Hi all,
I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
work.
I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
range I'm limited to?
Thanks,
WayneJ
--
"WayneJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:op.voqs8hlgnatzq9@dellilah...
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
> palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
> orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
> and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
> for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
> work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
> random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
> range I'm limited to?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
>
> --
>
The trouble with a ROS sander is that it will not get into tight corners.
Do you want to hand sand there?
I have never seen a finish sander perform as well as the PC SpeedBloc, the
bell shaped sander. That sander is a well tested design that has been
around for many many years. It IS NOT a toy. I have owned 2 in the last 21
years.
Having said that I now own and exclusively use the Festool Rotex and Festool
finish sander. I use them exclusively because I was/am tired of dealing
with dust. With a vac less than 1% of all dust escapes either of thse
sanders. The Festool finish sander is approximately twice the prce of the
$90 PC SpeedBloc sander. Both Festool Sanders are great but the PC
SpeedBloc will out perform the Festool finish sander if you don't mind the
cloud of dust.
On Jan 5, 5:28=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
> > The trouble with a ROS sander is that it will not get into tight
> > corners. Do you want to hand sand there?
>
> ------------------------
> That's why Fein has triangular sanding pads as part of the multi tool.
>
> Does a great job in the corners.
>
> Add a ROS of choice and you are in business.
>
> Lew
Great minds and all that rot... fools etc.<G>
BUT!... I keep grabbing this thing: Bosch 1297DK. Not as aggressive as
a ROS, but it always sits on my bench, ready with a sheet of fresh 120
and I just love that little thing. (I also own 3 Festool sanders and a
variety of bigger and smaller stuff.)
With the adaptor, it is as dust-free as it gets, considering. 90%?
If I HAD to have just one sander for smaller work, that Bosch would be
it. I just wish it fit my hands like a SpeedBloc, but..*cough, cough*
On Jan 3, 11:22=A0am, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price =
=A0
> range I'm limited to?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
>
To a certain extent they are two different tools, for different
uses. I say that because a ROS can do a good job of sanding. But,
in my opinion, a ROS, with rougher grit sandpaper, is a pretty
effective wood removal tool. Even to the extent of being useful for
shaping rounded or curved shapes. I have seen some guys do wood
sculpting using a ROS with 40-60 grit sandpaper which does some pretty
quick shaping.
For this reason, you have to be a little careful with a ROS to keep
from digging in or unintentionally rounding an edge, even with
smoother grits. If you are looking primarily for finish sanding, I
would start with a palm sander. You probably cannot go wrong with
most of the popular brands you have listed (except Festool, which is a
good machine but out of reach for many). In my shop I have two of the
Dewalt palm sanders for most finish work (I thought one of them was
dying a few years ago; but rumors of its demise.......). I also have
a couple of the Grizzly ROS which I paid around $20 to do the shaping
and curving on projects like rocking horses, etc.
RonB
On Jan 3, 11:56=A0am, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 11:22=A0am, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:> Hi all
>
> > Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the pric=
e =A0
> > range I'm limited to?
SEE. I said what Grover said. I just blab more!!
RonB :^}
On Jan 6, 11:10=A0am, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast
dot net> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>
> > (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
> > the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>
> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? =A0<G>
220 volt 3 phase only and don't forget to run a grounding wire through
your pant legs.
On 1/3/2011 11:22 AM, WayneJ wrote:
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5
> inch random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
> range I'm limited to?
I own a Bosch 5" ROS and it's been a good sander for the price.
I find an actual need for more than one sander for almost all projects.
The Bosch ROS, and a 1/4 sheet sander (Porter Cable), have filled that
bill for a number of years and beaucoup projects.
(Although having now switched to using Festool sanders (3), with the
CT22E vac for virtually dust free sanding, none of the other sanders in
the shop have had any use lately).
If you're budget every grows to consider one of the Festool sanders like
the Rotex RO125 FEQ Dual Mode 5" Sander, it could well be the last
sander you ever need to buy.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Jan 7, 2:41=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 06:53:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> >> I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be ver=
y
> >> handy, too.
>
> > That's my normal method. =A0Not only is the sanding and finishing a lot
> > easier, any glue squeezed out is easily popped off.
>
> > I have trouble even imagining why anyone would finish after assembly.
>
> For me I prefer to finish after assembly except for rare occasions where =
a
> project may have different stain colors. =A0I prefer to not have to worry
> about keeping the finish off of the sopts that will be glued. =A0On the f=
lip
> side of your comment. =A0;-) =A0can you imagine painting a house before t=
he
> walls are erected?
>
>
>
> > Of course, I do need to do the occasional touch up to fix something I
> > scuffed/scratched/dinged during assembly, but if I'm careful I can
> > usually avoid that.
>
> And that is another reason, I don't worry about the scratches, they all g=
et
> taken care of during the final sanding just before the finish is applied.
BUT!.. If you spray your finishes. Blowback is NO fun when doing a
cabinet or drawers...much easier to finish first then assemble with
care. It makes for a much crisper assembly, IMNSHO.
Also, IMNSHO, stains go on much nicer in long swipes than having the
rags/brushes bunch up whenever it hits a shelf, or a back...
They also don't paint cars after they're fully assembled <G> [I know,
stupid comparison.]
On Jan 3, 12:22=A0pm, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get =
a =A0
> palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random=
=A0
> orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work=
=A0
> and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good=
=A0
> for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough =
=A0
> work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either. =
=A0
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for =
=A0
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inc=
h =A0
> random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price =
=A0
> range I'm limited to?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
>
> --
This is just one mans opinion. I have found the ROS rather aggressive
(even when using fine grit abrasive) when compared to an in line
configuration. I suspect most wood workers find use for both. That's
my free advise, guaranteed correct or your money back.
Joe G
WayneJ wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go
> get a palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should
> get a random orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as
> good for finish work and better for coarser things. I question
> whether they are really as good for finish sanding, and I already
> have a straight disk sander for rough work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk
> either. I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc.
> the money for brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet
> palm sander or 5 inch random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the
> price range I'm limited to?
I have both, prefer the palm which happens to be Dewalt. Actually, my
favorite finishing sander for other than small things is a 1/2 sheet Porter
Cable with a felt pad. Nothing beats it
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
> the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FrozenNorth wrote:
>> On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>>
>> With or without the 30 weight oil?
>
> Depends upon the weight of the subject. 30 weight is certainly considered
> a universal solution (if you will...), but some may work well with 5W30,
> while others require 10W30. Some - freaking gear lube! I suppose to some
> degree, it depends on their cold start characteristics...
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
I prefer the ¼ sheet palm electric sander
I have 3 palm sanders. The oldest is a Makita.
I have used them for removing antifouling paint from the bottom of my boat
( 34 feet long) and for woodworking.
I have learned, with time that the quality of the sand paper has a lot to do
with the removal speed and finish.
I buy my sand paper sheet 8"X11" (NO-FIL or OPEN COAT ADALOX) at the auto
parts store. I then cut the sheet in 4 to suit my palm sanders and the
perforated holes are made at installation. The ¼ sheet of sand paper comes
down to about 15 to 20 cents ea. Compare to the ROS sanding disks the cost
is less and I am very happy of the results.
.
Mike Marlow wrote:
> FrozenNorth wrote:
>> On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>>
>> With or without the 30 weight oil?
>
> Depends upon the weight of the subject. 30 weight is certainly
> considered a universal solution (if you will...), but some may work
> well with 5W30, while others require 10W30. Some - freaking gear
> lube! I suppose to some degree, it depends on their cold start
> characteristics...
Real men opt for axle grease :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:09672e90-cf38-4124-98bd-
[email protected]:
>
> Great minds and all that rot... fools etc.<G>
>
> BUT!... I keep grabbing this thing: Bosch 1297DK. Not as aggressive as
> a ROS, but it always sits on my bench, ready with a sheet of fresh 120
> and I just love that little thing. (I also own 3 Festool sanders and a
> variety of bigger and smaller stuff.)
> With the adaptor, it is as dust-free as it gets, considering. 90%?
> If I HAD to have just one sander for smaller work, that Bosch would be
> it. I just wish it fit my hands like a SpeedBloc, but..*cough, cough*
I went out and bought one of these tonight. Thanks for the suggestion,
Robatoy. There's very little vibration at my hand (which has been one of
my biggest problems with sanders) and the dust collection is pretty good.
I used to use a B&D Mouse (no dust collection) and expected everything to
be dusty when I got done.
Puckdropper
"WayneJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:op.vox88hgjnatzq9@dellilah...
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:54:02 -0800, Larry Jaques
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I'm just curious, Wayne, but what does the orbital do better for you
>> than a ROS would? If it's just to do corners, you may already have a
>> finish sander for that: HF Multifunction tool. If not, get one.
>> They're really, really handy. You simply must have one in your tool
>> stable before you need it, and once you have one, you'll find tons
>> more things to use it on.
>
> At this time I don't have a sander suitable for finish work, and have a
> couple of honey-do projects that I need one for. After looking at all the
> replies to my original question, I decided that having both sanders would
> be the best plan, but right now I can buy only one.
>
> The random orbital is more aggressive and could be a little easier for me
> to accidentally cause a problem. Also a little more difficult to work with
> in tight areas. The multifunction tool and a random orbital might well be
> a very good choice for the future, but for my present situation, limited
> to buying a single tool at this time, the palm sander seems better.
>
> The random orbital sander and a multifunction tool are on the list for
> future purchase, along with any number of other tools, but for now will
> have to wait.
>
> WayneJ
Good choice, not to mention that the operating cost of the palm sander is
much less.
A sanding disk for a ROS costs about 0.60 plus cents each. A 1/4 sheet of
sand paper cost
around 0.20 cents each when you cut a sheet in four.. Try using a P80 or
P100 No-Fil Adalox with a good quality palm sander.
you will see how fast it can remove material.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c5761108-9005-48b4-9c37-34a05294ada6@u25g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 7, 1:27 pm, "Denis M" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Try using a P80 or
> P100 No-Fil Adalox with a good quality palm sander.
> you will see how fast it can remove material.
For some silly reason, and I have observed this before (even mentioned
it in here, I think) 120 cuts better than either 80 or 100.. on wood
that is... that is using off-the shelf Norton. Certainly 80 grit just
makes a mess of scratches which you have to get to the bottom of,
using 120...might as well go 120 from the beginning, I figgur.
YMMV or YKMV if Canuckistani.
Yes, P80 or P100 makes a mess of scratches. I only use it
for fast removal. Not to mention that a carbide scrapper does a
good job at removing coatings
With oak, ash, maple or pine freshly out of the surface planer
I adjust the grit as required. At the end I finish with P220.
Before applying a coasting I like to do hand sanding.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>
>>>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>>>> the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>>>
>>> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanders/other-accessories/hsk80x133-rectangular-sanding-block-hard-495967.html
>>
>
> A Festool sanding block? Probably cost at least $100.
>
Beat me too it.
That is what I was going to say.
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> I am completely in that camp and it was reinforced this very week.
> I had a bunch of leftover paper, some from a big box and some from
> Harbor Freight.
> The HF stuff practically fills up and clogs in one pass. Even the big
> box stuff I bought in sheets a while back seems to take longer to
> fill, but still clogs and I need to vac it out or toss it because it
> just doesn't cut any more.
>
> When I get the premium stuff, it just seems cut better and last
> longer.
> It will fill up, but then keep cutting and push the cut dust out of
> the
> way. I get at least 30:1 life over the HF stuff and probably 5:1 over
> the regular big box stuff.
>
> I think sandpaper technology has improved even in the past few years,
> as I notice much better performance from the premium paper I recently
> bought.
>
>
I agree that sand paper is getting better. The difference between the
included 220 grit Mouse sand paper (about 10 years old) and the 220 grit
3M purple paper was dramatic. I had to change the included paper about
once per side of a book shelf, and just about finished the rest with a
single sheet of the 3M. I haven't tried the Norton yet.
I need to get some sandpaper for my new sander. The Lowes Gator paper
isn't worth taking it off the shelf. Time to put another sheet on the
sander... To be honest, I wasn't impressed with the included sheet of
Bosch paper either.
Puckdropper
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 1/9/11 1:12 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> I need to get some sandpaper for my new sander. The Lowes Gator
>> paper isn't worth taking it off the shelf.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
> Really? I picked up some of their new "Ultra Power" and was this is
> what I was braggin on. Have you used this new stuff?
> <http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/gator-ultra-power-premium-s
> eries-sandpaper-review/>
>
> If the 3M Purple stuff is even that much better than the Gator Ultra,
> then I can't want to try it.
>
It was just the standard stuff. I have not tried the Ultra Power version.
Puckdropper
So Leon,
I went looking at the festool online.
I don't see where they sell an adapter to a vac hose. I only see dust
bags accys. If I buy a Festool RTS 400 EQ, will I need to buy something
else to attach it to my shop vac hose?
On 1/5/2011 3:17 PM, Leon wrote:
> "WayneJ"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:op.voqs8hlgnatzq9@dellilah...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
>> palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
>> orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
>> and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
>> for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
>> work.
>>
>> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
>> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
>> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
>> random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>>
>> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
>> range I'm limited to?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> WayneJ
>>
>> --
>>
>
> The trouble with a ROS sander is that it will not get into tight corners.
> Do you want to hand sand there?
>
> I have never seen a finish sander perform as well as the PC SpeedBloc, the
> bell shaped sander. That sander is a well tested design that has been
> around for many many years. It IS NOT a toy. I have owned 2 in the last 21
> years.
>
> Having said that I now own and exclusively use the Festool Rotex and Festool
> finish sander. I use them exclusively because I was/am tired of dealing
> with dust. With a vac less than 1% of all dust escapes either of thse
> sanders. The Festool finish sander is approximately twice the prce of the
> $90 PC SpeedBloc sander. Both Festool Sanders are great but the PC
> SpeedBloc will out perform the Festool finish sander if you don't mind the
> cloud of dust.
>
>
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>> the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>
> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
>
>
http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanders/other-accessories/hsk80x133-rectangular-sanding-block-hard-495967.html
Remeber... it is "tongue in groove cedar" Not with an "s" as in "seater"
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Close.
I believe a tongue is one of the most important tools while inspecting for
sex.
I have yet to use on a piece of furniture for the last inspection pass,
however. ;-)
--
Jim in NC
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote
> I use every tool that can make my work easier, but whether it's painting a
> car, painting a piece of cherry, staining a piece of pine, or pouring on a
> quart of used 30 weight engine oil, it's that last hand to product contact
> that makes sure everything is going to look right. I believe the same
> statements could be made about sex...
On Jan 6, 12:36=A0pm, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:07:30 -0800, Robatoy <[email protected]> =A0
> wrote:
>
> > Great minds and all that rot... fools etc.<G>
>
> > BUT!... I keep grabbing this thing: Bosch 1297DK. Not as aggressive as
> > a ROS, but it always sits on my bench, ready with a sheet of fresh 120
> > and I just love that little thing. (I also own 3 Festool sanders and a
> > variety of bigger and smaller stuff.)
> > With the adaptor, it is as dust-free as it gets, considering. 90%?
> > If I HAD to have just one sander for smaller work, that Bosch would be
> > it. I just wish it fit my hands like a SpeedBloc, but..*cough, cough*
>
> I've pretty much decided that a 1/4 sheet palm sander is what I will buy.=
=A0
> The Bosch is one I am considering, but I have seen several reports of =A0
> problems with the sandpaper clamps. Mainly that the rubber on the front =
=A0
> clamp fails and will no longer grip the paper.
>
> Have you seen any problems like this with your Bosch?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
No I haven't. In all fairness, I don't do a lot of sanding although I
would think that if those rubber grippers were going to fail, they
would have by now. They are very easy to take off and put on.. just
tried that. No worries.
On Jan 3, 12:22=A0pm, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get =
a =A0
> palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random=
=A0
> orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work=
=A0
> and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good=
=A0
> for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough =
=A0
> work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either. =
=A0
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for =
=A0
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inc=
h =A0
> random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price =
=A0
> range I'm limited to?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
>
> --
I personally like the ROS best. I have 2 of the Dewally's. One that
stays connected to the shop vac all the time w/a router variable speed
unit on it and one that is VS that I use for the road or in shop I use
it to rough sand. I used a Makita ROS on site once that was a friend
of mine's and it was a lot more aggressive that mine. I find the
finishing sanders numb my hands faster than they sand but when I used
them, they were older models so the new ones might be better.
RP
WayneJ wrote:
>
> I've pretty much decided that a 1/4 sheet palm sander is what I will
> buy. The Bosch is one I am considering, but I have seen several
> reports of problems with the sandpaper clamps. Mainly that the rubber
> on the front clamp fails and will no longer grip the paper.
>
Consider both. Each one has its own application. Neither will do all of
the job the way that the other will.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 12:16:45 -0500, FrozenNorth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>
>With or without the 30 weight oil?
CRISCO, you fuels! And give her the ring out of the Cracker Back Jox
(on easy monthly payments, just sign here).
--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 02:06:05 -0500, "Morgans"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I use every tool that can make my work easier, but whether it's painting a
>> car, painting a piece of cherry, staining a piece of pine, or pouring on a
>> quart of used 30 weight engine oil, it's that last hand to product contact
>> that makes sure everything is going to look right. I believe the same
>> statements could be made about sex...
>
> Close.
>
>I believe a tongue is one of the most important tools while inspecting for
>sex.
It would be interesting to see your face when you found yourself
licking the wrong sex...
--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan
On Jan 8, 9:51=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/8/11 6:57 PM, CW wrote:
>
> >> Yes. =A0They need to develop a Velcro attaching system for palm sander=
s.
>
> >> Thank you for following along. =A0 :-)
>
> > I wouldn't buy it. My palm sander has the wire paper retainers and it t=
akes
> > me less than 30 seconds to change paper. The advantages are that paper =
is
> > cheaper, reduced paper inventory as the sheets can be used for multiple
> > things and better variety of available paper.
>
> Takes me less than two to change the velcro sheets.
> When I'm in that zone, like a machine, it's frustrating to have to take
> even 30 seconds to change one out. I'm impressed that you can cut those
> sheets and punch out the dust port holes in that time, too. =A0:-)
>
> The better variety argument doesn't stand as you can find those disks on
> the internet at any grit you'd need. =A0And I'm not concerned with reduce=
d
> inventory nor price. =A0Even expensive sandpaper isn't, in the big pictur=
e.
> But that's not and issue given said websites.
>
> The more I do this, the more I find I prefer things that help me do more
> work more efficiently, once I am working. To each his own.
>
I don't know how many times I have done the math but expensive
sandpaper is cheaper than cheap stuff. <G>
So is the method of attaching the paper. Time is money.
...and 20 bucks worth of paper on a 3000 dollar countertop is totally
and completely meaningless.
On Sat, 8 Jan 2011 19:17:52 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I don't know how many times I have done the math but expensive
>sandpaper is cheaper than cheap stuff. <G>
Once wasn't enough, eh?
>So is the method of attaching the paper. Time is money.
>...and 20 bucks worth of paper on a 3000 dollar countertop is totally
>and completely meaningless.
Yeah, I've been amazed at how long a $1 5" 5-hole velcro Norton will
last compared to a $0.40 6" PSA from HF. It's at least 6x.
BTW, Toy, I thought you might roll your own with freeze-dried banana
leaves, sticky drool from the inscrutable Quebecois, and sand from the
St. Lawrence beaches. Am I wrong?
<Nomex=ON>
--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan
WayneJ <[email protected]> writes:
>Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the advice. I'm still a little
>unsure of which type to buy since there was some disagreement about which
>is best for finishing work. My first need is for a couple of honey do
>projects, especially a table.
>
>Most likely I'll go for the palm sander unless I hear more to change my
>mind.
I've found my PC 7336 ROS to be invaluable, and I don't find it too
aggressive with 220 or 320 grit discs (the variable speed helps).
I don't use a palm sander at all,
but do swear by a couple of shopmade cork-padded doug-fir hand blocks.
scott
"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So Leon,
>
> I went looking at the festool online.
> I don't see where they sell an adapter to a vac hose. I only see dust bags
> accys. If I buy a Festool RTS 400 EQ, will I need to buy something else to
> attach it to my shop vac hose?
>>
IIRC the Festool uses a 1" OD hose that fit over the sander manifold.
Don't let that confuse you. ;~) If I had to listen to a typical shop vac I
might consider a mask and not use the vac. I do use the Festool shop vac
which is very quiet, more quiet than the sander in fact. there are lots of
adapters that would probably get you going.
I do use a Fein adapter to adapt my Festool vac hose to my Kreg PH jig. If
you have a Woodcraft or Rockler, or Festool dealer near by take your hose
into he store and perhaps they will have a solution. I would not think that
a 2" hose running up to the sander would be very easy to use, FWTIW.
"WayneJ" wrote in message news:op.voqs8hlgnatzq9@dellilah...
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
> range I'm limited to?
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-ROS20VSK-120-Volt-Variable-Random/dp/B0018Z8D64/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294079116&sr=8-1
I got one of these last year and was very pleased not only with its
performance but the effectiveness of dust collection. With a shop-vac hose
attached to the dust port almost no dust is left behind, I was surprised but
happy how well that worked. I have a mouse sander but the only time it gets
used now is when I need to get into a corner.
On 1/5/2011 4:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> The trouble with a ROS sander is that it will not get into tight
>> corners. Do you want to hand sand there?
> ------------------------
> That's why Fein has triangular sanding pads as part of the multi tool.
>
> Does a great job in the corners.
>
> Add a ROS of choice and you are in business.
IME, and even with the same, or higher grit paper, the surface finish
with the Fein, in corners where it's used, does not match the finish
done with a ROS on the rest of the piece.
This can be particularly glaring/evident when using a light stain and
it's why I make the last few grit passes with a finish sander that will
sand into corners, instead of using the Fein.
(That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, breaking
edges as I go. To me, that is the only satisfying part of the entire
sanding process, and allows me time to inspect and rectify any problems
with details).
Gotta get enjoyment out of sanding where you can ... ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> The trouble with a ROS sander is that it will not get into tight corners.
>> Do you want to hand sand there?
> ------------------------
> That's why Fein has triangular sanding pads as part of the multi tool.
>
> Does a great job in the corners.
>
> Add a ROS of choice and you are in business.
>
> Lew
>
>
I have a PC right angle ROS the Speed Bloc, the Festool Rotex and finish
sander, and the Fein multimaster. With all that, I dont often use the Fein
to do 50-100+ inside corners on a project, it is great for the tight spots
but if the finish sander will get in there it is the only way to go if time
means anything to you.
If you are working on wide open spaces the ROS/Fein would be the better
choice.
In article <e47794ad-0560-4691-884d-2905050aead3
@g25g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Jan 3, 12:22 pm, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
> > palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
> > orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
> > and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
> > for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
> > work.
> >
> > I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
> > I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
> > brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
> > random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
> >
> > Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
> > range I'm limited to?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > WayneJ
> >
> > --
>
> Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
> hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
> sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
> finest I've seen for ROS.
Klingspor has 'em up to 1500, Mirka to 4000, Micro-Mesh to 12,000. If
you need more than 12,000 then it's time to slap on a foam pad and break
out the polishing compound.
> Fast way to a flawless, ready to finish surface with a palm
> sander is to go up to 320, then finish by hand, straight strokes,
> with 220 to remove the swirl marks.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On 1/7/11 11:17 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
> > Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
> > hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
> > sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
> > finest I've seen for ROS.
> >
>
> Which brings up the question... why don't they have a Velcro version or
> attachment for ROS? I looked at Lowes and HD yesterday and every palm
> sander still has that horrible metal wire spring/clip system to attach
> the paper. The same mechanism that my 20 year old Skil has.
>
> Are you kidding me? This is the best they can come up with. It is THE
> MOST horribly awkward and inconvenient way to attach and remove sandpaper.
>
> I'd rather find an internet source for Velcro disks than deal with that
> horrible mechanism.
Don't you mean for a palm sander? Every ROS I have seen in the past 10
years or so has a velcro base.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On 1/8/11 10:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> > Yeah, I've been amazed at how long a $1 5" 5-hole velcro Norton will
> > last compared to a $0.40 6" PSA from HF. It's at least 6x.
> >
>
> Our local HF has the Norton discs...... for more than Lowes and HD
> charge. :-)
FWIW, I couldn't find any Norton disks at the local Lowes the last time
I went. I took what they had, "Gator Power" and, well, if that gator
had any power to begin with he lost it when they turned him into
sandpaper. Further, the crap costs more than Home Depot gets for Norton
or Coastal gets for Bosch.
?
"WayneJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:op.voqs8hlgnatzq9@dellilah...
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
> palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
> orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
> and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
> for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
> work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
> random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
> range I'm limited to?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
>
> --
>
I had a palm sander for years and finally got a ROS. I now have two ROS and
the palm hit the trash, never to be replaced. I have a DeWalt and PC. Once
has course grit, the other fine.
On Jan 6, 12:40=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> FrozenNorth wrote:
> > On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> >> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>
> > With or without the 30 weight oil?
>
> Depends upon the weight of the subject. =A030 weight is certainly conside=
red a
> universal solution (if you will...), but some may work well with 5W30, wh=
ile
> others require 10W30. =A0Some - freaking gear lube! =A0I suppose to some =
degree,
> it depends on their cold start characteristics...
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
Try to avoid synthetics...as well as synthetic oil.
Robatoy wrote:
> On Jan 6, 12:40 pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>> On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>
>>> With or without the 30 weight oil?
>>
>> Depends upon the weight of the subject. 30 weight is certainly
>> considered a universal solution (if you will...), but some may work
>> well with 5W30, while others require 10W30. Some - freaking gear
>> lube! I suppose to some degree, it depends on their cold start
>> characteristics...
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Mike-
>> [email protected]
>
> Try to avoid synthetics...as well as synthetic oil.
Correct! The extended mileage characteristics of synthetic can come back to
haunt you. You may wish for the days of a more frequent oil change...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 1/8/11 5:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>>>
>>> On 1/7/11 11:17 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>>>> Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
>>>> hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
>>>> sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
>>>> finest I've seen for ROS.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which brings up the question... why don't they have a Velcro version or
>>> attachment for ROS? I looked at Lowes and HD yesterday and every palm
>>> sander still has that horrible metal wire spring/clip system to attach
>>> the paper. The same mechanism that my 20 year old Skil has.
>>>
>>> Are you kidding me? This is the best they can come up with. It is THE
>>> MOST horribly awkward and inconvenient way to attach and remove
>>> sandpaper.
>>>
>>> I'd rather find an internet source for Velcro disks than deal with that
>>> horrible mechanism.
>>
>> Don't you mean for a palm sander? Every ROS I have seen in the past 10
>> years or so has a velcro base.
>>
>
> Yes. They need to develop a Velcro attaching system for palm sanders.
>
> Thank you for following along. :-)
>
>
I wouldn't buy it. My palm sander has the wire paper retainers and it takes
me less than 30 seconds to change paper. The advantages are that paper is
cheaper, reduced paper inventory as the sheets can be used for multiple
things and better variety of available paper.
Denis M wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>> On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>>>
>>> With or without the 30 weight oil?
>>
>> Depends upon the weight of the subject. 30 weight is certainly
>> considered a universal solution (if you will...), but some may work
>> well with 5W30, while others require 10W30. Some - freaking gear
>> lube! I suppose to some degree, it depends on their cold start
>> characteristics... --
>>
>> -Mike-
>> [email protected]
>
> I prefer the ¼ sheet palm electric sander
>
> I have 3 palm sanders. The oldest is a Makita.
>
> I have used them for removing antifouling paint from the bottom of my
> boat ( 34 feet long) and for woodworking.
>
> I have learned, with time that the quality of the sand paper has a
> lot to do with the removal speed and finish.
>
> I buy my sand paper sheet 8"X11" (NO-FIL or OPEN COAT ADALOX) at the
> auto parts store. I then cut the sheet in 4 to suit my palm sanders
> and the perforated holes are made at installation. The ¼ sheet of
> sand paper comes down to about 15 to 20 cents ea. Compare to the ROS
> sanding disks the cost is less and I am very happy of the results.
>
> .
Wait a minute - what does this have to do with 30 weight engine oil and sex?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:06:26 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> IME, and even with the same, or higher grit paper, the surface finish
>> with the Fein, in corners where it's used, does not match the finish
>> done with a ROS on the rest of the piece.
>>
>> This can be particularly glaring/evident when using a light stain and
>> it's why I make the last few grit passes with a finish sander that
>> will sand into corners, instead of using the Fein.
>>
>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand
>> with the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project,
>> breaking edges as I go. To me, that is the only satisfying part of
>> the entire sanding process, and allows me time to inspect and
>> rectify any problems with details).
>>
>> Gotta get enjoyment out of sanding where you can ... ;)
>
> Indeed. A final hand sanding is a must, bringing you closer to the
> wood, looking and feeling for blems, splinters, and sharp edges.
>
> Do you wipe the entire project down with lacquer or paint thinner to
> check for blems and degrease it? It can be a godsend.
>
> I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be
> very handy, too.
Echo that. It's not just a woodworking thing - it works in all kinds of
finishing efforts. Nothing beats that final hands-on-the-project
connection. I use every tool that can make my work easier, but whether it's
painting a car, painting a piece of cherry, staining a piece of pine, or
pouring on a quart of used 30 weight engine oil, it's that last hand to
product contact that makes sure everything is going to look right. I
believe the same statements could be made about sex...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
WayneJ wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:42:15 -0800, Mike Marlow
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Consider both. Each one has its own application. Neither will do
>> all of the job the way that the other will.
>>
>
> I agree, Mike both would be best and that is likely what I'll do in
> the future. At this time I can only buy one and the palm sander looks
> to be better for my immediate needs.
>
FWIW - that's the route I took. Ended up with one palm sander (never
regretted that purchase) and a couple of random orbitals. Left foot in
front of the right, until we end up with everything we want.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 10:29:16 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 11:10 am, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast
>dot net> wrote:
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>
>>
>> > (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>> > the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>>
>> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
>
>220 volt 3 phase only and don't forget to run a grounding wire through
>your pant legs.
Wrapped around your main grounding rod and the boys, I expect?
--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:37:07 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in
>>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>>>>> the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>>>>
>>>> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanders/other-accessories/hsk80x133-rectangular-sanding-block-hard-495967.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> A Festool sanding block? Probably cost at least $100.
>
>IIRC $25
Per month on a -how- many year loan?
--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge
On Jan 7, 1:27=A0pm, "Denis M" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Try using a P80 or
> P100 No-Fil Adalox with a good quality =A0palm sander.
> you will see how fast it can remove material.
For some silly reason, and I have observed this before (even mentioned
it in here, I think) 120 cuts better than either 80 or 100.. on wood
that is... that is using off-the shelf Norton. Certainly 80 grit just
makes a mess of scratches which you have to get to the bottom of,
using 120...might as well go 120 from the beginning, I figgur.
YMMV or YKMV if Canuckistani.
On Jan 6, 11:48=A0pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:09672e90-cf38-4124-98bd-
> [email protected]:
>
>
>
> > Great minds and all that rot... fools etc.<G>
>
> > BUT!... I keep grabbing this thing: Bosch 1297DK. Not as aggressive as
> > a ROS, but it always sits on my bench, ready with a sheet of fresh 120
> > and I just love that little thing. (I also own 3 Festool sanders and a
> > variety of bigger and smaller stuff.)
> > With the adaptor, it is as dust-free as it gets, considering. 90%?
> > If I HAD to have just one sander for smaller work, that Bosch would be
> > it. I just wish it fit my hands like a SpeedBloc, but..*cough, cough*
>
> I went out and bought one of these tonight. =A0Thanks for the suggestion,
> Robatoy. =A0There's very little vibration at my hand (which has been one =
of
> my biggest problems with sanders) and the dust collection is pretty good.=
=A0
> I used to use a B&D Mouse (no dust collection) and expected everything to
> be dusty when I got done.
>
> Puckdropper
I bought mine at Lowe's in Port Huron MI for just 49.00 USD. I did
wait a long time for that adaptor though.
Glad you like it.
I bought a bundle of hole punches at the local HF equivalent and stuck
the (IIRC 7/16"?) in my drill press. I then used a supplied pattern
piece of sandpaper and, with the DP running, I punched a whole lot of
sheets, 4 at the time and made a supply of them. I don't like the
supplied punch that much, although it works fine.
FrozenNorth wrote:
> On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>
> With or without the 30 weight oil?
Depends upon the weight of the subject. 30 weight is certainly considered a
universal solution (if you will...), but some may work well with 5W30, while
others require 10W30. Some - freaking gear lube! I suppose to some degree,
it depends on their cold start characteristics...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:41:24 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 06:53:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be very
>>> handy, too.
>>
>> That's my normal method. Not only is the sanding and finishing a lot
>> easier, any glue squeezed out is easily popped off.
>>
>> I have trouble even imagining why anyone would finish after assembly.
>
>For me I prefer to finish after assembly except for rare occasions where a
>project may have different stain colors. I prefer to not have to worry
>about keeping the finish off of the sopts that will be glued.
Finish before machining, too, Big L.
>On the flip
>side of your comment. ;-) can you imagine painting a house before the
>walls are erected?
Sure, why not? Do all the siding and trimwork before hanging. Much
easier.
--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge
On Jan 3, 12:22=A0pm, WayneJ <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get =
a =A0
> palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random=
=A0
> orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work=
=A0
> and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good=
=A0
> for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough =
=A0
> work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either. =
=A0
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for =
=A0
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inc=
h =A0
> random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price =
=A0
> range I'm limited to?
>
> Thanks,
> WayneJ
>
> --
Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
finest I've seen for ROS.
Fast way to a flawless, ready to finish surface with a palm
sander is to go up to 320, then finish by hand, straight strokes,
with 220 to remove the swirl marks.
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 06:53:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be very
>> handy, too.
>
> That's my normal method. Not only is the sanding and finishing a lot
> easier, any glue squeezed out is easily popped off.
>
> I have trouble even imagining why anyone would finish after assembly.
For me I prefer to finish after assembly except for rare occasions where a
project may have different stain colors. I prefer to not have to worry
about keeping the finish off of the sopts that will be glued. On the flip
side of your comment. ;-) can you imagine painting a house before the
walls are erected?
>
> Of course, I do need to do the occasional touch up to fix something I
> scuffed/scratched/dinged during assembly, but if I'm careful I can
> usually avoid that.
And that is another reason, I don't worry about the scratches, they all get
taken care of during the final sanding just before the finish is applied.
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 09:22:55 -0800, WayneJ <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
>palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
>orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
>and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
>for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
>work.
I wholeheartedly agree with your friends. _Finish_ sanding requires a
ROS unless you're painting your work.
>I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
>I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
>brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
>random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
If you get a palm sander, just buy a cheapie for rough work. Here ya
go, both sanders for under $30 total, both on sale now:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-sheet-orbital-hand-sander-40070.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-random-orbital-palm-sander-93431.html
Add a handful of sandpaper packets and you're still just under the
domestic sander price.
>Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
>range I'm limited to?
http://www.mytoolstore.com/compare/cpsand1.html Comparison sheet.
PM best ROS article http://tinyurl.com/3772v4p
I have the $25 HF 5" ROS and like it and am satisfied with it. I'll
use a cabinet scraper as frequently as a sander, though. I think I
have about 25 troublefree hours on the HF now. Whenever I buy a new
tool, I let it run for about five minutes before it ever sees work. I
lost a brand new chop saw by not doing that one time. (When new
brushes are needed to carry a lot of amps from the start, proper brush
seating to the armature is mandatory or they develop lots of heat very
quickly, melting one or both.)
Look at the Makita BO5031K, the DeWalt D26451K, and the Bosch ROS20VSK
random orbitals. The Bosches are said to be smoother than the
Festeringtools.
I've found that a 1/4 sheet orbital palm sander takes off more wood in
the same time than a random with the same grit paper. I found Ron and
Joe's comments very unusual since they're the exact opposite of my
experience. I find it much easier to control the ROS for delicate
sanding work. (But I'm no expert, but I recently learned to let the
tool do the work, to change paper more often, and I finally stopped
leaning on my sanders.) A ROS leaves much smoother faces than do
orbital palms, especially at grain reversals and changes, like cabinet
door frames.
P.S: Get a cabinet scraper or two and try them INSTEAD of sanding some
time. You will be entirely amazed, I guarantee.
--
You do not need a parachute to skydive.
You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
WayneJ wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get
> a palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a
> random orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for
> finish work and better for coarser things. I question whether they are
> really as good for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk
> sander for rough work.
>
> I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
> I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
> brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5
> inch random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
> Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
> range I'm limited to?
...
I guess I'd start w/ "finishing what"?
That said, I've used the PC 5" ROS for years altho I've not bought a new
one in nearly 10 now, I still have about 3 or 4. We used them on the
barn exterior paint prep as w/ the 3" shaped T&G siding it requires a
smaller and somewhat flexible pad to have any chance of getting in the
coves. The will stand up to quite a lot of abuse (or at least would)
although the later ones aren't quite as robust as the earliest it seems.
I prefer the form factor of the PC over the DeWalt and various others
but that's a personal preference undoubtedly; I'd suggest trying them
all on for size and heft before the purchase to see which suits your
hands; I'm fairly small, bigger handed-guys might like something else
better.
The one primary complaint I have w/ the newer ones is the "brake" they
added (and I presume everybody else has one now as well). It does keep
the pad from free-running when lifted but is nothing but an o-ring
around a fixed stud and the driven shaft. Hence the braking action is
continuous and the friction builds a lot of heat when used for long
periods. This is both uncomfortable and leads to early bearing
failures. If one only uses it for short intervals at a time, this might
not be such a big deal but as noted, firstest thing I do w/ a new one is
to take the pad off and remove the o-ring.
I also am not found of the change from 5- to 8-hole pads that seems to
be all that is available any more...but, that's a little more of a nit.
Again, depending on what your work is primarily, but for most flat
surface work and most cabinet/casework, a ROS will do fine enough
sanding for finishing with proper paper faster than inline and I've
never found the orbital markings to be discernible once get to the finer
grits so it has never been an issue for me...
As another said,
$0.02, imo, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...
--
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 09:22:55 -0800, WayneJ wrote:
> I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get
> a palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a
> random orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for
> finish work and better for coarser things.
I think it's a matter of opinion. I've got a Bosch ROS that I've had for
years. I don't have a palm sander. With 220 or 320 grit on the Bosch it
finishes well enough for me. If I want a smoother finish I go to a hand
plane.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:06:26 -0600, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> IME, and even with the same, or higher grit paper, the surface finish
>>> with the Fein, in corners where it's used, does not match the finish
>>> done with a ROS on the rest of the piece.
>>>
>>> This can be particularly glaring/evident when using a light stain and
>>> it's why I make the last few grit passes with a finish sander that
>>> will sand into corners, instead of using the Fein.
>>>
>>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand
>>> with the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project,
>>> breaking edges as I go. To me, that is the only satisfying part of
>>> the entire sanding process, and allows me time to inspect and
>>> rectify any problems with details).
>>>
>>> Gotta get enjoyment out of sanding where you can ... ;)
>>
>> Indeed. A final hand sanding is a must, bringing you closer to the
>> wood, looking and feeling for blems, splinters, and sharp edges.
>>
>> Do you wipe the entire project down with lacquer or paint thinner to
>> check for blems and degrease it? It can be a godsend.
>>
>> I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be
>> very handy, too.
>
> Echo that. It's not just a woodworking thing - it works in all kinds of
> finishing efforts. Nothing beats that final hands-on-the-project
> connection. I use every tool that can make my work easier, but whether it's
> painting a car, painting a piece of cherry, staining a piece of pine, or
> pouring on a quart of used 30 weight engine oil, it's that last hand to
> product contact that makes sure everything is going to look right.
>
>I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>
With or without the 30 weight oil?
--
Froz...
The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 06:53:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
> I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be very
> handy, too.
That's my normal method. Not only is the sanding and finishing a lot
easier, any glue squeezed out is easily popped off.
I have trouble even imagining why anyone would finish after assembly.
Of course, I do need to do the occasional touch up to fix something I
scuffed/scratched/dinged during assembly, but if I'm careful I can
usually avoid that.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 1/06/11 2:37 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> FrozenNorth wrote:
>>> On 1/06/11 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the same statements could be made about sex...
>>>>
>>> With or without the 30 weight oil?
>>
>> Depends upon the weight of the subject. 30 weight is certainly
>> considered a universal solution (if you will...), but some may work
>> well with 5W30, while others require 10W30. Some - freaking gear
>> lube! I suppose to some degree, it depends on their cold start
>> characteristics...
>
> Real men opt for axle grease :)
>
Nothing like a good lube job. :-)
--
Froz...
The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
On 1/7/11 11:17 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
> Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
> hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
> sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
> finest I've seen for ROS.
>
Which brings up the question... why don't they have a Velcro version or
attachment for ROS? I looked at Lowes and HD yesterday and every palm
sander still has that horrible metal wire spring/clip system to attach
the paper. The same mechanism that my 20 year old Skil has.
Are you kidding me? This is the best they can come up with. It is THE
MOST horribly awkward and inconvenient way to attach and remove sandpaper.
I'd rather find an internet source for Velcro disks than deal with that
horrible mechanism.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/8/2011 12:14 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/7/11 11:17 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>> Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
>> hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
>> sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
>> finest I've seen for ROS.
>>
>
> Which brings up the question... why don't they have a Velcro version or
> attachment for ROS? I looked at Lowes and HD yesterday and every palm
> sander still has that horrible metal wire spring/clip system to attach
> the paper. The same mechanism that my 20 year old Skil has.
>
> Are you kidding me? This is the best they can come up with. It is THE
> MOST horribly awkward and inconvenient way to attach and remove sandpaper.
>
> I'd rather find an internet source for Velcro disks than deal with that
> horrible mechanism.
Yeah, I had an old Makita like that. Sold it on eBay and was glad to see it
go. I'd never buy another of that same style.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 1/8/11 5:14 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Klingspor has 'em up to 1500, Mirka to 4000, Micro-Mesh to 12,000.
> If you need more than 12,000 then it's time to slap on a foam pad and
> break out the polishing compound.
>
Thank you.
I was hoping whoever brought up that website, before, talking about
the cheap, bulk sandpaper discs would bring it up again in this thread.
:-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/8/11 5:18 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 1/7/11 11:17 PM, Father Haskell wrote:
>>> Palm sanders aren't limited to the few grits available in
>>> hook and loop discs. Anything is available for quarter
>>> sheet sanders, up to and beyond 2000 grit. 320 is the
>>> finest I've seen for ROS.
>>>
>>
>> Which brings up the question... why don't they have a Velcro version or
>> attachment for ROS? I looked at Lowes and HD yesterday and every palm
>> sander still has that horrible metal wire spring/clip system to attach
>> the paper. The same mechanism that my 20 year old Skil has.
>>
>> Are you kidding me? This is the best they can come up with. It is THE
>> MOST horribly awkward and inconvenient way to attach and remove sandpaper.
>>
>> I'd rather find an internet source for Velcro disks than deal with that
>> horrible mechanism.
>
> Don't you mean for a palm sander? Every ROS I have seen in the past 10
> years or so has a velcro base.
>
Yes. They need to develop a Velcro attaching system for palm sanders.
Thank you for following along. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/8/11 6:57 PM, CW wrote:
>> Yes. They need to develop a Velcro attaching system for palm sanders.
>>
>> Thank you for following along. :-)
>>
>>
> I wouldn't buy it. My palm sander has the wire paper retainers and it takes
> me less than 30 seconds to change paper. The advantages are that paper is
> cheaper, reduced paper inventory as the sheets can be used for multiple
> things and better variety of available paper.
>
Takes me less than two to change the velcro sheets.
When I'm in that zone, like a machine, it's frustrating to have to take
even 30 seconds to change one out. I'm impressed that you can cut those
sheets and punch out the dust port holes in that time, too. :-)
The better variety argument doesn't stand as you can find those disks on
the internet at any grit you'd need. And I'm not concerned with reduced
inventory nor price. Even expensive sandpaper isn't, in the big picture.
But that's not and issue given said websites.
The more I do this, the more I find I prefer things that help me do more
work more efficiently, once I am working. To each his own.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/8/11 9:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jan 8, 9:51 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>> The more I do this, the more I find I prefer things that help me do
>> more work more efficiently, once I am working. To each his own.
>>
>
> I don't know how many times I have done the math but expensive
> sandpaper is cheaper than cheap stuff.<G> So is the method of
> attaching the paper. Time is money. ...and 20 bucks worth of paper on
> a 3000 dollar countertop is totally and completely meaningless.
>
I am completely in that camp and it was reinforced this very week.
I had a bunch of leftover paper, some from a big box and some from
Harbor Freight.
The HF stuff practically fills up and clogs in one pass. Even the big
box stuff I bought in sheets a while back seems to take longer to fill,
but still clogs and I need to vac it out or toss it because it just
doesn't cut any more.
When I get the premium stuff, it just seems cut better and last longer.
It will fill up, but then keep cutting and push the cut dust out of the
way. I get at least 30:1 life over the HF stuff and probably 5:1 over
the regular big box stuff.
I think sandpaper technology has improved even in the past few years, as
I notice much better performance from the premium paper I recently bought.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/8/11 10:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Yeah, I've been amazed at how long a $1 5" 5-hole velcro Norton will
> last compared to a $0.40 6" PSA from HF. It's at least 6x.
>
Our local HF has the Norton discs...... for more than Lowes and HD
charge. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/9/11 1:12 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> I need to get some sandpaper for my new sander. The Lowes Gator paper
> isn't worth taking it off the shelf.
>
> Puckdropper
Really? I picked up some of their new "Ultra Power" and was this is
what I was braggin on. Have you used this new stuff?
<http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/gator-ultra-power-premium-series-sandpaper-review/>
If the 3M Purple stuff is even that much better than the Gator Ultra,
then I can't want to try it.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:06:26 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/5/2011 4:28 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>> The trouble with a ROS sander is that it will not get into tight
>>> corners. Do you want to hand sand there?
>> ------------------------
>> That's why Fein has triangular sanding pads as part of the multi tool.
>>
>> Does a great job in the corners.
>>
>> Add a ROS of choice and you are in business.
>
>IME, and even with the same, or higher grit paper, the surface finish
>with the Fein, in corners where it's used, does not match the finish
>done with a ROS on the rest of the piece.
>
>This can be particularly glaring/evident when using a light stain and
>it's why I make the last few grit passes with a finish sander that will
>sand into corners, instead of using the Fein.
>
>(That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, breaking
>edges as I go. To me, that is the only satisfying part of the entire
>sanding process, and allows me time to inspect and rectify any problems
>with details).
>
>Gotta get enjoyment out of sanding where you can ... ;)
Indeed. A final hand sanding is a must, bringing you closer to the
wood, looking and feeling for blems, splinters, and sharp edges.
Do you wipe the entire project down with lacquer or paint thinner to
check for blems and degrease it? It can be a godsend.
I've prefinished a few projects prior to assembly, and that can be
very handy, too.
--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.
I use a quarter sheet Makita plam sander (about 15 years old) and the one
feature I would look for again (I had to be shown this by others) is taking
multiple sheets at a time. You prepare and mount three or four sheets and
when one is "dull" you tear it off and keep going. The motor hardly comes to
a rest.
When you have measured and got the perfect size sheet ready you make four at
a time and they are stored right on the unit. Back to work.
"WayneJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:op.vowdughonatzq9@dellilah...
I've pretty much decided that a 1/4 sheet palm sander is what I will buy.
The Bosch is one I am considering, but I have seen several reports of
problems with the sandpaper clamps. Mainly that the rubber on the front
clamp fails and will no longer grip the paper.
Have you seen any problems like this with your Bosch?
Thanks,
WayneJ
Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the advice. I'm still a little
unsure of which type to buy since there was some disagreement about which
is best for finishing work. My first need is for a couple of honey do
projects, especially a table.
Most likely I'll go for the palm sander unless I hear more to change my
mind.
I won't be buying the HF palm sander, a neighbor gave me his non working,
near-new one a few years ago, on the condition that I wouldn't try to get
even with him after I used it. I repaired it (electrical problem), but
found it to be a good example of just how cheaply something can be built
and still work, at least for a while. I used it a few times and it did a
surprisingly good job while it lasted except for the clips that hold the
sandpaper which were really poor. It died again with mechanical problems
and I tossed it.
WayneJ
--
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 07:07:30 -0800, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Great minds and all that rot... fools etc.<G>
>
> BUT!... I keep grabbing this thing: Bosch 1297DK. Not as aggressive as
> a ROS, but it always sits on my bench, ready with a sheet of fresh 120
> and I just love that little thing. (I also own 3 Festool sanders and a
> variety of bigger and smaller stuff.)
> With the adaptor, it is as dust-free as it gets, considering. 90%?
> If I HAD to have just one sander for smaller work, that Bosch would be
> it. I just wish it fit my hands like a SpeedBloc, but..*cough, cough*
I've pretty much decided that a 1/4 sheet palm sander is what I will buy.
The Bosch is one I am considering, but I have seen several reports of
problems with the sandpaper clamps. Mainly that the rubber on the front
clamp fails and will no longer grip the paper.
Have you seen any problems like this with your Bosch?
Thanks,
WayneJ
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:42:15 -0800, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Consider both. Each one has its own application. Neither will do all of
> the job the way that the other will.
>
I agree, Mike both would be best and that is likely what I'll do in the
future. At this time I can only buy one and the palm sander looks to be
better for my immediate needs.
WayneJ
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:54:02 -0800, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, Wayne, but what does the orbital do better for you
> than a ROS would? If it's just to do corners, you may already have a
> finish sander for that: HF Multifunction tool. If not, get one.
> They're really, really handy. You simply must have one in your tool
> stable before you need it, and once you have one, you'll find tons
> more things to use it on.
At this time I don't have a sander suitable for finish work, and have a
couple of honey-do projects that I need one for. After looking at all the
replies to my original question, I decided that having both sanders would
be the best plan, but right now I can buy only one.
The random orbital is more aggressive and could be a little easier for me
to accidentally cause a problem. Also a little more difficult to work with
in tight areas. The multifunction tool and a random orbital might well be
a very good choice for the future, but for my present situation, limited
to buying a single tool at this time, the palm sander seems better.
The random orbital sander and a multifunction tool are on the list for
future purchase, along with any number of other tools, but for now will
have to wait.
WayneJ
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 09:22:55 -0800, WayneJ <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I need to buy a new sander, primarily for finishing. I was set to go get a
>palm sander, but a couple of friends are telling me I should get a random
>orbital instead. They claim that they can be just as good for finish work
>and better for coarser things. I question whether they are really as good
>for finish sanding, and I already have a straight disk sander for rough
>work.
>
>I need to keep the cost reasonable, but I don't want to buy junk either.
>I'm looking at brands like Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. the money for
>brands like Festool isn't there. I think a 1/4 sheet palm sander or 5 inch
>random orbital sander, is what I'm looking at.
>
>Does anybody have thoughts on this, and any recommendations in the price
>range I'm limited to?
>
>Thanks,
>WayneJ
I guess I am different than the others. I plane, scape, and only sand
if needed. If I do sand, I will generally use the ROS up to 220 grit
and hand sand with 220 garnet paper with the grain. This varies
depending on the type of wood and the grain.
I do sometimes use a palm sander, but not as often as the others.
The main thing with the ROS is to use a light touch, and move the
sander slowly along the wood. I move the sander 1" per second. Don't
push the sander down into the wood. Just enough pressure to make sure
there is contact.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote
> I use every tool that can make my work easier, but whether it's painting a
> car, painting a piece of cherry, staining a piece of pine, or pouring on a
> quart of used 30 weight engine oil, it's that last hand to product contact
> that makes sure everything is going to look right. I believe the same
> statements could be made about sex...
Close.
I believe a tongue is one of the most important tools while inspecting for
sex.
I have yet to use on a piece of furniture for the last inspection pass,
however. ;-)
--
Jim in NC
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>
>>>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>>>> the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>>>
>>> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanders/other-accessories/hsk80x133-rectangular-sanding-block-hard-495967.html
>>
>
>
> A Festool sanding block? Probably cost at least $100.
IIRC $25
>
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:56:58 -0800, WayneJ <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:42:15 -0800, Mike Marlow
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Consider both. Each one has its own application. Neither will do all of
>> the job the way that the other will.
>>
>
>I agree, Mike both would be best and that is likely what I'll do in the
>future. At this time I can only buy one and the palm sander looks to be
>better for my immediate needs.
I'm just curious, Wayne, but what does the orbital do better for you
than a ROS would? If it's just to do corners, you may already have a
finish sander for that: HF Multifunction tool. If not, get one.
They're really, really handy. You simply must have one in your tool
stable before you need it, and once you have one, you'll find tons
more things to use it on.
--
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
-- Victor Borge
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> (That said, and with furniture, I make a final, light pass by hand with
>>> the highest grit spec'd, regardless of the size of the project, ...
>>
>> Where can I buy one of these "by hand sanders"? <G>
>>
>>
>
> http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanders/other-accessories/hsk80x133-rectangular-sanding-block-hard-495967.html
>
A Festool sanding block? Probably cost at least $100.