Painting pressure treated lumber

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:04:42 -0400, "Existential Angst"
<[email protected]> wrote:



>
>Too late. Plus this is stockade fencing, not too many local choices.
>Basically it looked sturdy and was there.
>Plus a kind of experimental installation, so I went cheap/convenient, not
>really planning too much ahead.
>Turned out pretty well, so now the painting issue.

I'd use a solid stain. Durable and less likely to peel. I used in on
my deck with good results on the railings and balusters. On the flat
portion of the decking, it does not hold up so well with foot traffic.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:34:04 -0700 (PDT), bob haller <[email protected]>
wrote:

>never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>paint adhesion.........
>
>and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
>wood still fails.......


Composite had its share of failures in the past too. Don't go for the
cheapest stuff if you go that way.

There are also many woods that made good decks, but are pricey too.
Mahogany, ipe, etc. I used tiger wood a couple of months back.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:34:04 -0700 (PDT), bob haller <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>> paint adhesion.........
>>
>> and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
>> wood still fails.......
>
>
> Composite had its share of failures in the past too. Don't go for the
> cheapest stuff if you go that way.

Not just in the past. An alarming number of manufacturers have gone belly
up and the rest are defending class action law suits. Well - maybe not all
of them, but most, for sure. Composite may be able to redeem itself over
time, but its history and its present offerings are something that brings to
mind the phrase "buyer beware...". One should do 30 minutes worth of
research before accepting anything a salesman for composite decking has to
say. And... it's not just the cheap guys. The best of them have problems
you don't want to be facing in 5 years or less.

>
> There are also many woods that made good decks, but are pricey too.
> Mahogany, ipe, etc. I used tiger wood a couple of months back.

Agreed. And not even that expensive. There are some good cost comparisons
out there that compare woods like Ipe with Composites. The inteligent buyer
might want to invest a few minutes in looking at those.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I think PT is just a pain in the ass no matter how you cut it...

Make sure you wear a mask at the other end, too!

--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t. ­
John Gierach

Leon wrote:
> On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
>> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>> paint adhesion.........
>>
>
> Actually have never had a problem with paint peeling on PT provided
> the lumber was "dry".
>

I guess I never got to that level of dry. And... I've painted as much as a
year after installation.

>
>
>
>> and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
>> wood still fails.......
>>
>
> Agreed.

Look at the ongoing issues with composites. The promise on the showroom
floor is not what people actually realize a couple of years down the road.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 9/29/12 12:41 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>> I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
>> weeks to a year. Latex paint...
>> What's the deal?
>>
>> And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
>> It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a
>> cupla
>> days.
>> Does rain further extend the wait?
>> Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??
>>
>> Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside,
>> of
>> course), if it thoroughly painted?
>> In the northeast. Any special painting methods required?
>>
>
> I don't know how long you need to wait.
>
> As for paint... might I suggest an opaque stain. Depending on the
> concentration and size of pigment, it will get deeper into the grain of
> the wood than paint, but from a distance looks like paint. It lasts a
> lot longer than paint and fades instead of flaking/peeling.
>
> Last porch I built, I used PT lumber with a white opaque stain. Up close
> you could still see the grain of the wood, which was an attractive
> feature. From the road, it looked like a newly painted white porch. It
> stayed bright white for several years.

Good idear, I'll look into it. I wouldn't use white stain tho, something
red-ish -- which fades quickly in ultraviolet.
Is there an exterior polyurethane that can protect pigments form UV? Or are
there UV-impervious pigments?
--
EA


>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> [email protected]
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>

"bob haller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bcba2ebb-256d-416f-9191-a209cdd992dd@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
> paint adhesion.........
>
> and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
> wood still fails.......

Hmmmm..... how bout if I torched the wood, to sort of surface-singe it?
Would that help adhesion?
--
EA

"bob haller" wrote:


buy from a major long term manufacturer...........

honestly i DONT LIKE WOOD for long term outdoor use.....

concrete doesnt cost that much more and lasts far longer.......
-----------------------------------------------
HDPE anybody?

Lew

"thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:43:10 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:
>
>
>> Hmmmm..... how bout if I torched the wood, to sort of surface-singe
>> it?
>> Would that help adhesion?
>
> If you are going through that trouble, why not use KDAT instead? Kiln
> Dried After Treatment

Too late. Plus this is stockade fencing, not too many local choices.
Basically it looked sturdy and was there.
Plus a kind of experimental installation, so I went cheap/convenient, not
really planning too much ahead.
Turned out pretty well, so now the painting issue.
--
EA

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but
>> exterior paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still
>> they need to be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi
>> strongly suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from
>> coming in contact with the back side of the paint surface. I
>> personally have not had great results with painting fresh PT lumber
>> but do agree that the longer you wait the trade off of a less than
>> desirable surface, appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.
>
> So - I can't offer a definitve comment to this - only personal experience.
> Up here in Central NY, over the years I have never had any success in
> painting PT. It does not matter if I painted it early on, or let it age
> for a year - or longer. For me... PT and paint just never seemed to be a
> combination that lasted more than a couple of years.
>
> Now stain... I won't say I get a hell of a lot more life out of a coat of
> stain. Maybe a year longer sometimes. The difference lies in what
> happens as the finish fails. Paint peels and becomes an ugly thing.
> Stain fades. To re-paint I have to scrape all that crap and do it all over
> again. With stain - just re-apply it.
>
> I have not seen where either has proven to be better than the other over
> PT, but stain is sure a lot easier to re-apply.
>
> I think PT is just a pain in the ass no matter how you cut it...

Might a stain make a good primer for paint?
--
EA



>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>

"Existential Angst" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
> weeks to a year. Latex paint...
> What's the deal?
>
> And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
> It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a cupla
> days.
> Does rain further extend the wait?
> Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??
>
> Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside, of
> course), if it thoroughly painted?
> In the northeast. Any special painting methods required?

Appreciate all the varied responses -- a surprising lack of consensus!! But
all good perspective on the problem.

If I can ascertain if stain might make a good primer for paint, I'll try
that. Altho, perhaps a good way to go would be to just find a suitable
stain, spray that on, see how it holds up, and then try painting in a year
or two if the stain fades, doesn't hold up, etc..

Someone mentioned painting at 50+ F. Does that apply to stain, as well??
If so, I'll have to sort of trade off drying time with temp, as fall is
already here.

alt.home.repair was trimmed from this piece of the thread, but since it was
the only ref, I though the ahr people could benefit from it.

==============
> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings-a situation
> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
> is applied."
>
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>


Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
====================

I thought the ".... coated as soon as possible...." was interesting.

So basically I'm going to just give this a shot. My cobbled-up paint
sprayer will make this a whole lot easier, that is f'sure.
--
EA







> --
> EA
>
>
>

I put rec.woodworking back in the header, figgered a few would find this
useful.
--
EA


"nestork" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The reason they recommend leaving pressure treated wood to dry for a
> while before painting it is because the pressure treatment process
> involves injecting water soluble chemicals into the wood under pressure.
> And, it takes time for the water forced into the wood to evaporate out
> again. Also, weather conditions vary and some paints (like
> top-of-the-line) exterior latex paints will allow moisture to pass
> through the paint film without lifting, whereas any kind of oil based
> paint will be lifted off the substrate as the water inside it evporates.
> So, there's no such thing as a "one drying period" fits all solution.
> Better to get a wood moisture meter and wait until the wood dries to a
> 19 percent moisture content, which is the same as kiln dried lumber.
> It should be paintable then.
>
> 'Existential Angst[_2_ Wrote:
>> ;2935537']Is there an exterior polyurethane that can protect pigments
>> form UV? Or are there UV-impervious pigments?
>>
>
> Exterior wood stains and clear coats will use transparent metal oxides
> for UV protection. These metal oxides are transparent and either
> colourless (clear), yellow, orange or brown in colour under visible
> light, but are opaque to UV light. So, they help add a warm "amber"
> look to exterior coatings to be used over wood, but they block UV light
> from penetrating through the coating to damage the substrate.
>
> But to answer your question, there are pigments used in architectural
> paints that are unaffected by UV light, and that would never fade. But,
> that doesn't mean that the apparant colour your eye sees won't change.
> In southern climates, the intense UV light will cause the paint binder
> to deteriorate, causing the paint to "chaulk" and the result will be
> that the paint will appear to fade in colour as the surface gets rougher
> and rougher.
> Similarily, interior latex paints will gradually darken as airborne dirt
> particles accumulate on the paint's surface.
>
> Here's a post I wrote up a long time ago when I was posting on a
> different forum:
>
> ROCKS ARE GOOD AT BEING OPAQUE, BUT THEY'RE EVEN BETTER AT BEING OLD.
>
> By the time you finish reading this post, that statement will make much
> more sense than it does right now, and it'll help you decide on which
> colours you want to see in your exterior paint's tinting formula, and
> which ones you don't.
>
> There are different kinds of pigments used in architectural paints;
> coloured pigments determine the colour the paint film dries to, and
> extender pigments determine the gloss level the paint film dries to:
>
> There are two kinds of coloured pigments:
>
> A. Organic Pigments (produced from chemicals in a lab)
> The pigments used to tint architectural paints to the correct colour can
> be broken down into two categories; organic and inorganic, and each of
> those categories can be broken down into natural and synthetic. While
> artists often prefer natural pigments, the standard for architectural
> paints is synthetic organic and synthetic inorganic pigments which can
> be manufactured to precise colours repeatedly.
>
> In general, it can be said that organic pigments are the "colourwheel"
> colours like red, blue and yellow, and all the secondary colours that
> can be made by mixing these three primary colours, like green, orange,
> purple, magenta, etc.
>
> On the one hand, these organic pigments don't have good hide, but they
> disperse well in the paint so a small amount of colourant goes a long
> way to both change the colour of the paint as well as hide the
> underlying colour.
>
> Also, these organic pigments aren't as stable, and tend to fade more
> rapidly due to exposure to the Sun than inorganic pigments.
>
> B. Inorganic pigments (synthetic equivalent of coloured rocks)
> The inorganic pigments you'll find in a typical paint tinting machine a
> 1. White - which is titanium dioxide
> 2. Yellow Oxide - which is a mustard yellow in colour and is the
> synthetic equivalent of "Raw Sienna", which is named after the Italian
> village of Sienna where the rocks and soil are a mustard yellow colour.
> 3. Red Oxide - is reddish brown in colour, and it's the most common form
> of iron oxide. The Planet "Mars" is reddish brown in colour because of
> the iron oxide in the rocks, sand and dust on it's surface.
> 4. Brown Oxide is another iron oxide that's very close to chocolate
> brown in colour.
> 5. Raw Umber is a very dark brown that can almost be mistaken for black,
> and
> 6. Black - which is actually soot made by burning natural gas is special
> furnaces with insufficient oxygen so that copious amounts of soot are
> formed.
>
> All of these "inorganic pigments" are the synthetic equivalent of the
> pulverized rock dust that artists have been using to paint with for
> millenia. Basically, they are synthetic rock dust that has all the same
> properties as pulverizing a real rock into dust, and using that dust as
> coloured pigments in a paint to give that paint colour and opacity.
>
> Because rocks are pretty good at being opaque, paints that get their
> colour from rock dust tend to hide better than paints made from organic
> pigments like red, yellow and blue. Unfortunately, one of the problems
> with inorganic pigments is that they tend to want to clump together, and
> it's this clumping together of inorganic pigments that lowers their
> effectiveness at changing the colour of paint when tinting, and hiding
> an underlying colour. But, all things considered, inorganic pigments
> (best though of as pulverized rocks) make for better hiding paint than
> organic pigments.
>
> Since synthetic red oxide pigment contains the same rust molecules that
> you find on cars, the synthetic and natural versions of inorganic
> pigments have identical properties. They hide equally well and are
> damaged by the same kinds of things; like acids. So, when we talk about
> synthetic paint pigments, it's not a stretch to talk about them as
> pulverized natural rocks.
>
> Now, ANYTHING that is 300 million years old HAS TO BE extremely
> chemically stable or it would have decomposed by now. That chemical
> stability manifests itself in the fact that rocks are also extremely
> colour fast. If you turn over a rock that's been sitting in the Sun for
> 100 years, after cleaning and drying, you'll find the bottom is the same
> colour as the top! Rocks don't fade due to exposure to UV light, and
> neither does paint that gets it's colour from synthetic rock dust. So,
> since the planet Mars is just about exactly the same colour as the rust
> on my car, it's fair to say that Mars hasn't faded at all in the coupla
> billion years it's been exposed to the Sun.
>
> So, pulverized rocks make for a better hiding paint, but it's the
> extreme chemical stability of rocks that make them immune to fading due
> to exposure to the Sun. That is, the shear age of rocks is an
> indication of their extreme chemical stability, and that chemical
> stability manifests itself as resistance to fading from exposure to the
> Sun when you pulverize a rock and use the powder to provide colour and
> opacity in your paint.
>
> WHITE paints deserve special mention. There are different kinds of white
> pigments used in paints. Titanium dioxide is the most commonly used
> white pigment, and it has the highest hide of all white pigments except
> lead carbonate, (which they haven't used since 1974). However, the hide
> you get from titanium dioxide will depend on not only how much titanium
> dioxide is in the paint, but how well dispersed it is and how large
> those titanium dioxide pigments are. If they're too large, or too small,
> they won't "diffract" light well, which means that light won't bend much
> when it passes near a titanium dioxide pigment particle. So, different
> white paints can have different hiding ability just because of the
> amount of titanium dioxide in the paint (and generally the more TiO2 in
> the paint, the whiter the paint will be in colour). But, even paints
> with equal amounts of TiO2 in them may have considerably different
> hiding ability just because of the dispersion and size of the TiO2
> particles in the paint. The problem with using TiO2 in exterior latex
> paints is that it acts as a catalyst in the process by which exposure to
> intense sunlight causes paint binder resins to "chaulk". So, a paint
> that's white because it has white titanium dioxide pigments in it will
> chaulk more outdoors than a paint that's white because it has white lead
> carbonate pigments or white zinc oxide pigments in it.
>
> Consequently, in exterior paints intended for sale in southerly
> latitudes (like Texas, Florida and Southern California) it's most common
> to use zinc oxide as the white pigment in white, off-white or pastel
> colours than titanium dioxide.
>
> Zinc oxide doesn't have as good hide as TiO2, but like copper, arsenic
> and boron, zinc is a natural fungicides, so using ZnO as the white
> pigments helps suppress the growth of mildew and mold on light coloured
> exterior paints. And, of course, the degree of dispersion and particle
> size are also important in paints that use ZnO as their white pigment.
>
> Titanium dioxide is the second highest hiding pigment used in house
> paints. The highest hiding is black, which is actually carbon soot.
>
>
>
>
> --
> nestork

On 09/29/2012 05:12 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> bob haller wrote:
>
>>
>> buy from a major long term manufacturer...........
>
> The whole point is that there are not any - or not many long term
> manufacturers of this stuff. The attritirion rate in that manufacturing
> industry is staggering. The best of warranties have proven to be worthless.
> This is an industry that demands a closer look and not just falling back on
> a long term manufacturer.
>
>>
>> honestly i DONT LIKE WOOD for long term outdoor use.....
>
> Well - everyone does have their preferences.
>
>>
>> concrete doesnt cost that much more and lasts far longer.......
>
> And... they are doing some really cool things with concrete these days.
>

http://www.wimp.com/traintrack/


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 18:49:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:



>>
>> There are also many woods that made good decks, but are pricey too.
>> Mahogany, ipe, etc. I used tiger wood a couple of months back.
>
>Agreed. And not even that expensive. There are some good cost comparisons
>out there that compare woods like Ipe with Composites. The inteligent buyer
>might want to invest a few minutes in looking at those.


I bought mine at www.advantagelumber.com 25 boards and hardware to do
a 12 x 16 deck was about $1000 delivered. This is what I bought
http://www.advantagelumber.com/tigerwood_decking.htm

If you like wood, this is lovely to look at. I gave it a Penofin oil
treatment.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:15:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:30:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 9/29/2012 2:54 PM, Nova wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>>>>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>>>>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>>>>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>>>>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>>>>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>>>>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>>>>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>>>>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>>>>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>>>>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>>>>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>>>>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>>>>> is applied."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>>>> mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>>>> paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
>>>
>>> I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
>>> deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
>>> his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
>>> guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
>>> up better than stain.
>>>
>>
>>The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but exterior
>>paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still they need to
>>be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi strongly
>>suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from coming in
>>contact with the back side of the paint surface. I personally have not
>>had great results with painting fresh PT lumber but do agree that the
>>longer you wait the trade off of a less than desirable surface,
>>appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.
>
>Cement board like Hardi should be painted on all six sides prior to
>going up on a house. Ditto wood products.

I understand the reasoning behind painting all six sides of wood (painting the
ends is way too much6 of a PITA) but why Hardi? Doesn't it come primed?

On Sep 29, 7:00=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
> >> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
> >> paint adhesion.........
>
> > Actually have never had a problem with paint peeling on PT provided
> > the lumber was "dry".
>
> I guess I never got to that level of dry. =A0And... I've painted as much =
as a
> year after installation.
>
>
>
> >> and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
> >> wood still fails.......
>
> > Agreed.
>
> Look at the ongoing issues with composites. =A0The promise on the showroo=
m
> floor is not what people actually realize a couple of years down the road=
.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

buy from a major long term manufacturer...........

honestly i DONT LIKE WOOD for long term outdoor use.....

concrete doesnt cost that much more and lasts far longer.......

bob haller wrote:

>
> buy from a major long term manufacturer...........

The whole point is that there are not any - or not many long term
manufacturers of this stuff. The attritirion rate in that manufacturing
industry is staggering. The best of warranties have proven to be worthless.
This is an industry that demands a closer look and not just falling back on
a long term manufacturer.

>
> honestly i DONT LIKE WOOD for long term outdoor use.....

Well - everyone does have their preferences.

>
> concrete doesnt cost that much more and lasts far longer.......

And... they are doing some really cool things with concrete these days.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:41:28 -0400, "Existential Angst"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
>weeks to a year. Latex paint...
>What's the deal?
>
>And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
>It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a cupla
>days.
>Does rain further extend the wait?
>Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??
>
>Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside, of
>course), if it thoroughly painted?
>In the northeast. Any special painting methods required?

According to the Forest Products Lab:

"Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
is applied."

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>
>> concrete doesnt cost that much more and lasts far longer.......
>
> And... they are doing some really cool things with concrete these
> days.

For some time, I understand, they've been making railroad cross-ties out of
concrete.

Evidently some believe that concrete will last longer than
creosote-impregnated wood...

On 9/30/2012 9:56 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 09:26:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/29/2012 7:52 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:30:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>
>> Hardi may all come primed now but it did not always. It used to come in
>> a cement grey color.
>>
>> And, I can assure you 90% of Hardi does not get primed on all six sides.
>> Construction crews don't paint the ends after cutting to length. I
>> suspect that caulk will substitute.
>
> You're probably right, but it's taught in the BEST Continuing Ed class
> that I just finished yesterday. That very many people do so is fairly
> unlikely, but the better builders will, and I will in the future.
> Swingy, what's your company's stance on this?

Yeah, sorry I did not mean to sound like I was disputing what you said,
I agree totally. It just does not happen most of the time. As I
mentioned, Hardi gets cut and hopefully if possible it is caulked to
cover the newly exposed surface. Still my old next door neighbor had
the older unprimed Hardi installed on their house and have yet to paint
it at all 6~7 years later, still looks the same. The cement color very
closely matched the color of the rest of the house.

On 9/29/2012 7:52 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:15:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:30:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/29/2012 2:54 PM, Nova wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>>>>>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>>>>>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>>>>>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>>>>>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>>>>>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>>>>>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>>>>>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>>>>>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>>>>>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>>>>>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>>>>>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>>>>>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>>>>>> is applied."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>>>>> mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>>>>> paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
>>>>
>>>> I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
>>>> deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
>>>> his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
>>>> guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
>>>> up better than stain.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but exterior
>>> paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still they need to
>>> be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi strongly
>>> suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from coming in
>>> contact with the back side of the paint surface. I personally have not
>>> had great results with painting fresh PT lumber but do agree that the
>>> longer you wait the trade off of a less than desirable surface,
>>> appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.
>>
>> Cement board like Hardi should be painted on all six sides prior to
>> going up on a house. Ditto wood products.
>
> I understand the reasoning behind painting all six sides of wood (painting the
> ends is way too much6 of a PITA) but why Hardi? Doesn't it come primed?
>


Hardi may all come primed now but it did not always. It used to come in
a cement grey color.

And, I can assure you 90% of Hardi does not get primed on all six sides.
Construction crews don't paint the ends after cutting to length. I
suspect that caulk will substitute.

Leon wrote:

>
> The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but
> exterior paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still
> they need to be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi
> strongly suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from
> coming in contact with the back side of the paint surface. I
> personally have not had great results with painting fresh PT lumber
> but do agree that the longer you wait the trade off of a less than
> desirable surface, appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.

So - I can't offer a definitve comment to this - only personal experience.
Up here in Central NY, over the years I have never had any success in
painting PT. It does not matter if I painted it early on, or let it age for
a year - or longer. For me... PT and paint just never seemed to be a
combination that lasted more than a couple of years.

Now stain... I won't say I get a hell of a lot more life out of a coat of
stain. Maybe a year longer sometimes. The difference lies in what happens
as the finish fails. Paint peels and becomes an ugly thing. Stain fades.
To re-paint I have to scrape all that crap and do it all over again. With
stain - just re-apply it.

I have not seen where either has proven to be better than the other over PT,
but stain is sure a lot easier to re-apply.

I think PT is just a pain in the ass no matter how you cut it...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
paint adhesion.........

and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
wood still fails.......

Existential Angst wrote:

>
> Might a stain make a good primer for paint?
>

Nope. Why do you need a primer? To fill? Then use a real primer - stain
will not fill. Otherwise? Just paint.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 16:30:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller <[email protected]>
wrote:



>
>honestly i DONT LIKE WOOD for long term outdoor use.....
>
>concrete doesnt cost that much more and lasts far longer.......


Yeah, but my deck is 8' off the ground and getting the wheelbarrow of
concrete up the steps is a bitch.

The framing is PT and is in perfect condition after 25 years. I have
a concrete patio under the deck too. The 4 x 4 deck supports are in
metal brackets on the concrete.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 09/29/2012 05:12 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:

>>
>> And... they are doing some really cool things with concrete these
>> days.
>
> http://www.wimp.com/traintrack/

Very cool - but I was thinking more about concrete countertops and the
likes.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:41:18 -0400, "[email protected]"
>I painted all the (PT) railings on my deck and front porch on my VT house.
>Peeling was a major problem and I had to repaint every couple of years. Stain
>didn't last any longer.

Which would make sense since PT wood is already engorged with chemical
preservatives. There isn't any available wood fibre left for the paint
to soak in and adhere to it.

On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 06:42:19 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
>For some time, I understand, they've been making railroad cross-ties out of
>concrete.
>
>Evidently some believe that concrete will last longer than
>creosote-impregnated wood...

Some special attribute of this concrete to prevent it cracking from
vibration?

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:53:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 10/2/2012 9:25 AM, Hell Toupee wrote:
>> On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
>>> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>>> paint adhesion.........
>>
>> Geez, I replaced my fascia and soffits with PT lumber in 2000. Primed
>> and painted it, and the paint still holds tight and lookin' good.
>>
>> What did I do wrong?
>>
>
>
>And that is where I use PT painted. I think others are referring to a
>surface that is walked on, a deck or porch.

Not even walked on. My balusters and rails would peel every couple of years,
too. It's places that get and stay wet for periods of time. Fascia and
soffits, particularly, don't tend to stay wet.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 09:26:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 9/29/2012 7:52 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:30:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:

>Hardi may all come primed now but it did not always. It used to come in
>a cement grey color.
>
>And, I can assure you 90% of Hardi does not get primed on all six sides.
> Construction crews don't paint the ends after cutting to length. I
>suspect that caulk will substitute.

You're probably right, but it's taught in the BEST Continuing Ed class
that I just finished yesterday. That very many people do so is fairly
unlikely, but the better builders will, and I will in the future.
Swingy, what's your company's stance on this?

I already prime cuts in PT because I know the wood will quickly
corrupt otherwise. I tried for over a year to find a
termiticide/stain on the market but they discontinued it and our
gov't, in its wisdom, made it -illegal- to make your own replacement
or modify any existing product! I now use a brown deck stain (with
mildewcide but no bug killer) on brown PT and you can still buy
green-died preservative (I have some Jassco Termin-8 for the green
PT.)

Not priming every cut reduces the lifetime of the siding. That's why
JH strongly suggests that we do prime it everywhere, back and cuts. If
your paint peels and you didn't prime, you're SOL.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:22:11 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 10/2/12 11:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:53:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/2/2012 9:25 AM, Hell Toupee wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
>>>>> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>>>>> paint adhesion.........
>>>>
>>>> Geez, I replaced my fascia and soffits with PT lumber in 2000. Primed
>>>> and painted it, and the paint still holds tight and lookin' good.
>>>>
>>>> What did I do wrong?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And that is where I use PT painted. I think others are referring to a
>>> surface that is walked on, a deck or porch.
>>
>> Not even walked on. My balusters and rails would peel every couple of years,
>> too. It's places that get and stay wet for periods of time. Fascia and
>> soffits, particularly, don't tend to stay wet.
>>
>
>He was replying to someone who said "PT chemicals prevent paint
>adhesion," which isn't true.

I have no direct information there but I've never had problems with paint
sticking to the trim on the house. Same paint. Same prep. The trim wasn't
PT, though.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>
>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>> is applied."
>>
>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>
>
>
>Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.

I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
up better than stain.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:41:28 -0400, "Existential Angst"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
>> weeks to a year. Latex paint...
>> What's the deal?
>>
>> And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
>> It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a cupla
>> days.
>> Does rain further extend the wait?
>> Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??
>>
>> Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside, of
>> course), if it thoroughly painted?
>> In the northeast. Any special painting methods required?
>
> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>
> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
> is applied."
>
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>


Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 09:26:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 9/29/2012 7:52 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:15:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:30:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/29/2012 2:54 PM, Nova wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>>>>>>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>>>>>>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>>>>>>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>>>>>>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>>>>>>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>>>>>>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>>>>>>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>>>>>>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>>>>>>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>>>>>>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>>>>>>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>>>>>>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>>>>>>> is applied."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>>>>>> mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>>>>>> paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
>>>>> deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
>>>>> his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
>>>>> guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
>>>>> up better than stain.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but exterior
>>>> paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still they need to
>>>> be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi strongly
>>>> suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from coming in
>>>> contact with the back side of the paint surface. I personally have not
>>>> had great results with painting fresh PT lumber but do agree that the
>>>> longer you wait the trade off of a less than desirable surface,
>>>> appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.
>>>
>>> Cement board like Hardi should be painted on all six sides prior to
>>> going up on a house. Ditto wood products.
>>
>> I understand the reasoning behind painting all six sides of wood (painting the
>> ends is way too much6 of a PITA) but why Hardi? Doesn't it come primed?
>>
>
>
>Hardi may all come primed now but it did not always. It used to come in
>a cement grey color.
>
>And, I can assure you 90% of Hardi does not get primed on all six sides.
> Construction crews don't paint the ends after cutting to length. I
>suspect that caulk will substitute.

Right. Painting the cut ends is a RPITA. How do you keep the paint from
drying in the can? ...On the brush?

"Existential Angst" <[email protected]> writes:

> "thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:43:10 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hmmmm..... how bout if I torched the wood, to sort of surface-singe
>>> it?
>>> Would that help adhesion?
>>
>> If you are going through that trouble, why not use KDAT instead? Kiln
>> Dried After Treatment
>
> Too late. Plus this is stockade fencing, not too many local choices.
> Basically it looked sturdy and was there.
> Plus a kind of experimental installation, so I went cheap/convenient, not
> really planning too much ahead.
> Turned out pretty well, so now the painting issue.

I put up stockade type fencing made of PT 3 years ago:

http://mysite.verizon.net/despen/fence/

One part is 2 years older than that.

There is nothing on the wood and it still looks as good as when I built
it. I wouldn't dream of painting it, that would be a huge mistake.

--
Dan Espen

On 9/29/12 12:41 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
> weeks to a year. Latex paint...
> What's the deal?
>
> And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
> It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a cupla
> days.
> Does rain further extend the wait?
> Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??
>
> Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside, of
> course), if it thoroughly painted?
> In the northeast. Any special painting methods required?
>

I don't know how long you need to wait.

As for paint... might I suggest an opaque stain. Depending on the
concentration and size of pigment, it will get deeper into the grain of
the wood than paint, but from a distance looks like paint. It lasts a
lot longer than paint and fades instead of flaking/peeling.

Last porch I built, I used PT lumber with a white opaque stain. Up close
you could still see the grain of the wood, which was an attractive
feature. From the road, it looked like a newly painted white porch. It
stayed bright white for several years.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/29/12 12:56 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Last porch I built, I used PT lumber with a white opaque stain. Up close
>> you could still see the grain of the wood, which was an attractive
>> feature. From the road, it looked like a newly painted white porch. It
>> stayed bright white for several years.
>
> Good idear, I'll look into it. I wouldn't use white stain tho, something
> red-ish -- which fades quickly in ultraviolet.
> Is there an exterior polyurethane that can protect pigments form UV? Or are
> there UV-impervious pigments?
>

I just brought up white because it's the color we used on our porch.
I'm no expert but in my experience nothing will stand up to UV... for
very long.
I'm sure a good paint shop could tell you what's out there that works
best.
Maintaining outdoor woodwork has always been arduous.
Engineered composite lumber has held up to UV so far, as advertised,
from what I can tell.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:43:10 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:


> Hmmmm..... how bout if I torched the wood, to sort of surface-singe
> it?
> Would that help adhesion?

If you are going through that trouble, why not use KDAT instead? Kiln
Dried After Treatment

On 10/1/12 8:52 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> And... they are doing some really cool things with concrete these days.
>>
>
> http://www.wimp.com/traintrack/
>

Thanks for that. Coolest. Thing. ever.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
> paint adhesion.........

Geez, I replaced my fascia and soffits with PT lumber in 2000. Primed
and painted it, and the paint still holds tight and lookin' good.

What did I do wrong?

On 10/2/12 11:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 09:53:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 10/2/2012 9:25 AM, Hell Toupee wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
>>>> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>>>> paint adhesion.........
>>>
>>> Geez, I replaced my fascia and soffits with PT lumber in 2000. Primed
>>> and painted it, and the paint still holds tight and lookin' good.
>>>
>>> What did I do wrong?
>>>
>>
>>
>> And that is where I use PT painted. I think others are referring to a
>> surface that is walked on, a deck or porch.
>
> Not even walked on. My balusters and rails would peel every couple of years,
> too. It's places that get and stay wet for periods of time. Fascia and
> soffits, particularly, don't tend to stay wet.
>

He was replying to someone who said "PT chemicals prevent paint
adhesion," which isn't true.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:54:31 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
><snip>
>>>
>>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>>
>>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>>> is applied."
>>>
>>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>>
>>
>>
>>Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>>mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>>paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
>
>I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
>deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
>his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
>guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
>up better than stain.

I painted all the (PT) railings on my deck and front porch on my VT house.
Peeling was a major problem and I had to repaint every couple of years. Stain
didn't last any longer.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:41:28 -0400, "Existential Angst"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
>weeks to a year. Latex paint...
>What's the deal?
>

Contains a lot of moisture and the paint will peel. I'd wait a year
or so.


>And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
>It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a cupla
>days.
>Does rain further extend the wait?

Not really, the rain does not get absorbed because the PT is saturated
with other chemicals.


>Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??
>
Nope, peeling is peeling.


>Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside, of
>course), if it thoroughly painted?

Look at the oldest house in your town. Chances are it is from the
1700's and if painted and cared for, still in good condition.


>In the northeast. Any special painting methods required?

Wait for the snow to melt. Read the can, most paints should be 50
degrees or more, a few can tolerate 40 degrees.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:30:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 9/29/2012 2:54 PM, Nova wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>>>
>>>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>>>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>>>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>>>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>>>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>>>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>>>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>>>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>>>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>>>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>>>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>>>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>>>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>>>> is applied."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>>> mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>>> paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
>>
>> I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
>> deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
>> his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
>> guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
>> up better than stain.
>>
>
>The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but exterior
>paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still they need to
>be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi strongly
>suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from coming in
>contact with the back side of the paint surface. I personally have not
>had great results with painting fresh PT lumber but do agree that the
>longer you wait the trade off of a less than desirable surface,
>appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.

Cement board like Hardi should be painted on all six sides prior to
going up on a house. Ditto wood products.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On 10/2/2012 9:25 AM, Hell Toupee wrote:
> On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
>> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
>> paint adhesion.........
>
> Geez, I replaced my fascia and soffits with PT lumber in 2000. Primed
> and painted it, and the paint still holds tight and lookin' good.
>
> What did I do wrong?
>


And that is where I use PT painted. I think others are referring to a
surface that is walked on, a deck or porch.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:32:50 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>> and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
>> wood still fails.......
>Agreed.

Hell, everything fails given enough time. Let's put some quantifiable
time numbers on that failure rate.

On 9/29/2012 4:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
> never paint PT wood, as it will just peel the PT chemicals prevent
> paint adhesion.........
>

Actually have never had a problem with paint peeling on PT provided the
lumber was "dry".




> and you far better off using composite decking because over time PT
> wood still fails.......
>

Agreed.

On 9/29/2012 2:54 PM, Nova wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 14:40:37 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/29/2012 1:51 PM, Nova wrote:
> <snip>
>>>
>>> According to the Forest Products Lab:
>>>
>>> "Contrary to the belief of many consumer's and paint companies, it is
>>> not necessary to allow newly installed pressure-treated wood to
>>> weather or season for long periods of time before applying a coating.
>>> Most newly built CCA treated wood decks can band should be protected
>>> with a water repellent, toner or semi-transparent stain as soon as
>>> possible after construction. Research has shown that exposing
>>> unprotected wood to weathering for even short periods of time can
>>> cause surface damage. This damaged surface reduces the ability
>>> of the wood to hold onto subsequently applied coatings—a situation
>>> that can ultimately lead to premature coatings failure. This, unless
>>> the new treated wood is still very wet, it should be coated as soon as
>>> possible after deck construction. If the wood is obviously wet, no
>>> more than 2-3 weeks of air-drying should be allowed before a coating
>>> is applied."
>>>
>>> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2000/ross00b.pdf
>>>
>>
>>
>> Good to know but I noticed that most suggested coverings that you
>> mentioned above are not opaque, as paint is. So I would surmise that
>> paint would not be a good coating for new PT wood.
>
> I really can't think of anyone I know who actually painted and entire
> deck. This summer my neighbor did paint the railings and pergola on
> his deck. I can let you know how it holds up in a few years. I would
> guess given, the higher amount of solids in paint, that it will hold
> up better than stain.
>

The OP mentioned painting PT lumber. Not sure in the North but exterior
paints tend to hold up very well compared to stains. Still they need to
be applied to a suitable surface, a dry one. IIRC Hardi strongly
suggests a primer on their products to block moisture from coming in
contact with the back side of the paint surface. I personally have not
had great results with painting fresh PT lumber but do agree that the
longer you wait the trade off of a less than desirable surface,
appearance wise becomes another problem in itself.

On 9/29/2012 12:41 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> I've read you have to delay painting PT lumber from everywhere from two
> weeks to a year. Latex paint...
> What's the deal?

PT lumber is typically very very high in moisture content. Read that as
often soaking wet. Paint needs to stay dry on the side that it adheres
to a surface. If moisture saturates the surface under the paint the
paint will fail.



>
> And, how does one tell if PT wood is ready to be painted?
> It feels quite wet from the lumberyard/HD, but seems much drier in a cupla
> days.
> Does rain further extend the wait?
> Does a sprayer allow you paint sooner than brushing/rolling??

Use a moisture meter or wait at least year. Method of application has
nothing to do with how long the paint will last on a poor surface.

That said some better lumber yards, not home centers, carry kiln dried
PT lumber, this is what you want if you want to paint right away.


>
> Also, just curious: Will non-PT wood last as long as PT wood (outside, of
> course), if it thoroughly painted?

That will depend on the wood. Fur, SYP, mahogany, ipe, cedar are a few
commonly used woods for out door use with no protection or paint.

Dave wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 06:42:19 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
>>For some time, I understand, they've been making railroad cross-ties out of
>>concrete.
>>
>>Evidently some believe that concrete will last longer than
>>creosote-impregnated wood...
>
> Some special attribute of this concrete to prevent it cracking from
> vibration?
>
In Japan they use a rubber pad between the rail plate and the concrete.

--
G.W. Ross

Whatever their other contributions to
society lawyers could be an important
source of nutrition.