"Brian Elfert"> wrote
> "Don"> writes:
>>drum head, tightens right up. My next house will be built with steel studs
>>because I like the consistency of the sizing and continuity of the
>>quality.
>>Those two things are not possible with wood studs.
>
> Metal studs for a house would be really expensive. A 20 gauge stud is
> about $6 each and load bearing walls might need them every 12" instead of
> 16" with wood.
>
> They make finger jointed wood studs that are extremely consistent in size.
> I have no idea if they cost less than 20 gauge steel studs or not.
>
> I would use metal for a house in a heartbeat if it was similiar in price
> and I could find a carpenter who has done it before on a house.
The largest builder in our area (will build over 2000 tract homes throughout
the county in 2005 www.1st-home.com ) uses steel studs exclusively.
I doubt they're doing that because the studs are expensive.
In a reasonable home, using clear span roof trusses, there is no reason to
have internal load bearing walls.
Around here most of the homes have exterior walls that are CBS, Concrete
Block w/ Stucco.
I built a new home 3 years ago with wood studs and the workmanship of the
carpenters and the quality of the wood studs were almost unacceptable.
I won't make that mistake again, no matter the cost.
Paralam makes a quality engineered wood stud but the price is on the moon.
I spec them all the time on the custom island homes I design, where cost
isn't an issue.
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:03:38 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Richard Clements <[email protected]> writes:
>> I can't imagine steel studs are stronger than wood unless you get into 20
>> gauge or heavier. Do they even make load bearing walls from steel studs
>> like they do with wood studs?
>
>Absolutely, Builders in Houston use them to build houses.
Steel studs are common in commercial construction. I haven't seen a
wood stud in a phone building for at least 15-20 years, regardless if
the wall carries a load. Lots of these walls have counters, cabinets,
etc... mounted to them. A lot of this stuff is installed as an
afterthought, so the wall was not specially designed to carry the
load.
Barry
Brian,
I am a carpenter and was doing the exact same thing at Montreal's City Hall.
We were building a new kitchen for the blue collar works and commercial code
states that metal studs are to be used because of fire code. So here is what
I did. Metal studs are in a shape of a U and always face the same direction.
Where you plan to put your cabinets, you need to add a piece of stud about
12" long in the opposite direction. So that the 12" stud will face the 8'
stud(the U's will face eachother). Since the studs are 16" on center...you
can cut a piece of 3/4" plywood 12"x15-1/2". Use 3/4" drywll screws. Do not
use the self-tapping kind(silver). They will just burn the wood and will
spin. But since you are turning a semi to an RV...if it will be on the road,
I would use 2"x6" pine instead of plywood between the studs. It's cheap and
it will hold your cabinets without a glitch.
Good luck,
Patrick
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using
>>smaller
>>studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I
>
> 2x2s would probably work as that is what wood framed RVs are generally
> built from. The only reason for thicker studs would be for insulation.
> They make special electrical boxes for RVs that fit in a 2x2 wall.
>
>>would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets.
>>All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using
>>drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you
>>will
>
> Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans
> to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to
> use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets.
>
> Brian Elfert
Yep. Done about a zillion linear feet of blocking that way (at least
it seems that much. Blocking is _boring_ work). Not only can you
drive a screw anywhere you want, but you know the screw won't pull out.
And, the load is distributed along the whole wall. Also, scrap 2x or
3/4 ply is abundant in pieces 15 7/8" long.
Regarding an earlier post, I think maybe the french cleat idea is maybe
not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and whatnot.
Hope it helps.
-Phil Crow
lgb wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>>
>> Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs
>> would make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will
>> go into
>> the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds?
>>
> How about wood studs only where the cabinets need to screw in?
>
> When in doubt,
> Build it stout!
>
I think steel is stronger, isn't it? when I worked Demo for a summer, the
steel walls where a lot harder to tear down. just one steel stud will flex
and bend etc. be get two or more secured and there very secure, could be
wrong, just what I remebered
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2005 18:10:22 -0800, the inscrutable
> [email protected] spake:
>not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and
whatnot.
>
> Simple fix: Use upper and lower sets of cleats and affix with screws
> through the backs (into the bottom cleats) to hold them in place.
>
>
> ========================================================
> TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
> http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
> ==========================
ah HAH! So _that's_ why we keep you around! <g>
-Phil Crow
"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to
>hang.
>Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a
>significant problem?
Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel.
I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs
to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring
and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls.
Brian Elfert
"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using smaller
>studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I
2x2s would probably work as that is what wood framed RVs are generally
built from. The only reason for thicker studs would be for insulation.
They make special electrical boxes for RVs that fit in a 2x2 wall.
>would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets.
>All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using
>drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you will
Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans
to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to
use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets.
Brian Elfert
"Leon" <[email protected]> writes:
>Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs would
>make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will go into
>the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds?
I'm not sure I want to go with metal studs yet. I figured I needed to be
sure I could attach my cabinets before choosing metal or wood studs.
Wood studs would be less expensive but heavier.
Brian Elfert
"George" <george@least> writes:
>> Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans
>> to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to
>> use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets.
>>
>You're thinking of drywall, and you won't use wooden studs because of the
>weight?
>This does not compute.
Opps. Should say I have NO plans to use drywall.
Brian Elfert
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>
> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>
> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>
> Brian Elfert
I would add some 2x4 backing to the inside of the metal stud where the
cabinets will hang. Then when you hang the cabinets the screws will go
through the stud, into the 2x4's.
Greg
Richard Clements <[email protected]> writes:
>I think steel is stronger, isn't it? when I worked Demo for a summer, the
>steel walls where a lot harder to tear down. just one steel stud will flex
>and bend etc. be get two or more secured and there very secure, could be
>wrong, just what I remebered
I can't imagine steel studs are stronger than wood unless you get into 20
gauge or heavier. Do they even make load bearing walls from steel studs
like they do with wood studs?
The fact that steel studs flex so bad is probably a sign that the studs
are not very strong.
I don't need strong walls for my RV. I just need walls that can hold
wiring and insulation along with holding up cabinets.
Brian Elfert
Ba r r y <[email protected]> writes:
>Steel studs are common in commercial construction. I haven't seen a
>wood stud in a phone building for at least 15-20 years, regardless if
>the wall carries a load. Lots of these walls have counters, cabinets,
>etc... mounted to them. A lot of this stuff is installed as an
>afterthought, so the wall was not specially designed to carry the
>load.
I'm guessing commercial construction uses 20 gauge metal studs for load
bearing walls, not the 25 gauge metal studs they sell at all the home
improvement centers.
I was thinking about the 25 gauge studs when I was questioning if any used
them for load bearing walls.
Brian Elfert
Ba r r y <[email protected]> writes:
>Steel studs are common in commercial construction. I haven't seen a
>wood stud in a phone building for at least 15-20 years, regardless if
>the wall carries a load. Lots of these walls have counters, cabinets,
>etc... mounted to them. A lot of this stuff is installed as an
>afterthought, so the wall was not specially designed to carry the
>load.
I did some web searching on this a while back, and found a number
of people who claimed to be hanging cabinets from steelstuds with
no problems (I don't know what guage of steel they were using).
I assume the success rate would vary with the amount of weight
and the number of screws (and whether you're using screws
designed for steel studs). It seems to me there should be some
kind of rule of thumb for weight-per-screw. The screws seem to
grip pretty well.
Another possible strategy is to arrange things so that something
else takes the weight, and the studs just hold it upright.
The OP said his walls weren't up yet, so I'd certainly add wood
blocking wherever it might come in handy. For an RV, you also
have to consider dynamic loads. I like the idea of a french
cleat, with a peg that has to be removed before you can lift the
cabinet off the cleat.
"Don" <[email protected]> writes:
>drum head, tightens right up. My next house will be built with steel studs
>because I like the consistency of the sizing and continuity of the quality.
>Those two things are not possible with wood studs.
Metal studs for a house would be really expensive. A 20 gauge stud is
about $6 each and load bearing walls might need them every 12" instead of
16" with wood.
They make finger jointed wood studs that are extremely consistent in size.
I have no idea if they cost less than 20 gauge steel studs or not.
I would use metal for a house in a heartbeat if it was similiar in price
and I could find a carpenter who has done it before on a house.
Brian Elfert
Brian Elfert wrote:
> I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>
> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>
> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>
> Brian Elfert
Is the wall in the basement? If so then no - too much rust potential. I
would _guess_ at the same issue in a kitchen. Others may have different
opinions.
...Otherwise someone else can answer as I don't know. But if I were
making the wall I would install cross bracing where I was going to place
the wall and "make it work". Probably by making sure those studs had
"hangers".
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>
> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>
> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>
No, typically plywood is added between the studs & drywall for these
applications
Leon wrote:
>
> "Wes Stewart" <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is
> > this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs?
>
> Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be
> pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood.
What's the plywood attached to? :)
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>
> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>
> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>
> Brian Elfert
As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to
hang.
Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a
significant problem?
Dave
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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>>Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are
>>a
>>significant problem?
>
> Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel.
>
> I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs
> to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring
> and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls.
>
> Brian Elfert
Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using smaller
studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I
would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets.
All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using
drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you will
save a considerable amount of weight and be able to secure the cabinets
using a French cleat system. (French cleat - a board ripped in half at 45
deg. One half of the cleat attached to the wall and the other mating half
attached to the cabinet.)
Dave
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"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using
smaller
> >studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I
>
> 2x2s would probably work as that is what wood framed RVs are generally
> built from. The only reason for thicker studs would be for insulation.
> They make special electrical boxes for RVs that fit in a 2x2 wall.
>
> >would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets.
> >All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using
> >drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you
will
>
> Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans
> to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to
> use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets.
>
You're thinking of drywall, and you won't use wooden studs because of the
weight?
This does not compute.
"Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> 2x blocking is installed between the studs at the proper heights to act as
> *nailers* for the wall cabinets to be screwed to.
> Believe it or not the drywall adds a lot to the stability of the steel
stud
> wall. Without the drywall you can grab ahold of the studs and twist them
> every which way, but once the drywall has been screwed on it acts like a
> drum head, tightens right up. My next house will be built with steel studs
> because I like the consistency of the sizing and continuity of the
quality.
> Those two things are not possible with wood studs.
>
>
Yep, everyone here should recognize that the skin spreads and sustains a
load. Boats, cars, airplanes, all build on that principle.
That's why it's no longer a simple question of withdrawal force on a screw,
because the load has been spread by that infinite fender washer called a
wall skin to other screws, other studs.
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 05:18:59 GMT, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> scribbled:
>Brian Elfert wrote:
<snip>
>> I don't need strong walls for my RV. I just need walls that can hold
>> wiring and insulation along with holding up cabinets.
>
>Your solution has already been posted, Brian. Take your choice:
>Transition to wood studs where the cabinets will be hung or, and this I
>think is the winner, use the 2"x6" notched to backup the steel studs.
>
>As for the strength, the metal studs which I've seen installed used
>construction adhesive AND screws to fasten the wallboard. Think torsion
>box when that job's done.
Brian, the mention of torsion boxes gave me an idea that you might
consider. When I was rebuilding the front of my camper I ended up
creating a torsion box for the floor. (see:
http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=b1ge9v0jsftvlv84gkd5vqpvtf658rjacq%404ax.com
Essentially milled 1"X1" (real dimension, not 3/4") cedar on 1-foot
squares grid with 1/8" plywood glued on each side. It is more than
sufficient to hold up my weight (250lb) on a 4'X7' floor.
I don't know what the shear strength would be of this kind of
construction, but note that the cupboards on my camper (late 70's) are
screwed into a wall made with 3/4" lumber and they haven't moved
despite having been used mostly on very rough Yukon backroads. I'll
let you do the weight calculations to compare it with steel studs. You
might have to make the wall thicker for the lecktrical stuff.
Just an idea, but it brings the whole thing back to wooddorking.
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
Brian Elfert wrote:
> Richard Clements <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>I think steel is stronger, isn't it? when I worked Demo for a summer, the
>>steel walls where a lot harder to tear down. just one steel stud will flex
>>and bend etc. be get two or more secured and there very secure, could be
>>wrong, just what I remebered
>
>
> I can't imagine steel studs are stronger than wood unless you get into 20
> gauge or heavier. Do they even make load bearing walls from steel studs
> like they do with wood studs?
>
> The fact that steel studs flex so bad is probably a sign that the studs
> are not very strong.
>
> I don't need strong walls for my RV. I just need walls that can hold
> wiring and insulation along with holding up cabinets.
Your solution has already been posted, Brian. Take your choice:
Transition to wood studs where the cabinets will be hung or, and this I
think is the winner, use the 2"x6" notched to backup the steel studs.
As for the strength, the metal studs which I've seen installed used
construction adhesive AND screws to fasten the wallboard. Think torsion
box when that job's done. The weak point is sticking those screws
through that thin piece of metal and then subjecting it to the weight of
the cabinet trying to pull it out. If it was merely the shear force of
the cabinet trying to reach the floor you'd probably be okay but load
that cabinet up and have a door that swings wide, etc. and you introduce
other forces on that fastener which the steel stud may not hold all that
well.
Just out of curiosity, how big is this semi-trailer RV going to be?
contain? You just going to haul it some place (hunting area) and park it
or actually travel around pulling it with a tractor?
As others have said, it's an interesting project. Hopefully you'll post
some pictures as it progresses
"Ron Bean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Ba r r y <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>Steel studs are common in commercial construction. I haven't seen a
>>wood stud in a phone building for at least 15-20 years, regardless if
>>the wall carries a load. Lots of these walls have counters, cabinets,
>>etc... mounted to them. A lot of this stuff is installed as an
>>afterthought, so the wall was not specially designed to carry the
>>load.
>
> I did some web searching on this a while back, and found a number
> of people who claimed to be hanging cabinets from steelstuds with
> no problems (I don't know what guage of steel they were using).
>
> I assume the success rate would vary with the amount of weight
> and the number of screws (and whether you're using screws
> designed for steel studs). It seems to me there should be some
> kind of rule of thumb for weight-per-screw. The screws seem to
> grip pretty well.
>
> Another possible strategy is to arrange things so that something
> else takes the weight, and the studs just hold it upright.
>
> The OP said his walls weren't up yet, so I'd certainly add wood
> blocking wherever it might come in handy. For an RV, you also
> have to consider dynamic loads. I like the idea of a french
> cleat, with a peg that has to be removed before you can lift the
> cabinet off the cleat.
2x blocking is installed between the studs at the proper heights to act as
*nailers* for the wall cabinets to be screwed to.
Believe it or not the drywall adds a lot to the stability of the steel stud
wall. Without the drywall you can grab ahold of the studs and twist them
every which way, but once the drywall has been screwed on it acts like a
drum head, tightens right up. My next house will be built with steel studs
because I like the consistency of the sizing and continuity of the quality.
Those two things are not possible with wood studs.
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Richard Clements <[email protected]> writes:
>
Snip
> I can't imagine steel studs are stronger than wood unless you get into 20
> gauge or heavier. Do they even make load bearing walls from steel studs
> like they do with wood studs?
Absolutely, Builders in Houston use them to build houses.
>
> The fact that steel studs flex so bad is probably a sign that the studs
> are not very strong.
Like 2x4 studs, they need a covering like dry wall to become rigid.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
>
> Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs would
> make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will go into
> the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds?
>
How about wood studs only where the cabinets need to screw in?
When in doubt,
Build it stout!
--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description
The short answer is No, you can't just screw to the metal studs.
They're just too thin to provide much pull-out resistance.
However, with some wood blocking, this is standard construction for
office and schools. Both of these environments put much greater loads
and abuse on wall hung cabinets than you ever will. As one of the
previous replys stated, use a reversed piece of stud and wood blocking,
typically either plywood or 2X6. Cut a groove at each end on the face
to fit the little lip on the studs (the part that makes it a 'C' instead
of a 'U' shape) so the blocking fits up tight to the stud and doesn't
distort it. Screw through the metal stud into the blocking to secure
it. With plywood, screw on the face, with 2X6 you can screw through the
ends. If you have a lot to do, your local lumber can mill these up by
the pallet load for you. Put blocking continuously at the top and
bottom of the cabinets; you and your SWMBO could both hang on them and
they'll never come loose.
Brian Elfert wrote:
> I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>
> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>
> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>
> Brian Elfert
Awesome!
Show us some pictures when finished.
Putting some wood in the studs where cabinets will be makes sense.
Wilson
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to
>>hang.
>>Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are
>>a
>>significant problem?
>
> Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel.
>
> I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs
> to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring
> and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls.
>
> Brian Elfert
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to
>>hang.
>>Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are
>>a
>>significant problem?
>
> Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel.
>
> I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs
> to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring
> and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls.
Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs would
make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will go into
the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds?
"Wes Stewart" <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:39:36 GMT, "Leon"
>
> I was commenting on the comment that said that "plywood" would be an
> improvement. But this very same plywood screws into the very same
> studs, so I fail to see an advantage.
OK, steel studs are 3 sided. Think of the letter C. The Plywood is attached
behind the front face of the steel stud. The screw goes through the front
face of the steel stud and then into the plywood. The screw has the
thickness of the plywood to get its holding power. If the screw simply went
through the steel stud it would strip and pull out of the stud. Then the
cavbinet screws are screwed into the plywood.
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:59:00 -0000, Brian Elfert <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to
>>hang.
>>Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a
>>significant problem?
>
>Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel.
>
>I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs
>to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring
>and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls.
>
>Brian Elfert
consider using plywood instead of drywall for the sheet goods over the
studs. you'll save weight and add both strength and stiffness to the
structure. then you can get an attachment you can count on for the
cabinetry.
build the cabinets as light as you can. lauan ply is light for it's
strength, comes with a surface that is smooth enough for laminate but
will likely need some prep before paint.
"longshot" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
> >
> > I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> > sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
> >
> > Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
> >
> No, typically plywood is added between the studs & drywall for these
> applications
>
At work, they add the plywood or 1x whatevers after the rock.
Mark
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 02:06:49 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Wes Stewart" <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:39:36 GMT, "Leon"
>>
>> I was commenting on the comment that said that "plywood" would be an
>> improvement. But this very same plywood screws into the very same
>> studs, so I fail to see an advantage.
>
>OK, steel studs are 3 sided. Think of the letter C. The Plywood is attached
>behind the front face of the steel stud. The screw goes through the front
>face of the steel stud and then into the plywood. The screw has the
>thickness of the plywood to get its holding power. If the screw simply went
>through the steel stud it would strip and pull out of the stud. Then the
>cavbinet screws are screwed into the plywood.
Gotcha
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:39:36 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Wes Stewart" <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is
>> this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs?
>
>Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be
>pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood.
Where did this "2 or 3" of wood" suddenly come from?
I was commenting on the comment that said that "plywood" would be an
improvement. But this very same plywood screws into the very same
studs, so I fail to see an advantage.
Now if you're suggesting a 2 x 3 stud inside the metal studs for a
backup "nailer" then we are on the same page. That's what I would do.
Pretty much like is sometimes done for door and window openings.
>
On 25 Mar 2005 08:14:06 -0800, the inscrutable
[email protected] spake:
>
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On 24 Mar 2005 18:10:22 -0800, the inscrutable
>> [email protected] spake:
> >not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and
>whatnot.
>>
>> Simple fix: Use upper and lower sets of cleats and affix with screws
>> through the backs (into the bottom cleats) to hold them in place.
>ah HAH! So _that's_ why we keep you around! <g>
2nd alternative: Use french cleats upside down on the bottom row
so they make dovetails, then slide on the cabinets!
Send money, not praise. ;)
========================================================
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:26:11 -0000, Brian Elfert <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm guessing commercial construction uses 20 gauge metal studs for load
>bearing walls, not the 25 gauge metal studs they sell at all the home
>improvement centers.
I should also mention that some of these walls are studded 12" OC.
Barry
www.mcfeeys.com sells cabinet hanging screws for use with steel studs
"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>
> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>
> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>
> Brian Elfert
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:50:02 -0500, "longshot"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
>>
>> I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they
>> sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs.
>>
>> Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support?
>>
>No, typically plywood is added between the studs & drywall for these
>applications
Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is
this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs?
"Duane Bozarth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>>
>> "Wes Stewart" <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> >
>> > Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is
>> > this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs?
>>
>> Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be
>> pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood.
>
> What's the plywood attached to? :)
The plywood is on the back side of the front face of the stud. The screws
that hold the plywood go through the steel first and then into the plywood.
"Wes Stewart" <n7ws_@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is
> this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs?
Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be
pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood.
What we do for commercial jobs is have the GC provide 6"
wide heavy gage (gauge David) coil stock wherever we need in
wall blocking. This is screwed directly to the face of the
stud.. You could also use horizontal steel studs bay making
screw tabs on the ends.
Personally I like 2 X 6's. If your studs are 16" on center
cut the 2X material to 15 7/8"(ish) and notch (dado) the
face of one end to clear the break (wrap) in the steel
studs. Working from the notched end face screw the 2X in
place through the stud and into the face of the 2X. Screw
the other end through the stud and into the end of the 2X.
It's as easy as eating pie.
UA100
On 24 Mar 2005 18:10:22 -0800, the inscrutable
[email protected] spake:
>Yep. Done about a zillion linear feet of blocking that way (at least
>it seems that much. Blocking is _boring_ work). Not only can you
>drive a screw anywhere you want, but you know the screw won't pull out.
> And, the load is distributed along the whole wall. Also, scrap 2x or
>3/4 ply is abundant in pieces 15 7/8" long.
>Regarding an earlier post, I think maybe the french cleat idea is maybe
>not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and whatnot.
Simple fix: Use upper and lower sets of cleats and affix with screws
through the backs (into the bottom cleats) to hold them in place.
========================================================
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================
In article <[email protected]>, "longshot" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I think metal studs are only designed to carry a vertical load, by attaching
>the plywood , you are spreading that load out over a 4' by 8' span
>
And using more screws to attach it. While the weight of a cabinet might be
enough to pull four screws out of the metal studs, it will not pull four
properly-sized screws out of plywood, nor will it be enough to pull out, say,
two dozen screws holding the plywood to the studs. (Numbers picked out of the
air to illustrate the point. Direct relationship to reality should not be
assumed.)
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:26:11 -0000, Brian Elfert <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm guessing commercial construction uses 20 gauge metal studs for load
>>bearing walls, not the 25 gauge metal studs they sell at all the home
>>improvement centers.
>
> I should also mention that some of these walls are studded 12" OC.
There's lots of little tricks the framers use to make the whole thing
happen, studs on 12" centers is just one of them.
I have seen them rip a 2x4 and put it inside the steel stud to act as a
backer for supporting door jambs on the hinge side.
They can also nest 1 stud inside another to form a square O and they can
screw 2 studs together like this: ][.
Framing with steel is completely different than with wood, different tools,
different techniques.