(New subscriber) Latest and greatest tools, and old-time tools

Wrong - you like doing "it" as much as ever. It's the other baloney that became part of the package that stinks. Administrative tasks. Collecting on bills. Dealing with difficult or downright unreasonable customers. Here are words to live by:

Every job sucks when it's yours.

Work is work. That's why they call it "work" - if it were that much fun, we'd have to pay our bosses to let us do it.

On 12/7/2013 8:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 18:54:53 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>> Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
>> what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
>> living.
>
> I agree. Everything that I liked to do that led me into doing it for a
> living all reduced how much I liked doing it.
>
Been there done that.

That's why I am reluctant to do that with WW, my last relaxation. I
don't worry about how long it will take me to do something, I just plod
along. I do what I want when I want.

When you do it for money, it's different. It's a business.



--
Jeff

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 18:54:53 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
>what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
>living.

I agree. Everything that I liked to do that led me into doing it for a
living all reduced how much I liked doing it.

On 12/8/2013 3:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:17:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/8/2013 9:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:47:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/2013 9:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:54:49 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 5:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:09:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 11:31 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 00:24:47 -0800 (PST), Jeff Mazur
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Weighing in on the runaway Festool train:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I did indeed NOT ask for the most *expensive* tools specifically, BUT if some of the desirable tools that I was asking about happen to be expensive, that's fine, so be it. I'm a big boy and can make sound decisions for myself. I weigh every purchase in the context of what it give me, what it will cost me, and the relative worth of each to me, given my situation and my goals. So if someone says to me, "hey Jeff, you gotta get one of these $1900 routers, they're the cat's ass," I just file it away in the back of my mind as something to check out when I get to the point where I've got $1900 burning a hole in my pocket and I'm feeling I could use a router upgrade.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually, I think we're all like that. We just have different lines
>>>>>>>>> we draw and, of course, different resources available. I can't see
>>>>>>>>> Festering drills or even sanders (yet) but didn't even have (much)
>>>>>>>>> pain with the $500 saw or router or $900 Domino. Those I could *see*
>>>>>>>>> what I was trading for that cash.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One hard lesson I learned some time ago[*] was that I won't settle for
>>>>>>>>> a second-rate tool. It's difficult to justify a new tool if I already
>>>>>>>>> have one. If I can't afford the "best" today, I can wait until
>>>>>>>>> tomorrow. I'd rather wait than spend a decade regretting my decision
>>>>>>>>> every time I pick up the tool.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [*] Lived with Crapsman tools for decades.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning from (most of) this back-and-forth, so hey, carry on and have fun with it!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Talk to me when you think you might consider a Festool sander.
>>>>>>>> Especially the Rotex sanders.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It'll likely be some time. Really, they're about the only other
>>>>>>> Festool I'm looking at. I'm really shy about buying anything where
>>>>>>> there's a lock-in. That's why I grew a beard. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lock-in?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gillette model, without the "free" part.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm still confused, do you feel that a Festool sander would require
>>>> something special to make them run?
>>>
>>> Sandpaper? I can't buy brand-x.
>>>
>>
>> OK, Ill agree. But I really don't spend any more on sand paper than I
>> did when I was using 3M and Porter Cable paper. The Festool paper is
>> superior to a lot of regular sand papers. I probably buy on average of
>> less than 2 boxes a year. I really don't use over 6~8 sheets of paper
>> combined for my finish sander and Rotex on a particular project.
>
> Let me just say that I'm unconvinced. ;-)

I understand, I bought my Rotex on Robatoys recommendation. IMHO it was
worth the investment with simply the efficiency of the dust collection.


>
>> Add to that both sanders used with a vac at all times reduces dust to
>> almost zero, I no longer wear an apron when I sand. A benefit to zero
>> dust is that the paper does not clog as easily as when it is constantly
>> working on the dust and the project too. And when I switched over to
>> Festool paper I did not notice much of a price difference compared to
>> what I was buying. That becomes even less expensive when you factor in
>> the paper lasting 50~100% longer than conventional paper.
>
> The "clogging paper" is probably what I'm missing, though there are
> other similar sanders.

Yeah there are similar sanders but you should really try a Rotex out at
your local dealer when the time comes to buy a replacement. These
sanders can be amazingly aggressive, just short of what a belt sander
will do, or in TOS mode quite smooth.





>
>> Not trying to sell you, just letting you know that the price of the
>> paper is not a concern to me since it is less expensive in the long run.
>
> Sure. I appreciate it. I keep looking at them but haven't convinced
> myself that they deserve a place high enough on my wish list to ever
> make the cut. ;-)
>
Just don't try one out till you are in the market. ;~)

On 12/9/2013 11:47 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 12/9/2013 2:19 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/8/2013 3:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:17:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/8/2013 9:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:47:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 9:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:54:49 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 5:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:09:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 11:31 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 00:24:47 -0800 (PST), Jeff Mazur
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Weighing in on the runaway Festool train:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I did indeed NOT ask for the most *expensive* tools
>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically, BUT if some of the desirable tools that I was
>>>>>>>>>>>> asking about happen to be expensive, that's fine, so be it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a big boy and can make sound decisions for myself. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> weigh every purchase in the context of what it give me, what
>>>>>>>>>>>> it will cost me, and the relative worth of each to me, given
>>>>>>>>>>>> my situation and my goals. So if someone says to me, "hey
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff, you gotta get one of these $1900 routers, they're the
>>>>>>>>>>>> cat's ass," I just file it away in the back of my mind as
>>>>>>>>>>>> something to check out when I get to the point where I've got
>>>>>>>>>>>> $1900 burning a hole in my pocket and I'm feeling I could use
>>>>>>>>>>>> a router upgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, I think we're all like that. We just have different
>>>>>>>>>>> lines
>>>>>>>>>>> we draw and, of course, different resources available. I
>>>>>>>>>>> can't see
>>>>>>>>>>> Festering drills or even sanders (yet) but didn't even have
>>>>>>>>>>> (much)
>>>>>>>>>>> pain with the $500 saw or router or $900 Domino. Those I
>>>>>>>>>>> could *see*
>>>>>>>>>>> what I was trading for that cash.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One hard lesson I learned some time ago[*] was that I won't
>>>>>>>>>>> settle for
>>>>>>>>>>> a second-rate tool. It's difficult to justify a new tool if I
>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>> have one. If I can't afford the "best" today, I can wait until
>>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow. I'd rather wait than spend a decade regretting my
>>>>>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>>>>>> every time I pick up the tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [*] Lived with Crapsman tools for decades.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning from (most of) this back-and-forth, so hey,
>>>>>>>>>>>> carry on and have fun with it!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Talk to me when you think you might consider a Festool sander.
>>>>>>>>>> Especially the Rotex sanders.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It'll likely be some time. Really, they're about the only other
>>>>>>>>> Festool I'm looking at. I'm really shy about buying anything
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> there's a lock-in. That's why I grew a beard. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lock-in?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gillette model, without the "free" part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still confused, do you feel that a Festool sander would require
>>>>>> something special to make them run?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sandpaper? I can't buy brand-x.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, Ill agree. But I really don't spend any more on sand paper than I
>>>> did when I was using 3M and Porter Cable paper. The Festool paper is
>>>> superior to a lot of regular sand papers. I probably buy on average of
>>>> less than 2 boxes a year. I really don't use over 6~8 sheets of paper
>>>> combined for my finish sander and Rotex on a particular project.
>>>
>>> Let me just say that I'm unconvinced. ;-)
>>
>> I understand, I bought my Rotex on Robatoys recommendation. IMHO it was
>> worth the investment with simply the efficiency of the dust collection.
>
> I do not understand that. With a vac connected to either my bosch
> quarter paper sander or my pc ROS both are close to 100% efficiency on
> dust. The ROS a little less, but the 1/4 is almost 100%
>
> So why would I spend that kind of money...

You might start by asking Swingman why he switched from a Bosch ROS to a
Rotex.

With dust collection being equal to what you have, the Rotex set to
aggressive mode will just about keep up with a belt sander with lots
more control.


Take your ROS sander and a rough cut piece of wood to your local Festool
dealer and ask to compare the two in your own hands. Use the Rotex in
normal and aggressive mode. For some of us time is money.

On 12/9/2013 1:50 PM, Leon wrote:

> You might start by asking Swingman why he switched from a Bosch ROS to a
> Rotex.

Ayup ... almost immediately gave the Bosch away, and, until you
mentioned it, plumb forgot I indeed have a belt sander, I think?

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/9/2013 2:19 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/8/2013 3:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:17:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/8/2013 9:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:47:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/7/2013 9:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:54:49 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 5:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:09:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 11:31 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 00:24:47 -0800 (PST), Jeff Mazur
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Weighing in on the runaway Festool train:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I did indeed NOT ask for the most *expensive* tools
>>>>>>>>>>> specifically, BUT if some of the desirable tools that I was
>>>>>>>>>>> asking about happen to be expensive, that's fine, so be it.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a big boy and can make sound decisions for myself. I
>>>>>>>>>>> weigh every purchase in the context of what it give me, what
>>>>>>>>>>> it will cost me, and the relative worth of each to me, given
>>>>>>>>>>> my situation and my goals. So if someone says to me, "hey
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff, you gotta get one of these $1900 routers, they're the
>>>>>>>>>>> cat's ass," I just file it away in the back of my mind as
>>>>>>>>>>> something to check out when I get to the point where I've got
>>>>>>>>>>> $1900 burning a hole in my pocket and I'm feeling I could use
>>>>>>>>>>> a router upgrade.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, I think we're all like that. We just have different
>>>>>>>>>> lines
>>>>>>>>>> we draw and, of course, different resources available. I
>>>>>>>>>> can't see
>>>>>>>>>> Festering drills or even sanders (yet) but didn't even have
>>>>>>>>>> (much)
>>>>>>>>>> pain with the $500 saw or router or $900 Domino. Those I
>>>>>>>>>> could *see*
>>>>>>>>>> what I was trading for that cash.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One hard lesson I learned some time ago[*] was that I won't
>>>>>>>>>> settle for
>>>>>>>>>> a second-rate tool. It's difficult to justify a new tool if I
>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>> have one. If I can't afford the "best" today, I can wait until
>>>>>>>>>> tomorrow. I'd rather wait than spend a decade regretting my
>>>>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>>>>> every time I pick up the tool.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [*] Lived with Crapsman tools for decades.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm learning from (most of) this back-and-forth, so hey,
>>>>>>>>>>> carry on and have fun with it!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Talk to me when you think you might consider a Festool sander.
>>>>>>>>> Especially the Rotex sanders.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It'll likely be some time. Really, they're about the only other
>>>>>>>> Festool I'm looking at. I'm really shy about buying anything where
>>>>>>>> there's a lock-in. That's why I grew a beard. ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lock-in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gillette model, without the "free" part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still confused, do you feel that a Festool sander would require
>>>>> something special to make them run?
>>>>
>>>> Sandpaper? I can't buy brand-x.
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK, Ill agree. But I really don't spend any more on sand paper than I
>>> did when I was using 3M and Porter Cable paper. The Festool paper is
>>> superior to a lot of regular sand papers. I probably buy on average of
>>> less than 2 boxes a year. I really don't use over 6~8 sheets of paper
>>> combined for my finish sander and Rotex on a particular project.
>>
>> Let me just say that I'm unconvinced. ;-)
>
> I understand, I bought my Rotex on Robatoys recommendation. IMHO it was
> worth the investment with simply the efficiency of the dust collection.

I do not understand that. With a vac connected to either my bosch
quarter paper sander or my pc ROS both are close to 100% efficiency on
dust. The ROS a little less, but the 1/4 is almost 100%

So why would I spend that kind of money...
>
>
>>
>>> Add to that both sanders used with a vac at all times reduces dust to
>>> almost zero, I no longer wear an apron when I sand. A benefit to zero
>>> dust is that the paper does not clog as easily as when it is constantly
>>> working on the dust and the project too. And when I switched over to
>>> Festool paper I did not notice much of a price difference compared to
>>> what I was buying. That becomes even less expensive when you factor in
>>> the paper lasting 50~100% longer than conventional paper.
>>
>> The "clogging paper" is probably what I'm missing, though there are
>> other similar sanders.
>
> Yeah there are similar sanders but you should really try a Rotex out at
> your local dealer when the time comes to buy a replacement. These
> sanders can be amazingly aggressive, just short of what a belt sander
> will do, or in TOS mode quite smooth.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>> Not trying to sell you, just letting you know that the price of the
>>> paper is not a concern to me since it is less expensive in the long run.
>>
>> Sure. I appreciate it. I keep looking at them but haven't convinced
>> myself that they deserve a place high enough on my wish list to ever
>> make the cut. ;-)
>>
> Just don't try one out till you are in the market. ;~)


--
Jeff

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:17:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/8/2013 9:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:47:40 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/7/2013 9:38 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:54:49 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/7/2013 5:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:09:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/7/2013 11:31 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 00:24:47 -0800 (PST), Jeff Mazur
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Weighing in on the runaway Festool train:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did indeed NOT ask for the most *expensive* tools specifically, BUT if some of the desirable tools that I was asking about happen to be expensive, that's fine, so be it. I'm a big boy and can make sound decisions for myself. I weigh every purchase in the context of what it give me, what it will cost me, and the relative worth of each to me, given my situation and my goals. So if someone says to me, "hey Jeff, you gotta get one of these $1900 routers, they're the cat's ass," I just file it away in the back of my mind as something to check out when I get to the point where I've got $1900 burning a hole in my pocket and I'm feeling I could use a router upgrade.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually, I think we're all like that. We just have different lines
>>>>>>>> we draw and, of course, different resources available. I can't see
>>>>>>>> Festering drills or even sanders (yet) but didn't even have (much)
>>>>>>>> pain with the $500 saw or router or $900 Domino. Those I could *see*
>>>>>>>> what I was trading for that cash.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One hard lesson I learned some time ago[*] was that I won't settle for
>>>>>>>> a second-rate tool. It's difficult to justify a new tool if I already
>>>>>>>> have one. If I can't afford the "best" today, I can wait until
>>>>>>>> tomorrow. I'd rather wait than spend a decade regretting my decision
>>>>>>>> every time I pick up the tool.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [*] Lived with Crapsman tools for decades.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm learning from (most of) this back-and-forth, so hey, carry on and have fun with it!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Talk to me when you think you might consider a Festool sander.
>>>>>>> Especially the Rotex sanders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It'll likely be some time. Really, they're about the only other
>>>>>> Festool I'm looking at. I'm really shy about buying anything where
>>>>>> there's a lock-in. That's why I grew a beard. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Lock-in?
>>>>
>>>> Gillette model, without the "free" part.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm still confused, do you feel that a Festool sander would require
>>> something special to make them run?
>>
>> Sandpaper? I can't buy brand-x.
>>
>
>OK, Ill agree. But I really don't spend any more on sand paper than I
>did when I was using 3M and Porter Cable paper. The Festool paper is
>superior to a lot of regular sand papers. I probably buy on average of
>less than 2 boxes a year. I really don't use over 6~8 sheets of paper
>combined for my finish sander and Rotex on a particular project.

Let me just say that I'm unconvinced. ;-)

>Add to that both sanders used with a vac at all times reduces dust to
>almost zero, I no longer wear an apron when I sand. A benefit to zero
>dust is that the paper does not clog as easily as when it is constantly
>working on the dust and the project too. And when I switched over to
>Festool paper I did not notice much of a price difference compared to
>what I was buying. That becomes even less expensive when you factor in
>the paper lasting 50~100% longer than conventional paper.

The "clogging paper" is probably what I'm missing, though there are
other similar sanders.

>Not trying to sell you, just letting you know that the price of the
>paper is not a concern to me since it is less expensive in the long run.

Sure. I appreciate it. I keep looking at them but haven't convinced
myself that they deserve a place high enough on my wish list to ever
make the cut. ;-)

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:10:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/6/2013 1:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:44:44 -0500, knuttle
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/6/2013 12:17 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 12/6/2013 9:05 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
>>>>>> disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
>>>>>> your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
>>>>>> chance.
>>>>>
>>>>> AAMOF ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting of FIG is being planned as we
>>>>> speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you have seen from last years meeting:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aEbT6JNyhT4nTtz_YffNmtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mandatory innoculation with the Medical Grade shellac thinner has been
>>>>> scientifically determined to sufficiently mitigate the effects of FBD,
>>>>> with a yearly booster mandatory.
>>>>
>>>> Its Festool season! Get you free FBD shots.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It appears that this years Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting
>>>>> will be between Christmas and New Years, more than likely 12/28-29th.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any wRec'er who will be in the Houston area at that time is hereby
>>>>> invited to attend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Attendees getting their first shot are required to bring the appropriate
>>>>> Medical Grade (Blanton's, etc) shellac thinner. (Mr Bridges, is
>>>>> requested to provide his DD).
>>>>
>>>> DD?
>>>>
>>>
>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>
>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>> same sentence.
>>
>>
>Well AAMOF.. LOL When I bought my Rotex sander from my local WoodCraft
>store the Festool rep was in there promoting the product. I was there
>to buy it anyway but he gave me 2 Festool caps and 2 Festool t-shirts.
>Good to bring your wife to double up on the give away stuff. ;~)

I feel cheated. I bought my Domino when they had a demo-day. It was
totally coincidental that I was there that day. Since the Woodcraft
store is an hour away, on the opposite side of Atlanta, we don't get
there very often. I didn't get a hat! <snif> Well, I suppose I did
get a Coke.

On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>
>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>> same sentence.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>> wallet"
>
> OK, I think I got it, now.
>
> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
> ...or maybe...
> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
> garage."
>
> Like that?
>



Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
helped me make more money.

On 12/6/2013 4:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:10:30 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2013 1:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:44:44 -0500, knuttle
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2013 12:17 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 12/6/2013 9:05 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/5/2013 11:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, but you're suffering from a fatal infection of Festool brain
>>>>>>> disease. Every Festool that you put your hands on immediately infects
>>>>>>> your central nervous system. The other tools just don't stand a
>>>>>>> chance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AAMOF ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting of FIG is being planned as we
>>>>>> speak.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you have seen from last years meeting:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aEbT6JNyhT4nTtz_YffNmtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mandatory innoculation with the Medical Grade shellac thinner has been
>>>>>> scientifically determined to sufficiently mitigate the effects of FBD,
>>>>>> with a yearly booster mandatory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its Festool season! Get you free FBD shots.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears that this years Annual (Inoculation/Booster Shot) meeting
>>>>>> will be between Christmas and New Years, more than likely 12/28-29th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any wRec'er who will be in the Houston area at that time is hereby
>>>>>> invited to attend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Attendees getting their first shot are required to bring the appropriate
>>>>>> Medical Grade (Blanton's, etc) shellac thinner. (Mr Bridges, is
>>>>>> requested to provide his DD).
>>>>>
>>>>> DD?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>
>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>> same sentence.
>>>
>>>
>> Well AAMOF.. LOL When I bought my Rotex sander from my local WoodCraft
>> store the Festool rep was in there promoting the product. I was there
>> to buy it anyway but he gave me 2 Festool caps and 2 Festool t-shirts.
>> Good to bring your wife to double up on the give away stuff. ;~)
>
> I feel cheated. I bought my Domino when they had a demo-day. It was
> totally coincidental that I was there that day. Since the Woodcraft
> store is an hour away, on the opposite side of Atlanta, we don't get
> there very often. I didn't get a hat! <snif> Well, I suppose I did
> get a Coke.
>

The Domino, CT22 Dust Extractor, and Domino tennon assortment were my
first Festool purchases, all at one time. I got squat too.

The Rotex was next, with the free stuff.

Festool finish sander was next, Track saw was next, Drill was next. And
nothing. ;~)

On 12/6/2013 5:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Since the Woodcraft store is an hour away, on the opposite side of Atlanta, we don't
> get there very often.

Yeah, it is a half day trek from where I live south of Atlanta. I got
spoiled in Dallas because I drove by Woodcraft every day on the way to
work. I will say the Atlanta store seems nicer and better stocked, but
I guess it ought to be since it is the only one in GA.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>> same sentence.
>>>
>>>
>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>> wallet"
> OK, I think I got it, now.
>
> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
> ...or maybe...
> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
> garage."
>
> Like that?
Surely what of what one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word,
I didn't think it was, but I checked). One can generally trust a
retailer to know precisely what they are selling, and pricing
accordingly. If one diamond ring was only priced $500 more than
another, it might not appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000,
then people will go wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun
selling things having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify
Festool tools on their features, and some can probably justify them on
other basis. I don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like
anything. YMMV.

Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>> same sentence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>> wallet"
>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>
>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>> ...or maybe...
>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>> garage."
>>
>> Like that?
> Surely what of what
That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.

> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.
>

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>>
>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>
>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>> same sentence.
>>
>>
>
>Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>wallet"

OK, I think I got it, now.

"Festool will free you of paying the rent."
...or maybe...
"If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
garage."

Like that?

On 12/9/2013 9:13 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 12/9/2013 1:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>> But yes you could make a living but you better be pretty efficient,
>> talented and a good businessman.
>
> You forgot the 'good looking' part.
>


Oh yeah, the ruggedly handsome part. LOL

On 12/9/2013 12:02 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 12/9/2013 9:17 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/9/2013 9:13 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 12/9/2013 1:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> But yes you could make a living but you better be pretty efficient,
>>>> talented and a good businessman.
>>>
>>> You forgot the 'good looking' part.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Oh yeah, the ruggedly handsome part. LOL
>
> Just put a comma between pretty and efficient.
>


Punk shoe washion has never been my strong .................

On 12/8/2013 3:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:08:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/8/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:40:25 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/2013 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:13:12 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>>>> garage."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
>>>>>> helped me make more money.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the grungiest tools
>>>>> going. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
>>>>> what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
>>>>> living.
>>>>>
>>>> That is where you screwed up. You have to do it to make money, not a
>>>> living. ;~)
>>>>
>>> OK, they're one and the same. ???
>>>
>>
>> No, not really. I don't make enough money woodworking to support my
>> life style. I have been seriously woodworking for 30 plus years but
>> only in the last 15 or so years have I actually sold my work. Now I
>> make enough to support my woodworking and to have extra left over. I'm
>> pretty picky with whom I build for.
>
> Gotcha. I'll retire soon enough and I'll be free to play all I want.
> I'm really trying to get a shop ready for that day. ;-)
>

You did not get me. LOL I did say that to do it to make money, not a
living. ;~)

But yes you could make a living but you better be pretty efficient,
talented and a good businessman. I stay busy enough with just
referrals, I have always refrained from trying to make a living at it, I
did not want to invest that much into it. Fortunately I was able to
retire at 40. If I had to still earn a living I probably would not be
doing it by building furniture.

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:20:42 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/8/2013 12:26 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>>>>> Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
>>>>> according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
>>>> Nobody makes anything on anything these days. Check how much federal
>>>> income tax was actually paid by your favorite multi-national corporation
>>>> last year. Hint: Just because you can see it in a financial statement
>>>> doesn't mean it was paid.
>>> Well, now we're on a different subject altogether but I'll counter
>>> with "GE". ;-)
>>>
>> Nothing is different about GE (according to my browsing)! Seems like
>> every company which is multi-national is taking advantage of related tax
>> loopholes.

I didn't say they were doing anything illegal, only that they paid
*NO* tax, even though they obviously make money here.

>When a corporation does not follow the law, people are outraged. GE is
>following the existing tax laws and people are still outraged. Blame
>the lawmakers and get them to change the laws.

Well, that and the small problem of who actually writes the laws.

The real issue is that the tax laws have been allowed to get so
perverse that tax lawyers and lobbyists make more money for
corporations than does investing. Fair or flat, is the only choice.

>Oh, don't give that moral obligation crap unless you are paying all your
>taxes and skipping deductions, paying use tax for that mail order stuff
>too.

Who?

On 12/8/2013 10:47 AM, [email protected] wrote:


>> When a corporation does not follow the law, people are outraged. GE is
>> following the existing tax laws and people are still outraged. Blame
>> the lawmakers and get them to change the laws.
>
> Well, that and the small problem of who actually writes the laws.

You mean the lobbyists?

>
> The real issue is that the tax laws have been allowed to get so
> perverse that tax lawyers and lobbyists make more money for
> corporations than does investing. Fair or flat, is the only choice.
>
>> Oh, don't give that moral obligation crap unless you are paying all your
>> taxes and skipping deductions, paying use tax for that mail order stuff
>> too.
>
> Who?
>
The sanctimonious few that will apply to.

On 12/8/2013 3:18 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:52:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/7/2013 4:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:19:38 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:50:27 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>>>>> garage."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like that?
>>>>>>> Surely what of what
>>>>>> That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.
>>>>> Funny, I read that in.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
>>>>>>> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
>>>>>>> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
>>>>>>> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
>>>>>>> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
>>>>>>> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
>>>>>>> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
>>>>>>> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
>>>>>>> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.
>>>>> Exclusivity? How so?
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
>>>>> according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
>>>> Nobody makes anything on anything these days. Check how much federal
>>>> income tax was actually paid by your favorite multi-national corporation
>>>> last year. Hint: Just because you can see it in a financial statement
>>>> doesn't mean it was paid.
>>>
>>> Well, now we're on a different subject altogether but I'll counter
>>> with "GE". ;-)
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about after-tax profits, rather top-of-the line
>>> margins. I've been told, on tools they're lucky to get 15% and maybe
>>> half that on Festools.
>>
>> I interviewed for the job of running a WoodCraft store about 4~5 years
>> ago. The profit margins are far greater than what you think. there are
>> a few items that are low as with any trade but seriousely if the profit
>> was as skinny as those you mentioned there would none of the stores
>> around. Now having said that the BIG BOX stores can operate with those
>> kind of margins because corporate is making majority of the profit with
>> it's negotiation with the manufacturer. What ever the stores make on
>> top of their expenses is additional gravy.
>>
> Woodcraft, Rockler, and Highland aren't big box stores. Sure, their
> margins on most things are higher but I was specifically talking about
> power tools, and Festool in particular. Those margins are really
> tight, at least according to what I've been told. There is a huge
> investment, there, too.
>

So that, heavily stocking a low profit item really does not make
business sense, does it? No body really tells it like it is concerning
profit margins, it would be like foot ball teams exchanging their play
books.



>>> I don't think it's odd that Festool would have such small margins,
>>> rather what's odd is that it seems everyone wants to carry them. There
>>> are four WW stores in the Atlanta area (that I know of). Three carry
>>> Festool (the fourth, Peachtree, is heavy into Bosch - the whole
>>> product line). One of those (Highland) seems to carry every Festool
>>> and accessory, in stock. 110" track? "No problem, wait a minute and
>>> I'll get one?"
>>>
>>
>> Nothing odd at all, every one wants to carry the brand because the
>> profits are greater than what you have been told. The comments of the
>> low mark up are simply a sales ploy to back up why none of the retailers
>> are allowed to sell for less than suggested retail.
>> If Festool was as low of a profit brand as you seem to think I seriously
>> doubt that any one would actually be carrying the brand.
>
> Just what I've been told by several sources. I agree, it doesn't make
> much sense, though. I have noticed that some are carrying a lot less
> inventory, though.

From an inventory stand point you really don't want to stock more than
what you can sell between stock orders.

On 12/9/2013 1:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> But yes you could make a living but you better be pretty efficient,
> talented and a good businessman.

You forgot the 'good looking' part.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:08:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/8/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:40:25 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/7/2013 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:13:12 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>>> garage."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
>>>>> helped me make more money.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the grungiest tools
>>>> going. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
>>>> what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
>>>> living.
>>>>
>>> That is where you screwed up. You have to do it to make money, not a
>>> living. ;~)
>>>
>> OK, they're one and the same. ???
>>
>
>No, not really. I don't make enough money woodworking to support my
>life style. I have been seriously woodworking for 30 plus years but
>only in the last 15 or so years have I actually sold my work. Now I
>make enough to support my woodworking and to have extra left over. I'm
>pretty picky with whom I build for.

Gotcha. I'll retire soon enough and I'll be free to play all I want.
I'm really trying to get a shop ready for that day. ;-)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:52:06 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/7/2013 4:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:19:38 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:50:27 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>>>> garage."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like that?
>>>>>> Surely what of what
>>>>> That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.
>>>> Funny, I read that in.
>>>>
>>>>>> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
>>>>>> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
>>>>>> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
>>>>>> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
>>>>>> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
>>>>>> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
>>>>>> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
>>>>>> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
>>>>>> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.
>>>> Exclusivity? How so?
>>>>
>>>> Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
>>>> according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
>>> Nobody makes anything on anything these days. Check how much federal
>>> income tax was actually paid by your favorite multi-national corporation
>>> last year. Hint: Just because you can see it in a financial statement
>>> doesn't mean it was paid.
>>
>> Well, now we're on a different subject altogether but I'll counter
>> with "GE". ;-)
>>
>> I'm not talking about after-tax profits, rather top-of-the line
>> margins. I've been told, on tools they're lucky to get 15% and maybe
>> half that on Festools.
>
>I interviewed for the job of running a WoodCraft store about 4~5 years
>ago. The profit margins are far greater than what you think. there are
>a few items that are low as with any trade but seriousely if the profit
>was as skinny as those you mentioned there would none of the stores
>around. Now having said that the BIG BOX stores can operate with those
>kind of margins because corporate is making majority of the profit with
>it's negotiation with the manufacturer. What ever the stores make on
>top of their expenses is additional gravy.
>
Woodcraft, Rockler, and Highland aren't big box stores. Sure, their
margins on most things are higher but I was specifically talking about
power tools, and Festool in particular. Those margins are really
tight, at least according to what I've been told. There is a huge
investment, there, too.

>> I don't think it's odd that Festool would have such small margins,
>> rather what's odd is that it seems everyone wants to carry them. There
>> are four WW stores in the Atlanta area (that I know of). Three carry
>> Festool (the fourth, Peachtree, is heavy into Bosch - the whole
>> product line). One of those (Highland) seems to carry every Festool
>> and accessory, in stock. 110" track? "No problem, wait a minute and
>> I'll get one?"
>>
>
>Nothing odd at all, every one wants to carry the brand because the
>profits are greater than what you have been told. The comments of the
>low mark up are simply a sales ploy to back up why none of the retailers
>are allowed to sell for less than suggested retail.
>If Festool was as low of a profit brand as you seem to think I seriously
>doubt that any one would actually be carrying the brand.

Just what I've been told by several sources. I agree, it doesn't make
much sense, though. I have noticed that some are carrying a lot less
inventory, though.

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:12:02 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/7/2013 11:18 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 07:15:08 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 19:09:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> The Domino, CT22 Dust Extractor, and Domino tennon assortment were my
>>>>> first Festool purchases, all at one time.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly the same as my first Festool purchase too. Although, my
>>>> purchase was awhile after yours. Did you get the pins model or the
>>>> paddles model?
>>>
>>> I got the pins model, in fact I bought early enough to get the introductory
>>> price during the first 90 days.
>>
>> Pins? Paddles?
>>
>
>
>Spring loaded indexing protrusions on the face of the Domino. Used to
>index the cut referenced from the edge of the board or a previously cut
>mortise.
>
>The later type has lock away paddles.

Ah, thanks.

On 12/9/2013 9:17 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/9/2013 9:13 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 12/9/2013 1:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> But yes you could make a living but you better be pretty efficient,
>>> talented and a good businessman.
>>
>> You forgot the 'good looking' part.
>>
>
>
> Oh yeah, the ruggedly handsome part. LOL

Just put a comma between pretty and efficient.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 10:58:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/8/2013 10:47 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>> When a corporation does not follow the law, people are outraged. GE is
>>> following the existing tax laws and people are still outraged. Blame
>>> the lawmakers and get them to change the laws.
>>
>> Well, that and the small problem of who actually writes the laws.
>
>You mean the lobbyists?

Sure.

>> The real issue is that the tax laws have been allowed to get so
>> perverse that tax lawyers and lobbyists make more money for
>> corporations than does investing. Fair or flat, is the only choice.
>>
>>> Oh, don't give that moral obligation crap unless you are paying all your
>>> taxes and skipping deductions, paying use tax for that mail order stuff
>>> too.
>>
>> Who?
>>
>The sanctimonious few that will apply to.

Well, it's not those who aren't paying that piss me off, rather those
who allow it, freely, while harping on those who do pay the lions
share. IOW, Obama's crew.

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:50:27 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>> wallet"
>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>
>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>> ...or maybe...
>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>> garage."
>>>
>>> Like that?
>> Surely what of what
>That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.

Funny, I read that in.

>> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
>> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
>> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
>> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
>> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
>> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
>> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
>> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
>> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.

Exclusivity? How so?

Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
Diamonds are a whole different thing. There is no way and individual
can realistically compare diamonds. Ever notice how the commercials
say "He bought it at Jared", not "The South-African Blood is better
than..."? The sizzle is in the retailer, not the product. (It can't
be - diamonds are only valuable because of DeBeers' monopoly.)

There is something to what you say, though. Moons ago, Seagram's
profits were declining in the growing population of liquors. Rather
than cutting prices to increase sales, they increased marketing and
*increased* price to sell as a premium brand. No one gives rot-gut at
Christmas but they do give "top shelf", or whatever Madison avenue can
pawn off as "top shelf". Their sales boomed. Business schools are in
the business of teaching this stuff.

I think there is more than some Seagrams in the Festool brand but,
unlike Seagrams, it really is better stuff. 2X? To many, the answer
is, obviously, "yes".

I don't buy your implied comparison between Festool and DeBeers,
though. ;-)

On 12/7/2013 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:13:12 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>
>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>> wallet"
>>>
>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>
>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>> ...or maybe...
>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>> garage."
>>>
>>> Like that?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
>> helped me make more money.
>
> I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the grungiest tools
> going. ;-)
>
> Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
> what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
> living.
>
That is where you screwed up. You have to do it to make money, not a
living. ;~)

On 12/8/2013 12:00 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> The primary reason people practice a profession is to earn a living;
> enjoyment is a benefit but you can't eat that. I know of only two ways to
> earn more money: sell more or spend less. I'm not saying do NOT buy
> excellent equipment, I am saying buy what is adequate for the job and which
> will provide lengthy, trouble free service.

Good advice, except to say that I buy the tool, with cost a secondary
factor, that will provide me with the cost effectiveness of saving me
time by increasing productivity.

Often that is an expensive tool, but it will be purchased with the idea
it will pay for itself, both in use, and in combination with business
tax incentives to purchase.

Business is business, and time is money ... (I think someone already
said that, but least we forget) ;)

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:50:27 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>> wallet"
>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>
>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>> garage."
>>>>
>>>> Like that?
>>> Surely what of what
>> That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.
> Funny, I read that in.
>
>>> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
>>> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
>>> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
>>> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
>>> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
>>> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
>>> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
>>> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
>>> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.
> Exclusivity? How so?
>
> Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
> according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
Nobody makes anything on anything these days. Check how much federal
income tax was actually paid by your favorite multi-national corporation
last year. Hint: Just because you can see it in a financial statement
doesn't mean it was paid.

> Diamonds are a whole different thing. There is no way and individual
> can realistically compare diamonds. Ever notice how the commercials
> say "He bought it at Jared", not "The South-African Blood is better
> than..."? The sizzle is in the retailer, not the product. (It can't
> be - diamonds are only valuable because of DeBeers' monopoly.)
>
> There is something to what you say, though. Moons ago, Seagram's
> profits were declining in the growing population of liquors. Rather
> than cutting prices to increase sales, they increased marketing and
> *increased* price to sell as a premium brand. No one gives rot-gut at
> Christmas but they do give "top shelf", or whatever Madison avenue can
> pawn off as "top shelf". Their sales boomed. Business schools are in
> the business of teaching this stuff.
>
> I think there is more than some Seagrams in the Festool brand but,
> unlike Seagrams, it really is better stuff. 2X? To many, the answer
> is, obviously, "yes".
>
> I don't buy your implied comparison between Festool and DeBeers,
> though. ;-)

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> > Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect
> > tools. Festools have helped me make more money.
>
> I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the
> grungiest tools going. ;-)

They may be smart.

In some occupations - photography, for instance - people often buy "name"
tools because they think they will enable them to do something they are
unable to do without it. In the case of photography, that "something" is
make better pictures. They are deluding themselves...if they can't do it
with "lesser" tools they won't be able to do it with the creme de la creme.
I spent 50 years in photography - successfully, I might add - and never
owned or even used a Hasselblad or Nikon.

The primary reason people practice a profession is to earn a living;
enjoyment is a benefit but you can't eat that. I know of only two ways to
earn more money: sell more or spend less. I'm not saying do NOT buy
excellent equipment, I am saying buy what is adequate for the job and which
will provide lengthy, trouble free service.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:13:12 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>
>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>> same sentence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>> wallet"
>>
>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>
>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>> ...or maybe...
>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>> garage."
>>
>> Like that?
>>
>
>
>
>Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
>helped me make more money.

I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the grungiest tools
going. ;-)

Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
living.

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 19:09:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>The Domino, CT22 Dust Extractor, and Domino tennon assortment were my
>first Festool purchases, all at one time.

Exactly the same as my first Festool purchase too. Although, my
purchase was awhile after yours. Did you get the pins model or the
paddles model?

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:40:25 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/7/2013 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:13:12 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>> wallet"
>>>>
>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>
>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>> garage."
>>>>
>>>> Like that?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
>>> helped me make more money.
>>
>> I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the grungiest tools
>> going. ;-)
>>
>> Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
>> what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
>> living.
>>
>That is where you screwed up. You have to do it to make money, not a
>living. ;~)
>
OK, they're one and the same. ???

On 12/7/2013 11:18 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 07:15:08 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 19:09:19 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> The Domino, CT22 Dust Extractor, and Domino tennon assortment were my
>>>> first Festool purchases, all at one time.
>>>
>>> Exactly the same as my first Festool purchase too. Although, my
>>> purchase was awhile after yours. Did you get the pins model or the
>>> paddles model?
>>
>> I got the pins model, in fact I bought early enough to get the introductory
>> price during the first 90 days.
>
> Pins? Paddles?
>


Spring loaded indexing protrusions on the face of the Domino. Used to
index the cut referenced from the edge of the board or a previously cut
mortise.

The later type has lock away paddles.

On 12/7/2013 4:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:19:38 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:50:27 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>>> garage."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like that?
>>>>> Surely what of what
>>>> That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.
>>> Funny, I read that in.
>>>
>>>>> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
>>>>> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
>>>>> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
>>>>> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
>>>>> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
>>>>> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
>>>>> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
>>>>> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
>>>>> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.
>>> Exclusivity? How so?
>>>
>>> Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
>>> according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
>> Nobody makes anything on anything these days. Check how much federal
>> income tax was actually paid by your favorite multi-national corporation
>> last year. Hint: Just because you can see it in a financial statement
>> doesn't mean it was paid.
>
> Well, now we're on a different subject altogether but I'll counter
> with "GE". ;-)
>
> I'm not talking about after-tax profits, rather top-of-the line
> margins. I've been told, on tools they're lucky to get 15% and maybe
> half that on Festools.

I interviewed for the job of running a WoodCraft store about 4~5 years
ago. The profit margins are far greater than what you think. there are
a few items that are low as with any trade but seriousely if the profit
was as skinny as those you mentioned there would none of the stores
around. Now having said that the BIG BOX stores can operate with those
kind of margins because corporate is making majority of the profit with
it's negotiation with the manufacturer. What ever the stores make on
top of their expenses is additional gravy.



> I don't think it's odd that Festool would have such small margins,
> rather what's odd is that it seems everyone wants to carry them. There
> are four WW stores in the Atlanta area (that I know of). Three carry
> Festool (the fourth, Peachtree, is heavy into Bosch - the whole
> product line). One of those (Highland) seems to carry every Festool
> and accessory, in stock. 110" track? "No problem, wait a minute and
> I'll get one?"
>

Nothing odd at all, every one wants to carry the brand because the
profits are greater than what you have been told. The comments of the
low mark up are simply a sales ploy to back up why none of the retailers
are allowed to sell for less than suggested retail.
If Festool was as low of a profit brand as you seem to think I seriously
doubt that any one would actually be carrying the brand.

On 12/8/2013 1:52 PM, Leon wrote:

>> I'm not talking about after-tax profits, rather top-of-the line
>> margins. I've been told, on tools they're lucky to get 15% and maybe
>> half that on Festools.
>
> I interviewed for the job of running a WoodCraft store about 4~5 years
> ago. The profit margins are far greater than what you think. there are
> a few items that are low as with any trade but seriousely if the profit
> was as skinny as those you mentioned there would none of the stores
> around. Now having said that the BIG BOX stores can operate with those
> kind of margins because corporate is making majority of the profit with
> it's negotiation with the manufacturer. What ever the stores make on
> top of their expenses is additional gravy.
>

Years ago I worked for a company associated with the hobby industry.
Probably not much different than tools. We worked from the alleged
retail price industry wide. Dealer got a 40% discount from list when
they bought from a distributor. Distributor pricing was 50-10-2 or 50%
for any order, additional 10% on orders over minimum, 2% for 10 days.
So a distributor paid $4.50 for a $10 list and sold it for $6. The
dealer paid $6 and sold it for about $9 to $10. Our cost for making a
$10 item was usually about $2.50 or less.

There were some exceptions in the industry. We had one high priced item
that was discounted less. (I forget exact amount, but about 10% less
than usual) It was an item that had a good market for $40 retail, but no
market at $50 retail

On 12/8/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 23:40:25 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/7/2013 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:13:12 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2013 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>> garage."
>>>>>
>>>>> Like that?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well this might be true if you buy tool to collect tools. Festools have
>>>> helped me make more money.
>>>
>>> I suppose, but I know a lot of tradesmen who have the grungiest tools
>>> going. ;-)
>>>
>>> Making sawdust is too fun to have to do it for a living. I thought
>>> what I do for a living was the best hobby, too, until I did it for a
>>> living.
>>>
>> That is where you screwed up. You have to do it to make money, not a
>> living. ;~)
>>
> OK, they're one and the same. ???
>

No, not really. I don't make enough money woodworking to support my
life style. I have been seriously woodworking for 30 plus years but
only in the last 15 or so years have I actually sold my work. Now I
make enough to support my woodworking and to have extra left over. I'm
pretty picky with whom I build for.

On 12/8/2013 10:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> When a corporation does not follow the law, people are outraged. GE is
> following the existing tax laws and people are still outraged. Blame
> the lawmakers and get them to change the laws.
Really, how would yo do that?

What most of us know to be right and wrong, does not exist for a
politician, The scum of the earch become politians. I'd rather deal
with a common criminal than a politician. At least you know what you
are getting.

Our politicians are allowed to do insider trading.
The voted to stop that after a 60 minute show..

Then when no one was looking they voted to repeal it.
You and I goto jail for the same thing.

How do you change that? I vote out the incumbent, but there are not
enough people who believe in that. I vote independents these days as I
don't believe the party system is working.

You can't change it, because we American's are stupid.. we vote the same
peope in election after election.. why do we expect it to change...




--
Jeff

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:19:38 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:50:27 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 22:04:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/6/2013 2:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May I assume they are part of Obamacare, and "FREE"
>>>>>>> I never would have thought I'd ever hear "Festool" and "free" in the
>>>>>>> same sentence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure you can. "Buying a Festool will make a lot of free space in you
>>>>>> wallet"
>>>>> OK, I think I got it, now.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Festool will free you of paying the rent."
>>>>> ...or maybe...
>>>>> "If you want a money-free life, buy Festools."
>>>>> ...or... "After that Festool purchase, you're free to live in the
>>>>> garage."
>>>>>
>>>>> Like that?
>>>> Surely what of what
>>> That was suposed be *part* of what" ... beginning typist here.
>> Funny, I read that in.
>>
>>>> one is paying for is "excusivity" (yes, it's a word, I didn't think it
>>>> was, but I checked). One can generally trust a retailer to know
>>>> precisely what they are selling, and pricing accordingly. If one
>>>> diamond ring was only priced $500 more than another, it might not
>>>> appear as shiny. But make the difference $5000, then people will go
>>>> wow. I think some of the retailers have more fun selling things
>>>> having exclusivity. Some people can surely justify Festool tools on
>>>> their features, and some can probably justify them on other basis. I
>>>> don't think sellers care why you buy. Just like anything. YMMV.
>> Exclusivity? How so?
>>
>> Everyone under the sun seems to be selling Festool (weird since,
>> according to all reports they make almost nothing on that investment).
> Nobody makes anything on anything these days. Check how much federal
>income tax was actually paid by your favorite multi-national corporation
>last year. Hint: Just because you can see it in a financial statement
>doesn't mean it was paid.

Well, now we're on a different subject altogether but I'll counter
with "GE". ;-)

I'm not talking about after-tax profits, rather top-of-the line
margins. I've been told, on tools they're lucky to get 15% and maybe
half that on Festools.

I don't think it's odd that Festool would have such small margins,
rather what's odd is that it seems everyone wants to carry them. There
are four WW stores in the Atlanta area (that I know of). Three carry
Festool (the fourth, Peachtree, is heavy into Bosch - the whole
product line). One of those (Highland) seems to carry every Festool
and accessory, in stock. 110" track? "No problem, wait a minute and
I'll get one?"