exploding MDF

Larry Jaques wrote:

>>bad news: the smell of the stuff never went away and I couldn't stand wearing
>>the sucker..
>
>
> What do they use in it, buffalo snot?

Hell, shaving cream would have the same effect. It will keep the
mirrors in the bathroom fog-free. Downside is that it would probably
negate the effect of any anti-static spray. Sometimes, you just can't win.

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Any damage to the saw blade? I'm wondering about a "freak"
occurrence
> >where you might have had a piece of metal in the MDF mix.
>
> Yeah, I wonder about that too. Seems more likely than anything
resulting from
> residual moisture: the OP said he glued it up "a few days ago" which
should be
> plenty of time for moisture to disperse and dissipate. I've cut MDF
glue-ups
> within a couple hours of gluing, and never experienced anything
similar.
>
Maybe. Some years ago, I had a piece of OSB disintegrate as I was
crosscutting it on an RAS. Tore up my right hand a bit and a chunk
large enough to matter hit me in the groin so hard it was 10 minutes
before I realized my hand was pumping blood all over the place. What
happen? My guess: lack of glue at the point I was cutting allow wood
chips to catch, ride the blade and catch again in the kerf, ripping the
kerf apart, and flinging wood all over the place. I don't know if MDF
fibers can do the same, but I'd guess it's possible. Even a small chunk
of metal that rides a tooth instead of getting flung would something
similar, I'd guess. A larger metal piece might just tear the hell out
of things more immediately (as if 1/1000th of a second is going to make
a lot of difference).

Hax Planks wrote:
>
> Ouch. I feel your pain. I could see that happening more easily if
> there was a ripping blade in the RAS where a crosscut or laminate
blade
> would have been much better. The manager of one of the Indy BORG
said
> that OSHA is so strict on RAS's that there's is caged to the extent
that
> it is almost worthless.

Combination blade, IIRC. No matter how bizarre an accident is, there is
always that chance for error, or for simple chance crappy luck, that
creates the hassle.

Though it wasn't the saw's fault, I got rid of it the next week, and
have seldom used an RAS since. Kind of silly, because it was almost
certainly a combination of operator error--did I have the wood all the
way against the back fence--or poor wood storage. Or both.

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> Andy Dingley wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:29:28 +0000,
> > [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
> >
> >>Has anyone solved this dilemma,
> >
> > Use an old face shield. A dirty one is less insulating, so stores
less
> > charge.
> >
> > You can also try "anti-dim" (anti-condensation) pastes wiped onto
them
> > - these have a similar effect. I sometimes use the stuff supplied
for
> > Soviet gasmasks, because it's cheap in the surplus shop.
>
> How about fabric softener spray or tissues?
>
> Seems to me that back in the "golden old days" of computerdom (you
know,
> mid'-80's) there was more fear of static in the office than, say,
> acetone, static discharge in DC's, or stain on cherry, than anything
> else. I recall that folks were spraying fabric softener around the
> computer to defeat static. Since it supposedly softens and prevents
> that dreaded "static cling" it's probably worth a try.

Just don't use fabric softener around your microfiber cleaning cloths.
They work by using static cling.

On 14 Apr 2005 03:35:21 -0700, the inscrutable "Charlie Self"
<[email protected]> spake:

>
>Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>> > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:29:28 +0000,
>> > [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>> >
>> >>Has anyone solved this dilemma,
>> >
>> > Use an old face shield. A dirty one is less insulating, so stores
>less
>> > charge.
>> >
>> > You can also try "anti-dim" (anti-condensation) pastes wiped onto
>them
>> > - these have a similar effect. I sometimes use the stuff supplied
>for
>> > Soviet gasmasks, because it's cheap in the surplus shop.
>>
>> How about fabric softener spray or tissues?
>>
>> Seems to me that back in the "golden old days" of computerdom (you
>know,
>> mid'-80's) there was more fear of static in the office than, say,
>> acetone, static discharge in DC's, or stain on cherry, than anything
>> else. I recall that folks were spraying fabric softener around the
>> computer to defeat static. Since it supposedly softens and prevents
>> that dreaded "static cling" it's probably worth a try.
>
>Just don't use fabric softener around your microfiber cleaning cloths.
>They work by using static cling.

Y'mean you guys don't have monitor squeegees? I love mine, and it
works on the TV, too. Mine came from giveaways at COMDEX.

http://www.promowebsite.com/screensweeppage.htm
http://www.4imprint.com/Screen-Sweep/EXEC/DETAIL/FROMPRODUCTGROUP/~SKU000333/~CA333.htm

I use a damp cloth on my face shield (which seems to work fine) but
wonder if something like Rain-X or Fog-X would help not only the
static but the smaller scratches. I'll have to try it.


----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
==================================================

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:24:02 -0500, the inscrutable Patriarch
<[email protected]> spake:

>Australopithecus scobis <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:07:15 +0000, Jason wrote:
>>
>>> I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
>>> inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode!
>>
>> While we wait for answers from people who actually know what they're
>> talking about, I'll wave my hands and say "steam explosion." Water in
>> your glue couldn't get out and saturated nearby areas of mdf, then the
>> sawblade superheated that area.
>>
>
>And it wouldn't have happened with hand tools, right? When was the last
>time the dozuki kicked back?

The little red button on the end of my ryoba puts it in automatic
kickback-free mode. I leave it engaged.


--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites

Larry Jaques wrote:

> Rain-X is also used on aircraft windshields, so I'm sure it's OK.
> I polished my computer and reading glasses with it and the polycarb
> lenses on both are fine.

Okay as far as damaging the poly but I was more concerned that the
Rain-X would do nothing to remove the smaller scratches you referenced.
I took a look at the Rain-X bottle I have and this not billed as a
cleaner but rather a topping after you have the windshield scrupuously
cleaned with other chemicals, etc. To remove the scratches there should
be some microabrasive component to the Rain-X, no?

Also the ingredients are two kinds of alcohol and siloxyate (Sp?) Could
this be a dreaded silicone act alike? It's a stretch but should any
product with silicones even be in the shop? That shit is so persistent
you never can get rid of it.

>>windscreens, etc. on aircraft. That I HAVE used on plastic and it does
>>a great job. Also a great job on painted metal. I think I still have
>>some left and I know I have a face shield that needs to be thrown away.
>> If I can find both I'll introduce them to each other<g>

Haven't found the can yet, but haven't spent much time digging yet - nor
have you seen my garage and shop area<g>

What I did do is search on the product using Google and came up empty.
Could be that even if it does work, if you don't already have a can
you're out of luck. Still looking though<g>

Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:

>Yes. I'd never let Rain-X anywhere near the workshop.
>
>I'd also not use it on my car. I did use it once, and it worked
>pretty well. Then it started to wear and the streaking was _awful_.
>Once you've used it once, you really have to keep up using it. You
>can't stop, and you can't clean it off.

After you apply it, give it 30 min. to cure and then wipe gently with
pure ethanol. No more streaking. BTW, for those who have to scrape
frost from their windows on a regular basis, rain-x is brilliant.

Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:20:31 GMT, the inscrutable Unquestionably
>Confused <[email protected]> spake:
>>Also the ingredients are two kinds of alcohol and siloxyate (Sp?) Could
>>this be a dreaded silicone act alike? It's a stretch but should any
>>product with silicones even be in the shop? That shit is so persistent
>>you never can get rid of it.
>
>I believe it's an acrylic polymer coating, a plastic, with none of
>those silly cones.

It's full of silicone oligomers. Best to keep it away from the wood.

Ken Muldrew
[email protected]
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

I'm just guessing, but I would bet on it having some residual tensions
from the glue up that caused it to warp and bind up against the blade.
If it had been a more solid peice of wood things might have been worse.

Jason wrote:

> So Im out in the garage today working on a new router table. A few
> days ago I took two pieces of 1/2 MDF, glued them together, clamped them
> tightly and let them sit. Today I need to rip those pieces down into
> a slimmer shape. I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
> inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode! I have no idea what
> happened, but explode is about as close of a description as I can get.
> Pieces went flying everywhere, into my gut (lots of blood and bruises from
> that one, but no trip to the hospital), my wifes truck (that one is gonna
> cost me a pretty penny) and all over the garage! I was being safe around
> the saw, push sticks and hold downs and all. Has anyone ever had any
> trouble with perhaps weak spots in your wood reacting poorly to a blade?
>
> Jason
>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:22:59 -0700, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:

>BTW, the fog-x is great for bathroom mirrors, except that at my age, you WANT
>them fogged up when you get out of the shower..

You need one of these
http://www.livejournal.com/users/quercus/84634.html#cutid1

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>Speaking of face shields...
>
>After a few minutes of sawdust generation, static electricity causes
>mine to get covered in a thick layer of dust. All attempts to wipe it
>away are temporary at best.
>
>Has anyone solved this dilemma, or am I the only one with this
>problem.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim

Wipe the inside and outside with a USED fabric softner dryer sheet.

Stuart Johnson
Red Oak, Texas

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:55:03 -0500, Australopithecus scobis
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:07:15 +0000, Jason wrote:
>
>> I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
>> inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode!
>
>While we wait for answers from people who actually know what they're
>talking about, I'll wave my hands and say "steam explosion." Water in your
>glue couldn't get out and saturated nearby areas of mdf, then the sawblade
>superheated that area.

If he'd have grounded it first, that wouldn't have happened. Unless he
cleaned it with acetone.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

Jason wrote:
> the saw, push sticks and hold downs and all. Has anyone ever had any
> trouble with perhaps weak spots in your wood reacting poorly to a blade?

I have had some interesting things happen with *wood*, but MDF ain't
wood and is remarkably well-behaved, cutting wise. This is a very
bizaare story.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 01:22:33 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>>Speaking of face shields...
>>
>>After a few minutes of sawdust generation, static electricity causes
>>mine to get covered in a thick layer of dust. All attempts to wipe it
>>away are temporary at best.
>
>You obviously haven't grounded it properly. <g,d,&r>

Damn! I thought that was my job...

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

LRod wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:55:03 -0500, Australopithecus scobis
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:07:15 +0000, Jason wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
>>>inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode!
>>
>>While we wait for answers from people who actually know what they're
>>talking about, I'll wave my hands and say "steam explosion." Water in your
>>glue couldn't get out and saturated nearby areas of mdf, then the sawblade
>>superheated that area.
>
>
> If he'd have grounded it first, that wouldn't have happened. Unless he
> cleaned it with acetone.

How many times does it have to be said? The circuit breaker protects
the wiring NOT the MDF?

Any damage to the saw blade? I'm wondering about a "freak" occurrence
where you might have had a piece of metal in the MDF mix.

In article <[email protected]>, Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:

>Any damage to the saw blade? I'm wondering about a "freak" occurrence
>where you might have had a piece of metal in the MDF mix.

Yeah, I wonder about that too. Seems more likely than anything resulting from
residual moisture: the OP said he glued it up "a few days ago" which should be
plenty of time for moisture to disperse and dissipate. I've cut MDF glue-ups
within a couple hours of gluing, and never experienced anything similar.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Charlie Self says...

> Maybe. Some years ago, I had a piece of OSB disintegrate as I was
> crosscutting it on an RAS. Tore up my right hand a bit and a chunk
> large enough to matter hit me in the groin so hard it was 10 minutes
> before I realized my hand was pumping blood all over the place. What
> happen? My guess: lack of glue at the point I was cutting allow wood
> chips to catch, ride the blade and catch again in the kerf, ripping the
> kerf apart, and flinging wood all over the place. I don't know if MDF
> fibers can do the same, but I'd guess it's possible. Even a small chunk
> of metal that rides a tooth instead of getting flung would something
> similar, I'd guess. A larger metal piece might just tear the hell out
> of things more immediately (as if 1/1000th of a second is going to make
> a lot of difference).

Ouch. I feel your pain. I could see that happening more easily if
there was a ripping blade in the RAS where a crosscut or laminate blade
would have been much better. The manager of one of the Indy BORG said
that OSHA is so strict on RAS's that there's is caged to the extent that
it is almost worthless.

Charlie Self says...

> Combination blade, IIRC. No matter how bizarre an accident is, there is
> always that chance for error, or for simple chance crappy luck, that
> creates the hassle.
>
> Though it wasn't the saw's fault, I got rid of it the next week, and
> have seldom used an RAS since. Kind of silly, because it was almost
> certainly a combination of operator error--did I have the wood all the
> way against the back fence--or poor wood storage. Or both.

I've never had a problem using a RAS, though I never used one frequently
enough to lose the required healthy fear of it. They seem to be
increasingly rare these days. One would have to fall into my lap for
cheap before I would think about buying one, since the table saw can be
made to do the same tricks with some fixtures.

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:29:28 +0000,
> [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>
>>Has anyone solved this dilemma,
>
> Use an old face shield. A dirty one is less insulating, so stores less
> charge.
>
> You can also try "anti-dim" (anti-condensation) pastes wiped onto them
> - these have a similar effect. I sometimes use the stuff supplied for
> Soviet gasmasks, because it's cheap in the surplus shop.

How about fabric softener spray or tissues?

Seems to me that back in the "golden old days" of computerdom (you know,
mid'-80's) there was more fear of static in the office than, say,
acetone, static discharge in DC's, or stain on cherry, than anything
else. I recall that folks were spraying fabric softener around the
computer to defeat static. Since it supposedly softens and prevents
that dreaded "static cling" it's probably worth a try.

In article <[email protected]>, No Spam <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>
>>- You may be insulating yourself from the ground. Wear shoes with *leather*
>>soles, or go barefoot.
>
>Shiver. I went barefoot ONCE into a store area in the house where I
[snip gruesome tale]
>
>Workshops are no place to even contemplate bare feet - even for a few
>seconds.

I quite understand the hazards, but I think that thirty seconds with a sander
would be sufficient time to make the proper experiments, without posing any
significant risk.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Australopithecus scobis <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:07:15 +0000, Jason wrote:
>
>> I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
>> inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode!
>
> While we wait for answers from people who actually know what they're
> talking about, I'll wave my hands and say "steam explosion." Water in
> your glue couldn't get out and saturated nearby areas of mdf, then the
> sawblade superheated that area.
>

And it wouldn't have happened with hand tools, right? When was the last
time the dozuki kicked back?

Patriarch,
also in smartass mode...

[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:


>- You may be insulating yourself from the ground. Wear shoes with *leather*
>soles, or go barefoot.

Shiver. I went barefoot ONCE into a store area in the house where I
had some wheel rims stored. It was a 10 sec job to place a 2 ounce
bag of parts on a shelf. I must have just caught the wheel rims and
they over balanced, a 40 pound rim came down about 4 feet and landed
edge on to my feet. It smashed one of my toes, split another causing
blood to spurt all over and seriously bruised the third.

Overdosed on painkillers straight away, rushed off to hospital and it
still hurt like hell.

Workshops are no place to even contemplate bare feet - even for a few
seconds.

Larry Jaques wrote:

> I use a damp cloth on my face shield (which seems to work fine) but
> wonder if something like Rain-X or Fog-X would help not only the
> static but the smaller scratches. I'll have to try it.

I don't think that Rain-X will do anything for the scratches and might
react with the plastic. I'll have to check - for some reason I thought
that there might be a warning against using it on plastics or getting
the solution on the car's finish.

What might work better - asssuming one can find it is a product called
"Slipstream" an aircraft polish that was made to polish the plexiglass
windscreens, etc. on aircraft. That I HAVE used on plastic and it does
a great job. Also a great job on painted metal. I think I still have
some left and I know I have a face shield that needs to be thrown away.
If I can find both I'll introduce them to each other<g>

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:17:39 -0700, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:
<snip>

>I use a damp cloth on my face shield (which seems to work fine) but
>wonder if something like Rain-X or Fog-X would help not only the
>static but the smaller scratches. I'll have to try it.
>
larry.. I used rain-ex anti fog on the inside of a face shield..

good news: It worked great and never fogged...

bad news: the smell of the stuff never went away and I couldn't stand wearing
the sucker..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:17:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>I use a damp cloth on my face shield (which seems to work fine) but
>wonder if something like Rain-X or Fog-X would help not only the
>static but the smaller scratches. I'll have to try it.

I have used Pledge spray furniture polish to deal with fine scratches
in face shields and polycarbonate glasses. It works well for that, but
I can't say that I've really observed what it does as far as static
cling is concerned.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Charlie Self wrote:

>
> Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> Andy Dingley wrote:
>> > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:29:28 +0000,
>> > [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>> >
>> >>Has anyone solved this dilemma,
>> >
>> > Use an old face shield. A dirty one is less insulating, so stores
> less
>> > charge.
>> >
>> > You can also try "anti-dim" (anti-condensation) pastes wiped onto
> them
>> > - these have a similar effect. I sometimes use the stuff supplied
> for
>> > Soviet gasmasks, because it's cheap in the surplus shop.
>>
>> How about fabric softener spray or tissues?
>>
>> Seems to me that back in the "golden old days" of computerdom (you
> know,
>> mid'-80's) there was more fear of static in the office than, say,
>> acetone, static discharge in DC's, or stain on cherry, than anything
>> else. I recall that folks were spraying fabric softener around the
>> computer to defeat static. Since it supposedly softens and prevents
>> that dreaded "static cling" it's probably worth a try.
>
> Just don't use fabric softener around your microfiber cleaning cloths.
> They work by using static cling.

FWIW, fabric softener does not have much effect on the static cling of
microfiber. I made the mistake of buying a microfiber jacket a while back.
It has been fabric-softened several times and will still pull the fur off a
pushstick at 20 paces.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Speaking of face shields...

After a few minutes of sawdust generation, static electricity causes
mine to get covered in a thick layer of dust. All attempts to wipe it
away are temporary at best.

Has anyone solved this dilemma, or am I the only one with this
problem.

Thanks,

Tim

"Randy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm just guessing, but I would bet on it having some residual tensions
> from the glue up that caused it to warp and bind up against the blade. If
> it had been a more solid peice of wood things might have been worse.

Solid wood tends to kickback and tosses it at you, but I never heard of it
exploding. The fact that the fibers run in one direction and are fairly
long would help there. MDF has no fibers like that.

You mention tensions from gluing. I wonder if it absorbed the water from
the glue and swelled it making that tension?

I'm only guessing, but: Yes, similar to case hardening in solid woods.
The glue up resulted in some form of internal stresses, and when it was
sawn, the peice twisted, and bound up on the blade. If it was a peice
of solid wood there would have been a nasty case of kick back.

Another possibility is that the glue wasn't all the way dry, and bound
up on the front of the blade, resulting in the peice being driven down
into the table, and things did the "rapid spontaneous disassembly" thing.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> "Randy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I'm just guessing, but I would bet on it having some residual tensions
>>from the glue up that caused it to warp and bind up against the blade. If
>>it had been a more solid peice of wood things might have been worse.
>
>
> Solid wood tends to kickback and tosses it at you, but I never heard of it
> exploding. The fact that the fibers run in one direction and are fairly
> long would help there. MDF has no fibers like that.
>
> You mention tensions from gluing. I wonder if it absorbed the water from
> the glue and swelled it making that tension?
>
>

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:24:02 -0500, Patriarch <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Australopithecus scobis <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:07:15 +0000, Jason wrote:
>>
>>> I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
>>> inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode!
>>
>> While we wait for answers from people who actually know what they're
>> talking about, I'll wave my hands and say "steam explosion." Water in
>> your glue couldn't get out and saturated nearby areas of mdf, then the
>> sawblade superheated that area.
>>
>
>And it wouldn't have happened with hand tools, right? When was the last
>time the dozuki kicked back?
>
>Patriarch,
>also in smartass mode...

dunno.. ask Steve Knight..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:15:09 -0700, the inscrutable mac davis
<[email protected]> spake:

>On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:17:39 -0700, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com>
>wrote:
><snip>
>
>>I use a damp cloth on my face shield (which seems to work fine) but
>>wonder if something like Rain-X or Fog-X would help not only the
>>static but the smaller scratches. I'll have to try it.
>>
>larry.. I used rain-ex anti fog on the inside of a face shield..
>
>good news: It worked great and never fogged...
>
>bad news: the smell of the stuff never went away and I couldn't stand wearing
>the sucker..

What do they use in it, buffalo snot?


--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> FWIW, fabric softener does not have much effect on the static cling of
> microfiber. I made the mistake of buying a microfiber jacket a while
> back.
> It has been fabric-softened several times and will still pull the fur off
> a
> pushstick at 20 paces.

Try Static Guard spray.

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> Andy Dingley wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:29:28 +0000,
>> [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Has anyone solved this dilemma,
>>
>>
>> Use an old face shield. A dirty one is less insulating, so stores less
>> charge.
>>
>> You can also try "anti-dim" (anti-condensation) pastes wiped onto them
>> - these have a similar effect. I sometimes use the stuff supplied for
>> Soviet gasmasks, because it's cheap in the surplus shop.
>
>
> How about fabric softener spray or tissues?
>
> Seems to me that back in the "golden old days" of computerdom (you know,
> mid'-80's) there was more fear of static in the office than, say,
> acetone, static discharge in DC's, or stain on cherry, than anything
> else. I recall that folks were spraying fabric softener around the
> computer to defeat static. Since it supposedly softens and prevents
> that dreaded "static cling" it's probably worth a try.
>
>
>


I had forgotten the tricks you mentioned. :-)

We use computer monitor cleaner with an anti static component in the mix
to clean face masks..

There was a lot of build up of fine sawdust on the mask (better there
than in the lungs I suppose) - -- now the spray/cleaner gives us longer
between cleanings.

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:24:22 GMT, the inscrutable Unquestionably
Confused <[email protected]> spake:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I use a damp cloth on my face shield (which seems to work fine) but
>> wonder if something like Rain-X or Fog-X would help not only the
>> static but the smaller scratches. I'll have to try it.
>
>I don't think that Rain-X will do anything for the scratches and might
>react with the plastic. I'll have to check - for some reason I thought
>that there might be a warning against using it on plastics or getting
>the solution on the car's finish.
>
>What might work better - asssuming one can find it is a product called
>"Slipstream" an aircraft polish that was made to polish the plexiglass

Rain-X is also used on aircraft windshields, so I'm sure it's OK.
I polished my computer and reading glasses with it and the polycarb
lenses on both are fine.


>windscreens, etc. on aircraft. That I HAVE used on plastic and it does
>a great job. Also a great job on painted metal. I think I still have
>some left and I know I have a face shield that needs to be thrown away.
> If I can find both I'll introduce them to each other<g>

Bueno.


--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:22:59 -0700, mac davis
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>BTW, the fog-x is great for bathroom mirrors, except that at my age, you WANT
>>them fogged up when you get out of the shower..
>
>
> You need one of these
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/quercus/84634.html#cutid1
>

Hmmm

Maybe a group order would be in order.


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 03:07:15 +0000, Jason wrote:

> I started to slide the mdf into the blade, got about 14
> inchs into the cut when the wood seemed to explode!

While we wait for answers from people who actually know what they're
talking about, I'll wave my hands and say "steam explosion." Water in your
glue couldn't get out and saturated nearby areas of mdf, then the sawblade
superheated that area.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:29:28 +0000,
[email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:

>Has anyone solved this dilemma,

Use an old face shield. A dirty one is less insulating, so stores less
charge.

You can also try "anti-dim" (anti-condensation) pastes wiped onto them
- these have a similar effect. I sometimes use the stuff supplied for
Soviet gasmasks, because it's cheap in the surplus shop.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (chipGeek) wrote:
>Speaking of face shields...
>
>After a few minutes of sawdust generation, static electricity causes
>mine to get covered in a thick layer of dust. All attempts to wipe it
>away are temporary at best.

You obviously haven't grounded it properly. <g,d,&r>
>
>Has anyone solved this dilemma, or am I the only one with this
>problem.

Seriously, though... I've never had any problem with this. I can think of a
few things to look at, though:

- Do you have a good dust collection system in your shop? Obviously reducing
the amount of dust in the air reduces the amount of dust available to collect
on your faceshield. If you don't have good dust collection and air filtration,
that's your next tool purchase. Remember that if you don't have an air filter,
your lungs *are* the filter.

- Raise the humidity level in your shop. Dry air promotes the buildup of
static charges.

- You may be insulating yourself from the ground. Wear shoes with *leather*
soles, or go barefoot. See if that makes a difference. If so, experiment with
different types of shoes to see which make the problem better or worse.

- Your clothing may be building up static. Wear only clothing made of cotton:
no synthetics, no wool. See if that makes a difference.

- See if the same problem happens to a different person, using the same
faceshield and the same tools, in the same shop. If it doesn't, look for
differences between you and that person, particularly clothing, shoes, and
hair. Is one of you bearded and the other clean-shaven? Long hair vs. short?

Good luck...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:20:31 GMT, the inscrutable Unquestionably
Confused <[email protected]> spake:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Rain-X is also used on aircraft windshields, so I'm sure it's OK.
>> I polished my computer and reading glasses with it and the polycarb
>> lenses on both are fine.
>
>Okay as far as damaging the poly but I was more concerned that the
>Rain-X would do nothing to remove the smaller scratches you referenced.
> I took a look at the Rain-X bottle I have and this not billed as a
>cleaner but rather a topping after you have the windshield scrupuously
>cleaned with other chemicals, etc. To remove the scratches there should
>be some microabrasive component to the Rain-X, no?

Not necessarily. The film portion (left after wiping) fills in the
scratches so they pass instead of reflecting light. I was amazed at
how good my 14 year old windshield looked after the first application.
And I love the dance raindrops do on a freshly Rain-Xed windshield.
I'm on my 3rd bottle, and have bought the large size since finishing
the small one years ago. Good schtuff, Maynard.


>Also the ingredients are two kinds of alcohol and siloxyate (Sp?) Could
>this be a dreaded silicone act alike? It's a stretch but should any
>product with silicones even be in the shop? That shit is so persistent
>you never can get rid of it.

I believe it's an acrylic polymer coating, a plastic, with none of
those silly cones. That said, I'd use the pair of nitrile gloves I
keep with the Rain-X to buff the face shield.

The painter I used to work with used naphtha to remove any trace of
silicone from the cars before he painted them. You're probably
thinking ArmorAll, the bane of all it touches. The wash kid" at work
had it all over him, and he almost killed me once after he ArmorAlled
the steering wheel, gas and brake pedals in a car I had to test
drive. I got to the bottom of the driveway and my foot slipped right
off the brake pedal as I slid sideways into the street. Luckily no
trucks were coming by at the time. I just love that ArmorAll sh*t.
The kid was using ArmorAll right next to the paint shop one day and
Dennis nearly killed the guy when he saw that the job he'd just
prepped and sprayed was ruined by it. Dennis was the guy who knew his
paint gun so well that he could lay metalflake on metalflake and stand
the flake at just the right angle to match perfectly in full sunlight.
He was a true artist with a perfect eye for color, too.


>Haven't found the can yet, but haven't spent much time digging yet - nor
>have you seen my garage and shop area<g>

That's my current task in the shop: Finding countertops, benchtops,
and the bloody _floor_.


>What I did do is search on the product using Google and came up empty.
>Could be that even if it does work, if you don't already have a can
>you're out of luck. Still looking though<g>

I found Davies Klear-to-Land, Plexus, Myles Supercoat, Diamondite,
303, LP Aero Plastics 210, and AeroShell Plexicoat, but no
"Slipstream".


--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:20:31 GMT, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

>To remove the scratches there should
>be some microabrasive component to the Rain-X, no?

No, they do it the other way - there's a gap-filling aspect to it that
will infill the finer scratches and make them disappear optically,
rather than physically.

>Also the ingredients are two kinds of alcohol and siloxyate (Sp?) Could
>this be a dreaded silicone act alike?

Yes. I'd never let Rain-X anywhere near the workshop.

I'd also not use it on my car. I did use it once, and it worked
pretty well. Then it started to wear and the streaking was _awful_.
Once you've used it once, you really have to keep up using it. You
can't stop, and you can't clean it off.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:04:04 -0700, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:

>>larry.. I used rain-ex anti fog on the inside of a face shield..
>>
>>good news: It worked great and never fogged...
>>
>>bad news: the smell of the stuff never went away and I couldn't stand wearing
>>the sucker..
>
>What do they use in it, buffalo snot?

dunno, that might be better than that perfume/chemical smell..

BTW, the fog-x is great for bathroom mirrors, except that at my age, you WANT
them fogged up when you get out of the shower..


mac

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