Planing the end grain of a pencil sized tree core

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:12:58 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:55:28 AM UTC-5, Larry Kraus wrote:
>=20
> >=20
> > A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very=20
> > well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slo=
t=20
> > as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hol=
d=20
> > the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a=20
> > slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.
>=20
> Is getting/having more than one core sample possible? I'd try Larry's (v=
ery sharp plane, etal.) suggestion and, maybe, wet one sample... see if tha=
t softens the fibers for better/best/easier planing. Slow, not fast, plan=
ing strokes?
>=20
> If the log/tree has some significant age to it, I'd like to see a pic of =
the log/tree/snag. I enjoy "visiting" old grandpa trees/snags and the lik=
e. When I come across old magestic(?) trees, I sometimes imagine what stor=
ies/life they could tell or have experienced.
>=20
> Sonny

Here is a 250+ Sugar Maple tree
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3D7A0E1BB07CBA3080!223112&authkey=3D!=
ABK_ci76c3PJGC0&v=3D3&ithint=3Dphoto%2cJPG

A 239 year old live oak
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3D7A0E1BB07CBA3080!223111&authkey=3D!=
ANIB53UnGZotD0g&v=3D3&ithint=3Dphoto%2cJPG

A 300+ year old Green Ash
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3D7A0E1BB07CBA3080!223110&authkey=3D!=
APWdyhw71fICx6Q&v=3D3&ithint=3Dphoto%2cJPG

And a 225 year old Eastern Red Cedar
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3D7A0E1BB07CBA3080!223113&authkey=3D!=
ACMVRPrFKLrHQH0&v=3D3&ithint=3Dphoto%2cJPG

[email protected] wrote:

>Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>
>Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
>http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg'

Dave Picciuto got pretty good results using both sandpaper and hand plane:

https://makesomething.tv/sites/default/files/addimage/cover02_0.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK7_F4kySZU

On 6/12/2016 6:26 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
>> sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
>> to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
>> sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
>> electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
>> when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
>> then please let me know.
>
> Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?
>
>

A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very
well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot
as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold
the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a
slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason
> I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and
> provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells
> wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to
> what I am trying to achieve:
> http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.png
> http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A

Easy to duplicate. Take two sticks and place them on either side of the
work to be planed. Somehow (ok, this part isn't so easy) hold the core
steady and run the plane along with the smooth parts of the plane running
on the sticks. A block plane would be ideal, but a good jack plane will
be of some use.

Lee Valley has a variety of planes that are well worth looking at, from
the really inexpensive miniature planes to the unbelievably (until you
try it) expensive ones. The most important thing is getting a sharp
iron. If you can sharpen, you're all set. If not, well that's another
thread or 20... I'll just say for a standard plane iron the Work Sharp is
as close to "no experience but nicely sharp" as you can get.

If you actually want to save the slice, that will take a little more
effort.

Puckdropper

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, Puckdroper
> wrote:
>> Easy to duplicate. Take two sticks and place them on either side of
>> the work to be planed. Somehow (ok, this part isn't so easy) hold
>> the core steady and run the plane along with the smooth parts of the
>> plane running on the sticks. A block plane would be ideal, but a
>> good jack plane will be of some use.
>>
>> Lee Valley has a variety of planes that are well worth looking at,
>> from the really inexpensive miniature planes to the unbelievably
>> (until you try it) expensive ones. The most important thing is
>> getting a sharp iron. If you can sharpen, you're all set. If not,
>> well that's another thread or 20... I'll just say for a standard
>> plane iron the Work Sharp is as close to "no experience but nicely
>> sharp" as you can get.
>>
>> If you actually want to save the slice, that will take a little more
>> effort.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
> I have already made a vice for the core. Any recommendations on the
> size, price, brand, or angle of the plane? I need to be sure that the
> plane will cut the wood without sacrificing too much money to find out
> it does not work as well as sandpaper.
>

I'd go with the block plane. I'd look for one with easy depth
adjustments, some are hard to adjust so woodworkers use a mallet. This
isn't quite as easy as getting a fine adjustment with a proper depth
screw.

You can pick up planes to refurbish for around $5 or $10, or get one
ready to go from Lee Valley for around $20 to $500. It might help to e-
mail Lee Valley and ask which specific plane they're recommend. There's
some low-angle planes that might be worth looking at. I haven't tested
their return policy, but others have said it's really good.

You'll find the angle of the plane tends to set itself naturally. It's
probably on the order of 20-30 degrees, but just go with whatever gives
you the right feel and results.

Puckdropper

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> It seems that I would need a 13000 grit stone to sharpen the blade
> which would cost me 150 dollars, totaling to about 250-300 dollars.Any
> ideas on another method that would involve disposable razor blades?

Like Sonny said, you don't need such a stone. However, let's take a look
at your razor blade solution: It's the same basic setup as the plane on
sticks, only you need to tape or otherwise round the surfaces that will
be running on the two sticks. It's probably going to be harder to
control, unless you rig up something to hold the razor blade.

You might do ok with a "chisel" style X-acto blade and a wide running
surface on only one side, but X-acto blades are not stiff and will flex,
which can result in poor cuts. (The chisel style blades have only a
single bevel, the standard #11 blades have a double bevel. Use the bevel
up.) The chisel blades that fit the most common handle will probably be
too small for a diagonal cut, so look for wider blades. They'll probably
require a different handle, if you decide to use it.

Be sure to wax the sticks, less surface friction will help a lot. You
don't need special wax, just some candle wax will be good enough.

Puckdropper

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> >On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil=
sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to cou=
nt very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which cl=
ogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rath=
er than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If a=
nyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
> >> >
> >> >Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and =
smooth surface on:
> >> >http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
> >>=20
> >> I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
> >> its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
> >> solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
> >> of thing. You might try your state's extension service.
> >
> >
> >I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after =
sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if =
the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.
>=20
> But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
> the grain?

For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason I wan=
t to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and provide a b=
etter image when looking at rings that are only a few cells wide. For those=
who might be confused here is a pictures similar to what I am trying to ac=
hieve: http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.pn=
g
http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 3:47:08 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
>
> stabilize the wood with acrylic resin in a vacuum pot
> then slice it

I've never heard of a vacuum pot before. Is that needed to stabilize the wood in resin?

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
> Three things I'd try:
> Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. Then,
> with a heavy workbench vise, you can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
> Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or three with a card scraper.
> Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a steel plywood blade in
> a table saw.
> Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a straight carbide router bit.
>
> Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have ahead of
> you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick", like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?

I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is perpendicular to the length.

Sonny

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 6:53:35 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:01:33 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> >On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote=
:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> >Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pen=
cil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to =
count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which=
clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch r=
ather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? I=
f anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even a=
nd smooth surface on:
> >> >> >http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
> >> >>=20
> >> >> I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
> >> >> its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
> >> >> solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sor=
t
> >> >> of thing. You might try your state's extension service.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only aft=
er sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains =
if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.
> >>=20
> >> But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
> >> the grain?
> >
> >For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust.=20
>=20
> I'd think the stain would help with that (again, perhaps not wood
> stain).

I used a phloroglucinol dye to distinguish the lignified wood from the non-=
lignified wood. Still, I need to be able to slice the core to remove the pa=
ins of going through all of that sandpaper.
>=20
> >The reason I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, mon=
ey, and provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few ce=
lls wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to wha=
t I am trying to achieve: http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotost=
recke-1/Picture2.png
> >http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A=20
>=20
> Yes, that looks like a microtome that someone else was talking about.
> I haven't seen one that long.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:43:18 -0400, krw <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12 Jun 2016 23:16:36 GMT, Puckdropper
><puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason
>>> I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and
>>> provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells
>>> wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to
>>> what I am trying to achieve:
>>> http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.png
>>> http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A
>>
>>Easy to duplicate. Take two sticks and place them on either side of the
>>work to be planed. Somehow (ok, this part isn't so easy) hold the core
>>steady and run the plane along with the smooth parts of the plane running
>>on the sticks. A block plane would be ideal, but a good jack plane will
>>be of some use.
>
>How about a slot routed in a larger board? Maybe with a fence to keep
>the plane in a channel so it can (eventually) run on it's
>(non-cutting) edges.
>>
>>Lee Valley has a variety of planes that are well worth looking at, from
>>the really inexpensive miniature planes to the unbelievably (until you
>>try it) expensive ones. The most important thing is getting a sharp
>>iron. If you can sharpen, you're all set. If not, well that's another
>>thread or 20... I'll just say for a standard plane iron the Work Sharp is
>>as close to "no experience but nicely sharp" as you can get.
>>
>>If you actually want to save the slice, that will take a little more
>>effort.
>
>I think the only problem with this whole idea is that it's a
>cross-grain sample and not so easy to plane. Maybe a router or maybe
>even a planer (with a slotted boards such as above)?

Even glue the sample into the slot before planing? This would give it
support so it wouldn't come apart. You'd then have a pretty plaque
with the growth rings to hang on the wall. ;-)

<[email protected]> wrote:
> Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
> sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to
> count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper,
> which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner
> catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a
> microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>
> Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
> http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
>

Have you sharpened your core sampler lately. Hone its cutting surface.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 4:36:44 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:

> I have already made a vice for the core. Any recommendations on the size, price, brand, or angle of the plane?

The intended function of a low-angle block plane is to cut endgrain; it should be good
for the intended task. If you use sacrificial wood jaws, a tight-mouth smooth plane (#4) ought
also to work, if you hold the iron at a slight diagonal to the cut. The bed of the plane ought
to ride on something other than the work, but that's what the wood surround is good for.

On 6/13/2016 7:21 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> It seems that I would need a 13000 grit stone to sharpen the blade which would cost me 150 dollars, totaling to about 250-300 dollars.Any ideas on another method that would involve disposable razor blades?

Surgical scalpel, with disposable blades ... Xacto knife in lieu thereof.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:55:28 AM UTC-4, Larry Kraus wrote:
> On 6/12/2016 6:26 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
> >> sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
> >> to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
> >> sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
> >> electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
> >> when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
> >> then please let me know.
> >
> > Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?
> >
> >
>
> A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very
> well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot
> as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold
> the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a
> slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you have any recommendations for a brand or type or hand plane I should use?

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>
>Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
>http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
of thing. You might try your state's extension service.

It seems that I would need a 13000 grit stone to sharpen the blade which would cost me 150 dollars, totaling to about 250-300 dollars.Any ideas on another method that would involve disposable razor blades?

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:16:38 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason
> > I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and
> > provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells
> > wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to
> > what I am trying to achieve:
> > http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.png
> > http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A
>
> Easy to duplicate. Take two sticks and place them on either side of the
> work to be planed. Somehow (ok, this part isn't so easy) hold the core
> steady and run the plane along with the smooth parts of the plane running
> on the sticks. A block plane would be ideal, but a good jack plane will
> be of some use.
>
> Lee Valley has a variety of planes that are well worth looking at, from
> the really inexpensive miniature planes to the unbelievably (until you
> try it) expensive ones. The most important thing is getting a sharp
> iron. If you can sharpen, you're all set. If not, well that's another
> thread or 20... I'll just say for a standard plane iron the Work Sharp is
> as close to "no experience but nicely sharp" as you can get.
>
> If you actually want to save the slice, that will take a little more
> effort.
>
> Puckdropper

I have already made a vice for the core. Any recommendations on the size, price, brand, or angle of the plane? I need to be sure that the plane will cut the wood without sacrificing too much money to find out it does not work as well as sandpaper.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 6:27:03 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
> > sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
> > to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
> > sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
> > electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
> > when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
> > then please let me know.
>
> Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?

Is a microtome a place where really short people a buried?

Oh wait...that's not a b. ;-)

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 7:21:17 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> It seems that I would need a 13000 grit stone to sharpen the blade which =
would cost me 150 dollars, totaling to about 250-300 dollars.Any ideas on a=
nother method that would involve disposable razor blades?

You don't need that fine of grit to sharpen any average/reasonable quality =
blade and sharpen it well enough to shave your rod. As for as grit, your l=
ocal auto parts store has 2000 or 3000 grit sand paper ($5), for honing an =
already sharpened planer blade. Securing the sand paper to a glass pane, o=
r a scrap piece of smooth granite, will do fine, for honing the blade.

Might want to wet (several - 10 drops of water) the sand paper, when honing=
.

Sonny

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:55:28 AM UTC-5, Larry Kraus wrote:

>=20
> A SHARP hand plane, adjusted to take light shavings, will work very=20
> well. To avoid breakage, I'd make a jig to support the core. Dado a slot=
=20
> as wide as the core in a board, but shallower, with an end stop, to hold=
=20
> the core in place as you plane off the protruding top. Or build up a=20
> slot along a core by tacking slightly thinner strips of wood alongside.

Is getting/having more than one core sample possible? I'd try Larry's (ver=
y sharp plane, etal.) suggestion and, maybe, wet one sample... see if that =
softens the fibers for better/best/easier planing. Slow, not fast, planin=
g strokes?

If the log/tree has some significant age to it, I'd like to see a pic of th=
e log/tree/snag. I enjoy "visiting" old grandpa trees/snags and the like.=
When I come across old magestic(?) trees, I sometimes imagine what storie=
s/life they could tell or have experienced.

Sonny

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>=20
> >Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil si=
zed, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count =
very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs=
up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather =
than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyo=
ne knows of a better method then please let me know.
> >
> >Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smo=
oth surface on:
> >http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
>=20
> I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
> its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
> solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
> of thing. You might try your state's extension service.


I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after san=
ding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the=
sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
> > Three things I'd try:
> > Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. Then,
> > with a heavy workbench vise, you can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
> > Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or three with a card scraper.
> > Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a steel plywood blade in
> > a table saw.
> > Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a straight carbide router bit.
> >
> > Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have ahead of
> > you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.
>
> This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick", like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?
>
> I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is perpendicular to the length.
>
> Sonny

That's correct. Wit3rd, are you thinking of encasing the core in wax and then shaving off small sections with a planner?

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> >> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
> >>> Three things I'd try:
> >>> Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and
> >>> fill with paraffin wax. Then, with a heavy workbench vise, you
> >>> can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
> >>> Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or
> >>> three with a card scraper.
> >>> Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a
> >>> steel plywood blade in a table saw.
> >>> Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a
> >>> straight carbide router bit.
> >>>
> >>> Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have
> >>> ahead of
> >>> you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.
> >>
> >> This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick",
> >> like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?
> >>
> >> I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a
> >> core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is
> >> perpendicular to the length.
> >>
> >> Sonny
> >
> > That's correct. Wit3rd, are you thinking of encasing the core in wax
> > and then shaving off small sections with a planner?
>
> Ah, the LENGTH. In that case, forget the microtome et al, a hand plane will
> do the job but it must be sharp. For what you want, I'd think a block plane
> would be the thing, just rig some way of keeping the core immobile.

Ok thanks, i'll look into that.

On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:57:12 AM UTC-7, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
> > Three things I'd try:
> > Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. ...

> This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick", like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?
>
> I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick,

AH, a light dawns. I'd still recommend the same thing, but for a 16" long item, you get the hole
by grooving two boards and fastening 'em around the stick.

Maybe a bead of hotmelt glue or construction adhesive would be better than wax...

Three things I'd try:
Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and fill with paraffin wax. Then,
with a heavy workbench vise, you can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or three with a card scraper.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a steel plywood blade in
a table saw.
Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a straight carbide router bit.

Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have ahead of
you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>> >
>> >Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
>> >http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
>>
>> I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
>> its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
>> solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
>> of thing. You might try your state's extension service.
>
>
>I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.

But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
the grain?

[email protected] wrote:
> Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil
> sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying
> to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using
> sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or
> electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface
> when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method
> then please let me know.

Got a microtome? Or a sharp knife or chisel? Razor blade?

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
[email protected] wrote:

> when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method

stabilize the wood with acrylic resin in a vacuum pot
then slice it

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 11:57:03 AM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
>>> Three things I'd try:
>>> Bore a hole in a wood scrap, put the stick in and wedge it, and
>>> fill with paraffin wax. Then, with a heavy workbench vise, you
>>> can hold it still for a swipe or two with a sharp plane.
>>> Low-angle (block) plane would be suitable, maybe a final pass or
>>> three with a card scraper.
>>> Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a crosscut pass with a
>>> steel plywood blade in a table saw.
>>> Hole, wedge, wax again, only this time make a light pass with a
>>> straight carbide router bit.
>>>
>>> Planing a loose knot is a close approximation to the task you have
>>> ahead of
>>> you; making it a NOT-loose knot would be a high priority.
>>
>> This sounds like instructions for planing the end of his "stick",
>> like the end grain of a dowel. Am I thinking correctly?
>>
>> I think he wants to plane along the length of the stick, which is a
>> core sample, which the end grain is along its length, is
>> perpendicular to the length.
>>
>> Sonny
>
> That's correct. Wit3rd, are you thinking of encasing the core in wax
> and then shaving off small sections with a planner?

Ah, the LENGTH. In that case, forget the microtome et al, a hand plane will
do the job but it must be sharp. For what you want, I'd think a block plane
would be the thing, just rig some way of keeping the core immobile.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
[email protected] wrote:

> I've never heard of a vacuum pot before. Is that needed to stabilize
> the wood in resin?

it forces the resin in to the wood

plenty of videos

of course you can diy a vacuum rig

On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 17:21:13 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>It seems that I would need a 13000 grit stone to sharpen the blade which would cost me 150 dollars, totaling to about 250-300 dollars.Any ideas on another method that would involve disposable razor blades?

A grafting technique set the twig in wax use a scapel to slice at an
angle, a back and forth motion is best. Take a few twigs from bushes
trees and practice.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:01:33 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>> >> >
>> >> >Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
>> >> >http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
>> >>
>> >> I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
>> >> its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
>> >> solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
>> >> of thing. You might try your state's extension service.
>> >
>> >
>> >I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.
>>
>> But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
>> the grain?
>
>For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust.

I'd think the stain would help with that (again, perhaps not wood
stain).

>The reason I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to what I am trying to achieve: http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.png
>http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A

Yes, that looks like a microtome that someone else was talking about.
I haven't seen one that long.

On 12 Jun 2016 23:16:36 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust. The reason
>> I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and
>> provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells
>> wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to
>> what I am trying to achieve:
>> http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.png
>> http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A
>
>Easy to duplicate. Take two sticks and place them on either side of the
>work to be planed. Somehow (ok, this part isn't so easy) hold the core
>steady and run the plane along with the smooth parts of the plane running
>on the sticks. A block plane would be ideal, but a good jack plane will
>be of some use.

How about a slot routed in a larger board? Maybe with a fence to keep
the plane in a channel so it can (eventually) run on it's
(non-cutting) edges.
>
>Lee Valley has a variety of planes that are well worth looking at, from
>the really inexpensive miniature planes to the unbelievably (until you
>try it) expensive ones. The most important thing is getting a sharp
>iron. If you can sharpen, you're all set. If not, well that's another
>thread or 20... I'll just say for a standard plane iron the Work Sharp is
>as close to "no experience but nicely sharp" as you can get.
>
>If you actually want to save the slice, that will take a little more
>effort.

I think the only problem with this whole idea is that it's a
cross-grain sample and not so easy to plane. Maybe a router or maybe
even a planer (with a slotted boards such as above)?

On 6/11/2016 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>
> Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
> http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg

I would try a a quality card scraper before I'd try a hand plane.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,310&p=41069


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On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:38:40 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:

>On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 6:53:35 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:01:33 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 5:53:39 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:43:43 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 11:24:00 PM UTC-4, krw wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Does anyone know if it is possible to make a flat surface on a pencil sized, 16" long piece of end grain using a hand planer? I am trying to count very faint tree rings on a sugar maple without using sandpaper, which clogs up the pores with saw dust. Would a hand or electric planner catch rather than cut, or create a rough surface when viewed under a microscope? If anyone knows of a better method then please let me know.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Here is a link to an image of what I am trying to create an even and smooth surface on:
>> >> >> >http://www.fortedwards.org/projects/tree-no1d.jpg
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would think that a stain would help see the growth rings. That's
>> >> >> its purpose, though perhaps a woodworking stain isn't the best
>> >> >> solution. Biologists have a number of stains they use for this sort
>> >> >> of thing. You might try your state's extension service.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >I have used stains to help clarify the tree rings, but it is only after sanding to 1200 grit that I am able to see the rings. I only use stains if the sanding is not adequate enough which is rarely the case.
>> >>
>> >> But you said you couldn't see the rings because the sanding plugged up
>> >> the grain?
>> >
>> >For most species I can see the rings despite the saw dust.
>>
>> I'd think the stain would help with that (again, perhaps not wood
>> stain).
>
>I used a phloroglucinol dye to distinguish the lignified wood from the non-lignified wood. Still, I need to be able to slice the core to remove the pains of going through all of that sandpaper.

Use Granat. ;-) Seriously, how often do you do this?

>> >The reason I want to cut rather than sand is that it will save time, money, and provide a better image when looking at rings that are only a few cells wide. For those who might be confused here is a pictures similar to what I am trying to achieve: http://www.wsl.ch/medien/news/video_dendro/fotostrecke-1/Picture2.png
>> >http://cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/21618D4C56826992205E1A
>>
>> Yes, that looks like a microtome that someone else was talking about.
>> I haven't seen one that long.