Fastening to MDF

>
> I seriously doubt there is anything in the cabinets that is 2X

Well, I would think there is some sort of substantative framing, under/
inside there, made of something other than MDF. Who would build a
cabinet without a properly, or nearly (?) properly, framed base. *I'm
not sure what a "nearly" properly framed base would be, either. It's
either proper or it's not!

> > Caulk the molding-floor junction.
>
> There won't be a junction, the purpose of the molding is to hold down the
> vinyl.

Where is the vinyl, if not on the floor? Caulk the vinyl (floor)-
molding "seam", "junction", "meeting edge", so that spilled water,
etc. doesn't seep up under the molding.... i.e., same as caulking
shoebase molding along any "floor line", especially where there is
uneven flooring and/or where there are uneven molding edges (relative
to the floor).

Sonny

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:47:02 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:

>dpb wrote:
>> On 8/28/2011 8:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was installed after the
>>> cabinets and is curling here and there where it meets the cabinets. My
>>> plan is to make a molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and
>>> to afix it vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down the
>>> vinyl. I don't know what the toe kick is made of but it is thin,
>>> probably 1/4, so I'll have to fasten the molding through the toe
>>> kick back into the cabinet sides. I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and
>>> I have never in my life
>>> fastened anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails, no messing with
>>> plugs to hide screws, so my question is: does MDF need to be drilled
>>> for the nails to avoid it splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas
>>> are welcome.
>>
>> Just use a shoe moulding and nail into the floor/subfloor.
>
>Hard to do, concrete floor :)

Glue? You'd have to use something to hold it until it sets. A few finishing
nails should do the trick.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:47:02 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>dpb wrote:
>> On 8/28/2011 8:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was installed after the
>>> cabinets and is curling here and there where it meets the cabinets. My
>>> plan is to make a molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and
>>> to afix it vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down the
>>> vinyl. I don't know what the toe kick is made of but it is thin,
>>> probably 1/4, so I'll have to fasten the molding through the toe
>>> kick back into the cabinet sides. I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and
>>> I have never in my life
>>> fastened anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails, no messing with
>>> plugs to hide screws, so my question is: does MDF need to be drilled
>>> for the nails to avoid it splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas
>>> are welcome.
>>
>> Just use a shoe moulding and nail into the floor/subfloor.
>
>Hard to do, concrete floor :)

Structural adhesive is your friend. Clean well first.
And don't forget to use a brad or two to hold it while the glue dries.

--
The problem with borrowing money from China is
that thirty minutes later, you feel broke again.
--Steve Bridges as Obama

In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> If you don't want to putz around with leveling each and every cabinet
> the unifying base is the way to go.

Well, you do it your way and the rest of industry, especially at the lower
end of the market, does it the cheapeast way possible - MDF for
everything. Often cabinets sitting on four (Sometimes five for a double
width one) plastic leveling legs, hidden by the kick-board at the bottom,
when assembled.

--
Stuart Winsor

In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> Just pointing out that

> "No kitchen cabinet in the past 10-20-30 years has needed a base built
> for it."

> Was not correct.

No offence was intended :-)

--
Stuart Winsor

On 8/28/2011 5:55 PM, Stuart wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> If you don't want to putz around with leveling each and every cabinet
>> the unifying base is the way to go.
>
> Well, you do it your way and the rest of industry, especially at the lower
> end of the market, does it the cheapeast way possible - MDF for
> everything. Often cabinets sitting on four (Sometimes five for a double
> width one) plastic leveling legs, hidden by the kick-board at the bottom,
> when assembled.
>

Just pointing out that

"No kitchen cabinet in the past 10-20-30 years has needed a base built
for it."

Was not correct.

On Aug 28, 1:02=A0pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I seriously doubt there is anything in the cabinets that is 2X
>
> Well, I would think there is some sort of substantative framing, under/
> inside there, made of something other than MDF. =A0Who would build a
> cabinet without a properly, or nearly (?) properly, framed base. *I'm
> not sure what a "nearly" properly framed base would be, either. =A0It's
> either proper or it's not!



No kitchen cabinet in the past 10-20-30 years has needed a base built
for it. Cabinets come with sides that extend to the floor and form
the toekick area. The bottom drawer or floor of the cabinet is 4
inches off the floor due to the sides extending down. No 2x4 separate
base is ever used.

For the original question asker, use an 18 guage air gun to nail the
molding in front of the toekick. Shoot it into the front edges of the
sides of the cabinets. And caulk the seam as the other person
suggested.





>
> > > Caulk the molding-floor junction.
>
> > There won't be a junction, the purpose of the molding is to hold down t=
he
> > vinyl.
>
> Where is the vinyl, if not on the floor? =A0 Caulk the vinyl (floor)-
> molding "seam", "junction", "meeting edge", so that spilled water,
> etc. doesn't seep up under the molding.... =A0i.e., same as caulking
> shoebase molding along any "floor line", especially where there is
> uneven flooring and/or where there are uneven molding edges (relative
> to the floor).
>
> Sonny

On 8/28/2011 2:09 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 28, 1:02 pm, Sonny<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I seriously doubt there is anything in the cabinets that is 2X
>>
>> Well, I would think there is some sort of substantative framing, under/
>> inside there, made of something other than MDF. Who would build a
>> cabinet without a properly, or nearly (?) properly, framed base. *I'm
>> not sure what a "nearly" properly framed base would be, either. It's
>> either proper or it's not!
>
>
>
> No kitchen cabinet in the past 10-20-30 years has needed a base built
> for it. Cabinets come with sides that extend to the floor and form
> the toekick area. The bottom drawer or floor of the cabinet is 4
> inches off the floor due to the sides extending down. No 2x4 separate
> base is ever used.

Not meaning to pop your bubble here but "No kitchen cabinet" is a pretty
broad stroke. I just participated in the building and install of
kitchen cabinets on separate bases. If you don't want to putz around
with leveling each and every cabinet the unifying base is the way to go.

On Aug 29, 12:01=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/29/11 9:37 AM, Twayne wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Innews:[email protected],
> > dadiOH<[email protected]> =A0typed:
> >> My wife recently wound up with her deceased mother's
> >> house. =A0It has numerous smallish - and some not so
> >> smallish - problems.
> >> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. =A0It was
> >> installed after the cabinets and is curling here and
> >> there where it meets the cabinets. =A0My plan is to make a
> >> molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and to afix
> >> it vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down
> >> the vinyl. =A0I don't know what the toe kick is made of but
> >> it is thin, probably 1/4, so I'll have to fasten the
> >> molding through the toe kick back into the cabinet sides.
>
> >> I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and I have never in
> >> my life fastened anything to MDF. =A0I prefer to use nails,
> >> no messing with plugs to hide screws, so my question is:
> >> does MDF need to be drilled for the nails to avoid it
> >> splitting? =A0Any alternate fastening ideas are welcome.
>
> > I'd use glue to affix it.
>
> Others suggested nails with a nail gun and I second that.
>
> I don't know if this would work in this specific situation, but it's
> worth bringing up, since we're on the subject of glue.....
>
> On a couple occasions I have attached trim with hot glue. They make a
> really strong version for woodworking but it's not absolutely necessary.
> I've used regular craft hot glue sticks.
> One technique I use for longer life is to use regular wood glue on most
> of the trim and put hot melt glue at intervals to act as "clamps" to
> hold the trim up until the wood glue dries.
>
> In any case, Titebond Molding & Trim Glue is great for trim. It's
> thicker than yellow glue, tacky, and sets up faster.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Many curl their lip when HotMelt is mentioned. As always, there are
many types to chose from. If you go to the 1/2" sticks, most of those
types can be bought by the pound in =B110" long sticks.
I got 450 sticks for $ 105. Do the math vs 10 sticks at HD for $7.00.
The better guns are 3M ScotchWeld AEII. Very fast to heat up and
thermostatically controlled so the glue doesn't char.
One problem, at least around here, they only sell them in 5-packs.
About $75 each.
2 in the shop, 3 in toolboxes, there's your 5.
I have no idea how I would install crown moulding without using the
method -MIKE- mentions. Baseboard becomes a snap.
Last time I used hotmelt in a creative way, was to put a few drops on
the end of a stick to get my tape measure out from behind a corner
cabinet. Some idiot dropped it back there.

I never use HotMelt as a permanent adhesive, although one could in
many situations. I use the stuff as clamps.

If I understand correctly, you want to, essentially, install a
shoebase molding under the toekick, along the floor.

I would think the base of the cabinet is framed with 2X4s, or similar,
and the thin toekick facing is attached to that framing. If this is
the case, simply find the cabinet base framing members and attach your
molding to that framing. Caulk the molding-floor junction.

Sonny

On 8/28/2011 8:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:
...

> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was installed after the
> cabinets and is curling here and there where it meets the cabinets. My plan
> is to make a molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and to afix it
> vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down the vinyl. I don't know
> what the toe kick is made of but it is thin, probably 1/4, so I'll have to
> fasten the molding through the toe kick back into the cabinet sides.
>
> I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and I have never in my life fastened
> anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails, no messing with plugs to hide
> screws, so my question is: does MDF need to be drilled for the nails to
> avoid it splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas are welcome.

Just use a shoe moulding and nail into the floor/subfloor.

--

I would plan on using an air nailer or stapler. YOu do NOt need to
predrill. T head nails should virtually disappear. I would pre paint
and shoot it on the thin toe kick.



On 8/28/2011 8:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> My wife recently wound up with her deceased mother's house. It has numerous
> smallish - and some not so smallish - problems.
>
> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was installed after the
> cabinets and is curling here and there where it meets the cabinets. My plan
> is to make a molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and to afix it
> vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down the vinyl. I don't know
> what the toe kick is made of but it is thin, probably 1/4, so I'll have to
> fasten the molding through the toe kick back into the cabinet sides.
>
> I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and I have never in my life fastened
> anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails, no messing with plugs to hide
> screws, so my question is: does MDF need to be drilled for the nails to
> avoid it splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas are welcome.
>

dpb wrote:
> On 8/28/2011 8:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> ...
>
>> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was installed after the
>> cabinets and is curling here and there where it meets the cabinets. My
>> plan is to make a molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and
>> to afix it vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down the
>> vinyl. I don't know what the toe kick is made of but it is thin,
>> probably 1/4, so I'll have to fasten the molding through the toe
>> kick back into the cabinet sides. I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and
>> I have never in my life
>> fastened anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails, no messing with
>> plugs to hide screws, so my question is: does MDF need to be drilled
>> for the nails to avoid it splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas
>> are welcome.
>
> Just use a shoe moulding and nail into the floor/subfloor.

Hard to do, concrete floor :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Sonny wrote:
> If I understand correctly, you want to, essentially, install a
> shoebase molding under the toekick, along the floor.
>
> I would think the base of the cabinet is framed with 2X4s, or similar,
> and the thin toekick facing is attached to that framing. If this is
> the case, simply find the cabinet base framing members and attach your
> molding to that framing.

I seriously doubt there is anything in the cabinets that is 2X

> Caulk the molding-floor junction.

There won't be a junction, the purpose of the molding is to hold down the
vinyl.




--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 8/28/2011 11:47 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> dpb wrote:
...

>> Just use a shoe moulding and nail into the floor/subfloor.
>
> Hard to do, concrete floor :)

Contact cement like laying laminate then will work.

If you have a finish nailer or brad nailer a couple small nails/brads
will keep it from moving 'til fully cures to make sure the flooring
doesn't move it. Lacking that, if it's hardwood just predrill a few
pilot holes before installing.

--

[email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 28, 1:02 pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I seriously doubt there is anything in the cabinets that is 2X
>>
>> Well, I would think there is some sort of substantative framing,
>> under/ inside there, made of something other than MDF. Who would
>> build a cabinet without a properly, or nearly (?) properly, framed
>> base. *I'm not sure what a "nearly" properly framed base would be,
>> either. It's either proper or it's not!
>
>
>
> No kitchen cabinet in the past 10-20-30 years has needed a base built
> for it. Cabinets come with sides that extend to the floor and form
> the toekick area. The bottom drawer or floor of the cabinet is 4
> inches off the floor due to the sides extending down. No 2x4 separate
> base is ever used.
>
> For the original question asker, use an 18 guage air gun to nail the
> molding in front of the toekick. Shoot it into the front edges of the
> sides of the cabinets. And caulk the seam as the other person
> suggested.

Thanks. No air gun but 18 gauge I can handle :)

BTW, I would agree with you about 2x4 bases for cabinets for *commercial*
cabinets. For me, I always use them...easier to level it then cabs plus no
cutting out a toe kick on cabinet ends. Win/win.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In news:[email protected],
dadiOH <[email protected]> typed:
> My wife recently wound up with her deceased mother's
> house. It has numerous smallish - and some not so
> smallish - problems.
> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was
> installed after the cabinets and is curling here and
> there where it meets the cabinets. My plan is to make a
> molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and to afix
> it vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down
> the vinyl. I don't know what the toe kick is made of but
> it is thin, probably 1/4, so I'll have to fasten the
> molding through the toe kick back into the cabinet sides.
>
> I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and I have never in
> my life fastened anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails,
> no messing with plugs to hide screws, so my question is:
> does MDF need to be drilled for the nails to avoid it
> splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas are welcome.

I'd use glue to affix it.

On 8/29/11 9:37 AM, Twayne wrote:
> In news:[email protected],
> dadiOH<[email protected]> typed:
>> My wife recently wound up with her deceased mother's
>> house. It has numerous smallish - and some not so
>> smallish - problems.
>> One is that the kitchen has sheet vinyl. It was
>> installed after the cabinets and is curling here and
>> there where it meets the cabinets. My plan is to make a
>> molding in the range of 1/2 X 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 and to afix
>> it vertically at the back of the toe kick to hold down
>> the vinyl. I don't know what the toe kick is made of but
>> it is thin, probably 1/4, so I'll have to fasten the
>> molding through the toe kick back into the cabinet sides.
>>
>> I suspect the cabinet sides are MDF and I have never in
>> my life fastened anything to MDF. I prefer to use nails,
>> no messing with plugs to hide screws, so my question is:
>> does MDF need to be drilled for the nails to avoid it
>> splitting? Any alternate fastening ideas are welcome.
>
> I'd use glue to affix it.
>

Others suggested nails with a nail gun and I second that.

I don't know if this would work in this specific situation, but it's
worth bringing up, since we're on the subject of glue.....

On a couple occasions I have attached trim with hot glue. They make a
really strong version for woodworking but it's not absolutely necessary.
I've used regular craft hot glue sticks.
One technique I use for longer life is to use regular wood glue on most
of the trim and put hot melt glue at intervals to act as "clamps" to
hold the trim up until the wood glue dries.

In any case, Titebond Molding & Trim Glue is great for trim. It's
thicker than yellow glue, tacky, and sets up faster.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/29/11 11:48 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Aug 29, 12:01 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I don't know if this would work in this specific situation, but it's
>> worth bringing up, since we're on the subject of glue.....
>>
>> On a couple occasions I have attached trim with hot glue. They make a
>> really strong version for woodworking but it's not absolutely necessary.
>> I've used regular craft hot glue sticks.
>> One technique I use for longer life is to use regular wood glue on most
>> of the trim and put hot melt glue at intervals to act as "clamps" to
>> hold the trim up until the wood glue dries.
>>
>>
>> -MIKE-
>
> I have no idea how I would install crown moulding without using the
> method -MIKE- mentions.

That's exactly what I use it for, last time.
I love to use it to hold outside corners together. You can avoid a lot
of splits from trying to nail the corners tight together. The cured glue
that squeezes out, peels right off the trim leaving no evidence.


> Baseboard becomes a snap.
> Last time I used hotmelt in a creative way, was to put a few drops on
> the end of a stick to get my tape measure out from behind a corner
> cabinet. Some idiot dropped it back there.
>

I hope you docked that idiot's pay. :-)



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply