Greetings and Salutations.
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:18:39 -0400, "anthony" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Guys, help me out on this....
>
>I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
>decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
>doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
>achieve a professional result?
>
>thanks,
>Anthony
>
>
Well, the last time I had to deal with this problem, I ended
up making plugs for the old holes and gluing them in place. After
things had set up well, I simply used hole saws and forstner bits
to drill the NEW holes where I wanted them. Since the new hardware
was offset enough from the old that there would have been a noticable
gap, I thought this the simplist way to deal with it. If carefully
done, filled and sanded, it leaves a smooth surface that, when
painted, will make it hard to tell the holes were there.
on the other hand, if the existing hardware still works
well - why fix it? The tarnish problem can be dealt with by
making sure the doors get used on a regular basis.
Regards
Dave Mundt
Anthony,
Here's a way it will take you 15 minutes...No Fuss...No filling..No Bogging
1) Mark out the centre of the existing hole in door out about 3" from the
hole both vertical & horizontal.
2) Take 2 pieces of scrap timber 4"x4"x 1/2" thick and mark a cross in the
centre, out to the edges
3) Cover the hole with the scrap timber..1 on either side ...line up the
cross on the timber with the centeline of the hole on the door and clamp
them.
4) Useing a HOLE SAW, drill through the scrap...this will put the hole
centred on the old hole and the scrap timber will guide your hole saw into
the door. Repeat on from the other side and PRESTO..New hole centred on old
hole ...15 minutes tops
FOW <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm tellin ya to glue a tight fitting plug in the hole and redrill it. Way
> faster than all the stuff everyone else is saying. It would have been done
> by now. Really ,just plug the hole and redrill it out. Might need some
bondo
> though. Unless its a stain grade door. Use a flycutter/ plug cutter things
> you use in a drill press.NOT a hole saw ! Cut it out oversze a wee bit and
> rasp it to fit in the hole. As long as its flush to both sides or a little
> over thickness. Sand it flush to the faces of the door stile , then plug
the
> little hole in the center of the plug then holesaw/ redrill the new hole
> out. Works for me when I blow the hole, too big.Thish should take you
about
> 1 hr to cut the plug/ fit and glue it in/Use 5 min Epoxy. Beltsand to
flush
> and redrill the hole.
> 2 1/2 hr job. EASY !
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Guys, help me out on this....
> > >
> > > I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly.
So,
> > I've
> > > decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes
on
> > the
> > > doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions
to
> > > achieve a professional result?
> >
> > I see you already have help on the holes so I have nothing to add.
> >
> > Just be sure of what you are replacing. They could be old junk, they
could
> > be of some value to a home restorer. Check it out before you toss them.
> It
> > may also be possible to re-plate them if you like the style.
> > Ed
> > [email protected]
> > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Thanks to all who have made suggestions. I was hoping to keep all the old
knobs,etc., except they are completely worn out. They "grind" when opening
and closing the doors and there's metal filings all over the linings of the
holes. I should have mentioned that sooner. Maybe the original owners of
this home must have hung 100lb laundry bags on them! lol...
It's at times like this I had my lathe. I would have turned a plug and
glued it in and then redrill the holes. I learned my lesson - NEVER sell a
good tool!!
Anyways guys, thanks for the great replies and, please, keep them coming if
you've ideas. I'm not in any big hurry. Gotta keep time open for golf,
right?
anthony
"Dave Mundt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings and Salutations.
>
> On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:18:39 -0400, "anthony" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Guys, help me out on this....
> >
> >I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
> >decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
> >doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> >achieve a professional result?
> >
> >thanks,
> >Anthony
> >
> >
> Well, the last time I had to deal with this problem, I ended
> up making plugs for the old holes and gluing them in place. After
> things had set up well, I simply used hole saws and forstner bits
> to drill the NEW holes where I wanted them. Since the new hardware
> was offset enough from the old that there would have been a noticable
> gap, I thought this the simplist way to deal with it. If carefully
> done, filled and sanded, it leaves a smooth surface that, when
> painted, will make it hard to tell the holes were there.
> on the other hand, if the existing hardware still works
> well - why fix it? The tarnish problem can be dealt with by
> making sure the doors get used on a regular basis.
> Regards
> Dave Mundt
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Guys, help me out on this....
>
> I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
> decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
> doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> achieve a professional result?
>
> thanks,
> Anthony
>
Purchase a hole saw (there's a standard size for current
locksets). Use a piece of scrap 1/8" masonite or 1/4" ply
or anything similar, about 3x3". Use small brads to
temporarily tack this scrap to the door over the existing
hole. This will give you material to start the hole saw
with. So long as the existing holes aren't too far from the
door edge, you'll be able to make the change seamlessly.
--
Mark
The truth as I perceive it to be.
Your perception may be different.
Trent© <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> The piece of wood goes over the old hole.
>
> The first problem...
>
> How do you know where the exact center is of the old hole?...in order
> to position the drill properly...in order to be at the exact center of
> the hole when you drill thru the good piece? I know it could be
> done...with a lot of EXACT measuring...but
You don't really care about the center of the old hole. Just
position the guide (scrap) so that it's center is the right
distance from the edge of the door for the new lockset.
> But here's the real thing that puzzles me...
<...>
> Now...if you put a scrap piece on the OTHER side of the hole...and the
> drill bit was long enough to catch that scrap piece...then that would
> be another thing. The bit would pull the saw thru...and it'd be kinda
> easy to gauge the center of the old hole.
The center drill bit doesn't pull the hole saw thru, it's
just there for guidance. You still have to push the drill
to force the hole saw teeth into the work.
John
(who's done the very thing suggested, and recommends using
a piece of 1x rather than something as thin as 1/4 ply, to
provide a better guide for the hole saw)
"Ted Ward" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Strange, I had this exact problem last night. I was installing a lock
> and the hole needed to be 1/8 inch larger. I just put a wood boring
> bit into my drill and carefully got it started and widened the hole.
> The sides of the boring bit are slightly tapered so it guided it right
> through.
>
You could make a quick jig, 2 pieces of ply or mdf with a piece the
thickness of the door sandwiched between so that you have a U shape to
slip over the door. Determine the distance between center of hole and
edge of door, drill a hole the appropriate size in your jig at this same
location and then use the jig to guide a hole saw.
The whole thing shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to make up, and
could be used for setting up holes in new doors as well.
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> David B. Chamberlain wrote:
>>
>> > information, and are now staring at a 1-1/2" hole where a 1-3/4"
>> > hole is supposed to be. Now you can fix such vexations. Simply
>> > screw the hole
> saw
>>
>> Too bad it's a mail order thing. I generally stay away from mail
>> order.
>>
>> That sounds very useful to have around.
>>
>> As far as a me too answer, I was going to suggest using a hole saw or
>> fly cutter to make a plug the size of the old hole, and using that to
>> guide in a new hole saw. I don't know if that would work. The mail
>> order gadget sounds much better though.
>>
>> --
>> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
>> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
>> Confirmed post number: 16952 Approximate word count: 508560
>> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>>
>
>
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> be of some value to a home restorer. Check it out before you toss them.
> It may also be possible to re-plate them if you like the style.
Or for that matter, whip out the Brasso. Brass takes a long time to get
truly nasty looking, so if you clean it up good, it will probably be
possible to maintain it in some perpetual state of partial tarnish forever
with a little routine maintenance.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 16953 Approximate word count: 508590
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 03:05:38 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Trent©" <[email protected]> wrote in message > >> Anthony
>> >>
>> >Purchase a hole saw (there's a standard size for current
>> >locksets). Use a piece of scrap 1/8" masonite or 1/4" ply
>> >or anything similar, about 3x3". Use small brads to
>> >temporarily tack this scrap to the door over the existing
>> >hole. This will give you material to start the hole saw
>> >with. So long as the existing holes aren't too far from the
>> >door edge, you'll be able to make the change seamlessly.
>>
>> I can't for the life of me see how this would work. lol Am I missing
>> something.
>>
>>
>> Have a nice week...
>>
>> Trent
>
>Wish I had thought of doing that in the past. The problem with making an
>existing hole larger is that there is nothing for the center drill bit to
>lock into until the saw starts making its hole. By putting a piece of wood
>over the hole, it is like starting a new hole and the center bit, then the
>saw are held in proper location until the cut is made. Then the tacked on
>piece is removed.
>Ed
But here's what I'm picturing, Ed...
The piece of wood goes over the old hole.
The first problem...
How do you know where the exact center is of the old hole?...in order
to position the drill properly...in order to be at the exact center of
the hole when you drill thru the good piece? I know it could be
done...with a lot of EXACT measuring...but
But here's the real thing that puzzles me...
If I'm using a hole saw, the drill bit bites into the scrap piece.
You finally get the hole saw down to the scrap piece...and you start
cutting the new, larger hole. When you get thru the scrap piece, by
that time the drill bit is no longer biting into anything. The only
thing that's happening is that you now have a new, larger hole in the
scrap piece...and the sides of that hole can steady your saw...to keep
on going and drill the larger hole in the door. But the drill bit
itself no longer has any bite.
The 2x4 or even 2x6 template would do the same thing...probably
better.
Now...if you put a scrap piece on the OTHER side of the hole...and the
drill bit was long enough to catch that scrap piece...then that would
be another thing. The bit would pull the saw thru...and it'd be kinda
easy to gauge the center of the old hole.
Maybe that's what he meant...putting the scrap on the opposite side.
Did I miss something? I HAVE been running low on coffee lately! lol
Have a nice week...
Trent
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
Go to an auto parts store and get a can of Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish.
It works as well on brass as it does on aluminum. When I was in basic
training, there was a guy that used to be an auto detailer. He brought a can
of Mother's with him. The rest of us had Brasso as it was available in the
PX. After seeing what it could do, the drill sargent told the guy that he
would have to use Brasso like the rest of us unless he wanted to supply us
all with Mother's. It IS that good. Try it. You'll never use Brasso again.
"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anthony,
>
> Others have answered how to cut the hole and several suggested
refurbishing
> the brass. I'm in the process of rebuilding some French doors for my
> niece - 2 sets. The old brass door knob sets where damn near black from
> weathering, looked terrible with the inside bright brass parts scratched
and
> ugly as sin....
>
> Some lacquer thinner to clean the gunk off then a good rubbing/polishing
> with Brasso. They're bright brass again, almost all the scratches are
> rubbed out (inside door knobs) and after cleaning them again with the
> thinner, I'll be using an enamel, clear protective coating on them
> (Rustoleum).
>
> Considering that a new, brass replacement lockset similar to what is on
the
> doors would cost nearly $150 each, a couple hours of cleaning, polishing
and
> spraying is saving my niece about $300 for two door sets.
>
> A can of Brasso will set you back $3 and is more than enough to do a
> houseful of doorknobs. You could even mount a polishing wheel on your
> grinder (if you have one) and use jewelers rouge to speed up the process.
>
> Bob S.
>
>
Yea, I'd sure try polishing or plating, at least get an estimate.
If you redrill, you can clamp the sacrificial stock with Quickgrips or c
clamps and blocks, so you don't make nail holes. If you use a piece of
1/2-3/4" pine, you can use it repeatedly. The hole in the pine will guide
the saw just fine and won't wear much.
If you need to make disks, you can use this method and leave the pilot bit
out entirely!
Wilson
"anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guys, help me out on this....
>
> I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
> decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
> doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> achieve a professional result?
>
> thanks,
> Anthony
>
>
> Well, it actually DOES pull. But that's not the point I was trying to
> stress. The pulling or not pulling is not the important thing, of
> course. Once the drill is thru the template, the template really has
> no purpose...except that the sides of the new hole will stabilize the
> hole saw.
Yes, that is sufficient and is the entire purpose of the template.
>There no longer is any guidance for the drill bit.
And no real need for it anyway. It is only used to center the drill
initially. After that it has no effect anyway.
> As I said, you can accomplish the same thing...and probably a lot
> better...buy drilling the new hole FIRST...in the 2x template OFF the
> door...then putting the template on the door...centering it
> properly
> Trent
Why drill twice?
Put the scrap on the door, mark and drill.
Why make things more difficult?
-Jack
Hi Anthony,
Professional results require professional tools. Check out your local
rental places and try to locate a jig for drilling holes for lockset
hardware. I have a jig made by Kwikset that I used when installing doors and
hardware many years ago. I bought a new door for a customer by using the
hole saw method and decided right then and there that the jig was not all
that expensive after all was said and done.
The jig adjusts for different thickness of doors and has an adjustment to
keep the jaws parallel as well. The bolt hole guide automatically centers
when changing thickness of doors. A kit will have a forstner bit for the
large hole and an auger bit for the bolt hole and require a 1/2 inch drill.
Once set, you can do a door in under 10 minutes and can save you lots of
time and endless amounts of frustration if you are doing a retrofit on the
whole house.
Just one professional opinion. You might want to get another on the
possible "antique" value of your old hardware. Some old hardware is almost
worth its weight in gold to those who do high end restoration work! Good
luck with your project. ;)
Dan
"Eccentric by nature"
"anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guys, help me out on this....
>
> I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
> decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
> doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> achieve a professional result?
>
> thanks,
> Anthony
>
>
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:18:39 -0400, "anthony" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Guys, help me out on this....
>
>I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
>decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
>doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
>achieve a professional result?
>
>thanks,
>Anthony
>
Before you enlarge any of the holes, make sure the hardware will fit.
The center of the hole may need to be in a different location...not
merely making the hole larger.
Couple ideas...
1. Drill out the required size hole in a stub 2x4...then secure it
over the old hole and use it as a template for the new hole.
2. Drill out the hole in a thin piece (1 in.) of stock...then use
that as a template with a trim router bit.
Good luck.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
On 4 Aug 2003 15:57:48 GMT, John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>Trent© <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> The piece of wood goes over the old hole.
>>
>> The first problem...
>>
>> How do you know where the exact center is of the old hole?...in order
>> to position the drill properly...in order to be at the exact center of
>> the hole when you drill thru the good piece? I know it could be
>> done...with a lot of EXACT measuring...but
>
>You don't really care about the center of the old hole. Just
>position the guide (scrap) so that it's center is the right
>distance from the edge of the door for the new lockset.
We're talking about the original problem, John. The OP wants to
enlarge the hole...just make it larger from its original center point.
>> But here's the real thing that puzzles me...
>
><...>
>
>> Now...if you put a scrap piece on the OTHER side of the hole...and the
>> drill bit was long enough to catch that scrap piece...then that would
>> be another thing. The bit would pull the saw thru...and it'd be kinda
>> easy to gauge the center of the old hole.
>
>The center drill bit doesn't pull the hole saw thru, it's
>just there for guidance. You still have to push the drill
>to force the hole saw teeth into the work.
Well, it actually DOES pull. But that's not the point I was trying to
stress. The pulling or not pulling is not the important thing, of
course. Once the drill is thru the template, the template really has
no purpose...except that the sides of the new hole will stabilize the
hole saw. There no longer is any guidance for the drill bit.
As I said, you can accomplish the same thing...and probably a lot
better...buy drilling the new hole FIRST...in the 2x template OFF the
door...then putting the template on the door...centering it
properly...and then drilling again with the template to enlarge the
hole.
>John
>
>(who's done the very thing suggested, and recommends using
>a piece of 1x rather than something as thin as 1/4 ply, to
>provide a better guide for the hole saw)
Personally, I'd probably use 1/4 or 1/2 stock...drill the hole...then
clamp it on the door and router it.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
What I do is cut out a plug with a hole cutter on a drill press. Glue it
....epoxy? It back into the door and then redrill your hole out.
"anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guys, help me out on this....
>
> I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
> decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
> doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> achieve a professional result?
>
> thanks,
> Anthony
>
>
David B. Chamberlain wrote:
> information, and are now staring at a 1-1/2" hole where a 1-3/4" hole is
> supposed to be. Now you can fix such vexations. Simply screw the hole saw
Too bad it's a mail order thing. I generally stay away from mail order.
That sounds very useful to have around.
As far as a me too answer, I was going to suggest using a hole saw or fly
cutter to make a plug the size of the old hole, and using that to guide in
a new hole saw. I don't know if that would work. The mail order gadget
sounds much better though.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 16952 Approximate word count: 508560
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:07:45 -0700, "JackD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well, it actually DOES pull. But that's not the point I was trying to
>> stress. The pulling or not pulling is not the important thing, of
>> course. Once the drill is thru the template, the template really has
>> no purpose...except that the sides of the new hole will stabilize the
>> hole saw.
>
>Yes, that is sufficient and is the entire purpose of the template.
>
>>There no longer is any guidance for the drill bit.
>
>And no real need for it anyway. It is only used to center the drill
>initially. After that it has no effect anyway.
>
>> As I said, you can accomplish the same thing...and probably a lot
>> better...buy drilling the new hole FIRST...in the 2x template OFF the
>> door...then putting the template on the door...centering it
>> properly
>> Trent
>
>Why drill twice?
>Put the scrap on the door, mark and drill.
>Why make things more difficult?
No matter where you drill the template, Jack...on the door...or off to
the side...yer only drilling the template once.
Me, personally...
I'd rather line up a hole over another hole...than line up a drilling
point on a block of wood with a hole. And I could even put the
old-size hole saw into the old hole...so that I could make sure the
spacing was pretty much even around the template hole.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
There is a hole drill arbor that holds two different hole saws. You put a
smaller hole saw on that just fits the old hole and a bigger hole saw that
is the correct size. The small hole saw acts as a guide for the big saw.
It is made by Starret and McFeely's carries it as part #HS-0019. They say:
It could happen to anyone, but it happened to you. You relied on bad
information, and are now staring at a 1-1/2" hole where a 1-3/4" hole is
supposed to be. Now you can fix such vexations. Simply screw the hole saw
for the existing hole onto the "OOPS" arbor (it accepts both 1/2" and 5/8"
threaded cutters), screw the correct hole saw onto the pin-lock arbor, then
place the "OOPS" arbor in the pilot drill hole. For the system to work, the
inside and outside hole saws must have a size difference of at least 3/16".
Perfect when installing new door lock hardware, or when enlarging holes for
new piping in an old house. (Hole saw blades not included). Made in USA.
If you do not have a 3/16" difference you can use a router an a rabetting
bit. Put the correct ball bearing on your rabettting bit and make a cut
about halfway through the door. If the old hole is 1" and you need a 1 1/4"
hole, you would make an 1.8" rabbet around the hole. Then swap in a pattern
cutting bit and use the newly cut rabbet as a guide to finish the rest of
the cut.
Clear as MUD???
--
David Chamberlain
[email protected]
remove nospam to reach me
thony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guys, help me out on this....
>
> I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
I've
> decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
the
> doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> achieve a professional result?
>
> thanks,
> Anthony
>
>
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:53:41 -0400, Mark <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> Guys, help me out on this....
>>
>> I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So, I've
>> decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on the
>> doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
>> achieve a professional result?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Anthony
>>
>Purchase a hole saw (there's a standard size for current
>locksets). Use a piece of scrap 1/8" masonite or 1/4" ply
>or anything similar, about 3x3". Use small brads to
>temporarily tack this scrap to the door over the existing
>hole. This will give you material to start the hole saw
>with. So long as the existing holes aren't too far from the
>door edge, you'll be able to make the change seamlessly.
I can't for the life of me see how this would work. lol Am I missing
something.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
I'm tellin ya to glue a tight fitting plug in the hole and redrill it. Way
faster than all the stuff everyone else is saying. It would have been done
by now. Really ,just plug the hole and redrill it out. Might need some bondo
though. Unless its a stain grade door. Use a flycutter/ plug cutter things
you use in a drill press.NOT a hole saw ! Cut it out oversze a wee bit and
rasp it to fit in the hole. As long as its flush to both sides or a little
over thickness. Sand it flush to the faces of the door stile , then plug the
little hole in the center of the plug then holesaw/ redrill the new hole
out. Works for me when I blow the hole, too big.Thish should take you about
1 hr to cut the plug/ fit and glue it in/Use 5 min Epoxy. Beltsand to flush
and redrill the hole.
2 1/2 hr job. EASY !
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Guys, help me out on this....
> >
> > I have an older home where all the door knobs are tarnished badly. So,
> I've
> > decided to replace them with new ones. The problem is the old holes on
> the
> > doors are too small to accept the new knob fixtures. Any suggestions to
> > achieve a professional result?
>
> I see you already have help on the holes so I have nothing to add.
>
> Just be sure of what you are replacing. They could be old junk, they could
> be of some value to a home restorer. Check it out before you toss them.
It
> may also be possible to re-plate them if you like the style.
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>
>