Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote in
news:36589830-2eac-4945-933f-cbd18bf95641@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> Bad idea. Some people ignore postings from google gropus because of
>> the spam.
>>
>> And you can't have kill files. And it's hard to just read new
>> articles (since last time you read them). And it's slower as a GUI.
>
> It may be 'slower' but it is a lot faster than I can read and write.
>
> It is trivial to use, follows threads accross multiple groups
> searches back to the earliest days of UseNet, you don't have
> to subscribe to individual newsgroups, and you can use it on
> any machine with web access.
>
> The absence of a kill file is its greatest weakness, IMHO.
>
> --
>
> FF
I've used Google Groups a bit, and have not been impressed. Everything's
so much easier through a real newsreader. Plus, I have a kill file. (It
matches regular expressions, too, so I get some practice.)
My ISP recently "switched to Google" or "Offloaded a bunch of stuff to
Google so they can make more profit." One of the things to go was NNTP
access. So now, I'm paying for Usenet NNTP access.
I do switch to Google Groups when I want to search for messages. One
thing Google excells at is, of course, search.
Puckdropper
--
Marching to the beat of a different drum is great... unless you're in
marching band.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On Mar 6, 6:10 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> writes:
> > ok, thanks for the replys.... I found how to acess it through the web
> > (google groups) DUH!
>
> Bad idea. Some people ignore postings from google gropus because of the spam.
>
> And you can't have kill files. And it's hard to just read new articles
> (since last time you read them). And it's slower as a GUI.
If you use Firefox, there is an add-in called Greasemonkey that uses a
script file called "Google Groups Killfile" which allows for basic
killfile functionality. It basically takes the fully rendered page and
hides the stuff that matches the entries in the killfine script. It's
not perfect, but it works well enough for me.
-Nathan
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> SHOPDOG wrote:
>> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where
>> outlook express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the
>> newsgroups there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> SD
>>
>>
> I got a low end Compaq laptop that came with Vista Basic. It had 512MB
> of memory wich is fine after I put XP on it, but wasa about 1.5GB short
> for Vista. I ended up putting Ubuntu 7.10 on it with vmware for running
> Windows XP. I also upgraded the memory from .5GB to 2GB from
> Crucial.com for about $79.
>
> As for a news client, Thunderbird works fine under Linux and Windows (XP
> or Vista).
Great quote from Robert Cringely: "Microsoft finally figured out how to
get respect for one of its operating systems: release a new one that sucks
harder than the last one"
/happy user of OpenSuse and amazed at how much faster it runs than Windows.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
On Mar 6, 7:44 pm, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > It may be 'slower' but it is a lot faster than I can read and write.
>
> It's up to you. But I once timed google groups, and it took me TEN
> TIMES LONGER to read the same amount of articles than with a dedicated
> news reader.
I don't see how that could be, but then again I don;t know
how you were using either or what your interests were.
--
FF
On Mar 6, 6:10 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> writes:
> > ok, thanks for the replys.... I found how to acess it through the web
> > (google groups) DUH!
>
> Bad idea. Some people ignore postings from google gropus because of the spam.
>
> And you can't have kill files. And it's hard to just read new articles
> (since last time you read them). And it's slower as a GUI.
It may be 'slower' but it is a lot faster than I can read and write.
It is trivial to use, follows threads accross multiple groups
searches back to the earliest days of UseNet, you don't have
to subscribe to individual newsgroups, and you can use it on
any machine with web access.
The absence of a kill file is its greatest weakness, IMHO.
--
FF
On Mar 6, 7:43 am, N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 6:10 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> writes:
> > > ok, thanks for the replys.... I found how to acess it through the web
> > > (google groups) DUH!
>
> > Bad idea. Some people ignore postings from google gropus because of the spam.
>
> > And you can't have kill files. And it's hard to just read new articles
> > (since last time you read them). And it's slower as a GUI.
>
> If you use Firefox, there is an add-in called Greasemonkey that uses a
> script file called "Google Groups Killfile" which allows for basic
> killfile functionality. It basically takes the fully rendered page and
> hides the stuff that matches the entries in the killfine script. It's
> not perfect, but it works well enough for me.
>
Way cool!
Thanks!
--
FF
I never upgrade operating systems until the latest and greatest has been out
for 6 months or so and Microsoft has come out with at least one service pack
upgrade. None of their products are worth using until they have come out
with at least the first round of fixes for them.
98 was worthless until 98 2nd Edition came out and XP had all kinds of
quirks until XP Service Pack 1 fixed them. I'll be using XP for about
another year or so before I even consider using Vista. This holds true for
many other software vendors products as well. They all release their stuff
before it works properly and then expect their customers to help them fix
it. I'll just wait till it works and all the printer and peripheral drivers
are available.
Charley
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3e66a75b-a970-4505-827f-f554e2802284@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 6, 7:43 am, N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Mar 6, 6:10 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> writes:
> > > > ok, thanks for the replys.... I found how to acess it through the
web
> > > > (google groups) DUH!
> >
> > > Bad idea. Some people ignore postings from google gropus because of
the spam.
> >
> > > And you can't have kill files. And it's hard to just read new articles
> > > (since last time you read them). And it's slower as a GUI.
> >
> > If you use Firefox, there is an add-in called Greasemonkey that uses a
> > script file called "Google Groups Killfile" which allows for basic
> > killfile functionality. It basically takes the fully rendered page and
> > hides the stuff that matches the entries in the killfine script. It's
> > not perfect, but it works well enough for me.
> >
>
> Way cool!
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
> FF
>
>
I didn't even know that there was a SP1 for Vista yet. It's still way too
soon to adopt it, in my opinion. I'll stick with XP Pro and it's fixes. It's
working quite well for me right now so I have no desire to open a new can of
worms.
Charley
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Charley" wrote in message
> > I never upgrade operating systems until the latest and greatest has been
> out
> > for 6 months or so and Microsoft has come out with at least one service
> pack
> > upgrade. None of their products are worth using until they have come out
> > with at least the first round of fixes for them.
>
> I use whatever OS/OS version will run my software needs most reliably ...
> IMO, it's the only smart way to chose/upgrade an operating system, server
or
> workstation, regardless of version. AAMOF, until last year I still had
four
> DNS servers running NT4 because that was the only thing an older version
of
> BIND, for which we wrote our custom DNS software, would reliably run on.
>
> With MSFT these days, a service pack is mostly a collection of previously
> issued/pushed fixes. IME, an _individual_ can miss out on some advanced
> computing, particularly in the area of security, by being too rigid on
when
> you upgrade (all bets are off if you must support a large company of
> servers/workstations).
>
> A good example is Vista ... most, if not all, of the "performance and
> reliability fixes" had already been pushed well in advance of SP1. AAMOF,
> those who have installed Vista SP1 as of the last couple of days report
> seeing no improvements in this area whatsoever.
>
> Just my tuppence ...
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/14/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>
If I recall correctly, the original question dealt with using Windows
Mail, in Vista, to access these newsgroups. I'm doing just that,
right now: Have been since I got this new computer a few days
before Christmas. I suppose I could use Microsoft Outlook, in
fact I did for a week or so, but for whatever reasons I decided
I preferred the simplicity of Windows Mail.
This computer is sitting next to a 7-year-old computer that is
currently running Windows XP with SP2. Both work well, but
the new machine has 4 times the memory and three times the
speed and, frankly, it's now my favorite. I got used to the look
and feel of Vista (not that much different from XP) and have
no problems with either system.
YMMV
Jim Stuyck
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Charley" wrote
>> I didn't even know that there was a SP1 for Vista yet. It's still way too
>> soon to adopt it, in my opinion. I'll stick with XP Pro and it's fixes.
> It's
>> working quite well for me right now so I have no desire to open a new can
> of
>> worms.
>
> Don't blame you ... IIRC, SP1 "Final" for Vista was sent to manufacturing
> in
> early to mid February, but many already have it, including those SP1 beta
> testers for various parts of the OS. (I was involved in testing the USB
> "ReadyBoost" feature and had the opportunity to download the final a
> couple
> of weeks back, but didn't bother).
>
> I'll wait until SP1 is pushed out on Windows Update, since I have no
> problems whatsoever with Vista at this point due to the "performance and
> reliability" fixes already installed.
>
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/14/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>
>
On Mar 6, 11:29 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>
> A friend of mine who was a PhD physicist and big fan of Ursula K.
> Leguin would drop "So it goes" into the conversation at every
> opportunity. There were times when I wanted to strangle him.
>
I thought that originated with "Slaughtehouse Five" by
Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
--
FF
"SHOPDOG" wrote in message
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook
> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
You can add newsgroup accounts to "Windows Mail" from the top menu bar by
simply clicking on TOOL|ACCOUNTS|ADD| and choosing "Newsgroup Account", then
entering your server and login information.
With Vista, you might want to go with "Windows Live Mail", which is more
like (almost) Outlook Express than "Windows' Mail", although both appear to
be designed by the dumbshit generation that thinks whiz/bang/flash is more
important than basic functionality.
FWIW, I'm not a Vista basher, have been running it on my laptop for about a
year, and thoroughly enjoy the OS, its security benefits, and its basic
Internet functionality...
... however, that does not in any way excuse the fact that MSFT, which
always based its hiring practices on "youth", did not take into account the
increasing lack of maturity of the subsequent programmer generation.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lee Michaels" wrote
>
>> "Swingman" wrote
>> >
>> > AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by
> all
>> > the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
>> > involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
>> >
>> Reminds me of John Denver on the tonight show. His favorite phrase was,
>> "far out!" They would count how many times he uttered that phrase during
> the
>> times he hosted the show. I don't remember the number, but it was far
> beyond
>> what any normal human being needed to use during any kind of rational,
>> intelligent conversation.
>
> I have a dear musician friend who delivered the eulogy for her deceased
> musician brother, also a dear friend.
>
> Another studio owner/musician friend and I teamed up to record the entire
> service because of the three hundred musicians who showed up to perform a
> song my wife wrote called "Let Him Go Gently" (She later recorded the song
> for an album with Ray Wiley Hubbard, and they latter sang it at Townes Van
> Zandt's funeral at the request of the family).
>
> Point is, I was to do the editing for a master tape of the service. I
> deleted over 200 "you knows" from a 20 minute eulogy, BEFORE the advent of
> digital editing, using a razor blade and splicing block!
>
> I don't think the poor girl is even aware of that fact to this day.
You removed 1/3 or the eulogy? ;~)
"Charley" wrote
> I didn't even know that there was a SP1 for Vista yet. It's still way too
> soon to adopt it, in my opinion. I'll stick with XP Pro and it's fixes.
It's
> working quite well for me right now so I have no desire to open a new can
of
> worms.
Don't blame you ... IIRC, SP1 "Final" for Vista was sent to manufacturing in
early to mid February, but many already have it, including those SP1 beta
testers for various parts of the OS. (I was involved in testing the USB
"ReadyBoost" feature and had the opportunity to download the final a couple
of weeks back, but didn't bother).
I'll wait until SP1 is pushed out on Windows Update, since I have no
problems whatsoever with Vista at this point due to the "performance and
reliability" fixes already installed.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Mar 5, 9:55=A0pm, "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook=
> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>
> Thanks
>
> SD
I have a Mac, as a result, I have no opinion. None. About anything.
On Mar 11, 8:50 pm, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 10, 7:43 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > > > > How quickly can you read 10 new postings in 10 new threads?
> > > > > By this I
> > > > > mean the first 30 lines of each posting?
>
> > > > I don't see the relevance of the question. I
> > > > don't display any lines in any articles unless the
> > > > subject of the thread looks interesting.
>
> > > So assume the subject does look interesting.
>
> > > The subject line for this thread has nothing to do with the topic.
>
> > Well that's the same with any newsreader too, right?
>
> Yes. Which is why I made this point. I didn't want to include the case
> where the subject line is used to skip over the article. I have
> killfiles that automatically skip over some topics. It takes me zero
> time to do this, and I did not want to include this in the comparison
> of a newsrerader vs. googlegroups.
>
The lack of a decent kill file is a huge drawback to
google groups. No doubt about that.
--
FF
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
> > > It may be 'slower' but it is a lot faster than I can read and write.
> >
> > It's up to you. But I once timed google groups, and it took me TEN
> > TIMES LONGER to read the same amount of articles than with a dedicated
> > news reader.
>
> I don't see how that could be, but then again I don;t know
> how you were using either or what your interests were.
How quickly can you read 10 new postings in 10 new threads? By this I
mean the first 30 lines of each posting? Or - (as it's the same to
me) to read just the 30 new postings that occured that day?
Don't count replying. Don't count taking notes, or postings that
require thought. Think about as if the article contains information
that when you look at it, you have no interest in, but you don't know
until you read the first few lines.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> writes:
> "Swingman" wrote
> >
> > AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by all
> > the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
> > involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
> >
> Reminds me of John Denver on the tonight show. His favorite phrase was,
> "far out!" They would count how many times he uttered that phrase during the
> times he hosted the show. I don't remember the number, but it was far beyond
> what any normal human being needed to use during any kind of rational,
> intelligent conversation.
Was it a drinking game? Or perhaps a toking game?
"SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> writes:
> ok, thanks for the replys.... I found how to acess it through the web
> (google groups) DUH!
Bad idea. Some people ignore postings from google gropus because of the spam.
And you can't have kill files. And it's hard to just read new articles
(since last time you read them). And it's slower as a GUI.
N Hurst <[email protected]> writes:
> If you use Firefox, there is an add-in called Greasemonkey that uses a
> script file called "Google Groups Killfile" which allows for basic
> killfile functionality. It basically takes the fully rendered page and
> hides the stuff that matches the entries in the killfine script. It's
> not perfect, but it works well enough for me.
Cool.....
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
> > How quickly can you read 10 new postings in 10 new threads?
> > By this I
> > mean the first 30 lines of each posting?
>
> I don't see the relevance of the question. I
> don't display any lines in any articles unless the
> subject of the thread looks interesting.
So assume the subject does look interesting.
The subject line for this thread has nothing to do with the topic.
> > Don't count replying. Don't count taking notes, or postings that
> > require thought. Think about as if the article contains information
> > that when you look at it, you have no interest in, but you don't know
> > until you read the first few lines.
>
> If the subject line doesn't look to be interesting I don't display
> the first few lines, much less the whole thread.
>
> When I do display a thread, that I have already partially read,
> I sort it by date and then quickly scroll down to the new
> articles.
And how long does that take you each time you do it? You have to
click on the subject line. Click on the Sort-By-Date, and scroll/click
to the one you want to read.
And then click back to the index of threads, so you can do the next one.
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
> It may be 'slower' but it is a lot faster than I can read and write.
It's up to you. But I once timed google groups, and it took me TEN
TIMES LONGER to read the same amount of articles than with a dedicated
news reader.
"SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> writes:
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook
> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
Mail reading software is designed to read mail.
Same goes for USENET/NNTP readers.
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
> On Mar 10, 7:43 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > > > How quickly can you read 10 new postings in 10 new threads?
> > > > By this I
> > > > mean the first 30 lines of each posting?
> >
> > > I don't see the relevance of the question. I
> > > don't display any lines in any articles unless the
> > > subject of the thread looks interesting.
> >
> > So assume the subject does look interesting.
> >
> > The subject line for this thread has nothing to do with the topic.
>
> Well that's the same with any newsreader too, right?
Yes. Which is why I made this point. I didn't want to include the case
where the subject line is used to skip over the article. I have
killfiles that automatically skip over some topics. It takes me zero
time to do this, and I did not want to include this in the comparison
of a newsrerader vs. googlegroups.
> > > When I do display a thread, that I have already partially read,
> > > I sort it by date and then quickly scroll down to the new
> > > articles.
> >
> > And how long does that take you each time you do it? You have to
> > click on the subject line. Click on the Sort-By-Date,
>
> That is done so fast I can't conveniently time it. Let's say
> one second.
>
> I actually open each thread that looks interesting in it's own tab,
> before reading any. So it may take 5 seconds or so to open
> 10 threads in ten tabs.
>
> > and scroll/click
> > to the one you want to read.
> >
>
> It takes about a second or so to get the sorted list, and then
> how long it takes to get to the articles depends on the
> length of the thread. It can be cumbersome for threads with
> more than a hundred articles, but if I log in there is also a 'new'
> that goes directly to the first unread article in the thread.
I timed it and it took up to 1-2 seconds to render some of the pages on
a cable modem. If I clicked the sort-by-date, it also takes another
1-2 seconds to refresh. Add the open/close tab and scrolling, and it
looks like it can be 5 seconds for the eye to locate the beginning of
each new article.
The use of "parallel tabs" is a good idea. I didn't have that option
when I times it. I can see that helps speed things up. Thanks for
sharing it. It makes some of the render time overlap, but you still
need the sort-by-date, and need to close and open the tabs.
But according to these numbers, looking at 10 new articles will take
about 25-50 seconds.
> By comparison, newsreaders I have used are slow and kludgy.
> I may have had slow newsfeeds.
Could be.
I can read/skim 10 new articles in about 5 seconds. I don't use a
mouse. The news reader loads the first new article, and displays the
first 20-30 lines (I use a large font - old eyes). I press "n" and it
goes to the next new article. If I want to scroll down, and read the
entire article, I press " " instead. So if I see 10 articles that
don't look interesting, I can skip over them fast - and still see each
new article.
Studying, thinking, archiving, replying, killfileing, etc. take longer
of course. But just skimming articles is very fast.
On Mar 8, 6:38 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > > > It may be 'slower' but it is a lot faster than I can read and write.
>
> > > It's up to you. But I once timed google groups, and it took me TEN
> > > TIMES LONGER to read the same amount of articles than with a dedicated
> > > news reader.
>
> > I don't see how that could be, but then again I don;t know
> > how you were using either or what your interests were.
>
> How quickly can you read 10 new postings in 10 new threads?
> By this I
> mean the first 30 lines of each posting?
I don't see the relevance of the question. I
don't display any lines in any articles unless the
subject of the thread looks interesting.
> Or - (as it's the same to
> me) to read just the 30 new postings that occured that day?
>
> Don't count replying. Don't count taking notes, or postings that
> require thought. Think about as if the article contains information
> that when you look at it, you have no interest in, but you don't know
> until you read the first few lines.
If the subject line doesn't look to be interesting I don't display
the first few lines, much less the whole thread.
When I do display a thread, that I have already partially read,
I sort it by date and then quickly scroll down to the new
articles.
--
FF
"Lee Michaels" wrote
> "Swingman" wrote
> >
> > AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by
all
> > the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
> > involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
> >
> Reminds me of John Denver on the tonight show. His favorite phrase was,
> "far out!" They would count how many times he uttered that phrase during
the
> times he hosted the show. I don't remember the number, but it was far
beyond
> what any normal human being needed to use during any kind of rational,
> intelligent conversation.
I have a dear musician friend who delivered the eulogy for her deceased
musician brother, also a dear friend.
Another studio owner/musician friend and I teamed up to record the entire
service because of the three hundred musicians who showed up to perform a
song my wife wrote called "Let Him Go Gently" (She later recorded the song
for an album with Ray Wiley Hubbard, and they latter sang it at Townes Van
Zandt's funeral at the request of the family).
Point is, I was to do the editing for a master tape of the service. I
deleted over 200 "you knows" from a 20 minute eulogy, BEFORE the advent of
digital editing, using a razor blade and splicing block!
I don't think the poor girl is even aware of that fact to this day.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
SHOPDOG wrote:
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook
> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>
> Thanks
>
> SD
>
>
See:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA102166861033.aspx
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>
> Well like you know that is the way we like are suppose to speak these
> days. Like "My Bad" is seriously cool like those prison bitch britches
> every one is like wearing. Totally!
Chill, Dude!
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jim Behning" wrote
>
>> I visit the Microsoft campus every year for the past 3 or 4 years.
>
> First, and only, visit to MSFT was in 1994, which was notable, in
> retrospect, for the response to _every_ query being the apparent buzz word
> of their culture:
>
> "Absolutely!"
>
> AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by all
> the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
> involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
>
>> (tail end of boomers) some are great, some are just
>> MS youth that grew old.
>
> Priceless! :)
Sup! Broghameniean?
Well like you know that is the way we like are suppose to speak these days.
Like "My Bad" is seriously cool like those prison bitch britches every one
is like wearing. Totally!
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Doug Winterburn wrote:
>
>> SHOPDOG wrote:
>>> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where
>>> outlook express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the
>>> newsgroups there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> SD
>>>
>>>
>> I got a low end Compaq laptop that came with Vista Basic. It had 512MB
>> of memory wich is fine after I put XP on it, but wasa about 1.5GB short
>> for Vista. I ended up putting Ubuntu 7.10 on it with vmware for running
>> Windows XP. I also upgraded the memory from .5GB to 2GB from
>> Crucial.com for about $79.
>>
>> As for a news client, Thunderbird works fine under Linux and Windows (XP
>> or Vista).
>
> Great quote from Robert Cringely: "Microsoft finally figured out how to
> get respect for one of its operating systems: release a new one that sucks
> harder than the last one"
>
> /happy user of OpenSuse and amazed at how much faster it runs than Windows.
>
Ain't it the truth! Using vmware server under Ubuntu on my desktop with
2.5GB, I also run Fedora, Win2K, WinXP and Solaris 10 simultaneously.
That combo runs faster and takes less ram than Vista, not to mention
supports all my old peripherals.
"Jim Behning" wrote
> I visit the Microsoft campus every year for the past 3 or 4 years.
First, and only, visit to MSFT was in 1994, which was notable, in
retrospect, for the response to _every_ query being the apparent buzz word
of their culture:
"Absolutely!"
AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by all
the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
> (tail end of boomers) some are great, some are just
> MS youth that grew old.
Priceless! :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"PDQ" wrote in message.
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
>> Windows Live is a service, not a client.
> Thanks for the correction.
> Thanks for the update
Unfortunately, he's totally wrong. "Windows Live Mail" is indeed a desktop
mail "CLIENT" and is MSFT's latest replacement for Outlook Express and can
be run on both Vista and Windows XP/SP2
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=BA346005-45F6-4D14-A7DC-51E13D11A950&displaylang=en
"Windows Mail" is more or less the crippled mail client that ships with
Vista only.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:_2Jzj.11081$1_.645@trnddc02:
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where
> outlook express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the
> newsgroups there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the
> group?
>
> Thanks
>
> SD
>
My Xnews works just fine under Vista home basic. Free, does yenc, etc.
does both binaries and text.
Maybe there is a bit of a learning curve, but I tried several other readers
(not all by far), and Xnews is it for me.
also see news:news.software.readers
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Charley" wrote in message
> I never upgrade operating systems until the latest and greatest has been
out
> for 6 months or so and Microsoft has come out with at least one service
pack
> upgrade. None of their products are worth using until they have come out
> with at least the first round of fixes for them.
I use whatever OS/OS version will run my software needs most reliably ...
IMO, it's the only smart way to chose/upgrade an operating system, server or
workstation, regardless of version. AAMOF, until last year I still had four
DNS servers running NT4 because that was the only thing an older version of
BIND, for which we wrote our custom DNS software, would reliably run on.
With MSFT these days, a service pack is mostly a collection of previously
issued/pushed fixes. IME, an _individual_ can miss out on some advanced
computing, particularly in the area of security, by being too rigid on when
you upgrade (all bets are off if you must support a large company of
servers/workstations).
A good example is Vista ... most, if not all, of the "performance and
reliability fixes" had already been pushed well in advance of SP1. AAMOF,
those who have installed Vista SP1 as of the last couple of days report
seeing no improvements in this area whatsoever.
Just my tuppence ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" wrote
>
> AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by all
> the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
> involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
>
Reminds me of John Denver on the tonight show. His favorite phrase was,
"far out!" They would count how many times he uttered that phrase during the
times he hosted the show. I don't remember the number, but it was far beyond
what any normal human being needed to use during any kind of rational,
intelligent conversation.
On Mar 6, 2:22=A0pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "PDQ" =A0wrote in message.
> "J. Clarke" wrote in message
> >> Windows Live is a service, not a client.
> > Thanks for the correction.
> > Thanks for the update
>
> Unfortunately, he's totally wrong.
Uh-oh.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:35:40 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"SHOPDOG" wrote in message
>> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook
>> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
>> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>
>You can add newsgroup accounts to "Windows Mail" from the top menu bar by
>simply clicking on TOOL|ACCOUNTS|ADD| and choosing "Newsgroup Account", then
>entering your server and login information.
>
>With Vista, you might want to go with "Windows Live Mail", which is more
>like (almost) Outlook Express than "Windows' Mail", although both appear to
>be designed by the dumbshit generation that thinks whiz/bang/flash is more
>important than basic functionality.
>
>FWIW, I'm not a Vista basher, have been running it on my laptop for about a
>year, and thoroughly enjoy the OS, its security benefits, and its basic
>Internet functionality...
>
> ... however, that does not in any way excuse the fact that MSFT, which
>always based its hiring practices on "youth", did not take into account the
>increasing lack of maturity of the subsequent programmer generation.
I visit the Microsoft campus every year for the past 3 or 4 years. I
always find it somewhat interesting that most of the staff is young
enough to be my children. And I am not all that old. Indeed that youth
does affect things as simple as using a 6 point font for licenses
(need to get reading glasses or magnifying glass) to things like not
understanding how the real world works. They do have some people there
of my generation (tail end of boomers) some are great, some are just
MS youth that grew old.
On Mar 10, 7:43 am, Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > > How quickly can you read 10 new postings in 10 new threads?
> > > By this I
> > > mean the first 30 lines of each posting?
>
> > I don't see the relevance of the question. I
> > don't display any lines in any articles unless the
> > subject of the thread looks interesting.
>
> So assume the subject does look interesting.
>
> The subject line for this thread has nothing to do with the topic.
Well that's the same with any newsreader too, right?
> ...
>
> > If the subject line doesn't look to be interesting I don't display
> > the first few lines, much less the whole thread.
>
> > When I do display a thread, that I have already partially read,
> > I sort it by date and then quickly scroll down to the new
> > articles.
>
> And how long does that take you each time you do it? You have to
> click on the subject line. Click on the Sort-By-Date,
That is done so fast I can't conveniently time it. Let's say
one second.
I actually open each thread that looks interesting in it's own tab,
before reading any. So it may take 5 seconds or so to open
10 threads in ten tabs.
> and scroll/click
> to the one you want to read.
>
It takes about a second or so to get the sorted list, and then
how long it takes to get to the articles depends on the
length of the thread. It can be cumbersome for threads with
more than a hundred articles, but if I log in there is also a 'new'
that goes directly to the first unread article in the thread.
> And then click back to the index of threads, so you can do the next one.
I close the tab and go to the next tab.
I also so an 'ego search' to go directly to those articles that
quote mine.
By comparison, newsreaders I have used are slow and kludgy.
I may have had slow newsfeeds.
But hey, if you like how your newsreaders works, great! Some
people don't like pine, some people do.
--
FF
Don't take this a gospel, but ---
I believe Vista uses Windows Live for mail but not for anything else.
If you want news you must use Outlook Express (or TB) for that function.
I have not checked to see if the MSN interface between OE and the =
web-based mail function in Vista is still viable.
You will probably have to DL a copy of OE or TB from the net to get the =
news goodies.
P D Q
"SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:_2Jzj.11081$1_.645@trnddc02...
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where =
outlook=20
> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the =
newsgroups=20
> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> SD=20
>=20
>
SHOPDOG wrote:
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where
> outlook express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the
> newsgroups there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the
> group?
Tools/Accounts/Add/Newsgroup Account, then provide the appropriate
information.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
PDQ wrote:
> Don't take this a gospel, but ---
>
> I believe Vista uses Windows Live for mail but not for anything
> else.
>
> If you want news you must use Outlook Express (or TB) for that
> function.
>
> I have not checked to see if the MSN interface between OE and the
> web-based mail function in Vista is still viable.
>
> You will probably have to DL a copy of OE or TB from the net to get
> the news goodies.
Vista comes with "Windows Mail", which is for just about all practical
purposes "Outlook Express" with a different label. If you check my
headers you'll find "X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail
6.0.6000.16480" which I'm using from Vista. Even works with
OE-Quotefix.
Windows Live is a service, not a client.
Personally I'm using Outlook (not Express) for a mail client but
that's because I run an Exchange server to get centralized filtering.
> P D Q
>
> "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:_2Jzj.11081$1_.645@trnddc02...
>> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where
>> outlook express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find
>> the
>> newsgroups there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the
>> group?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> SD
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
> PDQ wrote:
> > Don't take this a gospel, but ---
> >
> > SNIP
>=20
> Vista comes with "Windows Mail", which is for just about all practical =
> purposes "Outlook Express" with a different label. If you check my=20
> headers you'll find "X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail=20
> 6.0.6000.16480" which I'm using from Vista. Even works with=20
> OE-Quotefix.
>=20
> Windows Live is a service, not a client.
>=20
> Personally I'm using Outlook (not Express) for a mail client but=20
> that's because I run an Exchange server to get centralized filtering.
>=20
Thanks for the correction. From all the bashing I have seen re Vista, =
I have refrained from joining the new generation (95/98 is not dead =
yet).
Most of what I have seen seemed to tell me that OE was dying too and I =
am not a real lover of "Hotmail".
It is nice to know that MSN has seen fit to keep OE viable even if under =
another name.
Thanks for the update
P D Q
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote
>>
>> AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered
>> by all the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse
>> than involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern
>> speech.
>>
> Reminds me of John Denver on the tonight show. His favorite phrase
> was, "far out!" They would count how many times he uttered that
> phrase during the times he hosted the show. I don't remember the
> number, but it was far beyond what any normal human being needed to
> use during any kind of rational, intelligent conversation.
A friend of mine who was a PhD physicist and big fan of Ursula K.
Leguin would drop "So it goes" into the conversation at every
opportunity. There were times when I wanted to strangle him.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Jim Stuyck wrote:
> If I recall correctly, the original question dealt with using
> Windows
> Mail, in Vista, to access these newsgroups. I'm doing just that,
> right now: Have been since I got this new computer a few days
> before Christmas. I suppose I could use Microsoft Outlook, in
> fact I did for a week or so, but for whatever reasons I decided
> I preferred the simplicity of Windows Mail.
Accessing newsgroups from Outlook requires a third-party add-on or an
Exchange server set up to provide NNTP access.
> This computer is sitting next to a 7-year-old computer that is
> currently running Windows XP with SP2. Both work well, but
> the new machine has 4 times the memory and three times the
> speed and, frankly, it's now my favorite. I got used to the look
> and feel of Vista (not that much different from XP) and have
> no problems with either system.
>
> YMMV
>
> Jim Stuyck
>
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Charley" wrote
>>> I didn't even know that there was a SP1 for Vista yet. It's still
>>> way too soon to adopt it, in my opinion. I'll stick with XP Pro
>>> and
>>> it's fixes. It's working quite well for me right now so I have no
>>> desire to open a new can of worms.
>>
>> Don't blame you ... IIRC, SP1 "Final" for Vista was sent to
>> manufacturing in
>> early to mid February, but many already have it, including those
>> SP1
>> beta testers for various parts of the OS. (I was involved in
>> testing
>> the USB "ReadyBoost" feature and had the opportunity to download
>> the
>> final a couple
>> of weeks back, but didn't bother).
>>
>> I'll wait until SP1 is pushed out on Windows Update, since I have
>> no
>> problems whatsoever with Vista at this point due to the
>> "performance
>> and reliability" fixes already installed.
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 12/14/07
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Maxwell Lol" <[email protected]> wrote
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> "Swingman" wrote
>> >
>> > AAMOF, at one point we counted the number of "Absolutely's" uttered by
>> > all
>> > the Microsofties involved in a presentation ... it was worse than
>> > involuntarily focusing in on the "you know's" of modern speech.
>> >
>> Reminds me of John Denver on the tonight show. His favorite phrase was,
>> "far out!" They would count how many times he uttered that phrase during
>> the
>> times he hosted the show. I don't remember the number, but it was far
>> beyond
>> what any normal human being needed to use during any kind of rational,
>> intelligent conversation.
>
> Was it a drinking game? Or perhaps a toking game?
Apparently it was his normal speech at that time. Years later he was
obviously embarrassed by mention of this behavior. I am certain being
immersed in the culture of the time had something to do with it. (oblique
reference to drugs here)
SHOPDOG wrote:
> Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook
> express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
> there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>
> Thanks
>
> SD
>
>
I got a low end Compaq laptop that came with Vista Basic. It had 512MB
of memory wich is fine after I put XP on it, but wasa about 1.5GB short
for Vista. I ended up putting Ubuntu 7.10 on it with vmware for running
Windows XP. I also upgraded the memory from .5GB to 2GB from
Crucial.com for about $79.
As for a news client, Thunderbird works fine under Linux and Windows (XP
or Vista).
Have you entered a newsgroup feed? My isp tells me what the name of
teir newsgroup servers are. Once I have that I can search for groups.
I happen to use Agent but the concept is the same. Windows Mail.
On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:55:54 GMT, "SHOPDOG" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ok, I just got a new laptop. After setting things up I found where outlook
>express used to be is microsoft mail. Well, I can;t find the newsgroups
>there. What gives? Is there a way to subscribe to the group?
>
>Thanks
>
>SD
>