Can you identify type of wood from late 1700's and mid 1800's??

blueman wrote:
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> late 1700's.
>
> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>
> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>
> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
> Thanks for the help!!!

1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. By the color variations
(sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
photo could use some color correction.


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]

> All the floors (except for the 2nd floor guest which is pretty rough)
> were thoroughly sanded and polyurethaned just over 5 years ago -- so
> that shouldn't contribute to the difference.

It most certainly can. Some of your old floors may have been covered
with a rug, affecting the patina that was subsequently formed.

> The kitchen (to my novice eyes) looks very different from all the other
> wood with different grain pattern, color, and streaks of sap vs. heart
> wood.

I'll stick with the opinion that all of it is longleaf pine, even in
the kitchen. I may be wrong about the kitchen, despite your further
description. That new flooring hasn't been affected, long term, as
the rest of the flooring. See below for drilling recommendation/test.

> Even the 1st and 2nd floor halls (which are the same by the way as the
> other formal rooms on the first floor) look very different from the the m=
ore
> private areas (2nd floor bedroom, 3rd floor hall, 2nd floor guest). The
> grain is much tighter and straighter, there are no visible knots, and
> the color is darker amber vs. the more yellow "pine" color of the
> private areas. I had always assumed that was consistent with
> cheap-ole-yankees only using the best wood for the public areas.
>
> Do you think they are really all the same species of pine?

Yes. What you have further described is consistent with longleaf
pine, which is the very assets that made it a flooring material of
choice. Additionally, to those descriptive aspects, are the rays seen
in the wood in all but the kitchen pics (can't see, that, close/well
enough)

> > What I find odd is that some areas seem
> > to be toe-nailed (kitchen) and others are face-nailed. =EF=BF=BDI wonde=
r if
> > that face-nailing is original (I think not).
>
> The nailing in the old parts (everything but the kitchen) is indeed face
> nailed with what appear to be hand made cut nails. In the basement you
> can see the nails poking through the subfloor by 2-3 inches! and the
> exposed portion is rusty and a bit curled. I don't know if the face nails
> were original or added over the years but they certainly don't seem to
> be anything modern...
>
> > Can you cut a piece (even a small piece) and smell it? =EF=BF=BDPine sh=
ould
> > still have, at least, a hint of the turpentine smell, even after all
> > these years.
>
> I wish I could and I will if I ever find a spare piece...

In an inconspicuous area, with a 1/8" drill bit, drill 1/8" down,
clean the bit of "contminated" cuttings, then continue to drill into
the center of some boards for a sample of non-contaminated wood.
Smell the drilled cuttings. Those small drilled holes can be easily
filled with no damaging/unsightly/or otherwise negative effects.

If you can, determine what kind of lumber the joists/beams/etc is,
what the flooring is nailed into. Often times, the same lumber was
used for floor framing/support. I may get debate on this matter, LOL,
but I'm looking for pine lumber being consistently used in the home.

Sonny

On Jan 31, 8:45=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> blueman wrote:
> > All wood in the house is (unfortunately) pretty soft.
>
> > I agree that 3rd floor, 2nd floor bedroom, 2nd floor guest and
> > probably the stairs look like pine - based on color and grain. But
> > the 1st and 2nd floor halls look very different from the pine that I
> > am used to. Any toughts there?
>
> It's edge grain - quartered. =A0Lucky you =A0:)
>
> To me, all of it looks more like Douglas fir than pine but I wouldn't thi=
nk
> you'd have that, especially that mfrom the late 1700s. =A0The same for th=
e
> newer...why import yellow pine from the south or west when there was stil=
l
> beaucoup wood locally? =A0White pine maybe? =A0I don't have much experien=
ce with
> that so can't say.

I once used some yellow pine to make a valance that matched the doug
fir trim in my 1940s mother-in-law's house in Ontario. looks very
much like it. Also larch or tamarack looks a lot like doug fir.

Could it not be red pine? IIRC it also has the same grain as yellow,
but is softer.

The grain is too pronounced for white pine.

On Jan 31, 7:50=A0am, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
> blueman wrote:
> > Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> > The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> > Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> > late 1700's.
>
> > The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
> > oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
> > 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> > =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wro=
ng)
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>
> > 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> > =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wro=
ng)
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>
> > 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
> > 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
> > 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
> > 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> > =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
> > Thanks for the help!!!
>
> =A0 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. =A0By the color variations
> (sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
> photo could use some color correction.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]

I'm with Nova on the Yellow Pine. Not so sure with the Kitchen. If
you took pics digitally, you might check your white balance setting
against lighting (fluorescent, incandescent, etc) and resubmit. It
could be Cherry but the color doesn't look right.

RonB

On Jan 31, 6:42=A0am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:

> No, look at the grain. I'm not sure what the kitchen *is*, but unquestion=
ably
> it is *not* cherry. If it's a hardwood at all -- which I very much doubt =
--
> it's probably elm.

The 'elm' hypothesis is unlikely; that wood was notoriously difficult
to
work, and the time period suggests carbide saws were not in use.
Old hardwood (of this vintage) could be American chestnut; it was
widely used, before the blight took it all away. Or, almost all
(there
are reportedly some isolated stands remaining).

On Jan 30, 10:06=A0pm, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> late 1700's.
>
> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong=
)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>
> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong=
)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>
> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
> Thanks for the help!!!

I'm surpised nobody suggested getting a copy of Bruce Hoadley'
"Identifying Wood" and a microscope & finding out what they really
are. Hoadley is in your neck of the woods at the UofMass. at Amherst.

It all looks like southern yellow pine, to me. Pretty common flooring in
"common folk" housing straight through to the early 1900's (the 20's or so).
It's harder than most pine and despite the "southern" designation, it grew
up and down the eastern seaboard. The kitchen night be fir but I doubt it.
The only 2 things that stick out about it is they are all even width (3"?)
and there is some sapwood in it. All of the other rooms are all heartwood
and random width.

None of it is cherry, for sure.

Ed

"blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> On 1/31/2010 12:06 AM, blueman wrote:
>>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>>
>>> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>>> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>>> late 1700's.
>>>
>>> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>>> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>>
>>> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>>
>>> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>>
>>> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>>
>>> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>>
>>> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>>
>>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>
>> Looks very much like old growth heart pine ... some of it matched
>> vertical grain (quarter sawn).
>
> Based on color and grain, I had thought that the 3rd floor hall and 2nd
> floor bedroom along with probably the 2nd floor guest room (and maybe
> even the stairs) were pine.
>
> But I am surprised that the 1st and 2nd floor hall flooring is also
> pine. The grain is so much tighter and straighter and the color so much
> more orange (vs. the yellow of the other pine) that I was sure it must
> be a different wood. Could the difference all be explained by being
> quarter sawn?
>
> The fact that the first and 2nd floor halls (which are the same as the
> dining room, living room, parlor) is a "better" wood and/or cut makes
> sense since the old-time Yankees were known to be "cheap" - putting the
> best wood in the most public spaces.
>
> Similarly, the (new) kitchen floor looks very different - based on color,
> grain pattern, and presence of streaks of sapwood. I had thought maybe
> it was fir but that was just a guess. In any case, it looks very
> different from all the other woods.
>
> Unfortunately, all the floors are quite soft and susceptible to
> scratching and denting... which would be consistent with woods like
> pine.
>

If you shoot a 94% white or such sheet of paper and
place a ruler in the shot - more information can be gained.

Martin

blueman wrote:
> RonB <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> On Jan 31, 7:50 am, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> blueman wrote:
>>>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>>> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>>>> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>>>> late 1700's.
>>>> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>>>> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>>> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>>>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>>> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>>>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>>> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>>> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>>> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>>> Thanks for the help!!!
>>> 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. By the color variations
>>> (sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
>>> photo could use some color correction.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jack Novak
>>> Buffalo, NY - USA
>>> [email protected]
>> I'm with Nova on the Yellow Pine. Not so sure with the Kitchen. If
>> you took pics digitally, you might check your white balance setting
>> against lighting (fluorescent, incandescent, etc) and resubmit. It
>> could be Cherry but the color doesn't look right.
>>
>> RonB
>
> It was done with a good digital camera using flash - color is pretty
> reasonable. I don't think kitchen is cherry either.
>
> All wood in the house is (unfortunately) pretty soft.
>
> I agree that 3rd floor, 2nd floor bedroom, 2nd floor guest and probably
> the stairs look like pine - based on color and grain. But the 1st and
> 2nd floor halls look very different from the pine that I am used to. Any
> toughts there?

On Jan 31, 1:06=A0am, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> late 1700's.
>
> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong=
)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>
> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong=
)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>
> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
> Thanks for the help!!!

All of it appears to be yellow and or white pine, the kitchen baffles
me a bit but I'd hazard to guess that it could be birch. (I have seen
it that tight and that colour.) Second guess would be Douglas Fir in
the kitchen. But it almost certainly isn't cherry.

On Jan 31, 1:06=A0am, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> late 1700's.
>
> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong=
)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>
> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> =A0 =A0(I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong=
)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>
> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
> Thanks for the help!!!

I vote white pine, quartersawn in the kitchen.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:26:58 -0800 (PST), the infamous RonB
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>I'm with Nova on the Yellow Pine. Not so sure with the Kitchen. If
>you took pics digitally, you might check your white balance setting
>against lighting (fluorescent, incandescent, etc) and resubmit. It
>could be Cherry but the color doesn't look right.

VG cherry with that look? Please send support pics.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On 1/31/2010 12:06 AM, blueman wrote:
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> late 1700's.
>
> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>
> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>
> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg

Looks very much like old growth heart pine ... some of it matched
vertical grain (quarter sawn).

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
[...]

You have plenty of expert opinions. As someone who is a professional in old
buildings I can tell you there is no way to positively identify a species
from looking at it. Distinguishing between softwoods is especially
difficult. if the timber is really felled in the eighteenth century it will
not necessary fall into the categories of off the shelf building timber that
you get today.

When I last spoke to a specialist in timber in old buildings he told me that
the only judgement he would make with certainty by just looking at timber
was to sometimes declare it 'not oak'. None of your floors are oak.

Tim W

Note that I was referring to the part of the house from the 18th century...
The latter part was built at a time when sub-floor/finish floor would have
been more common.


"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Sonny <[email protected]> writes:
>>> I'm almost positive all of it is Longleaf Pine. Even the new kitchen
>>> floor may be reclaimed Longleaf Pine that has been sanded or planed,
>>> hence the different "color".
>>
>> All the floors (except for the 2nd floor guest which is pretty rough)
>> were thoroughly sanded and polyurethaned just over 5 years ago -- so
>> that shouldn't contribute to the difference.
>>
>> The kitchen (to my novice eyes) looks very different from all the other
>> wood with different grain pattern, color, and streaks of sap vs. heart
>> wood.
>>
>> Even the 1st and 2nd floor halls (which are the same by the way as the
>> other formal rooms on the first floor) look very different from the the
>> more
>> private areas (2nd floor bedroom, 3rd floor hall, 2nd floor guest). The
>> grain is much tighter and straighter, there are no visible knots, and
>> the color is darker amber vs. the more yellow "pine" color of the
>> private areas. I had always assumed that was consistent with
>> cheap-ole-yankees only using the best wood for the public areas.
>>
>> Do you think they are really all the same species of pine?
>>
>>> What I find odd is that some areas seem
>>> to be toe-nailed (kitchen) and others are face-nailed. I wonder if
>>> that face-nailing is original (I think not).
>>
>> The nailing in the old parts (everything but the kitchen) is indeed face
>> nailed with what appear to be hand made cut nails. In the basement you
>> can see the nails poking through the subfloor by 2-3 inches! and the
>> exposed portion is rusty and a bit curled. I don't know if the face nails
>> were original or added over the years but they certainly don't seem to
>> be anything modern...
>
> The fact that there is a sub-floor makes me think the finish floors may
> not original to the structure... This based on what I've seen both here in
> NY, living in a city with buildings that date from the 1670s through the
> present, and during my time working in Williamsburg, VA in the restored
> area. I think it would have been more common to find the floor to be THE
> floor, both structural and finished, in the late 1700s. The flooring would
> have been nailed directly to the supporting structure, i.e,. joists, so
> you wouldn't see the nails. I'm speculating here based on my personal
> experiences, and I'm sure there are exceptions, but it may be worth
> exploring this possibility.
>
> For what it's worth, most of the floors look like pine to me and the other
> fir.
>
> John
>
>
>

> Forest Products Laboratories will identify it for you if you can provide
> them a sample. =EF=BF=BDNo charge--your tax dollars at work.http://www2.f=
pl.fs.fed.us/WoodID/idfact.html- Hide quoted text -

Related idea or "Who's Ya Daddy?" option:
Send some "drill" samples to your local university for a student to do
a DNA analysis, quite likely at no charge for a dedicated student in a
diversified field (forestry-genetics), that way. I'm sure there is,
also, an online site with reference to a facility that has DNA
analysis results or some sort of comparative data. University of NC
would likely have that info/data/student/etc., I'm thinking. Maybe,
these days, even the Forestry Products Laboratory would have DNA data
for identifying wood products. Note: What specific kind of DNA
testing is required to be performed, if applicable?

Sonny

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:06:32 -0500, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:

>Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
>The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>late 1700's.


I'm a little baffled by the construction history. THe guest room and
kitchen were built in the late 1700's, but the main part of the house
in the 1860's?

I'm guessing the "main part" was a significant addition to a much
smaller house. But the wood looks verrrry similar.

But it's OK, I'k often confused.

-Zz

I'm almost positive all of it is Longleaf Pine. Even the new kitchen
floor may be reclaimed Longleaf Pine that has been sanded or planed,
hence the different "color". What I find odd is that some areas seem
to be toe-nailed (kitchen) and others are face-nailed. I wonder if
that face-nailing is original (I think not).

Can you cut a piece (even a small piece) and smell it? Pine should
still have, at least, a hint of the turpentine smell, even after all
these years.

Sonny

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:50:32 -0500, the infamous Nova
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>blueman wrote:
>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>
>> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>> late 1700's.
>>
>> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>
>> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>
>> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>
>> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>
>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>
>> Thanks for the help!!!
>
> 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me.

Yeah, with tht exception of the first two, which could have been
hemlock or just VG pine.


>By the color variations
>(sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
>photo could use some color correction.

Nah, definitely not cherry. It's a vertical grain, but pine again.
All the pics look like softwood. I had pine flooring in my old house
in Vista, CA, so the look was familiar when I saw these pics.

3rd floor looks much newer/narrower, as does half the 2nd floor guest.
The kitchen is newer, too.

Blueman, if you're having work done on them, check with several older
flooring guys who'll have more knowledge about requirements for
blending new wood into old. It's an art. I knew a younger carpetlayer
who was fairly knowledgeable but he always used the older guys for at
least a consult on wood flooring projects, and they always looked
good.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

In article <[email protected]>, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
>The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>late 1700's.
>
>The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>
>1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg

Looks like spruce to me. I think all the others are, too, except #2, which
looks more like white pine.
>
>2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg

>3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>
>4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>
>5. Guest room (late 1700's)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>
>6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
>Thanks for the help!!!

In article <[email protected]>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>blueman wrote:
>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
[...]
>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>
>> Thanks for the help!!!
>
> 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. By the color variations
>(sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
>photo could use some color correction.

No, look at the grain. I'm not sure what the kitchen *is*, but unquestionably
it is *not* cherry. If it's a hardwood at all -- which I very much doubt --
it's probably elm. IMO, it's spruce, maybe Douglas fir.

blueman wrote:
> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>
> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
> late 1700's.
...
I'm w/ Swing on this 'un.

Highly improbable for SYP at that time in MA.

Better would be to see an underside w/o the finish if possible access to
do so but I'd be pretty confident.

--

blueman wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> On 1/31/2010 12:06 AM, blueman wrote:
>>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>>
>>> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>>> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>>> late 1700's.
>>>
>>> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>>> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>>
>>> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>>
>>> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>>
>>> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>>
>>> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>>
>>> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>>
>>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>> Looks very much like old growth heart pine ... some of it matched
>> vertical grain (quarter sawn).
>
> Based on color and grain, I had thought that the 3rd floor hall and 2nd
> floor bedroom along with probably the 2nd floor guest room (and maybe
> even the stairs) were pine.
>
> But I am surprised that the 1st and 2nd floor hall flooring is also
> pine. The grain is so much tighter and straighter and the color so much
> more orange (vs. the yellow of the other pine) that I was sure it must
> be a different wood. Could the difference all be explained by being
> quarter sawn?
>
> The fact that the first and 2nd floor halls (which are the same as the
> dining room, living room, parlor) is a "better" wood and/or cut makes
> sense since the old-time Yankees were known to be "cheap" - putting the
> best wood in the most public spaces.
>
> Similarly, the (new) kitchen floor looks very different - based on color,
> grain pattern, and presence of streaks of sapwood. I had thought maybe
> it was fir but that was just a guess. In any case, it looks very
> different from all the other woods.
>
> Unfortunately, all the floors are quite soft and susceptible to
> scratching and denting... which would be consistent with woods like
> pine.

And inconsistent w/ SYP which is significantly harder than the white pines.

I couldn't see all the pictures (w/ dialup the resolution was such as
didn't want to wait) but I'd take Swing's take seriously based on what I
did look at.

OK, I did look at the new kitchen just now -- same comment as before
wish could see w/o the glare and the finish. It's outside possible fir;
if so it should be significantly harder than the pine. But, the finish
is such I'd not rule out pine--it's random cut; you can see some are
pretty narrow quarter-sawn while other is face grain. The marked
contrast there is a hint towards the fir I'll grant. Again, there's
quite a lot of glare and the yellow cast is mostly finish/lighting I wager??

--

In article <[email protected]>, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Doug Miller) writes:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Nova
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>blueman wrote:
>>>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>> [...]
>>>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the help!!!
>>>
>>> 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. By the color variations
>>>(sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
>>>photo could use some color correction.
>>
>> No, look at the grain. I'm not sure what the kitchen *is*, but unquestionably
>
>> it is *not* cherry. If it's a hardwood at all -- which I very much doubt --
>> it's probably elm. IMO, it's spruce, maybe Douglas fir.
>
>I would guess it is a softwood since unfortunately for a kitchen, the
>floor scratches and dents *very easily*. I would have guessed fir but I
>am at best a novice at understanding wood...
>
>Any pointers on how to narrow it down?

The best way to narrow it down is an on-site inspection by someone who knows
wood, preferably someone who's familiar with the types of wood used in house
construction in your area two hundred years ago.

But does it really matter? There's a solid consensus here that you have some
species of softwood; most of the guys seem to think it's pine, but my money is
still on spruce, but either way, what difference does it make?

dadiOH wrote:
> blueman wrote:
>> All wood in the house is (unfortunately) pretty soft.
>>
>> I agree that 3rd floor, 2nd floor bedroom, 2nd floor guest and
>> probably the stairs look like pine - based on color and grain. But
>> the 1st and 2nd floor halls look very different from the pine that I
>> am used to. Any toughts there?
>
> It's edge grain - quartered. Lucky you :)
>
> To me, all of it looks more like Douglas fir than pine but I wouldn't
> think you'd have that, especially that mfrom the late 1700s. The
> same for the newer...why import yellow pine from the south or west
> when there was still beaucoup wood locally? White pine maybe? I
> don't have much experience with that so can't say.
>
> The kitchen isn't a hardwood, looks pretty much like all he rest.

Forest Products Laboratories will identify it for you if you can provide
them a sample. No charge--your tax dollars at work.
http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/WoodID/idfact.html

Sonny wrote:
>> Forest Products Laboratories will identify it for you if you can
>> provide
>> them a sample. �No charge--your tax dollars at
>> work.http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/WoodID/idfact.html- Hide quoted text
>> -
>
> Related idea or "Who's Ya Daddy?" option:
> Send some "drill" samples to your local university for a student to do
> a DNA analysis, quite likely at no charge for a dedicated student in a
> diversified field (forestry-genetics), that way. I'm sure there is,
> also, an online site with reference to a facility that has DNA
> analysis results or some sort of comparative data. University of NC
> would likely have that info/data/student/etc., I'm thinking. Maybe,
> these days, even the Forestry Products Laboratory would have DNA data
> for identifying wood products. Note: What specific kind of DNA
> testing is required to be performed, if applicable?

That's a good thought but right now the development of a forestry DNA
database is in its infancy.

Nova <[email protected]> writes:
> blueman wrote:
>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>
>> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>> late 1700's.
>>
>> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>
>> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>
>> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>
>> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>
>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>
>> Thanks for the help!!!
>
> 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. By the color variations
> (sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
> photo could use some color correction.

For what it's worth, colors are pretty much the way it looks though
perhaps a tinge to orangy (but not much).

"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> writes:

> Note that I was referring to the part of the house from the 18th
> century... The latter part was built at a time when sub-floor/finish
> floor would have been more common.

I think you are right there. Definitely a subfloor (using wide planks)
on the part build in mid-nineteenth century. I haven't taken up the
floor in the late 18th century part, but I wouldn't at all be surprised
if there were no sub-floor there.

Thanks

Zz Yzx <[email protected]> writes:

> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:06:32 -0500, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>
>>The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>>Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>>late 1700's.
>
>
> I'm a little baffled by the construction history. THe guest room and
> kitchen were built in the late 1700's, but the main part of the house
> in the 1860's?
>
> I'm guessing the "main part" was a significant addition to a much
> smaller house. But the wood looks verrrry similar.

Yes - the "new" 1860's part is much fancier - Italianate Mansard.
The late 1700's was probably more modest. Don't know the detailed
history though...

> But it's OK, I'k often confused.

Nope - you got it right.

Swingman <[email protected]> writes:

> On 1/31/2010 12:06 AM, blueman wrote:
>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>
>> The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>> Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>> late 1700's.
>>
>> The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>> oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>
>> 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>
>> 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>> (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>
>> 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>
>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>
> Looks very much like old growth heart pine ... some of it matched
> vertical grain (quarter sawn).

Based on color and grain, I had thought that the 3rd floor hall and 2nd
floor bedroom along with probably the 2nd floor guest room (and maybe
even the stairs) were pine.

But I am surprised that the 1st and 2nd floor hall flooring is also
pine. The grain is so much tighter and straighter and the color so much
more orange (vs. the yellow of the other pine) that I was sure it must
be a different wood. Could the difference all be explained by being
quarter sawn?

The fact that the first and 2nd floor halls (which are the same as the
dining room, living room, parlor) is a "better" wood and/or cut makes
sense since the old-time Yankees were known to be "cheap" - putting the
best wood in the most public spaces.

Similarly, the (new) kitchen floor looks very different - based on color,
grain pattern, and presence of streaks of sapwood. I had thought maybe
it was fir but that was just a guess. In any case, it looks very
different from all the other woods.

Unfortunately, all the floors are quite soft and susceptible to
scratching and denting... which would be consistent with woods like
pine.

Sonny <[email protected]> writes:
> I'm almost positive all of it is Longleaf Pine. Even the new kitchen
> floor may be reclaimed Longleaf Pine that has been sanded or planed,
> hence the different "color".

All the floors (except for the 2nd floor guest which is pretty rough)
were thoroughly sanded and polyurethaned just over 5 years ago -- so
that shouldn't contribute to the difference.

The kitchen (to my novice eyes) looks very different from all the other
wood with different grain pattern, color, and streaks of sap vs. heart
wood.

Even the 1st and 2nd floor halls (which are the same by the way as the
other formal rooms on the first floor) look very different from the the more
private areas (2nd floor bedroom, 3rd floor hall, 2nd floor guest). The
grain is much tighter and straighter, there are no visible knots, and
the color is darker amber vs. the more yellow "pine" color of the
private areas. I had always assumed that was consistent with
cheap-ole-yankees only using the best wood for the public areas.

Do you think they are really all the same species of pine?

> What I find odd is that some areas seem
> to be toe-nailed (kitchen) and others are face-nailed. I wonder if
> that face-nailing is original (I think not).

The nailing in the old parts (everything but the kitchen) is indeed face
nailed with what appear to be hand made cut nails. In the basement you
can see the nails poking through the subfloor by 2-3 inches! and the
exposed portion is rusty and a bit curled. I don't know if the face nails
were original or added over the years but they certainly don't seem to
be anything modern...

> Can you cut a piece (even a small piece) and smell it? Pine should
> still have, at least, a hint of the turpentine smell, even after all
> these years.

I wish I could and I will if I ever find a spare piece...

Swingman <[email protected]> writes:

> On 1/31/2010 6:11 PM, blueman wrote:
>
>> Second, there are some areas of flooring that I want to eventually patch
>> and other areas that I might want to match when we do renovations. So,
>> it would be helpful to know as precisely as possible what type of wood I
>> am dealing with. Since the wood is old, I would like to be on the
>> "lookout" for acquiring similar old samples ripped out of other houses
>> that I would store for future use in my house -- but I can't do that
>> without at least knowing more about the type of wood actually in my
>> house.
>
> There are a lot of resources out there for old growth lumber,
> especially flooring. I recently built a house where we bought
> structural pine from an old tobacco warehouse in North Carolina
> through a broker and had 2000sf milled for 5 1/2" flooring for a total
> cost of just under $11k (+/- $5.40sf), delivered to the Austin, TX
> vicinity.
>
> Which in my experience as a builder, is not all that bad considering
> it was exactly what the client wanted.
>
> There were a number of similar deals on the web, so there was plenty
> to pick and choose from.
>
> A good place to start your search locally is a retailer that
> specializes in recycled products of all types, like this outfit in
> Austin which brokered the above deal:
>
> http://www.ecowise.com/
>
> The advice to get an up close and personal professional opinion is
> sound, and you may find someone through a local resource like the
> above.

Thanks -- all good advice!

[email protected] (Doug Miller) writes:
> In article <[email protected]>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>>blueman wrote:
>>> Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
> [...]
>>> 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help!!!
>>
>> 1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me. By the color variations
>>(sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
>>photo could use some color correction.
>
> No, look at the grain. I'm not sure what the kitchen *is*, but unquestionably
> it is *not* cherry. If it's a hardwood at all -- which I very much doubt --
> it's probably elm. IMO, it's spruce, maybe Douglas fir.

I would guess it is a softwood since unfortunately for a kitchen, the
floor scratches and dents *very easily*. I would have guessed fir but I
am at best a novice at understanding wood...

Any pointers on how to narrow it down?

RonB <[email protected]> writes:

> On Jan 31, 7:50 am, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>> blueman wrote:
>> > Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>
>> > The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>> > Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>> > late 1700's.
>>
>> > The floors are unstained and all were sanded and coated with semi-gloss
>> > oil-based polyurethane about 5 years ago (except for the guest room).
>>
>> > 1. 1st floor and 2nd floor hall (1860's)
>> >    (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor.jpg
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor.jpg
>>
>> > 2. 2nd floor bedroom and 3rd floor hall (1860's)
>> >    (I believe both are the same wood, though correct me if I am wrong)
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_bedroom.jpg
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-3rd_floor.jpg
>>
>> > 3. 1st floor stairs (1860's)
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-1st_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> > 4. 2nd floor stairs (1860's or may have be redone)
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_steps.jpg
>>
>> > 5. Guest room (late 1700's)
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-2nd_floor_guest.jpg
>>
>> > 6. Kitchen (flooring is new)
>> >    http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/Wood-Kitchen.jpg
>>
>> > Thanks for the help!!!
>>
>>   1 thru 5 all look like yellow pine to me.  By the color variations
>> (sap/heart wood) my guess would be that the kitchen is cherry and the
>> photo could use some color correction.
>>
>> --
>> Jack Novak
>> Buffalo, NY - USA
>> [email protected]
>
> I'm with Nova on the Yellow Pine. Not so sure with the Kitchen. If
> you took pics digitally, you might check your white balance setting
> against lighting (fluorescent, incandescent, etc) and resubmit. It
> could be Cherry but the color doesn't look right.
>
> RonB

It was done with a good digital camera using flash - color is pretty
reasonable. I don't think kitchen is cherry either.

All wood in the house is (unfortunately) pretty soft.

I agree that 3rd floor, 2nd floor bedroom, 2nd floor guest and probably
the stairs look like pine - based on color and grain. But the 1st and
2nd floor halls look very different from the pine that I am used to. Any
toughts there?

[email protected] (Doug Miller) writes:
> The best way to narrow it down is an on-site inspection by someone who knows
> wood, preferably someone who's familiar with the types of wood used in house
> construction in your area two hundred years ago.
>
> But does it really matter? There's a solid consensus here that you have some
> species of softwood; most of the guys seem to think it's pine, but my money is
> still on spruce, but either way, what difference does it make?

Yeah concensus seems to be it is all pine except probably (possibly?)
the kitchen.

It matters to me though not in a life-or-death sort of matter.
First, in a "sappy" sort of way, I have really bonded with my house and
take great pride and interest in knowing all the details of its
construction so that I can continue to maintain and restore it.

Second, there are some areas of flooring that I want to eventually patch
and other areas that I might want to match when we do renovations. So,
it would be helpful to know as precisely as possible what type of wood I
am dealing with. Since the wood is old, I would like to be on the
"lookout" for acquiring similar old samples ripped out of other houses
that I would store for future use in my house -- but I can't do that
without at least knowing more about the type of wood actually in my
house.

Thanks again to all for the help here!

blueman wrote:
> All wood in the house is (unfortunately) pretty soft.
>
> I agree that 3rd floor, 2nd floor bedroom, 2nd floor guest and
> probably the stairs look like pine - based on color and grain. But
> the 1st and 2nd floor halls look very different from the pine that I
> am used to. Any toughts there?

It's edge grain - quartered. Lucky you :)

To me, all of it looks more like Douglas fir than pine but I wouldn't think
you'd have that, especially that mfrom the late 1700s. The same for the
newer...why import yellow pine from the south or west when there was still
beaucoup wood locally? White pine maybe? I don't have much experience with
that so can't say.

The kitchen isn't a hardwood, looks pretty much like all he rest.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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"blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sonny <[email protected]> writes:
>> I'm almost positive all of it is Longleaf Pine. Even the new kitchen
>> floor may be reclaimed Longleaf Pine that has been sanded or planed,
>> hence the different "color".
>
> All the floors (except for the 2nd floor guest which is pretty rough)
> were thoroughly sanded and polyurethaned just over 5 years ago -- so
> that shouldn't contribute to the difference.
>
> The kitchen (to my novice eyes) looks very different from all the other
> wood with different grain pattern, color, and streaks of sap vs. heart
> wood.
>
> Even the 1st and 2nd floor halls (which are the same by the way as the
> other formal rooms on the first floor) look very different from the the
> more
> private areas (2nd floor bedroom, 3rd floor hall, 2nd floor guest). The
> grain is much tighter and straighter, there are no visible knots, and
> the color is darker amber vs. the more yellow "pine" color of the
> private areas. I had always assumed that was consistent with
> cheap-ole-yankees only using the best wood for the public areas.
>
> Do you think they are really all the same species of pine?
>
>> What I find odd is that some areas seem
>> to be toe-nailed (kitchen) and others are face-nailed. I wonder if
>> that face-nailing is original (I think not).
>
> The nailing in the old parts (everything but the kitchen) is indeed face
> nailed with what appear to be hand made cut nails. In the basement you
> can see the nails poking through the subfloor by 2-3 inches! and the
> exposed portion is rusty and a bit curled. I don't know if the face nails
> were original or added over the years but they certainly don't seem to
> be anything modern...

The fact that there is a sub-floor makes me think the finish floors may not
original to the structure... This based on what I've seen both here in NY,
living in a city with buildings that date from the 1670s through the
present, and during my time working in Williamsburg, VA in the restored
area. I think it would have been more common to find the floor to be THE
floor, both structural and finished, in the late 1700s. The flooring would
have been nailed directly to the supporting structure, i.e,. joists, so you
wouldn't see the nails. I'm speculating here based on my personal
experiences, and I'm sure there are exceptions, but it may be worth
exploring this possibility.

For what it's worth, most of the floors look like pine to me and the other
fir.

John

FWIW.

Your 1st floor is *exactly* what I have the hallway of my in my 1860-built
home in Northern NY.

Yes it is softwood, but significantly tougher than modern (new growth) pine.
Sadly, I don't know what species it is.

-Steve

"Zz Yzx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:06:32 -0500, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Please help me identify the types of wood flooring in my house.
>>
>>The main part of the house was built in about the 1860's in
>>Massachusetts while the guest room and kitchen areas were built in the
>>late 1700's.
>
>
> I'm a little baffled by the construction history. THe guest room and
> kitchen were built in the late 1700's, but the main part of the house
> in the 1860's?
>
> I'm guessing the "main part" was a significant addition to a much
> smaller house. But the wood looks verrrry similar.
>
> But it's OK, I'k often confused.
>
> -Zz

On 1/31/2010 6:11 PM, blueman wrote:

> Second, there are some areas of flooring that I want to eventually patch
> and other areas that I might want to match when we do renovations. So,
> it would be helpful to know as precisely as possible what type of wood I
> am dealing with. Since the wood is old, I would like to be on the
> "lookout" for acquiring similar old samples ripped out of other houses
> that I would store for future use in my house -- but I can't do that
> without at least knowing more about the type of wood actually in my
> house.

There are a lot of resources out there for old growth lumber, especially
flooring. I recently built a house where we bought structural pine from
an old tobacco warehouse in North Carolina through a broker and had
2000sf milled for 5 1/2" flooring for a total cost of just under $11k
(+/- $5.40sf), delivered to the Austin, TX vicinity.

Which in my experience as a builder, is not all that bad considering it
was exactly what the client wanted.

There were a number of similar deals on the web, so there was plenty to
pick and choose from.

A good place to start your search locally is a retailer that specializes
in recycled products of all types, like this outfit in Austin which
brokered the above deal:

http://www.ecowise.com/

The advice to get an up close and personal professional opinion is
sound, and you may find someone through a local resource like the above.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)