I'm finally getting to putting together a review of my AKEDA dovetail
jig
and happened to check the price on the WoodCraft site. When I bought
it - on a "closeout deal", the jig and the "DC Accessories Kit" was
$400.
The current "closeout deal" for the same package is now down to
$339.99 (don't you just love the 9.99 thing? Would $340 be too steep
to buy - but if it's ONLY $339.99 - well hell - give me TWO!).
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4406&mode=details
TheJigStore has the same complete jig package - for $329.99.
And - if you JUST HAVE TO HAVE a jig that'll do TWENTY FOUR
INCH WIDE BOARDS! check out the 24 inch model of the AKEDA.
http://www.thejigstore.com/products.php?typ=akeda_products
If you're considering getting a variable spacing dovetail jig that'll do
through and half blind dovetails and box joints - and half blinds in
rabbeted/rebated drawer fronts- and sliding dovetails - this Jig
and EVERYTHING You Can Stick On It package deal is worth looking into.
The AKEDA is a Third Generation router based dovetail jig sytem,
the LEIGH being a Second Generation router based dovetail jig
system. It is an extremely well thought out, well designed, well
made system that works well and is easy to use (like all dovetail
jigs, getting the bits set right DOES require some test cuts,
regardless what the ads and brochure say, or imply)
I've put up the pages I'm "almost done with" and will be revising
and cleaning things up over the next week or so. But what's
up has a LOT of subtle, but important, things about this jig
that make it different - and IMHO - better - than ANY other
variable spacing dovetail jig out there.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/AKEDAdtJig/AKEDAdovetailJig1.html
Disclaimer: I have NO connection with AKEDA, any outfit that
sells it and paid the going price at the time for the AKEDA I have.
charlie b
On Feb 14, 2:16 pm, charlieb <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm finally getting to putting together a review of my AKEDA dovetail
> jig
> and happened to check the price on the WoodCraft site.
I finally got some input on why WoodCraft was dropping the Akeda
line. I actually read a press release online and then fconfirmed it
with my buddy at WC. The Akeda folks were unhappy with the price WC
was selling their products and felt like their markup cut them out of
a larger section of the market. I can see how that would be since The
Jigstore offers the same package for less than WC, even when WC is
supposed to have closeout pricing in effect.
> I've put up the pages I'm "almost done with" and will be revising
> and cleaning things up over the next week or so. But what's
> up has a LOT of subtle, but important, things about this jig
> that make it different - and IMHO - better - than ANY other
> variable spacing dovetail jig out there.
I have been window shopping this unit
http://tinyurl.com/ywoqmz
and it seems to have a lot of the same features you are describing,
plus the added benefit of coming with some of the bits you need to get
started. Reviews are sparse on this new Leigh, but the comments I
have read have all been raves.
I was just wondering how the Superjigs would stack up against the
Akedas. It seems feature for feature there are a lot of
similarities. Any thoughts on how these two might compare?
As always Charlie, your reviews are the best. Thanks for lending your
analytical mind to the rest of us.
Robert
charlieb wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> So it sounds like the Akeda is better in this regard. I don't know
>> if it's $350 better.
>
>
> Unless the LEIGH jigs are free - and give you $20 back the
> difference, if there is one (I haven't priced the LEIGH jigs) IS NOT
> $350.
I think LEGEND56 was talking about getting an Akeda in addition to the
money he's already spent on the Leigh.
Chris
charlieb wrote:
> Yup. Better if the jig does more and you have to do less. And the
> more moving parts, the greater the opportunity for error. The AKEDA
> "snap in" in discrete 1/8th inch increments pin and tail guides
> eliminate the "cut and then flip" issues.
The main question I had about the Akeda is around the durability of
those snap-in plastic guides. In 10 years will they still snap in with
no play, or will they wear somewhat and slip around enough to cause
problems?
Chris
RicodJour wrote:
> Akeda _should_ be paying you for such a detailed review, Charlie.
I hope that some of the details I provided give a person who's
looking into getting a dovetail jig some of the Devil's In The
Details
details to look for and ask about. They're potential "challenges"
that can make the actual use of a jig quite different from what
the marketing department puts out trying to get you to buy
their product.
> However, there is an unfortunate aspect of that review. Your timing
> sucks - I want one and I've already ordered my Valentine's Day gift to
> myself! ;)
But wouldn't it be nice to have a back up jig, just in case your main
jig gets a flat, or blows a head gasket? They make TWO car garages,
so why not a Two Dovetail Jigs Shop?
> Keep up the good work.
When I get a tool, or jig, that does some common woodworking
task easier, or does it in an interesting new way, I study it. How
does it do it, why they designed it this way instead of that way,
what are it's strengths - and weaknesses. Then I play with it
and go back over what I got from studying it first - then revise
what I found out, or theorized, before I used it.
During the Studying It phase I make diagrams, some at scale,
some just illustrating something as I understand it.. That stuff
gets revised after using the tool or jig and updated as I gain
more experience with it - and find "challenges" I hadn't found
before. And in the process I develop a better understanding
of the tool or jig and how it is best used. The amount of time
and effort to put that stuff on a few web pages is no big deal.
If it helps someone else - well that's gravy.
If it's work - I'm out of here. But if it's fun and I learn
something
worth sharing . . .
charlie b
[email protected] wrote:
> I have one of the newer Leigh Supers, and I've been happy enough with it on
> thicker stock, but have been having big problems on thin, narrow stock for
> jewelry box drawers. I haven't completely figured it out yet, but it seems like
> when I bring the fingers so they actually touch each other there is some error
> that doesn't cancel out. I don't quite get it because there's no way the bit
> could be out of center in the bushing by as much error as I was getting.
>
> So a few specific questions if you don't mind:
>
> 1) What is the minimum board width to get 2 tails with a through dovetail?
This is what I think you mean - pardon the ASCII diagram but a
picture
of what we're talking about helps.
____ ____
_\ /__\ /_
| |
Well that depends on the size of the "half pins" on each end
you're
comforatble with. I can tell you that with three tail guides in
the jig
the distance between the center of the end sockets centerlines is
2.005 inches (2 1/128" or 50.93 mm). With the AKEDA, the bottom
of the FULL tail sockets is ALWAYS 1/2", regardless of the bit's
dovetail
angle, 7, 9, 11,14 or 20 degrees.
Now the reality is that if you make the bottom of the tail socket
truly
HALF of the dovetail bit's bottom diameter, the fat end of the
"half pin"
will be half of the dovetail socket's bottom width of 1/2" -or
1/4".
That doesn't leave much wood on the thin end of the half pin.
So let's say rather than a "half pin" you go with a "5/8 pin" one
on each end. 0.625 x 0.5 = 0.3125 or 21/64" per half pin, two
half pins comes to 0.625" or 5/8ths inches.
The minimum distance between the centerlines of two tail sockets
is 1".
So - for two 5/8ths "half pins" plus one "full" tail socket you
get
1 5/8" minimum width - for thin stock - ie 1/4" thick. BUT - as
the thickness of the stock goes up the minimum width of the part
has to go up - determined by how narrow the thin end of the pin
you are comfortable with.
Because the bottom of ALL the AKEDA's full sockets are ALWAYS
1/2" wide - by design - given one of the five dovetail bit angles
-
you can mathematically or graphically work out the miminim board
width, given the number of full pins you want to go with and how
wide you want the bottom of the half pins on the ends to be.
> My drawer fronts are 1/4" and 1-5/8" wide. The Akeda site says 1-1/4"
> but that is pretty meaningless without context. Leigh says 7/8" for example.
>
> 2) Is clamping in a backer board basically the same as with the
> Leigh? The manual talks about it but there are no illustrations.
Any time your routing a part set vertically - which you do for both
parts of a through dovetail joint, it's wise to have wood behind the
area being routed to minimize or eliminate tear out a the back of
the part. It's easy enough to slide a piece of stock in the jig
horizontally and clamp it down. Routing into that end grain is
a bit unusual - but no big deal.
>
> The only beef I have with the Leigh on "normal" size stock is the
> whole positioning of everything is prone to error, particularly when
> you make the flip from tails to pins.
Yup. Better if the jig does more and you have to do less. And the
more moving parts, the greater the opportunity for error. The
AKEDA "snap in" in discrete 1/8th inch increments pin and tail
guides
eliminate the "cut and then flip" issues.
As for "normal size" - there ain't no such thing - with wood.
"About"
(half or three quarters) is what you play with in The Real World.
With
the AKEDA there are only two moving parts on the jig - the two
clamps
- everything else is fixed (the variable spacing guides another
exception
of course.
> When you tighten the guide finger assembly back down the whole thing
> can shift laterally, and the stops are a LONG way away from the business
> end of things so even though I know the two pieces are going to FIT, I'm
> just HOPING they line up.
Yup again. More moving parts, more opportunities to either move them
to the wrong place, or move from where you originally put them. All
that is gone with the AKEDA.
> It leaves something to be desired. I figured the more expensive
> Leigh's were better in this regard, the whole super jig is bit underwhelming.
That's what happens when you start out with an idea that has several
inherent shortcomings and rather than start over and do it right,
keep
adapting the original idea. Some of the problems identified in
version
1.0 can be "fixed" with add ons and "accessories" that should have
been
thought of in the design phase become "standard equiptment" on
version
2.0. The LEIGH dovetail jigs are Second Generation router based
dovetail
jigs. The AKEDA is the first of the Third Generation jigs.
> So it sounds like the Akeda is better in this regard. I don't know if it's $350 better.
Unless the LEIGH jigs are free - and give you $20 back the
difference,
if there is one (I haven't priced the LEIGH jigs) IS NOT $350.
What are the LEIGH 16" jigs going for - loaded - not PLUS the cost
of
the "accessories"?
GREAT QUESTIONS. Am working on putting the question and answers
on the AKEDA pages I'm still working on. Thanks
charlie b
[email protected] wrote:
> I have been window shopping this unit
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ywoqmz
The 12" LEIGH SuperJig, with all the accessories included package
is $319.99 and I assume that's with EVERYTHING.
The 18" LEIGH SuperJig loaded package prices is $389.99
The 24" SJ complete package appears to be $449.99
The AKEDA 16" loaded is $339.99 at Woodcraft as a close out
deal. So compared to the 12" SJ, the AKEDA gives you four
more inches of width capacity FOR FREE.
The 18" SJ gives you 2 more inches of width capacity - for another
$60. Is $30 per inch of added width capacity worth it?
The AKEDA 24" loaded package (P/N 2400-3100-3800) at
The Jig Store is $499.99, about $50 more than the 24" SJ.
IS $50 going to be your only criteria when it comes to deciding
between the AKEDA and LEIGH Super Jig 24" models?
Other telling things to compare
1. One only needs a 43 page manual - and the pages are a bit
wider but shorter (5 1/2 x 13" vs 8 x10) vs a 163 page
manual. Do you want to read - or cut dovetails?
2. Do you enjoy flipping things around, locking stuff down,
adjusting several things - or do you prefer making dovetails
3. Do you want to use a Second Generation router based
dovetail jig - or a Third Generation router based dovetail
jig.
There are plenty of woodworkers who love making jigs and
setting up and tweeking tools. I'm not one of them. Are you?
charlie b
> and it seems to have a lot of the same features you are describing,
> plus the added benefit of coming with some of the bits you need to get
> started. Reviews are sparse on this new Leigh, but the comments I
> have read have all been raves.
The AKEDA 16" loaded (EVERYTHING) package is $329.99
The AKEDA 16 package deal comes with ALL the accessories - guides,
dust collector and ALL the router bits- for $330 - complete.
The Jig Store has the AKEDA 24" complete package for, IIRC
$389.99.
>
> I was just wondering how the Superjigs would stack up against the
> Akedas. It seems feature for feature there are a lot of
> similarities. Any thoughts on how these two might compare?
>
> As always Charlie, your reviews are the best. Thanks for lending your
> analytical mind to the rest of us.
>
> Robert
B A R R Y wrote:
> Has the tool been discontinued?
The original AKEDA DC 16 is still in production and on the market.
It apears that WoodCraft is closing them out because they're
no longer carrying AKEDA though The Jig Store is.
The New and Improved models appear to use 8mm (0.315") shank
bits rather than 1/4" (0.25") shanks and come with an adapter
to fit 1/2" router collets - the added 0.065" inches of shank
diameter - a 25% increase which means a stronger, more ridgid
bit. It's not clear if that change requires different pin and tail
guide sets.
charlie b
Chris Friesen wrote:
>
> charlieb wrote:
> The main question I had about the Akeda is around the durability of
> those snap-in plastic guides. In 10 years will they still snap in with
> no play, or will they wear somewhat and slip around enough to cause
> problems?
The "plastic guides" are made of a special synthetic - "plastics"
have come a long way in the last 15 or 20 years so don't think
"plastic = cheap or plastic = short lived. The guy who came up
with the AKEDA is an industrial designer who stays up on current
manufacturing technology - machines, materials and methods.
As with any moving parts, there will be wear and tear over time
if used. Ifyou're concered about that you can buy spares of
what you use the most and save them for a rainy day. If you're
anything like me - FINDING them later will be the real challenge :)
charlie b
On Feb 15, 5:51 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Has the tool been discontinued?
See above - only at Woodcraft. Akeda is alive and well.
Robert
"charlieb" wrote
> before. And in the process I develop a better understanding
> of the tool or jig and how it is best used. The amount of time
> and effort to put that stuff on a few web pages is no big deal.
> If it helps someone else - well that's gravy.
For the item's covered your reviews are undoubtedly one of the best
resources available to wRec participants.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
charlieb wrote:
> I'm finally getting to putting together a review of my AKEDA dovetail
> jig
> and happened to check the price on the WoodCraft site. When I bought
> it - on a "closeout deal", the jig and the "DC Accessories Kit" was
> $400.
> The current "closeout deal" for the same package is now down to
> $339.99 (don't you just love the 9.99 thing? Would $340 be too steep
> to buy - but if it's ONLY $339.99 - well hell - give me TWO!).
>
Has the tool been discontinued?
On Feb 14, 3:16 pm, charlieb <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm finally getting to putting together a review of my AKEDA dovetail
> jig
> and happened to check the price on the WoodCraft site. When I bought
> it - on a "closeout deal", the jig and the "DC Accessories Kit" was
> $400.
> The current "closeout deal" for the same package is now down to
> $339.99 (don't you just love the 9.99 thing? Would $340 be too steep
> to buy - but if it's ONLY $339.99 - well hell - give me TWO!).
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4406&mode=details
>
> TheJigStore has the same complete jig package - for $329.99.
> And - if you JUST HAVE TO HAVE a jig that'll do TWENTY FOUR
> INCH WIDE BOARDS! check out the 24 inch model of the AKEDA.
>
> http://www.thejigstore.com/products.php?typ=akeda_products
>
> If you're considering getting a variable spacing dovetail jig that'll do
> through and half blind dovetails and box joints - and half blinds in
> rabbeted/rebated drawer fronts- and sliding dovetails - this Jig
> and EVERYTHING You Can Stick On It package deal is worth looking into.
>
> The AKEDA is a Third Generation router based dovetail jig sytem,
> the LEIGH being a Second Generation router based dovetail jig
> system. It is an extremely well thought out, well designed, well
> made system that works well and is easy to use (like all dovetail
> jigs, getting the bits set right DOES require some test cuts,
> regardless what the ads and brochure say, or imply)
>
> I've put up the pages I'm "almost done with" and will be revising
> and cleaning things up over the next week or so. But what's
> up has a LOT of subtle, but important, things about this jig
> that make it different - and IMHO - better - than ANY other
> variable spacing dovetail jig out there.
>
> http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/AKEDAdtJig/AKEDAdovetailJig1.html
>
> Disclaimer: I have NO connection with AKEDA, any outfit that
> sells it and paid the going price at the time for the AKEDA I have.
Akeda _should_ be paying you for such a detailed review, Charlie.
However, there is an unfortunate aspect of that review. Your timing
sucks - I want one and I've already ordered my Valentine's Day gift to
myself! ;)
Keep up the good work.
R
On Feb 14, 3:16 pm, charlieb <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm finally getting to putting together a review of my AKEDA dovetail
> jig
> and happened to check the price on the WoodCraft site. When I bought
> it - on a "closeout deal", the jig and the "DC Accessories Kit" was
> $400.
> The current "closeout deal" for the same package is now down to
> $339.99 (don't you just love the 9.99 thing? Would $340 be too steep
> to buy - but if it's ONLY $339.99 - well hell - give me TWO!).
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4406&mode=details
>
> TheJigStore has the same complete jig package - for $329.99.
> And - if you JUST HAVE TO HAVE a jig that'll do TWENTY FOUR
> INCH WIDE BOARDS! check out the 24 inch model of the AKEDA.
>
> http://www.thejigstore.com/products.php?typ=akeda_products
>
> If you're considering getting a variable spacing dovetail jig that'll do
> through and half blind dovetails and box joints - and half blinds in
> rabbeted/rebated drawer fronts- and sliding dovetails - this Jig
> and EVERYTHING You Can Stick On It package deal is worth looking into.
I have one of the newer Leigh Supers, and I've been happy enough with
it on
thicker stock, but have been having big problems on thin, narrow stock
for
jewelry box drawers. I haven't completely figured it out yet, but it
seems like
when I bring the fingers so they actually touch each other there is
some error
that doesn't cancel out. I don't quite get it because there's no way
the bit
could be out of center in the bushing by as much error as I was
getting.
So a few specific questions if you don't mind:
1) What is the minimum board width to get 2 tails with a through
dovetail?
My drawer fronts are 1/4" and 1-5/8" wide. The Akeda site says 1-1/4"
but that
is pretty meaningless without context. Leigh says 7/8" for example.
2) Is clamping in a backer board basically the same as with the
Leigh? The
manual talks about it but there are no illustrations.
The only beef I have with the Leigh on "normal" size stock is the
whole positioning
of everything is prone to error, particularly when you make the flip
from tails to pins.
When you tighten the guide finger assembly back down the whole thing
can shift
laterally, and the stops are a LONG way away from the business end of
things so
even though I know the two pieces are going to FIT, I'm just HOPING
they line up.
It leaves something to be desired. I figured the more expensive
Leigh's were
better in this regard, the whole super jig is bit underwhelming. So
it sounds like
the Akeda is better in this regard. I don't know if it's $350 better.
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:28:51 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 15, 5:51 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Has the tool been discontinued?
>
>See above - only at Woodcraft. Akeda is alive and well.
Great!
On Feb 15, 6:13 pm, charlieb <[email protected]> wrote:
<snipping a lot of detailed response - thank you!>
> So - for two 5/8ths "half pins" plus one "full" tail socket you get
> 1 5/8" minimum width - for thin stock - ie 1/4" thick. BUT - as
> the thickness of the stock goes up the minimum width of the part
> has to go up - determined by how narrow the thin end of the pin
> you are comfortable with.
>
> Because the bottom of ALL the AKEDA's full sockets are ALWAYS
> 1/2" wide - by design - given one of the five dovetail bit angles
Okay, sounds like I could only get one tail on it, and I don't like
that.
I'm willing to change methods to get faster production or better
results,
but I'm not going to sacrifice quality from what I could do at the
band saw.
> > 2) Is clamping in a backer board basically the same as with the
> > Leigh? The manual talks about it but there are no illustrations.
>
> Any time your routing a part set vertically - which you do for both
> parts of a through dovetail joint, it's wise to have wood behind the
> area being routed to minimize or eliminate tear out a the back of
> the part. It's easy enough to slide a piece of stock in the jig
> horizontally and clamp it down. Routing into that end grain is
> a bit unusual - but no big deal.
Okay same as the Leigh.
> > The only beef I have with the Leigh on "normal" size stock is the
> > whole positioning of everything is prone to error, particularly when
> > you make the flip from tails to pins.
> As for "normal size" - there ain't no such thing - with wood.
I just mean that the jigs are mainly designed to handle 3/4" stock.
The Leigh wants to use a 1/2" dovetail bit. You can use a smaller
bit, and the pins get smaller, but you just end up with bigger tails
when you get down into the minimum spacing. When I use thin
stock I want the spacing to get proportionally smaller, not larger.
> Unless the LEIGH jigs are free - and give you $20 back the
> difference, if there is one (I haven't priced the LEIGH jigs) IS
> NOT $350.
I meant on top of the Leigh. I have basically two production
setups now. The drawers I already mentioned, just did 40 of those,
and some cedar boxes with 3 different widths but same thickness,
just did 40 total of those too.
It might make sense for me to have two jigs at this point, I could
have
all four setups on the jigs at once. I suppose I'd need 4 routers
then... I can drum sand the stock to the exact thickness each
run if I wanted to. It's a lot of $$$ and a chunk of shop space.
Thanks again for the response!
Swingman wrote:
> "charlieb" wrote
>
>> before. And in the process I develop a better understanding
>> of the tool or jig and how it is best used. The amount of time
>> and effort to put that stuff on a few web pages is no big deal.
>> If it helps someone else - well that's gravy.
>
> For the item's covered your reviews are undoubtedly one of the best
> resources available to wRec participants.
>
Yes, they are. And they're invaluable. Thanks charlie
--
Tanus
www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/
[email protected] wrote:
>> The current "closeout deal" for the same package is now down to
>> $339.99 (don't you just love the 9.99 thing? Would $340 be too steep
>> to buy - but if it's ONLY $339.99 - well hell - give me TWO!).
It's been proven that the fewer zeros in a price, the more likely people
are to buy the item. This is particularly true of real estate.