How to make painted OSB look halfway decent?

On Friday, April 11, 2014 7:22:06 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:24:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael
>=20
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
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> >On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
>=20
> >> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> news:[email protected]...
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> > What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like paint=
ed=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> > OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> >
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> > Thanks.
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >>=20
>=20
> >> Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and=
mud.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >I should have been more specific. Outdoor. But as Mike says, maybe I sho=
uld just use a decent ply.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Thanks.
>=20
> Or just put siding on it. Aluminum or vinyl, or even hardy-board or
>=20
> Masonite hardboard siding. ANYTHING looks better than a 4'X8' straw
>=20
> bale.

It was going to side my solar wood kiln, so maybe the heat inside (polycarb=
onate surface plus painted black inside) makes the material even less desir=
able if heat affects its structural properties. I'm going to put the kiln b=
ehind the garage where it's not going to be seen very often, but I still do=
n't like the look of painted OSB even back there. My materials list calls f=
or 5 sheets of 4x8, so I'm looking at an additional cost of about $50.00 if=
I use good plywood.

On 4/11/2014 7:08 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?
>
> The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear poly OSB.
>
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-table.jpg
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-chair.jpg
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg
>
> http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6665359/il_570xN.346149090.jpg
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg
>
> http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in-love-with-osb?sMiniImg=0
>
>
I don't share the love of OSB...

--
Jeff

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would think multiple layers of primer and sanded between each coat
>> until you get a smooth surface and then add the paint.
>>
>> It would probably be less expensive to get a smoother material to work
>> with to begin with.
>
> Agreed. Any quality building primer is going to cost more (with the amount
> of build required), and perform more poorly (with the amount of build
> required), than just getting the right material to start with. Likewise for
> the other suggestions about laying in fillers of some sort (whether plastic
> or spackle). Hell - why bother? Too much time, too much expense, just
> plain not worth the effort.
>
> Lew said it right - silk purse, sow's ear...


Well, what we don't know is what the application may be.. We can't make a
worth while suggestion as there is not enough information. I could
picture the OSB already permanently in place and the possibility of not
being able to fit a better material over it.

On 12/13/2017 2:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw blades but I sharpen them myself.

Want to say fiber glass, epoxy and micro balloons ala Lew miss him.

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 01:01:25 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would think multiple layers of primer and sanded between each coat
>>> until you get a smooth surface and then add the paint.
>>>
>>> It would probably be less expensive to get a smoother material to work
>>> with to begin with.
>>
>> Agreed. Any quality building primer is going to cost more (with the amount
>> of build required), and perform more poorly (with the amount of build
>> required), than just getting the right material to start with. Likewise for
>> the other suggestions about laying in fillers of some sort (whether plastic
>> or spackle). Hell - why bother? Too much time, too much expense, just
>> plain not worth the effort.
>>
>> Lew said it right - silk purse, sow's ear...
>
>
>Well, what we don't know is what the application may be.. We can't make a
>worth while suggestion as there is not enough information. I could
>picture the OSB already permanently in place and the possibility of not
>being able to fit a better material over it.
I think he said it's an outdoor wood drying "kiln" behind the house
that he just wants to look decent.

I's just use board and batten lumber siding and let it weather grey.

On 4/11/2014 6:24 PM, Michael wrote:
> On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
>>
>>> OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and mud.
>
> I should have been more specific. Outdoor. But as Mike says, maybe I should just use a decent ply.
>
> Thanks.
>
Considering it is used for sheathing and is glued up wafers... you would
think it does well outdoors. But I have found it rots fast, blows up
when water gets into it... (considering it's mostly glue I don't
understand that).... Also I think the sun will cause it to fail if not
treated. I can't be sure, but I have seen OSB turn black and just flake
away, my suspicion was sun and heat.. but it could have been for other
reasons... I'm not sure... so I don't consider it a good outdoor wood,
without protection.

--
Jeff

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look
>>>>>>> like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>>>>>> cheap-looking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no
>>>>>> way to make a rough surface look good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into
>>>>>> gold... you just can't do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real
>>>>>> quickly,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>>>>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>>>>
>>>>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my
>>>>> shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws
>>>>> designed for particle board.
>>>>
>>>> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
>>>> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few
>>>> sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some
>>>> garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a
>>>> shipping crate it would be the tkt.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the
>>> late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out
>>> now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But
>>> I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years
>>> ago.
>>>
>>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them
>>> out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to
>>> work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water
>>> resistant.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not
>> recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason.
>>
>> But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that
>> doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw,
>> it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK
>> suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there
>> are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The
>> company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is
>> cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less
>> than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I
>> will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I
>> have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding...
>> And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the
>> manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away...
>>
>
>You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
>and tile and will never use cement board again.

I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are
a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up
in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic
shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile.
Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Friday, April 11, 2014 7:22:06 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:24:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>
>> >> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> > What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> > OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> >
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> > Thanks.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and mud.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >I should have been more specific. Outdoor. But as Mike says, maybe I should just use a decent ply.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Thanks.
>>
>> Or just put siding on it. Aluminum or vinyl, or even hardy-board or
>>
>> Masonite hardboard siding. ANYTHING looks better than a 4'X8' straw
>>
>> bale.
>
>It was going to side my solar wood kiln, so maybe the heat inside (polycarbonate surface plus painted black inside) makes the material even less desirable if heat affects its structural properties. I'm going to put the kiln behind the garage where it's not going to be seen very often, but I still don't like the look of painted OSB even back there. My materials list calls for 5 sheets of 4x8, so I'm looking at an additional cost of about $50.00 if I use good plywood.

Youl save that in paint.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 15:24:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
>>
>> > OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and mud.
>
>I should have been more specific. Outdoor. But as Mike says, maybe I should just use a decent ply.
>
>Thanks.
Or just put siding on it. Aluminum or vinyl, or even hardy-board or
Masonite hardboard siding. ANYTHING looks better than a 4'X8' straw
bale.

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:28:52 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 12/13/17 7:54 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:35:15 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/13/2017 2:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw blades but I sharpen them myself.
>>>
>>> Want to say fiber glass, epoxy and micro balloons ala Lew miss him.
>>
>> Drywall compound or veneer - - -
>>
>
>That's what I was about to write.
>However, it seems like a whole lot of work to go through just to avoid
>using the correct product to begin with. :-)


Lipstick on a pig.

RE: Subject

What is the old saying about making a silk purse from a pig's ear?

You can't get there from here.

Lew

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 3:30:22 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/12/14, 12:30 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:25:00 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> >> On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >>> Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> > Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>
> >
>
>
>
> Absolutely. But there's always a chance I'm reading their specs wrong.
>
> Best thing to do is to call their tech support and ask them their
>
> recommendation for the specifics of your application.
>
>
>
> People often mistakenly presume that the purpose of cement board is to
>
> fortify or strengthen a sub-floor with too much deflection. That is not
>
> its purpose at all and it would be very poor at doing so.
>
>
>
> Remember, the cement is serving two purposes. To uncouple the tile job
>
> from the sub-floor so they they can expand/contract independently of
>
> each other. And to prevent swelling (much greater and faster movement
>
> than seasonal expansion) of the sub-floor from moisture/water soaked
>
> into it from the wet environment above it.
>
>
>
> When I removed the old tile from my bathroom before our remodel, it was
>
> still is pristine condition after 20 years. It consisted of 4x4 tiles
>
> on a thick self-leveling cement bed, on top of tar paper. The tar paper
>
> was enough to allow independent movement of the sub-floor and mortor
>
> bed, while the cement bed soaked up any moisture allowing it to
>
> evaporate without soaking into the sub-floor.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> -MIKE-
>
>
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
>
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
>
> --
>
> http://mikedrums.com
>
> [email protected]
>
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Thanks for the info. That makes the bathroom project much more do-able. The internets was useful today.

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 17:35:15 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 12/13/2017 2:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw blades but I sharpen them myself.
>
>Want to say fiber glass, epoxy and micro balloons ala Lew miss him.

Drywall compound or veneer - - -

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:11:28 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 2:53 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> > On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>
> >> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> >
>
> > Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks.
>
> >
>
> Damn that's a good price?? Where.. I need to make a blast cabinet for
>
> sand blasting. I wouldn't even use the OSB for that...
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeff

Milwaukee, WI. He had only one more sheet to sell. Thank you, Craigslist.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael <[email protected]>
wrote:

>What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?

The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear poly OSB.


http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-table.jpg

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-chair.jpg

http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg

http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6665359/il_570xN.346149090.jpg

http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg

http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in-love-with-osb?sMiniImg=0

On Friday, April 11, 2014 6:08:42 PM UTC-5, Spalted Walt wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael <[email protected]>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?
>
>
>
> The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear poly OSB.
>
>
>
>
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-table.jpg
>
>
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-chair.jpg
>
>
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg
>
>
>
> http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6665359/il_570xN.346149090.jpg
>
>
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg
>
>
>
> http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in-love-with-osb?sMiniImg=0

Once you see it, you can't un-see it.

On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
>
>
> Thanks.

Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks.

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 3:05:41 PM UTC-5, Morgans wrote:
> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> >> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>
> >
>
> > Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>
>
>
>
>
> Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about.
>
>
>
> Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a base in
>
> making paneling. Don't use that.
>
>
>
> Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real product
>
> we are talking about.
>
>
>
> The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker. Brand
>
> name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows.
>
>
>
> Sure. That is exactly what it is designed for.
>
>
>
> The key is to:
>
> Use a material that allows some movement in relation to the wood underneath
>
> it.
>
> Use a material that allows the mastic or grout to grab onto.
>
> Has a co-efficient of expansion similar to the stone or tile being installed
>
> on it.
>
> Does not deteriorate over time as it is exposed to the moisture always
>
> present when in contact with masonry products.
>
>
>
> Meet those requirements, and you have a winner. Hardibacker or cement
>
> board, both qualify.
>
> --
>
> Jim in NC
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>
> http://www.avast.com

Awesome. Good to know. Thanks.

On 4/12/2014 2:53 PM, Michael wrote:
> On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:26:34 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Update: A guy was selling 1/2 inch plywood for 9 bucks a sheet. No need for OSB for this project. Thanks.
>
Damn that's a good price?? Where.. I need to make a blast cabinet for
sand blasting. I wouldn't even use the OSB for that...

--
Jeff

On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 9:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>
>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
>>> doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>
>>> It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was
>>> laid on top of it... The builder was an idiot.
>>>
>>> And that's how I feel about it... :-)
>>
>> Pretty much how I feel about OSB as well. As a builder, I will not
>> use OSB for sheathing or roof decking, period.
>>
>
> I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically
> Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?

Technically ... like a Maserati is an automobile. ;)

--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/11/2014 10:00 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go
> figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?

And still do. Builder's use it for one main reason ... it's cheaper than
alternative products.

--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/11/2014 11:21 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "woodchucker" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor.
>> Go figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?
>
> Let me guess. A laver of 1/2" OSB applied to the joists or trusses,
> then 5 /8" MDF underlayment (sawdust board)?
>
> That was a popular cheap way to do it back then. I never liked it, and
> never did it that way.

OSB on top of OSB. :-(

You tell me.. can you hear me screaming.
Let me tell you about my foundation/sill. The sill plate is not on the
foundation.. it wanders off of it.
The brick on the outside is tell tale... it is behind the foundation..

We are the second owners... I didn't notice all the defects until I
moved in...

Electrical... disaster.

This was a highly respected builder... I have no idea how they made it..
They are out of business now.. When everything fell apart the owner retired.


--
Jeff

On 4/11/2014 11:39 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the
>> weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it
>> would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor
>> giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break.
>
> Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with
> other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of
> the product.
>
> I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with
> floor heights from one room to the next.
>
>> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
>> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked
>> out porcelain tiles..
>
> I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't
> use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal
> experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they
> do it all the time.
>
The price for the SD is higher than the per tile price that she picked
out... damn...


--
Jeff

On 12/13/2017 2:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw blades but I sharpen them myself.
>

OK, do you have any pictures posted somewhere for us to look at? ;~)

On 4/11/2014 10:42 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
> joists in similar fire conditions.

And, IME, great pains are taken in modern building science and
structural engineering/building codes to mitigate that as an issue to
basically a moot point.

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On 4/11/2014 11:17 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!
>>
>> I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
>> when they are done to precision.
>>
>
> And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-)
>
>
Yea, my house had an area w/o a ply sister-ed in... I had to cut the
pipe, reinforce the joist, then use a coupler to join the waste pipe
back in.. I think my builders got their license from the cracker jack box...


--
Jeff

On 4/11/2014 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>>
>> Amen ...
>>
>>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between
>>> sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again.
>>
>> Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is
>> heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of
>> layers between floors is an issue.
>>
>
> I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers
> are carrying it now, with better prices and availability.
>
>

Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the
weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it
would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor
giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break.

So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked
out porcelain tiles..

--
Jeff

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>> The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension
>> lumber...

>Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?

No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated 2x4
web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber joists in
similar fire conditions.

On 4/11/2014 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
> doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>
> It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was laid on
> top of it... The builder was an idiot.
>
> And that's how I feel about it... :-)

Pretty much how I feel about OSB as well. As a builder, I will not use
OSB for sheathing or roof decking, period.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!

I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
when they are done to precision.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
>> Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim
>> coat it with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and
>> paint.
>> John

>Ugh! That will certainly work, but for my money, it's way too much work
>compared to simply using a better material.

Which is why I had the qualifying clause "if it's got to be OSB" ;~)

John

On 4/11/2014 8:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.

This^

... big fan of Advantech for subfloors, particularly over crawlspaces:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/Framing?authkey=Gv1sRgCM2M672etqm4iAE#5411822041576783458


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>> cheap-looking.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to
>> make a rough surface look good.
>>
>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you
>> just can't do it.
>>
>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly,
>
> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't
> supposed to stay wet.
>
>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>
>
> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it?
> I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax
> screws designed for particle board.

Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily worked
with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of OSB in
the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage project. I got it
for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate it would be the tkt.

>
> In my opinion, no ply product holds nails well and they shouldn't be
> used when screws are available.
>
>
I would agree.


--
Jeff

On 12/13/2017 5:35 PM, Markem wrote:
> On 12/13/2017 2:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw blades but I sharpen them myself.
>
> Want to say fiber glass, epoxy and micro balloons ala Lew miss him.
>

LOL. Did you get a question out of that post?

On 4/12/2014 10:47 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>>> Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?
>>
>>> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
>>> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
>>> joists in similar fire conditions.
>>
>> Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it.
>> A fire is a fire. Shit's going down. :-)
>
> In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter,
> buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling
> through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run
> higher. There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I
> recall, Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name
> New England Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as
> the same problem exists there.
>
Yep, here in nj all commercial buildings must have a sign showing the
type of roof construction. One fire dept lost many fireman (I think 5)
when the roof collapsed. I'm not sure it would have made a difference
for that fire, as they had to know in a flat roof that it was a truss
roof..

--
Jeff

I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw blades but I sharpen them myself.

Michael, I use OSB everywhere in my huge shop. Skim coat with drywall compound is extremely fast and you save lots of money on paint. My guess is that it takes about 3 times as much paint to do nude OSB.
Ivan Vegvary

On 12/13/2017 3:29 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/13/2017 2:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I make models out of OSB. I find it can be cut thin to almost a veneer
>> but before I do that I take a belt sander to it. The stuff kills saw
>> blades but I sharpen them myself.
>>
>
> OK, do you have any pictures posted somewhere for us to look at?  ;~)

A good fire will usually do the job (but don't breath the fumes -- the glue
is nasty).

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:30:22 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/12/14, 12:30 PM, Michael wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:25:00 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.
>>>
>>
>> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>>
>
>Absolutely. But there's always a chance I'm reading their specs wrong.
>Best thing to do is to call their tech support and ask them their
>recommendation for the specifics of your application.
>
>People often mistakenly presume that the purpose of cement board is to
>fortify or strengthen a sub-floor with too much deflection. That is not
>its purpose at all and it would be very poor at doing so.

Actually, it works very well for that purpose. It won't fix a rotten
subfloor but it is as good or better than any other sheet goods for
the purpose. The recommendations I've seen are a minimum of 1-1/4" of
subflooring under tile. 3/4" ply with 1/2" Hardibacker works.

>Remember, the cement is serving two purposes. To uncouple the tile job
>from the sub-floor so they they can expand/contract independently of
>each other. And to prevent swelling (much greater and faster movement
>than seasonal expansion) of the sub-floor from moisture/water soaked
>into it from the wet environment above it.
>
>When I removed the old tile from my bathroom before our remodel, it was
>still is pristine condition after 20 years. It consisted of 4x4 tiles
>on a thick self-leveling cement bed, on top of tar paper. The tar paper
>was enough to allow independent movement of the sub-floor and mortor
>bed, while the cement bed soaked up any moisture allowing it to
>evaporate without soaking into the sub-floor.

Interesting. I would have thought the tar paper would allow too much
movement.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

>>> Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?
>
>> No, the wooden floor trusses used in residential construction... plated
>> 2x4 web (or I-joists for that matter) fail before dimension lumber
>> joists in similar fire conditions.
>
>Makes sense, but I think the trade-off is worth it.
>A fire is a fire. Shit's going down. :-)

In some areas fire departments will withdraw from, or not even enter,
buildings with wood truss or I-joist construction as the risk of falling
through the floor is greater. In those cases the losses tend to run higher.
There was an extensive article on this some years ago in, as I recall,
Journal of Light Construction (or maybe under it's previous name New England
Builder). The article talked about roof structures also as the same problem
exists there.

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:25:00 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
> >>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> >>>> On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
> >>>>> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> >>>>>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look
>
> >>>>>>>> like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>
> >>>>>>>> cheap-looking.
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks.
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no
>
> >>>>>>> way to make a rough surface look good.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into
>
> >>>>>>> gold... you just can't do it.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real
>
> >>>>>>> quickly,
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>
> >>>>>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my
>
> >>>>>> shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws
>
> >>>>>> designed for particle board.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
>
> >>>>> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few
>
> >>>>> sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some
>
> >>>>> garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a
>
> >>>>> shipping crate it would be the tkt.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the
>
> >>>> late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out
>
> >>>> now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But
>
> >>>> I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years
>
> >>>> ago.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them
>
> >>>> out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to
>
> >>>> work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water
>
> >>>> resistant.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not
>
> >>> recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that
>
> >>> doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw,
>
> >>> it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK
>
> >>> suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there
>
> >>> are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The
>
> >>> company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is
>
> >>> cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less
>
> >>> than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I
>
> >>> will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I
>
> >>> have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding...
>
> >>> And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the
>
> >>> manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away...
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>
> >> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
>
> >> and tile and will never use cement board again.
>
> >
>
> > I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are
>
> > a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up
>
> > in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic
>
> > shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile.
>
> > Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.
>
> >
>
>
>
> FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> -MIKE-
>
>
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
>
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
>
> --
>
> http://mikedrums.com
>
> [email protected]
>
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 16:05:41 -0400, "Morgans"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote
>>> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>>
>> Are you saying that 1/4 hardboard over plywood will work for tile?
>
>
>Make sure you are understanding what material we are talking about.
>
>Hardboard is masonite type stuff, sometimes used as pegboard or as a base in
>making paneling. Don't use that.
>
>Hardiboard is not anything, but it is close to describing the real product
>we are talking about.
>
>The name of the stuff we are talking about is called hardibacker. Brand
>name. If you use that, then the answer is as follows.

Yes. Thank you. I was thinking about Hardiboard ("no, that's not
right - that's the clapboard stuff") and then Hardipanel ("no, that's
the stuff for board-and-batten"), must be... <rats!>

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:12:06 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/12/14, 5:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:25:00 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE-
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to
>>>>>>>>>>> be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply.
>>>>>>>>>> There is no way to make a rough surface look good.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it
>>>>>>>>>> into gold... you just can't do it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real
>>>>>>>>>> quickly,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building
>>>>>>>>> material aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have
>>>>>>>>> it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially
>>>>>>>>> those Spax screws designed for particle board.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've
>>>>>>>> primarily worked with and been frustrated with. Although
>>>>>>>> I have a few sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am
>>>>>>>> waiting to use on some garbage project. I got it for $1
>>>>>>>> and figured if I ever need a shipping crate it would be
>>>>>>>> the tkt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff
>>>>>>> in the late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The
>>>>>>> OSB that's out now is much different. It's still OSB, so
>>>>>>> it is what it is. But I've found it to be much improved
>>>>>>> over the stuff from 25 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check
>>>>>>> them out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and
>>>>>>> are great to work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are
>>>>>>> very water resistant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues
>>>>>> do not recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to
>>>>>> be a reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but
>>>>>> that doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even
>>>>>> hold a screw, it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been
>>>>>> following the AZEK suits. The product is quickly failing in
>>>>>> many locations.. yes there are many sucesses too. The problem
>>>>>> is where it is failing. The company says we don't guarantee
>>>>>> the look, but the product is cracking, chalking, etc... why
>>>>>> would you buy a product that in less than a year is failing.
>>>>>> Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I will pay 4 times
>>>>>> for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I have
>>>>>> aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap,
>>>>>> siding... And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with
>>>>>> PLY. Are the manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell
>>>>>> it and walk away...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>>>>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between
>>>>> sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There
>>>> are a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all
>>>> come up in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of
>>>> the plastic shower stall). I've had very good results with
>>>> Hardiboard under tile. Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only
>>>> problem, in past jobs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.
>>
>> That would save 1/4", but I thought that was for walls (over
>> sheetrock). Anyway, I wanted to stiffen the floors, too. Worked
>> great. I'll probably use it again, on this house. I have four
>> bathrooms and a laundry to do (I hate vinyl flooring).
>>
>
>3/4"-1/4"=1/2", no?

-(Thinset x 2)

>According to their website, it's for floors, too. Again, I always call
>their tech support to clarify their published product specs when matched
>against my project specs.

On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 6:28:56 PM UTC-8, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/13/17 7:54 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

> > Drywall compound or veneer - - -

> That's what I was about to write.
> However, it seems like a whole lot of work to go through just to avoid
> using the correct product to begin with. :-)

Wallpaper is slightly less work.

The 'halfway decent' goal is a low bar,
... but if you need to do it TWICE you've definitely got a bad plan

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:25:00 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/12/14, 9:52 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:55:33 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>>>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look
>>>>>>>>> like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>>>>>>>> cheap-looking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no
>>>>>>>> way to make a rough surface look good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into
>>>>>>>> gold... you just can't do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real
>>>>>>>> quickly,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>>>>>>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my
>>>>>>> shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws
>>>>>>> designed for particle board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
>>>>>> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few
>>>>>> sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some
>>>>>> garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a
>>>>>> shipping crate it would be the tkt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the
>>>>> late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out
>>>>> now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But
>>>>> I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years
>>>>> ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them
>>>>> out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to
>>>>> work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water
>>>>> resistant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not
>>>> recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason.
>>>>
>>>> But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that
>>>> doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw,
>>>> it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK
>>>> suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there
>>>> are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The
>>>> company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is
>>>> cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less
>>>> than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I
>>>> will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I
>>>> have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding...
>>>> And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the
>>>> manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away...
>>>>
>>>
>>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
>>> and tile and will never use cement board again.
>>
>> I'm sure the tile in my bathroom is over just the plywood. There are
>> a couple of loose tiles by the tub because of it. It'll all come up
>> in a year or so when we redo the bathroom (and get rid of the plastic
>> shower stall). I've had very good results with Hardiboard under tile.
>> Raising the floor 3/4" has been the only problem, in past jobs.
>>
>
>FWIW, Hardiboard comes in 1/4" thickness for use on floors.

That would save 1/4", but I thought that was for walls (over
sheetrock). Anyway, I wanted to stiffen the floors, too. Worked
great. I'll probably use it again, on this house. I have four
bathrooms and a laundry to do (I hate vinyl flooring).

"Michael" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?
>It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.

Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim coat it
with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and paint.

John

On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:13:41 PM UTC-5, Bob La Londe wrote:
> "Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
>
> > OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
> Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and mud.

I should have been more specific. Outdoor. But as Mike says, maybe I should just use a decent ply.

Thanks.

On 4/11/2014 10:18 PM, Morgans wrote:
> If you were to in any way compare OSB and Advantec (engineered subfloor
> composite board) I would argue most strenuously. They are not the same
> product. Not even close.

No, you are entirely correct they are not the same product.

That said, Advantech is indeed technically an "oriented strand board"
(OSB) product in the way it is manufactured, just like both are
technically "plywood".

But what a difference ... ;)

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On 4/11/2014 10:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers
> are carrying it now, with better prices and availability.

Yep, but not all stores have it on the shelf with regularity like they
do with Hardi; and the last I paid for it was around $1.60sf, which can
eat a big hole in a tight tile budget.

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On 4/11/2014 10:55 PM, Morgans wrote:

> Tell me this, as the final test. You go into a lumberyard. You ask for
> some OSB. You going to get OSB sheathing, or you getting Advantec?
>
> I rest my case.

You would be resting on shaky ground as far as building codes go, which
is where the rubber meets the road.

FACT: for building science and code purposes both are considered the
same material, and the term "wood structural panel" is used as a
singular description for either.

Sorry, Bubba ... but there is simply no room for your argument on that
score.


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On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
>Thanks.
Cover it with Masonite first???

On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:12:44 -0500, DanG <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/11/2014 2:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
>
>Despite so many nay sayers, I have made several outstanding things from
>MDF. Anywhere that it has been cut, routed, or is just the porous edge
>will soak up paint forever, so the trick is to seal the cuts. Drywall
>compound works. shellac and latex metal primer work well also. You do
>need to sand the edges with fine paper. It takes paint beatifully.
>
>I have done a few things in high gloss black that I defy you to tell
>what I used
BIG difference between MDF and OSB. As different as balsa and oak .

On 4/11/2014 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:

> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about the
> weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile (obviously it
> would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it is the subfloor
> giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to break.

Actually, and IME, there is less chance of cracks with Ditra than with
other methods. AAMOF, that is one of the advantages/selling points of
the product.

I particularly like using it, as I stated, when there is an issue with
floor heights from one room to the next.

> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife picked
> out porcelain tiles..

I'm not one to run with the herd in building circles, and since I don't
use common OSB flooring, I could not answer that from personal
experience, but both builder acquaintances, and my tile crew, say they
do it all the time.

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Michael wrote:

> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>

Simple - don't use OSB.

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-Mike-
[email protected]

John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim
> coat it with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and
> paint.
> John

Ugh! That will certainly work, but for my money, it's way too much work
compared to simply using a better material.

--

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[email protected]

"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
> OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> Thanks.

Indoors or outdoors? If outdoors stucco. If indoors a hopper gun and mud.

On 4/11/14, 2:48 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted
>> OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so cheap-looking.
>
> Well, if it's got to be OSB, and assuming it is for indoor use, skim
> coat it with drywall joint compound and sand smooth... then prime and
> paint.
>
> John

Yeah, that. ^^^^^


--

-MIKE-

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--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>> cheap-looking.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way to
> make a rough surface look good.
>
> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold... you
> just can't do it.
>
> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly,

Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material aren't
supposed to stay wet.

> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>

I'm curious, when's the last time you used it?
I have it in my shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax
screws designed for particle board.

In my opinion, no ply product holds nails well and they shouldn't be
used when screws are available.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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--
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On 4/11/14, 6:08 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT), Michael <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like painted OSB?
>
> The secret is to NOT paint OSB, only stain, BLO, or clear poly OSB.
>
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-table.jpg
>
> http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/rowe-chair.jpg
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126323.jpg
>
> http://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6665359/il_570xN.346149090.jpg
>
> http://www.cmstatic1.com/28434/28434.126863.jpg
>
> http://www.archilovers.com/p87550/in-love-with-osb?sMiniImg=0
>
>

Those are some of the ugliest examples of "furniture" I've seen in my
life.
And I've been to Ikea.


--

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--
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look like
>>>> painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>>> cheap-looking.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no way
>>> to make a rough surface look good.
>>>
>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into gold...
>>> you just can't do it.
>>>
>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly,
>>
>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>
>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>
>>
>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my shop
>> and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws designed
>> for particle board.
>
> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few sheets of
> OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some garbage
> project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a shipping crate
> it would be the tkt.
>

That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late
80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is
much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it
to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago.

If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 9:39 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/11/14, 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 4/11/2014 8:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 4/11/14, 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 4/11/2014 3:26 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>>> What's the secret to painting OSB so that it doesn't look
>>>>>> like painted OSB? It doesn't have to be great, just not so
>>>>>> cheap-looking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The secret is buying sanded, maple, or birch ply. There is no
>>>>> way to make a rough surface look good.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's like how to I take a piece of crap and turn it into
>>>>> gold... you just can't do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real
>>>>> quickly,
>>>>
>>>> Anything will rot when it stays wet. Wood building material
>>>> aren't supposed to stay wet.
>>>>
>>>>> it doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious, when's the last time you used it? I have it in my
>>>> shop and it holds screws great! Especially those Spax screws
>>>> designed for particle board.
>>>
>>> Well the house was built in 87 and that's the OSB I've primarily
>>> worked with and been frustrated with. Although I have a few
>>> sheets of OSB in the basement, that I am waiting to use on some
>>> garbage project. I got it for $1 and figured if I ever need a
>>> shipping crate it would be the tkt.
>>>
>>
>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the
>> late 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out
>> now is much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But
>> I've found it to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years
>> ago.
>>
>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them
>> out. They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to
>> work with and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water
>> resistant.
>>
>>
>
> So for flooring the companies that make the mortar, or glues do not
> recommend OSB under any tile, or stone. There has to be a reason.
>
> But I would probably agree that the product has changed, but that
> doesn't help my problem of it being CRAP. It won't even hold a screw,
> it just flakes away... garbage. Have you been following the AZEK
> suits. The product is quickly failing in many locations.. yes there
> are many sucesses too. The problem is where it is failing. The
> company says we don't guarantee the look, but the product is
> cracking, chalking, etc... why would you buy a product that in less
> than a year is failing. Same with the OLD OSB.. it's crap.. that I
> will pay 4 times for. I have already started replacing sheathing. I
> have aluminum siding. So I have to replace sheathing, wrap, siding...
> And who's to pay.. I don't have that problem with PLY. Are the
> manufacturers going to pay... hell no. They sell it and walk away...
>

You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between sub-floor
and tile and will never use cement board again.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 9:53 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 8:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
>> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
>> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.
>
> This^
>
> ... big fan of Advantech for subfloors, particularly over crawlspaces:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/Framing?authkey=Gv1sRgCM2M672etqm4iAE#5411822041576783458
>

Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 9:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 3:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> OSB is an awful material in my opinion. It rots real quickly, it
>> doesn't hold nails or screws real well.
>>
>> It's been misused by builders over and over. My slate floor was
>> laid on top of it... The builder was an idiot.
>>
>> And that's how I feel about it... :-)
>
> Pretty much how I feel about OSB as well. As a builder, I will not
> use OSB for sheathing or roof decking, period.
>

I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically
Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?


--

-MIKE-

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--
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!
>
> I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
> when they are done to precision.
>

And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-)


--

-MIKE-

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--
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[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote

> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late
> 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is
> much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it
> to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago.
>
> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.

If you were to in any way compare OSB and Advantec (engineered subfloor
composite board) I would argue most strenuously. They are not the same
product. Not even close. In the first place, OSB is made cheaply to cover
large areas economically, where strength is not key. The engineered
subfloor is very strong, and used because it does not suffer from
delaminating and voids as modern plywood seems to suffer. It is also quite
expensive, in comparison to OSB.

Advantec is still not to be used under tile because no wood is rated for
direct contact with masonry unless is is treated, and Advantec is not. Wood
also does not have the same coefficients of expansion as tile, and therefore
is not a good choice of material for bonding to masonry. Advantec, however,
shows very little signs of swelling or coming apart in flakes when exposed
to the weather, even for long periods of time. I have seen it weather for
nearly a year with very little changes other than discoloration.
--
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On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>
> Amen ...
>
>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between
>> sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again.
>
> Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is
> heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup of
> layers between floors is an issue.
>

I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the big-boxers
are carrying it now, with better prices and availability.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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--
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"woodchucker" <[email protected]> wrote

> Again, the idiots that built my house thought it was a good subfloor. Go
> figure. Did the OSB manufacturers back then advertise it as such?

Let me guess. A laver of 1/2" OSB applied to the joists or trusses, then 5
/8" MDF underlayment (sawdust board)?

That was a popular cheap way to do it back then. I never liked it, and
never did it that way.
--
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On 4/11/14, 10:18 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> That's what I figured. I remember working with the stuff in the late
>> 80s and early 90s and it was pretty nasty. The OSB that's out now is
>> much different. It's still OSB, so it is what it is. But I've found it
>> to be much improved over the stuff from 25 years ago.
>>
>> If you ever run across Advantech or Norbord Truflor, check them out.
>> They are very advanced OSB subflooring sheets and are great to work with
>> and strong as an ox. Also, they are very water resistant.
>
> If you were to in any way compare OSB and Advantec (engineered subfloor
> composite board) I would argue most strenuously. They are not the same
> product. Not even close. In the first place, OSB is made cheaply to
> cover large areas economically, where strength is not key. The
> engineered subfloor is very strong, and used because it does not suffer
> from delaminating and voids as modern plywood seems to suffer. It is
> also quite expensive, in comparison to OSB.
>
> Advantec is still not to be used under tile because no wood is rated for
> direct contact with masonry unless is is treated, and Advantec is not.
> Wood also does not have the same coefficients of expansion as tile, and
> therefore is not a good choice of material for bonding to masonry.
> Advantec, however, shows very little signs of swelling or coming apart
> in flakes when exposed to the weather, even for long periods of time. I
> have seen it weather for nearly a year with very little changes other
> than discoloration.

As I mentioned to Karl, they are all Oriented Strand Board.
As he said, a Maserati is an automobile, too. So it a Buick. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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--
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---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote

> I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because technically
> Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?

Only in the same way that all chip type engineered lumber products do have
the strands oriented. For technical definitions, OSB is the stuff people
use for roof sheeting and wall sheeting that is not tongue and groove. The
products like Advantec and Goldbond are engineered wood products for floor
use and are tongue and groove. The chips and ratio of fine particles are
greatly different, and so is the compression and the type of glue.

So no, Advantec and their ilk are not OSB.
--
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On 4/11/14, 10:29 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>> On 4/11/14, 10:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 4/11/2014 9:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oooooh, how I love floor trusses!
>>
>>> I particularly love them myself, a thing of beauty and functionality
>>> when they are done to precision.
>>
>> And no plumbers cutting 6" holes in a 10" joist. :-)
>
> The downside is that in a fire they fail far quicker than dimension
> lumber...

Are you thinking of metal wire trusses?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 10:29 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I guess wee need to specify what we're talking about because
>> technically Advantech is an Oriented Strand Board, no?
>
> Only in the same way that all chip type engineered lumber products do
> have the strands oriented. For technical definitions, OSB is the
> stuff people use for roof sheeting and wall sheeting that is not
> tongue and groove. The products like Advantec and Goldbond are
> engineered wood products for floor use and are tongue and groove.
> The chips and ratio of fine particles are greatly different, and so
> is the compression and the type of glue.
>
> So no, Advantec and their ilk are not OSB.

I know all that, but technically and in the industry, they are. Not the
same animal as has been more that adequately explained in this thread,
but OSB nonetheless.

I don't like to call it that, either, because it's so superior a product
and I don't like to "insult" it. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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--
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[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/11/14, 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/11/2014 11:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 4/11/14, 10:11 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 4/11/2014 9:55 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> You shouldn't put tile down over any wood product. Period.
>>>
>>> Amen ...
>>>
>>>> That's what cement board is for. I use Schluter-DITRA between
>>>> sub-floor and tile and will never use cement board again.
>>>
>>> Great product, not always handy when "we need two more rolls" is
>>> heard, a bit pricy for some budgets, but worth it when buildup
>>> of layers between floors is an issue.
>>>
>>
>> I think we've had this discussion before, but around here the
>> big-boxers are carrying it now, with better prices and
>> availability.
>>
>>
>
> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about
> the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile
> (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it
> is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to
> break.
>
> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife
> picked out porcelain tiles..
>

I can't explain it better than their website, but that never stopped me
before. :-)

Again, it must be repeated, mortar and tile should never be installed
directly on any wood product. I don't care how "advanced' it is. If it
expands and contracts at all, it's too much.

Cement-board is good but it doesn't really decouple and if your
sub-floor/joists have much deflection the grout lines will still crack
and you may get tiles separating from the mortar. The real purpose of
cement board is to receive any moisture that penetrates the tile and
mortor without soaking it up and swelling like a wood product will.

Ditra sheeting acts to decouple the subfloor from the mortar. Moisture
cannot penetrate. More so, however, it also allows
expansion/contraction above and below at different rates without any
friction or contact.
If there's too much deflection in the floor, Schluter suggests an
engineered sub-floor before the Ditra. But, I've known tile
contractors who use it on very unstable floors with great success and
long term durability.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote

> That said, Advantech is indeed technically an "oriented strand board"
> (OSB) product in the way it is manufactured, just like both are
> technically "plywood".
>
Nope. Strand board is not plywood. Plywood is layers of veneers, usually
with alternating layers at right angles to each other. Not a stack of chips
oriented and glued and compressed.

It is all engineered wood products. OSB is manufactured to a totally
different set of standards to the strands that are oriented in the
engineered product known as Advantec. There are strands, but the lengths
and widths of the chips are different, with Advantec strands being much
longer and more narrow. They also have a much higher percentage of strands
oriented in the long direction in Advantec compared to OSB.

Tell me this, as the final test. You go into a lumberyard. You ask for
some OSB. You going to get OSB sheathing, or you getting Advantec?

I rest my case.
--
Jim in NC


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On 4/11/14, 10:31 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> Ok, after checking out this stuff online... the SD stuff. what about
> the weight of someone walking on it, won't that crack the tile
> (obviously it would not sell if that were the case BUT), I think it
> is the subfloor giving that is causing the slate and grout lines to
> break.
>
> So if you put down this SD over ply or OSB, wouldn't this still be an
> issue? They say that tiles can be done over ply or osb.. My wife
> picked out porcelain tiles..
>

I'm not sure I was clear in this, but the Ditra is absolutely designed
and purposed to go right over any sub-floor surface.
If going down over a wood product (ply, OSB, engineered sub-floor), they
recommend a latex additive to the mortar that will attach the Ditra to
the sub-floor. That's the only stipulation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply