No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
of a tricycle.
I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
Thanks.
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Gunner Asch <[email protected]> fired this volley in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> True...but is it wood, or not?
>
>I would not call bamboo products wood. I suspose I might refer
>to a quantity of bamboo intended for building something "lumber".
Do you call particle board "lumber"? I suppose bamboo is closer to
butcher block but I wouldn't call it "lumber", I don't think. The
point being that it's made up of a bunch of small pieces (strips)
glued together to make something of a useful size.
>
>> A weird exception might be palm trunks
>> used as fence posts, but they're _barely_ 'woody', at their best.
>
>I just cut a dead palm down. I would not call that wood either.
>("pain in the ass" is what I would call it...)
>
>John
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:35:12 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Gunner Asch <[email protected]> fired this volley in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> True...but is it wood, or not?
>
>Gunner, we usually only call dicots 'wood'. 'Woody' monocots are not
>usually included in that genre. A weird exception might be palm trunks
>used as fence posts, but they're _barely_ 'woody', at their best.
>
>
>Lloyd
So a bamboo pole structure used as a scaffold is made up of grass.
Interesting. Then I should have said..."wood like"
Gunner
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On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 3:16:49 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
> John Doe <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>
> What's your definition of "stronger"? Compression or
> tension or shear? Resistance to flex (i.e. stiffness) or
> ability to take multiple cycles of flex (fatigue resistance)?
>
> I'm going to guess for your tricycle application that
> stiffness is a key parameter, in which case a tube is
> probably the stronger structure.
>
> John
If the user will be riding the tricycle like we did when I was young,
"multiple cycles of flex (fatigue resistance)" is also very important.
If it wasn't the driver riding with one foot on the rear platform, pushing
with the other, it was a friend/sibling standing on the platform.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/two-children-riding-one-tricycle-picture-id530860074
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:38:19 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Then there is bamboo
>
>Technically that is a grass.
>
>John
True...but is it wood, or not?
---
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On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 08:13:48 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 7/27/2016 2:50 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> In rec.crafts.metalworking John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>
>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>>> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>>> of a tricycle.
>>>
>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>
>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>>
>
>Well, this is true, ipe is stronger than aluminum foil but Balsa is
>weaker than titanium.
Then there is bamboo
---
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In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> "John Doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
> >
> > I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
> > whatever
> > other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the
> > rear end
> > of a tricycle.
> >
> > I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> > concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
> >
> > I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Look for discussions on homebuilt wooden airplanes.
John Doe should look into a field of endeavor called "stress analysis".
From there he should be able to find his own answer.
On 7/27/2016 5:41 PM, John Doe wrote:
> Cydrome Leader <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>
>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
>>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform,
>>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
>>>
>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>
>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>
> At the moment, I'm planning to buy and use this...
>
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81a-FvLE5BL._SL1500_.jpg
>
> Without the rear section. Not used as a drift trike.
>
> For argument, I'm talking about a straight crosswise board or
> rectangular aluminum tube, which one will stand up to greater pressure
> (including over time).
>
> This is something I have wondered about from time to time.
>
Depends.
Spruce has been used for aircraft construction because of is strength
to weight ratio. Check out the Spruce Goose for instance.
Too many variables. What size tube? Wall thickness? Alloy? Will it
flex? Should it flex?
John Doe <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
What's your definition of "stronger"? Compression or
tension or shear? Resistance to flex (i.e. stiffness) or
ability to take multiple cycles of flex (fatigue resistance)?
I'm going to guess for your tricycle application that
stiffness is a key parameter, in which case a tube is
probably the stronger structure.
John
Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Then there is bamboo
Technically that is a grass.
John
Cydrome Leader <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
There are bicycles made of wood (the frame, at least).
It doesn't lend itself to mass-production, so most
bicycles will be metal or composite (e.g. carbon fiber).
John
Gunner Asch <[email protected]> fired this volley in
news:[email protected]:
> True...but is it wood, or not?
Gunner, we usually only call dicots 'wood'. 'Woody' monocots are not
usually included in that genre. A weird exception might be palm trunks
used as fence posts, but they're _barely_ 'woody', at their best.
Lloyd
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Gunner Asch <[email protected]> fired this volley in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> True...but is it wood, or not?
I would not call bamboo products wood. I suspose I might refer
to a quantity of bamboo intended for building something "lumber".
> A weird exception might be palm trunks
> used as fence posts, but they're _barely_ 'woody', at their best.
I just cut a dead palm down. I would not call that wood either.
("pain in the ass" is what I would call it...)
John
Gunner Asch <[email protected]> fired this volley in
news:[email protected]:
> So a bamboo pole structure used as a scaffold is made up of grass.
Indeed, it is!
L
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 08:13:48 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 7/27/2016 2:50 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> In rec.crafts.metalworking John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>
>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>>> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>>> of a tricycle.
>>>
>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>
>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>>
>
>Well, this is true, ipe is stronger than aluminum foil but Balsa is
>weaker than titanium.
This is a manageable question if you specify acceptable dimensions and
how the axle is loaded (it depends on the structural section and
dimensions -- either one can be stonger per pound -- except that it
also depends on whether the load is applied in a point), but wood is
so complicated, from a structural standpoint, that just asking "which
is stronger" just leads around in circles.
Here's an example: Douglas Fir is three times stronger than aluminum
per pound in compression -- parallel to the grain axis. Perpendicular
to the grain axis, fir is 1/3 as strong as aluminum in compression.
Tension is much more complicated because of the difficulty of
attaching a load to wood in tension.
If you want to get serious about comparing the two, the easy way is to
look up construction tables for bending horizontal wood beams, and
then getting the specs on an aluminum section that you choose. That
is, one you can *get*.
They're both on the same order or close to it. But arranging the
design for applying loads will give aluminum the advantage. That's one
of the problems with engineering with wood, unless your loads are
purely in compression.
If you want to get into it, this will occupy you for a while:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf
This one has good stuff on beams:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12299/12299-h/12299-h.htm
The Forest Products Laboratory has a wealth of information, if you
have nothing else to do with your life.
BTW, aside from aircraft, a very successful race car from around 1960
had a chassis made of plywood (the original Marcos GT). And the
stiffness and strength of fir plywood is roughly equivalent to a cored
composite made from polyurethane foam, ordinary S-fiberglass, and
polyester resin.
Not bad.
--
Ed Huntress
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:03:58 -0700, Felix <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 07/28/2016 02:39 AM, John Doe wrote:
>> Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> John Doe wrote:
>>
>>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>>
>>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
>>>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform,
>>>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
>>>>
>>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>
>>> Balsa is both the lighest wood *and* the strongest wood for its
>>> weight. Black Widow Spider webs are stronger than steel.
>>>
>>> What you want is an oval balsa tube externally braced with spider
>>> webs.
>>
>> You wouldn't be making fun of spiders if they were 3 feet tall.
>
>Japanese Spider Crab is horrific.
>
><http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f78d72KypOY/maxresdefault.jpg>
>
><https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/japanese_spider_crab.jpg>
Yummmy!!
---
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On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 4:04:02 PM UTC-4, Felix wrote:
> On 07/28/2016 02:39 AM, John Doe wrote:
> > Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> John Doe wrote:
> >
> >>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
> >>>
> >>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
> >>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform,
> >>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
> >>>
> >>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> >>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
> >>>
> >>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
> >
> >> Balsa is both the lighest wood *and* the strongest wood for its
> >> weight. Black Widow Spider webs are stronger than steel.
> >>
> >> What you want is an oval balsa tube externally braced with spider
> >> webs.
> >
> > You wouldn't be making fun of spiders if they were 3 feet tall.
>
> Japanese Spider Crab is horrific.
>
> <http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f78d72KypOY/maxresdefault.jpg>
>
> <https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/japanese_spider_crab.jpg>
I wonder what Red Lobster charges for one of those.
On 2016-07-28, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 07/28/2016 8:56 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> ...
>
>> BTW, aside from aircraft, a very successful race car from around 1960
>> had a chassis made of plywood (the original Marcos GT). And the
>> stiffness and strength of fir plywood is roughly equivalent to a cored
>> composite made from polyurethane foam, ordinary S-fiberglass, and
>> polyester resin.
>>
>> Not bad.
>
> There's also the torsion box...
....and the Spruce Goose and de Havilland Mosquito bomber and some
WWII landing craft. ;)
nb
On 2016-07-28, Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
> Japanese Spider Crab is horrific.
Ewww!
Makes me wonder why all those monster movies of the 50s needed to show
magnified or prop monsters (Tarantula, Mysterious Island, etc). ;)
nb
On 7/27/2016 2:50 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> In rec.crafts.metalworking John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>
>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>> of a tricycle.
>>
>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>
>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>
Well, this is true, ipe is stronger than aluminum foil but Balsa is
weaker than titanium.
On 28 Jul 2016 20:35:20 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2016-07-28, Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Japanese Spider Crab is horrific.
>
>Ewww!
>
>Makes me wonder why all those monster movies of the 50s needed to show
>magnified or prop monsters (Tarantula, Mysterious Island, etc). ;)
Because Fukushima hadn't happened yet?
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:38:19 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Then there is bamboo
>
>Technically that is a grass.
>
>John
Many decades ago, when Japanese cars were still a joke, Road & Track
ran a spoof about a Japanese F1 car, with a frame made of bamboominum
tubing...
--
Ed Huntress
"John Doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>
> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
> whatever
> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the
> rear end
> of a tricycle.
>
> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>
> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
> Thanks.
Look for discussions on homebuilt wooden airplanes.
In rec.crafts.metalworking John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>
> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
> of a tricycle.
>
> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>
> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
> Thanks.
Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC)
John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
in what way is weight a concern in your application
On 07/27/2016 11:10 AM, John Doe wrote:
> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>
> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
> of a tricycle.
>
> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>
> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
> Thanks.
Balsa is both the lighest wood *and* the strongest wood for its weight.
Black Widow Spider webs are stronger than steel.
What you want is an oval balsa tube externally braced with spider webs.
Cydrome Leader <[email protected]> wrote:
> John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>
>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform,
>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
>>
>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>
>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
At the moment, I'm planning to buy and use this...
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81a-FvLE5BL._SL1500_.jpg
Without the rear section. Not used as a drift trike.
For argument, I'm talking about a straight crosswise board or
rectangular aluminum tube, which one will stand up to greater pressure
(including over time).
This is something I have wondered about from time to time.
Crossposting psychopathic troll...
--
John Doe <always.look message.header> wrote in news:nnatdo$g7p$1 dont-email.me:
> Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: John Doe <always.look message.header>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking
> Subject: Is wood stronger than metal per weight?
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC)
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Lines: 2
> Message-ID: <nnatdo$g7p$1 dont-email.me>
> Injection-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC)
> User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:fc60MLy/Sb6ZSXKEKyiSua+oyMU=
>
>
>
>No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>
>I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>of a tricycle.
>
>I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>
>I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
>Thanks.
In rec.crafts.metalworking Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 07/27/2016 11:10 AM, John Doe wrote:
>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>
>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>> of a tricycle.
>>
>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>
>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Balsa is both the lighest wood *and* the strongest wood for its weight.
> Black Widow Spider webs are stronger than steel.
>
> What you want is an oval balsa tube externally braced with spider webs.
Ha!
Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
> John Doe wrote:
>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>
>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform,
>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
>>
>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>
>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
> Balsa is both the lighest wood *and* the strongest wood for its
> weight. Black Widow Spider webs are stronger than steel.
>
> What you want is an oval balsa tube externally braced with spider
> webs.
You wouldn't be making fun of spiders if they were 3 feet tall.
My spankings have left some bruises on the nym-shifting troll...
--
" " <. .> wrote in news:nnbb0j$1omf$1 gioia.aioe.org:
> Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: " " <. .>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking,free.spirit
> Subject: Re: Is wood stronger than metal per weight?
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 17:01:54 -0500
> Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
> Lines: 35
> Message-ID: <nnbb0j$1omf$1 gioia.aioe.org>
> References: <nnatdo$g7p$1 dont-email.me>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 93x1vcfh2YBUciLgXPiiRA.user.gioia.aioe.org
> X-Complaints-To: abuse aioe.org
> User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (NetBSD/7.0 (amd64))
> X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.crafts.metalworking:480910 rec.woodworking:187556 free.spirit:3246
>
> Crossposting psychopathic troll...
>
> --
> John Doe <always.look message.header> wrote in news:nnatdo$g7p$1 dont-email.me:
>
>> Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> From: John Doe <always.look message.header>
>> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking,rec.woodworking
>> Subject: Is wood stronger than metal per weight?
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC)
>> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
>> Lines: 2
>> Message-ID: <nnatdo$g7p$1 dont-email.me>
>> Injection-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:10:00 -0000 (UTC)
>> User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
>> Cancel-Lock: sha1:fc60MLy/Sb6ZSXKEKyiSua+oyMU=
>>
>>
>>
>>No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>
>>I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>>other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>>of a tricycle.
>>
>>I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>
>>I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote:
> John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>
> in what way is weight a concern in your application
As stated, it is "no big deal". It is something have wondered about from
time to time. It is probably close enough so it doesn't matter in my
application.
"John Doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cydrome Leader <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>
>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube
>>> (or
>>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel
>>> platform,
>>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
>>>
>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation.
>>> Not
>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>
>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>
> At the moment, I'm planning to buy and use this...
>
> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81a-FvLE5BL._SL1500_.jpg
>
> Without the rear section. Not used as a drift trike.
>
> For argument, I'm talking about a straight crosswise board or
> rectangular aluminum tube, which one will stand up to greater
> pressure
> (including over time).
>
> This is something I have wondered about from time to time.
Properly used, wood is capable of excellent performance, for example
the Mosquito airplane, longbows, stagecoaches, skis, wood-framed
birchbark canoes and Egyptian chariots, which are remarkably light for
a fast off-road vehicle.
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/chariots.htm
Improperly used it's dangerous because the properties of individual
pieces are unpredictable and strong joints require experience to
design and skill to make.
Wood, steel and aluminum have all been used to build light and strong
airplanes, even jet fighters. It's up to you to learn how to apply
them.
--jsw
"Ed Huntress" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 08:13:48 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>>On 7/27/2016 2:50 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>>> In rec.crafts.metalworking John Doe <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>>
>>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube
>>>> (or whatever
>>>> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for
>>>> the rear end
>>>> of a tricycle.
>>>>
>>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation.
>>>> Not
>>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>>>
>>
>>Well, this is true, ipe is stronger than aluminum foil but Balsa is
>>weaker than titanium.
>
> This is a manageable question if you specify acceptable dimensions
> and
> how the axle is loaded (it depends on the structural section and
> dimensions -- either one can be stonger per pound -- except that it
> also depends on whether the load is applied in a point), but wood is
> so complicated, from a structural standpoint, that just asking
> "which
> is stronger" just leads around in circles.
>
> Here's an example: Douglas Fir is three times stronger than aluminum
> per pound in compression -- parallel to the grain axis.
> Perpendicular
> to the grain axis, fir is 1/3 as strong as aluminum in compression.
> Tension is much more complicated because of the difficulty of
> attaching a load to wood in tension.
>
> If you want to get serious about comparing the two, the easy way is
> to
> look up construction tables for bending horizontal wood beams, and
> then getting the specs on an aluminum section that you choose. That
> is, one you can *get*.
>
> They're both on the same order or close to it. But arranging the
> design for applying loads will give aluminum the advantage. That's
> one
> of the problems with engineering with wood, unless your loads are
> purely in compression.
>
> If you want to get into it, this will occupy you for a while:
>
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf
>
> This one has good stuff on beams:
>
> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12299/12299-h/12299-h.htm
>
> The Forest Products Laboratory has a wealth of information, if you
> have nothing else to do with your life.
>
> BTW, aside from aircraft, a very successful race car from around
> 1960
> had a chassis made of plywood (the original Marcos GT). And the
> stiffness and strength of fir plywood is roughly equivalent to a
> cored
> composite made from polyurethane foam, ordinary S-fiberglass, and
> polyester resin.
>
> Not bad.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
Here's how to determine the modulus of elasticity value for the
tables:
http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/wood/wood_stiffness.php
On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:10:00 +0000, John Doe wrote:
> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>
> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
> of a tricycle.
>
> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>
> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
"Sandwich-structured composites" (see refs) are one way to build a light
but stiff panel or beam. Some pieces I've tested are stiffer than steel
or aluminum beams weighing ten times as much. You may be able to buy 2'x4'
aluminum honeycomb-core panels online or if you live near an aircraft
factory can get cutoffs that would be large enough. If you have any fab
skills you could make a beam with steel, aluminum, fiberglass, kevlar, or
carbon fiber skins over balsa core.
Refs: <http://singcore.com/tag/aluminum-honeycomb-panel>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich-structured_composite>
<http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/mass-reduction-for-mass-appeal-frps-and-cmcs-in-rvs>
<http://www.fibeco.com/home/composites/>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rctankcombat/SoC-E8ZmTfY>
<https://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-61259.html>
--
jiw
On 07/28/2016 8:56 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...
> BTW, aside from aircraft, a very successful race car from around 1960
> had a chassis made of plywood (the original Marcos GT). And the
> stiffness and strength of fir plywood is roughly equivalent to a cored
> composite made from polyurethane foam, ordinary S-fiberglass, and
> polyester resin.
>
> Not bad.
There's also the torsion box...
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On 07/28/2016 02:39 AM, John Doe wrote:
> Felix <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> John Doe wrote:
>
>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>
>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or
>>> whatever other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform,
>>> for the rear end of a tricycle.
>>>
>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>
>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>
>> Balsa is both the lighest wood *and* the strongest wood for its
>> weight. Black Widow Spider webs are stronger than steel.
>>
>> What you want is an oval balsa tube externally braced with spider
>> webs.
>
> You wouldn't be making fun of spiders if they were 3 feet tall.
Japanese Spider Crab is horrific.
<http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f78d72KypOY/maxresdefault.jpg>
<https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/japanese_spider_crab.jpg>
On 07/28/2016 8:38 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Gunner Asch<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Then there is bamboo
>
> Technically that is a grass.
Technically, that would be botanically...
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"John McCoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cydrome Leader <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>
> There are bicycles made of wood (the frame, at least).
> It doesn't lend itself to mass-production, so most
> bicycles will be metal or composite (e.g. carbon fiber).
>
> John
When I saw this collection it included a wood-framed motorcycle from
the 1800's. The ignition was an external heated copper tube. IIRC it
was on loan from Kalifornia.
http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2008/10/super-secret-nsu-collection-spy-photos.html
--jsw
"Jim Wilkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John McCoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Cydrome Leader <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>>
>> There are bicycles made of wood (the frame, at least).
>> It doesn't lend itself to mass-production, so most
>> bicycles will be metal or composite (e.g. carbon fiber).
>>
>> John
>
> When I saw this collection it included a wood-framed motorcycle from
> the 1800's. The ignition was an external heated copper tube. IIRC it
> was on loan from Kalifornia.
> http://thevintagent.blogspot.com/2008/10/super-secret-nsu-collection-spy-photos.html
>
> --jsw
Found it!
It was one of these replicas:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Reitwagen
Gunner Asch <[email protected]> on Fri, 29 Jul 2016 20:04:13 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:35:12 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Gunner Asch <[email protected]> fired this volley in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> True...but is it wood, or not?
>>
>>Gunner, we usually only call dicots 'wood'. 'Woody' monocots are not
>>usually included in that genre. A weird exception might be palm trunks
>>used as fence posts, but they're _barely_ 'woody', at their best.
>>
>>
>>Lloyd
>
>So a bamboo pole structure used as a scaffold is made up of grass.
>
>Interesting. Then I should have said..."wood like"
I think the technical term is "Woody."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:02:30 -0700, Gunner Asch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 08:13:48 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 7/27/2016 2:50 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>>> In rec.crafts.metalworking John Doe <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> No big deal, but I want to know. Partly curious.
>>>>
>>>> I want to use a crosswise board or an aluminum rectangular tube (or whatever
>>>> other metal would be appropriate) as a two wheel platform, for the rear end
>>>> of a tricycle.
>>>>
>>>> I want more intelligent/experienced guesses about the situation. Not
>>>> concerned about workability, weather resistance, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I see some opinions on the Internet that go both ways.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Is your bike made of metallic tubing or wood?
>>>
>>
>>Well, this is true, ipe is stronger than aluminum foil but Balsa is
>>weaker than titanium.
>
>Then there is bamboo
Which is grass. ;-)