I got my first paid woodworking gig yesterday. The condos next door are
being restored after Hurricane Ivan (9/16/2004) and they discovered that the
doors to the A/C closet need louvers. Someone else will install them, but
the contractor asked me to make the louvers for eight units to start. "Just
do it and send me a bill," he said after we'd sparred a bit, each waiting
for the other to name a price.
The louvers will be made of pine (Lowe's "select pine" matches the doors)
and I'll finish them with poly. They'll fit in a 15" wide by 23" tall
opening and be fastened in with a front trim frame. The louvers will be
pinned at the ends in a simple box. I'm still deciding on the thickness and
spacing, but I'll have to rip and plane them to thickness, and a little
round-over on the leading edge might look nice.
I want to name a price that will let me get the rest of the units in the
condo, but I don't want to leave money on the table. Their previous best
option was to buy new louvered doors at $300 each. Any advice would be
helpful, like how much per hour I might figure the job at.
Thanks,
Lionel Robinson
Pensacola, FL
Fri, Dec 2, 2005, 6:00am (EST-1) [email protected] (Lionel)
I got my first paid woodworking gig <snip> doors to the A/C closet need
louvers. <snip> asked me to make the louvers <snip> Their previous best
option was to buy new louvered doors at $300 each. Any advice would be
helpful, like how much per hour I might figure the job at.
Well, I just measured the louver in my furnace door. It's 10"X20".
I made the door, but bought the louver ready-made, cost around $5.
That's five dollars. And, there were larger ones available, for only
slightly more.
That said, I have no idea in the world how much you should charge
per hour. Too many variables involved to give a viable response. One
thing, if it's your first paying job, you sure aren't gong to be able to
charge as much as someone experienced - because if you try, then they
guy would go for the guy with the experience. That's basic.
JOAT
A rolling stone gathers no moss...unless it's a hobby he does on the
weekends.
On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 06:00:26 -0600, "Lionel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I got my first paid woodworking gig yesterday. The condos next door are
>being restored after Hurricane Ivan (9/16/2004) and they discovered that the
>doors to the A/C closet need louvers. Someone else will install them, but
>the contractor asked me to make the louvers for eight units to start.
Are these totally custom parts, parts for high-end work, or something
to fill an opening that could be slightly modified to match stock
millwork?
This contractor doesn't know that reasonably priced louver panels are
available at most any home center? He just "discovered" that a
mechanical closet typically needs ventilation?
If I were you, I might BUY them, finish them, and add an appropriate
markup. <G> After you add a genuine wage, tool expenses, and
overhead to retail material costs, it's really hard to make stock
items for less than a South American factory can crank them out.
FWIW, I recently bought unfinished pine bifold doors, the top half
louvered, with a raised panel on the bottom, at $119 RETAIL for a 30"
pair (2x15" doors), including hardware, at a Home Depot in CT. That's
$240 for (4) door sections to fill a 60" opening. Single panel,
non-bifold louvered doors were much less.
Are you guys getting ripped after the hurricane?
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:R%[email protected]...
>
> How much do you want to earn? While you don't want to leave money on the
> table, too high will cost you the rest of the job. Do a set, figure the
> hourly rate you'd like and hand him a bill. If he balks, tell him you
have
> figured how to save time on future sets now that you completed one. If he
> smiles, tell him you'd like to do them all at that price but you'd have to
> invest in some new tooling that would have to be added in.
>
>
Smooth. You crafty devil you. It must be the sausage...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:OiZjf.3$5V1.0@trnddc02...
>
> FWIW, if he will accept louvers at 45 degrees rather than the more
> customary 60 degrees you can save considerable work. Ripping a 3/4
> board at 45 degrees will give pieces 1" wide. If you have a drum or
> wide belt sander, sanding the long louver strips to a uniform thickness
> before cutting them to length.is easy...about the only hand work would
> be knocking off the sharp edge on the acute angle. Could be prefinished
> before cutting to length too.
>
> Making 45 degree slots the width of the louvers at the spacing desired
> in a 1" wide board will give them the louvers a nice home. Mounting the
> lot in a 1" dado or rabbet in the door frame is duck soup.
Thanks for the good tips.
Lionel
In article <R%[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Lionel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > I want to name a price that will let me get the rest of the units in the
> > condo, but I don't want to leave money on the table. Their previous best
> > option was to buy new louvered doors at $300 each. Any advice would be
> > helpful, like how much per hour I might figure the job at.
> >
>
> How much do you want to earn? While you don't want to leave money on the
> table, too high will cost you the rest of the job. Do a set, figure the
> hourly rate you'd like and hand him a bill. If he balks, tell him you have
> figured how to save time on future sets now that you completed one. If he
> smiles, tell him you'd like to do them all at that price but you'd have to
> invest in some new tooling that would have to be added in.
>
>
Good advice but I would go further. Write a letter of agreement so that
you both know, in writing, what you expect from each other and have him
sign and return one copy. As a "Lone Ranger" in business, this is my
best advice: insist on money in advance, in your case half of what the
job is. If you don't have a clear idea now of what the job's financial
specs are, and you communicate this to him, then I think you're inviting
these possible disasters: l, he'll try to pay you less than you agreed
because he says.... 2, he won't pay anything, but he will take your
work with the promise he'll pay you when the cash flow flows better.
It's great that you want to dip your feet into business's muddy waters,
but, IMHO, much worse than losing the time and money is lying awake at
night thinking of how you let yourself get ripped off. You're on a well-
traveled road, look at the wrecks to either side of you and read the
sign posts.
It is my sense that you don't know this contractor in a business
context, nor anything about his performance in paying bills.
Hope this helps, and please don't be offended by my blunt reply.
Lionel wrote:
> The louvers will be made of pine (Lowe's "select pine" matches the
> doors) and I'll finish them with poly. They'll fit in a 15" wide by
> 23" tall opening and be fastened in with a front trim frame. The
> louvers will be pinned at the ends in a simple box. I'm still
> deciding on the thickness and spacing, but I'll have to rip and plane
> them to thickness, and a little round-over on the leading edge might
> look nice.
FWIW, if he will accept louvers at 45 degrees rather than the more
customary 60 degrees you can save considerable work. Ripping a 3/4
board at 45 degrees will give pieces 1" wide. If you have a drum or
wide belt sander, sanding the long louver strips to a uniform thickness
before cutting them to length.is easy...about the only hand work would
be knocking off the sharp edge on the acute angle. Could be prefinished
before cutting to length too.
Making 45 degree slots the width of the louvers at the spacing desired
in a 1" wide board will give them the louvers a nice home. Mounting the
lot in a 1" dado or rabbet in the door frame is duck soup.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Lionel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I want to name a price that will let me get the rest of the units in the
> condo, but I don't want to leave money on the table. Their previous best
> option was to buy new louvered doors at $300 each. Any advice would be
> helpful, like how much per hour I might figure the job at.
>
How much do you want to earn? While you don't want to leave money on the
table, too high will cost you the rest of the job. Do a set, figure the
hourly rate you'd like and hand him a bill. If he balks, tell him you have
figured how to save time on future sets now that you completed one. If he
smiles, tell him you'd like to do them all at that price but you'd have to
invest in some new tooling that would have to be added in.
Idunno, but think about this. Louvers are a PITA to build and more so to
finish. Spend some time and build a jig to make it easier. Do not charge him
the same price for the 1st eight as the rest of the job.Make this clear
when you bill him for the 1st 8. Explain that you had to spend time and
material for the setups which would not be necessary for the rest of the
job. It's fair; it covers your arse, and gives him an incentive to give you
the rest of the job.
-Steve
"Lionel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got my first paid woodworking gig yesterday. The condos next door are
> being restored after Hurricane Ivan (9/16/2004) and they discovered that
the
> doors to the A/C closet need louvers. Someone else will install them, but
> the contractor asked me to make the louvers for eight units to start.
"Just
> do it and send me a bill," he said after we'd sparred a bit, each waiting
> for the other to name a price.
>
> The louvers will be made of pine (Lowe's "select pine" matches the doors)
> and I'll finish them with poly. They'll fit in a 15" wide by 23" tall
> opening and be fastened in with a front trim frame. The louvers will be
> pinned at the ends in a simple box. I'm still deciding on the thickness
and
> spacing, but I'll have to rip and plane them to thickness, and a little
> round-over on the leading edge might look nice.
>
> I want to name a price that will let me get the rest of the units in the
> condo, but I don't want to leave money on the table. Their previous best
> option was to buy new louvered doors at $300 each. Any advice would be
> helpful, like how much per hour I might figure the job at.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lionel Robinson
> Pensacola, FL
>
>
>
"Lionel" wrote in message
> insurance. There are still people who haven't been able to get their
> insurance companies to pay.
Hopefully you will as surprised and as pleased, someday in the distant
future, as I was a few months (2005) back to get a check from the insurance
company for "unrecoverable depreciation", or something like that, on the
house we lost in the floodwaters of Allison ... back in 2001!
My hat's off to you ... you've been through something that I wouldn't wish
on an enemy.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/05
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 06:00:26 -0600, "Lionel" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> This contractor doesn't know that reasonably priced louver panels are
> available at most any home center?
He couldn't find them to fit the section he wants to put them in.
>He just "discovered" that a
> mechanical closet typically needs ventilation?
The original plan was to vent through the wall, but the inspector said they
couldn't do that because the electric water heater was there and they
couldn't vent through that space. Remember that these are the guys who
redesigned the layout of the kitchen, changed the plumbing and wiring
layout, and forgot to change the cabinet order. Their motto is, Anything
worth doing is worth doing over.
> Are you guys getting ripped after the hurricane?
If we're not careful. I originally hired a general contractor to restore
the house (on our son's insistent advice, with him apparently thinking we're
too old to do anything ourselves). Five months later he hadn't finished the
estimate and didn't want to sign a contract just yet. He hadn't even pulled
a permit. When I told him to forget it, I'd do it myself, he sent me a
legal-sounding letter mentioning liens and saying I'd cost him over $23,000
in lost overhead and profit, but he'd settle for $12,000. I ignored it, got
another dropping the demand to $4,200, ignored that and haven't heard from
him since. So far, by doing a lot of the work myself I've saved enough to
rebuild my shop (five feet of salt water with lots of swirling, and it was
two weeks before I could get in to start salvaging things) and upgrade the
1940 house so we're getting a new house discount on the homeowners
insurance. There are still people who haven't been able to get their
insurance companies to pay.