On Mar 2, 11:26=A0pm, allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
> Look to see if they have
> DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
Imron is polyurethane, not an epoxy. It can, however, be brushed as
spraying a fence like that would waste a LOT of material and at those
prices you need to think about that.
Other than that, a solid suggestion.
DuPont does offer some industrial epoxies.
On Mar 5, 2:52=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:55:31 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
>
> >> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com.=
..
> >> On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
> >> > IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in yo=
ur
> >> > shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
> >> > enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cos=
t me
> >> > over 800 about 20 years ago.
>
> >> > IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHO=
UT A
> >> > RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
> >> > application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each =
use.
> >> > It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
>
> >> >Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
> >> >resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
>
> >> ACK!! =A0My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when S=
CBAs
> >> were scarce.
>
> >You've much overstated the toxicity of Imron. =A0The real problem with i=
t
> >is that like most urethanes it's a respiratory sensitizer. =A0You can
> >spray it just fine for 20 years and then one day you walk into a room
> >where it was sprayed a week ago and keel over in anaphylactic shock.
>
> >The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
> >component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
> >leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
> >one that supplies positive air pressure.
>
> >Still, it's really overkill for a wrought iron railing unless you are
> >already set up to apply it and have some material left over from another
> >job.
>
> =A0Almost right. The biggest problem is IsoCyanates can not be
> "filtered" out of the air by any conventuional respirator filters.
> Fresh air under pressure is the ONLY safe way to work with
> isocyanates.
> The iso-cyanates are both toxic to the liver AND respiratory
> sensitizers.
Correct. BUT... you can get canisters filter which will filter out
polyicocyanates. They are similar to those used in nuclear plants.
Aside from the particulate filtration, the charcoal component will,
for a short time, filter out those gases.
The positive-air full headgear masks simply allow you to work for
longer periods of time.
On Mar 2, 6:53=A0pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> Zinc chromate is good for alum. But iron?
>
> I have had good results with rustoleum. Like everyone said sand it clean
> to bare metal. I used sikkens m600 to clean the metal, then I painted it
> w/primer then topcoat.
Ahhh yes, M600.. miracle juice.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>
> How good do you want it to be? I went after my basement hatch and my
> railings with a disk sander and followed up with Rust-Oleum and it's
> been fine now for 15 years or so, although it could use a touch-up.
>
> If you want significantly better than that then you're going to spend
> big bucks for an automotive, marine, aircraft, or MIL-SPEC finish (all
> the same chemistry, prices are in order listed).
There is no winning answer when it comes to wrought iron priming.
The best thing is to remove all the rust first and prime the metal
immediately after.
Any good primer like Rust-Oleum or its equivalent will do a fair job lasting
for about
+or - two years.
If you are looking for long term duration (2 to 5 years?) proper cleaning
and chemical washing coated with a good two parts epoxy is a little better.
BTW: Warships and Cruise ships are continually been painted. Soon as the
painting is finished they start all over again. Oil refineries are having a
little more success with two parts epoxy.
"Max" wrote:
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
-------------------------------
Based on you're fire dep't experience, think you'll recognize the
risks of spraying 2 part LP yacht finishes such as Imron, Awl Grip,
etc without the proper safety equipment, including some kind of
temporary spray booth.
Catalyzed resin in your lungs is a slow painful death.
You could apply with a brush; however, getting a good finish on a
fence would be a bitch.
Matter of fact, spraying or brushing a fence would be a bear.
Powder coating offers a lot of advantages, not the least being long
life.
Since this is a civic project, should be several means of securing
some donations to offset the powder coating costs.
Have fun.
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Max" wrote:
>
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
> -------------------------------
> Based on you're fire dep't experience, think you'll recognize the risks of
> spraying 2 part LP yacht finishes such as Imron, Awl Grip, etc without the
> proper safety equipment, including some kind of temporary spray booth.
>
> Catalyzed resin in your lungs is a slow painful death.
>
> You could apply with a brush; however, getting a good finish on a fence
> would be a bitch.
>
> Matter of fact, spraying or brushing a fence would be a bear.
>
> Powder coating offers a lot of advantages, not the least being long life.
>
> Since this is a civic project, should be several means of securing some
> donations to offset the powder coating costs.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
Thanks, Lew.
We've found a source for the paint job. Casa Ford body shop has
volunteered.
It won't be powder coated but it will get clear coated.
And you're right about FD experience and familiarity with
toxic substances, breathing protection, TLVs, etc.
Max
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
> IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
> shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
> enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
> over 800 about 20 years ago.
>
> IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
> RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
> application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
> It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
>
>Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
>resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
ACK!! My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when SCBAs
were scarce.
Max
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:26:20 -0800 (PST), allen476 <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mar 2, 11:22Â am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>>
>> Max
>
>You have about 2 choices here. The rustoleum option would be ok if it
>were home use but since it is a fence for a public area, I don't think
>that it would be a wise solution. Between kids climbing on it, people
>leaning against it, and lawn care, I doubt it would survive more than
>2 years.
>
>1) A good prep followed with a coat of self-etching primer, followed
>by 2 coats of a good quality base primer. Then a good quality epoxy
>paint. This is where having a friend in a auto paint shop is a good
>thing. Finish should outlast all of us and take some wear as well. If
>you want to do it yourself, then a trip to an auto paint store for
>some good advice would be worth your while. Look to see if they have
>DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
Except IMRON is not epoxy, it is catalyzed cross-linked poly-urethane.
>
>2) Powder coating. I don't think that it will take as much abuse as
>epoxy but should give you a very durable finish. You will probably
>have to seek a shop out that can handle something that large and it
>won't be cheap.
>
>Allen
In article <[email protected]>,
Max <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
Galvafroid
--
Stuart Winsor
Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/Metal-primer-508788-.htm
Ponsford wrote:
Max wrote:
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it\'s remotely on topic) ;-)
> Max
-------------------------------------
Ponsford
Sandblast,then wash with cheap wash thinner, then apply a coat of (ospho)
metal conditioner, let dry, apply two coats of Sherwin Williams zinc
chromate,let dry for 48 hours, then two coats of (what ever color) S W
industrial enamel.
You\'ll get a good 5-10 years, depending on environment.
On Mar 2, 11:22=A0am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>
> Max
You have about 2 choices here. The rustoleum option would be ok if it
were home use but since it is a fence for a public area, I don't think
that it would be a wise solution. Between kids climbing on it, people
leaning against it, and lawn care, I doubt it would survive more than
2 years.
1) A good prep followed with a coat of self-etching primer, followed
by 2 coats of a good quality base primer. Then a good quality epoxy
paint. This is where having a friend in a auto paint shop is a good
thing. Finish should outlast all of us and take some wear as well. If
you want to do it yourself, then a trip to an auto paint store for
some good advice would be worth your while. Look to see if they have
DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
2) Powder coating. I don't think that it will take as much abuse as
epoxy but should give you a very durable finish. You will probably
have to seek a shop out that can handle something that large and it
won't be cheap.
Allen
"tiredofspam" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
over 800 about 20 years ago.
IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no reason to spend that kind of money, if you are handy.
I had a very small blower, or a hair dryer without the heat turned on will
work.
Go to your big box store and get 80 feet or so of 1 1/4 inch plastic bilge
hose, or something like that.
Take a respirator mask, and duct tape off one of the places the filters
attach, and tape a 1" PVC elbow on the other place the cartridge is supposed
to go. Attach the hose between the blower and the elbow, and put the blower
out in fresh air, and you are good to go. Cover your skin with a tyvec suit
and hood, and hopefully the respirator was a full face unit, then go at it.
Total cost if you already had the respirator is around 50 bucks. All it
has to do is blow more air than you can breath in, which isn't hard to do.
-- Jim in NC
On Mar 2, 10:22=A0am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>
> Max
google "rust converting primer" or "rust converting paint"
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:56:36 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 5, 2:52Â pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:55:31 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> >[email protected] says...
>>
>> >> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >>news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
>> >> > IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
>> >> > shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
>> >> > enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
>> >> > over 800 about 20 years ago.
>>
>> >> > IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
>> >> > RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
>> >> > application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
>> >> > It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
>>
>> >> >Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
>> >> >resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
>>
>> >> ACK!! Â My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when SCBAs
>> >> were scarce.
>>
>> >You've much overstated the toxicity of Imron. Â The real problem with it
>> >is that like most urethanes it's a respiratory sensitizer. Â You can
>> >spray it just fine for 20 years and then one day you walk into a room
>> >where it was sprayed a week ago and keel over in anaphylactic shock.
>>
>> >The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
>> >component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
>> >leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
>> >one that supplies positive air pressure.
>>
>> >Still, it's really overkill for a wrought iron railing unless you are
>> >already set up to apply it and have some material left over from another
>> >job.
>>
>> Â Almost right. The biggest problem is IsoCyanates can not be
>> "filtered" out of the air by any conventuional respirator filters.
>> Fresh air under pressure is the ONLY safe way to work with
>> isocyanates.
>> The iso-cyanates are both toxic to the liver AND respiratory
>> sensitizers.
>
>Correct. BUT... you can get canisters filter which will filter out
>polyicocyanates. They are similar to those used in nuclear plants.
>Aside from the particulate filtration, the charcoal component will,
>for a short time, filter out those gases.
>The positive-air full headgear masks simply allow you to work for
>longer periods of time.
The problem with the carbon respirators is they have a VERY limitted
effectiveness, and there is NO WAY to know when they have lost their
effectiveness. I believe they are NOT approved by the applicable
workplace safety administrations in canada any more.
On Mar 3, 9:01=A0pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
> IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
> shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
> enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
> over 800 about 20 years ago.
>
> IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
> RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
> application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
> It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
>
> On 3/2/2011 11:26 PM, allen476 wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 2, 11:22 am, "Max"<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> >> (wrought iron fence)
> >> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>
> >> Max
>
> > You have about 2 choices here. The rustoleum option would be ok if it
> > were home use but since it is a fence for a public area, I don't think
> > that it would be a wise solution. Between kids climbing on it, people
> > leaning against it, and lawn care, I doubt it would survive more than
> > 2 years.
>
> > 1) A good prep followed with a coat of self-etching primer, followed
> > by 2 coats of a good quality base primer. Then a good quality epoxy
> > paint. This is where having a friend in a auto paint shop is a good
> > thing. Finish should outlast all of us and take some wear as well. If
> > you want to do it yourself, then a trip to an auto paint store for
> > some good advice would be worth your while. Look to see if they have
> > DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
>
> > 2) Powder coating. I don't think that it will take as much abuse as
> > epoxy but should give you a very durable finish. You will probably
> > have to seek a shop out that can handle something that large and it
> > won't be cheap.
>
> > Allen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
"Denis M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> immediately after.
>
> Any good primer like Rust-Oleum or its equivalent will do a fair job
> lasting for about
>
> +or - two years.
>
> If you are looking for long term duration (2 to 5 years?) proper cleaning
> and chemical washing coated with a good two parts epoxy is a little
> better.
>
>
>
> BTW: Warships and Cruise ships are continually been painted. Soon as the
> painting is finished they start all over again. Oil refineries are having
> a little more success with two parts epoxy.
>
>
>
>
That might be because they are in dirrect contact with salt water and
air.....and other highly corrosive materials.
Zinc chromate is good for alum. But iron?
I have had good results with rustoleum. Like everyone said sand it clean
to bare metal. I used sikkens m600 to clean the metal, then I painted it
w/primer then topcoat. 10 years and still no rust. I'm happy. It needs a
fresh coating to handle the weathering, but no bubbles of rust, nothing.
Still smooth here in NJ where it snows ,blows and burns.
On 3/2/2011 4:33 PM, Ponsford wrote:
> responding to
> http://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/Metal-primer-508788-.htm
> Ponsford wrote:
>
> Max wrote:
>
>
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it\'s remotely on topic) ;-)
>
>> Max
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Ponsford
>
> Sandblast,then wash with cheap wash thinner, then apply a coat of (ospho)
> metal conditioner, let dry, apply two coats of Sherwin Williams zinc
> chromate,let dry for 48 hours, then two coats of (what ever color) S W
> industrial enamel.
> You\'ll get a good 5-10 years, depending on environment.
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
How good do you want it to be? I went after my basement hatch and my
railings with a disk sander and followed up with Rust-Oleum and it's
been fine now for 15 years or so, although it could use a touch-up.
If you want significantly better than that then you're going to spend
big bucks for an automotive, marine, aircraft, or MIL-SPEC finish (all
the same chemistry, prices are in order listed).
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
> > IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
> > shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
> > enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
> > over 800 about 20 years ago.
> >
> > IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
> > RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
> > application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
> > It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
> >
>
>
> >Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
> >resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
>
> ACK!! My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when SCBAs
> were scarce.
You've much overstated the toxicity of Imron. The real problem with it
is that like most urethanes it's a respiratory sensitizer. You can
spray it just fine for 20 years and then one day you walk into a room
where it was sprayed a week ago and keel over in anaphylactic shock.
The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
one that supplies positive air pressure.
Still, it's really overkill for a wrought iron railing unless you are
already set up to apply it and have some material left over from another
job.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:55:31 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
> >>
> >> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
> >> > IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
> >> > shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
> >> > enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
> >> > over 800 about 20 years ago.
> >> >
> >> > IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
> >> > RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
> >> > application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
> >> > It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
> >> >resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
> >>
> >> ACK!! My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when SCBAs
> >> were scarce.
> >
> >You've much overstated the toxicity of Imron. The real problem with it
> >is that like most urethanes it's a respiratory sensitizer. You can
> >spray it just fine for 20 years and then one day you walk into a room
> >where it was sprayed a week ago and keel over in anaphylactic shock.
> >
> >The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
> >component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
> >leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
> >one that supplies positive air pressure.
> >
> >Still, it's really overkill for a wrought iron railing unless you are
> >already set up to apply it and have some material left over from another
> >job.
> Almost right. The biggest problem is IsoCyanates can not be
> "filtered" out of the air by any conventuional respirator filters.
Common misconception. Activated charcoal filters work fine. The
problem is that since isocyanates have no odor you can't tell when the
filter is saturated.
> Fresh air under pressure is the ONLY safe way to work with
> isocyanates.
It is the only legal way for a business to do it in the US.
> The iso-cyanates are both toxic to the liver AND respiratory
> sensitizers.
Please provide a source that supports your contention that isocyanates
are hepatotoxic.
You might find <http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004-116/pdfs/2004-
116.pdf> to be of interest. Note that there is no mention of any effect
on the liver. And that it states that air-purifying respirators are
"not recommended since isocyanates have poor vapor-warning properties".
Nothing about their not working. Here's another, a typical EU data
sheet--note the approved respirator, and the extensive mention of health
hazards with no mention of liver damage
<http://www.habasit.com/media.asp?FI=Tempcol_EN_1009.pdf>
And a third--similar information <http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-
PTG-1-Haerter-e.pdf>.
And here's a publication from the UK Health and Safety Executive
<http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf>. Again no mention of liver
damage, and "The mist is tasteless and odourless and filtering face
masks can fail to protect without warning."
Do you have a source that contradicts these?
On Mar 5, 1:55=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
> component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
> leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
> one that supplies positive air pressure.
Those odourless components are in suspension with components that do
have a very strong, distinct odour... deliberately made 'stinky'.
To say that Imron is odourless proves that yet once again, you don't
know what you're talking about.
Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
over 800 about 20 years ago.
IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
On 3/2/2011 11:26 PM, allen476 wrote:
> On Mar 2, 11:22 am, "Max"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>>
>> Max
>
> You have about 2 choices here. The rustoleum option would be ok if it
> were home use but since it is a fence for a public area, I don't think
> that it would be a wise solution. Between kids climbing on it, people
> leaning against it, and lawn care, I doubt it would survive more than
> 2 years.
>
> 1) A good prep followed with a coat of self-etching primer, followed
> by 2 coats of a good quality base primer. Then a good quality epoxy
> paint. This is where having a friend in a auto paint shop is a good
> thing. Finish should outlast all of us and take some wear as well. If
> you want to do it yourself, then a trip to an auto paint store for
> some good advice would be worth your while. Look to see if they have
> DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
>
> 2) Powder coating. I don't think that it will take as much abuse as
> epoxy but should give you a very durable finish. You will probably
> have to seek a shop out that can handle something that large and it
> won't be cheap.
>
> Allen
On Mar 2, 11:22=A0am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>
> Max
Use DuPont blue metal prep or similar phosphoric acid
treatment before primer to prevent rust from starting
should the paint develop any pinholes (it will). Prime
and paint with Rustoleum.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:01:03 -0500, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com>
wrote:
>Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
>IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
>shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
>enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
>over 800 about 20 years ago.
>
>IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
>RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
>application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
>It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
I would also emphasize the use of a good respitator - MANY painters
have painted without and have not died - yet - but the isocyanates do
build up, and they do damage the liver - and even WITH proper
respirators one can become sensitized to them to the point you need to
avoid them for the rest of your life.
My kid brother was a pretty careful painter for quite a few years, but
if he even gets close to the stuff now his scalp "crawls" and he
becomes VERY uncomfortable.
>
>On 3/2/2011 11:26 PM, allen476 wrote:
>> On Mar 2, 11:22 am, "Max"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>>> (wrought iron fence)
>>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>>>
>>> Max
>>
>> You have about 2 choices here. The rustoleum option would be ok if it
>> were home use but since it is a fence for a public area, I don't think
>> that it would be a wise solution. Between kids climbing on it, people
>> leaning against it, and lawn care, I doubt it would survive more than
>> 2 years.
>>
>> 1) A good prep followed with a coat of self-etching primer, followed
>> by 2 coats of a good quality base primer. Then a good quality epoxy
>> paint. This is where having a friend in a auto paint shop is a good
>> thing. Finish should outlast all of us and take some wear as well. If
>> you want to do it yourself, then a trip to an auto paint store for
>> some good advice would be worth your while. Look to see if they have
>> DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
>>
>> 2) Powder coating. I don't think that it will take as much abuse as
>> epoxy but should give you a very durable finish. You will probably
>> have to seek a shop out that can handle something that large and it
>> won't be cheap.
>>
>> Allen
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 17:58:12 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:55:31 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>,
>> >[email protected] says...
>> >>
>> >> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
>> >> > IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
>> >> > shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
>> >> > enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
>> >> > over 800 about 20 years ago.
>> >> >
>> >> > IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
>> >> > RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
>> >> > application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
>> >> > It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
>> >> >resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
>> >>
>> >> ACK!! My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when SCBAs
>> >> were scarce.
>> >
>> >You've much overstated the toxicity of Imron. The real problem with it
>> >is that like most urethanes it's a respiratory sensitizer. You can
>> >spray it just fine for 20 years and then one day you walk into a room
>> >where it was sprayed a week ago and keel over in anaphylactic shock.
>> >
>> >The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
>> >component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
>> >leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
>> >one that supplies positive air pressure.
>> >
>> >Still, it's really overkill for a wrought iron railing unless you are
>> >already set up to apply it and have some material left over from another
>> >job.
>> Almost right. The biggest problem is IsoCyanates can not be
>> "filtered" out of the air by any conventuional respirator filters.
>
>Common misconception. Activated charcoal filters work fine. The
>problem is that since isocyanates have no odor you can't tell when the
>filter is saturated.
>
>> Fresh air under pressure is the ONLY safe way to work with
>> isocyanates.
>
>It is the only legal way for a business to do it in the US.
>
>> The iso-cyanates are both toxic to the liver AND respiratory
>> sensitizers.
>
>Please provide a source that supports your contention that isocyanates
>are hepatotoxic.
>
>You might find <http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004-116/pdfs/2004-
>116.pdf> to be of interest. Note that there is no mention of any effect
>on the liver. And that it states that air-purifying respirators are
>"not recommended since isocyanates have poor vapor-warning properties".
>Nothing about their not working. Here's another, a typical EU data
>sheet--note the approved respirator, and the extensive mention of health
>hazards with no mention of liver damage
><http://www.habasit.com/media.asp?FI=Tempcol_EN_1009.pdf>
>
>And a third--similar information <http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/s-
>PTG-1-Haerter-e.pdf>.
>
>And here's a publication from the UK Health and Safety Executive
><http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf>. Again no mention of liver
>damage, and "The mist is tasteless and odourless and filtering face
>masks can fail to protect without warning."
>
>Do you have a source that contradicts these?
No, I was just responding to the post that said it was dangerous to
the liver - I didn't check on that and tell him he was wrong - I just
added the respiratory sensitization. My bad.
The repiratory issues are serious enough without liver involvement -
and the sensitization goes beyond respiratory.
On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 01:16:33 -0800 (PST), lektric dan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 2, 10:22Â am, "Max" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>>
>> Max
>
>google "rust converting primer" or "rust converting paint"
Rust conversion primer or paint is NOT required on clean rust-free
metal. Not even the best choice.
You need something to provide "tooth" - sand blasting works well - as
does an etching primer.
Then you need something to provide rust protection. Zinc works real
good for that - galvanizing works on the principal of a sacrificial
coating - and zinc rich primers do the same
Then you need a good sealer. DuPont Corlar is one excellent product of
this type. It is an epoxy and impervious to just about anything.
Dupont PercoTop basically combines the two, and does not require an
etch if applied to freshly blasted clean steel.
Topcoating with DuPont Imron will give you just about as durable and
rust-resistant finish you can get - and both products CAN be
electrostatically sprayed, making the application extremely efficient.
On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 05:37:38 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 2, 11:26Â pm, allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Look to see if they have
>> DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
>
>Imron is polyurethane, not an epoxy. It can, however, be brushed as
>spraying a fence like that would waste a LOT of material and at those
>prices you need to think about that.
>Other than that, a solid suggestion.
>
>DuPont does offer some industrial epoxies.
Imron CAN be electrostatically sprayed - which would, in my opinion,
be the ideal.
On Thu, 3 Mar 2011 06:37:38 -0700, Robatoy wrote
(in article
<[email protected]>):
> On Mar 2, 11:26 pm, allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Look to see if they have
>> DuPont Imron paint. About as good as you are going to get in epoxy.
>
> Imron is polyurethane, not an epoxy. It can, however, be brushed as
> spraying a fence like that would waste a LOT of material and at those
> prices you need to think about that.
> Other than that, a solid suggestion.
>
> DuPont does offer some industrial epoxies.
>
I've used the Dupont epoxy primers (can't recall the name) long ago. They
don't get the surface grip like an etching primer, but if I remember
correctly, they are not intended to be applied directly over bare metal.
-Bruce
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 13:55:31 -0500, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:843a4b82-33c4-4b57-8ee1-802d11ffc3f4@y36g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 3, 9:01 pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hold on there. Before you do IMRON know the risks.
>> > IMRON must be sprayed with a full respirator. Not what you use in your
>> > shop. Its a respirator with a pump, and carbon filter, a hose long
>> > enough to keep the pump outside the contamination area. My setup cost me
>> > over 800 about 20 years ago.
>> >
>> > IMRON on the other hand is one of the most durable paints. BUT WITHOUT A
>> > RESPIRATOR you will DIE. Your liver will be shot in a single
>> > application. The stuff never leaves it, and it builds up after each use.
>> > It doesn't take much to completely kill you.
>> >
>>
>>
>> >Gives the insides of your lungs the same durable, weather
>> >resistant coating as it does your boat / Lamborghini / whatever.
>>
>> ACK!! My lungs received enough mistreatment back in the days when SCBAs
>> were scarce.
>
>You've much overstated the toxicity of Imron. The real problem with it
>is that like most urethanes it's a respiratory sensitizer. You can
>spray it just fine for 20 years and then one day you walk into a room
>where it was sprayed a week ago and keel over in anaphylactic shock.
>
>The reason for the air supplied respirator by the way is that the toxic
>component of Imron has no odor--you can't tell if your respirator is
>leaking or if the cartridge is shot so the only way to be sure is to use
>one that supplies positive air pressure.
>
>Still, it's really overkill for a wrought iron railing unless you are
>already set up to apply it and have some material left over from another
>job.
Almost right. The biggest problem is IsoCyanates can not be
"filtered" out of the air by any conventuional respirator filters.
Fresh air under pressure is the ONLY safe way to work with
isocyanates.
The iso-cyanates are both toxic to the liver AND respiratory
sensitizers.
On Sat, 5 Mar 2011 07:40:31 -0700, Bruce wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:22:08 -0700, Max wrote
> (in article <[email protected]>):
>
>> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
>> (wrought iron fence)
>> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>>
>> Max
>>
>
> Dupont Variprime (or basically any zinc oxide based etching primer)
Errr, make that zinc chromate (the avacado green stuff)
-BR
>
> -BR
>
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 09:22:08 -0700, Max wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):
> Anyone have a recommendation for a really good (clean) metal primer?
> (wrought iron fence)
> (I built it in my *woodworking* shop so it's remotely on topic) ;-)
>
> Max
>
Dupont Variprime (or basically any zinc oxide based etching primer)
-BR