I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
thanks in advance.
david
ps. the house was built in 1936 and the plaster is not on wood lathe, but
on strips of a 2' x 8' pressed material-- looks sort of like 1/2"
compressed cardboard-- that was nailed to the studs.
"David E. Penner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
> built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
> the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
> am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
> plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> david
>
> ps. the house was built in 1936 and the plaster is not on wood lathe, but
> on strips of a 2' x 8' pressed material-- looks sort of like 1/2"
> compressed cardboard-- that was nailed to the studs.
No matter how careful you are, you will still have to patch it. Use a (left
blade) circular saw with a blade designed to cut plaster/concrete. (most
dust) Or a sawzall (least dust).
Caution: Have someone hold a shop vac near the rear to collect most of the
dust. Houses built in that era frequently had asbestos fibers in the
plaster. Protect the other areas of the house from dust contamination.
Where protective clothing and a respirator. A simple dust mask will not
provide adequate protection.
Dave
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:07:52 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:
Ahhhh! Spoken from the days of time, art and satisfaction...........
A "loser's idea" all too often these days <G>
>So here's how I've done it: mark the outline of the opening with a pencil.
>Using *light* taps, score around the entire opening with a hammer and cold
>chisel. Repeat as necessary, scoring a little deeper each time, until you've
******************************************************************************************
WHY _ARE_ WE HERE?
Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:46:10 -0500, [email protected] (David E.
Penner) wrote:
>I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
>built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
>the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
>am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
>plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
>
>thanks in advance.
>
>david
>
>ps. the house was built in 1936 and the plaster is not on wood lathe, but
>on strips of a 2' x 8' pressed material-- looks sort of like 1/2"
>compressed cardboard-- that was nailed to the studs.
The last job that I did where I had to cut a bunch of clean holes in
plaster had the added difficulty of being in a room that was occupied.
I covered everything up with plastic throw away tarps and told the
customer not to worry.
The existing was pretty much as you describe - half inch plaster board
with brown and white on top.
I used a six inch plaster cutting blade in the Sawzall. The twelve
inch was too bendy.
I needed to penetrate the wall surface by about an inch, so as not to
get deep enough to worry about the wires that were inside, while still
allowing the blade to not be banging around on the surface during the
short part of the stroke.
I took a five gallon drywall bucket and jigsawed it so that there was
about three and a half inches of cylinder above the bottom.
I drilled a hole in the bottom that would allow the blade to run free
and drilled out the baseplate of the sawzall, so that I could screw
the plate to the bottom of the bucket.
I drilled another hole with a lockset bit (about 2-1/4"), above the
hole for the blade, and then taped on a piece of Visqueen to seal it.
I drilled a third hole below the one for the blade, big enough to hold
my six inch Maglite.
On the side of the cylinder I drilled a hole to receive the hose of my
shop vac.
The last step was to run some duct tape over the cut edge of the
cylinder, so that the whole mess would run smoothly over the plaster.
I drilled four holes in the plaster, on the corners, for the blade to
get started and outlined the cut with a chalkline, using that dayglo
pinkish chalk.
That sucker worked real good.
Note:
If you are going to do a real plaster patch, you should bevel your cut
when you are finished with the sawzall, so as to give a tapered line
to run you white coat to. This leaves you with a stronger patch line
and doesn't protrude like the shoemaker's job of mesh tape and drywall
mud.
I used drywall mud on these but added some plaster of paris, so as to
leave a harder finish and make the mud set up quicker.
Enjoy.
As always, YMMV.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
In article <[email protected]>, Prometheus <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:46:10 -0500, [email protected] (David E.
>Penner) wrote:
>
>>I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
>>built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
>>the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
>>am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
>>plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
>
>My personal favorite for the cleanest possible hole is to take a
>utility knife and score the paper and/or paint around the perimeter of
>the hole you're making, score lines from corner to corner, then tap
>the center of the hole *lightly* with a hammer to knock the whole
>thing loose. Once you've got the hole to cave in a little, you can
>get the blade of the utility knife into the crack, and cut the paper
>on the inside of the wall.
He has a *plaster* wall. Not drywall.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (David E. Penner) wrote:
>I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
>built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
>the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
>am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
>plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
Saws are messy. Power saws are *very* messy, and the vibration they produce
will damage the plaster.
Plaster walls are built in two layers: the inner rough plaster (browncoat) and
the finished surface (whitecoat). If you make a clean cut in the whitecoat,
you'll have a nice-looking opening, and it's not quite so important to make a
clean cut in the browncoat.
So here's how I've done it: mark the outline of the opening with a pencil.
Using *light* taps, score around the entire opening with a hammer and cold
chisel. Repeat as necessary, scoring a little deeper each time, until you've
cut all the way through the whitecoat. Now cut through the browncoat; best to
do this in a couple of stages. You can hit the chisel a little harder now, but
don't get carried away. When you've cut all the way through the browncoat,
*then* it's time to get out a saw, to cut through the lath. (The stuff you
have is still called "lath" [not 'lathe' - that's a tool] even though it isn't
wooden strips.) It takes a little practice, and a little patience. This is not
a fast method of making holes in plaster walls. But it is IMO the *best*
method: damage to the wall is minimized, and the dust generated is pretty much
confined to the area directly below the opening.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
David E. Penner wrote:
> Thanks everybody for your tips. I'm going to try the method Doug
> recommended first. the circular saw might be the fall back
>
> david
It should work well. (Hammer and chisel) I have lived in countries where
this was the method of choice. If it doesn't work for you I will be
surprised. As Doug said it is _not_ a fast method. Patience is a
necessary tool for this method. Did it myself a few times to add outlets
and switches and phone wire etc. A sharp chisel is good to mark the hole
outline -- especially if it is your first time.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
David E. Penner wrote:
> I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
> built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
> the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
> am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
> plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
Rotozip. Get the carbide cutters and make sure you have spares because
you'll likely break one or more. This is the sort of thing that it's made
for and nothing else I've tried works nearly as well for the purpose. Also
have a good vacuum with a HEPA or other fine-particle filter handy because
there's going to be a lot of very fine dust.
> thanks in advance.
>
> david
>
> ps. the house was built in 1936 and the plaster is not on wood lathe, but
> on strips of a 2' x 8' pressed material-- looks sort of like 1/2"
> compressed cardboard-- that was nailed to the studs.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Prometheus wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:46:10 -0500, [email protected] (David E.
> Penner) wrote:
>
>>I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
>>built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
>>the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
>>am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
>>plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
>
> My personal favorite for the cleanest possible hole is to take a
> utility knife and score the paper and/or paint around the perimeter of
> the hole you're making, score lines from corner to corner, then tap
> the center of the hole *lightly* with a hammer to knock the whole
> thing loose. Once you've got the hole to cave in a little, you can
> get the blade of the utility knife into the crack, and cut the paper
> on the inside of the wall.
Paper? On the inside of the wall? With _plaster_?
> Or if you're just trying to make a hole, and it doesn't need to be all
> that clean because it's going to be covered with a switchplate, or in
> your case, a cabinet, a reciprocating saw or a hand-held drywall saw
> works just fine as well.
You'll go through several hand-held drywall saws cutting a hole of any size
in plaster.
> But I never liked the roto-zip for any
> application, truth be told. Those little buggers are too prone to
> cutting wavy lines.
>
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
In article <[email protected]>,
Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> writes:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> A sharp chisel is good to mark the hole
>> outline -- especially if it is your first time.
>
> I'm going to have to try this method the next time I go excavating my
> walls - besides, now that I have my set of L-N chisels it should be a
> breeze.
Definitely save your Blue Chips for popping off old bathroom
tiles.
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (David E. Penner) wrote:
> I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
> built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
> the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
> am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
> plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> david
>
*sound of alarm bells*
Because Mr. Penner said:
>ps. the house was built in 1936
and the plaster--------- >>>>>is not on wood lathe, but on strips of a
2' x 8' pressed material<<<<<<<--
>looks sort of like 1/2" compressed cardboard-- that was nailed to the
studs.
Do not use anything that reciprocates. Certainly not a machine like a
sawzall. You get that wall flopping even the slightest bit, you'll do a
lot of damage. Hairline fissures will come to haunt you later. Cold
chisels and hammers scare me because they will also set up serious
vibrations.... in which case... if I absolutely HAD to I'd rather use a
regular VS jigsaw with a 'nail'blade. (Buy a pack) At least the wall is
captive between the shoe and the upwards cutting action of the blade,
minimizing any possible flopping action.
Screw a board to the wall to use as a fence. (Holes will fix up later)
Build a tent. http://www.zipwall.com (You can rent these all over the
place... like drywall outlets etc... I have put a shopvac hose under the
plastic wall and it created enough negative pressure to keep it a well
controlled area. (I also own a company which refinishes solid surface
countertops; I am familiar with dust control. <G>)
Use a circular saw along the fence. Cleaning up a little dust is a lot
less work than re-plastering....assuming you can find a plasterer these
days..
Hopefully you can work close to studs.
My 2 cents YMMV
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (David E. Penner) wrote:
>Thanks everybody for your tips. I'm going to try the method Doug
>recommended first. the circular saw might be the fall back
>
Make sure to let us know how it works out. And be sure to use a light touch
with the hammer and cold chisel.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
David E. Penner wrote:
> I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
> built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
> the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
> am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
> plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
Roto-Zip or circular saw, set depth to a hair more than the wall's
thickness. Maybe use one of those diamond impregnated blades (HF el
cheapo would be fine) to prevent "tear out" of plaster beyond what you
intend to trim out with the cabinet face.
Messy for sure, but probably the smoothest cut you'll get.
Sawz-all would be quick and dirty but... Might find a surprise lurking
in the wall and I'd also worry about tearing up the plaster too much.
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:46:10 -0500, [email protected] (David E.
Penner) wrote:
>I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
>built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
>the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
>am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
>plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
>
>thanks in advance.
>
>david
>
>ps. the house was built in 1936 and the plaster is not on wood lathe, but
>on strips of a 2' x 8' pressed material-- looks sort of like 1/2"
>compressed cardboard-- that was nailed to the studs.
I've done this with both a circular saw and a sawsall and my
preference would be the sawsall with a metal-cutting blade. The
circular saw is fast and efficient, but will spread dust to heck and
gone. The sawsall will still make a mess, but not a bad a one. Use a
metal-cutting blade because it will handle the abrasive plaster better
(you will probably still wear out a couple of them) and the fine teeth
won't grab as much and cause as much vibration in the rest of the
plaster, which would create a fresh set of problems.
Watch out for wires, etc. in the wall.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (David E. Penner) wrote:
> Anybody have any suggestions?
Ditto the circular saw to score the outline and then break up the
portion to be removed and pull it off in chunks. Dirty, dusty but is the
absolutely safest way to ensure that you won't crack the surrounding
plaster - also one of the easiest ways to cut a straight line. Haven't
tried a roto-tool but have failed at the sawzall route and then went to
the circsaw.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
> A sharp chisel is good to mark the hole
> outline -- especially if it is your first time.
I'm going to have to try this method the next time I go excavating my
walls - besides, now that I have my set of L-N chisels it should be a
breeze.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:46:10 -0500, [email protected] (David E.
Penner) wrote:
>I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
>built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
>the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
>am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
>plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?
My personal favorite for the cleanest possible hole is to take a
utility knife and score the paper and/or paint around the perimeter of
the hole you're making, score lines from corner to corner, then tap
the center of the hole *lightly* with a hammer to knock the whole
thing loose. Once you've got the hole to cave in a little, you can
get the blade of the utility knife into the crack, and cut the paper
on the inside of the wall.
Or if you're just trying to make a hole, and it doesn't need to be all
that clean because it's going to be covered with a switchplate, or in
your case, a cabinet, a reciprocating saw or a hand-held drywall saw
works just fine as well. But I never liked the roto-zip for any
application, truth be told. Those little buggers are too prone to
cutting wavy lines.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
<<I'm going to take out part of an inside plaster wall where I want to put a
built in cabinet. I'd would like to minimize any damage to the parts of
the wall I'm leaving in place. I've never had to do this in plaster, and
am unsure of what would be the best approach for cutting out the
plaster---rotozip? sawzall? Anybody have any suggestions?>>
I have one of these: http://www.makita.com/Cordless_Item_View.asp?id=248 ,
a 3 3/8" cordless circular saw with a very thin blade. It isn't great for a
lot of jobs but I have had decent success using it to cut a fairly clean
opening in a plaster wall.
Whatever method you chose, it is probably a good idea to score the outline
of the cut with multiple passes of a very sharp utility knife. Then you
could use a circular saw, chisel, just keep going with the knife or use some
combination of tools. One thing I would not recommend is a reciprocating
saw. It will cut through the plaster just fine but once it is through it
could catch on a piece of lath and twang it like a bass fiddle. That could
crack the plaster beyond the area you wish to cut out. If you need to
remove sections of wood lath from the opening, try cutting through one end
with a hacksaw (finer teeth = less chance of a snag). Once you have one end
free, it might be OK to risk cutting the other end with a reciprocating saw,
but the hacksaw is still probably a safer bet.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"