Yes.
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> But for something so simple as a bookcase?
>
Boy,
Boy in the year hiatus that I took from reading the rec, this newsgroup
has gotten pretty snippy.
To answer the question about needing CAD, it's like any tool in your
shop. Drafting by hand is like using a hand plane for jointing. It's
slow (some might say tedious), but it's relaxing, gives you a more
intimate connection to your work and can be done with a minimum of
investment. But..would I trade in my 6" jointer? Heck no and I wish I
had an 8 incher. I'm fortunate enough to be able to use Autodesk
Inventor during lunch hour or after work. This is a full blown solid
modeller that does shop drawings almost automatically and photo
realistic renderings. I recently did a table and modelled each and
every component with every mortise, tenon, chamfer, etc. Now each
stick has its own print iwth a plan view, two elevations and as many
details as I need. Frankly it makes 2-D CAD nothing more than a
glorified sketcher on the computer.
The real advantages to CAD of course are that it's easy to make
changes, it's easy to draw exactly to scale and make sure that parts
are going to fit (if you make them right). Some will say they are more
creative or artistic with a lead pencil. For someone like me who did
hand drafting for two semesters and CAD since then, CAD makes me a
better designer.
Do what feels right and works for you.
Matt
CW wrote:
> I won't bother explaining. If you really want to know, ask any draftsman
> (besides me).
>
> "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > I just use the drafting skills that I learned while in college.
> > Why bother with CAD stuff when it is so quick and easy to do by hand?
> > Jim
> > >
> >
> >
Super.
CW wrote:
> I don't have a jointer. I do use a plane. I also use cad.
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Boy,
> >
> > Boy in the year hiatus that I took from reading the rec, this newsgroup
> > has gotten pretty snippy.
> >
> > To answer the question about needing CAD, it's like any tool in your
> > shop. Drafting by hand is like using a hand plane for jointing. It's
> > slow (some might say tedious), but it's relaxing, gives you a more
> > intimate connection to your work and can be done with a minimum of
> > investment. But..would I trade in my 6" jointer? Heck no and I wish I
> > had an 8 incher. I'm fortunate enough to be able to use Autodesk
> > Inventor during lunch hour or after work. This is a full blown solid
> > modeller that does shop drawings almost automatically and photo
> > realistic renderings. I recently did a table and modelled each and
> > every component with every mortise, tenon, chamfer, etc. Now each
> > stick has its own print iwth a plan view, two elevations and as many
> > details as I need. Frankly it makes 2-D CAD nothing more than a
> > glorified sketcher on the computer.
> >
> > The real advantages to CAD of course are that it's easy to make
> > changes, it's easy to draw exactly to scale and make sure that parts
> > are going to fit (if you make them right). Some will say they are more
> > creative or artistic with a lead pencil. For someone like me who did
> > hand drafting for two semesters and CAD since then, CAD makes me a
> > better designer.
> >
> > Do what feels right and works for you.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > CW wrote:
> > > I won't bother explaining. If you really want to know, ask any draftsman
> > > (besides me).
> > >
> > > "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > I just use the drafting skills that I learned while in college.
> > > > Why bother with CAD stuff when it is so quick and easy to do by hand?
> > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
I went through this recently. Here's what I found:
* Pencil and paper - works and is useful for quick sketches, but I care
a lot about proportions and it was hard for me to draw accurately
enough to choose proportions correctly. Of course, then there are the
changes...
* DeltaCAD - cheap, has a free trial, and includes a good tutorial in
the help. More accurate than pencil and paper, but is nearly as
difficult to make modifications to the drawing, which I do a lot as I
move stuff around. If you knew exactly what you were drawing ahead of
time, then it would be great, but who knows that?
* SketchUp - It was really difficult for me to place objects in the
right location. 2D is sufficient for me. Struck me as the kind of
tool that you could spend hours and hours drawing as opposed to being
in the shop.
* Visio - I have this for work and find that it is actually the
easiest. Very accurate, allows draw and drop of objects, and allows
you to connect lines, which stay connected as you move. Those are all
very useful as you modify the drawing a lot. You can get a free trial
from the Microsoft site. The standard version, which is all you need,
is about $200, which isn't the cheapest, but is the easiest for me.
Mark
JimR wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
> used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in the
> local shops --
A couple of people mentioned SketchUp. SketchUp is great for the design
and concept phase, but it can create dimensioned drawings also Here's a
few examples of what you can do:
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=wood+bench&ctyp=&btnG=Search
JimR wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
> used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in the
> local shops --
>
>
Try the 3d, free, program from Google - called Sketch Up. I downloaded
it a couple of days ago and it seems to have potential as a furniture
design tool.
I've personally used Argon for 3 years, and while it has a steep
learning curve, and is expensive, it does work well.
Rick
http://www.thuderworksinc.com
"JimR" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
>used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in the
>local shops --
>
$0 -- google sketchup relatively easy to learn and good woodworking
following. very few limits (export formats and photo-realistic
rendering) versus paid version
$130 -- Design Intuition is a program specifically targeted to
woodworkers, has free trial that is disabled to prevent saving and
printing http://www.gizmolab.com
$0 -- Alibre design is a 3-D modeling program that is in some ways
more sophisticated than sketchup, but also has a steeper learning
curve. Limited number of parts could limit usefulness of free version,
although "parts" in the program lingo does not necessarily translate
to "pieces of wood".
Check out http://www.woodbin.com/ for more answers to your question.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
Everybody wants something "affordable". Everything that has been sold since
the beginning of time was affordable, to someone.
Here's a list. Not in any particular order.
Turbocad
Intellicad
Autocad
Autosketch
Deltacad
Solidworks
Proengineer
Solidedge
Designcad
Datacad
The list goes on.
Know how to draw? Drafting, not sketching. If you don't, these programs will
not help you.
"JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
> used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in
the
> local shops --
>
>
CW wrote:
> Is it worth the time and monetary investment
> for the average woodworker? Probably not. Those of us that use cad
often
> forget about the time and effort we have put into it.
<snip>
Without question, CAD is the only way to go, as long as you make the
database investment which is no problem for a manufacturer with
anything approaching a standard product line.
To design and document a one off, CAD becomes another question, IMHO.
I make literally hundreds of free hand sketches for all kind of
projects, but it is something with which I'm very comfortable.
I put myself thru school slinging lead on a drafting table.
At that point in time, CAD wasn't even a wet dream.
Could I compete with todays CAD jockeys in an industrial environment?
No way, but then again, I don't have to any more.
I got out of the drafting room a long time ago, but still find the
skills useful.
Lew
"JimR" wrote in message
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
> used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in
the
> local shops --
I'm partial to AutoSketch only because it took the place of/is the same
program as QuickCAD, once the subject of a magazine article about its
suitability to woodworking, although I used it long before that.
Once a $50 program, it now runs about $120, IIRC.
The program is about as intuitive as they get, and has a plus in that it
will open and let you manipulate AutoCAD files.
CAD is helpful in the shop. Rarely do I do a project without extensive CAD
drawings. The ability to print parts to scale to use as templates is
something I would not like to be without.
YMMV ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/21/06
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I won't bother explaining. If you really want to know, ask any draftsman
> (besides me).
Well, any draftsman would tell you that you need all the help you can get if
you are designing aircraft, cars, buildings, bridges, etc., etc.
But for something so simple as a bookcase?
Jim
>
> "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I just use the drafting skills that I learned while in college.
>> Why bother with CAD stuff when it is so quick and easy to do by hand?
>> Jim
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
"JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
> used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in
> the local shops --
I just use the drafting skills that I learned while in college.
Why bother with CAD stuff when it is so quick and easy to do by hand?
Jim
>
I won't bother explaining. If you really want to know, ask any draftsman
(besides me).
"Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I just use the drafting skills that I learned while in college.
> Why bother with CAD stuff when it is so quick and easy to do by hand?
> Jim
> >
>
>
So, how many guys in their garage workshops fit the discription of "a
manufacturer with
anything approaching a standard product line"?
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
> > Is it worth the time and monetary investment
> > for the average woodworker? Probably not. Those of us that use cad
> often
> > forget about the time and effort we have put into it.
>
> <snip>
>
> Without question, CAD is the only way to go, as long as you make the
> database investment which is no problem for a manufacturer with
> anything approaching a standard product line.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Boy,
>
> Boy in the year hiatus that I took from reading the rec, this newsgroup
> has gotten pretty snippy.
>
> To answer the question about needing CAD, it's like any tool in your
> shop. Drafting by hand is like using a hand plane for jointing. It's
> slow (some might say tedious), but it's relaxing,
I totally agree,,, up to a point. LOL... Relaxing until you discover that
you have made a mistake and find that several LONG lines need to be moved
over and you do not yet own an electric eraser.. :~)
JimR wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can
> be used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located
> anything in the local shops --
Some on here are a full working version,some you have to pay an small fee.
http://www.architectafrica.com/bin0/practice.html
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:25:23 GMT, "JimR" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
>used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in the
>local shops --
>
I just ran into an announcement about ProgeCad LT which can be found
at: http://www.progecad.com/ - I havent tried it but it looks
promising. It's based on the Intellicad model and is compatible with
the Autodesk .dwg format.
The learning curve will be a little steep, so if you want something a
little easier to learn, I'd suggest Sketchup as posted earlier. I
played with it a little bit some time ago and it looks like it has
potential.
HTH
Bill
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Boy,
>>
>> Boy in the year hiatus that I took from reading the rec, this newsgroup
>> has gotten pretty snippy.
>>
>> To answer the question about needing CAD, it's like any tool in your
>> shop. Drafting by hand is like using a hand plane for jointing. It's
>> slow (some might say tedious), but it's relaxing,
>
> I totally agree,,, up to a point. LOL... Relaxing until you discover
> that you have made a mistake and find that several LONG lines need to be
> moved over and you do not yet own an electric eraser.. :~)
I do both. Actually, AutoCad and hand sketches. I gave away my electric
eraser though.
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote
> Yellow pad and several of them pencils.... Learning curve is
> very low and you can use it for fire starter for the projects
> that did not quite make it....
>
>
I posted this over in abpw. I am posting it here for the folks who don't
get binary newsgroups.
*************************
I am going to weigh in here in this discussion of old graphite based drawing
programs versus electron based programs.
I too, took machanical drawing in school. Where (and when) I grew up, it was
mandatory. (Along with home economics for the girls) I have used that
formal training countless times throughout my life. To this day, I can bang
together a drawing and have something made up of wood or metal.
I have used a few consumer CAD programs over the years. I am presently using
CAD Pro. I haven't used it much, but it looks good so far. Any kind of CAD
experience makes the learning and use of any other CAD program easier. And
any kind of mechanical drawing experience makes learning CAD easier.
I am a graphics tablet kind of guy. Those quarter inch grid pages have
prototyped up more projects than I can remember. Including all those who
then migrated to a formal CAD drawing.
I have worked as a writer as well. Even there, I do all my original notes
and outlines on paper. Then I go to the word processor.
There is something comforting and traditional (Neander?) about using a
writing instrument and paper. It is good for my soul. I still use modern
tools. But the traditional ones feel good to me. I will continue to use
them because I am just more creative with them. And there is an element of
creative sensuality about them as well.
Recent on DIY, they had a show (Ultimate Workshop?) about a builder's expo.
There was a product that I have not been able to locate. It is a small,
ridged drawing platform that you lay your paper on. There is a grid pattern
etched into the board. Your pencil then follows the grooves in this base.
It is like graph paper without the visible graph pattern. I would kill for
one of those. I am a big believer in getting those creative ideas down on
paper. Being able to look at the drawings without all those little boxes on
the paper would be nice.
Lee
Yellow pad and several of them pencils.... Learning curve is
very low and you can use it for fire starter for the projects
that did not quite make it....
JimR wrote:
> Does anyone know of a good (but affordable) software program that can be
> used for designing woodworking projects? I haven't located anything in the
> local shops --
>
>
I don't have a jointer. I do use a plane. I also use cad.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Boy,
>
> Boy in the year hiatus that I took from reading the rec, this newsgroup
> has gotten pretty snippy.
>
> To answer the question about needing CAD, it's like any tool in your
> shop. Drafting by hand is like using a hand plane for jointing. It's
> slow (some might say tedious), but it's relaxing, gives you a more
> intimate connection to your work and can be done with a minimum of
> investment. But..would I trade in my 6" jointer? Heck no and I wish I
> had an 8 incher. I'm fortunate enough to be able to use Autodesk
> Inventor during lunch hour or after work. This is a full blown solid
> modeller that does shop drawings almost automatically and photo
> realistic renderings. I recently did a table and modelled each and
> every component with every mortise, tenon, chamfer, etc. Now each
> stick has its own print iwth a plan view, two elevations and as many
> details as I need. Frankly it makes 2-D CAD nothing more than a
> glorified sketcher on the computer.
>
> The real advantages to CAD of course are that it's easy to make
> changes, it's easy to draw exactly to scale and make sure that parts
> are going to fit (if you make them right). Some will say they are more
> creative or artistic with a lead pencil. For someone like me who did
> hand drafting for two semesters and CAD since then, CAD makes me a
> better designer.
>
> Do what feels right and works for you.
>
> Matt
>
> CW wrote:
> > I won't bother explaining. If you really want to know, ask any draftsman
> > (besides me).
> >
> > "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "JimR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > I just use the drafting skills that I learned while in college.
> > > Why bother with CAD stuff when it is so quick and easy to do by hand?
> > > Jim
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:42:56 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Yellow pad and several of them pencils.... Learning curve is
>> very low and you can use it for fire starter for the projects
>> that did not quite make it....
>>
>>
>I posted this over in abpw. I am posting it here for the folks who don't
>get binary newsgroups.
>*************************
>
>I am going to weigh in here in this discussion of old graphite based drawing
>programs versus electron based programs.
>
>I too, took machanical drawing in school. Where (and when) I grew up, it was
>mandatory. (Along with home economics for the girls) I have used that
>formal training countless times throughout my life. To this day, I can bang
>together a drawing and have something made up of wood or metal.
>
>I have used a few consumer CAD programs over the years. I am presently using
>CAD Pro. I haven't used it much, but it looks good so far. Any kind of CAD
>experience makes the learning and use of any other CAD program easier. And
>any kind of mechanical drawing experience makes learning CAD easier.
>
>I am a graphics tablet kind of guy. Those quarter inch grid pages have
>prototyped up more projects than I can remember. Including all those who
>then migrated to a formal CAD drawing.
>
>I have worked as a writer as well. Even there, I do all my original notes
>and outlines on paper. Then I go to the word processor.
>
>There is something comforting and traditional (Neander?) about using a
>writing instrument and paper. It is good for my soul. I still use modern
>tools. But the traditional ones feel good to me. I will continue to use
>them because I am just more creative with them. And there is an element of
>creative sensuality about them as well.
>
>Recent on DIY, they had a show (Ultimate Workshop?) about a builder's expo.
>There was a product that I have not been able to locate. It is a small,
>ridged drawing platform that you lay your paper on. There is a grid pattern
>etched into the board. Your pencil then follows the grooves in this base.
>
>It is like graph paper without the visible graph pattern. I would kill for
>one of those. I am a big believer in getting those creative ideas down on
>paper. Being able to look at the drawings without all those little boxes on
>the paper would be nice.
>
>Lee
>
>
I, too started with mechanical drawing waaaay back in '63. Started
getting paid as a draftsman in '69 and worked on drawing boards until
'91. When I first switched to CAD (MicroStation), I would sketch out
my work, then transfer it to the computer.
It wasn't long before I became comfortable with CAD and it soon became
quicker to create an accurate sketch in cad than an inaccurate one by
hand. Once you become familiar with the tools, many tasks are MUCH
quicker in cad.
My $.02 worth
Bill
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> Yes.
>
> "Jim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> But for something so simple as a bookcase?
>>
>
If I could weigh in here --
I use a computer/printer for even simple chores like shopping lists,
personal notes and addressing envelopes. It's fast and easy and leaves a
trail of results. Whenever I send out a letter or pay a bill where I have
to address the envelope, I add it into my Word table of addresses, which not
only lets me print out the envelope but is a reference for later. Using a
CAD program for wood designs is analagous. Using the computer is a lot more
efficient for me than trying to make and keep paper records.
I was interested in what others use for their woodworking designs, and got
quite a few good ideas. Thanks to all. -- Regards --
There is the key. Everyone has been drawing in one form or another since
they were little kids. Doing it in cad takes learning to do it completely
different than relying on those motor skills that are so easily taken for
granted. No one remembers what a time they had developing those motors
skills in the first place. The breakover point with cad is when you feel as
comfortable drawing on the computer as you do with a pencil. It takes many
hours before that point is reached. Once reached however, the benefits of
cad quickly become apparent. Is it worth the time and monetary investment
for the average woodworker? Probably not. Those of us that use cad often
forget about the time and effort we have put into it. It may have been fun
for us. It may have been a professional requirement. It's neither for most.
I do believe though that most woodworkers would benefit by a drafting class
of some kind whether they continue using the tools (most often cad these
days) used in that class or not. The basics of laying out and detailing a
drawing go a very long way to making any drawing, be it cad, drafting board
or hand sketch, far more useful to the designer.
"carver (remove)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I, too started with mechanical drawing waaaay back in '63. Started
> getting paid as a draftsman in '69 and worked on drawing boards until
> '91. When I first switched to CAD (MicroStation), I would sketch out
> my work, then transfer it to the computer.
>
> It wasn't long before I became comfortable with CAD and it soon became
> quicker to create an accurate sketch in cad than an inaccurate one by
> hand. Once you become familiar with the tools, many tasks are MUCH
> quicker in cad.
>
> My $.02 worth
> Bill
>