I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on the
concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by today, I
noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac oozing out of
the can.
After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On 22 Jul 2012 14:19:04 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on the
>concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by today, I
>noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac oozing out of
>the can.
I've had that happen, though it took longer than a few months and I caught it
(purely by accident - we were moving) before more than a drop or two leaked.
Concrete is moisture permeable. The can bottom will trap moisture against it
and start corroding the steel.
>After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
>in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
>rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
>3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
>spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
>cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>
>Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
>100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
The space under the can undoubtedly had much higher humidity.
>I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
>with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
Other than the mess, I don't see how it would affect anything. You're leaving
it on your furniture.
>> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
>> in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
>> rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
>> 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
>> spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
>> cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>>
>> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
>> 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
Only can failures I've had were external causes. Considering where
you had it and the proximity of other chemicals, I'd think it was an
external cause, not a bad can.
On 7/22/2012 4:01 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>>> shellac
>>> oozing out of the can.
>> ------------------------------
>> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>>
>> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
> the battery thing is an old OLD wives tale.
>
Yes and no.
If there is any hint of salts going down the side of a battery it will
kill the battery.
Also the problem with concrete and batteries is usually cold winter
floors.. Batteries don't like the cold in general, but usually revive if
you keep them charged. On the other hand if the battery runs down you
get dendrites which can short a battery... Soooo it is a wives tale,
but partially true, just for the wrong reason.
do it in Florida, and it's not likekly to hurt the battery.
In Wisconsin, it can...
On 7/22/2012 10:19 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on the
> concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by today, I
> noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac oozing out of
> the can.
>
> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
> in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
> rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
> 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
> spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
> cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>
> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
> 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>
> I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
> with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
>
> Puckdropper
>
The pools stuff alone eats away at the metal, so anything else in the
concrete is just fuel...
The heavy heat, humidity, and a can that is blocking off the air flow
under it is a good way to ensure this problem.
Its why I tiled my basement floor aside from saving some tool edges.
Puckdropper wrote:
> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
> shellac
> oozing out of the can.
------------------------------
I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
Lew
Lew
"G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Was the metal etched or rusted around the leak? If so, sounds like an
> external chemical reaction rather than a flawed can.
>
The area around the leak was rusted, it was about 1/8-3/16" in diameter.
Everything else on the bottom of the can is intact and still shiny.
Since it was so localized, I'm wondering if it might be a combination of a
flaw in the metal (to allow the reaction to start) and an external chemical
reaction (that did the bulk of the work).
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On 7/22/2012 3:01 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
> On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>>> shellac
>>> oozing out of the can.
>> ------------------------------
>> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>>
>> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
> the battery thing is an old OLD wives tale.
>
Actually not an old wives tale but the truth when battery cases were
made out of wood and were not sealed as well as modern plastic cased
batteries.
On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>> shellac
>> oozing out of the can.
> ------------------------------
> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>
> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>
> Lew
>
>
> Lew
>
>
>
Then I will have to say that you have learned wrong. Storing wet cell
batteries directly on a concrete floor is perfectly fine.
The old practice and thinking which really makes no sense since the
invention of plastic "WAS" to keep wet cell batteries off of concrete
floors. That was when battery cases were made out of "wood".
Since the use of plastic cases for these type batteries have been used
there is no long an issue of a battery running down from being placed on
a concrete floor.
For about 25 years I stored thousands of car batteries on concrete with
no problem at all.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2012 14:19:04 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>> shellac oozing out of the can.
>>
>> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see
>> the hole in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an
>> inch in from the rim. In the area where the product was leaking,
>> there was an approximately 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete.
>> I'm thinking some chemical was spilled there (it's near a sink, so
>> who knows? It's also near the garbage cans where bags of pool shock
>> are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>>
>> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner?
>> We've had 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>>
>> I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any
>> problems with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
>
> Yes. Cans sitting on the concrete floors pick up the condensation
> from the floor and it immediately promotes rust. Put all steel cans
> on wood shelving to insulate them. Shelves are always less wet than
> concrete.
Immediately would be the worst possible word. They can sit there under
extreme humidity conditions for a very long time before any significant
corrosion occurs. But - that was not even the question that was asked.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Puckdropper wrote:
> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac
> oozing out of the can.
>
> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the
> hole in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in
> from the rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was
> an approximately 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking
> some chemical was spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows?
> It's also near the garbage cans where bags of pool shock are disposed
> of.) and the can failed.
>
> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner?
> We've had 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>
> I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any
> problems with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
>
Have we reached some new point, where we can't even decide to clean up a
mess without taking it to a usenet forum for advice? Come on Puckdropper -
what is it that you really need to be told here? To what gain?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>> shellac
>> oozing out of the can.
> ------------------------------
> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>
> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>
> Lew
>
>
> Lew
>
>
>
And an explanation
http://www.thebatteryterminal.com/TechTalk_Batteries_on_Concrete.htm
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:37:23 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>Have we reached some new point, where we can't even decide to clean up a
>mess without taking it to a usenet forum for advice? Come on Puckdropper -
>what is it that you really need to be told here? To what gain?
Hey. This forum is the male equivalent of a perpetual gossip fest.
Asking for advice here is tantamount to saying "Hi, I'm here know, how
are you doing?"
:)
Puckdropper wrote:
> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on the
> concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by today, I
> noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac oozing out of
> the can.
>
> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
> in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
> rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
> 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
> spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
> cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>
> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
> 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>
> I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
> with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
>
> Puckdropper
>
Was the metal etched or rusted around the leak? If so, sounds like an
external chemical reaction rather than a flawed can.
--
G.W. Ross
It's amazing how much mature wisdom
resembles being too tired.
"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/22/2012 4:01 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>> On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>>>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>>>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>>>> shellac
>>>> oozing out of the can.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>>>
>>> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> the battery thing is an old OLD wives tale.
>>
> Yes and no.
>
> If there is any hint of salts going down the side of a battery it will
> kill the battery.
>
> Also the problem with concrete and batteries is usually cold winter
> floors.. Batteries don't like the cold in general, but usually revive if
> you keep them charged. On the other hand if the battery runs down you get
> dendrites which can short a battery... Soooo it is a wives tale, but
> partially true, just for the wrong reason.
>
> do it in Florida, and it's not likekly to hurt the battery.
> In Wisconsin, it can...
lived in high country 13 years. parked outside. Minus 35 Fahrenheit nights.
never had a battery failure. WW
On 7/22/2012 6:26 PM, WW wrote:
> "tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 7/22/2012 4:01 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>>>>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>>>>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>>>>> shellac
>>>>> oozing out of the can.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>>>>
>>>> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> the battery thing is an old OLD wives tale.
>>>
>> Yes and no.
>>
>> If there is any hint of salts going down the side of a battery it will
>> kill the battery.
>>
>> Also the problem with concrete and batteries is usually cold winter
>> floors.. Batteries don't like the cold in general, but usually revive if
>> you keep them charged. On the other hand if the battery runs down you get
>> dendrites which can short a battery... Soooo it is a wives tale, but
>> partially true, just for the wrong reason.
>>
>> do it in Florida, and it's not likekly to hurt the battery.
>> In Wisconsin, it can...
>
> lived in high country 13 years. parked outside. Minus 35 Fahrenheit nights.
> never had a battery failure. WW
>
>
We're not talking 1 night. We're talking unused for a period of time.
I agree a fully charged battery won't have the problem, but batteries
lose s percent of their charge daily depending on the battery type the
percent can be small... Lithium, to 10% Nicad... The lead acid batteries
depending on the quality vary quite a lot...
You leave your vehichle out for a month and let see what happens.
I once had a can of beer, or 2 or 3, can't recall, that FAILED to induce en=
ough machoism, in me, for me to properly/adequately hold an open quart can =
of Sealcoat, as I walked across the shop, resulting in the Sealcoat having =
slipped from my grasp onto and all over the immediate shop floor. Some "ca=
ns" can, indeed, fail.
100 degree temps with 20% humidity sound comfortable, compared to 100 degre=
e temps with 85% and/or above humidity.
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:26:13 -0600, "WW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>lived in high country 13 years. parked outside. Minus 35 Fahrenheit nights.
>never had a battery failure. WW
>
A properly sized battery in good condition is OK. I've had problems
with older batteries in the cold. Many years ago I had a '64 Karmen
Ghia that we converted to 12 volt. (Used a Chevy alternator with a
counter bored shaft to go on the generator shaft) Battery was
marginal so I took it in the house every night until I got a new one.
On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>> shellac
>> oozing out of the can.
> ------------------------------
> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>
> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>
> Lew
>
>
> Lew
>
>
>
the battery thing is an old OLD wives tale.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
On 7/22/2012 9:19 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on the
> concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by today, I
> noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac oozing out of
> the can.
>
> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
> in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
> rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
> 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
> spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
> cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>
> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
> 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>
> I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
> with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
>
> Puckdropper
>
In years past metal cans were used with everything so to speak. As more
water based products have been introduced the cans began to rust
internally hence you now see a lot of the plastic cans with metal tops.
I know you said shellac but if it is water clean up, it has water in the
product.
On 7/22/2012 9:19 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
...
> After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
> in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
> rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
> 3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
> spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
> cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>
> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
> 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
Sure, although a few months is a little short. It's possible there was
a material flaw in the can and the floor had little if anything to do
with it. OTOH, there could have been something outgassing from a spill
that exacerbated the problem, too. Who knows??? "Stuff happens..."
> I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
> with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
...
W/ shellac, I don't see any problem if you don't. :) It might indeed
be _a_good_thing_ (tm) to cover up whatever it was that spilled
(presuming something did)...
--
On 7/22/2012 10:43 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
...
>>> Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
>>> 100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>
> Only can failures I've had were external causes. Considering where
> you had it and the proximity of other chemicals, I'd think it was an
> external cause, not a bad can.
I'm only saying it's possible there was a weak point exacerbated by the
external environment...
--
On 22 Jul 2012 14:19:04 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on the
>concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by today, I
>noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be shellac oozing out of
>the can.
>
>After transfering the contents to another can, it was easy to see the hole
>in the bottom of the can. It was a small hole about an inch in from the
>rim. In the area where the product was leaking, there was an approximately
>3/4"x1/2" depression in the concrete. I'm thinking some chemical was
>spilled there (it's near a sink, so who knows? It's also near the garbage
>cans where bags of pool shock are disposed of.) and the can failed.
>
>Just to be sure, has anyone else seen a can fail in this manner? We've had
>100F heat with 20% humidity for the last month.
>
>I've cleaned up the affected area on the floor as best I can. Any problems
>with just leaving what didn't wipe up on the concrete?
Yes. Cans sitting on the concrete floors pick up the condensation
from the floor and it immediately promotes rust. Put all steel cans
on wood shelving to insulate them. Shelves are always less wet than
concrete.
--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:26:13 -0600, "WW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 7/22/2012 4:01 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
>>> On 7/22/2012 1:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I had a gallon can of the Zinsser Sanding Sealer shellac sitting on
>>>>> the concrete garage floor for several months. As I was walking by
>>>>> today, I noticed a goo around the can and it turned out to be
>>>>> shellac
>>>>> oozing out of the can.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> I learned a log time ago NOT to keep metal cans on concrete floors.
>>>>
>>>> Don't store wet cell batteries directly on concrete floors either.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> the battery thing is an old OLD wives tale.
>>>
>> Yes and no.
>>
>> If there is any hint of salts going down the side of a battery it will
>> kill the battery.
It will, then, in a car, too. The battery is typically sitting in a metal
battery holder.
>> Also the problem with concrete and batteries is usually cold winter
>> floors.. Batteries don't like the cold in general, but usually revive if
>> you keep them charged. On the other hand if the battery runs down you get
>> dendrites which can short a battery... Soooo it is a wives tale, but
>> partially true, just for the wrong reason.
>>
>> do it in Florida, and it's not likekly to hurt the battery.
>> In Wisconsin, it can...
It's not the temperature but the delta temperature from top to bottom. ..or
so the theory goes. It's really not good to leave lead-acid batteries off
charge for long periods. They'd rather be constantly "float" charged.
>lived in high country 13 years. parked outside. Minus 35 Fahrenheit nights.
>never had a battery failure. WW
>
It's not the cold that kills batteries, rather heat. You just don't need the
capacity until it gets cold. My car batteries lasted eight years in the North
- never failed to start the cars. The first summer in the South killed 'em
both.
On 22 Jul 2012 23:09:31 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>"G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Was the metal etched or rusted around the leak? If so, sounds like an
>> external chemical reaction rather than a flawed can.
>>
>
>The area around the leak was rusted, it was about 1/8-3/16" in diameter.
>Everything else on the bottom of the can is intact and still shiny.
>
>Since it was so localized, I'm wondering if it might be a combination of a
>flaw in the metal (to allow the reaction to start) and an external chemical
>reaction (that did the bulk of the work).
...or a scratch through the cladding in that spot.