I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I need to
build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6 posts and an
arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on the top is not a
problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the facia, from a glued up
lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany. Now for the question, "What
is the absolute best glue to use?" Bear in mind this is going to be
outside in the wonderful humid and hot Alabama weather.
Thanks
Deb
Dr. Deb (in [email protected]) said:
| I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I
| need to build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6
| posts and an arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on
| the top is not a problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the
| facia, from a glued up lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany.
| Now for the question, "What is the absolute best glue to use?"
| Bear in mind this is going to be outside in the wonderful humid and
| hot Alabama weather.
My experience is limited; but I've had good results in Iowa with both
Epoxy and TBIII. I'm fairly confident that the epoxy will hold up -
but I'll have to let you know about the TB in another 20 years or
so...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Dr. Deb wrote:
> I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I need to
> build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6 posts and an
> arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on the top is not a
> problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the facia, from a glued up
> lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany. Now for the question, "What
> is the absolute best glue to use?" Bear in mind this is going to be
> outside in the wonderful humid and hot Alabama weather.
>
> Thanks
>
> Deb
Sounds similar to problems related to boatbuilding. There, the choice
#1 is epoxy, #2 polyurethane. Both messy, epoxy can induce alergy-wear
latex gloves. Good luck
Dr. Deb wrote:
> I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I need to
> build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6 posts and an
> arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on the top is not a
> problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the facia, from a glued up
> lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany. Now for the question, "What
> is the absolute best glue to use?" Bear in mind this is going to be
> outside in the wonderful humid and hot Alabama weather.
>
> Thanks
>
> Deb
Sounds similar to problems related to boatbuilding. There, the choice
#1 is epoxy, #2 polyurethane. Both messy, epoxy can induce alergy-wear
latex gloves. Good luck
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I need to
> build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6 posts and an
> arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on the top is not a
> problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the facia, from a glued up
> lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany. Now for the question, "What
> is the absolute best glue to use?" Bear in mind this is going to be
> outside in the wonderful humid and hot Alabama weather.
>
> Thanks
>
> Deb
I agree with others, Epoxy or Gorilla. That being said, I think most glues
will work if there is good preparation and the finish is done well and
maintained. I made a sign 10"x26" from old fir scraps, glued with good old
TB2. The sign is used in the local mountains. The sign is painted and has
lasted over 10 years!
Dave
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Sounds similar to problems related to boatbuilding. There, the choice
> > #1 is epoxy, #2 polyurethane. Both messy, epoxy can induce alergy-wear
> > latex gloves. Good luck
> >
>
> Yes, they would be good choices. I've used epoxy outside and I've used
> Titebond III with excellent results so far, but it has only been a year.
> Titebond II I've had outside for about 5 years now with no problem. I've
> yet to try a urethane yet though.
You should. I used to use Gorilla, now I use Elmer's polyurethane
glue. Good stuff. In another reply in this thread someone said that
polyuethane doesn't fill gaps. Not sure where that came from. The
polyurethane foams up and most certainly will fill gaps. I know that
there are different formulations, some billed as low foaming, but
unless the gaps are ridiculously large it will fill them.
Some reviews:
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/12_2sharpexcel.html
http://www.epinions.com/Glue_Adhesives-Borden_Elmer_s_ProBond_Polyurethane_Glue_2_Oz/display_~reviews
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Polyurethane_PUR_adhesives.html
R
Dr. Deb wrote:
> tom wrote:
>
> > Gorilla? Tom
>
> I have tried Gorilla glue and have not been impressed with it - had it fail
> too often. Also tried "Probond?" and it was worse.
This begs some questions. I've used both and never had either one
fail, whether indoors or out. What exactly failed, and how?
> Sounds like it will be epoxy. Now for the $64,000 question, "Which Epoxy?"
Frankly, any. The epoxy is so much stronger than the wood it doesn't
matter. If you're looking for a brand recommendation, West Systems
Epoxy by the Gougeon Bros. is the gold standard. They literally wrote
the book on epoxy starting with their work on ice boats. They have a
very extensive web site with a tremendous amount of information.
http://www.westsystem.com/
You can get West System products at West Marine in your area:
http://www.geoserve.com/scripts/esrimap.dll?Name=L&Com=adr&Db=DLRWMarine&Ds=&RT=lo&LIM=200&UIn1=&Ci=montgomery&St=Alabama&x=13&y=8
Another poster mentioned microballons which is a marine industry
staple. The microballoons, West's Microlight, is a fairing filler and
not the best product for bonding. Their Colloidal Silica (think sand
in suspension) or their High Density Filler would be preferable, , but
frankly, you can use just about anything as a thickening agent. Sand
would work if you mixed it in well. Don't do that, though, as it gives
me the shudders to think about it!
R
Australopithecus scobis wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:21:16 -0800, RicodJour opined:
>
> > polyuethane doesn't fill gaps. Not sure where that came from. The
> > polyurethane foams up and most certainly will fill gaps. I know that
>
> Yah, the foam fills the space, but it doesn't provide strength. "Gap
> filling" is a glue-boffin term for "fills the gaps and supplies strength."
> The microballoon fans here can give you the details.
I do take your point about needing to clarify that the properties of a
gap filling polyurethane doesn't equate with the full strength of a
tight fitting joint with the same glue, much less epoxy, but the
polyurethane will certainly add more strength to a slightly loose joint
due to its foaming properties. Saying it doesn't provide strength is
as much of an oversimplification as the original comment that it
doesn't fill gaps.
I'm fairly fluent in epoxy, been working with it for twenty-five years
knocking around in boat yards, etc. Microballoons are the lowest
strength filler, but provide all the strength you'd need for
woodworking and cabinetry work.
R
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> Sounds similar to problems related to boatbuilding. There, the choice
> #1 is epoxy, #2 polyurethane. Both messy, epoxy can induce alergy-wear
> latex gloves. Good luck
>
Yes, they would be good choices. I've used epoxy outside and I've used
Titebond III with excellent results so far, but it has only been a year.
Titebond II I've had outside for about 5 years now with no problem. I've
yet to try a urethane yet though.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Peter Huebner wrote:
>
> > Since everybody else has recommended PolyUrethane and Epoxy I will
> give you a
> > third alternative: Resorcinol. Resorcinol has a red glue-line, but
> that will
> > not show with your Mahogany. This is the stuff typically used here in
> NZ to
> > manufacture laminated beams etc - it's boiling-water proof...
>
> <snip>
>
> SFWIW, resorcinal is the weapon of choice when gluing white oak.
>
> Epoxy is not a good choice for white oak.
>
> Lew
Yes, Resorcinol! I had forgotten - not used it for years. Used to be the
glue of choice for exterior joinery. Simpler to make up than epoxy -
what is it, powder into liquid or the other way around? I forget.
Seems like it could be a bit harder to find though, right? I mean I
don't recall seeing it at HD.
And, uh, not to ruffle feathers, but also not gap filling. Joints should
be well fit. I suppose you could say it would add strength across a
gap,(like polyurethane, too) but only like caramelized sugar adds
strength to flan.
Harvey
Peter Huebner wrote:
> Since everybody else has recommended PolyUrethane and Epoxy I will
give you a
> third alternative: Resorcinol. Resorcinol has a red glue-line, but
that will
> not show with your Mahogany. This is the stuff typically used here in
NZ to
> manufacture laminated beams etc - it's boiling-water proof...
<snip>
SFWIW, resorcinal is the weapon of choice when gluing white oak.
Epoxy is not a good choice for white oak.
Lew
In article <[email protected]>, dgfreeman@mon-
cre.net says...
> I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I need to
> build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6 posts and an
> arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on the top is not a
> problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the facia, from a glued up
> lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany. Now for the question, "What
> is the absolute best glue to use?" Bear in mind this is going to be
> outside in the wonderful humid and hot Alabama weather.
>
> Thanks
>
> Deb
Since everybody else has recommended PolyUrethane and Epoxy I will give you a
third alternative: Resorcinol. Resorcinol has a red glue-line, but that will
not show with your Mahogany. This is the stuff typically used here in NZ to
manufacture laminated beams etc - it's boiling-water proof...
I made some outside stairs to our verandah by laminating 6x2 into 12x2 with
Resorcinol near 10 years ago and they're as good as the day I made them.
Untreated, non-painted eucalypt.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
eclipsme <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Peter Huebner wrote:
>>
>> > Since everybody else has recommended PolyUrethane and Epoxy I will
>> give you a
>> > third alternative: Resorcinol. Resorcinol has a red glue-line, but
>> that will
>> > not show with your Mahogany. This is the stuff typically used here
>> > in
>> NZ to
>> > manufacture laminated beams etc - it's boiling-water proof...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> SFWIW, resorcinal is the weapon of choice when gluing white oak.
>>
>> Epoxy is not a good choice for white oak.
>>
>> Lew
> Yes, Resorcinol! I had forgotten - not used it for years. Used to be
> the glue of choice for exterior joinery. Simpler to make up than epoxy
> - what is it, powder into liquid or the other way around? I forget.
>
> Seems like it could be a bit harder to find though, right? I mean I
> don't recall seeing it at HD.
>
> And, uh, not to ruffle feathers, but also not gap filling. Joints
> should be well fit. I suppose you could say it would add strength
> across a gap,(like polyurethane, too) but only like caramelized sugar
> adds strength to flan.
>
> Harvey
DAP Weldwood is available at the corner hardware store in my town...
Patriarch
Dr. Deb wrote:
> tom wrote:
>
>> Gorilla? Tom
>
> I have tried Gorilla glue and have not been impressed with it - had it fail
> too often. Also tried "Probond?" and it was worse.
>
> Sounds like it will be epoxy. Now for the $64,000 question, "Which Epoxy?"
>
> Thanks again
>
> Deb
PolyUrethane glue is an excellent exterior, waterproof glue, but will
not fill gaps. If the joint is loose do not use it.
Epoxy will fill gaps and voids, but will have an easier to see glue line
because of it.
Depends on your joinery, I guess. I like not having to mix, so tend to
favor polyurethane.
Harvey
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:39:27 -0600, "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I have a project and need some advice. I have a medium size sign I need to
>build for a local church. The design plans call for 6x6 posts and an
>arched top. Doing the bending of the facia boards on the top is not a
>problem. But I plan on making the 6x6, and the facia, from a glued up
>lamination. The wood of choice is mahogany. Now for the question, "What
>is the absolute best glue to use?" Bear in mind this is going to be
>outside in the wonderful humid and hot Alabama weather.
>
>Thanks
>
>Deb
You can use waterproof woodworker's glue. Make sure it says
"waterproof" or "water resistant" on the package. Elmers or Titebond
are two good brands. Use stainless steel fasteners to prevent
staining. My concern would be protecting the mahogany from the
elements--maybe a marine epoxy varnish.
RicodJour wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Sounds similar to problems related to boatbuilding. There, the choice
>>> #1 is epoxy, #2 polyurethane. Both messy, epoxy can induce alergy-wear
>>> latex gloves. Good luck
>>>
>> Yes, they would be good choices. I've used epoxy outside and I've used
>> Titebond III with excellent results so far, but it has only been a year.
>> Titebond II I've had outside for about 5 years now with no problem. I've
>> yet to try a urethane yet though.
>
> You should. I used to use Gorilla, now I use Elmer's polyurethane
> glue. Good stuff. In another reply in this thread someone said that
> polyuethane doesn't fill gaps. Not sure where that came from. The
> polyurethane foams up and most certainly will fill gaps. I know that
> there are different formulations, some billed as low foaming, but
> unless the gaps are ridiculously large it will fill them.
>
> Some reviews:
> http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/12_2sharpexcel.html
> http://www.epinions.com/Glue_Adhesives-Borden_Elmer_s_ProBond_Polyurethane_Glue_2_Oz/display_~reviews
> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Polyurethane_PUR_adhesives.html
>
> R
>
Right, the foam fills the gaps but with no strength, so doesn't count.
You have to have tight joints for the glue to hold properly.
Harvey
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:21:16 -0800, RicodJour opined:
> polyuethane doesn't fill gaps. Not sure where that came from. The
> polyurethane foams up and most certainly will fill gaps. I know that
Yah, the foam fills the space, but it doesn't provide strength. "Gap
filling" is a glue-boffin term for "fills the gaps and supplies strength."
The microballoon fans here can give you the details.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
wreck20051219 at spambob.net
Patriarch wrote:
> eclipsme <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Peter Huebner wrote:
>>>
>>> > Since everybody else has recommended PolyUrethane and Epoxy I will
>>> give you a
>>> > third alternative: Resorcinol. Resorcinol has a red glue-line, but
>>> that will
>>> > not show with your Mahogany. This is the stuff typically used here
>>> > in
>>> NZ to
>>> > manufacture laminated beams etc - it's boiling-water proof...
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> SFWIW, resorcinal is the weapon of choice when gluing white oak.
>>>
>>> Epoxy is not a good choice for white oak.
>>>
>>> Lew
>> Yes, Resorcinol! I had forgotten - not used it for years. Used to be
>> the glue of choice for exterior joinery. Simpler to make up than epoxy
>> - what is it, powder into liquid or the other way around? I forget.
>>
>> Seems like it could be a bit harder to find though, right? I mean I
>> don't recall seeing it at HD.
>>
>> And, uh, not to ruffle feathers, but also not gap filling. Joints
>> should be well fit. I suppose you could say it would add strength
>> across a gap,(like polyurethane, too) but only like caramelized sugar
>> adds strength to flan.
>>
>> Harvey
>
> DAP Weldwood is available at the corner hardware store in my town...
>
> Patriarch
But Weldwood is water resistant, not waterproof, I believe.
Harvey
Caramelized sugar does not add strength to flan! It's dissolved by the hot
liquid. It adds flavor!
"eclipsme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
> > Peter Huebner wrote:
> >
> > > Since everybody else has recommended PolyUrethane and Epoxy I will
> > give you a
> > > third alternative: Resorcinol. Resorcinol has a red glue-line, but
> > that will
> > > not show with your Mahogany. This is the stuff typically used here in
> > NZ to
> > > manufacture laminated beams etc - it's boiling-water proof...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > SFWIW, resorcinal is the weapon of choice when gluing white oak.
> >
> > Epoxy is not a good choice for white oak.
> >
> > Lew
> Yes, Resorcinol! I had forgotten - not used it for years. Used to be the
> glue of choice for exterior joinery. Simpler to make up than epoxy -
> what is it, powder into liquid or the other way around? I forget.
>
> Seems like it could be a bit harder to find though, right? I mean I
> don't recall seeing it at HD.
>
> And, uh, not to ruffle feathers, but also not gap filling. Joints should
> be well fit. I suppose you could say it would add strength across a
> gap,(like polyurethane, too) but only like caramelized sugar adds
> strength to flan.
>
> Harvey