Avoid buying the small, cheap cast iron hold fasts. They break very easily. I
bought two, and both broke within a week. The vendor didn't argue when I
called to complain. They just refunded my money.
Since then, I bought a pair of handforged ones that are indestructible.
Unfortunately, the guy who made them did it as a one time thing, so you I can't
tell you where to get one like mine.
David
remove the key to email me.
"Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In rec.woodworking
> "Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I saw these recently at Rockler for $10.
> >
>
>http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/showdetl.cfm?offerings_id=5329&objectgroup_id=
330&catid=69
> >
> >Look at "F". Is that what you are looking for?
>
> Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
>
The problem is they are cast iron instead of steel. To me, that's a
problem. Think about the properties that make cast iron great for tool
tables. Stability, lack of elasticity. You will find that the iron ones
are one good whack from being two pieces of useless cast iron (DAMHIKT, and
yes, it was the Rockler variety). You don't have to get the Veritas type,
but I recommend you hold out for steel, even if you have to find a local
blacksmith.
Cheers,
Eric
In rec.woodworking
"Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I saw these recently at Rockler for $10.
>
>http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/showdetl.cfm?offerings_id=5329&objectgroup_id=330&catid=69
>
>Look at "F". Is that what you are looking for?
Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
In rec.woodworking
Yitah <[email protected]> wrote:
>Has anyone tried to make one out of wood?
>
>Although it would have to have a much heavier section at the top due
>to the different properties of wood, I can't imagine that one
>madenout of hickory wouldn't work.
I love making my own jigs and such but in that size, it is virtually
impossible to beat the strength of steel. Especially since you're changing
grain directions at a 90 degree bend. Plywood would take care of that and
may work but seems like a lot of trouble for something that can be had at
Harbor Freight for $2.
[email protected] (J Pagona aka Y.B.) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Avoid buying the small, cheap cast iron hold fasts. They break very easily. I
> bought two, and both broke within a week. The vendor didn't argue when I
> called to complain. They just refunded my money.
>
> Since then, I bought a pair of handforged ones that are indestructible.
> Unfortunately, the guy who made them did it as a one time thing, so you I can't
> tell you where to get one like mine.
Did you get yours from Tom Holloway? I know his son made some a
few years back, and the galoots seemed to be pleased with them.
As for the original question, I don't own any holdfasts. What I
use are little Jorgenson and Bessey clamps that I have doctored up so
I can slide the lower jaw off. I put the bar through a doghole and
slide the lower jaw back on under the benchtop. Tighten the clamp and
they'll hold almost anything.
Chuck Vance
>From: [email protected] (Conan the Librarian)
> Did you get yours from Tom Holloway? I know his son made some a
>few years back, and the galoots seemed to be pleased with them.
No, I got mine a year or two before Tom's son started making them. One of the
galoots brokered the deal, but I forget his name. As far as I know, Tom's son
may still be making them.
David
remove the key to email me.
In article <[email protected]>,
Bruce <[email protected]> wrote:
>Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a hammer
>cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
>screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I saw
>them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index sucks.
>
>
>
Harbor Freight has cheaply made ones for about $2 when on sale. Get a
bunch, every once in a while they will break.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
[email protected] (Bruce) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a hammer
> cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
> screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I saw
> them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index sucks.
Harbor Freight - how bad could they screw one of these up ;)
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Pretty bad. Totally wrong material.
Mine is steel - why is that the wrong material? It doesn't have to be
bleeding edge Rockwell 52 xyz moly titatium steel with unobtanium
coatings, it is just a hold down.
Dave Hall
>
> "David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (Bruce) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a
> hammer
> > > cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
> > > screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I
> saw
> > > them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index
> sucks.
> >
> > Harbor Freight - how bad could they screw one of these up ;)
>From: [email protected] (David Hall)
>Mine is steel - why is that the wrong material? It doesn't have to be
>bleeding edge Rockwell 52 xyz moly titatium steel with unobtanium
>coatings, it is just a hold down.
Steel is good. Cast iron is bad. Steel will flex. Cast iron is brittle. The
cheap holdfasts are cheap sandcastings. You get to understand this pretty
quickly when you tap on the top of the holdfast with a mallet, and the mallet
procedes all the way down to the benchtop, while a 5/8" thick x 10" long piece
of cast iron bounces off the floor 1/8" from your foot.
DAMHIKT.
David
remove the key to email me.
In rec.woodworking
[email protected] (J Pagona aka Y.B.) wrote:
>>From: [email protected] (David Hall)
>
>>Mine is steel - why is that the wrong material? It doesn't have to be
>>bleeding edge Rockwell 52 xyz moly titatium steel with unobtanium
>>coatings, it is just a hold down.
>
>Steel is good. Cast iron is bad. Steel will flex. Cast iron is brittle. The
>cheap holdfasts are cheap sandcastings. You get to understand this pretty
>quickly when you tap on the top of the holdfast with a mallet, and the mallet
>procedes all the way down to the benchtop, while a 5/8" thick x 10" long piece
>of cast iron bounces off the floor 1/8" from your foot.
Yep, one of mine that I just bought lasted one easy blow of the mallet.
What moron built these out of cast iron? You need spring properties for it
to work.
In rec.woodworking
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You get a lot of this kind of thing when you buy Chinese. They are big on
>the cast iron anvils too.
Yep, I'm bending some out of cold rolled steel in our machine shop. Then I
plan on heating one end and shaping the flat with a hammer and anvil, then
heating the whole thing cherry red and tossing in a bucket of oil. It'll
be good to go.
In rec.woodworking
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Now you've done it. The orders will come rolling in. :)
LOL! I'm not going into the blacksmith business :) These are for me only.
Now my 18 year old boy may be interested.
>"Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Yep, I'm bending some out of cold rolled steel in our machine shop. Then
>I
>> plan on heating one end and shaping the flat with a hammer and anvil, then
>> heating the whole thing cherry red and tossing in a bucket of oil. It'll
>> be good to go.
>>
>
>
Now you've done it. The orders will come rolling in. :)
"Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yep, I'm bending some out of cold rolled steel in our machine shop. Then
I
> plan on heating one end and shaping the flat with a hammer and anvil, then
> heating the whole thing cherry red and tossing in a bucket of oil. It'll
> be good to go.
>
Sure will. It sounds like this guy knows something about old blacksmith's
methods. The point of doing this is not to harden it, it is to impart a
black oxide coating that resists rust.
"Jim Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"heating
> the whole thing cherry red and tossing in a bucket of oil" won't do
> anything good for the tool.
Bruce wrote...
> Yep, I'm bending some out of cold rolled steel in our machine shop. Then I
> plan on heating one end and shaping the flat with a hammer and anvil, then
> heating the whole thing cherry red and tossing in a bucket of oil. It'll
> be good to go.
Since cold rolled steel has a carbon content below 0.2 percent, "heating
the whole thing cherry red and tossing in a bucket of oil" won't do
anything good for the tool. Since doing so would definitely pose some
hazards, you'd be better off to skip that bit.
I'll bet CRS is a fine material for the application, though.
Jim
CW wrote...
> Sure will. It sounds like this guy knows something about old blacksmith's
> methods. The point of doing this is not to harden it, it is to impart a
> black oxide coating that resists rust.
Well it certainly will impart a black coating, but IME that particular
coating does little to prevent rust. The oil alone does as much. I think
the coating you are speaking of is nothing more than a conglomeration of
scale and oil, and much of it is rather loosely adhered to the steel.
Bang it with a hammer and the crust flakes off easily, although there are
always some stubborn bits that remain behind. The same is true of
forge and mill scale without the oil.
This coating is nothing like very durable black oxide finishes that are
so often used on tooling. Unfortunately, the better ones require rather
noxious chemicals and are ill-suited to application in the home shop. The
"cold-bluing" methods, while not as durable as the hot methods, are
better suited for the occasional user.
If the OP's intent is to put a protective finish on the tool, he'll get
better results from one of these methods, or by cleaning it well and
applying a coat or two of good quality paint.
Jim
You get a lot of this kind of thing when you buy Chinese. They are big on
the cast iron anvils too.
"Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
You need spring properties for it
> to work.
Works. Used to do it a lot. Heck of a lot tougher and more protective than
the modern equivalent though not near as nice a finish.
"Jim Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote...
> > Sure will. It sounds like this guy knows something about old
blacksmith's
> > methods. The point of doing this is not to harden it, it is to impart a
> > black oxide coating that resists rust.
>
> Well it certainly will impart a black coating, but IME that particular
> coating does little to prevent rust. The oil alone does as much. I think
> the coating you are speaking of is nothing more than a conglomeration of
> scale and oil, and much of it is rather loosely adhered to the steel.
> Bang it with a hammer and the crust flakes off easily, although there are
> always some stubborn bits that remain behind. The same is true of
> forge and mill scale without the oil.
>
> This coating is nothing like very durable black oxide finishes that are
> so often used on tooling. Unfortunately, the better ones require rather
> noxious chemicals and are ill-suited to application in the home shop. The
> "cold-bluing" methods, while not as durable as the hot methods, are
> better suited for the occasional user.
>
> If the OP's intent is to put a protective finish on the tool, he'll get
> better results from one of these methods, or by cleaning it well and
> applying a coat or two of good quality paint.
>
> Jim
I saw these recently at Rockler for $10.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/showdetl.cfm?offerings_id=5329&objectgroup_id=330&catid=69
Look at "F". Is that what you are looking for?
"Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a hammer
> cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
> screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I saw
> them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index sucks.
>
>
>
You sure its steel? The ones they advertise now are cast iron.
"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Pretty bad. Totally wrong material.
>
> Mine is steel - why is that the wrong material? It doesn't have to be
> bleeding edge Rockwell 52 xyz moly titatium steel with unobtanium
> coatings, it is just a hold down.
>
> Dave Hall
>
> >
> > "David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > [email protected] (Bruce) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a
> > hammer
> > > > cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an
adjusting
> > > > screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought
I
> > saw
> > > > them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index
> > sucks.
> > >
> > > Harbor Freight - how bad could they screw one of these up ;)
>You sure its steel? The ones they advertise now are cast iron.
>
Can't say as I tested it, but it is a hard metal, it has been used for a couple
of years, it has been beat on harder than is ever necessary for a hold-down (my
bad) and it seems none the worse for wear. I guess that they could make the
damn things so cheaply that they actually break in normal use, though, but that
has not been my experience. I thnk I paid about $2 on sale.
Dave Hall
>"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> > Pretty bad. Totally wrong material.
>>
>> Mine is steel - why is that the wrong material? It doesn't have to be
>> bleeding edge Rockwell 52 xyz moly titatium steel with unobtanium
>> coatings, it is just a hold down.
>>
>> Dave Hall
May be they sold some steel ones at one time but the ones now are cast iron.
Not even worth $2.00.
"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >You sure its steel? The ones they advertise now are cast iron.
> >
> Can't say as I tested it, but it is a hard metal, it has been used for a
couple
> of years, it has been beat on harder than is ever necessary for a
hold-down (my
> bad) and it seems none the worse for wear. I guess that they could make
the
> damn things so cheaply that they actually break in normal use, though, but
that
> has not been my experience. I thnk I paid about $2 on sale.
>
> Dave Hall
> >"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:<[email protected]>...
> >> > Pretty bad. Totally wrong material.
> >>
> >> Mine is steel - why is that the wrong material? It doesn't have to be
> >> bleeding edge Rockwell 52 xyz moly titatium steel with unobtanium
> >> coatings, it is just a hold down.
> >>
> >> Dave Hall
>
Bruce said:
>Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a hammer
>cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
>screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I saw
>them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index sucks.
This one perhaps?
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/product.asp?0=324&1=341&3=3778
Greg G.
In article <[email protected]>,
Eric Lund <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Bruce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In rec.woodworking
>> "Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I saw these recently at Rockler for $10.
>> >
>>
>>http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/showdetl.cfm?offerings_id=5329&objectgroup_id=
>330&catid=69
>> >
>> >Look at "F". Is that what you are looking for?
>>
>> Exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
>>
>
>The problem is they are cast iron instead of steel. To me, that's a
>problem. Think about the properties that make cast iron great for tool
>tables. Stability, lack of elasticity. You will find that the iron ones
>are one good whack from being two pieces of useless cast iron (DAMHIKT, and
>yes, it was the Rockler variety). You don't have to get the Veritas type,
>but I recommend you hold out for steel, even if you have to find a local
>blacksmith.
>
>Cheers,
>Eric
>
>
Everything Eric said, I've bought some of the cast iron ones and they
DO break. Besides, if you do choose to buy them anyway, do not spend
$10 with Rockler when the exact same item cost $2 at HF.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:38:43 -0500, Yitah <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Has anyone tried to make one out of wood?
>
>Although it would have to have a much heavier section at the top due
>to the different properties of wood, I can't imagine that one
>madenout of hickory wouldn't work.
>
>Y
seems like something to be carved from a crotch stick rather than
milled from dressed lumber...
Bridger
Has anyone tried to make one out of wood?
Although it would have to have a much heavier section at the top due
to the different properties of wood, I can't imagine that one
madenout of hickory wouldn't work.
Y
On 20 Jan 2004 13:42:58 -0800, [email protected] (David Hall)
wrote:
>[email protected] (Bruce) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a hammer
>> cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
>> screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I saw
>> them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index sucks.
>
>Harbor Freight - how bad could they screw one of these up ;)
Pretty bad. Totally wrong material.
"David Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Bruce) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Anyone know where to get the iron hold downs that you tap in with a
hammer
> > cheap? I don't want the $70 (Good Lord!!) ones that have an adjusting
> > screw on them, just a piece of iron bent into an L shape. I thought I
saw
> > them in the Grizzly catalog but I cant find them now and the index
sucks.
>
> Harbor Freight - how bad could they screw one of these up ;)
Yitah <[email protected]> writes:
> Has anyone tried to make one out of wood?
>
Yes, two weeks ago.
> Although it would have to have a much heavier section at the top due
> to the different properties of wood, I can't imagine that one
> madenout of hickory wouldn't work.
Mine has a beech stem and a plywood top part, which is like a cam
action clamp, so that you not only have the usual holddown feature but
additionaly you can increase the clamping force with the lever. It
works, but due to a not-so-well designed lever not too good. I still
have to figure out the best curvature for the lever, so that it stays
put in any position and gives maximum travel.
Pictures follow if/when I get a digital camera.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23