Most important adjustment:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:22:53 -0400, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>"

>"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
> capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
> It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
>Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
>and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
>such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
>fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
>fools that made him their prince".

Any person who finds it necessary pontificate his political opinion
with *every* message has very little credibility as far as most are
concerned.

I agree with the other posters. Also, the board may bend away or
toward the fence, while cutting, by virtue of stresses in the board
being released and/or moisture release, contributing the board bending
as it's cut, especially with air dried lumber.

You say you have this problem cutting a panel. A plywood panel? A
regular board as being the "panel"? Identify your "panel",
specifically.

Do you have this problem with all your wood cutting?

Sonny

Mike M wrote:

>
> It always amazes me that it looks fine when your typing but then when
> it's posted you wonder. I do need to get my eyes checked that's my
> story and I'm sticking to it.

I'm convinced that there is some electron anomoly that takes place upon
hitting the SEND key. Dropped bits, picked bits, shuffled bits - something
that results in your well phrased prose being turned into something other
than what you intended to say...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:01:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 8/13/2012 4:45 PM, Mike M wrote:
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
>> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
>> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
>> typing errors. LOL
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>
>
>Umm Mike, LOL, I am just saying what is generally excepted??? Whose
>typing errors? Don't you just hate it when that happens. ;~)

It always amazes me that it looks fine when your typing but then when
it's posted you wonder. I do need to get my eyes checked that's my
story and I'm sticking to it.

"sal" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important
> adjustment or critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip
> cut on the table saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a
> panel may be off as much as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged
> contractor's with folding stand 10".
>
>
> Sal
>
>

I wouldn't say I was a wood pro, but I did cut a board last night.

One of the things I've found essential to making a straight accurate rip
on the TS is keeping the board tight to the fence. It's easy to let the
board wander that little bit and then the cut is either undersized or
wavy.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>
> I will put my money where my moth is.
>
I know that Leon has some fine motor control problems around keyboards. But
this was just too good to pass up. So I will just run with it...

1. "My moth"??? Is it a pet? How big is it? Did you build a special
house for him? I can just see it now. Half swingman's chicken coop and
half Leon's monster bed. With 657 dominos.

2. Moths eat clothes. Not a good place to put your money. I am sure they
would find US currency tasty as well. Surely you can find a better place to
put your money.

3. How long have you kept moths as pets? Have you heard of dogs? Bigger,
more trouble, but friendly and sociable.

4. It must be difficult lighting the room the moth is in. They love lights
and eventually dry up on the light. So what do you use? Fluorescents?
LED's? Skylights? Etc.?

5. What do you feed the little critters? Purina Moth Chow?

6. Does your odd choice in pets cause any problems with the missus. The
love of my life would kill it on sight. And probably damage something in
the process. She gets totally primal about moths, spiders, etc. Your honey
must be very mellow.

7. Do your moths receive regular veterinarian care. Or do you just let
them die when they get sick?

8. Do you breed moths? Going for a multicolored line? Is there any money
in moth breeding, sales etc?

9. Is it an expensive hobby? Does it cost much to get into moth husbandry?

10. Are you a prolific contributor to the various moth forums and boards?
What kind of people hang out in those places? Are there many trolls or
flame wars among moth enthusiasts?

Just feeling a bit silly today. :)

On 8/11/2012 9:11 AM, sal wrote:
> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important adjustment or
> critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip cut on the table
> saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a panel may be off as much
> as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged contractor's with folding stand 10".
>
>
> Sal
>
>


So Sal, did you ever dream that this post would take this turn? LOL

Sorry for all the confusion and havoc on your post. Glad to know that
you have solve the problem.

On 8/13/2012 5:15 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
>> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
>> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
>> typing errors. LOL
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>
>
> Sorry, but I have no desire to, or intention of, viewing his work as an
> affirmation that his position on the subject at hand is valid or credible.
>

Wuss!

> Being creative and/or talented at how to build something has absolutely
> nothing to do with the mechanical prowess of the user of any given tool.
> One is an art ... the other simply the (mis)understanding of how
> mechanical things work. I've seen some wonderful work come from
> countries by craftsmen who felt fortunate to have a skill saw mounted
> upside-down under a sheet of plywood.

Snore.

>
> Thanks for giving me the benefit of thinking I'm a noobie here, but, if
> you check back ... I've been in & out of here for the better part of 20
> years. Every time it gets interesting, I get turned off by the cliques
> who wish to rule the roost.


May I ask if you have googled me yet to find how I set up the saw?


I am ruling nothing or trying to. You friend, decided to discredit my
suggestions without having enough hands on experience to know otherwise.

>
> That said, I'm still waiting for him to post his procedure for attaining
> the PERFECT ALIGNMENT of which he speaks. As someone a few posts back
> clearly stated "Put up or SFTU"


May I ask if you have yet googled my numerous explanations on how to do
this? Does SFTU make you feel all better?

And as previously stated I should have stated as close to perfect as
humanly possible. I am to too damn belligerent to not admit that I
might have used better words for you to better get a grasp on the concept.

On 8/13/2012 4:45 PM, Mike M wrote:

>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
> typing errors. LOL
>
> Mike M
>


Umm Mike, LOL, I am just saying what is generally excepted??? Whose
typing errors? Don't you just hate it when that happens. ;~)

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/

Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
afford all that wood.

On 8/13/2012 10:54 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>
>> Not nonsense, you may have OK results with think kerf but thin kerf is
>> not going to give good results in all situations.
>
> Still nonsense ... thin kerf is designed for underpowered saws and/or
> material where excess loss from standard kerf is undesirable.

Precisely, but I can assure you that a 1 hp underpowered saw will cut
just as well with a quality regular kerf blade as with a thin kerf.
Add to that a regular kerf blade is going to more consistently deliver
better flatter cuts. Thin kerf blades are not known for delivering as
accurate and or the same quality of cut as as a regular kerf blade.
Until a thin kerf blade is made that does not flex the results will not
be as consistent as those with a regular kerf blade.


>
>
>> Don't have much experience Bob? Your comments are for dealing with
>> improper procedure to begin with. Perfectly parallel is required if you
>> are feeding correctly. With longer rip cuts not parallel and or tipped
>> away from from the blade at the rear ends up with the waste side being
>> pulled into the opposite side of the blade at the rear. SIMPLE geometry.
>
> Plenty of experience ... better than 55 years worth ...that's why my
> comment(s). "Perfectly Parallel" is not possible, even with exceptional
> indicators, etc.

Ok I see you are some what AR and take every thing literally. What I
should have said is that you ABSOLUTELY want your fence to be as close
to parallel to the blade as humanly possible. Happy?


Since you will ALWAYS have some error, it is best to
> let it work in your favor by opening it up a bit at the rear such that
> the teeth rising from under the table do not rub on the freshly cut
> surface.

No, go for a close to parallel as possible. Because "you" cant get
close does not mean that you should be happy with .005+ put at the back.


The length of the cut has very little, if anything to do with
> the alignment procedure ... yes, you will possibly get some scuffing on
> the waste side of the material ... ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU WOULD WANT IT TO
> OCCUR ???

Absolutely not if it can be helped. Why make put up with a "scuffed"
edge on the waste side which most often will be used again if you don't
have top.

And the length is extremely important with having proper alignment.
The further past the blade a board travels the more it will want to pull
away from the fence and rub against the splitter or blade especially
when the fence is tipped out away from the blade. This is not how they
demo the procedure at the WW shows when they advise tipping the fence out.



A light pass over the jointer will fix that in a second, or,
> don't you have the experience to do so ???

Extra steps. My experience is to do it right in the first place and not
have to take the extra step.

>
> Care to show/tell us all EXACTLY HOW you attain perfect parallelism
> between your blade & fence ??? Maybe all of the experts I've read and
> watched have it all wrong ... I'd love to see your alignment procedure
> along with the results of it.
>

OK Bob you just gave yourself away, you are reading about what all of
the "experts say". I deal with this day in and day out. Simply put
tipping your fence out a few thousands at the back of the blade is
simply a compensation to make up for another problem.

Years ago I used thin kerf blades, years ago I tipped my fence out at
the back. I learned to set the saw up correctly and to buy better
blades. I have been there and done that.


And besides regurgitating something you have read to be contrary to
actual extensive experience what have you contributed to help the OP
solve his problem?

"sal" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important adjustment or
> critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip cut on the table
> saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a panel may be off as much
> as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged contractor's with folding stand 10".

Got a splitter?

Put it on.

With the fence, table top (miter slot), and blade parallel, the splitter
will protect you from kickback and help keep the stock running straight and
against the fence.

The most common cause of a trapezoidal stock cut on the table saw is a
poorly setup saw (one or more of the above parameters off).

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>

Ok Bob you obviously don't have the experience and I am not going to try
to change your mind.


>Once again ... I would challenge you to reveal your procedure in a
?step-by-step manner ... or, does that idea intimidate you just a bit ??

If you Google my posts you will find that I have mentioned the steps
time and a gain.


I don't do video so next best thing, lets compare results.

Seriously, I have been pretty busy and I would not be putting up with
equipment that is not set up to yield the best possible results.

If you are truly interested in setting up your saw and getting the best
possible results, go to a pro that makes a living with his tools and ask
how he sets his equipment up and see if it comes close to how the
"experts" do it.


I will put my money where my moth is.

This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/

On 8/13/2012 2:11 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/13/12 12:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>>>
>>>> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>>>> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>>>> alignment procedure.
>>>
>>> You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
>>> examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.
>>>
>>> IOW, put up, or STFU ...
>>>
>>
>> I agree. And I though *I* was an ass. :-)
>
> Well... to be fair - the guy has really not said anything wrong.

Well, yes he has. I was making suggestions to help rule out potential
problems, he was pretty much saying my suggestions were nonsense.


Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up correctly,
bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
regular kerf blade. <<BOB>> is obviously happy with thin kerf blades
but that does not mean what is good for BOB is good enough for every one.

I stated that the fence should be perfectly parallel to the blade. It
should be, He indicated that it can't be and as long as it is not
parallel it might as well be out on purpose. That is an old trade show
trick usually demonstrated by a guy selling blades that don't burn the
wood. They never demonstrate on long boards because it will not yield
the same results.
I did rephrase that the fence should be as parallel as humanly possible
so that BOB might possibly understand the concept. He still seems
fixated on not understanding what I am trying to convey.

If he really gave a damn he would have pitched in like every one else
and would have made a contributory suggestion to help solve the OP's
instead of reciting something he read so that he could be contrary.

I hate to plonk some one this early in their reentry into the group but
I don't see him being a contributor so much as some one that so far is
only here to argue.

BOB? What do you say?














It may
> offend some in the group, but that's in part because the group has inner
> friendships. His questions and his points are not all bad. It does not
> matter what Karl says - he's all about proclaiming things. This guy Bob has
> actually asked some pretty good questions - if you look at it from the
> perspective that he does not (or probably does not...) know Leon and the
> work he produces. But then again - nobody here knows the work that Bob
> produces. Folks in an inner group tend to respond shortly and without
> enough detail, because things have been talked about before, or because they
> have established themselves within a group - like Leon has. But - when a
> newcomer comes along, those established qualities are not always so
> apparrent. Or - his manner of creating dialog is not as accepted as what
> the group norm is. It ends up resulting in conflict.
>
> And of course - you are an ass! Glad I'm not the only one here...
>

"">>"" wrote in message news:[email protected]...


> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
> typing errors. LOL
>
> Mike M
>


Sorry, but I have no desire to, or intention of, viewing his work as an
affirmation that his position on the subject at hand is valid or credible.

Being creative and/or talented at how to build something has absolutely
nothing to do with the mechanical prowess of the user of any given tool.
One is an art ... the other simply the (mis)understanding of how
mechanical things work. I've seen some wonderful work come from
countries by craftsmen who felt fortunate to have a skill saw mounted
upside-down under a sheet of plywood.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of thinking I'm a noobie here, but, if
you check back ... I've been in & out of here for the better part of 20
years. Every time it gets interesting, I get turned off by the cliques
who wish to rule the roost.

That said, I'm still waiting for him to post his procedure for attaining
the PERFECT ALIGNMENT of which he speaks. --
===================================================================================================

Define "perfect".

On 8/13/2012 1:19 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:48:47 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>
>>> Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>>
>>> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>>> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>>> alignment procedure.
>>
>> You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
>> examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.
>
> As strident as he is in his writings, I'm wondering if it's not a
> brand new Wreck Troll that Leon has on the line now. Keep your gaff
> and net handy; Leon might need some help landing that one.

I could be wrong here Larry but I think a troll usually does the
fishing/trolling. I think I may have swallowed the hook.

On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up correctly,
>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
>>> regular kerf blade.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>>
>
> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
> have "bad alignment?"

Absolutely ... and, by LEON's logic, a blade that is only 3/64" thin ...
cutting through 2" Red Oak at a fast pace should have warped up like a
potato chip.


--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

> Starting with straight wood.

One straight edge to run against the fence is essential ...
>
> Using a blade that does not flex, that means no thin kerf blades.

Nonsense ... thin kerf blades are perfectly acceptable ... especially on
an under powered saw.
>
> Insuring that you fence is "perfectly" parallel to your blade.

More nonsense ... there is NO such thing as "Perfect Alignment" ...
bring it into decent alignment by whatever means you have available ...
then ... make a series of cuts, adjusting the fence as needed to ensure
no scoring marks on your workpiece. Many times, this will mean tilting
the fence very slightly away from the blade at the rear ... REMEMBER ...
VERY SLIGHTLY !!!
>
> Practice
>
> Practice
>
> Practice

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On 8/14/2012 10:10 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>
> On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up
>>>> correctly,
>>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
>>>> regular kerf blade.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>
>>
>> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
>> have "bad alignment?"
>
> Absolutely ... and, by LEON's logic, a blade that is only 3/64" thin ...
> cutting through 2" Red Oak at a fast pace should have warped up like a
> potato chip.
>
>


and hummmm according to the person answeing questions and apparently
servicing the blade.....

If the blade is being pinched or is dull, then yes it will warp. But we
can bring it back to normal if this is your problem.


So I take it that if the fence is not running as close to parallel to
the blade as possible the blade is going to be in a bind and or will be
pinched....

On 8/11/2012 10:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/11/2012 9:11 AM, sal wrote:
>> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important
>> adjustment or
>> critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip cut on the table
>> saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a panel may be off as
>> much
>> as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged contractor's with folding
>> stand 10".
>>
>>
>> Sal
>>
>>
>
>
> Starting with straight wood.
>
> Using a blade that does not flex, that means no thin kerf blades.
>
> Insuring that you fence is "perfectly" parallel to your blade.
>
> Practice
>
> Practice
>
> Practice

I don't think he is using a contractor saw, I think a benchtop, portable
saw... which means that it will be using a thin kerf.. since it will
have a universal motor.

I bent my Freud Diablo miter saw blade again. Damn thin kerf...
I was making a wheel truing stand for my sons bike, and was cutting a
piece of wood 5/16 by 3/4 and 2 feet long. The piece that cut off kicked
back when the blade hadn't cut all the way through. I came down again
and it kicked, bending the blade. I am borrowing a crappy sliding miter
saw from a friend since I destroyed mine (dropped down the stairs). The
thin kerf is certainly delicate. But I don't see a miter blade that is
not thin kerf. Even Forrest's blades are thin for the Miter saw.

The plate is now .004 out on the Freud, very noticeable cut change..
scoring of the side.

On 8/14/2012 4:41 PM, Mike M wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:01:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/2012 4:45 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
>>> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
>>> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
>>> typing errors. LOL
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>
>>
>> Umm Mike, LOL, I am just saying what is generally excepted??? Whose
>> typing errors? Don't you just hate it when that happens. ;~)
>
> It always amazes me that it looks fine when your typing but then when
> it's posted you wonder. I do need to get my eyes checked that's my
> story and I'm sticking to it.
>
>


LOL I know! How well I know... I like to blame my spell checker.

Hi Leon I never dreamed I would cause such a kafuffle,this could have
resulted in a real Donnybrook.I've been called S--- disturber before in an
offhand way. I did learn quite bit and hope nobody has any grudges or
animosity because of the post. I always say ""Have a nice day somewhere
else"".

Sal

"sal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important adjustment
> or critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip cut on the table
> saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a panel may be off as
> much as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged contractor's with folding
> stand 10".
>
>
> Sal
>
>

> Precisely, but I can assure you that a 1 hp underpowered saw will cut
> just as well with a quality regular kerf blade as with a thin kerf.

Nonsense once again ... a 1 HP saw, in many cases won't even pull a
standard blade through any hard or thick stock without bogging down.

> Add to that a regular kerf blade is going to more consistently deliver
> better flatter cuts.

Yet MORE nonsense !!!

Thin kerf blades are not known for delivering as
> accurate and or the same quality of cut as as a regular kerf blade.
> Until a thin kerf blade is made that does not flex the results will not
> be as consistent as those with a regular kerf blade.

Catch up with the times buddy ... there are now "EXTRA-THIN" kerf blades
that will do anything a standard blade will do ...
>
>
> Ok I see you are some what AR and take every thing literally. What I
> should have said is that you ABSOLUTELY want your fence to be as close
> to parallel to the blade as humanly possible. Happy?

If I didn't take your words literally, you would then, I am sure, accuse
me of taking your writings out of context ... I'd rather be guilty as
charged of assuming you know what you said, and meant it as stated.


> Since you will ALWAYS have some error, it is best to
>> let it work in your favor by opening it up a bit at the rear such that
>> the teeth rising from under the table do not rub on the freshly cut
>> surface.
>
> No, go for a close to parallel as possible. Because "you" cant get
> close does not mean that you should be happy with .005+ put at the back.

Well ... if YOU can get it PERFECT ... why not enlighten the rest of us
how you did it ???
>
>
> The length of the cut has very little, if anything to do with
>> the alignment procedure ... yes, you will possibly get some scuffing on
>> the waste side of the material ... ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU WOULD WANT IT TO
>> OCCUR ???
>
> Absolutely not if it can be helped. Why make put up with a "scuffed"
> edge on the waste side which most often will be used again if you don't
> have top.

Life is just full of compromises ... this is just one of them ... AGAIN
... if you have a method of obtaining the mythical PERFECTION you claim
... why not enlighten the rest of us ???
>
> And the length is extremely important with having proper alignment.
> The further past the blade a board travels the more it will want to pull
> away from the fence and rub against the splitter or blade especially
> when the fence is tipped out away from the blade. This is not how they
> demo the procedure at the WW shows when they advise tipping the fence out.
>
>
>
> A light pass over the jointer will fix that in a second, or,
>> don't you have the experience to do so ???
>
> Extra steps. My experience is to do it right in the first place and not
> have to take the extra step.

PLEASE ... PLEASE show us !!! !!!
>
>>
>> Care to show/tell us all EXACTLY HOW you attain perfect parallelism
>> between your blade & fence ??? Maybe all of the experts I've read and
>> watched have it all wrong ... I'd love to see your alignment procedure
>> along with the results of it.

Still waiting ... ...

>
> OK Bob you just gave yourself away, you are reading about what all of
> the "experts say". I deal with this day in and day out. Simply put
> tipping your fence out a few thousands at the back of the blade is
> simply a compensation to make up for another problem.

I read all I can ... then experiment with that information, striving for
the perfection that neither you or I can attain ... how & where I get my
ideas is of no consequence.
>
> Years ago I used thin kerf blades, years ago I tipped my fence out at
> the back. I learned to set the saw up correctly and to buy better
> blades. I have been there and done that.

Once again ... I would challenge you to reveal your procedure in a
step-by-step manner ... or, does that idea intimidate you just a bit ??
>
>
> And besides regurgitating something you have read to be contrary to
> actual extensive experience what have you contributed to help the OP
> solve his problem?

I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
alignment procedure.


>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
> typing errors. LOL
>
> Mike M
>


Sorry, but I have no desire to, or intention of, viewing his work as an
affirmation that his position on the subject at hand is valid or credible.

Being creative and/or talented at how to build something has absolutely
nothing to do with the mechanical prowess of the user of any given tool.
One is an art ... the other simply the (mis)understanding of how
mechanical things work. I've seen some wonderful work come from
countries by craftsmen who felt fortunate to have a skill saw mounted
upside-down under a sheet of plywood.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of thinking I'm a noobie here, but, if
you check back ... I've been in & out of here for the better part of 20
years. Every time it gets interesting, I get turned off by the cliques
who wish to rule the roost.

That said, I'm still waiting for him to post his procedure for attaining
the PERFECT ALIGNMENT of which he speaks. As someone a few posts back
clearly stated "Put up or SFTU"

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On 8/11/2012 9:11 AM, sal wrote:
> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important adjustment or
> critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip cut on the table
> saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a panel may be off as much
> as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged contractor's with folding stand 10".
>
>
> Sal
>
>


Starting with straight wood.

Using a blade that does not flex, that means no thin kerf blades.

Insuring that you fence is "perfectly" parallel to your blade.

Practice

Practice

Practice

>> Can you read? Didn't he write, "IF not set up correctly" and "bad
>> alignment?"

Sure ... CAN YOU ??? In his original response, LEON totally condemned
the use of thin kerf blades, or didn't you notice ???

In that video, none of us has ANY idea as to how it was setup ... I
posted the link simply to (once again) demonstrate the fallacy of his
comment.



--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On 8/14/2012 6:31 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/
>
> Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
> own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
> afford all that wood.
>



Thank you Sir!

Book cases, both sets, the walnut and oak bed, the Murphy bed, the two
walnut night tables, and one of the jewelery chests were for customers.

On 8/14/2012 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/14/12 10:10 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up
>>>>> correctly,
>>>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex
>>>>> than a
>>>>> regular kerf blade.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>>
>>>
>>> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
>>> have "bad alignment?"
>>
>> Absolutely ... and, by LEON's logic, a blade that is only 3/64" thin ...
>> cutting through 2" Red Oak at a fast pace should have warped up like a
>> potato chip.
>>
>
> Can you read? Didn't he write, "IF not set up correctly" and "bad
> alignment?"
>
>

Mike he is a troll! By his own admission he has come and gone for the
past 20 years. If he were not here to stir it up he would probably
stick around. He seems fixated on what he can argue with.

On 8/14/2012 9:56 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/14/12 6:31 AM, Dave wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/
>>
>> Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
>> own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
>> afford all that wood.
>>
>
> As opposed to the sh*tload of spare cash laying around to afford all
> that furniture had he bought it from a store?
>
>

LOL, probably cheaper than the store!

On 8/14/2012 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/14/12 10:10 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up
>>>>> correctly,
>>>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex
>>>>> than a
>>>>> regular kerf blade.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>>
>>>
>>> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
>>> have "bad alignment?"
>>
>> Absolutely ... and, by LEON's logic, a blade that is only 3/64" thin ...
>> cutting through 2" Red Oak at a fast pace should have warped up like a
>> potato chip.
>>
>
> Can you read? Didn't he write, "IF not set up correctly" and "bad
> alignment?"
>
>


When he reads, he sees what he wants to see to perpetuate the argument.

On 8/14/2012 7:28 AM, sal wrote:
> Hi Leon I never dreamed I would cause such a kafuffle,this could have
> resulted in a real Donnybrook.I've been called S--- disturber before in an
> offhand way. I did learn quite bit and hope nobody has any grudges or
> animosity because of the post. I always say ""Have a nice day somewhere
> else"".
>
> Sal
>
> "sal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Hello wood pro's what in your opinion is the most important adjustment
>> or critical requirement to making a straight accurate rip cut on the table
>> saw?I do have difficulty in this area one end of a panel may be off as
>> much as a 1/16"-3/32" . The saw is a Ridged contractor's with folding
>> stand 10".
>>
>>
>> Sal
>>
>>
>
>



Sal you are in no way responsible for me being hooked by the troll. I
claim half the responsibility for even responding to him.

On 8/13/2012 3:09 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>>
>> I will put my money where my moth is.
>>
> I know that Leon has some fine motor control problems around keyboards.
> But this was just too good to pass up. So I will just run with it...
>
> 1. "My moth"??? Is it a pet? How big is it? Did you build a special
> house for him? I can just see it now. Half swingman's chicken coop and
> half Leon's monster bed. With 657 dominos.

Yes my moth. LOL

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/13/12 12:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>
>>> Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>>
>>> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>>> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>>> alignment procedure.
>>
>> You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
>> examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.
>>
>> IOW, put up, or STFU ...
>>
>
> I agree. And I though *I* was an ass. :-)

Well... to be fair - the guy has really not said anything wrong. It may
offend some in the group, but that's in part because the group has inner
friendships. His questions and his points are not all bad. It does not
matter what Karl says - he's all about proclaiming things. This guy Bob has
actually asked some pretty good questions - if you look at it from the
perspective that he does not (or probably does not...) know Leon and the
work he produces. But then again - nobody here knows the work that Bob
produces. Folks in an inner group tend to respond shortly and without
enough detail, because things have been talked about before, or because they
have established themselves within a group - like Leon has. But - when a
newcomer comes along, those established qualities are not always so
apparrent. Or - his manner of creating dialog is not as accepted as what
the group norm is. It ends up resulting in conflict.

And of course - you are an ass! Glad I'm not the only one here...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:22:53 -0400, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>> Precisely, but I can assure you that a 1 hp underpowered saw will cut
>> just as well with a quality regular kerf blade as with a thin kerf.
>
>Nonsense once again ... a 1 HP saw, in many cases won't even pull a
>standard blade through any hard or thick stock without bogging down.
>
>> Add to that a regular kerf blade is going to more consistently deliver
>> better flatter cuts.
>
>Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>
> Thin kerf blades are not known for delivering as
>> accurate and or the same quality of cut as as a regular kerf blade.
>> Until a thin kerf blade is made that does not flex the results will not
>> be as consistent as those with a regular kerf blade.
>
>Catch up with the times buddy ... there are now "EXTRA-THIN" kerf blades
>that will do anything a standard blade will do ...
>>
>>
>> Ok I see you are some what AR and take every thing literally. What I
>> should have said is that you ABSOLUTELY want your fence to be as close
>> to parallel to the blade as humanly possible. Happy?
>
>If I didn't take your words literally, you would then, I am sure, accuse
>me of taking your writings out of context ... I'd rather be guilty as
>charged of assuming you know what you said, and meant it as stated.
>
>
>> Since you will ALWAYS have some error, it is best to
>>> let it work in your favor by opening it up a bit at the rear such that
>>> the teeth rising from under the table do not rub on the freshly cut
>>> surface.
>>
>> No, go for a close to parallel as possible. Because "you" cant get
>> close does not mean that you should be happy with .005+ put at the back.
>
>Well ... if YOU can get it PERFECT ... why not enlighten the rest of us
>how you did it ???
>>
>>
>> The length of the cut has very little, if anything to do with
>>> the alignment procedure ... yes, you will possibly get some scuffing on
>>> the waste side of the material ... ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU WOULD WANT IT TO
>>> OCCUR ???
>>
>> Absolutely not if it can be helped. Why make put up with a "scuffed"
>> edge on the waste side which most often will be used again if you don't
>> have top.
>
>Life is just full of compromises ... this is just one of them ... AGAIN
>... if you have a method of obtaining the mythical PERFECTION you claim
>... why not enlighten the rest of us ???
>>
>> And the length is extremely important with having proper alignment.
>> The further past the blade a board travels the more it will want to pull
>> away from the fence and rub against the splitter or blade especially
>> when the fence is tipped out away from the blade. This is not how they
>> demo the procedure at the WW shows when they advise tipping the fence out.
>>
>>
>>
>> A light pass over the jointer will fix that in a second, or,
>>> don't you have the experience to do so ???
>>
>> Extra steps. My experience is to do it right in the first place and not
>> have to take the extra step.
>
>PLEASE ... PLEASE show us !!! !!!
>>
>>>
>>> Care to show/tell us all EXACTLY HOW you attain perfect parallelism
>>> between your blade & fence ??? Maybe all of the experts I've read and
>>> watched have it all wrong ... I'd love to see your alignment procedure
>>> along with the results of it.
>
>Still waiting ... ...
>
>>
>> OK Bob you just gave yourself away, you are reading about what all of
>> the "experts say". I deal with this day in and day out. Simply put
>> tipping your fence out a few thousands at the back of the blade is
>> simply a compensation to make up for another problem.
>
>I read all I can ... then experiment with that information, striving for
>the perfection that neither you or I can attain ... how & where I get my
>ideas is of no consequence.
>>
>> Years ago I used thin kerf blades, years ago I tipped my fence out at
>> the back. I learned to set the saw up correctly and to buy better
>> blades. I have been there and done that.
>
>Once again ... I would challenge you to reveal your procedure in a
>step-by-step manner ... or, does that idea intimidate you just a bit ??
>>
>>
>> And besides regurgitating something you have read to be contrary to
>> actual extensive experience what have you contributed to help the OP
>> solve his problem?
>
>I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>alignment procedure.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
typing errors. LOL

Mike M

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 23:25:13 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>I'm convinced that there is some electron anomoly that takes place upon
>hitting the SEND key. Dropped bits, picked bits, shuffled bits - something
>that results in your well phrased prose being turned into something other
>than what you intended to say...

You must be talking about the MikeMarlow bug. It's known to turn
messages into a rant every so often and then eventually admit that
wasn't its intention.


:)

> Not nonsense, you may have OK results with think kerf but thin kerf is
> not going to give good results in all situations.

Still nonsense ... thin kerf is designed for underpowered saws and/or
material where excess loss from standard kerf is undesirable.


> Don't have much experience Bob? Your comments are for dealing with
> improper procedure to begin with. Perfectly parallel is required if you
> are feeding correctly. With longer rip cuts not parallel and or tipped
> away from from the blade at the rear ends up with the waste side being
> pulled into the opposite side of the blade at the rear. SIMPLE geometry.

Plenty of experience ... better than 55 years worth ...that's why my
comment(s). "Perfectly Parallel" is not possible, even with exceptional
indicators, etc. Since you will ALWAYS have some error, it is best to
let it work in your favor by opening it up a bit at the rear such that
the teeth rising from under the table do not rub on the freshly cut
surface. The length of the cut has very little, if anything to do with
the alignment procedure ... yes, you will possibly get some scuffing on
the waste side of the material ... ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU WOULD WANT IT TO
OCCUR ??? A light pass over the jointer will fix that in a second, or,
don't you have the experience to do so ???

Care to show/tell us all EXACTLY HOW you attain perfect parallelism
between your blade & fence ??? Maybe all of the experts I've read and
watched have it all wrong ... I'd love to see your alignment procedure
along with the results of it.

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

>> Well... to be fair - the guy has really not said anything wrong.
>
> Well, yes he has. I was making suggestions to help rule out potential
> problems, he was pretty much saying my suggestions were nonsense.
>
>
> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up correctly,
> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
> regular kerf blade.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!



<<BOB>> is obviously happy with thin kerf blades
> but that does not mean what is good for BOB is good enough for every one.

Don't know how you derived this little INCORRECT tidbit of information
... I have one FREUD TK blade that I use when appropriate.
>
> I stated that the fence should be perfectly parallel to the blade. It
> should be, He indicated that it can't be and as long as it is not
> parallel it might as well be out on purpose. That is an old trade show
> trick usually demonstrated by a guy selling blades that don't burn the
> wood. They never demonstrate on long boards because it will not yield
> the same results.

Wasn't true the last time you said it ... isn't true now ...


> I did rephrase that the fence should be as parallel as humanly possible
> so that BOB might possibly understand the concept. He still seems
> fixated on not understanding what I am trying to convey.

Can you say "FLIP-FLOP" ??? or "MISSPOKE" ???
>
> If he really gave a damn he would have pitched in like every one else
> and would have made a contributory suggestion to help solve the OP's
> instead of reciting something he read so that he could be contrary.

I did ... by disagreeing with your poorly written advice.
>
> I hate to plonk some one this early in their reentry into the group but
> I don't see him being a contributor so much as some one that so far is
> only here to argue.
>
Do as you wish ... it's your computer ... I doubt I'll miss your poor
advice.


> BOB? What do you say?

YAWN !!! Still waiting for you to actually respond to my original
question ...

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

On 8/14/2012 7:02 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:35:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 8/14/2012 6:31 AM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/
>>>
>>> Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
>>> own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
>>> afford all that wood.
>>
>> Thank you Sir!
>>
>> Book cases, both sets, the walnut and oak bed, the Murphy bed, the two
>> walnut night tables, and one of the jewelery chests were for customers.
>
> Yabbut, that Bridge of Sighs bedroom ensemble must have set you back
> three truck payments. I'm surprised you're not picketed by insane
> tree huggers. (is that last part redundant?)

Oh hell no!!! I only had one truck payment. The unit in question did
not have $75,000.00 worth of wood in it.

I bought a lot of wood/oak in bulk s4s and got a pretty good deal on it.
About $2 per board foot IIRC.

Hi Sonny I should have said plywood. I did some adjustment to my fence and
squared up saw blade to miter slots on the table. What a difference , cuts
like a charm I guess I got sloppy in my old age. Thanks for the help guys.


Sal
"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1e39c8fa-1ec1-41a5-8c0a-e8f0bb23aa26@a17g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>I agree with the other posters. Also, the board may bend away or
> toward the fence, while cutting, by virtue of stresses in the board
> being released and/or moisture release, contributing the board bending
> as it's cut, especially with air dried lumber.
>
> You say you have this problem cutting a panel. A plywood panel? A
> regular board as being the "panel"? Identify your "panel",
> specifically.
>
> Do you have this problem with all your wood cutting?
>
> Sonny

"<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>
>> Not nonsense, you may have OK results with think kerf but thin kerf is
>> not going to give good results in all situations.
>
> Still nonsense ... thin kerf is designed for underpowered saws and/or
> material where excess loss from standard kerf is undesirable.

Yes, but what is your point?


>
>
>> Don't have much experience Bob? Your comments are for dealing with
>> improper procedure to begin with. Perfectly parallel is required if you
>> are feeding correctly. With longer rip cuts not parallel and or tipped
>> away from from the blade at the rear ends up with the waste side being
>> pulled into the opposite side of the blade at the rear. SIMPLE geometry.
>
> Plenty of experience ... better than 55 years worth ...that's why my
> comment(s). "Perfectly Parallel" is not possible, even with exceptional
> indicators, etc. Since you will ALWAYS have some error, it is best to
> let it work in your favor by opening it up a bit at the rear such that
> the teeth rising from under the table do not rub on the freshly cut
> surface. The length of the cut has very little, if anything to do with
> the alignment procedure ... yes, you will possibly get some scuffing on
> the waste side of the material ... ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU WOULD WANT IT TO
> OCCUR ??? A light pass over the jointer will fix that in a second, or,
> don't you have the experience to do so ???
>
> Care to show/tell us all EXACTLY HOW you attain perfect parallelism
> between your blade & fence ??? Maybe all of the experts I've read and
> watched have it all wrong ... I'd love to see your alignment procedure
> along with the results of it.

Just so you know, 55 years of experience or not, you are shouting at
damn-fine woodworker.

On 8/13/12 12:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>> Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>
>> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>> alignment procedure.
>
> You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
> examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.
>
> IOW, put up, or STFU ...
>

I agree. And I though *I* was an ass. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/13/12 5:15 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>> Leon is just saying what is generally excepted in this group and if
>> you were to go look at some of his work, you would probably have a
>> greater acceptance of what he says. You just have to read thru the
>> typing errors. LOL
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>
>
> Sorry, but I have no desire to, or intention of, viewing his work as an
> affirmation that his position on the subject at hand is valid or credible.
>
> Being creative and/or talented at how to build something has absolutely
> nothing to do with the mechanical prowess of the user of any given tool.
> One is an art ... the other simply the (mis)understanding of how
> mechanical things work. I've seen some wonderful work come from
> countries by craftsmen who felt fortunate to have a skill saw mounted
> upside-down under a sheet of plywood.
>
> Thanks for giving me the benefit of thinking I'm a noobie here, but, if
> you check back ... I've been in & out of here for the better part of 20
> years. Every time it gets interesting, I get turned off by the cliques
> who wish to rule the roost.
>
> That said, I'm still waiting for him to post his procedure for attaining
> the PERFECT ALIGNMENT of which he speaks. As someone a few posts back
> clearly stated "Put up or SFTU"
>

The internet has plenty of examples of how to properly set up a table saw.
I looked up many of these techniques to set up my saw which also cuts
"perfectly."

While you're looking those up on google, I suggest also looking up the
word, "hyperbole."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up correctly,
>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
>> regular kerf blade.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>

How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
have "bad alignment?"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/14/12 6:31 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/
>
> Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
> own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
> afford all that wood.
>

As opposed to the sh*tload of spare cash laying around to afford all
that furniture had he bought it from a store?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/14/12 10:10 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>
> On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up
>>>> correctly,
>>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
>>>> regular kerf blade.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>>>
>>
>> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
>> have "bad alignment?"
>
> Absolutely ... and, by LEON's logic, a blade that is only 3/64" thin ...
> cutting through 2" Red Oak at a fast pace should have warped up like a
> potato chip.
>

Can you read? Didn't he write, "IF not set up correctly" and "bad
alignment?"


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/14/12 1:36 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 8/14/2012 9:56 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/14/12 6:31 AM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/
>>>
>>> Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
>>> own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
>>> afford all that wood.
>>>
>>
>> As opposed to the sh*tload of spare cash laying around to afford all
>> that furniture had he bought it from a store?
>>
>>
>
> LOL, probably cheaper than the store!


Cheaper and way better than that Chinese termite vomit.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>>> Can you read? Didn't he write, "IF not set up correctly" and "bad
>>> alignment?"
>
> Sure ... CAN YOU ??? In his original response, LEON totally condemned
> the use of thin kerf blades, or didn't you notice ???

I didn't see that. He just said that they were a different animal with
their own properties. Why all the fuss?


>
> In that video, none of us has ANY idea as to how it was setup ... I
> posted the link simply to (once again) demonstrate the fallacy of his
> comment.

I didn't see the video you mention. But the procedure to set up table
saw is well-documented. And, the accuracy of one's configuration is
measurable. Are you using a dial indicator?

On 8/14/12 2:02 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>>> Can you read? Didn't he write, "IF not set up correctly" and "bad
>>> alignment?"
>
> Sure ... CAN YOU ??? In his original response, LEON totally condemned
> the use of thin kerf blades, or didn't you notice ???
>
> In that video, none of us has ANY idea as to how it was setup ... I
> posted the link simply to (once again) demonstrate the fallacy of his
> comment.
>

Goodbye, douchebag.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up correctly,
>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
>>> regular kerf blade.
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!

>
> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
> have "bad alignment?"

No blade cuts well if the saw is not set up "correctly". On the other
hand, for just $184.00, I would think Leon and Swing would own a few,
and they would not only cut better than any other saw on the planet, but
would cook dinner and take you to a movie afterwards...

BTW, I liked the flick, the guy using the saw made sure he put on giant
ear muffs so he couldn't hear wtf the saw was doing (I like full hearing
on all my machinery except my cheap ass, 35 year old shop vac) but the
two fools standing next to him didn't mind hearing what the saw was
doing, neat stuff.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 8/15/12 8:16 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 8/14/2012 10:53 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 8/14/12 9:27 AM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>> Thin kerf blades can and will flex if alignment is not set up
>>>> correctly,
>>>> bad alignment will even flex a regular kerf blade, but it is not a
>>>> stretch to realize that a thin kerf blade is more likely to flex than a
>>>> regular kerf blade.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DIlSsF4Qkg&feature=player_embedded#!
>
>>
>> How much you want to bet that saw is "set up correctly," and doesn't
>> have "bad alignment?"
>
> No blade cuts well if the saw is not set up "correctly".

True. But in my experience a full kerf blade is much, much more
forgiving. It will still make a very good cut with a much less perfect
set-up. A thin kerf blade seems to amplify the errors.


> On the other
> hand, for just $184.00, I would think Leon and Swing would own a few,
> and they would not only cut better than any other saw on the planet, but
> would cook dinner and take you to a movie afterwards...
>
> BTW, I liked the flick, the guy using the saw made sure he put on giant
> ear muffs so he couldn't hear wtf the saw was doing (I like full hearing
> on all my machinery except my cheap ass, 35 year old shop vac) but the
> two fools standing next to him didn't mind hearing what the saw was
> doing, neat stuff.
>

I like to hear what's going on, too. As a musician, however, I'm pretty
anal about protecting my hearing. You don't need gun muffs or other
32dB plugs to protect your hearing. I can wear my musician's plugs that
provide full frequency attenuation that results in what I describe as,
"turning down the volume knob on the world, 15dB."

Essentially, you still "hear" your saw and other power tools, just at a
lower volume which isn't a potential danger your hearing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/12/2012 6:59 AM, sal wrote:
> Hi Sonny I should have said plywood. I did some adjustment to my fence and
> squared up saw blade to miter slots on the table. What a difference , cuts
> like a charm I guess I got sloppy in my old age. Thanks for the help guys.
>
>
> Sal


Great!, keep in mind also that plywood sheets can be heavy and often
are not perfectly flat. Those characteristics tend to add to the
difficulty in achieving a good cut.

On 8/12/2012 6:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>> Starting with straight wood.
>
> One straight edge to run against the fence is essential ...
>>
>> Using a blade that does not flex, that means no thin kerf blades.
>
> Nonsense ... thin kerf blades are perfectly acceptable ... especially on
> an under powered saw.
>>

Not nonsense, you may have OK results with think kerf but thin kerf is
not going to give good results in all situations.


>> Insuring that you fence is "perfectly" parallel to your blade.
>
> More nonsense ... there is NO such thing as "Perfect Alignment" ...
> bring it into decent alignment by whatever means you have available ...
> then ... make a series of cuts, adjusting the fence as needed to ensure
> no scoring marks on your workpiece. Many times, this will mean tilting
> the fence very slightly away from the blade at the rear ... REMEMBER ...
> VERY SLIGHTLY !!!
>>
>> Practice
>>
>> Practice
>>
>> Practice
>


Don't have much experience Bob? Your comments are for dealing with
improper procedure to begin with. Perfectly parallel is required if you
are feeding correctly. With longer rip cuts not parallel and or tipped
away from from the blade at the rear ends up with the waste side being
pulled into the opposite side of the blade at the rear. SIMPLE geometry.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:54:41 -0400, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>"
>comment(s). "Perfectly Parallel" is not possible, even with exceptional
>indicators, etc. Since you will ALWAYS have some error, it is best to
>let it work in your favor by opening it up a bit at the rear such that
>the teeth rising from under the table do not rub on the freshly cut

That's a pretty misleading statement Bob. NOTHING is ever perfectly
parallel when it really comes down to it, but you can fine tune
parallel cutting enough that errors reach the diminishing return
stage.

With my old Rockwell Beaver contractor's saw and an aftermarket
Excalibur fence on it, I can cut parallel strips of plywood to
repeatable 1/64" tolerances. While not absolutely perfect, it is
certainly sufficient for all of the cabinet making that I do or have
ever done.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:35:59 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 8/14/2012 6:31 AM, Dave wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:51:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> This is what I have done in the past 20 or so months.
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/sets/72157630857421932/
>>
>> Some nice work there. And, if most of that construction was for your
>> own use, then you must have a sh*tload of spare cash laying around to
>> afford all that wood.
>
>Thank you Sir!
>
>Book cases, both sets, the walnut and oak bed, the Murphy bed, the two
>walnut night tables, and one of the jewelery chests were for customers.

Yabbut, that Bridge of Sighs bedroom ensemble must have set you back
three truck payments. I'm surprised you're not picketed by insane
tree huggers. (is that last part redundant?)

--
The business of America is not business. Neither is it war. The business
of America is justice and securing the blessings of liberty.
-- George F. Will

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:48:47 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>
>> Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>
>> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>> alignment procedure.
>
>You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
>examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.

As strident as he is in his writings, I'm wondering if it's not a
brand new Wreck Troll that Leon has on the line now. Keep your gaff
and net handy; Leon might need some help landing that one.


>IOW, put up, or STFU ...

Don't hold back now, Swingy. <g>

--
The business of America is not business. Neither is it war. The business
of America is justice and securing the blessings of liberty.
-- George F. Will

On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:

> Yet MORE nonsense !!!

> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
> alignment procedure.

You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.

IOW, put up, or STFU ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 13:34:20 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 8/13/2012 1:19 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:48:47 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/13/2012 12:22 PM, "<<<__ Bøb __>>>" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet MORE nonsense !!!
>>>
>>>> I have BOTH experience AND reading comprehension skills ... STILL
>>>> WAITING for you to give us the details of your magic perfection
>>>> alignment procedure.
>>>
>>> You have now proven all the above to be highly suspect, lets see some
>>> examples of this 55 years of woodworking experience.
>>
>> As strident as he is in his writings, I'm wondering if it's not a
>> brand new Wreck Troll that Leon has on the line now. Keep your gaff
>> and net handy; Leon might need some help landing that one.
>
>I could be wrong here Larry but I think a troll usually does the
>fishing/trolling. I think I may have swallowed the hook.

Right you are. I endoed on that one.

--
The business of America is not business. Neither is it war. The business
of America is justice and securing the blessings of liberty.
-- George F. Will