O/T: Major Sea Changes

> Illegal Aliens. They deserve a bus ride to the Mexican border.

> It's been tried. They generally beat the bus back.

> Razor wire backed by an electric fence - the kind the Gestapo used.

> I was thinking claymores.
------------------------------------
A collection of comments from the bigots.

Add the white sheets and you are in business.

Lew

"Jack Stein" wrote:

> Myself, I was born in America, so I guess I'm an American.

Jack Stein AKA: Floyd R Turbot, American.

Lew

On Mar 24, 1:06=A0am, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> 2) The Republicans always have to have a margin of victory that exceeds t=
he
> margin of vote fraud. =A0In this case, the anger is so significant, the m=
argin
> of fraud would be noticeable even to the leftist media.
>

*shaking my head in disbelief*
YOU dare to talk about vote fraud after what happened in 2000 Florida?

On Mar 22, 11:50=A0am, Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:34:10 -0700, Doug Winterburn
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >We already have a program for the indigent:
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
>
> I know you do. I just made a mistake in calling it Medicare instead of
> Medicaid.

Fukkum, Dave, just fukkum. Some people have no soul.

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:02:47 -0500, the infamous Upscale
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:30:02 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
... snip
>
> Now the gov't says I'm going to have to pay about $600 a MONTH for a
> benefit I won't receive and can't use for the next 5 years? If this
> is the case, there's no way the public will stand for it. Bad shit's
> about to happen, methinks.
>

Actually, you are better off paying the fine. Since the legislation also
stipulates that you can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions,
you wait until you get sick, then buy insurance -- you can't be denied.

The fact that this will put insurance companies out of business has not
escaped the notice of the congresscritters -- to them, this is a feature,
not a bug. As soon as the insurance companies are driven out of business,
the government gets to step in with single-payer true socialized medicine
since "no other alternative is available".

@#$%'d communists.

>
> --
> If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
> shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
> -- Samuel Butler

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> My point is that the Gestapo's razor wire could not keep people in a
>>>> little tiny prison, let alone a whole country, hence the notion that
>>>> "razor wire backed by an electric fence" will keep Mexicans out of the
>>>> US
>>>> is wishful thinking.
>>> Didn't do too bad containing the East Germans.
>>>
>> If it had been a single fence, it wouldn't have stopped anybody. The
>> guard
>> towers, dog runs and 100 yards of clear (shooting) space between fences
>> had
>> a lot to do with it. They rarely shot anyone though. They usually just
>> put
>> the dogs on them.
>>
>>
> How many of the 916 who died trying to cross were killed by the dogs?

I have no idea. Never an escape attempt while I was there. Going by locals.
Odd how the guards would hide when Americans were around. Probably would
have been a good time to escape.

On Mar 25, 9:44=A0am, Tim Daneliuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/25/2010 12:05 AM, LDosser wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Tim Daneliuk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On 3/24/2010 9:55 PM, LDosser wrote:
> >>> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>> LDosser wrote:
> >>>>> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >>>>>>> =A0 Those legislators who have decided to govern against the will=
of
> >>>>>>> the people (anywhere from 60 to 80% opposition depending upon the
> >>>>>>> poll) have sown the wind. =A0They can expect to reap the whirlwin=
d
> >>>>>>> come November.
>
> >>>>>> Depends on how many fake voter registrations ACORN can get going s=
o
> >>>>>> the votes don't exceed the number of registered voters., and if th=
e
> >>>>>> socialist bastards can get the illegal alien vote legalized... wel=
l,
> >>>>>> it's over.
>
> >>>>> ACORN is Folding.
>
> >>>> I heard today Obama has reopened the taxpayers money drain into ACOR=
NS
> >>>> pockets. =A0There is no way the socialist democratic party will let
> >>>> ACORN die since ACORN is 100% socialist democrat supporter, and best
> >>>> of all gets taxpayer money to fund its dirty work. =A0Even if the na=
me
> >>>> changes, it is still ACORN, with it's several hundred corrupt fronts=
.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jack
> >>>> Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
> >>>>http://jbstein.com
>
> >>> It really is FOLDING.
>
> >> But the same people will show up in other venues, peddling their
> >> political
> >> malignancies, and sponging off the working folk to pay for it. =A0The =
name
> >> and structure of the organization is immaterial ...
>
> > Smaller bugs are easier to crush.
>
> I don't know that the replacement will be smaller. ACORN was built on
> a Communist cell model with lots of smaller interlocking agencies,

Like The US Gov't and the military?

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:20:05 -0500, the infamous Upscale
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:29:25 -0700 (PDT), jtpr <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Well put. When did health care become a "right"? This is what drives
>>me crazy. It seems that suddenly everbody is entitled to everything
>>as a right. I actually saw somebody being interviewed (on the street)
>>that firmly belived they had a "right" to housing. Health care (and
>>housing) are not rights
>
>They're basic human rights shit head, not what's written into your
>constitution. They're moral rights that demand that everyone should be
>treated equally, not just because someone has more money or power than
>others around him.

Oh, you're talking about implied social contracts in society, aren't
you? Those aren't rights, either. They're societal rules. Our society
hasn't yet set those into stone, and they're not much closer with this
healthcare (I mean "forced health insurance") bill. this isn't a
gov't rounding up doctors and nurses under its wing and taking care of
its people. It's a contract between gov't and the insurance companies
where the gov't forces its people to make the insurance companies
rich. Some might get care, too, occasionally. Look into it more deeply
before climbing way up there on your moral high horse, sir. This is no
white knight saving the poor peasant from the mean robbers. In this
case, the knights are running a Mob protection racket and the little
guy is about to get reamed even worse than he has been.


>People like you however, just aren't capable of
>that kind of empathy. You're just too greedy and self centred to
>realize it.

Remind me what country you're from again, Uppy? Perhaps you just
don't understand our ways here. The only greed and self-centeredness
is in the gov't _itself_. Our CONgress voted itself TWO raises during
our current meltdown and recession. What do you call that?

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I assure you that health care will double in cost with the government
> involved. It seems that with more unemployeed, the more the government
> comes up with programs to employee those people, productive or not. Its
> wellfare.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/22/1542110/32310.html

On Mar 22, 8:00=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:40:54 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy <[email protected]=
m>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 22, 11:53=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> =A0If you haven't taken care of yourself why should
> >> you steal from me?
>
> >That is the stupidest thing you have ever posted... and that is saying
> >something.
>
> You've just been looking in your mirror again, comrade. =A0The stupid one=
s are
> those who don't understand, or care about, liberty. =A0You are a moron. =
=A0I
> understand uppity, he wants something for nothing.

OOooooooooo clever stuff there Skippy...

On Mar 22, 5:23=A0pm, vonKevin <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >They're basic human rights shit head, not what's written into your
> >constitution. They're moral rights that demand that everyone should be
> >treated equally, not just because someone has more money or power than
> >others around him. People like you however, just aren't capable of
> >that kind of empathy. You're just too greedy and self centred to
> >realize it.
>
> So tell me - Are you saying that no one should be allowed to buy
> better than the basic health care coverage, simply because there are
> people who can't afford it?
>
> I guess absolutely everyone should be paid exactly the same wage, too,
> huh?
>
> You be sure & let me know when you feel the need to go see a Cardiac
> Surgeon who gets paid the same as the moron flipping burgers down at
> McFood, Comrade.
>
Sounds to me you already have been misdiagnosed at the mental health
clinic.
NOBODY is denying anybody the right to upgrade their basic health
package.
NOBODY is advocating same wages for different levels of jobs/schooling/
responsibility/talent.
Your premise is so fucked as to be laughable, Kevin in Indy.
But I will tell you something, that moron flipping burgers is likely
to have a better moral outlook than your bigoted version thereof.
You, sir, are an asshole. (Notice I did not request my post to be
removed like yours, so yours will live on forever for all to laugh
at.)
When you are capable of rational thought, please come visit again. In
the meantime, the burger flipper probably has more right to his/her
paycheck than you do to yours.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:01:48 -0500, "Tom B"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Sometimes we all need a reminder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MC37aIRX5c
>What the real cost and levels of commitment are.

Very well said.

In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I assure you that health care will double in cost with the government
> involved. It seems that with more unemployeed, the more the government
> comes up with programs to employee those people, productive or not. Its
> wellfare.

Looking in from the outside, I wonder at the level of vitriol on both
sides when it appears no more than six of 350,000,000 have actually
READ the bill.

And I'm guessing that fewer than three of those are in your Senate,
Congress or White House.

It seems to me that both "sides" in this should be outraged, not at the
legislation itself, but rather at the manner it has been rammed down
your throats.

As a Canadian I understand the problems of a socialized medical system.
The response from a specialist here today to someone close to me when
asked to book a colonoscopy was "Sure, we can put you on the list, but
don't hold your breath."

In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Dave Balderstone" wrote:
>
> > It seems to me that both "sides" in this should be outraged, not at
> > the
> > legislation itself, but rather at the manner it has been rammed down
> > your throats.
> ----------------------------------------------
> If only we could turn back the hands of time and become flies on the
> wall to listen in on the process when the income tax laws were enacted
> almost 100 years ago.
>
> I'll bet it was much the same as the health care debate, and the
> country has somehow survived.

Do you not have transcripts of those debates? Newspaper records? I'm
sure you could find out if you wanted to.

Just guessing, but the Library of Congress seems to me to be a likely
starting point.

But Google reveals a fair bit if you're interested. Try this:

<http://openlibrary.org/b/OL6531545M/federal_graduated_income_tax_a_deba
te>

In article <[email protected]>, Chris
Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 03/22/2010 05:48 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
> > As a Canadian I understand the problems of a socialized medical system.
> > The response from a specialist here today to someone close to me when
> > asked to book a colonoscopy was "Sure, we can put you on the list, but
> > don't hold your breath."
>
> I'm a Canadian too. So far my own experiences and that of my family has
> been pretty good.

You're also here in Saskatoon, too.

> My father-in-law had two hip replacements when his mobility was
> impacted. My aging and diabetic aunt-in-law had what appears to be
> excellent care after a heart attack and several follow-up incidents. My
> brother had orthoscopic knee surgery when some cartilage came loose. I
> had steel pins pulled out of my knuckles after an accident abroad. My
> wife and I spent days in the hospital (many hours in a jacuzzi tub) for
> our first child and are using a midwife (also covered) for our second.
>
> To be fair, we had to wait months to see a pediatric
> gastrointestinologist. My sister had quite a wait to see a
> dermatologist. Both were non-life-threatening issues, though annoying.

My wife had to wait over a year for gall bladder surgery.
>
> Given that financial resources are limited, nothing is ever going to be
> perfect.

Then I should be allowed to use my financial resources.

> You can lean towards providing coverage for everyone but maybe
> not the best (especially in remote communities). Alternately you can
> provide really great (but really expensive) coverage for a smaller
> number of people.

So many people misunderstand what "universal health care" was intended
to do when initiated in Canada.

It was intended to protect families against financial ruin in the event
of serious illness. It was NOT intended to pay for a visit to the
doctor because someone's precious little snowflake has a sniffle, or a
splinter. The individual was supposed to pay that themselves.

> Or maybe there's a third way where we take a long
> hard look at the system and try and figure out better ways of doing
> it--neither the USA nor Canada does very well in the
> health-care-results-per-dollar-spent charts. I suspect there's some
> sort of asymptotic curve going on.
>
> Where I think it's going to get interesting all over is as the baby
> boomers get older and us genX and genY folks get left holding the bag.

Then you better start lobbying for change, and using your vote to get
it.

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Nuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:

> You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
> less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.

And that is the result of deliberate government policy. They closed
seats in medical schools.

In article <[email protected]>, Upscale
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:53:40 -0600, Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, Keith Nuttle
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
> >> less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.
>
> I suggest you do a little research before you blindingly jump on
> Nuttle's incorrect bandwagon.
>
> The current number of physicians per people in Canada is NOT
> significantly different. Despite spending more per capita, the U.S.
> does not deliver better medical care than many other countries.
>
> 26 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in the United States
> 19 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in Canada
>
> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/story.html?id=1894853

Do the math... 19 is 61% of 26. 39% isn't a significant difference?

There is a serious shortage of doctors in Canada, especially rural
Canada. This is a fact.

<http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM
0013191>

"A 2005 survey found that just 23 per cent of Canadians were able to
see a physician the same day they needed one - placing this country
last among the six studied, including the U.S., Britain and Australia.
Canada's doctor-patient ratio is among the worst of any industrialized
nation: with just 2.2 physicians per thousand people, it ranks 24th out
of 28 OECD countries (well below the average of three). And among the
G8 countries, Canada ranks dead last when it comes to physician
supply."


Also a fact is that this is the result of deliberate government policy
to reduce enrolment in medical schools in the 1990s.

<http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/article663115.ece>

Don't accuse me of blindly doing anything. You don't know me.

In article <[email protected]>, Mark &
Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:

> Upscale wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:53:40 -0600, Dave Balderstone
> > <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>In article <[email protected]>, Keith Nuttle
> >><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> You have to wait months for procedures because there are significantly
> >>> less doctors per 1000 people in Canada than in the US.
> >
> > I suggest you do a little research before you blindingly jump on
> > Nuttle's incorrect bandwagon.
> >
> > The current number of physicians per people in Canada is NOT
> > significantly different. Despite spending more per capita, the U.S.
> > does not deliver better medical care than many other countries.
> >
> > 26 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in the United States
> > 19 Number of physicians per 10,000 people in Canada
> >
> > http://www.nationalpost.com/m/story.html?id=1894853
>
> Math is not exactly your strong suit, is it?
>
> That's 27% fewer doctors per 10,0000 people compared to the US (referenced
> to the US allocation, 37% fewer referenced to the Canadian allocation) . It
> also means that the US has about 385 people per doctor while Canada has 526
> people per doctor. A difference of 142 people per doctor seems pretty
> significant.

And that's an average. There are rural towns of several thousand people
who have only one doctor, or none at all.

> If medical care in the US is not better than Canada, why did one of your
> country's leaders elect to have his heart surgery done in the US rather than
> Canada? Why do Canadians who can afford it coming to the US for treatment
> rather than enduring the waiting list in the equivalent care Canada?

"Danny Millions" is not only a leader, he is a provincial premier in a
country where health care is CONSTITUTIONALLY a provincial
responsibility. Not to mention that the procedure he underwent is
available in several other Canadian provinces.

Personally, I think he should have to resign.

In article <[email protected]>, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Isn't it amazing that the only examples opponents come up with are
> England and Canada? Yes, England's plan is screwed up. But I've spent a
> lot of time talking to Canadians about their plan and all of them, while
> admitting it could stand improvement, are on the whole quite pleased with
> it.

Our plan is on the brink of collapse. If we had been as affected by the
recent recession as the rest of the world was, we'd be f*cked. Health
care takes up almost 50% of the provincial budget here in Saskatchewan.

There is NO room left.

50%. Think about that.

On Mar 23, 4:22=A0pm, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I personally think it is the goal of extreme progressives to put as
> > many people into the situation that they NEED the government to
> > survive. =A0The more tax recipients that are there, the more they need
> > the government, and the longer these bozos stay in power.
>
> I see you didn't need my last post to you. =A0This is exactly right, othe=
r
> than the "extreme" adjective. =A0Progressives are simply "progressing"
> towards something and that is communism, and extreme is understood:-)
>

Yup! You are right: I didn't need that post! LOL!!

I think the progressives play into the emotions of people. Hell, it
is terrible seeing people who are down and out but, WTF? That will go
on and on forevermore. We will always have the poor and needy among
us. We will always have the widow and the orphan, so to speak. And,
yes, in these extreme cases, a little help is necessary but only
enough to get these people into the position to add to society, not
suck from others. All of the liberals I talk to are so damn myopic
and cling to the terrible things they see and hear and read about from
the media in this country. Dontcha know that stuff SELLS??

Like i have been opining: I want to go back to our real form of
government--a REPUBLIC. People think we are a democracy and we are
NOT. The founding fathers did not want a democracy. Thomas Jefferson
aid this about democracies: "A democracy is nothing more than mob
rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights
of the other forty-nine." And he was right and IS right!

John Adams said this about a democracy: "Democracy... while it lasts
is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember,
democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders
itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

And as for what happened on Sunday and this morning, with the
Democrats ramming something down the throats of the American people
even thought we did not want it, Jefferson said this: "Every
government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone.
The people themselves are its only safe depositories."

And Adams would have had this to say: "Power always thinks... that it
is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws."

Ugh. I am sick of this debate. But I am not going to roll over and
play dead and let the progressives take away this country of mine
without a fight.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dave Balderstone" wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that both "sides" in this should be outraged, not at the
>> legislation itself, but rather at the manner it has been rammed down
>> your throats.
> ----------------------------------------------
> If only we could turn back the hands of time and become flies on the wall
> to listen in on the process when the income tax laws were enacted almost
> 100 years ago.
>
> I'll bet it was much the same as the health care debate, and the country
> has somehow survived.
>
> Lew


It would have survived either way. But you are Ok with the
$11,000,000,000.00 dept and the shape California is in today because of
government trying to handle what it knows little about?

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4f5df409-229c-439e-b6bf-c750efab9621@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 22, 11:43 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Some of the major sea changes in my life.
>
> > VE Day was big, but VJ Day was bigger since it truly marked the end of
> > WWII.
>
> > My graduation from college, a dream my father had but didn't live to
> > see.
>
> > Enactment of the Civil Rights Act.
>
> > The passage of Medicare.
>
> > The birth of my children.
>
> > The end of the Viet Nam conflict
>
> > Today marks the latest major sea change in my life. The little guy won a
> > big one today with the passage of health care.
>
> > I'm sure the law of unattended consequences will apply, but the bus has
> > left the station, so hang on and enjoy the ride.
>
> I am confused,, so many here are sooooo against how SawStop was trying to
> force its product on to us and this is not a problem?

All they're trying to do is to route the gross overpayments to the
medical insurers to go to the tax coffers instead. Is that so wrong? </
sarcasm>

I assure you that health care will double in cost with the government
involved. It seems that with more unemployeed, the more the government
comes up with programs to employee those people, productive or not. Its
wellfare.

Robatoy wrote:
> On Mar 25, 9:44 am, Tim Daneliuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 3/25/2010 12:05 AM, LDosser wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Tim Daneliuk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On 3/24/2010 9:55 PM, LDosser wrote:
>>>>> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> LDosser wrote:
>>>>>>> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> Those legislators who have decided to govern against the will of
>>>>>>>>> the people (anywhere from 60 to 80% opposition depending upon the
>>>>>>>>> poll) have sown the wind. They can expect to reap the whirlwind
>>>>>>>>> come November.
>>>>>>>> Depends on how many fake voter registrations ACORN can get going so
>>>>>>>> the votes don't exceed the number of registered voters., and if the
>>>>>>>> socialist bastards can get the illegal alien vote legalized... well,
>>>>>>>> it's over.
>>>>>>> ACORN is Folding.
>>>>>> I heard today Obama has reopened the taxpayers money drain into ACORNS
>>>>>> pockets. There is no way the socialist democratic party will let
>>>>>> ACORN die since ACORN is 100% socialist democrat supporter, and best
>>>>>> of all gets taxpayer money to fund its dirty work. Even if the name
>>>>>> changes, it is still ACORN, with it's several hundred corrupt fronts.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jack
>>>>>> Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
>>>>>> http://jbstein.com
>>>>> It really is FOLDING.
>>>> But the same people will show up in other venues, peddling their
>>>> political
>>>> malignancies, and sponging off the working folk to pay for it. The name
>>>> and structure of the organization is immaterial ...
>>> Smaller bugs are easier to crush.
>> I don't know that the replacement will be smaller. ACORN was built on
>> a Communist cell model with lots of smaller interlocking agencies,
>
> Like The US Gov't and the military?
>

The US gov bureaucracy - yes. The US military - no, it's a hierarchical
organization.

> > And if the government can make us buy insurance, what's next? =A0Bail o=
ut
> > the auto industry by compelling everyone to buy an American car, whethe=
r
> > they can afford one or not and regardless of whether they actually want
> > or need a car?
>
> What do you think "cash for clunkers" was all about?


I know a number of people who bought FOREIGN cars during this program
and benefited. If it was specifically for the American automobile
industry, then it was worded incorrectly and there were unintended
consequences. There will be thousands of unintended consequences
because of this health care bill. First and foremost is the debt we
are going to incur in a time of recession when money is tight all
over. Sounds like a great time to start such a program.

Oh, and how does something that will create almost a trillion dollars
in debt SAVE us 100-200 billion? Huh? It isn't going to save squat
but what it WILL do is raise the cost of all the products and services
in this country and will push us further down the global economic
scale.

On Mar 25, 3:40=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
> > =A0Yep, it's working great in Great Britain, isn't it? =A0Canada is
> > headed the same direction. =A0Right now it's wait times, rationing will
> > come next. Problem with socialism it that you eventually run out of
> > other peoples' money.
>
> Heh! According to my GE rep, there are more MRI machines in Seattle than =
in
> all of Canada. According to one set of numbers, there are 222 MRI machine=
s
> in Canada. There are 163 hospitals in my town, almost all have at least o=
ne
> MRI machine and the larger more than one. My town also has 55 private
> imaging centers, each with up to four MRI machines. Many - I'd guess a
> hundred or more - physicians have their own MRI machine. So, then, there =
are
> probably 3-500 MRI machines in my little burg.
>
> In my own case, I twisted my knee quite badly. Got in to see my internist
> that afternoon. He doped me up with some pain killers and he arranged for=
an
> MRI the next morning. By noon the next day the result was in.
>
> In Canada, waits far exceeding 24 hours are the norm. Twenty-four WEEKS i=
s
> more common.

My wife, Angela, runs the Heart & Stroke Prevention unit at our MRI-
equipped local hospital. There are 8 MRI's within 45 mins to an hour
from here. She has had emerg referrals handled by the local MRI in 20
minutes. Of the 4 doctors attached to her unit, 1 is always on call.

THAT, Bub, is the hard-core reality of medical care in this county of
100,000 people. Nobody gets turned away, no billing.
Some local doctors are actively seeking patients to flesh out new
practices. So, your information, Bub, is incorrect.

On Mar 22, 11:47=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Liberals ... just as long as it's not their money!
>
Come on now Karl, the Libtards don't have an exclusive on that.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:30:02 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If this holds up the "little guy" takes it in the ass. He's required to
>buy something he can't afford or be fined an amount that he can't afford.
>
>And if the government can make us buy insurance, what's next? Bail out
>the auto industry by compelling everyone to buy an American car, whether
>they can afford one or not and regardless of whether they actually want
>or need a car?

Holy Cow! You and I agree on this one.

On Mar 22, 11:24=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 3/22/10 8:34 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 3/22/2010 8:25 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> >> "Dave Balderstone" wrote:
>
> >>> It seems to me that both "sides" in this should be outraged, not at
> >>> the
> >>> legislation itself, but rather at the manner it has been rammed down
> >>> your throats.
> >> ----------------------------------------------
> >> If only we could turn back the hands of time and become flies on the
> >> wall to listen in on the process when the income tax laws were enacted
> >> almost 100 years ago.
>
> >> I'll bet it was much the same as the health care debate, and the
> >> country has somehow survived.
>
> > Yeah, and Germany survived Hitler.
>
> > "The country survived" is far too low a goal.
>
> I calll Godwin`s Law, this thread is over.
>
> --
> Froz...
>
> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

By golly, me thinks you are correct, sir. We've been Godwinned.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:09:29 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Some of the major sea changes in my life.
>
>VE Day was big, but VJ Day was bigger since it truly marked the end of
>WWII.
>
>My graduation from college, a dream my father had but didn't live to
>see.
>
>Enactment of the Civil Rights Act.
>
>The passage of Medicare.
>
>The birth of my children.
>
>The end of the Viet Nam conflict
>
>Today marks the latest major sea change in my life. The little guy won
>a big one today with the passage of health care.
>
>I'm sure the law of unattended consequences will apply, but the bus
>has left the station, so hang on and enjoy the ride.
>
>
>Lew

I got this email tonight and it pretty much says how I feel about this
"Sea Change" that you think is so wonderful.


"I'm 63 and I'm Tired" by Robert A. Hall

I'm 63. Except for one semester in college when jobs were scarce and
a six-month period when I was between jobs, but job-hunting every day,
I've worked, hard, since I was 18. Despite some health challenges, I
still put in 50-hour weeks, and haven't called in sick in seven or
eight years. I make a good salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my
income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, there's no
retirement in sight, and I'm tired. Very tired.
I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people
who don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government
will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to
people too lazy to earn it.

I'm tired of being told that I have to pay more taxes to "keep people
in their homes." Sure, if they lost their jobs or got sick, I'm
willing to help. But if they bought McMansions at three times the
price of our paid-off, $250,000 condo, on one-third of my salary, then
let the left-wing Congress-critters who passed Fannie and Freddie and
the Community Reinvestment Act that created the bubble help them with
their own money.

I'm tired of being told how bad America is by left-wing millionaires
like Michael Moore, George Soros and Hollywood Entertainers who live
in luxury because of the opportunities America offers. In thirty
years, if they get their way, the United States will have the economy
of Zimbabwe , the freedom of the press of China , the crime and
violence of Mexico , the tolerance for Christian people of Iran ,
and the freedom of speech of Venezuela .

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when
every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their
sisters, wives and daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims
rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and
Jews because they aren't "believers"; of Muslims burning schools for
girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for
"adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in
the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and Shari'a law tells them to.
I'm tired of being told that "race doesn't matter" in the post-racial
world of Obama, when it's all that matters in affirmative action jobs,
lower college admission and graduation standards for minorities
(harming them the most), government contract set-asides, tolerance for
the ghetto culture of violence and fatherless children that hurts
minorities more than anyone, and in the appointment of U.S. Senators
from Illinois.

I think it's very cool that we have a black president and that a black
child is doing her homework at the desk where Lincoln wrote the
Emancipation Proclamation. I just wish the black president was Condi
Rice, or someone who believes more in freedom and the individual and
less arrogantly of an all-knowing government.
I'm tired of a news media that thinks Bush's fund raising and
inaugural expenses were obscene, but that think Obama's, at triple the
cost, were wonderful; that thinks Bush exercising daily was a waste of
presidential time, but Obama exercising is a great example for the
public to control weight and stress; that picked over every line of
Bush's military records, but never demanded that Kerry release his;
that slammed Palin, with two years as governor, for being too
inexperienced for VP, but touted Obama with three years as senator as
potentially the best president ever. Wonder why people are dropping
their subscriptions or switching to Fox News? Get a clue. I didn't
vote for Bush in 2000, but the media and Kerry drove me to his camp in
2004.

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we
must let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and madrassa
Islamic schools to preach hate in America , while no American group
is allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi
Arabia to teach love and tolerance.

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight
global warming, which no one is allowed to debate. My wife and I live
in a two-bedroom apartment and carpool together five miles to our
jobs. We also own a three-bedroom condo where our daughter and
granddaughter live. Our carbon footprint is about 5% of Al Gore's, and
if you're greener than Gore, you're green enough.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must
help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a
giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder
up their noses while they tried to fight it off? I don't think Gay
people choose to be Gay, but I damn sure think druggies chose to take
drugs. And I'm tired of harassment from cool people treating me like a
freak when I tell them I never tried marijuana.

I'm tired of illegal aliens being called "undocumented workers,"
especially the ones who aren't working, but are living on welfare or
crime. What's next? Calling drug dealers, "Undocumented Pharmacists"?
And, no, I'm not against Hispanics. Most of them are Catholic, and
it's been a few hundred years since Catholics wanted to kill me for my
religion. I'm willing to fast track for citizenship any Hispanic
person, who can speak English, doesn't have a criminal record and who
is self-supporting without family on welfare, or who serves honorably
for three years in our military.... Those are the citizens we need.

I'm tired of latte liberals and journalists, who would never wear the
uniform of the Republic themselves, or let their
entitlement-handicapped kids near a recruiting station, trashing our
military. They and their kids can sit at home, never having to make
split-second decisions under life and death circumstances, and bad
mouth better people than themselves. Do bad things happen in war? You
bet. Do our troops sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does this compare with
the atrocities that were the policy of our enemies for the last fifty
years and still are? Not even close. So here's the deal. I'll let
myself be subjected to all the humiliation and abuse that was heaped
on terrorists at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, and the critics can let
themselves be subject to captivity by the Muslims, who tortured and
beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and
murdered Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims
who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in
Iraq, or the Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in
Indonesia, because the girls were Christian. Then we'll compare notes.
British and American soldiers are the only troops in history that
civilians came to for help and handouts, instead of hiding from in
fear.

I'm tired of people telling me that their party has a corner on virtue
and the other party has a corner on corruption. Read the papers; bums
are bipartisan. And I'm tired of people telling me we need
bipartisanship. I live in Illinois , where the "Illinois Combine" of
Democrats has worked to loot the public for years. Not to mention the
tax cheats in Obama's cabinet.

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of
both parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or
youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was
getting caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich
or poor.

Speaking of poor, I'm tired of hearing people with air-conditioned
homes, color TVs and two cars called poor. The majority of Americans
didn't have that in 1970, but we didn't know we were "poor." The
poverty pimps have to keep changing the definition of poor to keep the
dollars flowing.

I'm real tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives
and actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or
discrimination or big-whatever for their problems.

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm
not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just
sorry for my granddaughter.

Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in
the Massachusetts State Senate.

Gordon Shumway

Our Constitution needs to be used less as a shield
for the guilty and more as a sword for the victim.

Jack Stein wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>> On 2010-03-23 13:18:50 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]> said:
>>
>>> death of robust US medical research and development
>>
>> One hell of a lot more is spent on marketing and intellectual
>> property protection than R&D. And don't even get me started on
>> ag-chem and GM. Monsanto, for one, is truly evil.
>
> And socialists from the world over slither into the US with pockets
> full of money for the great marketing and copyright laws of the
> capitalist pigs, right?

Yes. Our Constitution specifically encourages monopolies and intellectual
property exclusivity.

Sometimes we all need a reminder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MC37aIRX5c
What the real cost and levels of commitment are.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Some of the major sea changes in my life.
>
> VE Day was big, but VJ Day was bigger since it truly marked the end of
> WWII.
>
> My graduation from college, a dream my father had but didn't live to see.
>
> Enactment of the Civil Rights Act.
>
> The passage of Medicare.
>
> The birth of my children.
>
> The end of the Viet Nam conflict
>
> Today marks the latest major sea change in my life. The little guy won a
> big one today with the passage of health care.
>
> I'm sure the law of unattended consequences will apply, but the bus has
> left the station, so hang on and enjoy the ride.
>
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
>

"Dave Balderstone" wrote:

> It seems to me that both "sides" in this should be outraged, not at
> the
> legislation itself, but rather at the manner it has been rammed down
> your throats.
----------------------------------------------
If only we could turn back the hands of time and become flies on the
wall to listen in on the process when the income tax laws were enacted
almost 100 years ago.

I'll bet it was much the same as the health care debate, and the
country has somehow survived.

Lew

"Gordon Shumway" wrote:

> I got this email tonight and it pretty much says how I feel about
> this
> "Sea Change" that you think is so wonderful.
<snip>

Gave you a chance to practice your "Cut_And_Paste" skills, I see.

Lew

"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> get Medicare.
>>>
>>>Idiot. Medicare is not for the indigent. In fact it is for the
>>>_wealthiest_ group.
>>
>> Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid. The
>> question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
>> through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
>> would.
>>
>> Isn't it funny how almost everybody in the US that is against
>> universal health care is currently protected by some sort of medical
>> plan? What about all those literally millions and millions of US
>> citizens that aren't covered by anything? They're your people and they
>> are part of what makes the US such a great nation. Don't they deserve
>> some sort of health protection.
>
> Illegal Aliens. They deserve a bus ride to the Mexican border.

Amen... twice before in our history, that's what they got. It's time for a
re-do!
>

It isn't prejudice, it's economics... 28 million (the last number I heard)
un employed Americans would then fill many of the vacancies they leave
behind. (Yeah, I know they'll do most any job, and some claim they do the
jobs whites won't do... but when times get hard and work scarce the whites
(and black, brown or yellow that are here LEGALLY will do what ever they
have to to eat!)
In fact our economy is largely based on their working for wages we wouldn't
tolerate... seems almost like slave labor (NOW you can break out the white
sheets.)
<snip>
> ------------------------------------
> A collection of comments from the bigots.
>
> Add the white sheets and you are in business.
>
> Lew
>
>
>

"CW" wrote:

> The terms "racist" and "bigot" have lost their meaning over time. At
> one time, those words meant something. As liberals attempted to find
> new ways of insulting people;the meaning changed to "someone who
> admits to recognizing someone's race". The meaning has now
> degenerated to being a common expletive with no connection to the
> original menage. In this thread, Lew has used it in that way twice.
--------------------------------------------
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her
own opinions and prejudices.

The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy,
irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.

-----------------------------------

Seems to cover it.



Lew

On 2010-03-22 22:01:18 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> said:

> This is not about supporting deadbeats and illegals, it's about the
> government ordering us to buy something that we don't want. Not taxing
> us and having it provided, but telling us you _must_ buy this product.

Show of hands, please. Who here does not already buy health insurance?

"J. Clarke" wrote:

> My point is that the Gestapo's razor wire could not keep people in a
> little tiny prison, let alone a whole country, hence the notion
> that "razor wire backed by an electric fence" will keep Mexicans out
> of the US is wishful thinking.
--------------------------------

Something on which we both can agree.

Lew

"Morris Dovey" wrote:

> Neener, neener - my fantasies are better than your fantasies! :)
>
> http://images.google.com/images?q=mexican%20actresses

I'm with Mooris.

Lew

"Morris Dovey" wrote:
----------------------------------
----------------------------------

Has this thread made forcast?

1,000 posts?

Lew

"Dave Balderstone" wrote:


> And that's an average. There are rural towns of several thousand
> people
> who have only one doctor, or none at all.
-------------------------------------------
There is a price for choosing to live in the boonies.

Everything has it's cost.

Lew

"J. Clarke" wrote:

> And you really think you're good Americans don't you.
---------------------------------------
Naw, they are just prejudiced and pathetic bigots.

Thinking is not part of the package.

Lew

On 2010-03-23 22:02:52 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> said:

> And suppose everyone here has it, or nobody here has it, or some of us
> have it and some of us don't, what of it? I'm sorry, but your poll has
> no relevance to the point in question.

My question does have relevence, without regard to
"mandated-whether-I-want-it-or-not."

Do you have health insurance?

Do you want health insurance?

IF you want health insurance, but DO NOT have it, why?

If you DO NOT want health insurance, why?

Health is probably more germane to the general population than having a
Unisaw. If the government were mandating the purchase of that item, I
would agree with you. And let's disregard the entire SawStop issue, as
that IS irrelevent to this question.

BTW, in my state, at least, you have to provide proof of financial
responsibilty (i.e., insurance) before you can license a car. If you're
driving without insurance, you'd better damn well pray you don't hit a
BMW driven by a lawyer.

Here's another tip for you: Don't bet against the house.

On 2010-03-23 13:18:50 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]> said:

> death of robust US medical research and development

One hell of a lot more is spent on marketing and intellectual property
protection than R&D. And don't even get me started on ag-chem and GM.
Monsanto, for one, is truly evil.

"Steve" wrote:
> One hell of a lot more is spent on marketing and intellectual
> property protection than R&D.
-------------------------------
Caught any of the trend in commercials on TV lately?
--------------------------------
> And don't even get me started on ag-chem and GM. Monsanto, for one,
> is truly evil.

-------------------------------------

Understand the "Seed Police" have become quite zealous.

Lew

"J. Clarke" wrote:

> Which has what to do with the legality of the Congress ordering
> people to buy insurance?
--------------------------------------

It's pretty simple.

Government has broad powers when it comes to enacting legislation in
the USA.

You want to drive on the public roads, provide proof of liability
insurance.

As of yesterday, want to live in the USA, provide proof of health
insurance with the exception that your state of residence can opt out
of the program.

There will be a few states that try that bluff, most will fold when
push comes to shove..

In the mean time, open wide and swallow your medicine.

It's good for you<G>.

Lew

On 2010-03-25 15:40:03 -0400, "Phil Anderson" <[email protected]> said:

> How is that your business?

Strictly speaking, it's not. I am, however, curious as to the reasons
for objection to mandatory insurance. And sorry, I do not believe these
great altruists really give a good god damn about freedom and liberty
-- truth be told, they're pissed about another tax, not that they
object to or cannot afford insurance.

Several years ago, I worked with several members of the John Birch
Society. Two of these guys were scared shitless of the world around
them. That's why they were members -- they felt it gave them a defense
against shadows.

The third guy was fearless -- he was a Bircher because these principles
were his and this was his way to challenge the world, to not back down.

Guess which man I respected, though I did not share his views?

On 2010-03-25 01:26:15 -0400, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> said:

> (raises hand)
> I can't afford it now and sure won't be able to afford Obamacare.

That's an honest response. Thank you, sir.

On 2010-03-24 23:23:03 -0400, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> said:

> Understand the "Seed Police" have become quite zealous.

Not just for cross-pollianted seed either. Put down that heirloom
tomato and come out with your hands up!

On 2010-03-25 17:30:52 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]> said:

> And socialists from the world over slither into the US with pockets
> full of money for the great marketing and copyright laws of the
> capitalist pigs, right?

We don' need no steenkin' Socialists, we've got Disney!

On 2010-03-23 16:48:02 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]> said:

Jack
Somewhere In Kenya, a Village is Missing it's IDIOT!

Hey, Jack -- just what is your ethnicity? I want to be certain my
forthcoming smear of you is accurate.

On 2010-03-24 13:35:02 -0400, Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> said:

> "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of
> entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be easier to
> limit and undo the follies of an Obama Presidency than to restore the
> necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate
> willing to have such a man for their President.
> “The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who
> is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools
> should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him
> their prince.
> “The republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a
> fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those
> who made him their president."
> -- Author Unknown

Straight outta the Teabagger Catechism.

On 2010-03-22 23:28:29 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]> said:

> By golly, me thinks you are correct, sir. We've been Godwinned.

That happened at the first advocation of Gestapo and razor wire...
amazing that anyone would espouse practices of a despised former enemy.

Gordon Shumway:

>> -- Author Unknown
----------------------------------
True original thought.

---------------------------------------
Steve wrote:

> Straight outta the Teabagger Catechism.
-------------------------------

Is that where he found that.

Lew

"J. Clarke" wrote:

> Altruism be damned, we don't like the government poking its nose in
> our business.
----------------------------
Liking it is not a requirement, when the majority well being is
involved.

Lew

"Mark & Juanita" wrote
>
> In addition, China is also deliberately pushing a population reduction
> policy as well with their one-child policy. Due to the culture in that
> country that places a high value on boys and very little on girls, the
> desire for a son has led to widespread abortion and even infanticide. The
> other side effect of this is that they have a lopsided gender-gap skewed
> toward males. This is going to create very interesting problems in the
> not
> very distant future.
>
China is already importing females as wives for its horny young male
population. I wonder how that is going to work out in the long term? And
what is that going to do to the gender balance where the girls are coming
from?

Also, what is the effect going to be on society with such a surplus of young
males. All that fustrated testosterone is going to need an outlet of some
kind.

<snippage>
>
>> ACORN FOLDED. Just this week.
>
> This shows what a few stupid people can do to an otherwise good
> organization. The groaning old party should take a lesson and do
> something
> about teapartiers.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han

If you consider that organization good, there is no hope for you... your
brainwashing is dried and folded!
As to Tea Baggers (count me in!) they may well be the lever that gets power
back to our Constitution and our Republic back!
Yours in Constitutional Patriotism,
Tom

On 2010-03-29 22:35:10 -0400, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> said:

> Oh, I've always done that, too. And I find doctors intelligent, just
> not really caring or sharing. Most seem quite hurried (their office
> manglers overbook them on purpose, I think) distracted, and unhappy.

This was clipped from another mail list I follow closely. I think she's
got a lot to say (and from the font lines), beginning with the harried
doc:

> "... I am a Nurse Practitioner (for >25 years) who now works in a
> general practice. There are fewer and fewer independent family practice
> Docs left because the reimbursement from the Insurance companies is so
> poor. Apparently if you do a procedure in a specialty you are
> reimbursed much much more (of course, this also encourages unnecessary
> procedures).  For instance, a patient who comes into a general practice
> office with a migraine headache, gets their BP and urine checked at
> minimum, they are kept in a dark room and given an injection of torodol
> or perhaps a different medication.  They are monitored for about 30
> minutes and then allowed to leave, if pain relief is apparent and vital
> signs are stable. For this we charge $20, I think a reasonable charge.
> However all insurance companies reimburse us 39-40 cents...that is all.
>  It costs us more than that for the syringe, needle, alcohol etc.  Not
> to mention the medication, room the pt occupies, nurses time, urine
> test, bp cuff that was used etc.
>
> "To run a single provider office a physician must clear at least $250
> an hour in order to pay the overhead (if they are keeping the overhead
> down).  If the insurance reimburse about $150, at most, for a one hour
> visit, it is impossible for the physician to make it.  That is why the
> family practice, general practitioner's are either joining with bigger
> practices or retiring early.   Yes, the debt of medical school is great
> but so is the debt for law school, dental school and even graduate
> school. Many medical school loans are forgiven with service in rural
> areas, and now the loans have a ceiling that if one has paid for x
> number of years and not missed a payment, the remainder is forgiven.
>
> "So, in my opinion the cost of education is not the problem because
> there are ways to deal with this.  New med students are not encouraged
> to go into general practice due to the reimbursements, instead they
> want to specialize so they can earn a decent living.  Another statistic
> is that a Family Practice Doc need to see 30 patients daily in order to
> earn $65,000.   That is 1 patient every 10 minutes all day long...and a
> TON of work after the day is over, to call in prescriptions, answer
> phone calls, go thru all the labs and xray reports that came in that
> day,  write letters to insurance companies to rationalize why certain
> diagnostic tests and certain labs are necessary for this patient at
> this time.  Many GP's are in the office still at 9 or 10 at night
> finishing their day.
>
> "The insurance companies are "for profit" , stockholder driven...but
> the US Government is not. One insurance company CEO makes more money
> than the President or for that matter probably more than many senators
> or congressman put together. The  health care system as it is today is
> broken and if something is not done, America will no longer have
> General Practice Docs or Primary Care Nurse Practitioners. Patients
> needing GP's will go to CVS or Walgreens clinics. This may explain why
> the AMA wants the government health care plan."

On Mar 23, 1:44=A0pm, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > On Mar 22, 5:23 pm, vonKevin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> You be sure & let me know when you feel the need to go see a Cardiac
> >> Surgeon who gets paid the same as the moron flipping burgers down at
> >> McFood, Comrade.
> > Sounds to me you already have been misdiagnosed at the mental health
> > clinic.
>
> Sounds like a typical Robocop bullshit attack.
>
> > NOBODY is denying anybody the right to upgrade their basic health
> > package.
>
> What sort of free government health care can you Canuks upgrade if you
> have a pocketful of cash? =A0Slithering down to the US for the worlds bes=
t
> health care doesn't count as that will soon be as fucked up as yours.
>
> > Your premise is so fucked as to be laughable, Kevin in Indy.
>
> You laugh at the dumbest things.
>
> > But I will tell you something, that moron flipping burgers is likely
> > to have a better moral outlook than your bigoted version thereof.
>
> And this is based on what, your delusions of grandeur?
>
> > You, sir, are an asshole.
>
> Well said Robocop. =A0Perhaps if he chooses to make you look even more
> foolish, he will progress to "douche nozzle"
>
> > When you are capable of rational thought, please come visit again.
>
> More vitriolic drivel.
>
> > In
> > the meantime, the burger flipper probably has more right to his/her
> > paycheck than you do to yours.
>
> Probably, but you know this how? =A0I think you just like talking out of
> your ass...
>
> --
> Jack
> The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Mon=
ey!
>
> If You Think Health Care is Expensive now, Wait Until it's FREE!http://jb=
stein.com

Step away from that bottle, Jack. You are making a fool out of
yourself.

On Mar 22, 11:43=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Some of the major sea changes in my life.
>
> > VE Day was big, but VJ Day was bigger since it truly marked the end of
> > WWII.
>
> > My graduation from college, a dream my father had but didn't live to se=
e.
>
> > Enactment of the Civil Rights Act.
>
> > The passage of Medicare.
>
> > The birth of my children.
>
> > The end of the Viet Nam conflict
>
> > Today marks the latest major sea change in my life. The little guy won =
a
> > big one today with the passage of health care.
>
> > I'm sure the law of unattended consequences will apply, but the bus has
> > left the station, so hang on and enjoy the ride.
>
> I am confused,, so many here are sooooo against how SawStop was trying to
> force its product on to us and this is not a problem?

All they're trying to do is to route the gross overpayments to the
medical insurers to go to the tax coffers instead. Is that so wrong? </
sarcasm>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:55:57 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>The socialist bastards that took over the democratic party have just
>reduced US medical to the arm pits of England and Canada, and the ONLY
>reason is to empower the central government to enslave us. It has
>NOTHING to do with free medical care.

Not surprisingly, you're one of the most practiced whiners of all.
How's that working out for you Jack-ass?

On 3/22/2010 3:09 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

> Today marks the latest major sea change in my life. The little guy won
> a big one today with the passage of health care.

Yep, a "health care bill" that requires 16,000 new IRS agents instead of
doctors is a "major sea change" alright.

Sounds more like the sheeple are due for another fleecing.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT), busbus <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Listen, you are getting unreasonable. You are more or less saying
>that people who suck money out of the system and never give back do
>not exist or only make up a small fraction of our society.

I didn't even come close to saying that they didn't exist. What I was
saying was that corporate greed and the scramble for profit outdo the
cost of welfare bums by an immense margin.

How many times have you read about a company being bailed out while at
the same time, their senior staff have been paid a golden handshake of
some type numbering in the millions of dollars?

How many times has the same thing happened when a company goes into
bankruptcy, senior staff get their "performance" bonuses and thousands
are laid off without a cent?

Hell, it happens up here in Canada too. Look at Nortel. Huge
performance bonuses get paid out, the company closes it's doors and
thousands are out on their butt with no job and less chance of finding
one.

Explain to me how all these things are allowed to happen and then the
logic of blaming it all on welfare cheats. Then maybe we can attempt
some type of logical conversation.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:33:18 -0700, the infamous "LDosser"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:54:03 -0700, the infamous "LDosser"
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> Illegal Aliens. They deserve a bus ride to the Mexican border.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's been tried. They generally beat the bus back.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Razor wire backed by an electric fence - the kind the Gestapo used.
>>
>> My favorite fantasy is a vaporizing laser system on both borders.
>> No fuss, no muss, no burial fees, no transportation fees, no legal
>> fees, just a big puff of smoke as you're instantly toasted. The perp's
>> minerals will enrich the ground they drop to.
>
>
>And the borders could serve as a weapons testing ground. I like it!

Ayup. We'll catch some ragheads on the north and wets on the south.
(Since Lew -already- called me a bigot, I thought I'd measure up. Crom
knows we don't want to make libtards feel bad.) <wink>

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> That is NOT what currently exists in the US since there are millions
> without ANY medical protection whatsoever.

Well, not quite Dave. There are people who have no health insurances
policies, but medical care (at least fundamental care) cannot be denied in
the US, regardless of ability to pay. That's why those who can pay, pay the
premiums they do - they have to cover the cost for those who can't. Not
ideal by any means, and not an argument to keep things this way, but medical
care is there for those who can't afford policies.

>
> You're right, people are not treated equally. But money and power are
> poor tools to differentiate equality. It's a travesty to even believe
> that. Thousands of your young, less affluent people go off in your
> armed services and are killed regularly. The rich and powerful sit
> back and benefit from this sacrifice. What exactly makes the rich and
> powerful more deserving of life? I'm kind of dumb so I'd appreciate
> if you explained that one to me.

The same thing that makes the rich and powerful more deserving the world
over - throughout time. It's not right, but it's universal. No need to
point that finger at the US.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:09:00 -0500, Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:53:52 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid. The
>>> question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
>>> through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
>>> would.
>>
>>Lying is a big deal. If you haven't taken care of yourself why should
>>you steal from me?
>
>I made a mistake between what two services were called and you're
>calling me a liar?

You are.

>Fine, I'm a liar for not being familiar enough with
>the US medical terminology and you're a natural born fucking asshole.
>Glad we got that settled.


>And, as far as stealing from you goes, 100% of the services and
>amenities you get are funded by the collective taxes of your country,
>so in effect you steal from everyone. Does that fit in with your
>screwed up logic?

No, you are proposing to take property from me for *your* exclusive benefit.
That is theft. You are a thief, as well as a liar.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> What do you think "cash for clunkers" was all about?
>

Getting the Obama stickers off the road?

--
Nonny

Our Congress and White House are like an
overflowing, fetid toilet. It's time to flush it, though
knowing it will soon refill with the same filth. We need
a radical change where the productive people again rule.

in 514587 20100322 233418 Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:23:17 -0400, vonKevin
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>So tell me - Are you saying that no one should be allowed to buy
>>better than the basic health care coverage, simply because there are
>>people who can't afford it?
>
>Feeble attempt at putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that there
>should be a basic level of medicine available to everybody who needs
>it no matter what wage they earn. After that, if someone wants
>something more than the basic standard then they're free to go buy it.
>AND, that is exactly the system that many countries operate under,
>including Canada. Should someone want additional aid not covered under
>the existing Canadian standard, then they can and often do head down
>to the US to buy it.

I just don't understand why Canadians should need to go to the USA.
Here in Britain we have the NHS but we also have private hospitals and
doctors for those that want to pay for them. Not so in Canada?

On Mar 23, 11:55=A0am, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> Upscale wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:23:35 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> get Medicare.
> >> Idiot. =A0Medicare is not for the indigent. =A0In fact it is for the
> >> _wealthiest_ group.
>
> > Big deal, so I made a mistake between Medicare and Medicaid.
>
> That's minor compared to the rest of your half-assed thoughts.
>
> The
>
> > question remains the same. How many of you assholes would happily go
> > through bankruptcy for health care? I can confidently say that no one
> > would.
>
> No one ever had to go bankrupt for great medical care in the US.
>
> > Isn't it funny how almost everybody in the US that is against
> > universal health care is currently protected by some sort of medical
> > plan?
>
> Ain't it funny that everyone enjoying the best health care on earth has
> been sharing that care with the few that can't enjoy it on their own dime=
?
>
> > What about all those literally millions and millions of US
> > citizens that aren't covered by anything? They're your people and they
> > are part of what makes the US such a great nation. Don't they deserve
> > some sort of health protection.
>
> Not ONE person in the US has not been eligible for medical care in the
> past. =A0 The US has free medical for the indigent. =A0Not one indigent
> person in the US cannot get Medicade.
>
> If you were not indigent, but had no medical insurance, they had the
> spend down medical program. =A0That meant if you made $5,000 a month, and
> had medical bill for say $10,000 in a month, you could get Medicade.
> Even if you were a millionaire, =A0you could still get Medicade if the
> monthly expense =A0minus your monthly income was less the poverty level
> for income. =A0This virtually made every single US citizen in need
> eligible for free medical care, based on need.
>
> > I once stated that the most important human right was to be healthy.
>
> Yeah, how's that working for you?
>
> > Mill jumped in and stated that it was freedom. The fact is that
> > illness and especially chronic illness without health care is a loss
> > of freedom that the healthy can never possibly comprehend.
>
> Up your ass. =A0In the US, everyone had medical care available to them,
> and not just medical care, but the best medical care on earth, period.
> This was made available by very healthy, very rich Americans.
>
> The socialist bastards that took over the democratic party have just
> reduced US medical to the arm pits of England and Canada, and the ONLY
> reason is to empower the central government to enslave us. =A0It has
> NOTHING to do with free medical care.
>
> --
> Jack
> Obama Care...Freedom not Included!http://jbstein.com


Well said, Jack.

And the biggest problem that nobody is addressing is the fact that
NOTHING IS FREE!

Then liberals will say that is is only FAIR. We all want to be fair,
but what does fair mean?

Suppose four guys go out to lunch, and split the check four ways. Is
that fair? Suppose one had a tuna sandwich, and another had lobster?
Then maybe it would be fair to say that each pays for what he eats?
But suppose one of the guys makes $100,000 a year and the others make
only $50,000. Would it be fair to say the one who makes the big bucks
should pay twice what the others do, regardless of what he eats,
because he makes more? You probably wouldn=B4t think it was "fair" to
ask your friend to pay for your meal, though an increasing voting bloc
feels it is very fair to ask other people to pay for things they want.

Let=B4s take another example. Suppose 100 adults with jobs live on your
street. And you get together and decide that it would be wonderful if
you had a new playground that would cost about $10,000. So you vote
and the new playground wins.

Then you have to vote how much each person should chip in to buy the
playground, and the vote goes like this:

- Five of the adults are charged a total of $6,000 for the playground
everyone will use.

- Another 45 of the adults have to get together and chip in an
additional $3,700.

- And the last 50 adults have to pool their resources and come up
with $300 between them.

Is that fair? (That was the US tax code in 2006.)

Well, President Obama and his Social Democrat Party said no way is
that fair.

Those five people have to come up with a lot more money than just
$6,000, so the 45 pay less, and the 50 who were paying $300 now pay
nothing.

Under that help-the-rich guy George Bush and the Republicans in 2006,
5% of Americans=97those with incomes over $153,000, paid 60% of the
taxes, while the bottom 50% of Americans paid 3%. (IRS figures.)

Once more than 50% of the public pay nothing, what is to stop them
from voting to take everything from those who pay more?

And all in the name of being fair.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:13:44 -0500, Upscale <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 07:07:59 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Choices have consequences. One who chooses a dissolute life-style - or even
>>one who failed to provide for his own contingencies - must face the harvest
>>of that which he sowed.
>
>And, that is what has come to pass. The US people made a choice on a
>particular leader and that leader has made a choice on healthcare. Cry
>in your soup as much as you want, but deal with it instead of doing
>all this shrill whining and running around that the sky is falling.

"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of
entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be easier to
limit and undo the follies of an Obama Presidency than to restore the
necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate
willing to have such a man for their President.

“The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who
is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools
should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him
their prince.

“The republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a
fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those
who made him their president."

-- Author Unknown