Re: Shop Wall and Electric

On Aug 2, 2:37=A0am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > You're going to need a *lot* more lighting in your shop (another half-d=
ozen 4'
> > dual shop lights ought to do). =A0Might just as well put it in now.
>
> Real shop lights are the next project. =A0I've got wire and a switch all
> set for them! =A0 "Insulation" was a "Might just as well do it now". =A0T=
he
> sort of lighting I need to work in my shop, and the sort of lighting I
> need to sand joint compound near the ceiling are different enough that I
> don't consider it a "Might just as well do it now."! =A0: ) =A0I wouldn't
> mind having one of those fancy 1kW light stands, but can't justify the
> space for it at this point. =A0Thanks for the ideas!
>

It's a garage. When its not in use, hang it from the ceiling.

On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 07:14:22 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
>corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
>would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
>rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
>question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
>doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?

Lots!

>There are presently 2 fluorescent lights, in the middle of the 20'x24'
>area--but I'll need a more careful view while sanding right? I assume
>I'll need direct lighting to do a good job. My first inclination is to
>put my shop light (std. hand held/corded) on a movable stand of some
>sort? Can you point me to something like that? I also have an extra
>"living room lamp" at my disposal which I could move around as a fire
>hazard. ; ) BTDT?

You're going to need a *lot* more lighting in your shop (another half-dozen 4'
dual shop lights ought to do). Might just as well put it in now. Add to that
a couple of 1kW halogen work lights, for the mud work, and you should be OK.

Something like these (though I generally put 300W bulbs in them).

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xih/R-202071330/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

[email protected] wrote:

>
> You're going to need a *lot* more lighting in your shop (another
> half-dozen 4' dual shop lights ought to do). Might just as well put
> it in now. Add to that a couple of 1kW halogen work lights, for the
> mud work, and you should be OK.
>

A couple of 1KW work lights? Holy cow - you're going to blind the poor guy
with the glare.

Seriously - one does not need tons of light to check for flatness. A modest
60W bulb, and a head tilted to view the wall from an angle is plenty
sufficient. As another poster suggested - use your hand and fingers to find
the high/low spots.

Bill - I paint cars a bit - and I insist on dead flat surface finishes. I
have a little insight into this stuff, and you don't need to over engineer
this lighting thing. A simple hand held trouble light will give you all the
light you need to check your joints. You *can* have too much light and end
up with glare off the walls and glare from the airborne dust.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:16:34 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
>compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
>temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
>degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
>weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
>mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
>wrong about this, am I?

Keep it between 33F and 130F and you should be OK, Bill. Hard freezes
are rough on it, as is boiling. Other than that, just watch the
consistency.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

[email protected] wrote:

> You're going to need a *lot* more lighting in your shop (another half-dozen 4'
> dual shop lights ought to do). Might just as well put it in now.

Real shop lights are the next project. I've got wire and a switch all
set for them! "Insulation" was a "Might just as well do it now". The
sort of lighting I need to work in my shop, and the sort of lighting I
need to sand joint compound near the ceiling are different enough that I
don't consider it a "Might just as well do it now."! : ) I wouldn't
mind having one of those fancy 1kW light stands, but can't justify the
space for it at this point. Thanks for the ideas!

Bill

hmmmm.. I wonder where that came from. What was I thinking?...LOL

love = nick?


"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Sounds kinky.


On 8/16/2010 4:34 PM, Josepi wrote:
> Alway let your drywallers know that the wiring is alive. They are more
> careful, that way, and the bark will tell you where to look for the
> problems
> before the drywallers get away and **YOU** have to fix the drywall holes
> that allow you to pull a couple of more inches through the clamp.
>
> Ask them politely to hit the love conductors and NOT the neutrals though.

Don't freeze it. So far so good.

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 9/16/2010 7:16 PM, Bill wrote:
> I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint compound
> requires. On the container it says to store it at "room temperature". The
> temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80 degrees F. here lately. I
> don't plan to have to store it for too many weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it
> in from the garage. Because of it's mass, I figure it could probably handle a
> cool draft at night. I'm not wrong about this, am I?
>
> Bill

Bill wrote:
> Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
> corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
> would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
> rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
> question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want
> while doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint
> work?
> There are presently 2 fluorescent lights, in the middle of the 20'x24'
> area--but I'll need a more careful view while sanding right? I assume
> I'll need direct lighting to do a good job. My first inclination is
> to put my shop light (std. hand held/corded) on a movable stand of
> some sort? Can you point me to something like that? I also have an
> extra "living room lamp" at my disposal which I could move around as
> a fire hazard. ; ) BTDT?
>

Just put up whatever light you feel you need to see well Bill. There is no
such thing as defining proper lighting - it's all up to your eyes. You're a
smart guy, you don't need to ask every little common sense thing - just try
a few of the common sense things, and you'll be fine. Don't know why you
would call your moveable living room light a fire hazard...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Aug 2, 11:02=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]=
.com>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Aug 2, 6:57=3DA0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, Bill <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
> >> >Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
> >> >context of putting up drywall. =3DA0I bought Stanley's book on drywal=
l two
> >> >days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.
>
> >> >I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that =
is
> >> >what is offered at Lowes. =3DA0 My guess is that the 120 is for (heav=
ier)
> >> >setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.
>
> >> That's what I use.
>
> >Same.
>
> >> I also use one of these to control the dust:http://www.amazon.com/MT80=
0-S=3D
> >and-Kleen-Sander-System/dp/B00005A1K8
>
> >> Got mine at Home Depot about four, five years ago. Not sure if they st=
ill sell
> >> them or not -- it doesn't seem to be on their website. The product is =
great,
> >> and so is the manufacturer: I dropped the sanding head off the top of =
a ladder
> >> onto a concrete floor and cracked part of it. Called them to order a
> >> replacement -- told them exactly what happened, so they knew it wasn't=
a
> >> warranty claim -- and they sent a complete new sanding head, free of c=
harge,
> >> by Priority Mail. I had it in two days.
>
> >I have one of those, too. =A0It doesn't have the water filter on it,
> >though. =A0I've found that the screen makes larger dust particles (than
> >sand paper) so a shop vac has no problems with it. =A0It will plug a
> >filter, though. =A0I wonder if a Dust Deputy would help.
>
> Heck, the water filter is the best feature. It catches 90% of the dust; v=
ery
> little actually makes it through to the shopvac.

...and you can recycle the dust into new mud! ;-)

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> Don't know why you
>> would call your moveable living room light a fire hazard...
>
> Well, because it's so top-heavy. I no doubt wrote that because
> I had just read the following sentence in a book:
>
> "If you have a fire hazard--I mean an attached garage, then...."
>
> (and I thought it was humorous).
>
> What I'm after, I think, is a way to make my $10 shop light solve
> my current lighting needs. I could add some rope hooks to my aluminum
> ladder (and convert it into an electrical hazard)...
>
>
> Bill

On Aug 2, 10:14=A0am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>, Bill<[email protected]> =A0wrote=
:
> >> Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
> >> corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. =
=A0I
> >> would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
> >> rather than tip-toeing around it. =A0While I was trimming things up a
> >> question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want whil=
e
> >> doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?
>
> > I use one of these:
> >http://www.lowes.com/pd_320775-337-TQS1000QDUT_0_?productId=3D3179077
>
> Wow, the price is right too (~$39). =A0Do you find it convenient for othe=
r
> uses? =A0 I'd guess it's probably pretty hot so one might not want to be
> right underneath it.

I've found, like all tools, a little more money goes a long way in
satisfaction. I have one of the cheapie lights and it's not very
stable. One of the switches broke, as well, so only one head works.
I'll spend more money on the next one. Another $40 or so is nothing
when doing this stuff.

> I've got a list of about 10 drywall-project related things to pick up
> today (drywall hammer, ...), not including drywall and joint compound.
> I'll have to see how I survive that first! =A0: )

Hammer?! Screw the sheetrock!

Bill wrote:

>
> My work, at the ceiling, Easysand on top of Durabond, taped, is
> basically sanded vertically with 150 grit (leaving minor "striation").
> So far, I've used 6" and 8" knives there creating a taper that extends
> 10 to 11 inches from the ceiling. I have a 12" knife for finishing. I
> expect I can omit adding a layer of "All-Purpose" there and go
> straight to the finishing compound (or not?).

You will want to apply/finish your taper in the horizontal direction as well
as the vertical in order to eliminate the striations Bill. Circular might
be a better reference word. If I recall, you have a significant step that
you flared out, and you will probably find that you want that flare
extending a great deal farther than what you currently have, or it will be
visible. You might want to consider using something like a wallpaper tool
to feather out coats of mud to get a larger and flatter flare. Longer is
better in this type of application, and remember that you build up in small
steps rather than trying to get it all in one load. You might also want to
consider a long board for sanding it down. You can get rolls of abrasive
from auto body supply shops, that have an adhesive back, which you can stick
to a board. Will work great in flattening out surfaces. You will probably
find that your flares will run out a couple of feet by the time you are
done, in order to make them disappear.

>
> Do you have any suggestions about the application of further compounds
> and sanding (in particular, is there a worthwhile reason to switch to
> strictly horizontal application and sanding)?
>

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

mike" wrote:

> How is your "block sender" affecting this fool:
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
-----------------------
Who?

-----------------------
> You can lead them to LINUX
> but you can't make them THINK !
> Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
> Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz helping
------------------------
Who?
------------------------
> "Evodawg" is supposedly a linux user, looks to me
> like you are batting with a sieve, Lew!
------------------------------
Who?

Lew

Bill wrote:
> Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
> corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
> would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
> rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
> question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
> doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?
>
> There are presently 2 fluorescent lights, in the middle of the 20'x24'
> area--but I'll need a more careful view while sanding right? I assume
> I'll need direct lighting to do a good job. My first inclination is to
> put my shop light (std. hand held/corded) on a movable stand of some
> sort? Can you point me to something like that? I also have an extra
> "living room lamp" at my disposal which I could move around as a fire
> hazard. ; ) BTDT?
>
> Bill

I find that running my hand over the seams and joints often does a
better job of finding flaws than that of sight. Expect to do some
touch-ups after the primer goes on.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

>
> At this point, it looks good to me. In places where the step was
> greater, I made a wider "band" than I described. If if doesn't look
> good after I prime it, I may do as you suggest--though I wonder
> whether it would be easier to just replace the top 12" of drywall to
> the ceiling... Thank you for your idea; I will save it for
> reference. It seems like if you adhere sanding screen to a board
> that there would be little room for the dust to fall away--and that
> you would end up scratching the surface. Is there more to the picture
> than you described? Are you talking about a board sized to fit 2
> screens end-to-end? Not necessary to put much effort into a reply
> for my sake, as I'm not there yet, but the ideas are interesting!
>

For a step like I recall you to have, I would be using a 2'-3' long board.
The rolls of abrasive I suggested come in 2" width, so the board does not
need to be more than 2" wide. Stiffen it with a backbone, which will also
give you something to hold on to. Don't worry - the dust will certainly
fall away. We use long boards in doing auto body work - though they are
only 14-16" long. They make getting a surface dead flat a lot easier.
Plus - the longer the board is the easier it will be to hold it up there
and get a look at what things will look like when you paint the wall. If
you can see any kind of gap under a 2' board, then you can be assured you'll
see it in paint as well. Though... you are pretty high up with your joint,
so you get a little relief just from the fact that it is so far above eye
level.




--

-Mike-
[email protected]

The joint is half empty...


"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Pessimist, huh? : )


Nova wrote:

> I find that running my hand over the seams and joints often does a
> better job of finding flaws than that of sight. Expect to do some
> touch-ups after the primer goes on.
>

Ohhh...that's why they make those 6" deep boxes? To hide the wires from the
drywallers.

Why is it they always nick the neutral conductor and it only shows up on the
GFCI circuits?



"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Actually the drywall guys are the bane of electricians. They don't care one
hoot about those boxes. Very common to find a glob of dried compound in a
box. Same thing with painters. That said - the mud chips out very easily
and if it is part of a smear that ran wild from the wall, just score it
through along the outside of the box and chip off the errant remainder. For
the most part you can easily mud right up to the box with no problems, but
if you do lay a blob in there it's no big deal. The screw threads are no
problem at all. The screws will run home just fine. If your wires are
properly tucked inside your boxes, you have nothing to worry about from
drywall tools.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
>>> joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
>>> ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
>>> may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.
>>>
>>
>> What do you mean by joint-starved Bill? Do you mean that you've sanded down
>> to the tape and it's starting to show?
>
>Sorry, I took too much liberty with the following definition:
>
>starved joint ( ′stärvd ′jöint ) ( engineering ) A glued joint
>containing insufficient or inadequate adhesive.
>
>I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in
>just a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively)
>thought I might fix that with additional layers of joint compound.
>Didn't work. Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem
>likely to be a headache down the road...).

Cut a slit in the "bad" places (air bubbles) with an utility knife,
then (re)apply your topcoat.

scott

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>"mike" wrote:
>
>> Do not be so bloody lazy, get proactive.
><snip>
>--------------------
>More work than it's worth, especially when "block sender" is so easy.
>
>Lew
>
As said, lazy.
The ass knows the way around "block sender".

How is your "block sender" affecting this fool:
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
--
You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK !
Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz helping

"Evodawg" is supposedly a linux user, looks to me
like you are batting with a sieve, Lew!

mike

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote

> I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in just
> a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively) thought I
> might fix that with additional layers of joint compound. Didn't work.
> Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem likely to be a
> headache down the road...).
>
> All the tools I need are sitting right there..redoing it now is not a
> major inconvenience (as long as the removal goes well enough). I am much
> faster now than I was when I started.

If it is just a few places, not very long, you can use a utility blade to
cut a football shaped piece out of the paper and fill it in with joint
compound. It will not show a crack even at a joint, for short sections.

If you can just pull the paper up, there will be an indentation where the
paper was. Trim a half inch off of the paper, and mud and re-apply the
paper in the groove without sanding down the indentation. Use a narrow
blade to press the paper into the mud. That could save some good time and
effort from sanding.

Did I mention that I hate to sand? <g>
--
Jim in NC

Bill wrote:

> I'm preparing to tape my joints and around several of my eleven
> electrical boxes. Larry may consider it "overkill", but I made
> little cardboard box inserts, held by friction, which fit into the
> front of each of the electrical boxes to protect the wires from
> drywall knives, sanders, etc.
>
> I noticed that the screw holes are still exposed so I'm planning to
> buy a package of short 6-32 screws to protect the screw holes from
> now until the time that I am finished painting. Is this the standard
> way to protect the screw holes during the joint taping and painting
> process? I assume that it's sufficient.
>

Actually the drywall guys are the bane of electricians. They don't care one
hoot about those boxes. Very common to find a glob of dried compound in a
box. Same thing with painters. That said - the mud chips out very easily
and if it is part of a smear that ran wild from the wall, just score it
through along the outside of the box and chip off the errant remainder. For
the most part you can easily mud right up to the box with no problems, but
if you do lay a blob in there it's no big deal. The screw threads are no
problem at all. The screws will run home just fine. If your wires are
properly tucked inside your boxes, you have nothing to worry about from
drywall tools.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

>
> I'm just trying to see the light! : ) Well, maybe the reverse--but
> as Paul McCartney sang, and just recently on PBS, "Let It Be"... ; )

Or the old Hank Williams song "I Saw The Light"...

>
> Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
> context of putting up drywall. I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
> days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.

Seems to me the drywall sanding stuff is around 80 or 100 grit. That stuff
is a lot better than sandpaper in my opion.

>
> I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that
> is what is offered at Lowes. My guess is that the 120 is for
> (heavier) setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.

Shouldn't need two grits. 120 might be a tad on the fine side. 220 is
definitely finer than you'll need.

>
> Then (I pondered), someone who can apply joint compound nicely might
> not even need the 120...

It wouldn't be a sheetrock job if you didn't have fine white dust
everywehre - especially in your nose.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Josepi wrote:
> Ohhh...that's why they make those 6" deep boxes? To hide the wires
> from the drywallers.
>
> Why is it they always nick the neutral conductor and it only shows up
> on the GFCI circuits?
>

It's all part of an evil plot on the part of the even more evil drywallers
and painters.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Aug 2, 6:57=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
> >context of putting up drywall. =A0I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
> >days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.
>
> >I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that is
> >what is offered at Lowes. =A0 My guess is that the 120 is for (heavier)
> >setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.
>
> That's what I use.

Same.

> I also use one of these to control the dust:http://www.amazon.com/MT800-S=
and-Kleen-Sander-System/dp/B00005A1K8
>
> Got mine at Home Depot about four, five years ago. Not sure if they still=
sell
> them or not -- it doesn't seem to be on their website. The product is gre=
at,
> and so is the manufacturer: I dropped the sanding head off the top of a l=
adder
> onto a concrete floor and cracked part of it. Called them to order a
> replacement -- told them exactly what happened, so they knew it wasn't a
> warranty claim -- and they sent a complete new sanding head, free of char=
ge,
> by Priority Mail. I had it in two days.

I have one of those, too. It doesn't have the water filter on it,
though. I've found that the screen makes larger dust particles (than
sand paper) so a shop vac has no problems with it. It will plug a
filter, though. I wonder if a Dust Deputy would help.

Bill wrote:

>
> On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
> joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
> ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
> may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.
>

What do you mean by joint-starved Bill? Do you mean that you've sanded down
to the tape and it's starting to show? If so - don't remove it. Feather
new compound in to cover it over. You don't need any minimum amount of
compound - just enough to hide the tape.

> I guess I'll get out some 120 grit (heaviest I have on hand) and sand
> 'er down and retape. That's what you do if this happens, right
> (Yes, that's a real question)? Better to back up and get it right,
> then forge ahead and have the tape fall off after its painted...

Can't answer for sure, because I don't understand what you mean when you say
joint starved.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?

There are presently 2 fluorescent lights, in the middle of the 20'x24'
area--but I'll need a more careful view while sanding right? I assume
I'll need direct lighting to do a good job. My first inclination is to
put my shop light (std. hand held/corded) on a movable stand of some
sort? Can you point me to something like that? I also have an extra
"living room lamp" at my disposal which I could move around as a fire
hazard. ; ) BTDT?

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:
Don't know why you
> would call your moveable living room light a fire hazard...

Well, because it's so top-heavy. I no doubt wrote that because
I had just read the following sentence in a book:

"If you have a fire hazard--I mean an attached garage, then...."

(and I thought it was humorous).

What I'm after, I think, is a way to make my $10 shop light solve
my current lighting needs. I could add some rope hooks to my aluminum
ladder (and convert it into an electrical hazard)...


Bill

Nova wrote:

> I find that running my hand over the seams and joints often does a
> better job of finding flaws than that of sight. Expect to do some
> touch-ups after the primer goes on.
>

Pessimist, huh? : )

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Just put up whatever light you feel you need to see well Bill. There is no
> such thing as defining proper lighting - it's all up to your eyes. You're a
> smart guy, you don't need to ask every little common sense thing - just try
> a few of the common sense things, and you'll be fine.

I'm just trying to see the light! : ) Well, maybe the reverse--but as
Paul McCartney sang, and just recently on PBS, "Let It Be"... ; )

Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
context of putting up drywall. I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.

I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that is
what is offered at Lowes. My guess is that the 120 is for (heavier)
setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.

Then (I pondered), someone who can apply joint compound nicely might not
even need the 120...

Is my intuition concerning the use of the sanding screens correct?

Bill

In article <[email protected]>, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
>corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
>would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
>rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
>question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
>doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?

I use one of these:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_320775-337-TQS1000QDUT_0_?productId=3179077

Set it up so that it's almost parallel to the wall. Imperfections in the
surface will throw sharp shadows. If you can't see imperfections under a
thousand watts of unfrosted, unshaded, glaring light, nobody will be able to
see them under a couple hundred watts of frosted fluorescent lighting after
you're done.

In article <[email protected]>, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
>context of putting up drywall. I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
>days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.
>
>I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that is
>what is offered at Lowes. My guess is that the 120 is for (heavier)
>setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.

That's what I use.

I also use one of these to control the dust:
http://www.amazon.com/MT800-Sand-Kleen-Sander-System/dp/B00005A1K8

Got mine at Home Depot about four, five years ago. Not sure if they still sell
them or not -- it doesn't seem to be on their website. The product is great,
and so is the manufacturer: I dropped the sanding head off the top of a ladder
onto a concrete floor and cracked part of it. Called them to order a
replacement -- told them exactly what happened, so they knew it wasn't a
warranty claim -- and they sent a complete new sanding head, free of charge,
by Priority Mail. I had it in two days.

Doug Miller wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
>> corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
>> would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
>> rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
>> question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
>> doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?
>
> I use one of these:
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_320775-337-TQS1000QDUT_0_?productId=3179077
>


Wow, the price is right too (~$39). Do you find it convenient for other
uses? I'd guess it's probably pretty hot so one might not want to be
right underneath it.

I've got a list of about 10 drywall-project related things to pick up
today (drywall hammer, ...), not including drywall and joint compound.
I'll have to see how I survive that first! : )

Bill

In article <d5681c8d-b252-4e0a-b0ad-d10c30fda3a9@n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Aug 2, 6:57=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Could you advise me on sand-paper (I really mean "screen"), in the
>> >context of putting up drywall. =A0I bought Stanley's book on drywall two
>> >days ago and, to my surprise, this was not addressed.
>>
>> >I was going to get 120 grit (medium) and 220 grit (fine), since that is
>> >what is offered at Lowes. =A0 My guess is that the 120 is for (heavier)
>> >setting compound and the 220 is for the finishing compound.
>>
>> That's what I use.
>
>Same.
>
>> I also use one of these to control the dust:http://www.amazon.com/MT800-S=
>and-Kleen-Sander-System/dp/B00005A1K8
>>
>> Got mine at Home Depot about four, five years ago. Not sure if they still sell
>> them or not -- it doesn't seem to be on their website. The product is great,
>> and so is the manufacturer: I dropped the sanding head off the top of a ladder
>> onto a concrete floor and cracked part of it. Called them to order a
>> replacement -- told them exactly what happened, so they knew it wasn't a
>> warranty claim -- and they sent a complete new sanding head, free of charge,
>> by Priority Mail. I had it in two days.
>
>I have one of those, too. It doesn't have the water filter on it,
>though. I've found that the screen makes larger dust particles (than
>sand paper) so a shop vac has no problems with it. It will plug a
>filter, though. I wonder if a Dust Deputy would help.

Heck, the water filter is the best feature. It catches 90% of the dust; very
little actually makes it through to the shopvac.

In article <[email protected]>, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>, Bill<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Just finished my insulation. I ended up taking down the drywall in the
>>> corner too, rather than leaving myself 2 butt-joints to make there. I
>>> would have saved some time if I had decided that a month or two ago
>>> rather than tip-toeing around it. While I was trimming things up a
>>> question occurred to me--What sort of Lighting am I going to want while
>>> doing the setting compound/sanding/finishing compound joint work?
>>
>> I use one of these:
>> http://www.lowes.com/pd_320775-337-TQS1000QDUT_0_?productId=3179077
>>
>Wow, the price is right too (~$39). Do you find it convenient for other
>uses?

Oh, absolutely. I use it when painting a room, or when finishing furniture --
the brighter the light the better. Occasionally use it in the garage for car
repair work too, and for general-purpose task lighting whenever I need a bit
more light on whatever I'm working on.

Pick up a couple of spare bulbs too -- but not at Lowe's. They're about 75%
cheaper at Harbor Freight.

>I'd guess it's probably pretty hot so one might not want to be
>right underneath it.

Quite correct. If you're using one while painting a small room, best to
station it outside the door if you can, so that most of the heat stays
outside the room. OTOH, that heat can be useful when working on a car in an
unheated garage in February. DAMHIKT.
>
>I've got a list of about 10 drywall-project related things to pick up
>today (drywall hammer, ...), not including drywall and joint compound.
>I'll have to see how I survive that first! : )

There are some excellent videos on drywall installation and finishing
techniques available at the public library. And I'll share a finishing tip
that I learned from a pro: when spreading joint compound, hold your taping
knife with your index and middle fingers splayed out in a vee behind the
blade, and grasp the handle only with your thumb and last two fingers. That
gives you *far* better control of the blade than if you grasp the handle with
your entire hand.

I'm preparing to tape my joints and around several of my eleven
electrical boxes. Larry may consider it "overkill", but I made
little cardboard box inserts, held by friction, which fit into the front
of each of the electrical boxes to protect the wires from drywall
knives, sanders, etc.

I noticed that the screw holes are still exposed so I'm planning to buy
a package of short 6-32 screws to protect the screw holes from now until
the time that I am finished painting. Is this the standard way to
protect the screw holes during the joint taping and painting process? I
assume that it's sufficient.

Bill

On 8/16/2010 4:34 PM, Josepi wrote:
> Alway let your drywallers know that the wiring is alive. They are more
> careful, that way, and the bark will tell you where to look for the problems
> before the drywallers get away and **YOU** have to fix the drywall holes
> that allow you to pull a couple of more inches through the clamp.
>
> Ask them politely to hit the love conductors and NOT the neutrals though.

Sounds kinky.

Earlier in this thread, I described how much drywall work I left for
myself 3" away from the ceiling. 25 pounds of Durabond and 18 pounds of
EasySand later, that part looks pretty darn good now. I learned to wear
gloves when I work with EasySand, and to act faster too.

On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.

I guess I'll get out some 120 grit (heaviest I have on hand) and sand
'er down and retape. That's what you do if this happens, right
(Yes, that's a real question)? Better to back up and get it right,
then forge ahead and have the tape fall off after its painted...

I just wanted you supportive folks to know I'm still working at it.

Bill

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> On the other hand, having completed my second layer with All-Purpose
>> joint compound, I notice I've got almost 20 feet of tape (not near the
>> ceiling) which is largely joint-starved. In some cases, I think that
>> may partly be the result of taping across too wide a gap.
>>
>
> What do you mean by joint-starved Bill? Do you mean that you've sanded down
> to the tape and it's starting to show?

Sorry, I took too much liberty with the following definition:

starved joint ( ′stärvd ′jöint ) ( engineering ) A glued joint
containing insufficient or inadequate adhesive.

I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in
just a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively)
thought I might fix that with additional layers of joint compound.
Didn't work. Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem
likely to be a headache down the road...).

All the tools I need are sitting right there..redoing it now is not a
major inconvenience (as long as the removal goes well enough). I am
much faster now than I was when I started.

Bill





>
>> I guess I'll get out some 120 grit (heaviest I have on hand) and sand
>> 'er down and retape. That's what you do if this happens, right
>> (Yes, that's a real question)? Better to back up and get it right,
>> then forge ahead and have the tape fall off after its painted...

Morgans wrote:
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I.e., there are places where the tape is not adhered. You can push in just
>> a little, 1/16" or less, with your finger. At first I (naively) thought I
>> might fix that with additional layers of joint compound. Didn't work.
>> Those "bad" places keep looking raised (and they seem likely to be a
>> headache down the road...).
>>
>> All the tools I need are sitting right there..redoing it now is not a
>> major inconvenience (as long as the removal goes well enough). I am much
>> faster now than I was when I started.
>
> If it is just a few places, not very long, you can use a utility blade to
> cut a football shaped piece out of the paper and fill it in with joint
> compound. It will not show a crack even at a joint, for short sections.
>
> If you can just pull the paper up, there will be an indentation where the
> paper was. Trim a half inch off of the paper, and mud and re-apply the
> paper in the groove without sanding down the indentation. Use a narrow
> blade to press the paper into the mud. That could save some good time and
> effort from sanding.

That seems like a darn good idea. I'll use it if I can pull the paper up
nicely. Thanks!

BTW, as you may have noticed from my earlier post, you helped me solve
the problem I was having near the ceiling. Amazing what 43 pounds of
dry compound can do with a little effort! : )

Bill

>
> Did I mention that I hate to sand?<g>

Bill wrote:
>
> BTW, as you may have noticed from my earlier post, you helped me solve
> the problem I was having near the ceiling.

My work, at the ceiling, Easysand on top of Durabond, taped, is
basically sanded vertically with 150 grit (leaving minor "striation").
So far, I've used 6" and 8" knives there creating a taper that extends
10 to 11 inches from the ceiling. I have a 12" knife for finishing. I
expect I can omit adding a layer of "All-Purpose" there and go straight
to the finishing compound (or not?).

Do you have any suggestions about the application of further compounds
and sanding (in particular, is there a worthwhile reason to switch to
strictly horizontal application and sanding)?

So far, so good! Though admittedly I've paid a high price in labor for
taking this route and not removing the drywall to the ceiling! :)

Bill

On 9/9/2010 6:49 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> My work, at the ceiling, Easysand on top of Durabond, taped, is
>> basically sanded vertically with 150 grit (leaving minor "striation").
>> So far, I've used 6" and 8" knives there creating a taper that extends
>> 10 to 11 inches from the ceiling. I have a 12" knife for finishing. I
>> expect I can omit adding a layer of "All-Purpose" there and go
>> straight to the finishing compound (or not?).
>
> You will want to apply/finish your taper in the horizontal direction as well
> as the vertical in order to eliminate the striations Bill. Circular might
> be a better reference word. If I recall, you have a significant step that
> you flared out, and you will probably find that you want that flare
> extending a great deal farther than what you currently have, or it will be
> visible.

At this point, it looks good to me. In places where the step was
greater, I made a wider "band" than I described. If if doesn't look
good after I prime it, I may do as you suggest--though I wonder whether
it would be easier to just replace the top 12" of drywall to the
ceiling... Thank you for your idea; I will save it for reference. It
seems like if you adhere sanding screen to a board that there would be
little room for the dust to fall away--and that you would end up
scratching the surface. Is there more to the picture than you described?
Are you talking about a board sized to fit 2 screens end-to-end? Not
necessary to put much effort into a reply for my sake, as I'm not there
yet, but the ideas are interesting!

Bill




You might want to consider using something like a wallpaper tool
> to feather out coats of mud to get a larger and flatter flare. Longer is
> better in this type of application, and remember that you build up in small
> steps rather than trying to get it all in one load. You might also want to
> consider a long board for sanding it down. You can get rolls of abrasive
> from auto body supply shops, that have an adhesive back, which you can stick
> to a board. Will work great in flattening out surfaces. You will probably
> find that your flares will run out a couple of feet by the time you are
> done, in order to make them disappear.
>
>>
>> Do you have any suggestions about the application of further compounds
>> and sanding (in particular, is there a worthwhile reason to switch to
>> strictly horizontal application and sanding)?
>>
>

On 9/9/2010 1:03 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

> For a step like I recall you to have, I would be using a 2'-3' long board.
> The rolls of abrasive I suggested come in 2" width, so the board does not
> need to be more than 2" wide. Stiffen it with a backbone, which will also
> give you something to hold on to. Don't worry - the dust will certainly
> fall away. We use long boards in doing auto body work - though they are
> only 14-16" long. They make getting a surface dead flat a lot easier.
> Plus - the longer the board is the easier it will be to hold it up there
> and get a look at what things will look like when you paint the wall. If
> you can see any kind of gap under a 2' board, then you can be assured you'll
> see it in paint as well. Though... you are pretty high up with your joint,
> so you get a little relief just from the fact that it is so far above eye
> level.
>

The metrics are helpful! I've been moving a ruler around a little to
gauge how I'm doing--I might be afraid to try a yardstick! : )

Thanks,
Bill

I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
wrong about this, am I?

Bill

On 9/16/10 8:16 PM, Bill wrote:
> I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
> compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
> temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
> degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
> weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
> mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
> wrong about this, am I?
>
Your fine, if is supposed to get much below 50, bring it in.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

FrozenNorth wrote:
> On 9/16/10 8:16 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I'm curious how much care does a 5 gallon bucket of all-purpose joint
>> compound requires. On the container it says to store it at "room
>> temperature". The temperatures are hovering locally between 53 and 80
>> degrees F. here lately. I don't plan to have to store it for too many
>> weeks and I'm reluctant to bring it in from the garage. Because of it's
>> mass, I figure it could probably handle a cool draft at night. I'm not
>> wrong about this, am I?
>>
> Your fine, if is supposed to get much below 50, bring it in.
>

Thank you.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Actually the drywall guys are the bane of electricians. They don't care
> one hoot about those boxes. Very common to find a glob of dried compound
> in a box. Same thing with painters. That said - the mud chips out very
> easily and if it is part of a smear that ran wild from the wall, just
> score it through along the outside of the box and chip off the errant
> remainder. For the most part you can easily mud right up to the box with
> no problems, but if you do lay a blob in there it's no big deal. The
> screw threads are no problem at all. The screws will run home just fine.
> If your wires are properly tucked inside your boxes, you have nothing to
> worry about from drywall tools.
The screws sticking up will make finishing harder, as will wires sticking
out or box sticking up.

Alway let your drywallers know that the wiring is alive. They are more
careful, that way, and the bark will tell you where to look for the problems
before the drywallers get away and **YOU** have to fix the drywall holes
that allow you to pull a couple of more inches through the clamp.

Ask them politely to hit the love conductors and NOT the neutrals though.



"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It's all part of an evil plot on the part of the even more evil drywallers
and painters.


Josepi wrote:
> Ohhh...that's why they make those 6" deep boxes? To hide the wires
> from the drywallers.
>
> Why is it they always nick the neutral conductor and it only shows up
> on the GFCI circuits?
>

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 21:43:45 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You're going to need a *lot* more lighting in your shop (another
>>> half-dozen 4' dual shop lights ought to do). Might just as well put
>>> it in now. Add to that a couple of 1kW halogen work lights, for the
>>> mud work, and you should be OK.
>>>
>>
>> A couple of 1KW work lights? Holy cow - you're going to blind the
>> poor guy with the glare.
>
> Put 300W sticks in them. Bounce off the ceiling or an adjacent wall.
> One light tends to throw shadows.
>
>> Seriously - one does not need tons of light to check for flatness.
>> A modest 60W bulb, and a head tilted to view the wall from an angle
>> is plenty sufficient. As another poster suggested - use your hand
>> and fingers to find the high/low spots.
>
> It's a lot easier to see with a *lot* of flat (indirect) light. At
> least it is for me.

You need to try more techniques. One light will do the job. It's all about
the angles.

>
>> Bill - I paint cars a bit - and I insist on dead flat surface
>> finishes. I have a little insight into this stuff, and you don't
>> need to over engineer this lighting thing. A simple hand held
>> trouble light will give you all the light you need to check your
>> joints. You *can* have too much light and end up with glare off the
>> walls and glare from the airborne dust.
>
> Dust? ...and you paint cars? ;-)

Oh... you might say...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 21:43:45 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> You're going to need a *lot* more lighting in your shop (another
>> half-dozen 4' dual shop lights ought to do). Might just as well put
>> it in now. Add to that a couple of 1kW halogen work lights, for the
>> mud work, and you should be OK.
>>
>
>A couple of 1KW work lights? Holy cow - you're going to blind the poor guy
>with the glare.

Put 300W sticks in them. Bounce off the ceiling or an adjacent wall. One
light tends to throw shadows.

>Seriously - one does not need tons of light to check for flatness. A modest
>60W bulb, and a head tilted to view the wall from an angle is plenty
>sufficient. As another poster suggested - use your hand and fingers to find
>the high/low spots.

It's a lot easier to see with a *lot* of flat (indirect) light. At least it is
for me.

>Bill - I paint cars a bit - and I insist on dead flat surface finishes. I
>have a little insight into this stuff, and you don't need to over engineer
>this lighting thing. A simple hand held trouble light will give you all the
>light you need to check your joints. You *can* have too much light and end
>up with glare off the walls and glare from the airborne dust.

Dust? ...and you paint cars? ;-)