jointer decision

CC:

Just beware that the Quickset knives from Jet/Powermatic
are unique. I found that no one else makes a replacement
set and you have to order them from Jet/Powermatic.

I have the Powermatic version of this jointer and overall
it's a good one. The table is NOT superflat and I have
been trying, without a lot of push or success, to get
them to tell me what their tolerances are. But from
what my woodworker mentor tells me, it should
be just fine.

If you could find one that was in the store and buy it off the floor,
you'll be able to measure the flatness.

MJM

Leon wrote:
> "CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%%[email protected]...
>> Opinions needed on first jointer purchase, I want to build some furniture,
>> china cabinet, build in book cases, possibly a bed,. some night stands,
>> things on that order,
>>
>> I'm going to look at a JET 708457DXK JJ-6CSDX 6-Inch for $550
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/708457DXK-JJ-6CSDX-Horsepower-Quick-Set-230-Volt/dp/B000BHNAJA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
>>
>>
>> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
>> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model # 152.217060
>> for $300 about 4 years old.
>>
>> I don't have a link to this.
>> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>>
>> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
>> the cost difference, I could use the price difference toward
>> the cost of buying a planer next ,so it does matter to my budget.
>> as I am retired now and on fixed income
>> Thanks for any thoughts
>> CC
>
> I have a 6" Craftsman jointer. There I said it. I have had it for 25
> years. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years and decided in
> the last couple of days that I don't need a jointer. You can probably do
> with out one also. You should get a planer before you get a jointer and
> with the right jigs you can flatten and straighten a board with a table saw
> and a planer, that is what I do.
>
>
I agree with Leon that you can get by without a jointer. My delta has been
sitting for three years now and have not had a need for one. If the
tablesaw is in tune with a good blade, you can do without. A planer is a
worthwhile investment.

"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%%[email protected]...
>> Opinions needed on first jointer purchase, I want to build some
>> furniture,
>> china cabinet, build in book cases, possibly a bed,. some night
>> stands,
>> things on that order,
>>
>> I'm going to look at a JET 708457DXK JJ-6CSDX 6-Inch for $550
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/708457DXK-JJ-6CSDX-Horsepower-Quick-Set-230-Volt/dp/B000BHNAJA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
>>
>>
>> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
>> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model #
>> 152.217060
>> for $300 about 4 years old.
>>
>> I don't have a link to this.
>> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>>
>> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
>> the cost difference, I could use the price difference toward
>> the cost of buying a planer next ,so it does matter to my budget.
>> as I am retired now and on fixed income
>> Thanks for any thoughts
>> CC
>
> CC,
>
> I have the earlier version of that Jet jointer and it's been a
> workhorse. In this class of equipment, nothing is ever perfect and
> you'll find something that will bug you but in the end, it works and
> you'll be happy with it. But.... If you look at Lowes (stores
> only) right now, you will find that they have the $650 DeWalt model
> 735 Planer marked down to $499.
>
> Buy the Craftsman jointer if it's in decent shape, tune it up and
> use it with your new planer. On a budget... I can understand that so
> just cut off the wife's beer for a month and you'll probably have
> enough to get both. Haggle the Craftsman down another $75 if not....
>
> Bob S.
>

Thanks guys for all the good input, I really want a good planer also,
and
have been looking close at the DeWalt 735, but if I bought the Jet
jointer I'd
probably have to buy one cheaper, Your input has helped me lots. I
will check
the Craftsman very closely and it if seems to be a in as good shape as
claimed
go with it and then be able to get the 735 planer too,
Ill have to talk to wife about her x-stitch and see what kind of
budget she'll agree too
(Ahhhh thinking about it,,,, maybe not LOL) I think she agreed with
the purchase's to
get me out of the house and into the shop
CC

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:10:04 -0600, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>I have a 6" Craftsman jointer. There I said it. I have had it for 25
>years. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years and decided in
>the last couple of days that I don't need a jointer. You can probably do
>with out one also. You should get a planer before you get a jointer and
>with the right jigs you can flatten and straighten a board with a table saw
>and a planer, that is what I do.


Yeah, I'm right there with ya, Leon. I have an 8" Grizz that replaced
an 8 " Delta and the sumbitch hardly gets used at all.

I'm working in a production environment now and all the glue joints
are done on a stright line ripsaw.

The joints are perfect.

Even before that I would hotmelt a fence onto something that I wanted
to joint on the tablesaw, rather than use the jointer.

I did my face prep on a lunchbox planer and took the high side down
slow until it got level and then flipped it. It was a lot easier and
wound up being more accurate.

If anyone wants to buy a hardly used Grizz 8", I'm entertaining
offers.




tom




d
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:10:04 -0600, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I have a 6" Craftsman jointer. There I said it. I have had it for
>>25
>>years. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years and
>>decided in
>>the last couple of days that I don't need a jointer. You can
>>probably do
>>with out one also. You should get a planer before you get a jointer
>>and
>>with the right jigs you can flatten and straighten a board with a
>>table saw
>>and a planer, that is what I do.
>
>
> Yeah, I'm right there with ya, Leon. I have an 8" Grizz that
> replaced
> an 8 " Delta and the sumbitch hardly gets used at all.
>
> I'm working in a production environment now and all the glue joints
> are done on a stright line ripsaw.
>
> The joints are perfect.
>
> Even before that I would hotmelt a fence onto something that I
> wanted
> to joint on the tablesaw, rather than use the jointer.
>
> I did my face prep on a lunchbox planer and took the high side down
> slow until it got level and then flipped it. It was a lot easier
> and
> wound up being more accurate.
>
> If anyone wants to buy a hardly used Grizz 8", I'm entertaining
> offers.
>
>
>
>
> tom
>
>
>
>
> d
> Regards,
>
> Tom Watson
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom, I think you are right across the river from me,
given that, I would make an offer but it wouldn't fit and like
the carrier, part would have to stick out the door to be able to use
it, With the rains we have, I'd never be able to afford the top coat
LOL
CC

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:16:24 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:


> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table? Should I be
> embarrassed? :-)

Face jointing? Edge jointing can be done several different ways, but
face jointing pretty much requires a jointer or some kind of sled (for
planer or router).

--
It's turtles, all the way down

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
> Should I be embarrassed? :-)
>
>

Before I had a jointer, and after I became unhappy with the results of the
tablesaw I had at the time, I did a lot of bookmatched pieces (soundboards
and backs of guitars and dulcimers and such) that way. I forget who made
'em but I found some extra long (1.5") bits just for router jointing.

Ed

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>> I forget who made 'em but I found some extra long (1.5") bits just for
>> router jointing.
>>
>> Ed
>
> <crocodile dundee voice on>
> That's not extra long. This is extra long.
> <crocodile dundee voice off>
>
> I have one 3 inches. [insert joke here]
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>

I'm not touching that one.

Ed

"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:49:29 -0600, MikeWhy wrote:
>
>>> I also have a sled jig for my 15" stationary planer that will flatten
>>> boards up to 13" wide. This is impossible with most common sized
>>> jointers unless you rip the board in half and flatten the two resulting
>>> pieces.
>>
>> Yah. AOK on the rip part. Won't you need a bunch of shimming to plane
>> the face on the sled? How does that work if not?
>
> That's what I was wondering. Every planer flattening jig I've seen had
> provision for multiple shims/wedges to allow flattening a warped board.
> Since every board is different, rearranging all the shims for each board
> gets old quick.
>
> I suppose the sled is an improvement over hand planing the entire
> face :-).

In deed it does get old but not that quickly. It did get old when working
over 200 bf of oak but really it was the only way to do the deed with the
boards all being about 8.5' long and at least 8" wide. 85% of the rough
cut lumber was too large for a 8" jointer.

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
Snip

>
> When buying S2S lumber it's the tool to clean up an edge with no muss or
> fuss to prep for cutting. I can't imagine hot melting a fence to do this
> on a TS if you have a jointer at hand?

I think he is hot melting a straight edge on to the rough edged stock and
runs the straight edge along the TS fence. With this type application or a
sled like I use it takes "1" pass on the TS to straighten the most crooked
of edges. With a jointer that takes several passes. Think about taperng a
leg, you can do that on a jointer with several passes or with 1 pass using a
taper jig on the TS. The jig the TS workes much like a taper jig, it uses
a straight edge to reference the TS fence.

"CC" wrote:


> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model #
> 152.217060
> for $300 about 4 years old.
>
> I don't have a link to this.
> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>
> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
> the cost difference,

IMHO, NO!

When it comes to a jointer, iron is iron.

If the tables are flat and parallel, the Craftsman is a winner.

At least mine was before it got legs.

If the seller will allow it take a couple of boards with you to joint.
If the pieces butt up to a light tight joint, you have a winner.

Lew

"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> "CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "CC" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
>>>> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model #
>>>> 152.217060
>>>> for $300 about 4 years old.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have a link to this.
>>>> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>>>>
>>>> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
>>>> the cost difference,
>>>
>>> IMHO, NO!
>>>
>>> When it comes to a jointer, iron is iron.
>>>
>>> If the tables are flat and parallel, the Craftsman is a winner.
>>>
>>> At least mine was before it got legs.
>>>
>>> If the seller will allow it take a couple of boards with you to
>>> joint. If the pieces butt up to a light tight joint, you have a
>>> winner.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>> I've contacted the seller and am going to try to see the jointer
>> Tuesday
>> I'm going to get him to run a couple pieces through it to see how
>> well
>> they will mate, Hopefully it will be in as good a shape as he says
>> it is
>> If it is, I will have a new tool in the shop,
>> cc
>
> Keep in mind though that the guy may not have it set up well, e.g.,
> knives not well adjusted, outfeed table at wrong height, etc.) and
> that he may not use proper technique... It could be a fine and dandy
> machine but the "test" may suggest it's not.
>
> John


I'll keep that in mind too and bring
a straight edge to check the tables
to see if they are warped or flat too.
CC

-MIKE- wrote:
> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
> Should I be embarrassed? :-)

I've done that afore too, but it's kinda hard to face joint on a router.

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


> <LOL> Maybe that's more of a comment on the Craftsman than on mechanized
> jointing? :D

Partly ;~)


I have a 6" Jet and hold the opposite opinion. The boards stick
> together from the vacuum between their faces when they're stacked next to
> each other on edge. My hat's off to you and your skills if you can do that
> reliably without a jointer.

I have never checked to see if the boards stick from the vvacuum however the
joint pretty much disappears when the boards are slid up next to each other.
Basically if you can rip a straight line on your TS you can straighten a
board on your TS with a jig. Grain is typically the only indicator of
where to look for the joint.

>
> On a fixed income, though, I'll concede the point. You don't need that
> level of precision for stuff that grows and shrinks with the seasons. Tell
> me more about your jigs.


I use a piece of 3/4" x 14" x 8' long piece of plywood with a straight edge
that runs along the rip fence of the TS. I clamp with two toggle clamps the
board to be straightened with the crooked edge hanging off the opposite side
of the plywood panel. The clamps hold the crooked board so that the crooked
edge is cut off when the jig is run through the TS. This jig woks on the
same principal as a taper jig for a TS except the board rides on top of the
sled rather than beside the jig. I am using a cabinet saw with a Forrest
WWII. I can actually straighten a board much faster than using a jointer
with this jig. I only takes one pass to straighten any board up to 8' in
length. Can you say that about most any common sized jointer? ;~)

I also have a sled jig for my 15" stationary planer that will flatten boards
up to 13" wide. This is impossible with most common sized jointers unless
you rip the board in half and flatten the two resulting pieces.

"MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:JEq8l.703$%[email protected]...
>>

>
> Yah. AOK on the rip part. Won't you need a bunch of shimming to plane the
> face on the sled? How does that work if not?
>
>

Yes, the jig featured in Fine Wood Working IIRC, and the one I built and
use uses a shallow torsion box style sled with several anchored but
adjustable wedge shims. For a wide and 8" long board it takes about 2-4
minutes to properly shim the board, the shims are on both sides of the sled
and spaced about 12" apart along the length of the sled.

Typically most of the wood that I purchase is flat enough to let the planer
mill with out the sled.

I built my sled when I had 200 bf of bandsaw milled oak ranging in 8"-13"
width 8' long, to flatten.

"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:10:04 -0600, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I have a 6" Craftsman jointer. There I said it. I have had it for 25
>>years. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years and decided in
>>the last couple of days that I don't need a jointer. You can probably do
>>with out one also. You should get a planer before you get a jointer and
>>with the right jigs you can flatten and straighten a board with a table
>>saw
>>and a planer, that is what I do.
>
>
> Yeah, I'm right there with ya, Leon. I have an 8" Grizz that replaced
> an 8 " Delta and the sumbitch hardly gets used at all.
>
> I'm working in a production environment now and all the glue joints
> are done on a stright line ripsaw.
>
> The joints are perfect.
>
> Even before that I would hotmelt a fence onto something that I wanted
> to joint on the tablesaw, rather than use the jointer.
>
> I did my face prep on a lunchbox planer and took the high side down
> slow until it got level and then flipped it. It was a lot easier and
> wound up being more accurate.
>
> If anyone wants to buy a hardly used Grizz 8", I'm entertaining
> offers.
>
>
>
>
> tom
>


LOL Tom I think for many of us the jointer is a machine that we haf'ta
have and then 20 or so years later realize that there are often easier ways
to achieve the same results with out using the jointer and then there it
sets. I really and truly have kept it around because it is heavy and I used
to keep the "shop dog" tied up to it, that was its purpose in my shop. The
current Great Dane is a puss and really does not care that much for the
shop. I think I used my "PC DETAIL SANDER" more than my jointer if that
tells you any thing. You are thinking of selling yours, I am considering
giving mine away. Like minds. ;~)

-MIKE- <[email protected]> laid this on me:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> Interesting discussion. I've used jigs similar to what you've
>> described and I agree that a wooddorker can do without a jointer, but
>> I wouldn't *want* to, at least for the smaller jobs that don't test
>> the limits of its capacities. I have the 6" Delta Pro and it's one
>> of my favorite tools in the shop, though I do get jealous whenever I
>> see a picture posted by David Eisan. :-)
>>
>
> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
> Should I be embarrassed? :-)

No. (at least, I hope not...)
I have very limited space and budget, and do my jointing on the
router table too. It took a little practice to get the bit perfectly set to
the shimmed outfeed fence (sounds easier than it is), and you have to make
sure the fences are perfectly flat and co-planer to start, and the bit is
standing exactly 90 from the table surface; but once I got that, no
problems. I built my fence somewhat beefy anticipating doing this, and that
helps too. The other "trick" I found is to only take a tiny bit off with
each pass, ie, use a small shim. 3 or 4 small passes >>>> 1 or 2 big ones.
(as is usually true with about anything on the router table).
OTOH, not a single person has looked at my work and said "hey, you
used a router table to joint those edges, didn't you!".

Sean
--
There is an old saying that if a million monkeys
typed on a million keyboards for a million years,
eventually all the works of Shakespeare would be produced.
Now, thanks to Usenet, we know this is not true.

Jack Stein wrote:
>
> Tapered legs are a jointer specialty, wanted or not:-)
>


Not for me...

I greatly prefer my taper sled.

-MIKE- wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
>>> Should I be embarrassed? :-)
>>
>> I've done that afore too, but it's kinda hard to face joint on a router.
>>
>
> tru dat.
> 'scuse the ignorance, because I'm on the other side of my brain today,
> but doesn't a planer do that?

Only if the face opposite the blades is already flat, or can be made to
appear flat by affixing it to a sled (as Leon described in another
branch of this thread) so the board doesn't shift on the non-flat face
as it's passing through the planer.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
> Should I be embarrassed? :-)

Nothing to be embarrassed about. Hell, Lee Valley sells shims for jointing
on the router.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=41801&cat=1,43053,43885,42837

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CC" wrote:
>
>
>> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
>> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model #
>> 152.217060
>> for $300 about 4 years old.
>>
>> I don't have a link to this.
>> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>>
>> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
>> the cost difference,
>
> IMHO, NO!
>
> When it comes to a jointer, iron is iron.
>
> If the tables are flat and parallel, the Craftsman is a winner.
>
> At least mine was before it got legs.
>
> If the seller will allow it take a couple of boards with you to
> joint. If the pieces butt up to a light tight joint, you have a
> winner.
>
> Lew
>
>
I've contacted the seller and am going to try to see the jointer
Tuesday
I'm going to get him to run a couple pieces through it to see how well
they will mate, Hopefully it will be in as good a shape as he says it
is
If it is, I will have a new tool in the shop,
cc

I can e-mail you PDF plans if you like.


"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table? Should I be
>>> embarrassed? :-)
>>
>> Face jointing? Edge jointing can be done several different ways, but
>> face jointing pretty much requires a jointer or some kind of sled (for
>> planer or router).
>>
>
> Speaking of which, if anyone has pictures of their sleds for this purpose,
> please post them.
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> [email protected]
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Norvin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:%%[email protected]...
>>> Opinions needed on first jointer purchase, I want to build some
>>> furniture,
>>> china cabinet, build in book cases, possibly a bed,. some night stands,
>>> things on that order,
>>>
>>> I'm going to look at a JET 708457DXK JJ-6CSDX 6-Inch for $550
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/708457DXK-JJ-6CSDX-Horsepower-Quick-Set-230-Volt/dp/B000BHNAJA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
>>>
>>>
>>> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
>>> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model # 152.217060
>>> for $300 about 4 years old.
>>>
>>> I don't have a link to this.
>>> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>>>
>>> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
>>> the cost difference, I could use the price difference toward
>>> the cost of buying a planer next ,so it does matter to my budget.
>>> as I am retired now and on fixed income
>>> Thanks for any thoughts
>>> CC
>>
>> I have a 6" Craftsman jointer. There I said it. I have had it for 25
>> years. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years and decided
>> in the last couple of days that I don't need a jointer. You can probably
>> do with out one also. You should get a planer before you get a jointer
>> and with the right jigs you can flatten and straighten a board with a
>> table saw and a planer, that is what I do.
>>
>>
> I agree with Leon that you can get by without a jointer. My delta has been
> sitting for three years now and have not had a need for one. If the
> tablesaw is in tune with a good blade, you can do without. A planer is a
> worthwhile investment.

<LOL> Maybe that's more of a comment on the Craftsman than on mechanized
jointing? :D I have a 6" Jet and hold the opposite opinion. The boards stick
together from the vacuum between their faces when they're stacked next to
each other on edge. My hat's off to you and your skills if you can do that
reliably without a jointer.

On a fixed income, though, I'll concede the point. You don't need that level
of precision for stuff that grows and shrinks with the seasons. Tell me more
about your jigs.

MikeWhy wrote:
> "B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jack Stein wrote:
>>> Tapered legs are a jointer specialty, wanted or not:-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> Not for me...
>>
>> I greatly prefer my taper sled.
>
> Whoosh! ;)
>

Oh, I get it... <G>

I don't seem to have that problem, so over my head it went!

"CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%%[email protected]...
> Opinions needed on first jointer purchase, I want to build some
> furniture,
> china cabinet, build in book cases, possibly a bed,. some night
> stands,
> things on that order,
>
> I'm going to look at a JET 708457DXK JJ-6CSDX 6-Inch for $550
>
> http://www.amazon.com/708457DXK-JJ-6CSDX-Horsepower-Quick-Set-230-Volt/dp/B000BHNAJA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
>
>
> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model # 152.217060
> for $300 about 4 years old.
>
> I don't have a link to this.
> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>
> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
> the cost difference, I could use the price difference toward
> the cost of buying a planer next ,so it does matter to my budget.
> as I am retired now and on fixed income
> Thanks for any thoughts
> CC

CC,

I have the earlier version of that Jet jointer and it's been a
workhorse. In this class of equipment, nothing is ever perfect and
you'll find something that will bug you but in the end, it works and
you'll be happy with it. But.... If you look at Lowes (stores only)
right now, you will find that they have the $650 DeWalt model 735
Planer marked down to $499.

Buy the Craftsman jointer if it's in decent shape, tune it up and use
it with your new planer. On a budget... I can understand that so just
cut off the wife's beer for a month and you'll probably have enough to
get both. Haggle the Craftsman down another $75 if not....

Bob S.

Steve Turner wrote:
> Interesting discussion. I've used jigs similar to what you've described
> and I agree that a wooddorker can do without a jointer, but I wouldn't
> *want* to, at least for the smaller jobs that don't test the limits of
> its capacities. I have the 6" Delta Pro and it's one of my favorite
> tools in the shop, though I do get jealous whenever I see a picture
> posted by David Eisan. :-)
>

Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
Should I be embarrassed? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Steve Turner wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table?
>> Should I be embarrassed? :-)
>
> I've done that afore too, but it's kinda hard to face joint on a router.
>

tru dat.
'scuse the ignorance, because I'm on the other side of my brain today,
but doesn't a planer do that?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Steve Turner wrote:
>>> I've done that afore too, but it's kinda hard to face joint on a router.
>>>
>>
>> tru dat.
>> 'scuse the ignorance, because I'm on the other side of my brain today,
>> but doesn't a planer do that?
>
> Only if the face opposite the blades is already flat, or can be made to
> appear flat by affixing it to a sled (as Leon described in another
> branch of this thread) so the board doesn't shift on the non-flat face
> as it's passing through the planer.
>

Right, gotcha.
Affix it to something that is long and flat, which will ride the
planer's bottom surface. Then flip.
Otherwise the knives would just follow the contour of the board's
un-flat bottom.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
> I
> forget who made 'em but I found some extra long (1.5") bits just for
> router jointing.
>
> Ed

<crocodile dundee voice on>
That's not extra long. This is extra long.
<crocodile dundee voice off>

I have one 3 inches. [insert joke here]


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

>> I have one 3 inches. [insert joke here]
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>
> I'm not touching that one.
>
> Ed

Please don't. I'm happily married.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> Am I the only one who's done jointing on the router table? Should I be
>> embarrassed? :-)
>
> Face jointing? Edge jointing can be done several different ways, but
> face jointing pretty much requires a jointer or some kind of sled (for
> planer or router).
>

Speaking of which, if anyone has pictures of their sleds for this
purpose, please post them.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> I can e-mail you PDF plans if you like.
>
>> [email protected]
>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Sure, why not....thanks.

Take out the DOT


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> On it's way.
>

Got it... pershee-ate it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Tom Watson wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:10:04 -0600, "Leon" wrote:

> Yeah, I'm right there with ya, Leon. I have an 8" Grizz that replaced
> an 8 " Delta and the sumbitch hardly gets used at all.

I have an old iron Rockwell Delta 6" jointer. It is not the least used
tool in my shop but perhaps is the least needed tool. I'd say my lathe
is the least used but when I need a lathe, you need a lathe. It's rare
I actually "need" my jointer and it would be one of the last tools I
would buy.

> I'm working in a production environment now and all the glue joints
> are done on a stright line ripsaw.

I generally don't need to joint stuff ripped on the Tsaw, but I often do
it because it is super easy and it's right there.

> Even before that I would hotmelt a fence onto something that I wanted
> to joint on the tablesaw, rather than use the jointer.

That makes no sense to me, unless your jointer is not in the right
place, or not set up right?

I seldom use the jointer to face plane anything other than logs I
salvage from fire wood, pallets and what not. I'll joint one face, then
use that face to make a 90 and then it's easy to rip on the BS or TS.

When buying S2S lumber it's the tool to clean up an edge with no muss or
fuss to prep for cutting. I can't imagine hot melting a fence to do
this on a TS if you have a jointer at hand?

I also used it a lot when I used to rip everything with a cheap 8 tooth
carbide blade. That blade always cut like butter but left a rough edge.
One pass through the jointer and all was well. Interesting thing was I
could still edge glue right off that blade and still get a near perfect
joint.

Also like to use it when sneaking up on a width for something. I know
it always cuts a tad under 1/16th of an inch, so I use that to my
advantage when needed.

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org
http://jbstein.com

Leon wrote:
> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> Snip
>
>> When buying S2S lumber it's the tool to clean up an edge with no muss or
>> fuss to prep for cutting. I can't imagine hot melting a fence to do this
>> on a TS if you have a jointer at hand?

> I think he is hot melting a straight edge on to the rough edged stock and
> runs the straight edge along the TS fence. With this type application or a
> sled like I use it takes "1" pass on the TS to straighten the most crooked
> of edges.

For an irregular, crooked edge I reckon, but thats not what I'm talking
about. S2S is generally ripped fairly straight at the mill, just the
edges are rough, not irregular. I can make several passes on my jointer
and rip the plank to size before my glue gun even warms up. Probably
faster than I can dig out my glue gun and hook it up:-)

With a jointer that takes several passes. Think about taperng a
> leg, you can do that on a jointer with several passes or with 1 pass using a
> taper jig on the TS. The jig the TS workes much like a taper jig, it uses
> a straight edge to reference the TS fence.

Tapered legs are a jointer specialty, wanted or not:-)

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org
http://jbstein.com

Test the craftsman.. Edge-joint 2 boards about 3 feet long then hold the
edges together if you get no light... it's keeper.

Actually, ask the owner if they will do that test for you. If you have never
owned a jointer before, you may not your jointer technique together.

IMHO, jointers are really simple beasts... there's not that many parameters:
Length, width, HP, handwheels vs. Levers and the only one that *really*
matters "is it flat?"


> In this class of equipment, nothing is ever perfect and
> you'll find something that will bug you but in the end, it works and
> you'll be happy with it.

I tend to agree.

-Steve

Leon wrote:
> I use a piece of 3/4" x 14" x 8' long piece of plywood with a straight edge
> that runs along the rip fence of the TS. I clamp with two toggle clamps the
> board to be straightened with the crooked edge hanging off the opposite side
> of the plywood panel. The clamps hold the crooked board so that the crooked
> edge is cut off when the jig is run through the TS. This jig woks on the
> same principal as a taper jig for a TS except the board rides on top of the
> sled rather than beside the jig. I am using a cabinet saw with a Forrest
> WWII. I can actually straighten a board much faster than using a jointer
> with this jig. I only takes one pass to straighten any board up to 8' in
> length. Can you say that about most any common sized jointer? ;~)

Interesting discussion. I've used jigs similar to what you've described
and I agree that a wooddorker can do without a jointer, but I wouldn't
*want* to, at least for the smaller jobs that don't test the limits of
its capacities. I have the 6" Delta Pro and it's one of my favorite
tools in the shop, though I do get jealous whenever I see a picture
posted by David Eisan. :-)

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> Snip

> For an irregular, crooked edge I reckon, but thats not what I'm talking
> about. S2S is generally ripped fairly straight at the mill, just the
> edges are rough, not irregular. I can make several passes on my jointer
> and rip the plank to size before my glue gun even warms up. Probably
> faster than I can dig out my glue gun and hook it up:-)

And, that is why my jig is a sled with 2 toggle clamps. Set up quick.

>
> With a jointer that takes several passes. Think about taperng a
>> leg, you can do that on a jointer with several passes or with 1 pass
>> using a taper jig on the TS. The jig the TS workes much like a taper
>> jig, it uses a straight edge to reference the TS fence.
>
> Tapered legs are a jointer specialty, wanted or not:-)


LOL

"CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "CC" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
>>> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model # 152.217060
>>> for $300 about 4 years old.
>>>
>>> I don't have a link to this.
>>> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>>>
>>> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
>>> the cost difference,
>>
>> IMHO, NO!
>>
>> When it comes to a jointer, iron is iron.
>>
>> If the tables are flat and parallel, the Craftsman is a winner.
>>
>> At least mine was before it got legs.
>>
>> If the seller will allow it take a couple of boards with you to joint. If
>> the pieces butt up to a light tight joint, you have a winner.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
> I've contacted the seller and am going to try to see the jointer Tuesday
> I'm going to get him to run a couple pieces through it to see how well
> they will mate, Hopefully it will be in as good a shape as he says it is
> If it is, I will have a new tool in the shop,
> cc

Keep in mind though that the guy may not have it set up well, e.g., knives
not well adjusted, outfeed table at wrong height, etc.) and that he may not
use proper technique... It could be a fine and dandy machine but the "test"
may suggest it's not.

John

"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jack Stein wrote:
>> Tapered legs are a jointer specialty, wanted or not:-)
>>
>
>
> Not for me...
>
> I greatly prefer my taper sled.

Whoosh! ;)

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:49:29 -0600, MikeWhy wrote:

>> I also have a sled jig for my 15" stationary planer that will flatten
>> boards up to 13" wide. This is impossible with most common sized
>> jointers unless you rip the board in half and flatten the two resulting
>> pieces.
>
> Yah. AOK on the rip part. Won't you need a bunch of shimming to plane
> the face on the sled? How does that work if not?

That's what I was wondering. Every planer flattening jig I've seen had
provision for multiple shims/wedges to allow flattening a warped board.
Since every board is different, rearranging all the shims for each board
gets old quick.

I suppose the sled is an improvement over hand planing the entire
face :-).




--
It's turtles, all the way down

On it's way.


"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> I can e-mail you PDF plans if you like.
>>
>>> [email protected]
>>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>
> Sure, why not....thanks.
>
> Take out the DOT
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> [email protected]
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:JEq8l.703$%[email protected]...
>
> "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> <LOL> Maybe that's more of a comment on the Craftsman than on mechanized
>> jointing? :D
>
> Partly ;~)
>
>
> I have a 6" Jet and hold the opposite opinion. The boards stick
>> together from the vacuum between their faces when they're stacked next to
>> each other on edge. My hat's off to you and your skills if you can do
>> that reliably without a jointer.
>
> I have never checked to see if the boards stick from the vvacuum however
> the joint pretty much disappears when the boards are slid up next to each
> other. Basically if you can rip a straight line on your TS you can
> straighten a board on your TS with a jig. Grain is typically the only
> indicator of where to look for the joint.
>
>>
>> On a fixed income, though, I'll concede the point. You don't need that
>> level of precision for stuff that grows and shrinks with the seasons.
>> Tell me more about your jigs.
>
>
> I use a piece of 3/4" x 14" x 8' long piece of plywood with a straight
> edge that runs along the rip fence of the TS. I clamp with two toggle
> clamps the board to be straightened with the crooked edge hanging off the
> opposite side of the plywood panel. The clamps hold the crooked board so
> that the crooked edge is cut off when the jig is run through the TS. This
> jig woks on the same principal as a taper jig for a TS except the board
> rides on top of the sled rather than beside the jig. I am using a
> cabinet saw with a Forrest WWII. I can actually straighten a board much
> faster than using a jointer with this jig. I only takes one pass to
> straighten any board up to 8' in length. Can you say that about most any
> common sized jointer? ;~)
>
> I also have a sled jig for my 15" stationary planer that will flatten
> boards up to 13" wide. This is impossible with most common sized jointers
> unless you rip the board in half and flatten the two resulting pieces.

Yah. AOK on the rip part. Won't you need a bunch of shimming to plane the
face on the sled? How does that work if not?

"CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%%[email protected]...
> Opinions needed on first jointer purchase, I want to build some furniture,
> china cabinet, build in book cases, possibly a bed,. some night stands,
> things on that order,
>
> I'm going to look at a JET 708457DXK JJ-6CSDX 6-Inch for $550
>
> http://www.amazon.com/708457DXK-JJ-6CSDX-Horsepower-Quick-Set-230-Volt/dp/B000BHNAJA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
>
>
> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model # 152.217060
> for $300 about 4 years old.
>
> I don't have a link to this.
> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>
> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
> the cost difference, I could use the price difference toward
> the cost of buying a planer next ,so it does matter to my budget.
> as I am retired now and on fixed income
> Thanks for any thoughts
> CC
I saw a new Delta 6" jointer on sale through the end of the month from
Rockler for $200! It is not on their website but I got it in a mailer. You
could call Rockler to see if it is still for sale.

"CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%%[email protected]...
> Opinions needed on first jointer purchase, I want to build some furniture,
> china cabinet, build in book cases, possibly a bed,. some night stands,
> things on that order,
>
> I'm going to look at a JET 708457DXK JJ-6CSDX 6-Inch for $550
>
> http://www.amazon.com/708457DXK-JJ-6CSDX-Horsepower-Quick-Set-230-Volt/dp/B000BHNAJA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
>
>
> and also a Craftsman Professional 6 1/8" jointer
> 1/2" rabbiting capacity with a 46" cast Iron table model # 152.217060
> for $300 about 4 years old.
>
> I don't have a link to this.
> Both are said to be in like new condition.
>
> Is the difference between the Jet and the Craftsman worth
> the cost difference, I could use the price difference toward
> the cost of buying a planer next ,so it does matter to my budget.
> as I am retired now and on fixed income
> Thanks for any thoughts
> CC

I have a 6" Craftsman jointer. There I said it. I have had it for 25
years. I have been doing serious woodworking for 30+ years and decided in
the last couple of days that I don't need a jointer. You can probably do
with out one also. You should get a planer before you get a jointer and
with the right jigs you can flatten and straighten a board with a table saw
and a planer, that is what I do.