And yet another kitchen refresh bites the dust ...

On 12/7/2014 8:01 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 07:57:41 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>> One bowl for rinsing? Just how many items can you
>> properly rinse in there?
>
> ...Big plastic rinsing bowl.
>
>> It has been proven many times that a dishwasher uses less water than
>> hand washing.
>
> I'll keep this in mind the next time I consider a dishwasher purchase.
>


I might add that dishwashers are not all equal. We have owned Ge,
Whirlpool, and Bosch. Whirlpool wind hands down if you get the ones
with the pot scrubbing feature. Short of bones and seeds everything
goes in off the table and comes out clean.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:18:46 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:14:44 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>>outlet, they have a trap/filter. You have to clean that trap after
>>every use or all that food is just sitting there getting "yuck".
>
>That's a pain. For me, the option of a dishwasher is supposed to
>eliminate that kind of need.

I agree, which is why we dropped the Bosch from consideration.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> FWIW we replaced a Whirlpool with a Bosch and that lasted 30 days. I
> simply did not clean dishes as well as the unit we Whirlpool I pulled
> out. The only reason for replacing the Whirlpoos was that the plastic
> on the racks was cracking and falling off of the metal racks and we
> were getting rust. New racks were about half the price of a new DW.
> 30 days later we replaced the new Bosch with a Whirlpool.
>

There's a product out there for redoing that coating. It's called
something like dishwasher rerack. It seems to be holding its own on the
10 year old dish washer, but I haven't gone and looked.

It stinks up the place something fierce. A summer outdoor application
would be advisable.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Leon" wrote:

> Actually... Whirlpool owns many brands you know.
>
> http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/brands-we-love/
------------------------------------------------------
Major consolidation of the white goods industries
was well underway by the early 1980's.

Traffic appliances (countertop appliances) took the first hit
followed by the major appliance suppliers.

GE for example sold their traffic appliances to Black &Decker
but continued to invest in the major appliance business based
on the fact that if they kept automating, they could keep the
Asians off shore.

That didn't work and I see where GE has recently sold their
major appliance business to pursue other more profitable
interests.

Funny how money drives things.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

>> That didn't work and I see where GE has recently sold their
>> major appliance business to pursue other more profitable
>> interests.

---------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

> Like NBC . LOL
>
> And then there are the wide spread jet engines.
-----------------------------------------
Not sure, but think GE still has a minority stake in NBC.

As far as jet engines are concerned, GE now has a major
jet engine investment in Brazil.

Airbus tried to get a foothold using the House majority
speaker to run political interference for them since the
facility was to be in his district.

The project got killed since the engine they wanted to build
was obsolete.

Look for GE to make additional investments in non-carbon
energy systems such as wind and solar as well as natural
gas fired railroad engines for general traffic usage.

They make money supplying big heavy iron such as
turbine-generators transportation, marine and utility markets.


Lew

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

>>> Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the
>>> formula
>>> and they went to crap.
-------------------------------------------
It was a hell of a fight to overcome the resistance of the likes of
Proctor & Gamble; however, the result was that the Great Lakes,
especially Lake Erie, were able to get rid of the algae bloom that
was choking the life out of them.

It was amazing how quickly the lakes cleansed themselves once
the phospates stopped being discharged into them.


Lew

On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 12:09:42 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, December 6, 2014 1:24:33 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
>> Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and
>> appliances:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1
>
>Another really nice job, Karl. Your final product always looks so clean and well thought out, I can't imagine your clients not being thrilled with it. I really liked the "trapeze" that suspends the mixer. How much cabinet modification to the carcass did it take to get that strong enough to suspend the mixer safely? Is that a purpose built piece of kitchen hardware? It reminds me of some computer hardware I have installed.
>
>Also, are those your doors or did you have them made? That style of design and finish seems like it would be great for foil thermoplastic, but I couldn't tell from your pics. As we spoke a while back, I haven't made a door for myself in years...
>
>Once again, nice work!
>
>>
>> Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits
>> and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is
>> being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.
>
>While it is starting to loosen up a bit here, it still isn't what it was. We are usually behind pretty much any trend here, so I am hoping that we will get back to a trend of being really busy here.
>
>Talking to one of my amigos the other day that just shut down his company, I was longingly remembering the days of telling potential clients that I was 2 -3 months away from taking their work.
>
>And talking to my sister that lives in Houston, she assures me that the shortage of craftsmen in Houston is so severe it is a topic of discussion in the news and a priority at their homeowner's association meetings. She has repeatedly assured me that if I were to move to Houston that she could book me a year or work in about 30 days.
>
>But... I wouldn't think to sell your efforts short in any way, either. You always do good work and have quite a portfolio of projects to back it all up. Regardless of a shortage of "hands on" workers, a good contractor makes all the difference in the world, and some folk are savvy enough to realize how important the contractor is to a smooth running project and to delivering a good final product.
>
>If only Houston had better Tex/Mex... ;^)
>
>Robert
I like the laminate backsplash matching the counter-top too. We did
that in our kitchen when we re-did it back in '96 - with custom Ash
cabinetry. I designed the kitchen and had it built by Berg kitchens
here in Waterloo (long since out of business). We did a setback
"knee-hole" below the sink (doors set back about 4 inches) which made
the Mirstone sink installation a bit tricky.
That job all started when my wife won a new solid vinyl kitchen floor
- - - -

On 12/7/2014 10:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 12:09:42 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, December 6, 2014 1:24:33 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
>>> Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and
>>> appliances:
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1
>>
>> Another really nice job, Karl. Your final product always looks so clean and well thought out, I can't imagine your clients not being thrilled with it. I really liked the "trapeze" that suspends the mixer. How much cabinet modification to the carcass did it take to get that strong enough to suspend the mixer safely? Is that a purpose built piece of kitchen hardware? It reminds me of some computer hardware I have installed.
>>
>> Also, are those your doors or did you have them made? That style of design and finish seems like it would be great for foil thermoplastic, but I couldn't tell from your pics. As we spoke a while back, I haven't made a door for myself in years...
>>
>> Once again, nice work!
>>
>>>
>>> Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits
>>> and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is
>>> being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.
>>
>> While it is starting to loosen up a bit here, it still isn't what it was. We are usually behind pretty much any trend here, so I am hoping that we will get back to a trend of being really busy here.
>>
>> Talking to one of my amigos the other day that just shut down his company, I was longingly remembering the days of telling potential clients that I was 2 -3 months away from taking their work.
>>
>> And talking to my sister that lives in Houston, she assures me that the shortage of craftsmen in Houston is so severe it is a topic of discussion in the news and a priority at their homeowner's association meetings. She has repeatedly assured me that if I were to move to Houston that she could book me a year or work in about 30 days.
>>
>> But... I wouldn't think to sell your efforts short in any way, either. You always do good work and have quite a portfolio of projects to back it all up. Regardless of a shortage of "hands on" workers, a good contractor makes all the difference in the world, and some folk are savvy enough to realize how important the contractor is to a smooth running project and to delivering a good final product.
>>
>> If only Houston had better Tex/Mex... ;^)
>>
>> Robert
> I like the laminate backsplash matching the counter-top too.

If we are still talking about Swingmans kitchen remodel, the back splash
is 3/4"+ quartz.

On Saturday, December 6, 2014 1:24:33 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
> Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and=20
> appliances:
>=20
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitche=
nRefresh?noredirect=3D1

Another really nice job, Karl. Your final product always looks so clean an=
d well thought out, I can't imagine your clients not being thrilled with it=
. I really liked the "trapeze" that suspends the mixer. How much cabinet =
modification to the carcass did it take to get that strong enough to suspen=
d the mixer safely? Is that a purpose built piece of kitchen hardware? It=
reminds me of some computer hardware I have installed.

Also, are those your doors or did you have them made? That style of design=
and finish seems like it would be great for foil thermoplastic, but I coul=
dn't tell from your pics. As we spoke a while back, I haven't made a door =
for myself in years...

Once again, nice work!

>=20
> Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits=
=20
> and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is=20
> being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.

While it is starting to loosen up a bit here, it still isn't what it was. =
We are usually behind pretty much any trend here, so I am hoping that we wi=
ll get back to a trend of being really busy here.

Talking to one of my amigos the other day that just shut down his company, =
I was longingly remembering the days of telling potential clients that I wa=
s 2 -3 months away from taking their work.

And talking to my sister that lives in Houston, she assures me that the sho=
rtage of craftsmen in Houston is so severe it is a topic of discussion in t=
he news and a priority at their homeowner's association meetings. She has =
repeatedly assured me that if I were to move to Houston that she could book=
me a year or work in about 30 days.

But... I wouldn't think to sell your efforts short in any way, either. You=
always do good work and have quite a portfolio of projects to back it all =
up. Regardless of a shortage of "hands on" workers, a good contractor make=
s all the difference in the world, and some folk are savvy enough to realiz=
e how important the contractor is to a smooth running project and to delive=
ring a good final product.

If only Houston had better Tex/Mex... ;^)

Robert=20

On 12/8/2014 9:11 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> I'll state again, Whirlpool always in pot scrubber mode. We go
>> straight to the dishwasher from the table and don't run it until it
>> is full. In some cases this might be 2 days later. Maybe once a
>> month some thing might come out with a spec of debris because it was
>> too full.
>
> I'm going to try this. Ours is a Maytag and I just looked to see what mode
> we run it in. It appears we usually use Normal mode - at least I do... not
> sure what mode my wife uses. It's not that it does a terrible job but this
> is one of those things that really bugs me - More often than I wish, things
> don't come out as I think they should. Sauces like tomato sauce seem to
> harden on too well if not pre-rinsed and allowed to sit in the washer for a
> couple of days. Sparkling clean is something I would never attribute to any
> dish washer we've ever owned - and it kinda pisses me off. It's seldom that
> we overload ours, though I suppose that does happen from time to time.
>
>> I'm not talking entry models so much as top or near the top of the
>> line. We are on our 3rd Whirlpool.
>
> Likewise, our Maytag was reputed to be at or near top of the line when we
> bought it.
>
>> First home 34 years ago came with the builders grade Gaffers&Stratson
>> or something like that. We struggled with that for 7 years. Bought
>> a top end Whirlpool and used it for 15 plus years until the trays
>> began rusting and replaced with a Bosch. The Bosch lasted a month
>> and we exchanged it for another top end Whirlpool with SS tub about
>> 12 years ago. My son is still using it, we moved out. We had a new
>> home built and the builder only offered GE appliances. I made a deal
>> with a builder appliance supplier and traded in the unused GE
>> dishwasher for a top end Whirlpool a step down from the top, with out
>> SS tub. That was 4 years ago and the DW is performing as all have in
>> the past.
>
> I'm pretty sure our previous dish washer was a Whirlpool - about 90% sure of
> that. It pretty much operated like our Maytag does today. Products like
> this we buy from applicance stores - not from HD, or Walmart, or the like.
> Always though a higher end product selection was available from the
> appliance stores.
>
>>
>> I might add that the quality of your water has a lot to do with any DW
>> cleaning properly. Hard water cuts down on the dish soap's capacity
>> to work through out the wash cycle. We use a water softener.
>
> Very true. I have a water softener installed because we are on a private
> well so that almost guarantees hard water - at least around here it does. I
> plumbed mine in to service the whole house except for the spiggots outside.
>
FWIW I don't know of any time that we do not ours of in anything less
than pot scrubber mode. We even have a turbo mode that cleans baked on
casserole pans. And Jet Dry helps.

On 12/7/2014 5:24 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Actually... Whirlpool owns many brands you know.
>>
>> http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/brands-we-love/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Major consolidation of the white goods industries
> was well underway by the early 1980's.
>
> Traffic appliances (countertop appliances) took the first hit
> followed by the major appliance suppliers.
>
> GE for example sold their traffic appliances to Black &Decker
> but continued to invest in the major appliance business based
> on the fact that if they kept automating, they could keep the
> Asians off shore.
I know that 4 years ago you could hardly tell the difference between a
GE and Samsung refrigerator.


> That didn't work and I see where GE has recently sold their
> major appliance business to pursue other more profitable
> interests.

Like NBC . LOL

And then there are the wide spread jet engines.



>
> Funny how money drives things.
>
>
> Lew
>
>
>

On 12/7/2014 4:56 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> FWIW we replaced a Whirlpool with a Bosch and that lasted 30 days. I
>> simply did not clean dishes as well as the unit we Whirlpool I pulled
>> out. The only reason for replacing the Whirlpoos was that the plastic
>> on the racks was cracking and falling off of the metal racks and we
>> were getting rust. New racks were about half the price of a new DW.
>> 30 days later we replaced the new Bosch with a Whirlpool.
>>
>
> There's a product out there for redoing that coating. It's called
> something like dishwasher rerack. It seems to be holding its own on the
> 10 year old dish washer, but I haven't gone and looked.
>
> It stinks up the place something fierce. A summer outdoor application
> would be advisable.
>
> Puckdropper
>


I saw touch up bottles of the rubberized/vinylized product but we had 2
racks that were cracking and peeling all over. It was about $500 to
replace two racks in a 15 year+ old dishwasher or go $999 for all new. ;~)

On 12/7/2014 6:24 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Actually... Whirlpool owns many brands you know.
>>
>> http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/brands-we-love/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Major consolidation of the white goods industries
> was well underway by the early 1980's.
>
> Traffic appliances (countertop appliances) took the first hit
> followed by the major appliance suppliers.
>
> GE for example sold their traffic appliances to Black &Decker
> but continued to invest in the major appliance business based
> on the fact that if they kept automating, they could keep the
> Asians off shore.
>
> That didn't work and I see where GE has recently sold their
> major appliance business to pursue other more profitable
> interests.

What do Edison Electric, White Consolidated Industries, Electrolux, and
Frigidaire have in common? Same plant, same products, same employees,
mostly the same owners using different names. Same product on t he
assembly line with eight different brand front panels. Since closed as
they moved to Mexico.

On 12/9/2014 9:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

>>
>> Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the formula
>> and they went to crap. I won't use anything but Cascade Platinum. Works
>> out to 24 cents a load if you buy it at BJ's.
>
> I'm going to try Cascade Platinum and see if that makes any difference. I'm
> not really sure what we use - pretty much whatever my wife picks up at the
> store. Probably whatever is the best price...
>

For years we used Cascade powder or gel with good results. Then they
took the phosphates out and it did not perform as well. Glasses were
getting cloudy as you describe. The new DW came with a sample of the
Platinum and I never looked back.
This is what we have
http://www.kitchenaid.com/shop/major-appliances-1/dishwashers-3/102020014/

On 12/7/2014 9:49 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 12/7/2014 4:56 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> FWIW we replaced a Whirlpool with a Bosch and that lasted 30 days. I
>>>> simply did not clean dishes as well as the unit we Whirlpool I
>>>> pulled out. The only reason for replacing the Whirlpoos was that
>>>> the plastic on the racks was cracking and falling off of the metal
>>>> racks and we were getting rust. New racks were about half the
>>>> price of a new DW. 30 days later we replaced the new Bosch with a
>>>> Whirlpool.
>>>
>>> There's a product out there for redoing that coating. It's called
>>> something like dishwasher rerack. It seems to be holding its own on
>>> the 10 year old dish washer, but I haven't gone and looked.
>>>
>>> It stinks up the place something fierce. A summer outdoor
>>> application would be advisable.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>
>>
>> I saw touch up bottles of the rubberized/vinylized product but we had
>> 2 racks that were cracking and peeling all over. It was about $500 to
>> replace two racks in a 15 year+ old dishwasher or go $999 for all
>> new. ;~)
>
> I'll chine in with this - if any of you have really ever found a dishwasher
> to produce "sparkling clean" dishes - just tell me what you bought. I'm
> sorry - but this is just pure crap. Dishwashers just do not perform like
> this. One is pretty much the same as the other - they do pretty well, but
> if anyone really believes there is a "sparkling clearn" or "sparkly white"
> or "sparkling anything", they are just fooling themselves. Or... they have
> some really low level standards for cleanliness.
>
I'll state again, Whirlpool always in pot scrubber mode. We go straight
to the dishwasher from the table and don't run it until it is full. In
some cases this might be 2 days later. Maybe once a month some thing
might come out with a spec of debris because it was too full.
I'm not talking entry models so much as top or near the top of the line.
We are on our 3rd Whirlpool.
First home 34 years ago came with the builders grade Gaffers&Stratson or
something like that. We struggled with that for 7 years. Bought a top
end Whirlpool and used it for 15 plus years until the trays began
rusting and replaced with a Bosch. The Bosch lasted a month and we
exchanged it for another top end Whirlpool with SS tub about 12 years
ago. My son is still using it, we moved out. We had a new home built
and the builder only offered GE appliances. I made a deal with a
builder appliance supplier and traded in the unused GE dishwasher for a
top end Whirlpool a step down from the top, with out SS tub. That was 4
years ago and the DW is performing as all have in the past.

I might add that the quality of your water has a lot to do with any DW
cleaning properly. Hard water cuts down on the dish soap's capacity to
work through out the wash cycle. We use a water softener.

On 12/6/2014 2:24 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and
> appliances:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1
>
>
> Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits
> and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is
> being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.
>

Looks nice. My wife and I like the corner lazy Susan. Did you move the
dishwasher to a new location?

If you are good, you don't have to spend money to advertise.

On 12/9/2014 8:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>
>> I have the top of the line KitchenAid and use Cascade Platinum
>> detergent. I'll put my dishes and glassware up against any cleaning
>> method you want. Oh, let's compare flatware too.
>>
>
> Leon feels the same way you do Ed. Flatware seems to be the most prone to
> insufficient cleaning in ours.
>
>> My standards are extremely high and I defy you to match what this
>> machine does by any method you choose.
>>
>> Just because you've only seen second rate machines does not mean top
>> quality cleanliness does not exist. Bring our glassware and I'll make
>> it shine for you. And no spots.
>
> A particular weak spot in my experiences. That's one of the hot spots for
> me. I end up periodically washing our drinking glasses by hand just to get
> them back to that sparkling clean, like new look. Takes no real effort to
> do so, but they get sorta cloudy over time in the dishwasher.
>

Make sure your DW is actually draining properly, if you have a screen or
filter in the bottom clean that out. If the dirty water is not finished
emptying out before the rinse cycle begins you are rinsing with dirty water.

We once had a problem with our latest DW about 3 years ago. The repair
guy pointed out the bones, seeds, rocks, sticks, anything that will not
break down and go through the screed to the built in DW disposer. All of
that used to go through on our other WP DW's. We try to not throw hard
items like that in there any more and have had no issues.

On 12/6/2014 1:24 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and
> appliances:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1
>
>
> Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits
> and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is
> being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.
>


OK, this is a customer of mine that he did this kitchen for and I have
seen the process of the kitchen.

This was what I thought was going to be a kitchen refresh.

This kitchen is not not a refresh or modernized look, it is a work of
art that many new models homes would wish to look like.

Job well done! AGAIN!

On 12/9/2014 8:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>
>> Your machine is not working well. I never give a dish more than a
>> "psst" under the water to get big stuff off of a dish, most go right
>> in. I never get residue. Ever.
>>
>> Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the formula
>> and they went to crap. I won't use anything but Cascade Platinum. Works
>> out to 24 cents a load if you buy it at BJ's.
>
> I'm going to try Cascade Platinum and see if that makes any difference. I'm
> not really sure what we use - pretty much whatever my wife picks up at the
> store. Probably whatever is the best price...
>

On our DW the pots and pans cycle has 2 wash/soap cycles. We used to
pour the Cascade powder in both soap dispensers but recently switched to
the single Cascade premeasured soap tabs that has the soap, rinse agent,
and 2 other liquids. That seems to work as well as the "powder in both
dispensers". The only reason that we switched is because our local
Sam's no longer had the powder.

On 12/10/2014 10:33 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
>
>>>> Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the
>>>> formula
>>>> and they went to crap.
> -------------------------------------------
> It was a hell of a fight to overcome the resistance of the likes of
> Proctor & Gamble; however, the result was that the Great Lakes,
> especially Lake Erie, were able to get rid of the algae bloom that
> was choking the life out of them.
>
> It was amazing how quickly the lakes cleansed themselves once
> the phospates stopped being discharged into them.
>
>
> Lew
>
>
Good for the lakes and finally good for the consumer. It took a while
but now there are some very good detergents.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:14:44 -0500, [email protected] wrote:


>One of the biggest differences between cheap dishwashers and the
>expensive models are the interior options; interior layout,
>plastic/stainless tub, extra cycles ("crystal", "pots", extra rinse
>cycles, insulation, temperature control, etc). For me, over 15 years,
>that stuff is worth it for the ~2x cost difference.

Our first DW about 1970 was a used Kitchen Aid from my brother's house
when he was renovating. I've stayed with KA ever since. About a year
ago I replaced our 15 year old KA with a new one. We use Cascade
Platinum detergent and everything comes out perfectly clean and
sparkling. Glassware looks brand new.

I'm sure some other brands are good too, but when you have performance
like this, I'm not going to try anything else.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 07:57:41 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>One bowl for rinsing? Just how many items can you
>properly rinse in there?

...Big plastic rinsing bowl.

>It has been proven many times that a dishwasher uses less water than
>hand washing.

I'll keep this in mind the next time I consider a dishwasher purchase.

On 12/6/2014 2:54 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 12/6/2014 1:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Looks nice. My wife and I like the corner lazy Susan. Did you move the
>> dishwasher to a new location?
>
> The client, adamantly, forcefully, and unmistakably, did NOT want to see
> another dishwasher in her kitchen. Don't know if it has anything to do
> with it, but she's a farm girl from Illinois. But I now know how she
> feels about dishwashers.

Push a button and you get sparkling clean, dry, dishes with no effort
and with less hot water. I don't understand some people.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 22:06:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>Push a button and you get sparkling clean, dry, dishes with no effort
>and with less hot water. I don't understand some people

Is it less hot water? I fill the sink and fill one bowl for rinsing.
If it really is less water, I wasn't aware of that.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:14:44 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>outlet, they have a trap/filter. You have to clean that trap after
>every use or all that food is just sitting there getting "yuck".

That's a pain. For me, the option of a dishwasher is supposed to
eliminate that kind of need.

On 12/6/2014 1:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Looks nice. My wife and I like the corner lazy Susan. Did you move the
> dishwasher to a new location?

The client, adamantly, forcefully, and unmistakably, did NOT want to see
another dishwasher in her kitchen. Don't know if it has anything to do
with it, but she's a farm girl from Illinois. But I now know how she
feels about dishwashers.

> If you are good, you don't have to spend money to advertise.

That, or they can see you're getting old and tired and want to poke you
with a stick...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/7/2014 11:27 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:18:46 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:14:44 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>>> outlet, they have a trap/filter. You have to clean that trap after
>>> every use or all that food is just sitting there getting "yuck".
>>
>> That's a pain. For me, the option of a dishwasher is supposed to
>> eliminate that kind of need.
>
> I agree, which is why we dropped the Bosch from consideration.
>

FWIW we replaced a Whirlpool with a Bosch and that lasted 30 days. I
simply did not clean dishes as well as the unit we Whirlpool I pulled
out. The only reason for replacing the Whirlpoos was that the plastic
on the racks was cracking and falling off of the metal racks and we were
getting rust. New racks were about half the price of a new DW. 30 days
later we replaced the new Bosch with a Whirlpool.

On 12/6/14, 1:24 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and
> appliances:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1
>
>
> Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits
> and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is
> being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.
>

Inspiring!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Great Job, and looks like you enjoy your work.
Seriously. I can tell when a job is done, how much the person liked his
work, by how well it came out.
I know there are times of aggravation, and material failures......
but the finished product is "proof of the puddin"
john

"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Cabinetry basically a done deal, just waiting on the wall paper and
appliances:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1

Whether its re-siding, or a bathroom/kitchen remodel, a neighbor visits
and the projects multiply like rabbits these days ... all it takes is
being visible in a neighborhood for more than two days.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

[email protected] wrote in news:dan88adg43ph6ud22q93iekgosnadkm54r@
4ax.com:

> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 07:57:41 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>One bowl for rinsing? Just how many items can you
>>properly rinse in there?
>
> ...Big plastic rinsing bowl.
>
>>It has been proven many times that a dishwasher uses less water than
>>hand washing.
>
> I'll keep this in mind the next time I consider a dishwasher purchase.
>
Also, dishwashers sanitize the dishes - rinse them at a much higher
temperature than you could do by hand.

Leon wrote:
> On 12/7/2014 4:56 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> FWIW we replaced a Whirlpool with a Bosch and that lasted 30 days. I
>>> simply did not clean dishes as well as the unit we Whirlpool I
>>> pulled out. The only reason for replacing the Whirlpoos was that
>>> the plastic on the racks was cracking and falling off of the metal
>>> racks and we were getting rust. New racks were about half the
>>> price of a new DW. 30 days later we replaced the new Bosch with a
>>> Whirlpool.
>>
>> There's a product out there for redoing that coating. It's called
>> something like dishwasher rerack. It seems to be holding its own on
>> the 10 year old dish washer, but I haven't gone and looked.
>>
>> It stinks up the place something fierce. A summer outdoor
>> application would be advisable.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
>
> I saw touch up bottles of the rubberized/vinylized product but we had
> 2 racks that were cracking and peeling all over. It was about $500 to
> replace two racks in a 15 year+ old dishwasher or go $999 for all
> new. ;~)

I'll chine in with this - if any of you have really ever found a dishwasher
to produce "sparkling clean" dishes - just tell me what you bought. I'm
sorry - but this is just pure crap. Dishwashers just do not perform like
this. One is pretty much the same as the other - they do pretty well, but
if anyone really believes there is a "sparkling clearn" or "sparkly white"
or "sparkling anything", they are just fooling themselves. Or... they have
some really low level standards for cleanliness.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:

> I'll state again, Whirlpool always in pot scrubber mode. We go
> straight to the dishwasher from the table and don't run it until it
> is full. In some cases this might be 2 days later. Maybe once a
> month some thing might come out with a spec of debris because it was
> too full.

I'm going to try this. Ours is a Maytag and I just looked to see what mode
we run it in. It appears we usually use Normal mode - at least I do... not
sure what mode my wife uses. It's not that it does a terrible job but this
is one of those things that really bugs me - More often than I wish, things
don't come out as I think they should. Sauces like tomato sauce seem to
harden on too well if not pre-rinsed and allowed to sit in the washer for a
couple of days. Sparkling clean is something I would never attribute to any
dish washer we've ever owned - and it kinda pisses me off. It's seldom that
we overload ours, though I suppose that does happen from time to time.

> I'm not talking entry models so much as top or near the top of the
> line. We are on our 3rd Whirlpool.

Likewise, our Maytag was reputed to be at or near top of the line when we
bought it.

> First home 34 years ago came with the builders grade Gaffers&Stratson
> or something like that. We struggled with that for 7 years. Bought
> a top end Whirlpool and used it for 15 plus years until the trays
> began rusting and replaced with a Bosch. The Bosch lasted a month
> and we exchanged it for another top end Whirlpool with SS tub about
> 12 years ago. My son is still using it, we moved out. We had a new
> home built and the builder only offered GE appliances. I made a deal
> with a builder appliance supplier and traded in the unused GE
> dishwasher for a top end Whirlpool a step down from the top, with out
> SS tub. That was 4 years ago and the DW is performing as all have in
> the past.

I'm pretty sure our previous dish washer was a Whirlpool - about 90% sure of
that. It pretty much operated like our Maytag does today. Products like
this we buy from applicance stores - not from HD, or Walmart, or the like.
Always though a higher end product selection was available from the
appliance stores.

>
> I might add that the quality of your water has a lot to do with any DW
> cleaning properly. Hard water cuts down on the dish soap's capacity
> to work through out the wash cycle. We use a water softener.

Very true. I have a water softener installed because we are on a private
well so that almost guarantees hard water - at least around here it does. I
plumbed mine in to service the whole house except for the spiggots outside.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> I have the top of the line KitchenAid and use Cascade Platinum
> detergent. I'll put my dishes and glassware up against any cleaning
> method you want. Oh, let's compare flatware too.
>

Leon feels the same way you do Ed. Flatware seems to be the most prone to
insufficient cleaning in ours.

> My standards are extremely high and I defy you to match what this
> machine does by any method you choose.
>
> Just because you've only seen second rate machines does not mean top
> quality cleanliness does not exist. Bring our glassware and I'll make
> it shine for you. And no spots.

A particular weak spot in my experiences. That's one of the hot spots for
me. I end up periodically washing our drinking glasses by hand just to get
them back to that sparkling clean, like new look. Takes no real effort to
do so, but they get sorta cloudy over time in the dishwasher.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>
> Your machine is not working well. I never give a dish more than a
> "psst" under the water to get big stuff off of a dish, most go right
> in. I never get residue. Ever.
>
> Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the formula
> and they went to crap. I won't use anything but Cascade Platinum. Works
> out to 24 cents a load if you buy it at BJ's.

I'm going to try Cascade Platinum and see if that makes any difference. I'm
not really sure what we use - pretty much whatever my wife picks up at the
store. Probably whatever is the best price...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/9/2014 9:18 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the formula
>>> and they went to crap. I won't use anything but Cascade Platinum.
>>> Works out to 24 cents a load if you buy it at BJ's.
>>
>> I'm going to try Cascade Platinum and see if that makes any
>> difference. I'm not really sure what we use - pretty much whatever
>> my wife picks up at the store. Probably whatever is the best
>> price...
>
> For years we used Cascade powder or gel with good results. Then they
> took the phosphates out and it did not perform as well. Glasses were
> getting cloudy as you describe. The new DW came with a sample of the
> Platinum and I never looked back.
> This is what we have
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/shop/major-appliances-1/dishwashers-3/102020014/

I'm a believer in the kitchenaid brand as well as some of the cusinart
products. When we were looking at dishwashers the last time, I don't recall
seeing kitchenaid out there. At that time they seemed to be the counter top
products. Or - at least that's what i recall...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 12/7/2014 10:49 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

>
> I'll chine in with this - if any of you have really ever found a dishwasher
> to produce "sparkling clean" dishes - just tell me what you bought. I'm
> sorry - but this is just pure crap. Dishwashers just do not perform like
> this. One is pretty much the same as the other - they do pretty well, but
> if anyone really believes there is a "sparkling clearn" or "sparkly white"
> or "sparkling anything", they are just fooling themselves. Or... they have
> some really low level standards for cleanliness.
>

I have the top of the line KitchenAid and use Cascade Platinum
detergent. I'll put my dishes and glassware up against any cleaning
method you want. Oh, let's compare flatware too.

My standards are extremely high and I defy you to match what this
machine does by any method you choose.

Just because you've only seen second rate machines does not mean top
quality cleanliness does not exist. Bring our glassware and I'll make it
shine for you. And no spots.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 09:09:18 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/7/2014 8:01 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 07:57:41 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> One bowl for rinsing? Just how many items can you
>>> properly rinse in there?
>>
>> ...Big plastic rinsing bowl.
>>
>>> It has been proven many times that a dishwasher uses less water than
>>> hand washing.
>>
>> I'll keep this in mind the next time I consider a dishwasher purchase.
>>
>
>
>I might add that dishwashers are not all equal. We have owned Ge,
>Whirlpool, and Bosch. Whirlpool wind hands down if you get the ones
>with the pot scrubbing feature. Short of bones and seeds everything
>goes in off the table and comes out clean.
+1

The Electrolux we left behind in the previous house was superb. We've
had others that aren't so good at cleaning stuck-on stuff. The one in
the house before that had to have everything rinsed off the dishes
before they were put in. You'd still have to inspect them when
unloading. There are only two of us, now, so run it every four or
five days. The contractors special that we have now and the previous
Electrolux even cleaned dry, caked, stuff comes off every time. Clean.

I looked at the Bosch but it's a little different than others. Instead
of having a "grinder pump" (essentially a garbage disposal) at the
outlet, they have a trap/filter. You have to clean that trap after
every use or all that food is just sitting there getting "yuck".

One of the biggest differences between cheap dishwashers and the
expensive models are the interior options; interior layout,
plastic/stainless tub, extra cycles ("crystal", "pots", extra rinse
cycles, insulation, temperature control, etc). For me, over 15 years,
that stuff is worth it for the ~2x cost difference.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:24:18 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopRozelleKitchenRefresh?noredirect=1

Nice clean lines. My compliments! I hope the wallpaper isn't anything
garish.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 04:53:37 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 22:06:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Push a button and you get sparkling clean, dry, dishes with no effort
>>and with less hot water. I don't understand some people
>
>Is it less hot water? I fill the sink and fill one bowl for rinsing.
>If it really is less water, I wasn't aware of that.

It has been proven many times that a dishwasher uses less water than
hand washing. One bowl for rinsing? Just how many items can you
properly rinse in there.

If you are washing one or two items, it may not matter, but on a good
sized load, the machine wins every time.

On 12/8/2014 10:11 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

>
> I'm going to try this. Ours is a Maytag and I just looked to see what mode
> we run it in. It appears we usually use Normal mode - at least I do... not
> sure what mode my wife uses. It's not that it does a terrible job but this
> is one of those things that really bugs me - More often than I wish, things
> don't come out as I think they should. Sauces like tomato sauce seem to
> harden on too well if not pre-rinsed and allowed to sit in the washer for a
> couple of days. Sparkling clean is something I would never attribute to any
> dish washer we've ever owned - and it kinda pisses me off. It's seldom that
> we overload ours, though I suppose that does happen from time to time.

Your machine is not working well. I never give a dish more than a
"psst" under the water to get big stuff off of a dish, most go right in.
I never get residue. Ever.

Keep in mind that most detergent removed phosphate from the formula and
they went to crap. I won't use anything but Cascade Platinum. Works
out to 24 cents a load if you buy it at BJ's.

On 12/7/2014 4:32 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/7/2014 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:14:44 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> One of the biggest differences between cheap dishwashers and the
>>> expensive models are the interior options; interior layout,
>>> plastic/stainless tub, extra cycles ("crystal", "pots", extra rinse
>>> cycles, insulation, temperature control, etc). For me, over 15 years,
>>> that stuff is worth it for the ~2x cost difference.
>>
>> Our first DW about 1970 was a used Kitchen Aid from my brother's house
>> when he was renovating. I've stayed with KA ever since. About a year
>> ago I replaced our 15 year old KA with a new one. We use Cascade
>> Platinum detergent and everything comes out perfectly clean and
>> sparkling. Glassware looks brand new.
>>
>> I'm sure some other brands are good too, but when you have performance
>> like this, I'm not going to try anything else.
>>
>
> IIRC Whirlpool bought Kitchen Aid about 10 or so years ago.

Actually... Whirlpool owns many brands you know.

http://www.whirlpoolcorp.com/brands-we-love/

On 12/7/2014 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 11:14:44 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>> One of the biggest differences between cheap dishwashers and the
>> expensive models are the interior options; interior layout,
>> plastic/stainless tub, extra cycles ("crystal", "pots", extra rinse
>> cycles, insulation, temperature control, etc). For me, over 15 years,
>> that stuff is worth it for the ~2x cost difference.
>
> Our first DW about 1970 was a used Kitchen Aid from my brother's house
> when he was renovating. I've stayed with KA ever since. About a year
> ago I replaced our 15 year old KA with a new one. We use Cascade
> Platinum detergent and everything comes out perfectly clean and
> sparkling. Glassware looks brand new.
>
> I'm sure some other brands are good too, but when you have performance
> like this, I'm not going to try anything else.
>

IIRC Whirlpool bought Kitchen Aid about 10 or so years ago.