Sears CompuCarve - Amazing

Morris Dovey wrote:

[snip]
>
> One of the things that's been fun for me is that my DIY machine's body
> is baltic birch plywood. :-)

Mosquito bombers were plywood. Fine pieces of equipment indeed.
Spruce...like Martin guitars?
I will never apologize for the proper application of plywood, as I know
you haven't.
Used in a proper application, plywood is good stuff. Real good stuff.

http://www.hermanmiller.com/CDA/SSA/Product/0,,a10-c440-p47,00.html

Morris Dovey wrote:
> Not really. If I read the carveright.com FAQ correctly, cutter
> positioning is accurate in 0.006" increments. For quality joinery, I
> found the ShopBot's 0.001" accuracy inadequate - and built my own
> machine from scratch to shrink the resolution to 0.00023". It's a "get
> what you pay for" situation. Anyone who hasn't already can see my ugly
> (but accurate!) machine by following the link below.

0.006 is better than 1/128. I wouldn't be using this for joinery
anyway. Even though it says you can use it for that. I'm mainly
interested in artistic carving. I especially like the carve-through
stuff. My only complaint is that the maximum depth of cut is only 1".
I can't complain though. I guess you could make a 2" thick
carve-through relief carving by running it through one side, then
flipping it over and running the other side through. Lining things up
might be tough.

brian

Morris Dovey wrote:
> Software is glitzy but weak. I'd expect any CNC machine to be able to
> handle the industry-standard g-code (or equivalent) part programs.
> This is probably the Carveright's greatest weakness because it
> prevents use of generally available CAD/CAM packages.

The faq says that they'll be upgrading the software to handle g-code
(import and export) later. If they actually do that then I'm ok with
it. My biggest concern is that I don't want to have to learn something
like autocad in order to use this. But at the same time, it would be
nice to have other sources for data. I'm a software developer so I'm
no stranger to complicated software. I just don't want to spend all my
free time fighting with the software. To use image file software as an
analogy, it clearly needs to be better than paint, but I don't want to
have to learn photoshop.

brian

Morris Dovey wrote:
> Smaug Ichorfang (in [email protected]) said:
>
> | (Morris comments about the accuracy of his DIY CNC router vs
> | ShopBot)
> |
> | So you've improved from xx1 to xx023. How much did yours cost?
>
> That's a difficult question to answer completely. The finished JBot
> materials cost was close to US$1K - but I made at least three of every
> part (not included in the total) and I didn't keep track of my time.

Interesting. Did you end up needing to use some of the extra parts? Or
did things generally fit well.


>
> The interesting side effect is, of course, that when it was all done I
> had all of the design and debugged part programs to create knock-offs.

Do you plan to do that? Build and sell some knockoffs?

steamer wrote:
> --Speaking of thickness I get the impression, from the video, that
> although the machine might have a capacity of several inches of height, the
> routing head looks like it couldn't do and great variation in depth; i.e.
> how deep a hole could you plunge in a part before the chuck got in the way
> of the surrounding wood? If there's clearance then the thing would be damn
> handy for patternmaking.

The faq on the site says 1 inch max. I'd want more than that, but
under the circumstances, it's fine. On the website, they show some
examples of pattern making also. And in the forums, someone uploaded a
file that cuts out knobs for jigs. Cool stuff.

If you wanted more than one inch, you could do the relief cut in two
passes, the first being a through cut. Then you'd get 2 inches of
depth. You'd have to nail the design to make things line up though.

brian

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:58:02 -0500, "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>steamer (in [email protected]) said:
>
>| Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>|| Not really. If I read the carveright.com FAQ correctly, cutter
>|| positioning is accurate in 0.006" increments. For quality joinery,
>|| I found the ShopBot's 0.001" accuracy inadequate - and built my own
>| SNIP
>| --Is this sloppy tolerance a function of software or funky hardware;
>| i.e. might one tighten up the cheap machine by swapping in some
>| ballscrews?
>
>Probably not software and probably not sloppy/funky hardware - much
>more likely a choice involving costs of the linear motion components:
>steppers, driving electronics, lead screws, etc.
>
>Software is glitzy but weak. I'd expect any CNC machine to be able to
>handle the industry-standard g-code (or equivalent) part programs.
>This is probably the Carveright's greatest weakness because it
>prevents use of generally available CAD/CAM packages.

Hey Morris,

You've made the case before about your particular need for
extrordinary tolerances in your product, but .006" is pretty
outstanding for a 3d set-and-forget carving machine under $2k. While
I'm sure they could have made it measure tenths, there's not much need
for that when it comes to a guy making a set of cabriole legs or some
rope molding. :)

I'd rather see it at the price and tolerance rating its at than see it
at the quality level of a Mazak, but far more than ten years' income
for me! For a couple of grand, I might get one at some point in the
future (or perhaps not- it seems it might take a bit of the fun out of
carving)

Would be nice if it did handle standard G-codes, on that I definately
agree. Doesn't make much sense for them not to have done that- just
more work for them to make a slightly inferior product.

Vince Heuring (in 151020060946554457%[email protected])
said:

| Found in the new Craftsman catalog.

<snip>

| Guys, we're entering a new phase in woodworking.

Not really. If I read the carveright.com FAQ correctly, cutter
positioning is accurate in 0.006" increments. For quality joinery, I
found the ShopBot's 0.001" accuracy inadequate - and built my own
machine from scratch to shrink the resolution to 0.00023". It's a "get
what you pay for" situation. Anyone who hasn't already can see my ugly
(but accurate!) machine by following the link below.

One of the things that's been fun for me is that my DIY machine's body
is baltic birch plywood. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/JBot.html

Smaug Ichorfang (in [email protected]) said:

| (Morris comments about the accuracy of his DIY CNC router vs
| ShopBot)
|
| So you've improved from xx1 to xx023. How much did yours cost?

That's a difficult question to answer completely. The finished JBot
materials cost was close to US$1K - but I made at least three of every
part (not included in the total) and I didn't keep track of my time.

It'd have been difficult (but possible) for me to build the JBot
without the ShopBot; but having that to make the baltic birch parts
and being able to use it as a CNC milling machine for aluminum made
things much easier. Without the ShopBot, I would have had to have all
of the metal parts made for me.

Also not included in that total was the time spent "noodling",
producing the CAD drawings (an absolute necessity for this project!),
and hand-coding - and debugging - the part programs that controlled
the ShopBot.

The interesting side effect is, of course, that when it was all done I
had all of the design and debugged part programs to create knock-offs.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>Not really. If I read the carveright.com FAQ correctly, cutter
>positioning is accurate in 0.006" increments. For quality joinery, I
>found the ShopBot's 0.001" accuracy inadequate - and built my own
SNIP
--Is this sloppy tolerance a function of software or funky hardware;
i.e. might one tighten up the cheap machine by swapping in some ballscrews?


--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Proud to be the
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : family crackpot!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

steamer (in [email protected]) said:

| Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
|| Not really. If I read the carveright.com FAQ correctly, cutter
|| positioning is accurate in 0.006" increments. For quality joinery,
|| I found the ShopBot's 0.001" accuracy inadequate - and built my own
| SNIP
| --Is this sloppy tolerance a function of software or funky hardware;
| i.e. might one tighten up the cheap machine by swapping in some
| ballscrews?

Probably not software and probably not sloppy/funky hardware - much
more likely a choice involving costs of the linear motion components:
steppers, driving electronics, lead screws, etc.

Software is glitzy but weak. I'd expect any CNC machine to be able to
handle the industry-standard g-code (or equivalent) part programs.
This is probably the Carveright's greatest weakness because it
prevents use of generally available CAD/CAM packages.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

brianlanning (in [email protected])
said:

| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Software is glitzy but weak. I'd expect any CNC machine to be able
|| to handle the industry-standard g-code (or equivalent) part
|| programs. This is probably the Carveright's greatest weakness
|| because it prevents use of generally available CAD/CAM packages.
|
| The faq says that they'll be upgrading the software to handle g-code
| (import and export) later. If they actually do that then I'm ok
| with it. My biggest concern is that I don't want to have to learn
| something like autocad in order to use this. But at the same time,
| it would be nice to have other sources for data. I'm a software
| developer so I'm no stranger to complicated software. I just don't
| want to spend all my free time fighting with the software. To use
| image file software as an analogy, it clearly needs to be better
| than paint, but I don't want to have to learn photoshop.

I hear you; but my experience has been that as you develop a sense of
what's possible, you tend more and more toward wanting/buying/writing
the tools that realize the possibilities.

I just posted some (lousy) photos to the abpw biscuit joinery thread
that I think would be difficult/impossible to do without a programming
capability of some kind.

The program used, BTW, takes board width and thickness, tennon width,
height, and thickness, and tenon angle as parameters. It does all the
trig and cuts the resultant tenon joint. It'll work with thin stock as
shown - and equally well with two-by lumber. There's just no way to do
that kind of thing from a graphic.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Troy (in [email protected]) said:

| Morris, they did say the G-Code software was on its way.

Yup. They've been saying so for long enough that I've become a bit
skeptical that it'll happen in the (product) lifetime for current
purchasers.

There's a CNC control program with a g-code interpreter available for
download on the web. Registered users ($60) can download full source.
If these guys don't already know how to implement what they've been
promising, they could have looked to see how someone else did it and
followed in their footsteps.

When I purchased my ShopBot, they said (right in one of the
downloadable manuals) that they'd make their source code available to
purchasers - which was a major component of my decision to purchase my
'Bot. I have a really strong preference to run the machine under Linux
(I've never been comfortable entrusting Microsoft with control of a
robot capable of inflicting serious injury). After a couple of years,
I've given up hope of seeing code to port.

I like for parts that I make to fit together without needing to do a
lot of screwing around with hand work to correct for machine
inaccuracies. My experience has been that +/-0.001 is marginal
(perhaps slightly submarginal) for achieving a high quality result.
Too often the choice is between needing to hammer the parts together
or spackle over the joint to hide the gaps.

Having said all that, I should admit that while this product is
actually a pretty nifty 2.5D graphics rendering device - which is how
they present it on their web site. It's just not terrific as a 3D CNC
device for woodworkers.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

bf (in [email protected]) said:

| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Smaug Ichorfang (in [email protected])
|| said:
||
||| (Morris comments about the accuracy of his DIY CNC router vs
||| ShopBot)
|||
||| So you've improved from xx1 to xx023. How much did yours cost?
||
|| That's a difficult question to answer completely. The finished JBot
|| materials cost was close to US$1K - but I made at least three of
|| every part (not included in the total) and I didn't keep track of
|| my time.
|
| Interesting. Did you end up needing to use some of the extra parts?
| Or did things generally fit well.

The re-made parts were to correct for design or part programming goofs
in the replaced parts. The final parts fit exceedingly well - but the
replaced parts are all firewood.

|| The interesting side effect is, of course, that when it was all
|| done I had all of the design and debugged part programs to create
|| knock-offs.
|
| Do you plan to do that? Build and sell some knockoffs?

If someone wanted to buy one, then I'd be happy to build more. If they
come out of my shop, I probably shouldn't call 'em knock-offs. :-)

FWIW, it's a really good learning exercise to DIY...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>The program used, BTW, takes board width and thickness, tennon width,
>height, and thickness, and tenon angle as parameters. It does all the
>trig and cuts the resultant tenon joint. It'll work with thin stock as
>shown - and equally well with two-by lumber. There's just no way to do
>that kind of thing from a graphic.
(SNIP)
--Speaking of thickness I get the impression, from the video, that
although the machine might have a capacity of several inches of height, the
routing head looks like it couldn't do and great variation in depth; i.e.
how deep a hole could you plunge in a part before the chuck got in the way
of the surrounding wood? If there's clearance then the thing would be damn
handy for patternmaking.


--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Proud to be the
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : family crackpot!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

It appears to be a CarveWright

http://www.carveright.com/



"Vince Heuring" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:151020060946554457%[email protected]...
>
> Found in the new Craftsman catalog.
>
> I was standing over the garbage can idly thumbing through the Craftsman
> catalog that came in the mail, prior to throwing it in the can when I
> came across this:
>
> Craftsman CompuCarve Compact Woodworking Machine, Computer-Controlled
>
> Compact, computer-controlled, 3-dimensional woodworking machine with an
> easy-to-use interface. It allows a novice to make a complete project
> without a shop full of tools.The unique configuration allows it to
> perform many other woodworking functions, including ripping, cross
> cutting, mitering, contouring, jointing and routing. The CompuCarve can
> work in most soft materials, including wood, plastics (polycarbonate or
> cast acrylic) and certain types of high density foam. Set includes
> CompuCarve machine, (1) 1/16 in. carbide carving bit, (1) 1/8 in.
> carbide cutting bit, CarveWright Memory Card, starter software package,
> (2) 1/4 in. bit adaptors, vacuum bag adaptor, bit removal tool, hex
> wrench, owner's manual and Quick Start Guide.
> Built-in computer walks you through project setup
> QuickRout technology makes changing bits quick and easy
> Memory card - no need to keep a computer in the shop
> CarveWright design software is powerful yet easy to use - even novices
> can create complex designs in minutes
> Expandable 3-D design library
> Patented rising-head and feed-through configuration handles work pieces
> up to 14-1/2 in. W, 5 in. H and almost any length
> Allows you to achieve professional results regardless of space, time,
> budget or skill
> Requires a PC running Windows 2000 or XP with 128 MB RAM (256 MB or
> greater recommended), 75 MB of hard drive space and an accelerated
> graphics card with OpenGL support
>
>
> It looks like they started with a 14" planar body and added the
> computer control and the bit holder.
>
> Price: $1,899.99, Out of Stock.
>
> No use posting the link, it had a cookie with it. The Sears part number
> is 00921754000.
>
> Two things were mind-boggling: 1) the price: <$2000 for a
> computer-controlled woodworking machine, and 2) it came from Sears.
>
> Guys, we're entering a new phase in woodworking.
>
> And, of course I have no affiliation with Sears aside from the
> screwdriver set I bought 15 years ago.
>
> --
> Vince Heuring To email, remove the Vince.

"Troy" wrote in message
> That could be why it uses ... "
>
> CarveWright Memory Card,

Damn ... I thought there was finally a crockpot for the shop.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/01/06

That was a clue but don't jump to quick though. Craftsman could have had
this manufactured to a proprietary "Craftsman" spec. I looked at the
CarveWright before and thought it was funny that Craftsman would stick their
name on it, since nowadays they do sell other brands.




"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Troy" wrote in message
>> That could be why it uses ... "
>>
>> CarveWright Memory Card,
>
> Damn ... I thought there was finally a crockpot for the shop.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/01/06
>
>

(Morris comments about the accuracy of his DIY CNC router vs ShopBot)

So you've improved from xx1 to xx023. How much did yours cost?

"Vince Heuring" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:151020060946554457%[email protected]...
>
> Found in the new Craftsman catalog.
>
> I was standing over the garbage can idly thumbing through the Craftsman
> catalog that came in the mail, prior to throwing it in the can when I
> came across this:
>
> Craftsman CompuCarve Compact Woodworking Machine, Computer-Controlled
>
> Compact, computer-controlled, 3-dimensional woodworking machine with an
> easy-to-use interface. It allows a novice to make a complete project
> without a shop full of tools.The unique configuration allows it to
> perform many other woodworking functions, including ripping, cross
> cutting, mitering, contouring, jointing and routing. The CompuCarve can
> work in most soft materials, including wood, plastics (polycarbonate or
> cast acrylic) and certain types of high density foam. Set includes
> CompuCarve machine, (1) 1/16 in. carbide carving bit, (1) 1/8 in.
> carbide cutting bit, CarveWright Memory Card, starter software package,
> (2) 1/4 in. bit adaptors, vacuum bag adaptor, bit removal tool, hex
> wrench, owner's manual and Quick Start Guide.
> Built-in computer walks you through project setup
> QuickRout technology makes changing bits quick and easy
> Memory card - no need to keep a computer in the shop
> CarveWright design software is powerful yet easy to use - even novices
> can create complex designs in minutes
> Expandable 3-D design library
> Patented rising-head and feed-through configuration handles work pieces
> up to 14-1/2 in. W, 5 in. H and almost any length
> Allows you to achieve professional results regardless of space, time,
> budget or skill
> Requires a PC running Windows 2000 or XP with 128 MB RAM (256 MB or
> greater recommended), 75 MB of hard drive space and an accelerated
> graphics card with OpenGL support
>
>
> It looks like they started with a 14" planar body and added the
> computer control and the bit holder.
>
> Price: $1,899.99, Out of Stock.
>
> No use posting the link, it had a cookie with it. The Sears part number
> is 00921754000.
>
> Two things were mind-boggling: 1) the price: <$2000 for a
> computer-controlled woodworking machine, and 2) it came from Sears.
>
> Guys, we're entering a new phase in woodworking.
>
I would sure like to see it work. Must be really slow, but if it is set and
forget...

WOW, at that price no wonder its out of stock!
Troy

Vince Heuring wrote:
> Found in the new Craftsman catalog.
>
> I was standing over the garbage can idly thumbing through the Craftsman
> catalog that came in the mail, prior to throwing it in the can when I
> came across this:
>
> Craftsman CompuCarve Compact Woodworking Machine, Computer-Controlled
>
> Compact, computer-controlled, 3-dimensional woodworking machine with an
> easy-to-use interface. It allows a novice to make a complete project
> without a shop full of tools.The unique configuration allows it to
> perform many other woodworking functions, including ripping, cross
> cutting, mitering, contouring, jointing and routing. The CompuCarve can
> work in most soft materials, including wood, plastics (polycarbonate or
> cast acrylic) and certain types of high density foam. Set includes
> CompuCarve machine, (1) 1/16 in. carbide carving bit, (1) 1/8 in.
> carbide cutting bit, CarveWright Memory Card, starter software package,
> (2) 1/4 in. bit adaptors, vacuum bag adaptor, bit removal tool, hex
> wrench, owner's manual and Quick Start Guide.
> Built-in computer walks you through project setup
> QuickRout technology makes changing bits quick and easy
> Memory card - no need to keep a computer in the shop
> CarveWright design software is powerful yet easy to use - even novices
> can create complex designs in minutes
> Expandable 3-D design library
> Patented rising-head and feed-through configuration handles work pieces
> up to 14-1/2 in. W, 5 in. H and almost any length
> Allows you to achieve professional results regardless of space, time,
> budget or skill
> Requires a PC running Windows 2000 or XP with 128 MB RAM (256 MB or
> greater recommended), 75 MB of hard drive space and an accelerated
> graphics card with OpenGL support
>
>
> It looks like they started with a 14" planar body and added the
> computer control and the bit holder.
>
> Price: $1,899.99, Out of Stock.
>
> No use posting the link, it had a cookie with it. The Sears part number
> is 00921754000.
>
> Two things were mind-boggling: 1) the price: <$2000 for a
> computer-controlled woodworking machine, and 2) it came from Sears.
>
> Guys, we're entering a new phase in woodworking.
>
> And, of course I have no affiliation with Sears aside from the
> screwdriver set I bought 15 years ago.
>
>

That could be why it uses ... "

CarveWright Memory Card,
"

:P


Tall Oak wrote:
> It appears to be a CarveWright
>
> http://www.carveright.com/
>
>
>
> "Vince Heuring" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:151020060946554457%[email protected]...
>
>> Found in the new Craftsman catalog.
>>
>> I was standing over the garbage can idly thumbing through the Craftsman
>> catalog that came in the mail, prior to throwing it in the can when I
>> came across this:
>>
>> Craftsman CompuCarve Compact Woodworking Machine, Computer-Controlled
>>
>> Compact, computer-controlled, 3-dimensional woodworking machine with an
>> easy-to-use interface. It allows a novice to make a complete project
>> without a shop full of tools.The unique configuration allows it to
>> perform many other woodworking functions, including ripping, cross
>> cutting, mitering, contouring, jointing and routing. The CompuCarve can
>> work in most soft materials, including wood, plastics (polycarbonate or
>> cast acrylic) and certain types of high density foam. Set includes
>> CompuCarve machine, (1) 1/16 in. carbide carving bit, (1) 1/8 in.
>> carbide cutting bit, CarveWright Memory Card, starter software package,
>> (2) 1/4 in. bit adaptors, vacuum bag adaptor, bit removal tool, hex
>> wrench, owner's manual and Quick Start Guide.
>> Built-in computer walks you through project setup
>> QuickRout technology makes changing bits quick and easy
>> Memory card - no need to keep a computer in the shop
>> CarveWright design software is powerful yet easy to use - even novices
>> can create complex designs in minutes
>> Expandable 3-D design library
>> Patented rising-head and feed-through configuration handles work pieces
>> up to 14-1/2 in. W, 5 in. H and almost any length
>> Allows you to achieve professional results regardless of space, time,
>> budget or skill
>> Requires a PC running Windows 2000 or XP with 128 MB RAM (256 MB or
>> greater recommended), 75 MB of hard drive space and an accelerated
>> graphics card with OpenGL support
>>
>>
>> It looks like they started with a 14" planar body and added the
>> computer control and the bit holder.
>>
>> Price: $1,899.99, Out of Stock.
>>
>> No use posting the link, it had a cookie with it. The Sears part number
>> is 00921754000.
>>
>> Two things were mind-boggling: 1) the price: <$2000 for a
>> computer-controlled woodworking machine, and 2) it came from Sears.
>>
>> Guys, we're entering a new phase in woodworking.
>>
>> And, of course I have no affiliation with Sears aside from the
>> screwdriver set I bought 15 years ago.
>>
>> --
>> Vince Heuring To email, remove the Vince.
>>
>
>
>

"Theoritically" lining it up should be a now brainer, as its supposed to
"know" the board size and positioning, so it would just be mirroring the
other side per se'
You should be able to get it to within .012 i would think.

Troy

brianlanning wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>
>
> 0.006 is better than 1/128. I wouldn't be using this for joinery
> anyway. Even though it says you can use it for that. I'm mainly
> interested in artistic carving. I especially like the carve-through
> stuff. My only complaint is that the maximum depth of cut is only 1".
> I can't complain though. I guess you could make a 2" thick
> carve-through relief carving by running it through one side, then
> flipping it over and running the other side through. Lining things up
> might be tough.
>
> brian
>
>

Morris, they did say the G-Code software was on its way.

Troy

Morris Dovey wrote:
> steamer (in [email protected]) said:
>
> | Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> || Not really. If I read the carveright.com FAQ correctly, cutter
> || positioning is accurate in 0.006" increments. For quality joinery,
> || I found the ShopBot's 0.001" accuracy inadequate - and built my own
> | SNIP
> | --Is this sloppy tolerance a function of software or funky hardware;
> | i.e. might one tighten up the cheap machine by swapping in some
> | ballscrews?
>
> Probably not software and probably not sloppy/funky hardware - much
> more likely a choice involving costs of the linear motion components:
> steppers, driving electronics, lead screws, etc.
>
> Software is glitzy but weak. I'd expect any CNC machine to be able to
> handle the industry-standard g-code (or equivalent) part programs.
> This is probably the Carveright's greatest weakness because it
> prevents use of generally available CAD/CAM packages.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
>
>
>