OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
to time.
I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
unwell ( see supra ).
I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
this Linux that I have heard so much about?
I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
the hog.
I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
I await the common wisdom.
And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
I've seen the same thing. The majority of the time, it is the operators
inability rather than the software.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
> Also, Autocad is known for being a bit
> buggy. I've heard
> engineers in the next -building- screaming at it when I worked at
> Palomar Technology. <g>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> If God approved of nudity, we all would have been born naked.
> ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
> http://www.diversify.com Your Wild & Woody Website Wonk
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:30:41 GMT, Eugene <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>>Tom wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>I appreciate all the help and will begin saving my pennies for a spare
>>>hard drive.
>>
>> You can get 160 gigs for less than a Benjy today. I love it!
>> Maxtor 40G for $50, WD Caviar 160G for $99. AfreakinMazing.
>> http://www.pricescan.com/items/item145747.asp
>He said he has a laptop so he would need a laptop drive which is a bit more
>expensive.
Oops, I forgot that detail. Make that 40G for under a Benjy.
http://www.pricescan.com/items/item151598.asp
OR
make that 80G for just over a Benjy.
http://www.pricescan.com/items/item152667.asp
both USB2 externals.
-----------------------------------------------
I'll apologize for offending someone...right
after they apologize for being easily offended.
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Inoffensive Web Design
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
Tom,
Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc Lots of graphic
and design programs including Photoshop. I'll stand by for the flames
but It's damn pleasant to look at the virus and system compromise
issues the Windows world is facing form where I sit. The iMac I'm
working on now is five years old and I basically do exactly what you do
with a computer. Other than adding some RAM it works fine.
Allen
Catonsville, MD
Asbestos underwear on!
In article <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> wrote:
> SNIP <As far as all the programs you use, you don't need antivirus
> tools because Unix systems (Linux is a version of Unix) are basically
> immune to them.>
>
> Sorry - this is simply NOT true and is DANGEROUS and STUPID to
> espouse.
Indeed, while I'm a Mac guy I agree wholeheartly. There are
substantially less virus's out there that can effect Mac and Unix (and
linux) but they are there. That being said, generally the virus's that
can effect you on these systems have substantially less dire
consequences to your system and less chance to rapidly spread since
they are essentially layered defenses without the MS operating system
and it's accompying applications. Being a belt and suspenders guy
though I certainly run firewalls and virus protection as a matter of
course.
Allen
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:40:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Eugene wrote:
> >
> >> J. Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >>> mp wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Tom,
> >>>>> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
> >>>>> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
> >>>>> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse,
> >>>> hardly any software, and slow. And expensive.
> >>>
> >>> Since the Mac is a BSD box you've just said that *nix has a Tonka toy
> >>> interface, hardly any software, and is slow. Is that what you intended?
> >>>
> >> MAC=BSD like Internet Explorer = Mosaic. Just because they start with bsd
> >> code doesn't mean it stayed that way. Apple has been known to break as
> >> many standards as MS.
> >
> >So what code that runs on BSD on a non-Mac PowerPC doesn't run on a Mac?
>
>
> a better question might be: What code that runs on a mac runs
> *anywhere* else?\
Lets see, On this 5 year old iMac I run Mac versions of
IE
Windows media player
Netscape (7.2)
MS Office (sans Access)
AOL IM
Quicken
Photoshop
iTunes
Reunion
Palm Desktop
Quicktime
Norton Personl FW
Norton AV
Program that I run that do NOT run on windoze include
iMovie
iPhoto
Safari
Thoth
All the programs that I run Mac version of are fully compatible for
trading files with Windoze machines (since I do that regularly with a
Dell Laptop) I I have no idea why someone thinks that Mac's don't have
two button mice. I have one and it works fine.
I spend a lots of time working on large scale windows deployments and
enterpise architectures of 25,000 + seats for the US Intelligence
Community and I would not use a Mac for that but for a home or small
business or for an specialized server install they simply can't be
beat. They have a useful life of at least twice what a PC does and s
I've never had a hardware problem on any of the 8 Macs I've owned. If
you can't look at the issue objectively that's fine but to simply say
they're a toy means you really havn't looked at the issue with any
depth.
Allen
Catonsville, MD
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:31:52 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:25:53 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>My experience is completely different. I find XP inherently more stable and
>>reliable the W2k, and so do all of my clients.
>
>
>I had 2000 on a box for a bit. It was pig slow just like all the NT
>based OS stuff that I have tried. I think these things are great for
>IT guys but slow down a single user.
>
>That's my big problem with XP. It's big and it's slow. When I rolled
>the new desktop back to 98 SE, it ran much faster.
>
>Apps loaded faster. Switching between apps was faster. Boot and shut
>down was faster.
>
>None of them boot as fast as DOS and DOS didn't boot as fast as CPm.
>
>I know that the new OS models have more to do - but they do a lot of
>crap that I don't want them to do.
>
>
>
>Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
>Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
>Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
I have spent the last few days setting up after a bad crash. second
one this year, dammit. I'm getting pretty good at cleaning the crap
out of XP. there's a lot of stuff in there that really needs to be
shitcanned before the OS runs well, IMO.
Bridger
> Tom,
> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc.
Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse, hardly
any software, and slow. And expensive.
> The answer to your dilemma is win 2000. I have used win2k for several
years
> and it is stable. On another machine I have XP and cannot stand it. You
> will better off with win 2000 (w2k) with all of your software. You will
not
> have any issues with drivers because if they have a driver for XP than it
> will work on w2k.
My experience is completely different. I find XP inherently more stable and
reliable the W2k, and so do all of my clients.
Tom Watson wrote:
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
MS Access will probably be a problem. Codeweavers'
<http://www.codeweavers.com/> Crossover Office lets you run some Windows
programs, such as Word and Excel, in Linux. There is an Autocad clone
called Intellicad which may be possible to run in Linux using the WINE
Windows emulator. Two of the Intellicad distributors (Bricsnet and
Progesoft) are currently beta-testing Linux versions. There are a number of
Linux CAD programs, most of them pretty rudimentary. See Phrostie's
Cad-Tastrafy site for more information on these:
<http://pfrostie.freeservers.com/cad-tastrafy/>.
Linux can be tricky to set up on a laptop. There's a site called "Linux on
Laptops," or something like that, with information on various models of
laptops.
The suggestion to try Knoppix is a good one. Knoppix needs no
installation--it runs directly from CD. It's pretty good at automatically
detecting your hardware and setting itself up appropriately.
--
--
Steve
> That's my big problem with XP. It's big and it's slow. When I rolled
> the new desktop back to 98 SE, it ran much faster.
XP is a resource hog, that's for sure. You need at least a P4 and 512mb+.
Anything less, especially ram, seriously compromises performance.
> I know that the new OS models have more to do - but they do a lot of
> crap that I don't want them to do.
It really depends on the application. If you want performance, there's a
much higher ceiling with XP. Dual processors, Raid, up to 4gb ram. Almost
all my graphics clients are running dual processor XP boxes stuffed full of
ram. Yet many corporate clients still run W98 desktop boxes and don't plan
to upgrade anytime soon. For word processing, spreadsheets, a bit of
graphics, and email, they're just fine.
At least there's some choice in OS's available. Most desktop business users
are better served by Microsoft, with graphics users it's a toss-up between
Mac and PC, and Linux a strong alternative running on various platforms.
My advice is to do a search for a LUG. Linux Users Group. They are every
whwere and see when one close to you is having an installfest. You show up
with the computer you want to install linux on and there are usually
seeveral linux gurus there. It can be a fun time an hey there is someone
there who can take you step by step through the installation. They usually
have several distros available there and you just may find someone there who
uses linux to do exactly what you want.
I'm currentlly a member of both the GNHLUG and the NNHLUG.
D. Mo
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
> etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
> to time.
>
> I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
> Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:01:02 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>There is a program called Wine which makes Wintel proggies
>work under Linux, so you should be able to run Autocad with it.
wine has a reputation for being buggy. autocad has a reputation for
being demanding. good luck.
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:25:53 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>My experience is completely different. I find XP inherently more stable and
>reliable the W2k, and so do all of my clients.
I had 2000 on a box for a bit. It was pig slow just like all the NT
based OS stuff that I have tried. I think these things are great for
IT guys but slow down a single user.
That's my big problem with XP. It's big and it's slow. When I rolled
the new desktop back to 98 SE, it ran much faster.
Apps loaded faster. Switching between apps was faster. Boot and shut
down was faster.
None of them boot as fast as DOS and DOS didn't boot as fast as CPm.
I know that the new OS models have more to do - but they do a lot of
crap that I don't want them to do.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
mp <[email protected]> wrote:
> My experience is completely different. I find XP inherently more stable and
> reliable the W2k, and so do all of my clients.
Clients... that explains the silly remarks about macs.
Old news that macs are cheaper due to several factors, the most
significant being the cost of support.
Tom,
I've worked with Linux in development environments and found it to be a good
alternative. Installation, however, can still be pretty tricky, and I think
you will have trouble finding something that can work with Access.
Tom Wojeck
Baltimore, MD
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
> etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
> to time.
>
> I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
> Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Real answer? Remember the days of 4DOS and such, and open-source shareware
written by every Tom's Harry to be "as good as?" Linux seems to be in about
that stage right now. Anticipate the unexpected in interoperability.
I still have my GeoWorks disks somewhere. Liked it better'n 3.1, but, alas,
I was one of the few.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:19:48 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
If you decide someday to give Linux a try, here's a link to a migration
guide:
<http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040412/index.html>
-Doug
--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:53:28 -0700,
[email protected] brought forth from the murky
depths:
>On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:01:02 -0700, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>
>>There is a program called Wine which makes Wintel proggies
>>work under Linux, so you should be able to run Autocad with it.
>
>wine has a reputation for being buggy. autocad has a reputation for
>being demanding. good luck.
Wine is free. Isn't there a similar program (not free) which works
better? Also, Autocad is known for being a bit buggy. I've heard
engineers in the next -building- screaming at it when I worked at
Palomar Technology. <g>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If God approved of nudity, we all would have been born naked.
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
http://www.diversify.com Your Wild & Woody Website Wonk
>I'd like to mention that you can install /both/ systems on your
>machine. That allows you to revert to familiar tools when you're
>short on time and don't know how (yet) to get the job done in a
>Linux environment.
>
>Dealing with network compatability issues may depend most on the
>proficiency and cooperation of the network administrator.
>
>There are Linux user groups available that can help if/when you
>have difficulties. I tap into the CIALUG (Central Iowa Linux
>Users Group). A number of these guys are sysadmin types and are
>really helpful. There's probably a LUG in your area that might
>help with installation. The CIALUG hosts what they call
>"Installfests" to which wannabe Linux users can take their computers.
Hey Tom,
Morris has a good suggestion above. I only wanted to point out that
both Linux & Windows can have large or small footprints. It's all in
what you decide to install with the OS. The default Fedora install is
quite large, but it can be pared down, as Windows can be.
As for viruses, etc, Windows leads the pack, however *nix machines are
most often are targets of attacks (according to zdnet, fwiw), in terms
of hacking.
For any OS, be it Mac, *nix, Windows, etc, you'd be foolish to not run
some antivirus program and,(especially if you have broadband), either
a hardware and/or software firewall.
Knoppix, as mentioned earlier, is good as well. My suggestion would
be try running Linux for a week without running Windows, if you have
say a second computer. This will force you to learn how to configure
display settings, network settings, program installation, etc.
Good luck!
p.s. I love your work Tom - great stuff.
Bob
SNIP <As far as all the programs you use, you don't need antivirus
tools because Unix systems (Linux is a version of Unix) are basically
immune to them.>
Sorry - this is simply NOT true and is DANGEROUS and STUPID to
espouse. While it's true that fewer viruses, trojans, worms, etc. are
written to attack Linux systems than are written against Windows, they
do exist in significant numbers. So do security holes, buffer overflow
exploits, spyware and all the other security issues that exist within
Windows. And they DO attack UNIX systems in all their flavors. Just
read the security e-zines, go to a few security sites, do a Google. To
encourage people to do without security software on any OS is
supremely irresponsible. I have been doing system design & software
engineering for about 30 years, I keep state of the art, I receive &
read numerous security e-zines each week. It infuriates me to have
people with hearsay "knowledge" offer simply dangerous advice that
will affect not only the people that follow the advice but also the
entire net. Unsecured, unpatched machines are what is responsible for
the widspread occurance of viruses, worms, etc. Every user has a
responsibility to the net community to keep their machine as secure as
possible. If you don't, you are as bad as the people writing the
malicious code. Anyone advocating not securing machines is, well, I
best leave that unsaid.
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:57:18 -0700, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
[snip]
> I think the only problem is CAD (not an issue for me, I don't use it
> professionally - I just need it for woodworking and today I used it to
> help Marilyn figure out how many curtains she could get out of a piece
> of material), but you might look into using crossover office or some
> other emulators.
CAD shouldn't be a problem. There are many cad progs that run on linux.
Here's one that I use - Qcad - and it runs on Mac Linux Windows, BSD,
<http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html>
-Doug
--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw
The answer to your dilemma is win 2000. I have used win2k for several years
and it is stable. On another machine I have XP and cannot stand it. You
will better off with win 2000 (w2k) with all of your software. You will not
have any issues with drivers because if they have a driver for XP than it
will work on w2k.
There is a great website out there that will tell you how to turn off the
crap in XP and w2k. It is called Black Viper. http://www.blackviper.com/
This guy has done a great job in documenting most of the crap in windows
XP and w2k.
Were you glad u got Rid of win98? I dropped it like a bad habit. The laptop
from which I write
this email came with win98 and a year ago I wiped it out and upgraded the
os to win 2000. It has word, ppt, xls, Norton av, Diskeeper, and other
stuff. It runs great on 320mb RAM and an old P3 266mhz . I had all sorts of
issues with lockups and the LCD blinking. Since I upgraded to win2k. Notta
problem. I was going to replace it ( Toshiba Satellite PRO 4300) and I did
not since the upgrade. I have been thinking of replacing it with RedHat 9
but have not gotten around to it. There really is no need to yet.
I use Linux daily in my job and I would not recommend it based on the
programs you have. There are great alternatives ( Open Office, Ximian, star
Office etc.)
But it would be a major upheaval to you daily routine. I can hear the Linux
Purist's now. If you insist on kicking the tries I would recommend you try
it on your old machine once you get the Dell snafu (BTW, why don't you canx
the order?)resolved.
Or, try installing linux on a VmWare. Cool stuff that allows you to run your
windows applications and switch to a full Linux OS running inside of windows
or you can switch to full screen Linux. Real Cool stuff if you feel
technically challenged.
HTH
Rich
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
> etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
> to time.
>
> I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
> Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It looks like I won't be making the new laptop into a Linux box.
>
> I need to leverage what I already know and I'm already pretty well
> versed in Windoze. I can't really devote the needed time to learning
> the ways of Linux on a machine that needs to go into the bidness world
> fray right out of the box.
Smart move given the situation. :)
> Jeff Thunder had an interesting suggestion - get a second hard drive
> and load some flavor of Linux on that. This would allow me to play
> around with the Linux stuff and get used to it - while not mucking up
> the business side of the machine.
There are several distributions out there which you could use directly
wiThout mucking up your HD. Knoppix is one I know about--it runs
entirely off the CD. It would give you a _feel_ for how things are
moving along in Linux.
Totally free, of course.
> The deal killer is really that I need to use Autocad and I need to
> pass files back and forth seamlessly with coworkers who are, without
> exception, using MS business apps.
The file passing shouldn't be an issue (vide post), but having autocad
work well could be. Have you asked the makers of the system?
> A further concern is how a Linux box would interface with my company's
> network and the Axapta ERP.
I can't speak to Axapta, but Linux, like any othe *nix, can talk with
any LAN out there. Gates didn't invent LAN's. He copied, like most
others.
Wine is a possibility for Windows apps, but there are others. All
have various limitations, as Windows changes things constantly (moving
target idea).
> It seems that Wintel will be the lingua franca of the business world
> for some time to come.
Linux is slowly coming around to address the needs of this area. It
basically comes down to working with a population which doesn't have
the background to do their own setups. (I do not say this with
criticism--it is simply a fact.) Linux was/is a geek's OS.
Outside of that it is excellent, very strong and capable.
> I appreciate all the help and will begin saving my pennies for a spare
> hard drive.
Grab an old box out of the trash at your company and use its HD.
Oops. You have a laptop. How big is the HD? Linux doesn't take much
space... ;-)
> Thanks to all.
Cheers,
Kenward Vaughan
Debian (Sid) Linux
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 02:06:42 +0000, Eugene wrote:
> On my hardware it runs a lot faster. Now I will agree/admin Redhat is not
> faster but they seem to have to mess with everything, other distros are
> much faster (I tried a couple until I decided).
In addition, RedHat is going subscription enterprise only at the end of
this month, but are recommending Fedora for folks who are as cheap as I
am. Currently running RH9 with Ximian Desktop 2, but soon will have to
decide on Fedora or Suse (Novell). Since Novell also owns Ximain, Suse
may be it.
As always, the biggest hurdle in any change is "change".
-Doug
--
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw
Kevin B wrote:
SNIP
> FYI and FWIW, I manage 11 technicians/engimeers and we administer about
> 350 servers for several differnet clients. 70% Windows NT/2K, some Novell,
> the rest are UNIX with a few Linux and about 20 BSD boxes. In truth, I'd
> rather be woodworking for a living.
>
Seems a lot of computer guys think the same thing. My problem is after
working in IT for years its starting to creep into my home hobbies. I was
telling a cow-orker earlier this week that the whole time I was replumbing
my kitchen I kept thinking of ways to run dual redundant water lines with
clustered valves to ensure maximum uptime of the kitchen sink :)
If you're going to make the switch to Open source, try NetBSD
http://www.netbsd.org . Very small foot print, effecient, much more secure
by default than Linux and much steeper learning curve. There's no fancy GUI
to help you through the install--real primative, like foresaking power tools
and using only hand tools. I made the leap to BSD a few years ago when many
Linux distros started getting "hoggy". My home NetBSD firewall runs on a 486
with 32 megs of ram and a 512meg hard drive. I think it has about 18 months
uptime by now.
Either Linux or BSD will have LOTS of free software for you to try. You'll
have to figure out what you need.
On the other hand, and please don't take this as a flame, if you can't
perfromance tune XP and make it run really well on a P4, you may not be the
right type for Linux or BSD.
Also of interest, the new Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD. Unforunately, based
on my experience with my wifes Mac G4, it is the biggest RAM hog I have ever
seen. My wifes G4 boots up using 300 megs with no applications launched!
Despite the ineffecencies, OS X is a decent operating system, and it's good
to see Apple scrap the junk they were selling in favor of (finally) a decent
operating system.
FYI and FWIW, I manage 11 technicians/engimeers and we administer about 350
servers for several differnet clients. 70% Windows NT/2K, some Novell, the
rest are UNIX with a few Linux and about 20 BSD boxes. In truth, I'd rather
be woodworking for a living.
My opinions. Take what you want and leave the rest.
kevin B.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
> etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
> to time.
>
> I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
> Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Eugene wrote:
> Kevin B wrote:
>
> SNIP
>
>
>>FYI and FWIW, I manage 11 technicians/engimeers and we administer about
>>350 servers for several differnet clients. 70% Windows NT/2K, some Novell,
>>the rest are UNIX with a few Linux and about 20 BSD boxes. In truth, I'd
>>rather be woodworking for a living.
>>
>
> Seems a lot of computer guys think the same thing. My problem is after
> working in IT for years its starting to creep into my home hobbies. I was
> telling a cow-orker earlier this week that the whole time I was replumbing
> my kitchen I kept thinking of ways to run dual redundant water lines with
> clustered valves to ensure maximum uptime of the kitchen sink :)
>
>
>
Ah...but did you put in the pretty orange isolated ground outlet for
your toaster? :)
Tim
--
No BoomBoom for me! - [email protected]
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:30:41 GMT, Eugene <[email protected]>
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>>Tom wrote:
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>I appreciate all the help and will begin saving my pennies for a spare
>>>>hard drive.
>>>
>>> You can get 160 gigs for less than a Benjy today. I love it!
>>> Maxtor 40G for $50, WD Caviar 160G for $99. AfreakinMazing.
>>> http://www.pricescan.com/items/item145747.asp
>
>>He said he has a laptop so he would need a laptop drive which is a bit
>>more expensive.
>
> Oops, I forgot that detail. Make that 40G for under a Benjy.
> http://www.pricescan.com/items/item151598.asp
> OR
> make that 80G for just over a Benjy.
> http://www.pricescan.com/items/item152667.asp
> both USB2 externals.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> I'll apologize for offending someone...right
> after they apologize for being easily offended.
> -----------------------------------------------
> http://www.diversify.com Inoffensive Web Design
Well just because its a laptop doesn't mean you have to use external. You
could buy a plain old 2.5" laptop drive for cheaper than those externals.
Then if you want an external, take the old one and but a $25 usb2.0 case
and stick it in.
Since nobody is addressing this paticular issue, I will throw in that you
can just resign yourself to either switching cad programs, get a Windows
emulator or give it up.
"Allen Epps" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:060420041945006907%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> > AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> > Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
> >
>
> Tom,
> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc Lots of graphic
> and design programs including Photoshop. I'll stand by for the flames
> but It's damn pleasant to look at the virus and system compromise
> issues the Windows world is facing form where I sit. The iMac I'm
> working on now is five years old and I basically do exactly what you do
> with a computer. Other than adding some RAM it works fine.
> Allen
> Catonsville, MD
>
> Asbestos underwear on!
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snippage>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
I'm sure you'll get better answers, but I'll toss in what I know...
There is an Office equivalent...Open Office will run on Linux or Windows and
with a few small quirks open almost any Word, Excel or PowerPoint document.
Its a little different then what you're used to in Office, in some good and
bad ways. You have to be willing to let someone move your cheese :) I
don't think there is an Access equivalent in the Open Source world, but I'm
sure Silvan or someone with more knowledge than I can fill you in there.
As for mail clients, I'm sure some of the more hardcore *nix guys will
laugh, but I really like Ximian Evolution. It has a lot of neat features
and will do most everything that Lookout Exploit or Eudora will do with some
more advanced features thrown in too. I know it comes with most of the
newer distributions, but I'm running SUSE here at the house (sorry, I'm a
Novell fan).
Can't speak for the CAD programs as I'm not quite up to that point in my
wooddorking endeavours. But I can say that, for the most part, you needn't
worry too much about anti-virus as most of the script-kiddies out there know
that most of the world runs on Windows. I believe AVG has a freeware
version of their AV software for Linux, but don't quote me on that.
There are also several different Photoshop equivalents out there...I've used
gimp for editing pics, but I'm nowhere as advanced as SWMBO...you'd have to
pry Photoshop out of her cold dead hands.
My suggestion...install it on a spare/older PC and see if you like it. I
have my personal PC at home set up with both Linux and WinXP. Games run
much better on XP (ATI does a crappy job of supporting Linux) but everything
else I prefer to do in Linux.
And yes, I know I'm posting this from Lookout Exploit, but I gotta use what
"the man" gives me at work.
Rob
Its free!
http://forums.amateurtermite.com
McQualude wrote:
> Tom Watson <[email protected]> said:
>
>> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
>> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> Try it. Linux is very easy to install. What is difficult is making
> changes afterward... What you will find is that no one will give you
> 100% of the answer you need and no man page will have 100% of the
> answer. You will spend hours researching the most simple answers, such
> as 'Why did my USB mouse work after installation but not after a
> reboot?' Linux is still a geek OS, it is for people who want their OS to
> be their hobby.
>
> Download Knoppix and burn it to a CD. That should give you a good idea
> if you want to go further with Linux.
> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
>
>> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
>> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
>> the hog.
>
> Linux is not faster than XP. Linux is not less bloated than XP, if
> anything it can be worse. Most distros install everything including the
> kitchen sink, but that's not necessarily bad because it gives you lots
> of doodads to play with.
>
>> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
>> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> maybe
>
> Try Knoppix.
On my hardware it runs a lot faster. Now I will agree/admin Redhat is not
faster but they seem to have to mess with everything, other distros are
much faster (I tried a couple until I decided).
Tom Watson <[email protected]> said:
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
Try it. Linux is very easy to install. What is difficult is making
changes afterward... What you will find is that no one will give you
100% of the answer you need and no man page will have 100% of the
answer. You will spend hours researching the most simple answers, such
as 'Why did my USB mouse work after installation but not after a
reboot?' Linux is still a geek OS, it is for people who want their OS to
be their hobby.
Download Knoppix and burn it to a CD. That should give you a good idea
if you want to go further with Linux.
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
Linux is not faster than XP. Linux is not less bloated than XP, if
anything it can be worse. Most distros install everything including the
kitchen sink, but that's not necessarily bad because it gives you lots
of doodads to play with.
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
maybe
Try Knoppix.
--
McQualude
Allen Epps <[email protected]> wrote in
news:060420041945006907%[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
>> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
>> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>>
>
> Tom,
> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc Lots of graphic
> and design programs including Photoshop. I'll stand by for the flames
> but It's damn pleasant to look at the virus and system compromise
> issues the Windows world is facing form where I sit. The iMac I'm
> working on now is five years old and I basically do exactly what you do
> with a computer. Other than adding some RAM it works fine.
> Allen
> Catonsville, MD
>
> Asbestos underwear on!
>
I get all tingly when I sit down at my eldest son's new dual processor Mac.
Several GBs of RAM. Set up especially for video editing and graphics
rendering, it seems to warp space and time.
But then, $2.5k, plus the monitor(s) ought to buy something!
No wonder big power tools look to be a bargain! And they last a lot
longer, too.
Patriarch
Steve Dunbar <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> The suggestion to try Knoppix is a good one. Knoppix needs no
> installation--it runs directly from CD. It's pretty good at
> automatically detecting your hardware and setting itself up
> appropriately.
Knoppix is the way to go for this situation. Get the CD, try running
it for a while - then if you like the way Linux works, you can format
your disk & make a permanent Linux install.
Knoppix runs directly from the CD and does not affect your Windows
install at all. It's very good at detecting hardware & configuring
itself correctly (at least on desktops - a laptop might be a bit of
a concern since they sometimes have wierd custom hardware).
(being Linux, there are of course alternatives - there's a Mandrake
-on-a-disk now, and 4 or 5 others. I've used Knoppix, tho, and
can vouch for it's ease of setup).
John
OMG OMG OMG!
I just realized something.
Wait - let me go back and measure twice....
..
..
..
No - it's ok, for a minute I though the OP's troll had cause greater traffic
than the infamous Charlie's language, but it's ok, we were saved cause Dave
didn't jump on this thread.
.
yet.
Mike :)
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:19:48 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:
>
>
> > I await the common wisdom.
> >
> > And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
> If you decide someday to give Linux a try, here's a link to a migration
> guide:
>
> <http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040412/index.html>
>
> -Doug
>
> --
> "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always
> depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw
>
J. Clarke wrote:
> mp wrote:
>
>>> Tom,
>>> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
>>> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
>>> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc.
>>
>> Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse, hardly
>> any software, and slow. And expensive.
>
> Since the Mac is a BSD box you've just said that *nix has a Tonka toy
> interface, hardly any software, and is slow. Is that what you intended?
>
MAC=BSD like Internet Explorer = Mosaic. Just because they start with bsd
code doesn't mean it stayed that way. Apple has been known to break as
many standards as MS.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:25:53 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >My experience is completely different. I find XP inherently more stable and
> >reliable the W2k, and so do all of my clients.
>
>
> I had 2000 on a box for a bit. It was pig slow just like all the NT
> based OS stuff that I have tried.
... and even worse if you are using a network server for data storage.
NT box at work would take a second to save a 5 meg file. It was
"upgraded" to a faster processor and Win2000. It now takes about 15 to
20 seconds to save that same 5 meg file. Problem is, that 5 meg file is
a file for an organizer (Keynote). The file is saved every time a
change is made and I navigate away from the application. If switching
between that app and a file it points to (one of the purposes of that
application), I wind up twiddling my thumbs more than doing work. I
finally wound up saving the file locally -- not a good thing, because
local files don't get backed up in our setup.
IT folks have looked into it, their answer is that W2k is just
slow on network transactions.
> I think these things are great for
> IT guys but slow down a single user.
>
> That's my big problem with XP. It's big and it's slow. When I rolled
> the new desktop back to 98 SE, it ran much faster.
>
> Apps loaded faster. Switching between apps was faster. Boot and shut
> down was faster.
>
> None of them boot as fast as DOS and DOS didn't boot as fast as CPm.
>
> I know that the new OS models have more to do - but they do a lot of
> crap that I don't want them to do.
>
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
>
Linux systems are hard to set up for newbies. When I started, it took me
while to learn how to use it because it is so different from Windows.
You can get distributions (redhat, mandrake) that make this easier, but
it is never quite as easy to begin on as windows. You can learn in a
day, however, and once you do, you will love it. As far as all the
programs you use, you don't need antivirus tools because Unix systems
(Linux is a version of Unix) are basically immune to them.
Linux has a very good photoshop replacement called Gimp that I actually
prefer to photoshop. As far as Autocad programs, I am not too sure about
them. Maybe someone else here knows if they exist. By the way, Linux has
a lot of programs that read and write microsoft formats. OpenOffice, for
example, is a good Word substitute.
-Jonathan Ward
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
Tom, I haven't used Linux in a while, although it used to be my
primary development platform, but it is my understanding that
its only deficiency is in games.
There is a package called StarOffice that mimics MS Office.
There are CAD packages, but I don't know how compatible. And
its networking is why Linux powers a lot of Internet servers.
And you won't need anti-virus software :-).
I keep swearing to go back to it, but I just haven't got to the
point of taking the time.
And it will take more time. It's not as simple as installing
Windoze, but it's a lot more flexible.
Customer service is as close as Usenet and if all else fails
you've got the source :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
mp wrote:
>> Tom,
>> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
>> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
>> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc.
>
> Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse, hardly
> any software, and slow. And expensive.
Since the Mac is a BSD box you've just said that *nix has a Tonka toy
interface, hardly any software, and is slow. Is that what you intended?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Hello Tom,
Setup can be a pain and doing some of the things that were second nature in
Windows will require a lot of reading of the man pages.
Installation of software programs can also be quite different. Earlier
versions of Linux/Unix required one to mount the CD/floppy drive and when
finished, to umount them.
Learning the OS will be pretty much uphill for awhile (2-3 months) before
you get comfortable with it. It is quite a bit better thatn Windows on
memory, file, and data management.
As far as what flavour to get, SUSE seems to be taking the place of RedHat
which got all bloated in ego and began charging. I used Slackware for a time
but the installation is something that was a horror! Every little itsy-bitsy
thing it would ask you if you wanted it. And being a novice at the time how
the heck would I know if I needed it. Have never tried Gentoo or Debian. All
the Linux flavours are pretty much the same varying primarily in where some
files are stored.
Star Office is a package that pretty much does what MS Office does and from
what I've seen you can save in the MS format.
A-CAD 2004/5 is NOT available in anything but Windows.
Virus protection is a must on all computers. Most noise./news is generated
about the Windows environment as that is what most users are using. When I
install software on Macs I ask that the virus protection be disabled as it
will interfere at times with some programs' being installed. Ever so often I
hear "I don't run any." I fear the day that some a$$hole writes a
particuarly malicious virus for the Mac as many folks will be hit hard and
IT support will have a lot of cleanup to do.
If the new laptop is big enough, you can try installing a dual boot system.
Have Linux on one patition (actually it would sit on 3 or 4) and Windows on
another. That way you can have your software as well as being able to play
around with Linus.
Note: My own philosophy is that regular users and I include myself, don't
give squat about the OS, the more transparent the better. They just want to
be able to use their software.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
> etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
> to time.
>
> I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
> Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> had 2000 on a box for a bit. It was pig slow just like all the NT
> based OS stuff that I have tried. I think these things are great for
> IT guys but slow down a single user.
>
A little off the topic, but I got a chuckle today. Went in to
Staples to get some CD mailers and saw a Soundblaster card on
their clearance table. I didn't really need one, but picked it
up and was reading the system requirements. To paraphrase:
133mhz for W95/98
200mhz for ME
300mhz for XP
Before long, it'll take a whole gigahertz just to keep Windows
going :-).
The store clerk started laughing too when I told him what I was
laughing at.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I used Slackware for a time
> but the installation is something that was a horror! Every little itsy-bitsy
> thing it would ask you if you wanted it. And being a novice at the time how
> the heck would I know if I needed it.
>
Agreed. But if you've used any Unix/Xenix OS and do know a fair
amount, Slackware is a great distribution and extremely
flexible.
Someone commented that in Unix you really do need virus
protection. I had said that you didn't. What I should have
said is you don't need it if your only connection to the outside
world is a dialup and your ISP does a good job of filtering.
Both of those conditions apply to me - I should not have
forgotten that they didn't apply to a lot of others. Sorry.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
Eugene wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> mp wrote:
>>
>>>> Tom,
>>>> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
>>>> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
>>>> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc.
>>>
>>> Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse,
>>> hardly any software, and slow. And expensive.
>>
>> Since the Mac is a BSD box you've just said that *nix has a Tonka toy
>> interface, hardly any software, and is slow. Is that what you intended?
>>
> MAC=BSD like Internet Explorer = Mosaic. Just because they start with bsd
> code doesn't mean it stayed that way. Apple has been known to break as
> many standards as MS.
So what code that runs on BSD on a non-Mac PowerPC doesn't run on a Mac?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>Wine is free. Isn't there a similar program (not free) which works
>better? Also, Autocad is known for being a bit buggy. I've heard
>engineers in the next -building- screaming at it when I worked at
>Palomar Technology. <g>
There's VMware. I haven't tried it, but I think you can get VMware for
windows so you can run linux under it, and VMware for linux to run
windows.
--
Mike Iglesias Email: [email protected]
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
Tom Watson wrote:
I'd like to mention that you can install /both/ systems on your
machine. That allows you to revert to familiar tools when you're
short on time and don't know how (yet) to get the job done in a
Linux environment.
Dealing with network compatability issues may depend most on the
proficiency and cooperation of the network administrator.
There are Linux user groups available that can help if/when you
have difficulties. I tap into the CIALUG (Central Iowa Linux
Users Group). A number of these guys are sysadmin types and are
really helpful. There's probably a LUG in your area that might
help with installation. The CIALUG hosts what they call
"Installfests" to which wannabe Linux users can take their computers.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
I use/run XP, Win2K, Solaris and Linux @ work.
I use XP @ home.
I choose simply to "conform" at home. Its a battle in which I chose to
surrender, at home.
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
C'mon Tom. Disk is cheap. GHz is cheap.
Are you being pragmatic or is there some dogma involved?
Before I caved @ home - I used tools like Ghost and dual-boot to see if I
could live with Linux on a home box. I decided it wasn't worth the effort.
YMMV.
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 08:02:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:53:28 -0700,
>[email protected] brought forth from the murky
>depths:
>
>>On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:01:02 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>There is a program called Wine which makes Wintel proggies
>>>work under Linux, so you should be able to run Autocad with it.
>>
>>wine has a reputation for being buggy. autocad has a reputation for
>>being demanding. good luck.
>
>Wine is free. Isn't there a similar program (not free) which works
>better? Also, Autocad is known for being a bit buggy. I've heard
>engineers in the next -building- screaming at it when I worked at
>Palomar Technology. <g>
the thing with autocad is it's *old*. autodesk has one hell of a task
on their hands: maintaining and updating hugely complex software in a
fast changing world while maintaining backward compatibility with
decades worth of their customer's custom scripts and add-ons, old
data, old ways of doing things and so on. I have a digitizer built to
run on autocad 10 or so. I don't use it much, but it is supported in
the current versions of autocad.
The instances I have heard of running Autocad under WINE, the results were
not good.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:01:02 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >There is a program called Wine which makes Wintel proggies
> >work under Linux, so you should be able to run Autocad with it.
>
> wine has a reputation for being buggy. autocad has a reputation for
> being demanding. good luck.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:01:13 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>It looks like I won't be making the new laptop into a Linux box.
>>
>>I need to leverage what I already know and I'm already pretty well
>>versed in Windoze. I can't really devote the needed time to learning
>>the ways of Linux on a machine that needs to go into the bidness world
>>fray right out of the box.
>>
>>Jeff Thunder had an interesting suggestion - get a second hard drive
>>and load some flavor of Linux on that. This would allow me to play
>>around with the Linux stuff and get used to it - while not mucking up
>>the business side of the machine.
>
> Excellent idea.
>
>
>>The deal killer is really that I need to use Autocad and I need to
>>pass files back and forth seamlessly with coworkers who are, without
>>exception, using MS business apps.
>
>>A further concern is how a Linux box would interface with my company's
>>network and the Axapta ERP.
>>
>>It seems that Wintel will be the lingua franca of the business world
>>for some time to come.
>
> There is a program called Wine which makes Wintel proggies
> work under Linux, so you should be able to run Autocad with it.
>
>
>>I appreciate all the help and will begin saving my pennies for a spare
>>hard drive.
>
> You can get 160 gigs for less than a Benjy today. I love it!
> Maxtor 40G for $50, WD Caviar 160G for $99. AfreakinMazing.
> http://www.pricescan.com/items/item145747.asp
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> - Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
> - nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
> -------------------------------------------------
He said he has a laptop so he would need a laptop drive which is a bit more
expensive.
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:19:48 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
scribbled:
>OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
>etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
>to time.
>
>I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
>Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
>I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
>unwell ( see supra ).
>
>I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
>delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
>ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
>might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
>this Linux that I have heard so much about?
I am in a similar situation and have made the decision to switch to
Linux in the near future. I have Mandrake 9.1 installed on one
computer & am trying to set up a network. I think I will make the
final switch when Mandrake 10.0 comes out very soon.
>I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
>small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
>the hog.
My understanding is that Linux also usually has a heavy footprint, at
least the current distributions. Geeks, please correct me if I'm
wrong. Although you can also get distros that run off a CD
>I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
>AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
>Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
I've tried Open Office (OO) on my Windows system. I like it. No
problem transferring files in Excel, but some glitches in formatting
with MSWord. I also like the GNUmeric spreadsheet. Unless you're doing
graphic design professionally, I understand the GIMP works as well as
photoshop. I tried it. The many windows totally confused me at first,
but I figured it out with the help of some other wreckers. See the
thread on: "Converting bitmap line drawing to reasonable size GIF"
You've get a plethora of programs to do the email/newsgroup/web
browsing thing.
I think the only problem is CAD (not an issue for me, I don't use it
professionally - I just need it for woodworking and today I used it to
help Marilyn figure out how many curtains she could get out of a piece
of material), but you might look into using crossover office or some
other emulators.
>I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
Dunno.
>Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
>regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
Yes for Word, Excel, Powerpoint. OO has no problem accessing Access
databases, but the front-end stuff does not work.
You main problem will be deciding which of the too many options you
like best, so you can go on other newsgroups and Slashdot and flame
anyone who doesn't share your preferences.
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
Larry Jaques wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> * OPERA: A Latin word * Wondrous Website Design
> * meaning * Save your Heirloom Photos
> * "death by music" * http://www.diversify.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
No, it's Latin for "vomit" I'm pretty sure.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Tom Watson wrote:
> OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
> etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
> to time.
>
> I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
> Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>
> I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
> unwell ( see supra ).
>
> I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
> delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
> ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
> might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
> this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
> small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
> the hog.
>
> I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
> AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
> Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
> regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> I await the common wisdom.
>
> And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
>
>
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
> Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
> Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Linux has progressed in leaps and bounds in the last year or so. Desktops
like KDE and Gnome have as many features as the windows desktop or more.
You have openoffice and Koffice as well as other office type apps to choose
from. You can open, edit and save pdf's just fine. Programs like dia and
kivio are decent drawing programs, Gimp is a very nice photo type editor.
I have tried out a couple CAD programs so far.
Linux gives you choice, with windoes your limited to the little differences
between the 9x and NT based systems. Mac your stuck with their os and
hardware. Linux you can use different distributions, you can use different
hardware, you can have different desktops. Choose your flavor, your color.
Windows and MAC you can have any color you want as long as its black :) i.e
you have to do it their way.
Linux now is no more difficult to install that windows and there is plenty
of documentation on the internet, not just the copies of the support pages
from Microsoft.
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:40:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Eugene wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> mp wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Tom,
>>>>> Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac.
>>>>> Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook
>>>>> mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse,
>>>> hardly any software, and slow. And expensive.
>>>
>>> Since the Mac is a BSD box you've just said that *nix has a Tonka toy
>>> interface, hardly any software, and is slow. Is that what you intended?
>>>
>> MAC=BSD like Internet Explorer = Mosaic. Just because they start with bsd
>> code doesn't mean it stayed that way. Apple has been known to break as
>> many standards as MS.
>
>So what code that runs on BSD on a non-Mac PowerPC doesn't run on a Mac?
a better question might be: What code that runs on a mac runs
*anywhere* else?
It looks like I won't be making the new laptop into a Linux box.
I need to leverage what I already know and I'm already pretty well
versed in Windoze. I can't really devote the needed time to learning
the ways of Linux on a machine that needs to go into the bidness world
fray right out of the box.
Jeff Thunder had an interesting suggestion - get a second hard drive
and load some flavor of Linux on that. This would allow me to play
around with the Linux stuff and get used to it - while not mucking up
the business side of the machine.
The deal killer is really that I need to use Autocad and I need to
pass files back and forth seamlessly with coworkers who are, without
exception, using MS business apps.
A further concern is how a Linux box would interface with my company's
network and the Axapta ERP.
It seems that Wintel will be the lingua franca of the business world
for some time to come.
I appreciate all the help and will begin saving my pennies for a spare
hard drive.
Thanks to all.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 19:19:48 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
> scribbled:
>
>>OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop,
>>etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time
>>to time.
>>
>>I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the
>>Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
>>
>>I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably
>>unwell ( see supra ).
>>
>>I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as
>>delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months
>>ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place -
>>might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on
>>this Linux that I have heard so much about?
>
> I am in a similar situation and have made the decision to switch to
> Linux in the near future. I have Mandrake 9.1 installed on one
> computer & am trying to set up a network. I think I will make the
> final switch when Mandrake 10.0 comes out very soon.
>
>>I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and
>>small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite
>>the hog.
>
> My understanding is that Linux also usually has a heavy footprint, at
> least the current distributions. Geeks, please correct me if I'm
> wrong. Although you can also get distros that run off a CD
>
Even if you install everything in a distro it still takes less space than
windows/office/etc, all the distros I tried did.
>>I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1,
>>AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton
>>Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
>
> I've tried Open Office (OO) on my Windows system. I like it. No
> problem transferring files in Excel, but some glitches in formatting
> with MSWord. I also like the GNUmeric spreadsheet. Unless you're doing
> graphic design professionally, I understand the GIMP works as well as
> photoshop. I tried it. The many windows totally confused me at first,
> but I figured it out with the help of some other wreckers. See the
> thread on: "Converting bitmap line drawing to reasonable size GIF"
>
> You've get a plethora of programs to do the email/newsgroup/web
> browsing thing.
>
> I think the only problem is CAD (not an issue for me, I don't use it
> professionally - I just need it for woodworking and today I used it to
> help Marilyn figure out how many curtains she could get out of a piece
> of material), but you might look into using crossover office or some
> other emulators.
>
I just started searching for Linux CAD and have found many to try, just
haven't had a chance to try out any yet.
>>I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
>
> Dunno.
>
>>Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in
>>regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
>
> Yes for Word, Excel, Powerpoint. OO has no problem accessing Access
> databases, but the front-end stuff does not work.
>
> You main problem will be deciding which of the too many options you
> like best, so you can go on other newsgroups and Slashdot and flame
> anyone who doesn't share your preferences.
>
> Luigi
> Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
> www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
> www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
On 13 Apr 2004 00:32:07 GMT, [email protected] (Mike
Iglesias) brought forth from the murky depths:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>Wine is free. Isn't there a similar program (not free) which works
>>better? Also, Autocad is known for being a bit buggy. I've heard
>>engineers in the next -building- screaming at it when I worked at
>>Palomar Technology. <g>
>
>There's VMware. I haven't tried it, but I think you can get VMware for
>windows so you can run linux under it, and VMware for linux to run
>windows.
It was the latter to which I referred.
----------------------------------------------------------------
* OPERA: A Latin word * Wondrous Website Design
* meaning * Save your Heirloom Photos
* "death by music" * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:44:01 -0400, "George" <george@least> brought
forth from the murky depths:
>Real answer? Remember the days of 4DOS and such, and open-source shareware
>written by every Tom's Harry to be "as good as?" Linux seems to be in about
>that stage right now. Anticipate the unexpected in interoperability.
>
>I still have my GeoWorks disks somewhere. Liked it better'n 3.1, but, alas,
>I was one of the few.
I left my DesqView software in Vista when I moved a couple years
ago. It was something I hadn't needed since Win 3.0. Fond memories
of multitasking and dual monitors before Vinders, eh? That was
back when a "huge" 20MB harddrive cost $300 and memory was only
$100 a meg.
It's spring and time to pay UncleSam his due (hah), put a new drive in
the old computer, and make a LAMP box out of it. I have Mandrake 9 on
disc waiting to go...
-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:01:13 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>It looks like I won't be making the new laptop into a Linux box.
>
>I need to leverage what I already know and I'm already pretty well
>versed in Windoze. I can't really devote the needed time to learning
>the ways of Linux on a machine that needs to go into the bidness world
>fray right out of the box.
>
>Jeff Thunder had an interesting suggestion - get a second hard drive
>and load some flavor of Linux on that. This would allow me to play
>around with the Linux stuff and get used to it - while not mucking up
>the business side of the machine.
Excellent idea.
>The deal killer is really that I need to use Autocad and I need to
>pass files back and forth seamlessly with coworkers who are, without
>exception, using MS business apps.
>A further concern is how a Linux box would interface with my company's
>network and the Axapta ERP.
>
>It seems that Wintel will be the lingua franca of the business world
>for some time to come.
There is a program called Wine which makes Wintel proggies
work under Linux, so you should be able to run Autocad with it.
>I appreciate all the help and will begin saving my pennies for a spare
>hard drive.
You can get 160 gigs for less than a Benjy today. I love it!
Maxtor 40G for $50, WD Caviar 160G for $99. AfreakinMazing.
http://www.pricescan.com/items/item145747.asp
-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------