I am beginning to refinish a set of chairs and all of
the joints need re-glued. They appear to have been
glued with typical yellow glue. Will yellow glue
adhere to itself? I can sand the joints but it is
unlikely that I will be able to remove the old stuff
as it is soaked in. I would like this glue job to
last for quite a while. Any tips?
I'd add another .02 to what Lou said.
Try Tractor Supply, or your local Vet supply store for syringes.
If the mix is 3:1 a 20cc and 60cc set work perfectly.
Just draw the same marks from each and mix.
2:1 4:1 or 5:1 take a little more thinking.
This is by far the best most accurate way to mix small quantities.
Way better than the ratio pumps (for small quantities!)
I keep a set of syringes with West resin and fast catalyst -
kept full, with a cap to keep them clean, sitting on the plunger.
When I need some epoxy, I just squirt out the amount needed and mix.
No need to fill syringes, or measuring cups.
Well, it works for me... ymmv
Richard
[email protected] wrote:
> I am putting the BS epoxy to another test now. I am making a set of
> kitchen knives and as a test I am using the 20 minute stuff on the
> first test model to see how well it will take the hard use in the
> kitchen (by me!) and the exposure to detergents, heat and abrasion
> from cleaning as well as acids etc. from food. We'll see.....
> What I might do to make really sure this stuff is good is put the
> dishwasher on low heat and run a block of wood with a piece of metal
> epoxied on it for a few cycles. The boys on the knife making forum
> did that in "Glue Wars II", and it sure separated the wanna be
> adhesives from the good stuff.
Never, never, *NEVER* run wood handled knives through a dishwasher! The
very thought makes me shudder.
When I lived in Mexico, I used to go to the supermarket with my wife. The
market was more like a department store with a food section so I'd browse
while she shopped.
One item of interest was knives...they had many styles/sizes at very
inexpensive prices and I wound up with numerous. They weren't great knives
but weren't bad either except for the handles on most - mahogany but rough
and crude.
After returning to the US, the wife was away for a while so decided to
replace the handles as a pastime. Drilled out the rivets, bought a few
blocks of lignum vitae, brass rivets and a step drill for same. After
cutting the blocks into appropriately sized blanks, the blanks were epoxied
and riveted to the tang. Some tangs were full, others partial. After
shaping, the handles were finished with polyurethane. That was 16 years ago
and all knives are pristine (or close to it) after frequent use.
The knives are cleaned with a soft brush and a bit of detergent, wiped dry
and stood upright or at an angle for a while so that any remaining water
runs downward, then stored in a knife rack in a drawer.
The reason I used epoxy was to keep water from working down between tang and
wood. I don't know how well epoxy without rivets would work; personally, I
*like* rivets :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
The typical approach in this situation would be epoxy. It will stick
to anything like old glue, wood, etc. It also has gap filling ability
and yellow wood glue requires direct surface contact of mated parts
and in old jopints that isn't always a given.
On Aug 20, 6:39=A0pm, sbnjhfty <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am beginning to refinish a set of chairs and all of
> the joints need re-glued. =A0They appear to have been
> glued with typical yellow glue. =A0Will yellow glue
> adhere to itself? =A0I can sand the joints but it is
> unlikely that I will be able to remove the old stuff
> as it is soaked in. =A0I would like this glue job to
> last for quite a while. =A0 Any tips?
On Aug 20, 11:42=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The typical approach in this situation would be epoxy. It will stick
> to anything like old glue, wood, etc. It also has gap filling ability
> and yellow wood glue requires direct surface contact of mated parts
> and in old jopints that isn't always a given.
What he said. Clean the parts and joints to be reattached well, then
try the 20 minute stuff from the hobby store.
You still need to let it set up overnight, but it will stay put in an
hour or so.
Robert
On Aug 21, 2:17=A0pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Case steak knives "with wood handles" in the dish washer for the last
> > 29 years. No worse for wear.
>
> I'm guessing you've had steak at least once a year, right? =A0If so, what=
is
> the miracle finish on the handles, fused porcelain?
I'll bet it's something like Buck's Dymondwood, which is a series of
wood layers bonded under huge amounts of pressure with resin to make
it wood colored resin.
> You just couldn't hear its cry of anguish over the dishwasher noise. =A0I=
'm
> surprised it didn't run away from home :)
LMAO!! No kidding!
And dadiOH, I tried the link I posted and it did indeed not work. But
if you are interested, do a normal Google web search and paste this
in:
bladeforums.com glue wars II
It will come up with the Glue Wars 2 thread, and directly underneath,
the original Glue Wars thread. You will see a lot of favorites there
and be surprised at how badly they perform (including an old favorite
of mine for 25 years, JB Weld).
You will also be surprised at how much time, effort and care he puts
into his tests.
Robert
[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 21, 4:16 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> What I might do to make really sure this stuff is good is put the
>>> dishwasher on low heat and run a block of wood with a piece of metal
>>> epoxied on it for a few cycles. The boys on the knife making forum
>>> did that in "Glue Wars II", and it sure separated the wanna be
>>> adhesives from the good stuff.
>>
>> Never, never, *NEVER* run wood handled knives through a dishwasher!
>> The very thought makes me shudder.
>
> OK... alright... calm down.... nothing to see here.... ;^)
>
> Read carefully; I never said I would run one of my knives through the
> dishwasher. Heresy!
Oh, OK. In your OP you mentioned, "exposure to detergents, heat and
abrasion" and my overactive mind equated that with "dishwasher" and I felt
duty bound to try to save the poor helpless knife.
_______________
>
> I don't know if this link will work,
Nope
> but if it doesn't, can use Google
> to search Bladeforums.com, using "Glue Wars II" as your search.
I will
______________
> No knives will be harmed in the testing of these adhesives. ;^)
I'll rest easy tonight, pard :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Aug 21, 3:26=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> There are only 3-4 manufacturers of epoxy base resin (Part A) world
> wide.
>
> Shell, Dow, Ciba and maybe another one.
>
> The magic is with the formulators that manufacture the hardeners (Part
> B) of which there are hundreds worldwide.
I never knew that. I thought the big guys were manufacturers of their
own resins and hardeners. I did know that Bob Smith Industries make
several different formulas and sells them as custom products in their
epoxy lines as well as their CA stuff.
Their CA products are used by the military to repair their RC spy
planes and drones by the military as well.
> Check around for an industrial chemical distributor and ask if they
> sell Dicaperl, HP-500.
Thanks for the tip.
> It is perlite mined in Colorado, is sold in 30# bags (4 cubic ft) for
> less than $25 here in SoCal.
>
> One bag will give you enough filler for probably at least 5-10 years.
Uh... probably about 50 years. I laughed when I saw the amounts of
resin you buy. Gallon buckets? 55 gallon drums? I wouldn't use that
in my lifetime!
> Perfect application for fairing putty.
>
> Break joint apart, butter with fairing putty, reassemble, clamp
> lightly, then remove ooze with a stick and get a beer.
Now that sounds like my kind of repair!
Robert
On 2009-08-22, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why would you store your knives cutting side down? Or am I seeing it
> wrong?
Basic safety!
What if drawer is open, you have your hand over it, and another person
or falling jar/can knocks your hand down or you fall and put your hand
out to catch yourself. I can think of more scenarios. Sounds rare,
but it's not.
nb
Leon wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> I am putting the BS epoxy to another test now. I am making a set of
>>> kitchen knives and as a test I am using the 20 minute stuff on the
>>> first test model to see how well it will take the hard use in the
>>> kitchen (by me!) and the exposure to detergents, heat and abrasion
>>> from cleaning as well as acids etc. from food. We'll see.....
>>
>>> What I might do to make really sure this stuff is good is put the
>>> dishwasher on low heat and run a block of wood with a piece of metal
>>> epoxied on it for a few cycles. The boys on the knife making forum
>>> did that in "Glue Wars II", and it sure separated the wanna be
>>> adhesives from the good stuff.
>>
>> Never, never, *NEVER* run wood handled knives through a dishwasher! The
>> very thought makes me shudder.
>
>
> Actually it all depends on the finish. I have been washing a set of
> Case steak knives "with wood handles" in the dish washer for the last
> 29 years. No worse for wear.
I'm guessing you've had steak at least once a year, right? If so, what is
the miracle finish on the handles, fused porcelain?
> The occasional Chicago knife has faired
> pretty well when one was accisnetally put in the DW.
You just couldn't hear its cry of anguish over the dishwasher noise. I'm
surprised it didn't run away from home :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> I am putting the BS epoxy to another test now. I am making a set of
>> kitchen knives and as a test I am using the 20 minute stuff on the
>> first test model to see how well it will take the hard use in the
>> kitchen (by me!) and the exposure to detergents, heat and abrasion
>> from cleaning as well as acids etc. from food. We'll see.....
>
>> What I might do to make really sure this stuff is good is put the
>> dishwasher on low heat and run a block of wood with a piece of metal
>> epoxied on it for a few cycles. The boys on the knife making forum
>> did that in "Glue Wars II", and it sure separated the wanna be
>> adhesives from the good stuff.
>
> Never, never, *NEVER* run wood handled knives through a dishwasher! The
> very thought makes me shudder.
Actually it all depends on the finish. I have been washing a set of Case
steak knives "with wood handles" in the dish washer for the last 29 years.
No worse for wear. The occasional Chicago knife has faired pretty well when
one was accisnetally put in the DW.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 21, 2:17 pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Case steak knives "with wood handles" in the dish washer for the
>>> last 29 years. No worse for wear.
>>
>> I'm guessing you've had steak at least once a year, right? If so,
>> what is the miracle finish on the handles, fused porcelain?
>
> I'll bet it's something like Buck's Dymondwood, which is a series of
> wood layers bonded under huge amounts of pressure with resin to make
> it wood colored resin.
Or maybe rag micarta...I've seen it made to look wood-like.
___________
>> You just couldn't hear its cry of anguish over the dishwasher noise.
>> I'm surprised it didn't run away from home :)
>
> LMAO!! No kidding!
>
>
> And dadiOH, I tried the link I posted and it did indeed not work. But
> if you are interested, do a normal Google web search and paste this
> in:
>
> bladeforums.com glue wars II
Thanks!
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "dadiOH" wrote:
>
>> I did. It's in a drawer. It's in a drawer because it holds 19
>> knives, 1 large fork and a cleaver and would occupy too much counter
>> space.
>> http://mysite.verizon.net/xico/pix/kniferack1.JPG
>
> Where do you keep your steel?
Hell, man, I'm 76. Oh...you mean *sharpening* steel :)
I always wanted one, never got around to getting one, kinda late in the game
now. I use a small stone that is in a utility drawer.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "dadiOH" wrote:
>
>
>> The knives are cleaned with a soft brush and a bit of detergent,
>> wiped dry and stood upright or at an angle for a while so that any
>> remaining water runs downward, then stored in a knife rack in a
>> drawer.
>
> Time to build a knife rack maybe?<G>
>
> Lew
I did. It's in a drawer. It's in a drawer because it holds 19 knives, 1
large fork and a cleaver and would occupy too much counter space.
http://mysite.verizon.net/xico/pix/kniferack1.JPG
There's another cleaver in the drawer too, a big one, bought it post rack to
chop up beef bones should the need ever arise. No need has yet arisen, if
it does I'll have to build something more sturdy than the counter top to
chop on :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Aug 21, 12:55 am, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Produces a strong like bull joint.
>
> Other than I have used a lot of System 3 material, have no interest in
> them.
I wouldn't have thought about using faring putty. Honestly, I have
only seen it in use (a friend of mine has a fiberglass business) and
have never used it myself.
The stuff I use is from these guys:
http://www.bsi-inc.com
I couldn't find their big page, but the one listed above has a
starting look at their products. If you haven't used their CA glues,
they are outstanding.
Their big home page has some great reviews on their products by Cessna
and a couple of other heavy hitters. I did find this, though:
http://tinyurl.com/maykuw
Their products seem to work well, store well, and they also seem to
hold as well as the Sys 3 products. I used to buy only Sys 3 and was
really faithful to the brand, but damn.... they got so pricey I went
looking for alternatives. I *love* epoxy for repairs so occasionally
I wind up using a lot of it.
The Smith adhesives are about 30 - 40% less $$ than the West products
and <seem> to have a longer shelf life.
These are really important factors to me as I might have some left
over that will sit on the shelf for a few months.
I had a kitchen that I was giving a facelift a few years ago. *All*
the drawers in the kitchen were coming apart. I wanted to put in
miter cut glue blocks inside the drawer boxes, glued and pinned, but
that was nixed by the owner because of appearance. I gave a couple of
options that were similarly unacceptable.
In the end, I offered no warranty on the repair but told them I would
"do what I could" to save their old drawers. So I broke apart the
half blind joints and dadoes and filled in the joints with an injector
loaded with the 20 minute stuff. Clamped each drawer for about 2
hours, then mixed up more and did another group of drawers, easily
working my way through the whole kitchen of about 20 - 25 drawers in a
day while doing other things.
They have held under rigorous use in that well used family kitchen for
a few years with no sign of the joints loosening. That is now the way
I repair all drawers since it leaves me with no finishing to do after
the repair, no worries about gap filling, no "creep" after a short
clamping and if there is some seepage it is sandable to remove it.
I am putting the BS epoxy to another test now. I am making a set of
kitchen knives and as a test I am using the 20 minute stuff on the
first test model to see how well it will take the hard use in the
kitchen (by me!) and the exposure to detergents, heat and abrasion
from cleaning as well as acids etc. from food. We'll see.....
What I might do to make really sure this stuff is good is put the
dishwasher on low heat and run a block of wood with a piece of metal
epoxied on it for a few cycles. The boys on the knife making forum
did that in "Glue Wars II", and it sure separated the wanna be
adhesives from the good stuff.
For anyone that wants to know which of the 8 "professional grade"
epoxies that were tested that won, it was a tie between two LocTite
products. They were tested for abrasion resistance, heat resistance,
adhesion to dissimilar materials, shear resistance, water proofing,
and elasticity all on wood to metal joints.
The winners? Loctite 120HP and Loctite PC7.
Neither of them sold locally.... ;^(
Robert
On Aug 22, 7:04=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I did. =A0It's in a drawer. =A0It's in a drawer because it holds 19 knive=
s, 1
> large fork and a cleaver and would occupy too much counter space.http://m=
ysite.verizon.net/xico/pix/kniferack1.JPG
>
> There's another cleaver in the drawer too, a big one, bought it post rack=
to
> chop up beef bones should the need ever arise. =A0No need has yet arisen,=
if
> it does I'll have to build something more sturdy than the counter top to
> chop on =A0:)
Why would you store your knives cutting side down? Or am I seeing it
wrong?
Luigi
On Aug 21, 4:16 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What I might do to make really sure this stuff is good is put the
> > dishwasher on low heat and run a block of wood with a piece of metal
> > epoxied on it for a few cycles. The boys on the knife making forum
> > did that in "Glue Wars II", and it sure separated the wanna be
> > adhesives from the good stuff.
>
> Never, never, *NEVER* run wood handled knives through a dishwasher! The
> very thought makes me shudder.
OK... alright... calm down.... nothing to see here.... ;^)
Read carefully; I never said I would run one of my knives through the
dishwasher. Heresy!
Since cooking is one of my hobbies, I have a few hundred dollars
invested in cutlery. Never, ever, has any one of my knives seen the
inside of a dishwasher, regardless of handle material. The chemicals
and heat can easily damage the fine edge of a knife as well as pit the
surface of the blade.
As a sidebar, I was so pissed off when I saw one of my 8" hollow
ground fine edge chef's knives in the sink (that's right... in the
sink sitting on the bottom of it) I went out and bought my SO her own
6" chef's knife. She is no longer tempted to touch one of my slicers,
with the caveat she can do what ever she pleases with hers with no
comment from me.
> The reason I used epoxy was to keep water from working down between tang and
> wood. I don't know how well epoxy without rivets would work; personally, I
> *like* rivets :)
I don't know if this link will work, but if it doesn't, can use Google
to search Bladeforums.com, using "Glue Wars II" as your search. This
might work, and has a link to Glue Wars 1 and 3 as well.
http://tinyurl.com/lbk5su
As with all things pedantic here, the debate is hot over there on
whether or not pins or any other kind of mechanical fasteners are
needed with today's adhesives.
If you can get the link to work, go to the Glue Wars II link and you
will see (as referenced above) pieces of wood glued with different
epoxies to a piece of metal and then put in the tortuous dishwasher
for exposure. The object was to see which adhesive failed first.
Since they established the baseline in their own experiments, I was
thinking I could check my own epoxy favorite against their test
results. This would also give me a look at how well my home wood
stabilization method worked out. I put different species of wood cut
into knife scale sizes in a vacuum tight container and pulled 26" on
them until the absorbed enough poly resins to be significantly heavier
than water. I used a set of these scales to make my first 4" utility
paring knife.
After using the test knife in the kitchen for a few months, it still
looks perfect. But I am wondering how the poly impregnation will fare
if it goes into the dishwasher to accelerate the wear to simulate a
few years of use.
No knives will be harmed in the testing of these adhesives. ;^)
However, that doesn't diminish the value of your post, nor the
description of the fun project you made out of rehandling the old
knives. Good advice on cleaning and handling them, too.
Robert
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> The typical approach in this situation would be epoxy. It will stick
> to anything like old glue, wood, etc. It also has gap filling ability
> and yellow wood glue requires direct surface contact of mated parts
> and in old jopints that isn't always a given.
>
> On Aug 20, 6:39 pm, sbnjhfty <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am beginning to refinish a set of chairs and all of
>> the joints need re-glued. They appear to have been
>> glued with typical yellow glue. Will yellow glue
>> adhere to itself? I can sand the joints but it is
>> unlikely that I will be able to remove the old stuff
>> as it is soaked in. I would like this glue job to
>> last for quite a while. Any tips?
>
I've got the same kind of project coming up in the winter, and I'd
planned on epoxy as well, along with microballoons. I've used it before
for repair work and have been very happy with it.
Tanus
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The stuff I use is from these guys:
>
> http://www.bsi-inc.com
As someone who built and flew a lot of model planes in my misspent
youth, web site brought a smile to my face.
SFWIW:
There are only 3-4 manufacturers of epoxy base resin (Part A) world
wide.
Shell, Dow, Ciba and maybe another one.
The magic is with the formulators that manufacture the hardeners (Part
B) of which there are hundreds worldwide.
Given the above, a major cost of epoxy is in the packaging.
When I buy epoxy, I buy 500# (55 gal drum) of "A" and 120# (3-40# pail
(5 gal)) which means I get a very competitive price.
If you check the price of a gallon jug of "A" along with a quart of
"B" for a 4:1 mix, think the sticker shock should be much less than
buying smaller quantities.
As far as fairing pitty is concerned, I make my own which allows me to
match the consistancy to the task.
Check around for an industrial chemical distributor and ask if they
sell Dicaperl, HP-500.
It is perlite mined in Colorado, is sold in 30# bags (4 cubic ft) for
less than $25 here in SoCal.
One bag will give you enough filler for probably at least 5-10 years.
> So I broke apart the
> half blind joints and dadoes and filled in the joints with an
> injector
> loaded with the 20 minute stuff.
Perfect application for fairing putty.
Break joint apart, butter with fairing putty, reassemble, clamp
lightly, then remove ooze with a stick and get a beer.
Sometimes you can wait till putty is set "green", then trim away
excess with a sharp knife rather than removing ooze while wet. Depends
on the operater.
> I am putting the BS epoxy to another test now.
I figured that since I was building a "blue water" sail boat, of which
several hundred had already been built and successfully sailed using
polyester resin, boat building epoxy was going to do just fine.
BTW, same formulation used to build wind turbine blades someplace in
Texas.
Have fun
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
What he said. Clean the parts and joints to be reattached well, then
try the 20 minute stuff from the hobby store.
You still need to let it set up overnight, but it will stay put in an
hour or so.
--------------------------------------------
Agreed except I have trouble with the hobby shop stuff when you can
get the real stuff for the same money.
Take a look:
http://www.systemthree.com/p_st_quikfair.asp
It's known as fairing putty, but I glued a lot of things together with
fairing putty.
Glue it up, forget it for 24 hours.
Produces a strong like bull joint.
Other than I have used a lot of System 3 material, have no interest in
them.
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I never knew that. I thought the big guys were manufacturers of
> their
own resins and hardeners.
The big guys make the big money with the minimum problems.
> I did know that Bob Smith Industries make
several different formulas and sells them as custom products in their
epoxy lines as well as their CA stuff.
Their CA products are used by the military to repair their RC spy
planes and drones by the military as well.
Classic example of a niche market filled by a small guy.
The big guys would go broke in a small market like that.
> Uh... probably about 50 years. I laughed when I saw the amounts of
resin you buy. Gallon buckets? 55 gallon drums? I wouldn't use that
in my lifetime!
Think positive<G>.
Go to the restaurant supply house and get some 1 OZ, 2 OZ, 4 OZ, and
12 OZ cups.
Stop by Home Depot for some paint sticks, then over to Harbor Freight
for some non sterile latex gloves, and suddenly you are in the epoxy
gluing business.
About the only other tool is a 4" right angle sander with some 24 grit
disks.
Next thing you know you have started down that slippery slope.
> Now that sounds like my kind of repair!
I firmly believe in the KISS principle.
Have fun.
Lew