Type of wood?

On 11/13/2013 9:16 AM, Bill wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>> Now, I just use my drum sander :) Handiest machine I own. But I often
>> don't use it until AFTER I glue up a wider panel; not for thickness at
>> least, I always use it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood
>> which often isn't enough to get it truly flat.
>
> I noticed that Swingman appears to use a scraper for that. But he
> probably joints the wood first (or equivalently, buys it freshly
> jointed). I suspect that if one is going to build "inset" cabinet doors
> (like I was "dared" to try : )), then his or her stock better be
> "well-dimensioned". I have no argument that a drum sander would be
> handy. That is a clever use for it you found for it--of using it to
> help see the wood grain.

I joint the edges of all panel boards, and run each through the planer
to the desired finished thickness, thereby insuring the two faces are
parallel, and all boards are of equal thickness.

Not only do I joint the edges, but I joint them in a very specific
pattern/order:

I alternate the faces of adjacent boards against the jointer fence. IOW,
the top face of one board in a joint goes against the fence on the first
pass, and bottom face of the adjacent board goes against the fence on
the next pass.

Doing this takes advantage of principle of complementary angles,and
negates any mechanical error in the jointer fence being perpendicular to
the jointer table, and insures that the joint between adjacent edges is
precisely 90 degrees.

Taking the time to do this, along with proper clamping techniques, goes
a long way toward having a perfectly _flat_ panel, with no gaps at the
glue joints.

--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/6/2013 8:29 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/6/2013 7:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>> Related topic:
>>
>> I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an "extra
>> property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of cherry boards
>> he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He brought me a small
>> sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since it would need so
>> much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft., or so, might be a fair
>> price. He'll probably think that's a low-ball offer and I'm pretty sure
>> he won't cheat himself. Just curious what the consensus thinks would be
>> a fair offer.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Bill, most cherry is selling for anywhere from 3.35 to 4.50 a bd ft for
> 4/4 depending on locale.
>

Double that for South East Texas.

On 11/8/2013 6:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:35:20 -0500, willshak <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>> Michael <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the info, people who responded. I've been looking at
>>>> pictures on the web and can't tell. I'm making a box for a charity
>>>> auction (it's supposed to have other stuff inside). I guess I could
>>>> label it "Maple or possibly Basswood + Red Oak Splines."
>>>
>>> Basswood tends to be rather soft, while maple isn't all that soft. I don't
>>> have a lot of experience with working either material, so I can't say more
>>> than that.
>>
>>
>> Basswood is softer than Maple. Maple is a hardwood and used to make
>> baseball bats.
>
> Maple baseball bats? I thought they were Ash or Hickory.

Yeah but that is a relatively recent development, ash was the norm many
years ago.

On 11/8/2013 4:50 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/8/2013 12:29 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Excellent Karl! Thanks for the explanation. I wonder (merely pondering
>> now...) how much of that is regional and how widespread that is, as a
>> consideration. After all, we all know that Texas grows some nasty
>> bugs...
>
> Last time I had this bite a client was with this pine flooring that was
> milled from reclaimed beams from a hundred year old tobacco shed in
> North Carolina:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iuQ4XQa3ZBmu_z690YE43KhRRFbzx5XE1RGz0Qo_6Ww?feat=directlink
>

ahhhhh. the beautiful kitchen and island. Remember the hole in the
floor? LOL

On 11/9/2013 4:25 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On 11/8/2013 12:29 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>> Excellent Karl! Thanks for the explanation. I wonder
>>> (merely pondering now...) how much of that is regional
>>> and how widespread that is, as a consideration. After
>>> all, we all know that Texas grows some nasty bugs...
>>
>> Last time I had this bite a client was with this pine
>> flooring that was milled from reclaimed beams from a
>> hundred year old tobacco shed in North Carolina:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iuQ4XQa3ZBmu_z690YE43KhRRFbzx5XE1RGz0Qo_6Ww?feat=directlink
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HOSZjRItitr89Uzd5I0mSqhRRFbzx5XE1RGz0Qo_6Ww?feat=directlink
>>
>> The pinholes and sawdust piles were first seen in the
>> pantry area the back middle of the photo.
>>
>> Beautiful floor, though ...
>
> Soapstone sink?
>


That would be Stainless Steel.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Here's a somewhat related question. Probably because he and I don't have
>>> jointers, he was thinking that I might use it as a veneer on plywood.
>>> I was not thinking along those lines, but it made me ponder. If you were
>>> going to make a kitchen table out of cherry, would you be more likely to
>>> apply it to a stable substrate like plywood, or not? I think I can
>>> think of some of the pros and cons of doing so and not doing so, but I
>>> surely don't have a verdict. Just take it as a "for fun" serous question!
>>>> ) I can't think of a better place in the whole world to pose it!
>> Valid use of a limited supply of wood. For that you will also need to put
>> an 18" Laguana bandsaw on your wish list.
>
> Yes, to make veneer. Gluing 3/8" cherry to plywood is just asking for
> problems due to expansion and contraction, huh?

Although I would normally use a much thinner veneer than 3/8, on both
sides of plywood or MDF, it depends.

You can defy conventional wisdom if you're smart about it.

I once made a veneered panel using 3/4" quartersawn poplar and 1/2"
quarter sawn white oak, and a decade later later it hasn't moved a mm. Both
being quartersawn, they have a similar cross grain expansion coefficient
(which is almost nil) and were glued together with plastic resin glue. In
today's controlled environments, I'll bet they turn to sawdust long before
there is a cross grain expansion problem.

That said, it is not a practice for the faint of heart, or designing and
selling heirlooms to a third party, but it's OK to experiment with your
woodworking endeavors to come up with unique things.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels
>> like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't
>> particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry. Color,
> grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow cut on a high
> speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry cigar.

Those "dark sap marks" are what's known as mineral streaks, much more
common in maple than cherry. I guess we'll only know for sure after some
stain is slathered on. :)

--
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On 11/8/2013 10:44 AM, Bill wrote:
>
> What suggested to you that the "reclaimed wood" might not be suitable
> for flooring? Is wood that has been kiln-dried not the best candidate
> for that function?

Larva in the wood, that can be dormant for years before becoming active,
are generally killed by the process of kiln drying, depending upon the
temperature and duration of the process.

Usually takes about one day at 120F, obviously longer at lower
temperatures, to kill 100% of any possible infestation. So yes, how the
process was performed is critical.

This is a particularly important, as the past few years have seen a big
movement by the touchy/feely crowd to feel better about themselves by
using "recyled/reclaimed" wood products.

Fine, but, as with many liberal/progressive ideas, they fail to take
into account unintended consequences, much to their ultimate
horror/dismay. :)

Not a bid deal with most furniture, but can get very expensive to
rectify when dealing with large areas, like floors.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 8:41:27 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> On 11/8/2013 6:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> > On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:35:20 -0500, willshak <[email protected]>
>=20
> > wrote:
>=20
> >
>=20
> >> Puckdropper wrote:
>=20
> >>> Michael <[email protected]> wrote in
>=20
> >>> news:[email protected]:
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>>> Thanks for the info, people who responded. I've been looking at
>=20
> >>>> pictures on the web and can't tell. I'm making a box for a charity
>=20
> >>>> auction (it's supposed to have other stuff inside). I guess I could
>=20
> >>>> label it "Maple or possibly Basswood + Red Oak Splines."
>=20
> >>>
>=20
> >>> Basswood tends to be rather soft, while maple isn't all that soft. I=
don't
>=20
> >>> have a lot of experience with working either material, so I can't say=
more
>=20
> >>> than that.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> Basswood is softer than Maple. Maple is a hardwood and used to make
>=20
> >> baseball bats.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Maple baseball bats? I thought they were Ash or Hickory.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Yeah but that is a relatively recent development, ash was the norm many=
=20
>=20
> years ago.

In the old days, they used hickory. And then for many years it was ash. Now=
, most bats are made of maple (ash too). They seem to have a little more po=
p. But maple often shattered, endangering players and fans. They changed th=
e specs a little bit and use a dye to make sure the bat makers can find the=
smaller veins in maple. There were far fewer shattered maple bats in the M=
LB this year.

On 11/11/2013 7:36 AM, Bill wrote:

> Gluing up say 6 boards to form a flat surface is intimidating! : )

It is a rare woodworking project, involving desirable hardwood lumber,
that does not entail gluing up a flat panel at some stage, particularly
for table tops.

It should be one of the first skills you develop as a "woodworker", and
a relatively easy one at that. You just have to think through the
process and make sure have all the necessary parts and tools before you
start.

Here's a table top that, due to it's size and heft, required a bit of
planning and foresight.

Scroll down to the last two paragraphs on this page and see how the
large (70 x 42) table top is glued up from 10, 5/4 boards of fairly
expensive quarter sawn white oak:

http://e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/10/2013 2:43 PM, Bill wrote:
> I managed to find the owner of the wood outside today, and I took along
> a book with some pictures of wood with "defects", and asked him about
> his cherry wood. He said that it has been stored indoors for 15 years
> (not stickered, no water damage, no bugs), and he said it was straight.
> The main criticism he had of it was that is was of uneven thicknesses,
> widths and lengths. He estimated quantity at 200-250 bd-ft. He
> affirmed that he was going to bring it to his house near me, though he
> does not seem in a hurry, and I asked him to please let me know when did
> so. I know he does not wish to own it, so a suspect a "pick and choose"
> deal may not be reasonable to him. Will keep you posted!

Stored indoor is good news.

The lengths, thickness and widths are exactly what you would expect from
a sawmill/wood cut off the land and stored, so that should be no surprise.

Also, there is not that much to hurt you if the price is close to your
budget.

Jointer, planer and a table saw and you're in business. Or, in lieu of
the jointer, a Festool track saw. ;)

--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Here's a somewhat related question. Probably because he and I don't have
> jointers, he was thinking that I might use it as a veneer on plywood.
> I was not thinking along those lines, but it made me ponder. If you were
> going to make a kitchen table out of cherry, would you be more likely to
> apply it to a stable substrate like plywood, or not? I think I can
> think of some of the pros and cons of doing so and not doing so, but I
> surely don't have a verdict. Just take it as a "for fun" serous question!
> : ) I can't think of a better place in the whole world to pose it!

Valid use of a limited supply of wood. For that you will also need to put
an 18" Laguana bandsaw on your wish list.

--
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On 11/9/2013 10:20 AM, jloomis wrote:

> That is quite some quality level work I see.
> My word, crown molding, glass windowed doors, 45o angles, granite tops.
> and so many pullouts....amazing piece of work.
> john

Thanks, John ... coming from someone who obviously takes great pride in
his work also, makes your comment even more welcome.

Going on seven years since that one was built and I guarantee those
cabinets, and the house, will outlive most of the unskilled,
unsupervised crap that was built doing the same time period in this area.

Problem is, damned few care about quality any longer. As long as it
looks pretty long enough to sell the first time, the MO is to let
someone else worry about it after that.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/5/2013 6:10 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

>>>
>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>
>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>> Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>> cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>> cigar.
>>
> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark or red enough. Sap marks
> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>
> It's maple.
>

I wonder if computer screens are throwing us off. I went back and
looked again and still think it is cherry. Too pink to be ma[le.

"Bill" wrote:

> Why do I have to enable Javascript to view it?
------------------------------------------------------
Just to give you something to bitch about.

Lew

Michael <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Thanks for the info, people who responded. I've been looking at
> pictures on the web and can't tell. I'm making a box for a charity
> auction (it's supposed to have other stuff inside). I guess I could
> label it "Maple or possibly Basswood + Red Oak Splines."

Basswood tends to be rather soft, while maple isn't all that soft. I don't
have a lot of experience with working either material, so I can't say more
than that.

You'd probably see advertising for something with an unknown hardwood
marked as "hardwood spline" rather than stating a specific wood.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 11/6/2013 7:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>
> Related topic:
>
> I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an "extra
> property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of cherry boards
> he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He brought me a small
> sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since it would need so
> much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft., or so, might be a fair
> price. He'll probably think that's a low-ball offer and I'm pretty sure
> he won't cheat himself. Just curious what the consensus thinks would be
> a fair offer.
>
> Bill

Bill, most cherry is selling for anywhere from 3.35 to 4.50 a bd ft for
4/4 depending on locale.

Figured higher.

if his wood has been well stored and covered , stickered you can expect
to pay around that. If on the other hand it was already surfaced, I
devalue that, since I can't fix it without going thinner.

If it has been stored uncovered and exposed to sunlight, that would
devalue it as it is probably not evenly darkened.

If it is all twisted and looks like a pretzel it can be good fire wood.

It depends on it's shape is what I am saying. If it has bugs, consider
where you are going to store it ,and if you can aford to spray it with
insecticides with your allergies. Do understand spraying is only getting
at the surface to really do damage to the critters you have to spray
down the tunnels, and let it run. Unless they are bark borers..


--
Jeff

"Bill" wrote:

>>
BTW, I got my price estimate by observing that some mills were
> selling cherry for as little as $2/bd-ft. Like you said, location,
> location, location!
-------------------------------------------------------
If it is a reputable local mill offering cherry for $2/bf, why are you
wasting time looking elsewhere?

Lew

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Well certainly - but come on Bill. put the academic shit asidee.
> You asked a specific question and you got got several anwswers
> relevant to that question. Why throw this hyperbole into the mix
> now?
---------------------------------------------------------
Because it doesn't cost Bill any money.

Lew

willshak <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
> Basswood is softer than Maple. Maple is a hardwood and used to make
> baseball bats.
> You can make a dent in basswood with a fingernail. It is much harder
> than balsa wood though.
> I used a lot of thin basswood (up to a 1/4" thick) building dollhouse
> furniture.
> I had to cut it with a Dremel 4" table saw, and turn legs and other
> round items with a Dremel miniature lathe.
> Dremel, now owned by BOSCH, doesn't make those tools anymore, but you
> can find them on eBay.
>

I've been working on other projects, but one of these days I'll get to
using thin wood on my model railroad again. I'm thinking I'm actually
better off using my bandsaw to cut it than a miniature table saw. Since
the teeth only pass through with a downward motion, the workpiece would
be held to the table rather than rattling in the "breeze".

Have you tried using a bandsaw on the really thin material? I'm thinking
about material 1/32-1/8" thick, which is a little thick to get a clean
single cut with a utility knife.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 11/08/2013 05:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Maple baseball bats? I thought they were Ash or Hickory.

That's why they are breaking all over the place, along with the fact
that these millionaire baseball players never figured out the grain
direction. We learned to not hit on the flat grain in the second grade
- else we'd be out a bat for quite a while. Always keep the Louisville
slugger stamp pointed straight up at the point of contact as it was
stamped on the flat grain...

--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 11/10/2013 09:34 PM, Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Without the substrate, due to materials I would end up using a 3/4"
>>>>> cherry top. That should be strong enough until someone jumps up on
>>>>> the table and splits it, huh? ::: Making mental note to glue up the
>>>>> boards to they run the long ways :::
>>>> Have you looked at what a 3/4" cherry board can withstand in terms of
>>>> weight? Or even better - have you consulted with your wife and
>>>> asked her if said person could even make it on top of her table
>>>> before she "intervened..."?
>>>>
>>> I haven't done serious research on tables yet. I've got a table saw,
>>> jointer, and cherry wood practically picked out! :) I also have a
>>> much better grasp of what I like stylistically in furniture compared
>>> to, say, a year ago. It hardly gets much more fun than the design
>>> stage! : )
>>> Regarding your question, it would look bad if the cook dropped a
>>> turkey on the center of the table and the table came apart at the
>>> seams! ; ) I wouldn't even like to see it happen due to 4 bags of
>>> groceries!
>> So - my only question Bill, is why are you worying about that Bill?
>> I was
>> suggesting you simply invesigae table design beore running off
>> thinking you
>> need ply under 3/4". Look under any table....
>
> Yes, though I don't have any with cabriole legs handy! : ) I have
> been thinking of a table top as a panel (with or without frames). The
> research is interesting. I'm a long way from starting this project.
> Hopefully some machinery may start appearing in the next couple of months.
>
> I didn't even think about using plywood until my neighbor suggested that
> he would approach using the cherry wood by veneering plywood. Being a
> relative neophyte, I am receptive to new ideas when I hear them. I can
> always save them for another day, or not.
>
Put some pics on abpw for Bill...


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

"Mike Marlow" wrote:

>
> BTW Bill - since none of us are made out of money, and we have to
> prioritize our purchases, a jointer should be way down on your list.
> Get yourself a decent table saw first.
--------------------------------------------------------
A-Men.

------------------------------------------------------
> - a decent 30 year old Craftsman Model 10 will yield suprising
> results if you take an hour or so to set it up, and put a good blade
> on it.
-----------------------------------------------------
Every time you want to make a cut.

BTDT.

Had a 1950's model for years.

Didn't realize what I had been missing until I started using a Delta
with a Unifence.

Find a 15-20 year old Delta Contractor's saw with a Unifence
and you will have hit the mother lode IMHO.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then - you can cut glue joints right on that saw. Don't believe me?
> Hell - ask Karl.
-------------------------------------------------------
A straight fwd jig.

Check the WoodSmithShop for a pdf file with a set of build dwgs.

Lew

"Bill" wrote:

>> A straight fwd jig. Check the WoodSmithShop for a pdf file with a
>> set of build dwgs. Lew
>
> Thank you, I'll look it up. BTW, that router table you mentioned
> from NYW looks a lot like a piece of furniture for a router table!
-----------------------------------
You expect less from Norm & the NYW team?

Lew

Bill wrote:
>
> I'm talking about getting a flat face on a 5-foot length of lumber,
> not an edge. If you don't like the question, please ignore it.
--------------------------------------------
If you get the face flat over 60%-70% of the surface, that is probably
good enough for the planer at least 90% of the time.

SFWIW, after I learned the proper technique to use a jointer,
it became a "go to" tool more often.

There is something about a 12" jointer.<G>

Lew

"Swingman" wrote:
>
> I joint the edges of all panel boards, and run each through the
> planer to the desired finished thickness, thereby insuring the two
> faces are parallel, and all boards are of equal thickness.
>
> Not only do I joint the edges, but I joint them in a very specific
> pattern/order:
>
> I alternate the faces of adjacent boards against the jointer fence.
> IOW, the top face of one board in a joint goes against the fence on
> the first pass, and bottom face of the adjacent board goes against
> the fence on the next pass.
>
> Doing this takes advantage of principle of complementary angles,and
> negates any mechanical error in the jointer fence being
> perpendicular to the jointer table, and insures that the joint
> between adjacent edges is precisely 90 degrees.
>
> Taking the time to do this, along with proper clamping techniques,
> goes a long way toward having a perfectly _flat_ panel, with no gaps
> at the glue joints.
---------------------------------------------------
The above technique is almost mandatory if you are using a T/S rather
than a jointer.

Eliminates a lot of problems.

I still run the assembled panel thru the drum sander when able.

A 48" drum sander simplifies the hell out of woodworking life.

To bad my guy went up and died.

Have to find a new source.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> A 48" drum sander simplifies the hell out of woodworking life.
>>
>> To bad my guy went up and died.

-------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:
>
> With my luck I would up and die the minute I had a shop big enough
> to put one in.
-------------------------------------------
Sounds about right.

The one I used had three (3), 25 HP motors each driving a different
sanding
drum as well as a 20 HP for the dust collector.

The thing req'd a bigger foot print than a two (2) car garage.

He charged $25 to turn it on, then $1/min after the first 15 minutes.


Lew

On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:06:50 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 11/08/2013 05:58 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Maple baseball bats? I thought they were Ash or Hickory.

Learn something new every day. Thanks.

>That's why they are breaking all over the place, along with the fact
>that these millionaire baseball players never figured out the grain
>direction. We learned to not hit on the flat grain in the second grade
>- else we'd be out a bat for quite a while. Always keep the Louisville
>slugger stamp pointed straight up at the point of contact as it was
>stamped on the flat grain...

We learned that in sand-lot baseball. I suppose that doesn't exist
anymore either.

On 11/7/2013 4:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Depending on grade, in that range here
> http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pdf/cwghardwoodpricelist.pdf


About time someone introduced the the most important factor in the
price, "grade".

Bill, without taking grade into consideration, you can't do anything but
average a stack of wood without going though each board individually, so
use this as your rationale for offering, on the low side, what you think
is a fair price.

IOW, 25% higher waste, even at FAS price, is damned expensive when it
comes to hardwoods.

The other thing is to settle on a higher price for your ability to pick
and choose.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 11:26:06 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>>
>> Has anyone told you that YOU SUCK, recently?
>>
>>
>>
>> When are you going to start selling the Mission table kits?
>
>I am told I suck all the time but not for reasons of envy.

Envy? Well, I suppose we both can't have the same stack of wood. ;-)

>Glad you are interested in the Mission kits. If you notice on my website I say they will be available in late 2011 (I think). That is still the plan ;^).

;-)

I am interested. Very. I've been watching for some time, now. Since
late 2011 was a possibility, anyway.

>I haven't had any time to concentrate on the kit business. The Pine kits were a big fail although my research showed that Mission\Craftsman\Arts and Craft\Stickley anything would sell about 10x better than the cheapo pine stuff. I just didn't have the cash to invest in inventory (QS white oak and maybe Cherry) (on speculation) for the (side) business.

Yeah, I'm not interested in Pine, either. BTDTDLTR (didn't like the
results). If I'm going to go through that I want real furniture.
Since all of our good furniture us Cherry,...

>I came across the Cherry and negotiated it for about $0.75 bf and it included 500 bf of 6/4 and 8/4 white oak beams all 10 ft and 12" wide min up to 15" wide. Actually negotiated for $1.00 bf but our estimate of the size of the stacks was wrong and it was by about 25%. Intent was to put this wood into the kit business but just haven't had the spare cash to speculate, build the kits, run the advertising, etc.

>It is still the dream and may do it once my real job kicks me out or I retire, etc. Maybe sooner than that but kind of on hold as life proceeds.

If you do, please post a notice here. We're looking for exactly what
you're teasing us with. ;-)

I gotta find a good source of wood. I have a bunch of Ash but it's
not in good shape and eight or so 8' 8/4 Maple 2x10s (complete with
tap holes) that I don't know what I'm going to do with (that I've
moved four times now). Buying it from Woodcraft for furniture is just
stupid expensive. Might just as well buy Stickley.

>=20
> Has anyone told you that YOU SUCK, recently?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> When are you going to start selling the Mission table kits?

I am told I suck all the time but not for reasons of envy.

Glad you are interested in the Mission kits. If you notice on my website I =
say they will be available in late 2011 (I think). That is still the plan ;=
^).

I haven't had any time to concentrate on the kit business. The Pine kits we=
re a big fail although my research showed that Mission\Craftsman\Arts and C=
raft\Stickley anything would sell about 10x better than the cheapo pine stu=
ff. I just didn't have the cash to invest in inventory (QS white oak and ma=
ybe Cherry) (on speculation) for the (side) business.

I came across the Cherry and negotiated it for about $0.75 bf and it includ=
ed 500 bf of 6/4 and 8/4 white oak beams all 10 ft and 12" wide min up to 1=
5" wide. Actually negotiated for $1.00 bf but our estimate of the size of =
the stacks was wrong and it was by about 25%. Intent was to put this wood i=
nto the kit business but just haven't had the spare cash to speculate, buil=
d the kits, run the advertising, etc.

It is still the dream and may do it once my real job kicks me out or I reti=
re, etc. Maybe sooner than that but kind of on hold as life proceeds.

>
> Can you send some of it my way..
>
>
I will attempt to sell most of it off once I finish a long term (remodel) project that has me buried right now. If you are in the SF Bay Area you are welcome to buy all you need. I'll prob announce it here once I get my act together.

On Monday, November 4, 2013 9:04:38 AM UTC-6, willshak wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
> > On 11/3/2013 11:10 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> >> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored,
>
> >> feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't
>
> >> particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> >>
>
> >> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> >
>
> > Kinda blurry, but looks like maple.
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> looks kinda like basswood
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bill
>
> In Hamptonburgh, NY
>
> In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
>
> To email, remove the double zeros after @

Thanks for the info, people who responded. I've been looking at pictures on the web and can't tell. I'm making a box for a charity auction (it's supposed to have other stuff inside). I guess I could label it "Maple or possibly Basswood + Red Oak Splines."

On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 9:46:22 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> On 11/3/2013 11:10 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> > Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> >
>
> > http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> >
>
> > Thanks.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> FWIW,
>
>
>
> http://aacerflooring.com/residential-flooring/education/characteristics-of-wood/
>
>
>
> The top row of pictures show close ups of Maple. That is my vote.
>
>
>
> That said, cut a small piece and let it burn against the blade.
>
>
>
> Maple will typically turn brown, cherry will typically turn dark red.

I can't really smell the cherry cigar smell. I'll try this test.

Thanks.

On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:10:14 PM UTC-8, Doug Miller wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
>
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>
> > On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>
> >> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
>
> >> light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting
>
> >> brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I
>
> >> cut it.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> >
>
> > Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>
> > Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>
> > cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>
> > cigar.
>
> >
>
> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark or red enough. Sap marks
>
> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>
>
>
> It's maple.

I have over 10k bf of Cherry right now. Good Appalachian Cherry. Much of it is darker and much of it is lighter than those pieces. Most of it when freshly milled is about that color.

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
>
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
>
>
> Thanks.

Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry. Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry cigar.

BTW I wish I could say "it doesn't smell like much when I cut it."

On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:27:05 PM UTC-6, Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote: Because of my flexibility in most aspects of this transaction=
, I would expect to get a price break compared to the typical retail price.=
> > If necessary, I'll remind him that he told me that a neighbor gave him=
the wood for free! : ) Cheers, Bill

If it's rough cut, it may not be kiln dried. If it's rough cut, at least s=
ome would likely be warped and twisted, unless stickered really well. If it=
's ever gotten wet, it may have water marks. These are aspects of lumber=
I look for, here, in south Louisiana. Lumber in your area may be differe=
nt.

Sonny

On 11/4/2013 6:25 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry. Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry cigar.
>
> BTW I wish I could say "it doesn't smell like much when I cut it."
>
Could be, but I'm still thinking maple..
but you are right it could be Cherry.

--
Jeff

On 11/4/2013 12:10 AM, Michael wrote:
> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Thanks.
>
Looks like Maple.

--
Jeff

On 11/3/2013 11:10 PM, Michael wrote:
> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij

Kinda blurry, but looks like maple.


--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/3/2013 11:10 PM, Michael wrote:
> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Thanks.
>


FWIW,

http://aacerflooring.com/residential-flooring/education/characteristics-of-wood/

The top row of pictures show close ups of Maple. That is my vote.

That said, cut a small piece and let it burn against the blade.

Maple will typically turn brown, cherry will typically turn dark red.

On 11/7/2013 2:21 PM, Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
>>>> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
>>>> much, huh?
>>> How big a piece do you want to wind up with?
>>>
>>> Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something
>>> else
>>> Cup is NP if you need thin wood
>>>
>>> Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow
>>>
>>> Twist is a PITA
>> Oh hell - twist is NP - you simply "design" contemporary furniture...
> Since this wood is "off of the land" and not kiln dried, I suspect I'm
> going to see some twisting...
> I will report back on my findings! : )
>

I prefer air dried over kiln dried. I have just found it works well, and
behaves well. Contrary to what many have tried telling me that air
dried can't get as low as kiln, that really is not the case.

Even if the forrestry service says so.

I have had wood both air and kiln at the same moisture content.
I have had air below kiln, and vice versa.
kiln will soak up moisture during a very moist spell...
so it's all how you keep it.
Next it's how good the guys that manage the kiln are. if they try to
rush it you have dust, or firewood.


--
Jeff

woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>On 11/4/2013 6:25 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry. Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry cigar.
>>
>> BTW I wish I could say "it doesn't smell like much when I cut it."
>>
>Could be, but I'm still thinking maple..
>but you are right it could be Cherry.

I was actually thinking Birch, myself. Those brown stripes are distinctive.

It will be a bit less dense than maple, and perhaps a bit more towards the
yellow than the white.

On 11/8/2013 12:29 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

> Excellent Karl! Thanks for the explanation. I wonder (merely pondering
> now...) how much of that is regional and how widespread that is, as a
> consideration. After all, we all know that Texas grows some nasty bugs...

Last time I had this bite a client was with this pine flooring that was
milled from reclaimed beams from a hundred year old tobacco shed in
North Carolina:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iuQ4XQa3ZBmu_z690YE43KhRRFbzx5XE1RGz0Qo_6Ww?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HOSZjRItitr89Uzd5I0mSqhRRFbzx5XE1RGz0Qo_6Ww?feat=directlink

The pinholes and sawdust piles were first seen in the pantry area the
back middle of the photo.

Beautiful floor, though ...

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/5/2013 5:10 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
>>> light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting
>>> brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I
>>> cut it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>
>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>> Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>> cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>> cigar.
>>
> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark or red enough. Sap marks
> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>
> It's maple.
>


While I still think it is maple and not to argue here but the cherry
that we get in Houston tends to be quite lite in color. I find that it
is so lite that is often difficult to tell from some of the maple unless
it is right next to the maple. If I stare at it for a while I can tell
that the local cherry is not maple but not at first glance.

For instance, this cherry looks a whole lot like maple.

http://www.amazon.com/SOLID-CHERRY-HARDWOOD-LUMBER-CAPITOL/dp/B00633XVZE

On 11/11/2013 4:38 PM, Bill wrote:

>
> Thanks Doug. I misunderstood your message when I first read it. I'm
> going back to abpw to
> look closer at what you posted! :)


Run, don't walk. Absolutely some beautiful work on a table top.


--
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/6/2013 4:48 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:10:14 PM UTC-8, Doug Miller wrote:
>> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>
>>>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
>>
>>>> light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting
>>
>>>> brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I
>>
>>>> cut it.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>>
>>> Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>>
>>> cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>>
>>> cigar.
>>
>>>
>>
>> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark or red enough. Sap marks
>>
>> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's maple.
>
> I have over 10k bf of Cherry right now. Good Appalachian Cherry. Much of it is darker and much of it is lighter than those pieces. Most of it when freshly milled is about that color.
>
Can you send some of it my way..


--
Jeff

On 11/5/2013 8:49 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2013 5:10 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
>>>> light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting
>>>> brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I
>>>> cut it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>>
>>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>>> Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>>> cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>>> cigar.
>>>
>> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark
>> or red enough. Sap marks
>> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>>
>> It's maple.
>>
>
>
> While I still think it is maple and not to argue here but the cherry
> that we get in Houston tends to be quite lite in color. I find that it
> is so lite that is often difficult to tell from some of the maple unless
> it is right next to the maple. If I stare at it for a while I can tell
> that the local cherry is not maple but not at first glance.
>
> For instance, this cherry looks a whole lot like maple.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/SOLID-CHERRY-HARDWOOD-LUMBER-CAPITOL/dp/B00633XVZE
Same here. I have had cherry that is difficult to tell from maple even
side by side. And that is why I stepped back and gave some room...

I like Leon's test of the color of the burn, very true that they have
different burn colors. To me both burn too easily.. I alway push cherry
as fast as it will go to avoid burning. So just slow down let it burn
and determine the color.

--
Jeff

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
>> light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting
>> brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I
>> cut it.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
> Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
> cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
> cigar.
>
No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark or red enough. Sap marks
are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.

It's maple.

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:[email protected]:

> woodchucker <[email protected]> writes:
>>On 11/4/2013 6:25 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood,
has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry. Color, grain, dark sap
marks. It should burn easily if you slow cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a
cherry cigar.
>>>
>>> BTW I wish I could say "it doesn't smell like much when I cut it."
>>>
>>Could be, but I'm still thinking maple..
>>but you are right it could be Cherry.
>
> I was actually thinking Birch, myself. Those brown stripes are distinctive.

Yes, they are -- distinctively maple. Color and grain are wrong for birch, too.
>
> It will be a bit less dense than maple, and perhaps a bit more towards the
> yellow than the white.

Whether birch is less or more dense than maple depends on which maple you're
comparing it to: birch is slightly less dense than hard maple, but a whole lot *more* dense
than soft maple.

Michael <[email protected]> wrote in news:5627e6dc-229e-49b4-ac95-
[email protected]:

> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has
some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij

Maple.

See if you can dent it with your fingernail -- if you can easily leave a noticeable mark, it's soft
maple; if you can't dent it at all, or leave a faint mark only with considerable effort, it's hard
maple.

On 11/9/2013 9:37 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/9/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> ahhhhh. the beautiful kitchen and island.
>
> Looking back over the kitchens you and I have teamed up on the past few
> years, we have indeed done some beautiful, and high quality work.
>
> Photos are one thing, walking back into one of those kitchens after a
> few years absence is a pretty amazing experience, and that makes you
> appreciate that fact even more.
>
> I recently went back into this one which I built and we did the kitchen,
> which is up for sale again at $1.1M:
>
> http://search.har.com/engine/3811-Ruskin-St-Houston-TX-77005_HAR4442254.htm
>
> (Be sure to scroll through photos to see how it still looks after a few
> years have gone by
>
> Here is the kitchen shortly after we finished it:
>
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QBwC3FyIei4/TpG_fkFt9eI/AAAAAAAAIbQ/QhKLG99VCa4/w1363-h1025-no/0808080081.JPG
>
>
>
> Damned good work, Bubba!! Even if I do say so myself ;)
>

Yeah the fact that the kitchen is probably now 6~7years old and still
looks new is testament to the quality.

On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 12:35:20 -0500, willshak <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Puckdropper wrote:
>> Michael <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Thanks for the info, people who responded. I've been looking at
>>> pictures on the web and can't tell. I'm making a box for a charity
>>> auction (it's supposed to have other stuff inside). I guess I could
>>> label it "Maple or possibly Basswood + Red Oak Splines."
>>
>> Basswood tends to be rather soft, while maple isn't all that soft. I don't
>> have a lot of experience with working either material, so I can't say more
>> than that.
>
>
>Basswood is softer than Maple. Maple is a hardwood and used to make
>baseball bats.

Maple baseball bats? I thought they were Ash or Hickory.

>You can make a dent in basswood with a fingernail. It is much harder
>than balsa wood though.
>I used a lot of thin basswood (up to a 1/4" thick) building dollhouse
>furniture.
>I had to cut it with a Dremel 4" table saw, and turn legs and other
>round items with a Dremel miniature lathe.
>Dremel, now owned by BOSCH, doesn't make those tools anymore, but you
>can find them on eBay.
>
>>
>> You'd probably see advertising for something with an unknown hardwood
>> marked as "hardwood spline" rather than stating a specific wood.
>>
>> Puckdropper

I vote soft maple.

Maybe comparing the end grain of your lumber to the end grain pics on this site - http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/ - maple vs cherry, would help. The "Maple, misc" listing has a few more pics, also.

Sonny

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:22:57 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>
>> It wasn't local. It was a few hundred miles due south When I
>> mentioned that I thought cherry was going for about $7 his eyes lit
>> up and he agreed with me. But all of his wood would have to be
>> "reconditioned". I didn't mean I was expecting to pay him that much. On
>> the other hand, provided it's usable, I'll be willing to take it
>> all off his hands.
>
>Holy cow Bill - $7 per board foot!? I guess prices are one hell of a lot
>different there than they are here. Or - were you simply uncertain of the
>real prices? Best advice - always check with a reputable mill in the
>outlying areas to be sure.


Depending on grade, in that range here
http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pdf/cwghardwoodpricelist.pdf

On 11/13/2013 6:45 PM, Bill wrote:

>>
> Thank you very much for sharing your technique!

Por nada .. that's what we're all here for.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

>=20
> So - the prices do appear to vary widely across the geography. =20

Well, generally shipping is going to account for a huge percentage of the c=
ost of a piece of lumber. I would imagine buying Cherry from near the fores=
t where it is cut in the east vs buying in California it has a lot of shipp=
ing cost added in and likely changed hands at least once so you need to pay=
another cut to the distributor.

I was considering buying my own truck to go to the mills and buy QS white o=
ak for my kit business and saving a huge amount. On one note, unfortunately=
most (many) of the small mills that were ready for me to show up have clos=
ed as part of this last big down turn. I'm really glad the current administ=
ration is doing so much to try and help our economy recover... oh wait.

>
> I gotta find a good source of wood. I have a bunch of Ash but it's
>
> not in good shape

Yeah my ash isn't in that good of shape either.

>
> Those "dark sap marks" are what's known as mineral streaks, much more
>
> common in maple than cherry. I guess we'll only know for sure after some
>
> stain is slathered on. :)
>
Mineral streaks more common in Maple and especially soft Maple but sap marks in Cherry super common. Not the same animal.

That said, support for Maple and Birch now somewhat established by others comments IMHO but if the photo is true in color then the pink = Cherry.

On 11/9/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:

> ahhhhh. the beautiful kitchen and island.

Looking back over the kitchens you and I have teamed up on the past few
years, we have indeed done some beautiful, and high quality work.

Photos are one thing, walking back into one of those kitchens after a
few years absence is a pretty amazing experience, and that makes you
appreciate that fact even more.

I recently went back into this one which I built and we did the kitchen,
which is up for sale again at $1.1M:

http://search.har.com/engine/3811-Ruskin-St-Houston-TX-77005_HAR4442254.htm

(Be sure to scroll through photos to see how it still looks after a few
years have gone by

Here is the kitchen shortly after we finished it:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QBwC3FyIei4/TpG_fkFt9eI/AAAAAAAAIbQ/QhKLG99VCa4/w1363-h1025-no/0808080081.JPG


Damned good work, Bubba!! Even if I do say so myself ;)

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/7/2013 7:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> I prefer air dried over kiln dried. I have just found it works well, and
> behaves well. Contrary to what many have tried telling me that air
> dried can't get as low as kiln, that really is not the case.
>
> Even if the forrestry service says so.
>
> I have had wood both air and kiln at the same moisture content.
> I have had air below kiln, and vice versa.
> kiln will soak up moisture during a very moist spell...
> so it's all how you keep it.
> Next it's how good the guys that manage the kiln are. if they try to
> rush it you have dust, or firewood.

It really depends upon its ultimate use. If you're going to use it for
flooring, or built-in's, I always insist on kiln dried wood.

You will appreciate making that distinction after you have a client call
you back wondering what those "pinholes and little piles of sawdust" are
doing on their hardwood floors. ;)

(In that particular instance, I had warned them about that possibility
due to their choice of "reclaimed wood" for their floors, otherwise ...)

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 13:48:09 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:10:14 PM UTC-8, Doug Miller wrote:
>> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>
>> >> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
>>
>> >> light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting
>>
>> >> brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I
>>
>> >> cut it.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>>
>> > Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>>
>> > cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>>
>> > cigar.
>>
>> >
>>
>> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark or red enough. Sap marks
>>
>> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's maple.
>
>I have over 10k bf of Cherry right now. Good Appalachian Cherry. Much of it is darker and much of it is lighter than those pieces. Most of it when freshly milled is about that color.

Has anyone told you that YOU SUCK, recently?

When are you going to start selling the Mission table kits?

On Thu, 07 Nov 2013 15:56:44 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mike Marlow wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
>>> think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture anyway.
>>> I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very dark
>>> (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I suppose
>>> it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
>> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the demand in
>> cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even buying it right now.
>> But - the advertisesed prices remain as they were. For me - and this is
>> just a taste statement - I really prefer the look of walnut over cherry any
>> day. Just a matter of taste...
>>
>If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
>accordingly! ; )

I like Cherry floors, too, but I wouldn't go there. MY furniture
would disappear. ;-) We have dark oak floors in much of the house,
now. Unfortunately, the dining room is carpeted! I'll probably
change all the flooring sometime in the future (the previous owners
chewed it up pretty badly).

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 21:30:43 -0500, woodchucker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 11/6/2013 7:44 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can you send some of it my way..
>>>
>>>
>> I will attempt to sell most of it off once I finish a long term (remodel) project that has me buried right now. If you are in the SF Bay Area you are welcome to buy all you need. I'll prob announce it here once I get my act together.
>>
>NJ and it would not pay for me to ship it.
>I have noticed a drop off in desire for cherry again.. still strong, but
>not as strong as b4..

Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture anyway.
I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very dark
(might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I suppose
it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?

Michael wrote:
> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Thanks.
Why do I have to enable Javascript to view it?

On 11/4/2013 1:34 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> Why do I have to enable Javascript to view it?
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Just to give you something to bitch about.
>
> Lew
>
>

As a result, I didn't view it either. No loss to Michael, I suspect.

Bill

Swingman wrote:
> On 11/3/2013 11:10 PM, Michael wrote:
>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored,
>> feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't
>> particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>>
>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Kinda blurry, but looks like maple.
>
>

looks kinda like basswood

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 11/3/2013 11:10 PM, Michael wrote:
> > Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's
> > light-colored, feels like a hardwood, has some
> > interesting brown marking, doesn't particularly smell
> > like anything when I cut it. http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Kinda blurry, but looks like maple.

My opinion too.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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On 11/4/13, 7:43 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/4/2013 6:25 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:10:14 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>>> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored,
>>> feels like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't
>>> particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry. Color,
>> grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow cut on a high
>> speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry cigar.
>>
>> BTW I wish I could say "it doesn't smell like much when I cut it."
>>
> Could be, but I'm still thinking maple..
> but you are right it could be Cherry.
>

I was thinking maple, but the grain on the far left really looks like
cherry.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 21:10:14 -0800 (PST), Michael
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Can any one tell me what kind of wood this is? It's light-colored, feels
> like a hardwood, has some interesting brown marking, doesn't
> particularly smell like anything when I cut it.
>
> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>
> Thanks.

Obviously it's dogwood.

Looks to me like he is guarding it. ;)

On 11/5/13, 8:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 11/5/2013 6:10 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> http://imageshack.com/i/0xm6fij
>>>
>>> Uhh not sure what these others are thinking but that is Cherry.
>>> Color, grain, dark sap marks. It should burn easily if you slow
>>> cut on a high speed tool and then smell a bit like a cherry
>>> cigar.
>>>
>> No, it's not. The color is totally wrong for cherry, not nearly dark
>> or red enough. Sap marks
>> are too wide for cherry, and also not dark enough.
>>
>> It's maple.
>>
>
> I wonder if computer screens are throwing us off. I went back and
> looked again and still think it is cherry. Too pink to be ma[le.

Perhaps your monitor. My is calibrated and I see no pink.
That picture, however is a little warm in temperature which may be
screwing to more pink in your monitor.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Related topic:

I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an "extra
property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of cherry boards
he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He brought me a small
sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since it would need so
much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft., or so, might be a fair
price. He'll probably think that's a low-ball offer and I'm pretty sure
he won't cheat himself. Just curious what the consensus thinks would be
a fair offer.

Bill

Bill wrote:
>
>
> Related topic:
>
> I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an
> "extra property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of
> cherry boards he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He
> brought me a small sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since
> it would need so much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft., or so,
> might be a fair price. He'll probably think that's a low-ball offer
> and I'm pretty sure he won't cheat himself. Just curious what the
> consensus thinks would be a fair offer.
>
> Bill

I know I should check for things like cracking. Anything else, like "bugs"?
I don't know if the boards are resting on dirt or concrete.

Cherry would fit into my plans pretty well, I hope he has plenty!
Floor space will go q quick! : )

Bill

woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/6/2013 7:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>> Related topic:
>>
>> I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an "extra
>> property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of cherry boards
>> he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He brought me a small
>> sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since it would need so
>> much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft., or so, might be a fair
>> price. He'll probably think that's a low-ball offer and I'm pretty sure
>> he won't cheat himself. Just curious what the consensus thinks would be
>> a fair offer.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Bill, most cherry is selling for anywhere from 3.35 to 4.50 a bd ft
> for 4/4 depending on locale.
>
> Figured higher.
>
> if his wood has been well stored and covered , stickered you can
> expect to pay around that. If on the other hand it was already
> surfaced, I devalue that, since I can't fix it without going thinner.
>
> If it has been stored uncovered and exposed to sunlight, that would
> devalue it as it is probably not evenly darkened.
>
> If it is all twisted and looks like a pretzel it can be good fire wood.
>
> It depends on it's shape is what I am saying. If it has bugs,
> consider where you are going to store it ,and if you can aford to
> spray it with insecticides with your allergies. Do understand spraying
> is only getting at the surface to really do damage to the critters you
> have to spray down the tunnels, and let it run. Unless they are bark
> borers..
>
>
Jeff, Thank you! You raised some really good points that didn't even
occur to me. He told me that someone gave the wood to him quite a long
while back. If it needs to be treated with insecticides then I will
walk away (thanks for bring up the allergy point). Also, I don't want
extra wood-eaters near my house! I just tossed out a "shop worm"--I'm
not sure how it got it (it's raining outside)! You provided me with
some good questions to ask or think about (before making the 30 mile
trip)! BTW, I got my price estimate by observing that some mills were
selling cherry for as little as $2/bd-ft. Like you said, location,
location, location!

Bill

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
> BTW, I got my price estimate by observing that some mills were
>> selling cherry for as little as $2/bd-ft. Like you said, location,
>> location, location!
> -------------------------------------------------------
> If it is a reputable local mill offering cherry for $2/bf, why are you
> wasting time looking elsewhere?
>
> Lew
>
>
It wasn't local. It was a few hundred miles due south When I mentioned
that I thought cherry was going for about $7 his eyes lit up and he
agreed with me. But all of his wood would have to be "reconditioned".
I didn't mean I was expecting to pay him that much. On the other hand,
provided it's usable, I'll be willing to take it all off his hands.

Some cherry here:
http://irsauctions.com/index_search_results.asp?ind=50&srch=366

Bill wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>> Figured higher.
>>
>> if his wood has been well stored and covered , stickered you can
>> expect to pay around that. If on the other hand it was already
>> surfaced, I devalue that, since I can't fix it without going thinner.
>>
>> If it has been stored uncovered and exposed to sunlight, that would
>> devalue it as it is probably not evenly darkened.
>>

I took it for granted that it would all need to be run through a
jointer. Do those effects from the exposure to sunlight, etc, run
deep? Based on the evidence, I think it's fair to say that the tree(s)
were cut down at least 10 years ago. Maybe that's not so much in tree
or dog-years. I get the feeling that the wood is stored in an outdoor
shelter. And ratts, that's the sort of question I should have already
asked... (however, you are teaching me).

I learned that cherry weighs about 3#/board-ft, so that provides another
weigh to measure it. OTOH, I suspect I will do probably do better just
offering a dollar amount for the whole lot--"as is, where is" (and that
seems more normal to ordinary folks). Because of my flexibility in most
aspects of this transaction, I would expect to get a price break
compared to the typical retail price.

Bill

Bill wrote:
Because of my flexibility in most aspects of this transaction, I
would expect to get a price break compared to the typical retail price.
>
>
If necessary, I'll remind him that he told me that a neighbor gave him
the wood for free! : )

Cheers,
Bill

Bill wrote:

> It wasn't local. It was a few hundred miles due south When I
> mentioned that I thought cherry was going for about $7 his eyes lit
> up and he agreed with me. But all of his wood would have to be
> "reconditioned". I didn't mean I was expecting to pay him that much. On
> the other hand, provided it's usable, I'll be willing to take it
> all off his hands.

Holy cow Bill - $7 per board foot!? I guess prices are one hell of a lot
different there than they are here. Or - were you simply uncertain of the
real prices? Best advice - always check with a reputable mill in the
outlying areas to be sure.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> Because of my flexibility in most aspects of this transaction, I
> would expect to get a price break compared to the typical retail
> price.
>>
>>
> If necessary, I'll remind him that he told me that a neighbor gave him
> the wood for free! : )
>

That's not a bad concept Bill, but do yourself a favor and first - find out
what a reputable mill will charge for a like cut. Then, negotiate down from
that point.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> Because of my flexibility in most aspects of this transaction, I
> would expect to get a price break compared to the typical retail
> price.
>>
>>
> If necessary, I'll remind him that he told me that a neighbor gave him
> the wood for free! : )
>

I have another idea Bill. It's hard to know if you're getting a good deal
or not when you really don't know anything about the item you're purchasing.
On top of that - a group like this cannot fully enough inform you. So...
use the comments of this group, and I suggest you venture forth on a field
trip with the wife, and spend a day to find an outlying mill that will
coach, teach, and otherwise spend the time with you to understand what you
should be looking for. It would be a great fun day, and you'd really see
and learn some things. Very cool. You may find that your friend has a gold
mine he does not realize, and you may find he has firewood. Remember - not
all cherry is good wood. In fact - in my opinion, it's not even good
firewood. Stinky, smoldery stuff. I'll take maple any day. Even beech,
and I'm not horribly fond of beech. But... I digress... A small and
interesting investment in your time will reward you richly. Get away from
all of the big guys and go find a small guy. Pack a picnic lunch and make a
day of it. You'll have a ton of fun and you'll learn more than you can
imagine. Then, you can make your decision.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:
> On 11/6/2013 8:29 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 11/6/2013 7:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Related topic:
>>>
>>> I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an
>>> "extra property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of
>>> cherry boards he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He
>>> brought me a small sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since it
>>> would need so much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft.,
>>> or so, might be a fair price. He'll probably think that's a
>>> low-ball offer and I'm pretty sure he won't cheat himself. Just
>>> curious what the consensus thinks would be a fair offer.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> Bill, most cherry is selling for anywhere from 3.35 to 4.50 a bd ft for
>> 4/4 depending on locale.
>>
>
> Double that for South East Texas.

So - the prices do appear to vary widely across the geography. Now the
question is what is the quality of the wood in question. As I stated to
Bill in a different response - cherry is not God's wood - some of it is no
better than firewood, and in my opinion, not even a good firewood.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:22:57 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> It wasn't local. It was a few hundred miles due south When I
>>> mentioned that I thought cherry was going for about $7 his eyes lit
>>> up and he agreed with me. But all of his wood would have to be
>>> "reconditioned". I didn't mean I was expecting to pay him that
>>> much. On the other hand, provided it's usable, I'll be willing to
>>> take it
>>> all off his hands.
>>
>> Holy cow Bill - $7 per board foot!? I guess prices are one hell of
>> a lot different there than they are here. Or - were you simply
>> uncertain of the real prices? Best advice - always check with a
>> reputable mill in the outlying areas to be sure.
>
>
> Depending on grade, in that range here
> http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pdf/cwghardwoodpricelist.pdf

Turns out cherry is still up there at similar prices at the local hardwood
dealer near me as well. I was just talking with a sawyer about two weeks
ago who said the market had really collapsed for cherry and that they
weren't even buying it right now. Local price sheets still show it right up
there at prices similar to what Bill found in his area, so either the price
sheets are out of date, or that soft market hasn't caused them to lower
their prices.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 11/7/2013 12:22 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> It wasn't local. It was a few hundred miles due south When I
>> mentioned that I thought cherry was going for about $7 his eyes lit
>> up and he agreed with me. But all of his wood would have to be
>> "reconditioned". I didn't mean I was expecting to pay him that much. On
>> the other hand, provided it's usable, I'll be willing to take it
>> all off his hands.
>
> Holy cow Bill - $7 per board foot!? I guess prices are one hell of a lot
> different there than they are here. Or - were you simply uncertain of the
> real prices? Best advice - always check with a reputable mill in the
> outlying areas to be sure.
>

Local lumberyard lists $5.50-6.00 for 4/4. At the time, I was just
guessing--and we were just chatting. At my local Woodcraft it could
easily be twice as much! : )

On 11/7/2013 12:45 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 11/6/2013 8:29 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 11/6/2013 7:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Related topic:
>>>>
>>>> I know someone who is no longer into woodworking that selling an
>>>> "extra property" and needs get rid of a "pretty large stack" of
>>>> cherry boards he has long had there. I have not seen the stack. He
>>>> brought me a small sample--about 1" thick and not quartersawn. Since it
>>>> would need so much work, I was thinking that $1.50/bd-ft.,
>>>> or so, might be a fair price. He'll probably think that's a
>>>> low-ball offer and I'm pretty sure he won't cheat himself. Just
>>>> curious what the consensus thinks would be a fair offer.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Bill, most cherry is selling for anywhere from 3.35 to 4.50 a bd ft for
>>> 4/4 depending on locale.
>>>
>>
>> Double that for South East Texas.
>
> So - the prices do appear to vary widely across the geography. Now the
> question is what is the quality of the wood in question. As I stated to
> Bill in a different response - cherry is not God's wood - some of it is no
> better than firewood, and in my opinion, not even a good firewood.
>

I'm glad you mention that because it will help me to look with a more
critical eye. Already having at least two homes, I doubt it has been
truly properly cared for. Maybe I'll ask for a picture. Thanks for the
suggestions. At least I'm already not quite the "naive sap" I was! ; )
As far as a "field trip", remember, I'm still looking for a saw. I
am hoping Grizzly may offer some black friday savings! In the last
few months I've only seen price increases from them!

I did take a field trip to a cabinet shop/factory auction earlier this
week (they evidently are moving), and that was very interesting in
itself! Converatively, it had to be 40K square feet (4 x 100x100).
If one wanted shaper bits, they (and lots of other stuff) were going
cheap! There were only about 25 people present bidding. It reminds me
of another auction I went to one time where there was just so much
"more stuff than people"!

On 11/7/2013 6:51 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 10:27:05 PM UTC-6, Bill wrote:
>> Bill wrote: Because of my flexibility in most aspects of this transaction, I would expect to get a price break compared to the typical retail price. > > If necessary, I'll remind him that he told me that a neighbor gave him the wood for free! : ) Cheers, Bill
>
> If it's rough cut, it may not be kiln dried. If it's rough cut, at least some would likely be warped and twisted,


I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of that can I get
away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too much, huh?



unless stickered really well. If it's ever gotten wet, it may have
water marks. These are aspects of lumber I look for, here, in south
Louisiana. Lumber in your area may be different.
>
> Sonny
>

On 11/7/2013 9:24 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/7/2013 4:55 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Depending on grade, in that range here
>> http://www.cwghardwoodoutlet.com/pdf/cwghardwoodpricelist.pdf
>
>
> About time someone introduced the the most important factor in the
> price, "grade".
>
> Bill, without taking grade into consideration, you can't do anything but
> average a stack of wood without going though each board individually, so
> use this as your rationale for offering, on the low side, what you think
> is a fair price.
>
> IOW, 25% higher waste, even at FAS price, is damned expensive when it
> comes to hardwoods.
>
> The other thing is to settle on a higher price for your ability to pick
> and choose.
>

Thank you. I've learned enough from everyone's comments to pursue this
Much More Intelligently (than just buying a "big stack of cherry")!

Bill

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> IOW, 25% higher waste, even at FAS price, is damned
> expensive when it comes to hardwoods.

I normally buy #1 common. The sizes needed for 90% of what I make can be
easily cut out of that; if not, I can usually find a place to bury (hide)
it.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
> much, huh?

How big a piece do you want to wind up with?

Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something else

Cup is NP if you need thin wood

Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow

Twist is a PITA


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dadiOH wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
>> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
>> much, huh?
>
> How big a piece do you want to wind up with?
>
> Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something
> else
> Cup is NP if you need thin wood
>
> Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow
>
> Twist is a PITA

Oh hell - twist is NP - you simply "design" contemporary furniture...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>> Because of my flexibility in most aspects of this transaction, I
>> would expect to get a price break compared to the typical retail
>> price.
>>>
>> If necessary, I'll remind him that he told me that a neighbor gave him
>> the wood for free! : )
>>
> I have another idea Bill. It's hard to know if you're getting a good deal
> or not when you really don't know anything about the item you're purchasing.
> On top of that - a group like this cannot fully enough inform you. So...
> use the comments of this group, and I suggest you venture forth on a field
> trip with the wife, and spend a day to find an outlying mill that will
> coach, teach, and otherwise spend the time with you to understand what you
> should be looking for.
What makes you believe they will want to do all that for me when I don't
even have a pickup truck? I got a lot of useful tips here. I will watch
for my neighbor to offer him a few questions. He also wants to sell me
a Hitachi 3.25 HP router. Based upon his table saw, I assume it is the
one which is selling new for $209. I haven't seen it.

So, back to these 4/4 boards. We want them to be straight, obviously.
How much twist do they need to have before they are basically firewood?
I would understand units like degrees-per-foot.

Bill

dadiOH wrote:
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
>> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
>> much, huh?
> How big a piece do you want to wind up with?
I want to make kitchen table and coffee table from it.

>
> Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something else
>
> Cup is NP if you need thin wood
>
> Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow
>
> Twist is a PITA
>
>

Mike Marlow wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
>>> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
>>> much, huh?
>> How big a piece do you want to wind up with?
>>
>> Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something
>> else
>> Cup is NP if you need thin wood
>>
>> Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow
>>
>> Twist is a PITA
> Oh hell - twist is NP - you simply "design" contemporary furniture...
Since this wood is "off of the land" and not kiln dried, I suspect I'm
going to see some twisting...
I will report back on my findings! : )

[email protected] wrote:

> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
> think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture anyway.
> I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very dark
> (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I suppose
> it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?

Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the demand in
cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even buying it right now.
But - the advertisesed prices remain as they were. For me - and this is
just a taste statement - I really prefer the look of walnut over cherry any
day. Just a matter of taste...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

> What makes you believe they will want to do all that for me when I
> don't even have a pickup truck?

Experience in going in to places like this and doing exactly what I
suggested. You'd be surprised at how receptive they can be to people who
really want to learn. That's why I said to go to an outlying area and not
the big guy who is retail focused. I've done it - I know it works.

> I got a lot of useful tips here. I
> will watch for my neighbor to offer him a few questions.

Sure you have, and that's why I stated that this group does indeed have a
certain value. But - you've also seen the amount of discord in even
something as simple as deciding what a particular board is from a picture,
so how could you possibly expect to gain enough knowldege from people who
have not even seen the lumber you're looking at, or to even to take into
account that there are voices here that do not have genuinely experienced
opinions. I'm just suggesting you grow your own knowledge in a first hand
way and not rely upon usenet to inform you. That my friend will never work.


> He also
> wants to sell me a Hitachi 3.25 HP router. Based upon his table saw,
> I assume it is the one which is selling new for $209. I haven't seen
> it.

How do you figure the price of a router based upon his table saw?


>
> So, back to these 4/4 boards. We want them to be straight, obviously.
> How much twist do they need to have before they are basically
> firewood? I would understand units like degrees-per-foot.
>

None.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
>>>> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
>>>> much, huh?
>>> How big a piece do you want to wind up with?
>>>
>>> Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something
>>> else
>>> Cup is NP if you need thin wood
>>>
>>> Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow
>>>
>>> Twist is a PITA
>> Oh hell - twist is NP - you simply "design" contemporary furniture...
> Since this wood is "off of the land" and not kiln dried, I suspect I'm
> going to see some twisting...
> I will report back on my findings! : )

"off the land" is kind of meaningless Bill. Before kilns, sticker stacked
wood was the norm. Kiln drying adds some benefits, but it also adds some
problems to wood. Don't hang your hat on kiln drying. All wood Bill, comes
"off the land".

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood,
> > in general? I think Cherry is the nicest looking wood
> > around, for furniture anyway. I have noticed that
> > furniture stores are only carrying very dark (might
> > just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I
> > suppose it's the style. Maybe the same deal with
> > Cherry?
>
> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me
> the demand in cherry has fallen off dramatically. They
> aren't even buying it right now. But - the advertisesed
> prices remain as they were. For me - and this is just a
> taste statement - I really prefer the look of walnut over
> cherry any day. Just a matter of taste...

Me too. I don't care much at all for either cherry or maple. Walnut I
like. Ditto mahogany and hickory (a too often overlooked wood); others too
but those are the common ones.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

In article <[email protected]>
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>Bill wrote:
>
>> He also
>> wants to sell me a Hitachi 3.25 HP router. Based upon his table saw,
>> I assume it is the one which is selling new for $209. I haven't seen
>> it.
>
>How do you figure the price of a router based upon his table saw?

SWAG: The saw is the model Lowes carries, and Bill knows that Lowes
is selling a 3.25HP Hitachi router for $209. (Replace "Lowes" with
whatever big-box is in his region.)


--
Drew Lawson And I know there's more to the story
I know I need to see more
I need to see s'more, hear s'more
feel s'more. I gotta be s'more

Mike Marlow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
>> think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture anyway.
>> I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very dark
>> (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I suppose
>> it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the demand in
> cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even buying it right now.
> But - the advertisesed prices remain as they were. For me - and this is
> just a taste statement - I really prefer the look of walnut over cherry any
> day. Just a matter of taste...
>
If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
accordingly! ; )

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> dadiOH wrote:
>>>> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>
>>>>> I suspect it is a little warped and twisted. How much of
>>>>> that can I get away with in an 6 foot 4/4 piece? Not too
>>>>> much, huh?
>>>> How big a piece do you want to wind up with?
>>>>
>>>> Bow is NP if you can bend it straight when you afix it to something
>>>> else
>>>> Cup is NP if you need thin wood
>>>>
>>>> Crook is NP if you need shorts or narrow
>>>>
>>>> Twist is a PITA
>>> Oh hell - twist is NP - you simply "design" contemporary furniture...
>> Since this wood is "off of the land" and not kiln dried, I suspect I'm
>> going to see some twisting...
>> I will report back on my findings! : )
> "off the land" is kind of meaningless Bill. Before kilns, sticker stacked
> wood was the norm. Kiln drying adds some benefits, but it also adds some
> problems to wood. Don't hang your hat on kiln drying. All wood Bill, comes
> "off the land".
>
He didn't say anything about it being "sticker-stacked". He said
neighbor gave it to him. But he acts like he's talking about stuff in a
jewelry case. I will find out and report back.

Drew Lawson wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> He also
>>> wants to sell me a Hitachi 3.25 HP router. Based upon his table
>>> saw, I assume it is the one which is selling new for $209. I
>>> haven't seen it.
>>
>> How do you figure the price of a router based upon his table saw?
>
> SWAG: The saw is the model Lowes carries, and Bill knows that Lowes
> is selling a 3.25HP Hitachi router for $209. (Replace "Lowes" with
> whatever big-box is in his region.)

Doesn't your local Lowes carry more than one model table saw and router?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
>>> think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture
>>> anyway. I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very
>>> dark (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I
>>> suppose it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
>> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the demand
>> in cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even buying it
>> right now. But - the advertisesed prices remain as they were. For
>> me - and this is just a taste statement - I really prefer the look
>> of walnut over cherry any day. Just a matter of taste...
>>
> If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
> accordingly! ; )

Certainly... but I did not see that as a requirement in this conversation.
Wasn't this about a pile of cherry a friend of yours has?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
>>>> think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture
>>>> anyway. I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very
>>>> dark (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I
>>>> suppose it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
>>> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the demand
>>> in cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even buying it
>>> right now. But - the advertisesed prices remain as they were. For
>>> me - and this is just a taste statement - I really prefer the look
>>> of walnut over cherry any day. Just a matter of taste...
>>>
>> If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
>> accordingly! ; )
> Certainly... but I did not see that as a requirement in this conversation.
> Wasn't this about a pile of cherry a friend of yours has?
I was just illustrating, hypothetically of course, how circumstances can
have an affect on preference or taste...

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Drew Lawson wrote:
>> w do you figure the price of a router based upon his table saw?
>> SWAG: The saw is the model Lowes carries, and Bill knows that Lowes
>> is selling a 3.25HP Hitachi router for $209. (Replace "Lowes" with
>> whatever big-box is in his region.)
> Doesn't your local Lowes carry more than one model table saw and router?
>
No, there's just one of each... ; )

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Drew Lawson wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> He also
>>>> wants to sell me a Hitachi 3.25 HP router. Based upon his table
>>>> saw, I assume it is the one which is selling new for $209. I
>>>> haven't seen it.
>>> How do you figure the price of a router based upon his table saw?
>> SWAG: The saw is the model Lowes carries, and Bill knows that Lowes
>> is selling a 3.25HP Hitachi router for $209. (Replace "Lowes" with
>> whatever big-box is in his region.)
> Doesn't your local Lowes carry more than one model table saw and router?
>
Mike M., IIRC, you're a HD guy. How many different 3.25HP routers do
they have on the shelf?

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general? I
>>>>> think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture
>>>>> anyway. I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying very
>>>>> dark (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these days. I
>>>>> suppose it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
>>>> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the demand
>>>> in cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even buying it
>>>> right now. But - the advertisesed prices remain as they were. For
>>>> me - and this is just a taste statement - I really prefer the look
>>>> of walnut over cherry any day. Just a matter of taste...
>>>>
>>> If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
>>> accordingly! ; )
>> Certainly... but I did not see that as a requirement in this
>> conversation.
>> Wasn't this about a pile of cherry a friend of yours has?
>
Sorry, Mike. I may have forgotten that there are several conversations
going on here all at the same time.

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Drew Lawson wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>
>>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He also
>>>>> wants to sell me a Hitachi 3.25 HP router. Based upon his table
>>>>> saw, I assume it is the one which is selling new for $209. I
>>>>> haven't seen it.
>>>> How do you figure the price of a router based upon his table saw?
>>> SWAG: The saw is the model Lowes carries, and Bill knows that Lowes
>>> is selling a 3.25HP Hitachi router for $209. (Replace "Lowes" with
>>> whatever big-box is in his region.)
>> Doesn't your local Lowes carry more than one model table saw and
>> router?
> Mike M., IIRC, you're a HD guy. How many different 3.25HP routers do
> they have on the shelf?

I really don't remember, but don't I recall you drawing the conludsion that
a particular router or table saw was based on the other piece being on the
floor at the store? That would be a short sighted conclusion. Geeze - at
least use the web...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general?
>>>>> I think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture
>>>>> anyway. I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying
>>>>> very dark (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these
>>>>> days. I suppose it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
>>>> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the
>>>> demand in cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even
>>>> buying it right now. But - the advertisesed prices remain as they
>>>> were. For me - and this is just a taste statement - I really
>>>> prefer the look of walnut over cherry any day. Just a matter of
>>>> taste...
>>> If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
>>> accordingly! ; )
>> Certainly... but I did not see that as a requirement in this
>> conversation. Wasn't this about a pile of cherry a friend of yours
>> has?
> I was just illustrating, hypothetically of course, how circumstances
> can have an affect on preference or taste...

Well certainly - but come on Bill. put the academic shit asidee. You asked
a specific question and you got got several anwswers relevant to that
question. Why throw this hyperbole into the mix now?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 11/7/2013 11:59 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Amazing. Is there a drop off in the demand for wood, in general?
>>>>>> I think Cherry is the nicest looking wood around, for furniture
>>>>>> anyway. I have noticed that furniture stores are only carrying
>>>>>> very dark (might just as well be painted black) "wood", these
>>>>>> days. I suppose it's the style. Maybe the same deal with Cherry?
>>>>> Fads, fashions and taste I guess. A local sawyer told me the
>>>>> demand in cherry has fallen off dramatically. They aren't even
>>>>> buying it right now. But - the advertisesed prices remain as they
>>>>> were. For me - and this is just a taste statement - I really
>>>>> prefer the look of walnut over cherry any day. Just a matter of
>>>>> taste...
>>>> If you already had a cherry floor, you might adjust your taste
>>>> accordingly! ; )
>>> Certainly... but I did not see that as a requirement in this
>>> conversation. Wasn't this about a pile of cherry a friend of yours
>>> has?
>> I was just illustrating, hypothetically of course, how circumstances
>> can have an affect on preference or taste...
>
> Well certainly - but come on Bill. put the academic shit asidee. You asked
> a specific question and you got got several anwswers relevant to that
> question. Why throw this hyperbole into the mix now?
>

I don't think it's a hyperbole because half of my house HAS a cherry floor!

On 11/8/2013 12:54 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Well certainly - but come on Bill. put the academic shit asidee.
>> You asked a specific question and you got got several anwswers
>> relevant to that question. Why throw this hyperbole into the mix
>> now?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Because it doesn't cost Bill any money.
>
> Lew
>
>

As I mentioned it wasn't a hyperbole. I can't afford a hyperbole--you
think I'm Pythagoras, or something?

Bill wrote:
> On 11/8/2013 12:54 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Well certainly - but come on Bill. put the academic shit asidee.
>>> You asked a specific question and you got got several anwswers
>>> relevant to that question. Why throw this hyperbole into the mix
>>> now?
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Because it doesn't cost Bill any money.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> As I mentioned it wasn't a hyperbole. I can't afford a hyperbole--you
> think I'm Pythagoras, or something?

I can probably cut you a good deal on some slightly used hyperbole... It's
been treated lovingly and still has lots of life left in it.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 11/8/2013 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/7/2013 7:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> I prefer air dried over kiln dried. I have just found it works well, and
>> behaves well. Contrary to what many have tried telling me that air
>> dried can't get as low as kiln, that really is not the case.
>>
>> Even if the forrestry service says so.
>>
>> I have had wood both air and kiln at the same moisture content.
>> I have had air below kiln, and vice versa.
>> kiln will soak up moisture during a very moist spell...
>> so it's all how you keep it.
>> Next it's how good the guys that manage the kiln are. if they try to
>> rush it you have dust, or firewood.
>
> It really depends upon its ultimate use. If you're going to use it for
> flooring, or built-in's, I always insist on kiln dried wood.
>
> You will appreciate making that distinction after you have a client call
> you back wondering what those "pinholes and little piles of sawdust" are
> doing on their hardwood floors. ;)
>
> (In that particular instance, I had warned them about that possibility
> due to their choice of "reclaimed wood" for their floors, otherwise ...)
>

What suggested to you that the "reclaimed wood" might not be suitable
for flooring? Is wood that has been kiln-dried not the best candidate
for that function?

On 11/8/2013 11:44 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 11/8/2013 10:25 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 11/7/2013 7:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>>> I prefer air dried over kiln dried. I have just found it works well, and
>>> behaves well. Contrary to what many have tried telling me that air
>>> dried can't get as low as kiln, that really is not the case.
>>>
>>> Even if the forrestry service says so.
>>>
>>> I have had wood both air and kiln at the same moisture content.
>>> I have had air below kiln, and vice versa.
>>> kiln will soak up moisture during a very moist spell...
>>> so it's all how you keep it.
>>> Next it's how good the guys that manage the kiln are. if they try to
>>> rush it you have dust, or firewood.
>>
>> It really depends upon its ultimate use. If you're going to use it for
>> flooring, or built-in's, I always insist on kiln dried wood.
>>
>> You will appreciate making that distinction after you have a client call
>> you back wondering what those "pinholes and little piles of sawdust" are
>> doing on their hardwood floors. ;)
>>
>> (In that particular instance, I had warned them about that possibility
>> due to their choice of "reclaimed wood" for their floors, otherwise ...)
>>
>
> What suggested to you that the "reclaimed wood" might not be suitable
> for flooring? Is wood that has been kiln-dried not the best candidate
> for that function?

I read what was posted above more carefully. Evidently, some people run
a kiln better than others.

Puckdropper wrote:
> Michael <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Thanks for the info, people who responded. I've been looking at
>> pictures on the web and can't tell. I'm making a box for a charity
>> auction (it's supposed to have other stuff inside). I guess I could
>> label it "Maple or possibly Basswood + Red Oak Splines."
>
> Basswood tends to be rather soft, while maple isn't all that soft. I don't
> have a lot of experience with working either material, so I can't say more
> than that.


Basswood is softer than Maple. Maple is a hardwood and used to make
baseball bats.
You can make a dent in basswood with a fingernail. It is much harder
than balsa wood though.
I used a lot of thin basswood (up to a 1/4" thick) building dollhouse
furniture.
I had to cut it with a Dremel 4" table saw, and turn legs and other
round items with a Dremel miniature lathe.
Dremel, now owned by BOSCH, doesn't make those tools anymore, but you
can find them on eBay.

>
> You'd probably see advertising for something with an unknown hardwood
> marked as "hardwood spline" rather than stating a specific wood.
>
> Puckdropper


--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

Swingman wrote:
> On 11/8/2013 10:44 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> What suggested to you that the "reclaimed wood" might not be suitable
>> for flooring? Is wood that has been kiln-dried not the best candidate
>> for that function?
>
> Larva in the wood, that can be dormant for years before becoming
> active, are generally killed by the process of kiln drying, depending
> upon the temperature and duration of the process.
>
> Usually takes about one day at 120F, obviously longer at lower
> temperatures, to kill 100% of any possible infestation. So yes, how
> the process was performed is critical.
>
> This is a particularly important, as the past few years have seen a
> big movement by the touchy/feely crowd to feel better about themselves
> by using "recyled/reclaimed" wood products.
>
> Fine, but, as with many liberal/progressive ideas, they fail to take
> into account unintended consequences, much to their ultimate
> horror/dismay. :)

Thank you for clarifying! I did not grog where the "pin holes" were
coming from! : ) That reminds me of a Texas boll weavel song ("...just
looking for a home, just looking for a home...")!

Bill
>
> Not a bid deal with most furniture, but can get very expensive to
> rectify when dealing with large areas, like floors.
>

On 11/8/13, 11:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
> Fine, but, as with many liberal/progressive ideas, they fail to take
> into account unintended consequences, much to their ultimate
> horror/dismay. :)
>

Beautiful. +100


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 11/8/2013 10:44 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> What suggested to you that the "reclaimed wood" might not be suitable
>>> for flooring? Is wood that has been kiln-dried not the best candidate
>>> for that function?
>>
>> Larva in the wood, that can be dormant for years before becoming
>> active, are generally killed by the process of kiln drying, depending
>> upon the temperature and duration of the process.
>>
>> Usually takes about one day at 120F, obviously longer at lower
>> temperatures, to kill 100% of any possible infestation. So yes, how
>> the process was performed is critical.
>>
>> This is a particularly important, as the past few years have seen a
>> big movement by the touchy/feely crowd to feel better about
>> themselves by using "recyled/reclaimed" wood products.
>>
>> Fine, but, as with many liberal/progressive ideas, they fail to take
>> into account unintended consequences, much to their ultimate
>> horror/dismay. :)
>
> Thank you for clarifying! I did not grog where the "pin holes" were
> coming from! : ) That reminds me of a Texas boll weavel song
> ("...just looking for a home, just looking for a home...")!
That song seems to have been recorded in some fashion by anyone in
earshot of a microphone. If anyone is feeling musical, here is version
I just found where it's easy to hear the words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KebYiX0p8U

I usually sing some for my wife when she finds a spider or other
encroaching creature! ; )

>
> Bill
>>
>> Not a bid deal with most furniture, but can get very expensive to
>> rectify when dealing with large areas, like floors.
>>
>

Swingman wrote:

>
> It really depends upon its ultimate use. If you're going to use it for
> flooring, or built-in's, I always insist on kiln dried wood.
>
> You will appreciate making that distinction after you have a client
> call you back wondering what those "pinholes and little piles of
> sawdust" are doing on their hardwood floors. ;)
>
> (In that particular instance, I had warned them about that possibility
> due to their choice of "reclaimed wood" for their floors, otherwise
> ...)

Very interesting experience Karl. I would not have thought that. I think
back to homes that were built in the 50's and 60's and used woods that were
not kiln dried - for the most part. None of that kind of problem... or at
least none made known. I've heard about the cellular changes that kiln
drying causes, and that those changes can cause problems not found with
sticker dried wood, but I've not heard of your experience.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:

>
> Larva in the wood, that can be dormant for years before becoming
> active, are generally killed by the process of kiln drying, depending
> upon the temperature and duration of the process.
>
> Usually takes about one day at 120F, obviously longer at lower
> temperatures, to kill 100% of any possible infestation. So yes, how
> the process was performed is critical.
>
> This is a particularly important, as the past few years have seen a
> big movement by the touchy/feely crowd to feel better about
> themselves by using "recyled/reclaimed" wood products.
>
> Fine, but, as with many liberal/progressive ideas, they fail to take
> into account unintended consequences, much to their ultimate
> horror/dismay. :)
>
> Not a bid deal with most furniture, but can get very expensive to
> rectify when dealing with large areas, like floors.

Excellent Karl! Thanks for the explanation. I wonder (merely pondering
now...) how much of that is regional and how widespread that is, as a
consideration. After all, we all know that Texas grows some nasty bugs...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]