrote:

> If a TS is set up properly with a good blade it can produce a smoother
> edge than the typical jointer.
>
> If you go by the rules the jointer is used on only two surfaces, to
> straighten the edge and flatten the face. The opposite edge is
> straightened by thee TS. The opposite surface is flattened by a planer.

Thank you for the reminder: That makes perfect sense. It wasn't always
that way! ; )



>
> Back the edge that a TS cuts, I seldom have to even sand the edge even
> if it is exposed.

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500, Bill<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> Anyone out
>>>>>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>>>>>
>>>>> Prolly 3/4 of the world and most of our ancestors, Bill.
>>>>
>>
>> Okay, I need to get going on my honing materials (strap/board). I need
>> to hone woodcarving gouges and plane irons. When I went shopping
>> online, I found I didn't understand the terminology (of leather). My
>> uncertainty had to do with whether the leather was of uniform thickness
>> or not. I would think leather between 1/8" and 3/16" thick seems right,
>> because of my presumption that if it is too thick, there is greater risk
>> of accidentally rounding the edge.
>
> Worry wart.
>
>
>> Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
>> (cows excluded)?
>
> Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
> 3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
> from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
> Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
> I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
> birch plywood.


Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
doesn't sound like the right stuff, so I'm going try my old belt which
is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
won't be an issue. - W.W.

As always, thank you for your support!

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:50:17 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500, Bill<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
>>>> (cows excluded)?
>>>
>>> Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
>>> 3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
>>> from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
>>> Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
>>> I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
>>> birch plywood.
>>
>>
>> Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
>> doesn't sound like the right stuff,
>
> Veg, brain, or chrome, it don't think it matters for a strop.
> http://tinyurl.com/7t699yn
>
>
>> so I'm going try my old belt which
>> is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
>> won't be an issue. - W.W.
>
> It will. I recommend against it, unless the back is smooth and can be
> charged.

Ratts! I was afraid of that.

>
>
>> As always, thank you for your support!
>
> That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers? ;)

I guess so, but I don't have $37.50 handy. ; )

>
> --
> The most powerful factors in the world are clear
> ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
> -- J. Arthur Thomson

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:50:17 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:55:52 -0500, Bill<[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/24/2012 7:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:32:57 -0500, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Can anyone recommend a suitable leather source/product for this purpose
>>>>>> (cows excluded)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tanned, 1" or wider is what I used. I think it was 10oz. 4-5mm or
>>>>> 3/16". http://tinyurl.com/7oabn8y I had bought scraps (5# for $5)
>>>>> from a carriage, chest, and harnessmaker back on the East coast.
>>>>> Glue the rough side down, smear some green on 'er, and hone away!
>>>>> I think mine's about 1-1/2" wide by 15" long on a piece of baltic
>>>>> birch plywood.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Larry, Thanks for the suggestion/link. The vegetable-tanned leather
>>>> doesn't sound like the right stuff,
>>>
>>> Veg, brain, or chrome, it don't think it matters for a strop.
>>> http://tinyurl.com/7t699yn
>>>
>>>
>>>> so I'm going try my old belt which
>>>> is a full 1/8" thick (too) and convenient. Hopefully, the embossing
>>>> won't be an issue. - W.W.
>>>
>>> It will. I recommend against it, unless the back is smooth and can be
>>> charged.
>>
>> Ratts! I was afraid of that.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> As always, thank you for your support!
>>>
>>> That'll be $37.50. Got my account numbers? ;)
>>
>> I guess so, but I don't have $37.50 handy. ; )
>
> I know. You have failed to pay any of the other tickies, either.
> I'll add it to your bill, Bill.

Thanks Larry, You are very kind!

In case anyone else is interested in building his or her own strop, I
ordered an 8-9 oz (leather is not perfectly uniform thickness, hence the
range), 8/64"-9/64" thick, 1 1/2" wide, 50" long, "Tandy" brand,
vegetable-tanned strap, for about $17.50 including S&H. Product is
available in alot of widths and from Amazon and E-bay.

It is merely my guess and hope that this item will be suitable for a
strop. The basis for my guess is that unembossed belts are considered
usable, and this is a "belt-blank". It's a carvable one at that, so I
anticipate that it will have the suitable firmness/pliability.

Wikipedia has some useful information about leather. Cheers!

Father Haskell wrote:
> On Jan 23, 7:08 pm, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
>> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
>> or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
>> #4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>
> Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
> luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
> Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
> as flat a surface.
>
>

Thanks for starting me on a saw blade/tooth lesson. I never did figure
out what ATBR stands for, for I learned it should produce good on
crosscut-miter cuts. Does this apply to ripping too? I know ripping and
crosscut saws are completely different.

Bill wrote:
> Father Haskell wrote:
>> On Jan 23, 7:08 pm, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I think I had some misconceptions about what a TS could do. I think I
>>> was expecting it could produce a decent edge for gluing. And I guess it
>>> can, but a jointer is evidently (much) better. Either I get a jointer
>>> or I learn to sharpen and use my Stanley planes (I've collected
>>> #4-5-6-7-8 and some 5 1/4's, and some for parts...lol). Anyone out
>>> there making furniture with no power jointer?
>>
>> Systimatic ATBR 50 tooth blade does fine. For more critical
>> luthiery work, I'll touch up the joints with a #5 or an LN block.
>> Haven't seen a jointer yet that can produce as smooth or
>> as flat a surface.
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for starting me on a saw blade/tooth lesson. I never did figure
> out what ATBR stands for, but I learned it should produce good on
> crosscut-miter cuts. Does this apply to ripping too? I know ripping and
> crosscut saws are completely different.

I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
My concern is academic, since I'm going to get my planes in shape, but
I'm still interested in learning what I can about blades.

On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
...

> I should have wrote [sic] (written) I know ripping and crosscut
> *blades* are different.
> And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
> the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
...

Well, what was he hawking then?

<http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=33825>

Or, more likely and to give the benefit of doubt, what _specifically_
was he speaking of in context of that "never"?

--

On 1/27/2012 10:34 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Bill wrote:

>> I should have wrote I know ripping and crosscut *blades* are different.
>> And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
>> the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
>
> If that is what Roland Johnson said he is ignorant.

To be fair, what he said is that "one should only rip with ripping
blades, only crosscut with cross-cutting blades, and *avoid* the
combination blades--it doesn't take that long to change blades."

I did order the dial indicator magnetic base system for setup and
testing, like he recommended. Grizzly got the sale.


>
> I used S0 tooth Systematic ATBR Combination blade for years with good
> results. I have been using a general purpose 40 tooth Forrest WWII for
> 12 years with GREAT results. Both blades for Both ripping, cross
> cutting, and compound miters.
>
>
>
>
>
>> My concern is academic, since I'm going to get my planes in shape, but
>> I'm still interested in learning what I can about blades.
>
> You will not be disappointed in a General purpose Forrest WWII 40 tooth
> blade.

Thank you, that is my impression from what I've read around here, by you
and others, and I'm sure I'll get one.

I'm looking forward to rasping out a strop this weekend. I looked at a
table that indicated Maple wasn't as much harder than White Oak or Red
Oak as I thought it was, so I'll pick up a 1by2 of oak tonight. I'm
embracing the challenge of try to rasp out one that shows craftsmanship.
It should be good practice. Fortunately, the 1x2 is sold in a 6'
length--so I can make several, if necessary, to achieve this! ; )

dpb wrote:
> On 1/26/2012 5:31 PM, Bill wrote:
> ...
>
>> I should have wrote [sic] (written) I know ripping and crosscut
>> *blades* are different.
>> And I know they have combination blades. Roland Johnson of FWW said, at
>> the WoodworkingShows, that one should never use those. : )
> ...
>
> Well, what was he hawking then?

He said, everyone with a TS needed a magnetic base dial
indicator--so i ordered one with hope of getting a TS soon. : )
I ordered the base recommended here with the flexible "neck" (G9625)
from Grizzly. Looking forward to use it to measure runout on my DP, and
I'll be ready if a new TS should appear this year.


>
> <http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=33825>
>
> Or, more likely and to give the benefit of doubt, what _specifically_
> was he speaking of in context of that "never"?
>
> --

Leon wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
> Anyone out there making
>> furniture with no power jointer?
>
> Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
> collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
> all.
>
> Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
> S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
> to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
> lumber with my track saw.

I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.

But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?

Leon wrote:
> On 1/29/2012 3:20 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2012 6:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> Anyone out there making
>>>> furniture with no power jointer?
>>>
>>> Yes, I had a jointer for years. I actually used it to take up space and
>>> collect dust. I got rid of it a few years ago and have not missed it at
>>> all.
>>>
>>> Now if I were buying a lot of rough cut lumber I would want it back but
>>> S2S lumber for me is just not expensive enough for me to want to go back
>>> to using a jointer and buying rough cut. I do however straighten S2S
>>> lumber with my track saw.
>>
>> I like your technique of "jointing" the edges with a track or table saw.
>>
>> But if you were to set a couple of your new S2S boards side-by-side, it
>> would not make for a flat surface, would it (just asking)?
>
>
> Yes they would. S2S boards have the top and bottom surfaces planed flat.
> There will be exceptions just like with some S4S which may no longer be
> flat or straight.

I think I brought home a 9' exception the other day. It looked pretty
good laying on its face in the store. But resting on an edge both ends
curve up. I'm going to cut it up anyway, so it will do fine. It was
nice to see these hardwoods at Menards though--Lowes only had Red Oak.
I'm sure when I pursue a furniture project, that I'll seek out a
lumberyard. I need to keep learning before I go so that I don't look
like a greenhorn! I had the whole lumber department to myself at
Menards. No SS's to keep a 12 foot beam of maple falling on me either!
; )


For the most part S2S will be consistent thickness but
> will be thinker that the size that it is sold as. Most often 4/4 S2S is
> 13/16" thick at my supplier so I plane it to the desired thickness,
> usually 3/4".
>
> Keep in mind it is more difficult to straighten an edge on a TS unless
> you use a sled, which I used to do. The rip fence is not long enough to
> address keeping the stock going in a straight line for longer boards.
> The track saw works much better in this case.

Good point. I didn't think of that. Thanks for the lesson!
If there's a theme here, it seems to be "be concerned about everything
that can go wrong".