OT - What the hell are we coming to?

LDosser wrote:

> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:3eca48cc-4d89-4324-a84f-e0709f76285b@t17g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
> silliness..
>
> mind the wrap.
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-
selling-goldfish.html
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> this one is almost as good!
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262305/Council-need-JCB-dumped-
mattress.html
>
> brits have fallen off the edge ...

Yep, the formerly Great Britain is done, stick a fork in it.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

Robatoy wrote:

> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
> silliness..
>
> mind the wrap.
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-
selling-goldfish.html

That, along with the stories about grocers not even being able to give
away "substandard -- i.e., too small but still good and edible" fruit just
give evidence to the fact that Great Britain is done.


--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

CW wrote:

>
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> RonB wrote:
>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>> live here:
>>>
>>>
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1
>>
>> Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state? Check
>> at the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some ideas on
>> how to deal with these miscreants.
>>
> This was the reason for the Patriot Guard. Unfortunately, they can't be
> everywhere.

They have done a fine job when they are able to be there. While no one
should dispute another's right to free religious expression, the expression
this nutty bunch has chosen is beyond the pale in terms of tasteless, crass,
and downright evil. You don't win people to your cause by antagonizing
them.

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>> Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.
> --------------------------------------
>
> Sounds like a great idea and a way to vent frustration; however, if you
> only have one term politicians in power, then you are left with the civil
> servants and lobbyists who know how the gov't operates.
>
> Scary.
>
> Lew

Yup, just when the elected officials have learned their jobs they have to
leave, but the unelected officials are there to run things as they
please--that's the problem with term limits. The British comedy series Yes
Minister does a good job of getting laughs out of that situation.

Steve wrote:

> On 2010-04-02 01:33:03 -0400, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Oh, BTW, comedy gold:
>
> Oh, yeah, Hep C _IS_ comedy gold.

If he is suffering from a malady that makes him incompetent to serve in
such a position, he should step down. He wouldn't be allowed to pilot an
airplane, a position in which he could only kill or maim 150 people, nor
would he be allowed to operate heavy construction equipment that could kill
a few dozens at a time or commercial truck driver where he may only kill a
few people. But be a legislator and make decisions affecting the lives of
330 million people? Sure! No problem!


--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

"Robatoy" wrote:

> MONTCOAL W.V. — Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka,
> Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to convey
> the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead was a
> result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
> threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a statement
> from the Church.
-----------------------------------------
Some of those Church folks just might end up going up some of those
"hollers" and not coming back.

Gets a little dark at night in "West By God" when the moon's not out.

Lew

In article <[email protected]>, Doug Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 4/3/2010 10:39 PM, DanG wrote:
> >> An interesting article. One question I have - wasn't the family
> >> warned of a potential demonstration before the service? It sounds
> >> like this is a fairly normal circumstance at this particular
> >> church.
> >>
> >> It goes against every thing I believe in. I do believe in freedom
> >> of speech, but a religious ceremony, especially a funeral, should
> >> be a hallowed situation. I can't believe any church would condone
> >> this type of activity. It becomes doubly repugnant at a military
> >> man's funeral service.
> >
> >It is idiots like these whose actions result in bad legislation intended
> >to address breaches of courtesy that should not have occurred and that
> >if they occurred should have been handled by those present, preferably
> >with the aid of tar and feathers. However remonstrating forcibly with
> >the terminally discourteous is now likely to land you in jail.
> >
> Right. IMO the best way to deal with this would be legislation that
> explicitly
> exempts the appropriate response from prosecution for assault and battery.

I'm not a US citizen, but I suspect that would require a constitutional
amendment.

As abhorrent as Phelps and his cult is, the right to free speech
applies as long as they are on public property.

What happened in Canada was that were denied entry, a right any
sovereign nation has. They weren't denied the right to free speech.

Free speech doesn't mean "speech that I don't find offensive".

In article <[email protected]>, Doug Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm not proposing that the law should restrict in any way their right to say
> whatever they want, wherever or whenever they want to. I'm just saying that if
> what they say is grossly offensive, they should not expect the law to shield
> them from a well-deserved beating at the hands of those whom they offended.

Gotcha.

Somebody gets to decide what speech is offensive, but that in no way
limits free speech.

And you see no problem with that.

This will be my final post on this thread. It hits the kill-file now.

On Apr 1, 11:49=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:26:56 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
(SNIP)
>
>
>
> It happened here, too. =A0The great masses of perfectly good food (which
> are tossed into dumpsters nationwide on a daily basis) are banned from
> harvest by the homeless, who "might get food poisoning from it." =A0Of
> course, if they don't get it, they'll die, but that's not the fault of
> the Department of Health, so they claim.
>
> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
> good grains) so the prices stabilize. =A0Screw the starving.
>
Some years back in NY state, a friend killed a doe by mistake during
deer season. We did the right thing, field dressed it, hauled it out
and reported to the game warden. When I was a little younger, deer
siezed by the warden were taken to orphanages and other charitable
care places, but he told us as far as he personally was concerned, we
could keep it(but not by law of course). His reason was that they
could no longer give the meat to ANY place that received state or
federal government aid because the venison was not "inspected". The
only place he could take it was the county jail, and their meat locker
was already stuffed to overflowing with siezed venison.

IDIOCY!

Norm

On Apr 3, 12:47=A0am, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:

[snipped for brevity]

> the congresswoman who,when being shown video from
> the Mars Rover asked the NASA folks if it was going to go over and take
> pictures of the flag that the astronauts had planted in 1969 are, if not
> making, voting on policies that impact all citizens of the country. =A0We
> deserve better than that.
>

a) That is some funny.....

b) Yes, you do deserve better than that.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:36:05 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>And in the 80s, several promising experimental treatments for HIV/AIDS were
>never tested on human volunteers because the FDA feared it would harm them ---
>Hellooooooo!! They're dying already! How is the treatment going to make that
>worse?

Sorry, but there's many things that can be worse. You're not
considering possible alternatives. Such things as hastening their
deaths, the possibility of dying in great discomfort and finally,
possible medical complications down the road.

Thalidomide comes to mind when the medical industry has rushed a
treatment into production.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:35:46 -0400, the infamous willshak
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>RonB wrote the following:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1
>>
>
>
>I have no answers that don't involve violence.

What, like substituting live ammo in the 21 Baptist shoo^H^H^H^Halute?

--
May those who love us, love us;
And may those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts;
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--old Gaelic blessing

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:52:22 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>
>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>> Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.
>--------------------------------------
>
>Sounds like a great idea and a way to vent frustration; however, if
>you only have one term politicians in power, then you are left with
>the civil servants and lobbyists who know how the gov't operates.
>
>Scary.

Are you serious, Lew? You don't think that reducing corruption in our
gov't would be a good thing? Oh, wait. I forgot about your views on
politics. Never mind.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Mar 31, 9:03=A0pm, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:3eca48cc-4d89-4324-a84f-e0709f76285b@t17g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> > live here:
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
> silliness..
>
> mind the wrap.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tag...
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-- --------------------------
> this one is almost as good!
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262305/Council-need-JCB-dump...
>
> brits have fallen off the edge ...

LOL! Yup...

In article <[email protected]>, Chris
Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:

> The Canadian government stopped some of them from crossing the border to
> picket at a murdered man's funeral. I suspect it was under suspicion of
> hate speech or something--which is interesting because under other
> circumstances those hate speech laws have a lot of people incensed that
> they aren't allowed to say whatever they like.

You may be confusing criminal hate speech laws with the kangaroo court,
quasi-legal, government pays for complaintant but not defendant,
so-called "human rights commissions" where the slogan is "Male and
white? You're never right!"

The westboro loons were turned away under federal law, not any HR
legislation.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:27:54 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:22:54 -0500, the infamous Swingman
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>On 3/31/2010 3:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the problem? Bill O'Reilly already offered to pay the legal
>>>> bills. Because he cares dontchaknow....
>>>
>>>And a damn fine, human, gesture on his part.
>>
>> Precisely. Conservatives don't do that against a church very often.
>>
>
> Phelps's group's resemblance to a church is purely artificial and
>coincidental.

Ditto the Reverends Jesse Jackson, Farrakhan, Wright, and thousands of
other "preachers" and their churches. But the gov't recognizes them,
as do political groups, because of their power. It truly sucks.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:26:56 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>Robatoy wrote:
>
>> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>> live here:
>>>
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>>
>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
>> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
>> silliness..
>>
>> mind the wrap.
>>
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-
>selling-goldfish.html
>
> That, along with the stories about grocers not even being able to give
>away "substandard -- i.e., too small but still good and edible" fruit just
>give evidence to the fact that Great Britain is done.

It happened here, too. The great masses of perfectly good food (which
are tossed into dumpsters nationwide on a daily basis) are banned from
harvest by the homeless, who "might get food poisoning from it." Of
course, if they don't get it, they'll die, but that's not the fault of
the Department of Health, so they claim.

And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Mar 31, 2:12=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...

LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
silliness..

mind the wrap.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-se=
lling-goldfish.html

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:23:51 -0400, the infamous "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 3/31/2010 10:56 PM, Nonny wrote:
>>
>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
>>> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
>>> silliness..
>>>
>>
>> It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no person
>> standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents. Send the message
>> to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon to be history.
>>
>> Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected officials.
>
>I fear that it's approaching time to water the tree.

I used to fear it. Now I'm tiring of waiting for it to happen.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:12:06 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>live here:
>
>http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1


This is a sad commentary on what constitutes free speach when an idiot
can equate homersexuality with being in the military and rejoice in a
soldier's death.

You folks need to lobby your state and federal reps to reinstate the
burning at the stake laws just for these kinds of brain dead
insensitive fuck bunnies. There should be more shooting "accidents"
too show your freedom of guns laws also work.

My heart goes out to anyone who has to endure loudmouth gutless
cowards at funerals.

P

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

"RonB" wrote:

> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1

---------------------------------------------
Need to find a way to shut down their access to money, banking, and
commerce in general.

No access to money, no way to spread their hate.

Lew

"Larry Jaques" wrote:

> Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.
--------------------------------------

Sounds like a great idea and a way to vent frustration; however, if
you only have one term politicians in power, then you are left with
the civil servants and lobbyists who know how the gov't operates.

Scary.

Lew

"LDosser" wrote:

> The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than
> the other stuff. Almost Zero dust.
----------------------------------------

Shades of the two holer out back equipped with red and white corn
cobs.

Used a red cob followed by a white cob to see if you needed to use
another red cob.

Lew

"Morris Dovey" wrote:
>
> One of my neighbors in Minnesota built a HUGE quonset-type building
> for storing corn. If the market was flooded, he unloaded it into the
> storage building to sell when the market was up. From what the other
> neighbors said, it seemed to work quite well for him. IIRC, there
> wasn't any government funding involved.
-------------------------------------------
Still remember the rows of corrigated steel silos housing grain crops
after WWII.

Silos and grain in them were the result of "Price Supports" for
agriculture.

The idea was to hold the grain for better prices, but the just built
more silos the next year.

Also picked potatoes that were part of the "Price Supports" for
agriculture program.

Gov't would buy spuds at a supported price, then dye them purple, and
sell them as hog feed for $0.01/lb.

That was over 60 years ago and not a whole lot has changed when it
comes to gov't involvement in the agriculture business.

Lew

"LDosser" wrote:

> Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog,
> newspaper, leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...
----------------------
I was probably 6-7 years old when my Dad told me that one.

It was about the same time he pointed out a round barn as we were
driving and told me a guy had killed himself in that barn.

Seems the guy ran himself to death looking for a corner where he could
take a pee.

Lew

"Swingman" wrote:

> And there was Dr. Gene Scott, the TV preacher on late night years
> ago, who smoked Cuban cigars, had a blues band, and took donations
> for his Tennessee Walking Horse breeding fees.
=========================

Today it's his daughter's gig.

Lew

"LDosser" wrote:

> She the blond with the long pinstripe coat?
-------------------------------------------
Around here it's long black locks, but then only her hairdresser knows
for sure.

Haven't seen the P/S coat, YET.

Lew

On 2010-03-31 23:23:51 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> said:

> I fear that it's approaching time to water the tree.

I believe the quote is "manure the tree."

On 2010-04-02 01:33:03 -0400, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> said:

> Oh, BTW, comedy gold:

Oh, yeah, Hep C _IS_ comedy gold.

"Doug Miller" wrote:

> Right. IMO the best way to deal with this would be legislation that
> explicitly
> exempts the appropriate response from prosecution for assault and
> battery.
------------------------------------------
Go for the money.

Turn the gov't audit folks loose.

IRS, RICO, etc.

Force these clowns to spend themselves into oblivion defending
themselves.

Seek legal methods to seize their assets, etc, etc.

Lew

In article
<[email protected]>,
RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:

> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1

I am a Christian.

I am absolutly gob-smacked and appalled!

I am also very angry.

Whatever one's views on homosexual acts those guys are out there, with
ours from the UK, fighting one of the greatest menaces humanity has faced
for a long time - militant moslem extremism.

On 04/04/2010 07:51 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

> I'm not proposing to shut them up. But if you say something deserving of a
> punch in the snoot, you shouldn't be surprised -- nor should you expect
> protection of the law -- when someone punches you in the snoot.

Who decides what deserves a punch in the snoot?

If a little guy says something (maybe even true) that a big guy finds
offensive, the big guy is allowed to punch him in the snoot without
legal repercussions?

You don't think this will have a chilling effect? Isn't this "might
makes right" by another name?

Chris

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 14:38:25 -0600, the infamous Chris Friesen
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 04/01/2010 10:49 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
>> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.
>
>I'm curious what you think should be done. Suppose there's enough grain
>flooding the markets that prices are low and nobody will make money. Do we:
>
>1) let the farmers all lose money, forcing the marginal ones out of business
>2) have the government pay the farmers to destroy grain and not plant so
>much
>3) have the government pay the farmers market rate for the grain, thus
>triggering sanctions from other countries because we're subsidizing our
>farmers
>
>If we pick option 3, then we also need to decide what to do with it. Do
>we give it away to poor people (depressing grain prices further and
>pissing off the remaining farmers)? Do we give it away to other countries?
>
>It's not a simple issue.

Why don't we 4) recategorize corn raised for fuel so it doesn't skew
the food prices?


>PS. Apparently you can now get corn-based cat litter and diapers. Freaky.

While the Mexican poor go hungry from the high corn prices set about
by the our government's adoption of the ghastly expensive ethanol fuel
thing, which pollutes the air more due to the reduced efficiency of
the vehicles it powers. That gov't is going to "fix" healthcare.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On 04/01/2010 04:41 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:

> One of my neighbors in Minnesota built a HUGE quonset-type building for
> storing corn. If the market was flooded, he unloaded it into the storage
> building to sell when the market was up. From what the other neighbors
> said, it seemed to work quite well for him. IIRC, there wasn't any
> government funding involved.
>
> You might consider adding that as option 4.

Fair enough...but that assumes you've got enough in the bank (or can
borrow enough) to tide you over until the market goes back up.

Chris

On Apr 9, 8:38=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 31, 2:12=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> > live here:
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> MONTCOAL W.V. =97 Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka,
> Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to convey
> the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead was a
> result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
> threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a statement
> from the Church.

The showed up in Blacksburg, VA the other day to celebrate the killing
of students there, because the world is tilting towards abortions,
homosexuality and similar choices.

So they get to Virginia Tech, all six--maybe it was seven--of the
family with their signs of hate. The sign carriers were mostly the
children under 10. Theyw ere met by something like 200 counter-
protesters.

Life's gettin' to be a bitch for the morons of the world, ain't it?

I look at the photos of these kids and their daddy, the Rev, and
wonder if they are their own cousins.

On Mar 31, 4:16=A0pm, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> RonB wrote:
> > Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> > live here:
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state? Check =
at
> the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some ideas on how t=
o
> deal with these miscreants.
>
Actually the Patriot Guard has done a pretty good job of keeping
themselves between the families and the lunatics. They offer their
services to the families and early on some of the families were
intimidated by them, but they do a good job of doing their thing in a
very respectful manner.

RonB.

RonB

On Mar 31, 11:26=A0pm, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 2:12=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> >> live here:
>
> >>http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm..=
.
>
> > LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
> > again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
> > silliness..
>
> > mind the wrap.
>
> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tag...
>
> selling-goldfish.html
>
> =A0 That, along with the stories about grocers not even being able to giv=
e
> away "substandard -- i.e., too small but still good and edible" fruit jus=
t
> give evidence to the fact that Great Britain is done. =A0
>
> --
>
> There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
>
> Rob Leatham

I watch with great interest what France is going to do with the No-
Veil legislation.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:22:54 -0500, the infamous Swingman
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 3/31/2010 3:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> What is the problem? Bill O'Reilly already offered to pay the legal
>> bills. Because he cares dontchaknow....
>
>And a damn fine, human, gesture on his part.

Precisely. Conservatives don't do that against a church very often.

--
May those who love us, love us;
And may those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts;
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--old Gaelic blessing

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:26:54 -0500, the infamous -MIKE-
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 4/1/10 10:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> While the Mexican poor go hungry from the high corn prices set about
>> by the our government's adoption of the ghastly expensive ethanol fuel
>> thing, which pollutes the air more due to the reduced efficiency of
>> the vehicles it powers. That gov't is going to "fix" healthcare.
>>
>
>I totally agree with you about the ethanol myth. It take more energy to
>make than it produces.
>
>However, the Mexican poor go hungry because of the Mexican government...
>it has very little to do with the US.
>
>Mexico is one of the richest countries on earth, due in part to their
>oil resources. The richest man on earth is a Mexican in Mexico.
>Unfortunately, Mexico is still very much a class society. You're born
>rich or poor and the Government cares very little about their own poor.
> They tell them if they don't like living in poverty, to go to "el
>Norte."
>
>Poor Mexicans are poor because of their own government's policies, not
>ours.

While much of what you stated is true, when the price of corn
skyrockets in Mexico and people actually die of starvation because of
a stupid policy our gov't has made, it's a pretty sad day. And since
neither gov't seems to care, that's the true shame of it.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On 4/2/2010 12:27 AM, Mark & Juanita wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:22:54 -0500, the infamous Swingman
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> On 3/31/2010 3:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the problem? Bill O'Reilly already offered to pay the legal
>>>> bills. Because he cares dontchaknow....
>>>
>>> And a damn fine, human, gesture on his part.
>>
>> Precisely. Conservatives don't do that against a church very often.
>>
>
> Phelps's group's resemblance to a church is purely artificial and
> coincidental.
>

There are two paths to great evil:

1) Work diligently to create the illusion that "evil" as a construct
doesn't even exist.

2) Hijack "good" and do evil deeds in it's name.

The cultural left has done 1) to a tee. The Phelpses of this world
have embraced 2).




--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RonB wrote:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1
>
> Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state? Check
> at the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some ideas on how
> to deal with these miscreants.
>
This was the reason for the Patriot Guard. Unfortunately, they can't be
everywhere.

On 04/01/2010 10:49 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.

I'm curious what you think should be done. Suppose there's enough grain
flooding the markets that prices are low and nobody will make money. Do we:

1) let the farmers all lose money, forcing the marginal ones out of business
2) have the government pay the farmers to destroy grain and not plant so
much
3) have the government pay the farmers market rate for the grain, thus
triggering sanctions from other countries because we're subsidizing our
farmers

If we pick option 3, then we also need to decide what to do with it. Do
we give it away to poor people (depressing grain prices further and
pissing off the remaining farmers)? Do we give it away to other countries?

It's not a simple issue.

Chris


PS. Apparently you can now get corn-based cat litter and diapers. Freaky.

"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these
> bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1

Where is Quantrill when you really need him?

--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'

-Mark Twain
.

Mark & Juanita wrote:
>>
>> The problem with congress critters is that they are like lawyers:
>> Yours is a nice guy and mine is a prince, but the rest of them are
>> thieves.
>
> Nope, I'm thinking it's gone past that for many people. It's gotten
> to the point where not a lot of people have the "mine is a prince"
> notion right now. Gonna be very ugly for incumbents come November;
> that is, if they get past the primaries.
>
> Oh, BTW, comedy gold:
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg&feature=player_embedded>
>
> Well, except for the fact that he, and people like him, just voted
> to take over 1/6 of the US economy and believe themselves to be
> superior to you in every way, thus qualified to run *your* life and
> oversee *your* health. Other than that, outrageously hilarious, you
> just can't make stuff like this up.

I think you may be right. Someone once said there was an intelligence
hierarchy.
* The really bright people became entrepreneurs.
* The above average folks became politicians.
* Everybody else was plebes, worker ants.

Now, with the economy in such straits, tens of millions of people have
become entrepreneurs (think "underground economy") and suddenly became much
smarter than the politicians.

This health care fiasco is going to be the gift that keeps on giving.
Several companies, so far, have tabulated several billion dollars in
unexpected expenses (AT&T, Verizon, John Deere, Caterpillar, etc.) which
means health benefits for their employees and retirees go down or prices go
up. As time goes on, expect similar revelations from other companies every
month as the green eye-shade types continue to add columns of numbers.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Robatoy" wrote:
>
>> MONTCOAL W.V. — Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in
>> Topeka,
>> Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to
>> convey
>> the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead
>> was a
>> result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
>> threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a
>> statement
>> from the Church.
> -----------------------------------------
> Some of those Church folks just might end up going up some of
> those "hollers" and not coming back.
>
> Gets a little dark at night in "West By God" when the moon's not
> out.

You can only poke a dog with a stick for so long until even the
sweetest dog will bite.

--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'

-Mark Twain
.

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:22:54 -0500, the infamous Swingman
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>On 3/31/2010 3:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> What is the problem? Bill O'Reilly already offered to pay the legal
>>> bills. Because he cares dontchaknow....
>>
>>And a damn fine, human, gesture on his part.
>
> Precisely. Conservatives don't do that against a church very often.
>

Phelps's group's resemblance to a church is purely artificial and
coincidental.


> --
> May those who love us, love us;
> And may those that don't love us,
> May God turn their hearts;
> And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
> may he turn their ankles,
> So we'll know them by their limping.
> --old Gaelic blessing

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

LDosser wrote:

> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "LDosser" wrote:
>>
>>> The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the
>>> other stuff. Almost Zero dust.
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>> Shades of the two holer out back equipped with red and white corn cobs.
>>
>> Used a red cob followed by a white cob to see if you needed to use
>> another red cob.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
> Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog,
> newspaper, leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...
>

OK, I'm not getting the volcanic ash concept.

> Cats only get the one shade! :()

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

HeyBub wrote:

> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>> It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no
>>> person standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents.
>>> Send the message to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon
>>> to be history.
>>>
>>> Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected
>>> officials.
>>
>> Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.
>
> The problem with congress critters is that they are like lawyers: Yours is
> a nice guy and mine is a prince, but the rest of them are thieves.

Nope, I'm thinking it's gone past that for many people. It's gotten to
the point where not a lot of people have the "mine is a prince" notion right
now. Gonna be very ugly for incumbents come November; that is, if they get
past the primaries.

Oh, BTW, comedy gold:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg&feature=player_embedded>

Well, except for the fact that he, and people like him, just voted to take
over 1/6 of the US economy and believe themselves to be superior to you in
every way, thus qualified to run *your* life and oversee *your* health.
Other than that, outrageously hilarious, you just can't make stuff like this
up.


--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

RonB wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1

Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state? Check at
the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some ideas on how to
deal with these miscreants.

I can see it now... A couple of deuce-and-a-halfs, loaded with folks bearing
tattoos, who jump off, take care of business, and drive off to the horizon.
This will be followed by free beer and barbecue while a hundred pretty girls
do a stip-tease and a good time will be had by all.

Except for a few, of course.

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote


>
> Regarding children, suppose a child (or adult for that matter) has a
> condition that costs $1 million a year to treat. Further, suppose the
> company has one million policy holders - and you're one of them. This
> child costs YOU about $1.20/year. Now suppose there are, oh, one hundred
> such children in dire straits. Your insurance premium just went up
> $120/year with no benefit to you (unless you are among the 0.00001% with
> an afflicted child).
>
> Now it's your turn: Explain to me how my (or your) insurance cost is going
> to go down if insurance companies MUST pay for pre-existing condtions or
> the prohibition of life-time caps. Seems to me if the insurance companies'
> payouts increase, the premiums paid must, of necessity, go up.

But there is a simple and easy fix. You just force everyone to buy
insurance and pay premiums.

LDosser wrote:

> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> LDosser wrote:
>>
>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "LDosser" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the
>>>>> other stuff. Almost Zero dust.
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Shades of the two holer out back equipped with red and white corn cobs.
>>>>
>>>> Used a red cob followed by a white cob to see if you needed to use
>>>> another red cob.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog,
>>> newspaper, leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...
>>>
>>
>> OK, I'm not getting the volcanic ash concept.
>
> Kinda like kitty litter, if you're in the right place with no other
> recourse.

Seems somewhat gritty. Bet one walks funny for a while afterwards.

>
> I suppose regular ash might work, but the volcanic stuff has more of a
> cachet.
>
>>
>>> Cats only get the one shade! :()
>>
>> --
>>
>> There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
>>
>> Rob Leatham
>>

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I fear that it's approaching time to water the tree.

Sounds a bit like the Hutaree whackos.

"Now it's time to strike and take our nation back so we will be free of
tyranny," Stone, 44, of Clayton, Mich., says on the recording played in
court. "The war will come whether we are ready or not."


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/03/28/national/a165434D20.DTL

willshak <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> HeyBub wrote the following:
>> RonB wrote:
>>
>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>> live here:
>>>
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm
>>> l?hpt=T1
>>>
>>
>> Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state?
>> Check at the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some
>> ideas on how to deal with these miscreants.
>>
>> I can see it now... A couple of deuce-and-a-halfs, loaded with folks
>> bearing tattoos, who jump off, take care of business, and drive off
>> to the horizon. This will be followed by free beer and barbecue while
>> a hundred pretty girls do a stip-tease and a good time will be had by
>> all.
>>
>> Except for a few, of course.
>
> That is more peaceful than my thoughts about a well placed IED. :-)

And a well-placed IUD would have prevented anyone from having to ever see
Hey Bub's posts.

Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no
>> person standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents.
>> Send the message to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon
>> to be history.
>>
>> Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected
>> officials.
>
> Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.

The problem with congress critters is that they are like lawyers: Yours is a
nice guy and mine is a prince, but the rest of them are thieves.

"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough,
> and then
> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us
> in
> silliness..
>

It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no
person standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents.
Send the message to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon
to be history.

Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected
officials.


--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'

-Mark Twain
.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Well, except for the fact that he, and people like him, just voted to
> take
> over 1/6 of the US economy and believe themselves to be superior to you in
> every way, thus qualified to run *your* life and oversee *your* health.

It must save you a lot of time, reducing everything to bumper-sticker
slogans like that.

You don't want some govt. bureaucrat meddling in your health care, but
apparently insurance industry bureaucrats deciding which tests your doctor
can order, which drugs he can prescribe, or in some cases even whether
you'll have insurance at all--that's okay.

I see the insurance industry weasels were claiming there was a loophole in
the new law that would allow them to go on denying coverage to children with
pre-existing conditions until 2014, but upon reflection (and a warning from
the HHS Secretary) they've decided to cover those children--how magnanimous
of them. Kids with health insurance coverage--good thing, or bad thing?
Gee, that's a real puzzler, isn't it?

On Apr 9, 8:38=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 31, 2:12=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> > live here:
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> MONTCOAL W.V. =97 Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka,
> Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to convey
> the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead was a
> result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
> threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a statement
> from the Church.

http://www.fark.com/cgi/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3D5148987

On Mar 31, 2:12=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...

MONTCOAL W.V. =97 Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka,
Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to convey
the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead was a
result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a statement
from the Church.

On 4/5/2010 1:19 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 04/04/2010 07:51 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not proposing to shut them up. But if you say something deserving of a
>>> punch in the snoot, you shouldn't be surprised -- nor should you expect
>>> protection of the law -- when someone punches you in the snoot.
>>
>> Who decides what deserves a punch in the snoot?
>
> IMO, ideally, a jury.
>>
>> If a little guy says something (maybe even true) that a big guy finds
>> offensive, the big guy is allowed to punch him in the snoot without
>> legal repercussions?
>
> The law used to recognize the concept of "fighting words". I think it still
> should.
>>
>> You don't think this will have a chilling effect? Isn't this "might
>> makes right" by another name?
>
> My state (Indiana) is frequently made sport of as being "backward". Some of
> that, I admit, is deserved. But when our current state Constitution was
> written, 160 years ago, they managed to get most things right, and some of
> them IMO a little better than in the national Constitution. Here's one:
>
> "No law shall be passed, restraining the free interchange of thought and
> opinion, or restricting the right to speak, write, or print, freely, on any
> subject whatever: but for the abuse of that right, every person shall be
> responsible." [Constitution of the State of Indiana, Article I, Section 9]
>
> The members of the Westboro Baptist "Church" are, IMHO, grossly abusing their
> right to free speech. And for that abuse, they should be held responsible.


I think we're all over-analyzing this. Free speech has boundaries and these
boundaries are well established as a matter of law:

- Speech may not be used to constitute an act of threat or force. That's why
yelling "Fire" inappropriately in a crowded theater is not protected speech.
That's why threatening someone's life - even if you don't do it - can be
considered "forceful" if you have the means to carry out your threat.

- The right to free expression does not carry with it the right to make other people
listen to you or to otherwise disturb the peace. That's why it's OK for
the gummint to require some level of decorum and order during, say, a protest
march. The speech itself is protected, but the environment in which the speech
is conducted must (or should, anyway) be lawful. Just because some ugly hippie
chick wants to run naked in the street to protest whatever the cause-of-the-moment
might be, doesn't mean she gets to do so.

It is under this second constraint that the Phelps of the world should be arrested,
prosecuted, found guilty, fined out of existence, and sent to jail for awhile. A funeral
is a private event with private participants. Phelps and the rest of his sewage
are free to speak their piece BUT not if they are invading private property and/or
disturbing such a private event.

Unfortunately, these people are untouchable for a number of reasons: 1) Our
entire notion of rights balanced with responsibilities to use those right
appropriately has more-or-less vanished. 2) The political right is too
chicken to act in such matters because they'll be accused of attempting
to suppress anti-war/anti-warrior speech. 3) The left - as usual- is
useless and is only too happy to stand by, hiding behind a phony understanding
of free speech - because they think Phelps and Co. discredit the right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On Apr 2, 1:25=A0am, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > --
> > It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
> > intelligent,
> > but the one most responsive to change.
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-- Charles
> > Darwin
>
> He could just as well have said "Feets, don't fail me now!"

(Lowell George)

On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 10:52:14 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Nahmie
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On Apr 1, 11:49 am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:26:56 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>
>(SNIP)
>>
>>
>>
>> It happened here, too.  The great masses of perfectly good food (which
>> are tossed into dumpsters nationwide on a daily basis) are banned from
>> harvest by the homeless, who "might get food poisoning from it."  Of
>> course, if they don't get it, they'll die, but that's not the fault of
>> the Department of Health, so they claim.
>>
>> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
>> good grains) so the prices stabilize.  Screw the starving.
>>
>Some years back in NY state, a friend killed a doe by mistake during
>deer season. We did the right thing, field dressed it, hauled it out
>and reported to the game warden. When I was a little younger, deer
>siezed by the warden were taken to orphanages and other charitable
>care places, but he told us as far as he personally was concerned, we
>could keep it(but not by law of course). His reason was that they
>could no longer give the meat to ANY place that received state or
>federal government aid because the venison was not "inspected". The
>only place he could take it was the county jail, and their meat locker
>was already stuffed to overflowing with siezed venison.
>
>IDIOCY!

Kin ewe say "Speaking Weasels"? I knew you could. <sigh>

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Apr 12, 8:10=A0am, Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 9, 8:38=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 31, 2:12=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> > > live here:
>
> > >http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm.=
..
>
> > MONTCOAL W.V. =97 Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka,
> > Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to convey
> > the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead was a
> > result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
> > threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a statement
> > from the Church.
>
> The showed up in Blacksburg, VA the other day to celebrate the killing
> of students there, because the world is tilting towards abortions,
> homosexuality and similar choices.
>
> So they get to Virginia Tech, all six--maybe it was seven--of the
> family with their signs of hate. The sign carriers were mostly the
> children under 10. Theyw ere met by something like 200 counter-
> protesters.
>
> Life's gettin' to be a bitch for the morons of the world, ain't it?
>
> I look at the photos of these kids and their daddy, the Rev, and
> wonder if they are their own cousins.

Somebody ELSE might sleep with them ????

Doubt it....

On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:25:25 -0400, the infamous "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 4/3/2010 9:46 PM, Steve wrote:
>> On 2010-03-31 23:23:51 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> said:
>>
>>> I fear that it's approaching time to water the tree.
>>
>> I believe the quote is "manure the tree."
>
>Nope.

Nope: Jefferson wrote "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time
to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural
manure." It's most commonly cited as "watered", though.

Here's the link for the quote:
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/105.html

Yep, 'bout that time.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:25:20 -0700, the infamous "LDosser"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> --
>> It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
>> intelligent,
>> but the one most responsive to change.
>> -- Charles
>> Darwin
>
>He could just as well have said "Feets, don't fail me now!"

Twue.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

In news:[email protected],
Larry Jaques <[email protected]>spewed forth:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:26:56 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 31, 2:12Â pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>>> live here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>>>
>>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and
>>> then again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of
>>> us in silliness..
>>>
>>> mind the wrap.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-
>>> selling-goldfish.html
>>
>> That, along with the stories about grocers not even being able to
>> give away "substandard -- i.e., too small but still good and edible"
>> fruit just give evidence to the fact that Great Britain is done.
>
> It happened here, too. The great masses of perfectly good food (which
> are tossed into dumpsters nationwide on a daily basis) are banned from
> harvest by the homeless, who "might get food poisoning from it." Of
> course, if they don't get it, they'll die, but that's not the fault of
> the Department of Health, so they claim.
>
> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.

And these are the ones that are going to give us healthcare<UGH>

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>>
>> Regarding children, suppose a child (or adult for that matter) has a
>> condition that costs $1 million a year to treat. Further, suppose the
>> company has one million policy holders - and you're one of them. This
>> child costs YOU about $1.20/year. Now suppose there are, oh, one
>> hundred such children in dire straits. Your insurance premium just
>> went up $120/year with no benefit to you (unless you are among the
>> 0.00001% with an afflicted child).
>>
>> Now it's your turn: Explain to me how my (or your) insurance cost is
>> going to go down if insurance companies MUST pay for pre-existing
>> condtions or the prohibition of life-time caps. Seems to me if the
>> insurance companies' payouts increase, the premiums paid must, of
>> necessity, go up.
>
> But there is a simple and easy fix. You just force everyone to buy
> insurance and pay premiums.

But if I, or you, have chosen to do without insurance or self-insure, our
rates will go up. About 10% of the population are in this group, so, for
sure, the rates for 10% of the population will increase.

Can you conjure up another permutation?

On Mar 31, 3:46=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:12:06 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> >live here:
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> This is a sad commentary on what constitutes free speach when an idiot
> can equate homersexuality with being in the military and rejoice in a
> soldier's death. =A0 =A0
>
> You folks need to lobby your state and federal reps to reinstate the
> burning at the stake laws just for these kinds of brain dead
> insensitive fuck bunnies. =A0 =A0There should be more shooting "accidents=
"
> too show your freedom of guns laws also work.
>
> My heart goes out to anyone who has to endure loudmouth gutless
> cowards at funerals.
>
> P =A0
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

What is the problem? Bill O'Reilly already offered to pay the legal
bills. Because he cares dontchaknow....

"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1


Well he was being insensitive to the $#%^#%# ing protesters rights....
Those are potential votes, don't you know.

Apparently the fact that many hurtinf his feelings is OK. Him hurting many
feelings is not OK.

Right or wrong those with the loudest voices get the politiions and law
makers attention.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:33:03 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>HeyBub wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no
>>>> person standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents.
>>>> Send the message to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon
>>>> to be history.
>>>>
>>>> Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected
>>>> officials.
>>>
>>> Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.
>>
>> The problem with congress critters is that they are like lawyers: Yours is
>> a nice guy and mine is a prince, but the rest of them are thieves.
>
> Nope, I'm thinking it's gone past that for many people. It's gotten to
>the point where not a lot of people have the "mine is a prince" notion right
>now. Gonna be very ugly for incumbents come November; that is, if they get
>past the primaries.
>
> Oh, BTW, comedy gold:
><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg&feature=player_embedded>
>
> Well, except for the fact that he, and people like him, just voted to take
>over 1/6 of the US economy and believe themselves to be superior to you in
>every way, thus qualified to run *your* life and oversee *your* health.
>Other than that, outrageously hilarious, you just can't make stuff like this
>up.

OMFG! This is the Democrats' "best and brightest", serving our
country, eh? Capsize!

[Stop the world. I want to get off.]

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:44:07 -0700, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Been lucky that way. All three of ours are pretty laid back when it comes to
>litter. Food, OTOH ...

There, I've been really lucky. My little girl is the most problem free
cat I've ever had. She eats kibble, drinks water and that's it. I've
tried several canned and packaged varieties of moist cat food and
she's just not interested.

As far as the litter goes, not once in five years I've had her has she
not used the litter box. I'm not even remotely interested in taking a
chance with some other brand, even if it is biodegradable.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Well he was being insensitive to the $#%^#%# ing protesters rights....
> Those are potential votes, don't you know.
>
> Apparently the fact that many hurtinf his feelings is OK. Him hurting many
> feelings is not OK.
>
> Right or wrong those with the loudest voices get the politiions and law
> makers attention.
>

I wonder how much attention a few thousand veterans would get if
they picketed and protested outside the church and carried signs
saying "You're going to hell," "God hates you" and "Thank God for
dead fundamentalists"? OTOH they would be at risk of being sued
by the church for violating their religious rights.

Maybe picket/protest the court building(s)?
Art

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3eca48cc-4d89-4324-a84f-e0709f76285b@t17g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...

LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
silliness..

mind the wrap.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-selling-goldfish.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this one is almost as good!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262305/Council-need-JCB-dumped-mattress.html

brits have fallen off the edge ...

On 3/31/2010 10:56 PM, Nonny wrote:
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
>> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
>> silliness..
>>
>
> It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no person
> standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents. Send the message
> to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon to be history.
>
> Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected officials.

I fear that it's approaching time to water the tree.

On 3/31/2010 5:35 PM, willshak wrote:
> RonB wrote the following:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1
>>
>
>
> I have no answers that don't involve violence.
> Perhaps we need a federal law to prevent such demonstrations at military
> funerals, either at the funeral site or anywhere near the cemetery, or
> within site of the .
> mourners.
> Talk to your state senators.

Freedom of speech has become freedom to harass. It was intended as a
check on the power of government, not as a license to harass people who
have little political power or influence on events.

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> CW wrote:
>
>>
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> RonB wrote:
>>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>>> live here:
>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1
>>>
>>> Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state? Check
>>> at the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some ideas on
>>> how to deal with these miscreants.
>>>
>> This was the reason for the Patriot Guard. Unfortunately, they can't be
>> everywhere.
>
> They have done a fine job when they are able to be there. While no one
> should dispute another's right to free religious expression, the
> expression
> this nutty bunch has chosen is beyond the pale in terms of tasteless,
> crass,
> and downright evil. You don't win people to your cause by antagonizing
> them.


For them, losing people IS winning says Susan Phelps:

["When the Supreme Court unanimously upholds the 4th Circuit, it's going to
put this country in a rage, and we will be expelled," she said. "But
whenever it was time for an epic event in the Bible, the thing that happened
right before is the prophets were removed from the land, and that's what's
going to happen to us. ... We're going to sprint to the end of this race."]

Of course, "expulsion" or "removal" may not take the form they are thinking
about ...

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:49:56 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:35:46 -0400, the infamous willshak
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>
>>I have no answers that don't involve violence.
>
> What, like substituting live ammo in the 21 Baptist shoo^H^H^H^Halute?
>
> --

Well, that's one issue we agree on :-).

That same group of assholes showed up in Spokane at, of all places, the
national ice skating championships a few years ago. I planned on
wrapping a few signs around appropriate necks, but my wife informed me
she didn't want to have to bail me out. I'm still sorry I listened to
her.

The championships returned to Spokane last year, but they didn't show up
- I guess they get more publicity from funerals.

But remember the Kansas Board of Education. Must be something in the
water.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>It happened here, too. The great masses of perfectly good food (which
>are tossed into dumpsters nationwide on a daily basis) are banned from
>harvest by the homeless, who "might get food poisoning from it." Of
>course, if they don't get it, they'll die, but that's not the fault of
>the Department of Health, so they claim.

And in the 80s, several promising experimental treatments for HIV/AIDS were
never tested on human volunteers because the FDA feared it would harm them ---
Hellooooooo!! They're dying already! How is the treatment going to make that
worse? There are effective treatments *now*, but I wonder how many lives could
have been at least extended if not saved, how much pain reduced if not
eliminated, if some of these treatments had been made available sooner.

"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 04/01/2010 10:49 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
>> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.
>
> I'm curious what you think should be done. Suppose there's enough grain
> flooding the markets that prices are low and nobody will make money. Do
> we:
>
> 1) let the farmers all lose money, forcing the marginal ones out of
> business
> 2) have the government pay the farmers to destroy grain and not plant so
> much
> 3) have the government pay the farmers market rate for the grain, thus
> triggering sanctions from other countries because we're subsidizing our
> farmers
>
> If we pick option 3, then we also need to decide what to do with it. Do
> we give it away to poor people (depressing grain prices further and
> pissing off the remaining farmers)? Do we give it away to other
> countries?
>
> It's not a simple issue.
>
> Chris
>
>
> PS. Apparently you can now get corn-based cat litter and diapers.
> Freaky.


The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the other
stuff. Almost Zero dust.

On 4/1/2010 3:38 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:
> On 04/01/2010 10:49 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
>> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.
>
> I'm curious what you think should be done. Suppose there's enough grain
> flooding the markets that prices are low and nobody will make money. Do we:
>
> 1) let the farmers all lose money, forcing the marginal ones out of business
> 2) have the government pay the farmers to destroy grain and not plant so
> much
> 3) have the government pay the farmers market rate for the grain, thus
> triggering sanctions from other countries because we're subsidizing our
> farmers
>
> If we pick option 3, then we also need to decide what to do with it. Do
> we give it away to poor people (depressing grain prices further and
> pissing off the remaining farmers)? Do we give it away to other countries?
>
> It's not a simple issue.

One of my neighbors in Minnesota built a HUGE quonset-type building for
storing corn. If the market was flooded, he unloaded it into the storage
building to sell when the market was up. From what the other neighbors
said, it seemed to work quite well for him. IIRC, there wasn't any
government funding involved.

You might consider adding that as option 4.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

In article <[email protected]>, Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:36:05 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>And in the 80s, several promising experimental treatments for HIV/AIDS were
>>never tested on human volunteers because the FDA feared it would harm them ---
>
>>Hellooooooo!! They're dying already! How is the treatment going to make that
>>worse?
>
>Sorry, but there's many things that can be worse. You're not
>considering possible alternatives. Such things as hastening their
>deaths, the possibility of dying in great discomfort and finally,
>possible medical complications down the road.

Missed the word "volunteers" didja? :-) If not for that, I'd agree with you.
As it is, though, I remember people complaining at the time that they didn't
*care* whether the treatment might be dangerous. Remember the time frame, too:
in the 1980s, there were *no* effective treatments for HIV. Infection meant a
death sentence, with a pretty short time period. And people were desperate.
>
>Thalidomide comes to mind when the medical industry has rushed a
>treatment into production.

Somehow I can't see experimental treatments on AIDS patients producing the
same class of risks...

In article <[email protected]>, Upscale <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:49:32 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>Missed the word "volunteers" didja? :-) If not for that, I'd agree with you.
>
>Yup, missed that, my mistake.
>
>>in the 1980s, there were *no* effective treatments for HIV. Infection meant a
>>death sentence, with a pretty short time period. And people were desperate.
>
>Yes, I do remember the lack of effective treatment.
>
>>Somehow I can't see experimental treatments on AIDS patients producing the
>>same class of risks... [as thalidomide]
>
>Maybe not, but the risk is still there. And considering the period of
>time that's elapsed, a similar mistake would cost a drug company many,
>many times more in lawsuits.

True enough. Still, it bothers me when a researcher says, "Hey, I might have a
treatment for this incurable terminal illness" and someone with that illness
says "What the hell, I'm dying anyway, I'll volunteer to try it" -- and the
government says, "We won't let you do that, because it's too dangerous."

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:49:51 -0700, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the
>>other
>>stuff. Almost Zero dust.
>
> *If* you can get your cat to use it. Some cats are pretty particular.


Been lucky that way. All three of ours are pretty laid back when it comes to
litter. Food, OTOH ...

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LDosser" wrote:
>
>> The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the
>> other stuff. Almost Zero dust.
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Shades of the two holer out back equipped with red and white corn cobs.
>
> Used a red cob followed by a white cob to see if you needed to use another
> red cob.
>
> Lew
>
>
>

Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog, newspaper,
leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...

Cats only get the one shade! :()

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Morris Dovey" wrote:
>>
>> One of my neighbors in Minnesota built a HUGE quonset-type building for
>> storing corn. If the market was flooded, he unloaded it into the storage
>> building to sell when the market was up. From what the other neighbors
>> said, it seemed to work quite well for him. IIRC, there wasn't any
>> government funding involved.
> -------------------------------------------
> Still remember the rows of corrigated steel silos housing grain crops
> after WWII.
>

Butler Bins! Started about 100 years ago.

On 4/1/10 10:52 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> While the Mexican poor go hungry from the high corn prices set about
> by the our government's adoption of the ghastly expensive ethanol fuel
> thing, which pollutes the air more due to the reduced efficiency of
> the vehicles it powers. That gov't is going to "fix" healthcare.
>

I totally agree with you about the ethanol myth. It take more energy to
make than it produces.

However, the Mexican poor go hungry because of the Mexican government...
it has very little to do with the US.

Mexico is one of the richest countries on earth, due in part to their
oil resources. The richest man on earth is a Mexican in Mexico.
Unfortunately, Mexico is still very much a class society. You're born
rich or poor and the Government cares very little about their own poor.
They tell them if they don't like living in poverty, to go to "el
Norte."

Poor Mexicans are poor because of their own government's policies, not
ours.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> --
> It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
> intelligent,
> but the one most responsive to change.
> -- Charles
> Darwin

He could just as well have said "Feets, don't fail me now!"

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "LDosser" wrote:
>
>> Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog,
>> newspaper, leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...
> ----------------------
> I was probably 6-7 years old when my Dad told me that one.
>
> It was about the same time he pointed out a round barn as we were driving
> and told me a guy had killed himself in that barn.
>
> Seems the guy ran himself to death looking for a corner where he could
> take a pee.
>
> Lew

LOL!!

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LDosser wrote:
>
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "LDosser" wrote:
>>>
>>>> The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the
>>>> other stuff. Almost Zero dust.
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Shades of the two holer out back equipped with red and white corn cobs.
>>>
>>> Used a red cob followed by a white cob to see if you needed to use
>>> another red cob.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog,
>> newspaper, leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...
>>
>
> OK, I'm not getting the volcanic ash concept.

Kinda like kitty litter, if you're in the right place with no other
recourse.

I suppose regular ash might work, but the volcanic stuff has more of a
cachet.

>
>> Cats only get the one shade! :()
>
> --
>
> There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
>
> Rob Leatham
>

"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LDosser wrote:
>
>> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> LDosser wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> "LDosser" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> other stuff. Almost Zero dust.
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Shades of the two holer out back equipped with red and white corn
>>>>> cobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Used a red cob followed by a white cob to see if you needed to use
>>>>> another red cob.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Praise be, I've never had to resort to corn cobs! Sears catalog,
>>>> newspaper, leaves, volcanic ash, but not cobs ...
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK, I'm not getting the volcanic ash concept.
>>
>> Kinda like kitty litter, if you're in the right place with no other
>> recourse.
>
> Seems somewhat gritty. Bet one walks funny for a while afterwards.

Well, if you happen on some pumice ...

On 4/2/10 10:28 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Poor Mexicans are poor because of their own government's policies, not
>> ours.
>
> While much of what you stated is true, when the price of corn
> skyrockets in Mexico and people actually die of starvation because of
> a stupid policy our gov't has made, it's a pretty sad day. And since
> neither gov't seems to care, that's the true shame of it.
>

Hate to be a pest, but can you cite a reference for this happening.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> And there was Dr. Gene Scott, the TV preacher on late night years ago,
>> who smoked Cuban cigars, had a blues band, and took donations for his
>> Tennessee Walking Horse breeding fees.
> =========================
>
> Today it's his daughter's gig.
>
> Lew

She the blond with the long pinstripe coat?

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Apr 2, 1:25 am, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > --
> > It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
> > intelligent,
> > but the one most responsive to change.
> > -- Charles
> > Darwin
>
> He could just as well have said "Feets, don't fail me now!"

(Lowell George)


Oh, that Henny Youngman.

On 4/3/2010 10:39 PM, DanG wrote:
> An interesting article. One question I have - wasn't the family
> warned of a potential demonstration before the service? It sounds
> like this is a fairly normal circumstance at this particular
> church.
>
> It goes against every thing I believe in. I do believe in freedom
> of speech, but a religious ceremony, especially a funeral, should
> be a hallowed situation. I can't believe any church would condone
> this type of activity. It becomes doubly repugnant at a military
> man's funeral service.

It is idiots like these whose actions result in bad legislation intended
to address breaches of courtesy that should not have occurred and that
if they occurred should have been handled by those present, preferably
with the aid of tar and feathers. However remonstrating forcibly with
the terminally discourteous is now likely to land you in jail.

In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 4/3/2010 10:39 PM, DanG wrote:
>> An interesting article. One question I have - wasn't the family
>> warned of a potential demonstration before the service? It sounds
>> like this is a fairly normal circumstance at this particular
>> church.
>>
>> It goes against every thing I believe in. I do believe in freedom
>> of speech, but a religious ceremony, especially a funeral, should
>> be a hallowed situation. I can't believe any church would condone
>> this type of activity. It becomes doubly repugnant at a military
>> man's funeral service.
>
>It is idiots like these whose actions result in bad legislation intended
>to address breaches of courtesy that should not have occurred and that
>if they occurred should have been handled by those present, preferably
>with the aid of tar and feathers. However remonstrating forcibly with
>the terminally discourteous is now likely to land you in jail.
>
Right. IMO the best way to deal with this would be legislation that explicitly
exempts the appropriate response from prosecution for assault and battery.

On 4/3/2010 9:46 PM, Steve wrote:
> On 2010-03-31 23:23:51 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> said:
>
>> I fear that it's approaching time to water the tree.
>
> I believe the quote is "manure the tree."

Nope.

In article <030420102116164989%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca>, Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Doug Miller
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On 4/3/2010 10:39 PM, DanG wrote:
>> >> An interesting article. One question I have - wasn't the family
>> >> warned of a potential demonstration before the service? It sounds
>> >> like this is a fairly normal circumstance at this particular
>> >> church.
>> >>
>> >> It goes against every thing I believe in. I do believe in freedom
>> >> of speech, but a religious ceremony, especially a funeral, should
>> >> be a hallowed situation. I can't believe any church would condone
>> >> this type of activity. It becomes doubly repugnant at a military
>> >> man's funeral service.
>> >
>> >It is idiots like these whose actions result in bad legislation intended
>> >to address breaches of courtesy that should not have occurred and that
>> >if they occurred should have been handled by those present, preferably
>> >with the aid of tar and feathers. However remonstrating forcibly with
>> >the terminally discourteous is now likely to land you in jail.
>> >
>> Right. IMO the best way to deal with this would be legislation that
>> explicitly
>> exempts the appropriate response from prosecution for assault and battery.
>
>I'm not a US citizen, but I suspect that would require a constitutional
>amendment.

Doubtful.
>
>As abhorrent as Phelps and his cult is, the right to free speech
>applies as long as they are on public property.

I'm not proposing that the law should restrict in any way their right to say
whatever they want, wherever or whenever they want to. I'm just saying that if
what they say is grossly offensive, they should not expect the law to shield
them from a well-deserved beating at the hands of those whom they offended.
>
>What happened in Canada was that were denied entry, a right any
>sovereign nation has. They weren't denied the right to free speech.
>Free speech doesn't mean "speech that I don't find offensive".

I'm not proposing to shut them up. But if you say something deserving of a
punch in the snoot, you shouldn't be surprised -- nor should you expect
protection of the law -- when someone punches you in the snoot.

In article <[email protected]>, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 04/04/2010 07:51 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> I'm not proposing to shut them up. But if you say something deserving of a
>> punch in the snoot, you shouldn't be surprised -- nor should you expect
>> protection of the law -- when someone punches you in the snoot.
>
>Who decides what deserves a punch in the snoot?

IMO, ideally, a jury.
>
>If a little guy says something (maybe even true) that a big guy finds
>offensive, the big guy is allowed to punch him in the snoot without
>legal repercussions?

The law used to recognize the concept of "fighting words". I think it still
should.
>
>You don't think this will have a chilling effect? Isn't this "might
>makes right" by another name?

My state (Indiana) is frequently made sport of as being "backward". Some of
that, I admit, is deserved. But when our current state Constitution was
written, 160 years ago, they managed to get most things right, and some of
them IMO a little better than in the national Constitution. Here's one:

"No law shall be passed, restraining the free interchange of thought and
opinion, or restricting the right to speak, write, or print, freely, on any
subject whatever: but for the abuse of that right, every person shall be
responsible." [Constitution of the State of Indiana, Article I, Section 9]

The members of the Westboro Baptist "Church" are, IMHO, grossly abusing their
right to free speech. And for that abuse, they should be held responsible.

On 4/5/2010 12:38 PM, Chris Friesen wrote:
> On 04/04/2010 07:51 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> I'm not proposing to shut them up. But if you say something deserving of a
>> punch in the snoot, you shouldn't be surprised -- nor should you expect
>> protection of the law -- when someone punches you in the snoot.
>
> Who decides what deserves a punch in the snoot?
>
> If a little guy says something (maybe even true) that a big guy finds
> offensive, the big guy is allowed to punch him in the snoot without
> legal repercussions?
>
> You don't think this will have a chilling effect? Isn't this "might
> makes right" by another name?

What's wrong with chilling effects?

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 05:38:50 -0700, Robatoy wrote:

> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/
index.htm...
>
> MONTCOAL W.V. — Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kan.,
> headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to convey the
> message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead was a result
> of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia threatening the
> Church and its publisher, according to a statement from the Church.

Having known some of the fine folk that reside in Appalachia, I wonder if
the protesters will all be coming back :-). Dare I hope not?

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 11:39:00 -0500, the infamous -MIKE-
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 4/2/10 10:28 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> Poor Mexicans are poor because of their own government's policies, not
>>> ours.
>>
>> While much of what you stated is true, when the price of corn
>> skyrockets in Mexico and people actually die of starvation because of
>> a stupid policy our gov't has made, it's a pretty sad day. And since
>> neither gov't seems to care, that's the true shame of it.
>>
>
>Hate to be a pest, but can you cite a reference for this happening.

Yeah, I read it somewhere and will see if I can find it for you.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22301669/ Oops, no, that's dead fish from
corn growers.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message511394/pg1 OMG!

OK, 15 minutes of searching and no joy. I don't recall where I read
it, Mike. You're on your own.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

Chris Friesen wrote:
> On 04/01/2010 10:49 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
>> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.
>
> I'm curious what you think should be done. Suppose there's enough
> grain flooding the markets that prices are low and nobody will make
> money. Do we:
>
> 1) let the farmers all lose money, forcing the marginal ones out of
> business 2) have the government pay the farmers to destroy grain and
> not plant so much
> 3) have the government pay the farmers market rate for the grain, thus
> triggering sanctions from other countries because we're subsidizing
> our farmers
>
> If we pick option 3, then we also need to decide what to do with it.
> Do
> we give it away to poor people (depressing grain prices further and
> pissing off the remaining farmers)? Do we give it away to other
> countries?
>
> It's not a simple issue.

Your #3 is a contradiction. If prices are low, as in your hypothetical, that
IS the market price. If the government pays more, it is interposing its
judgment for the market. Every time the government intervenes in the general
marketplace, wealth is destroyed. Every time. With subsidies, tariffs,
taxes, regulations, inspections, and so on.

It's dirt simple. Option #1 is the ONLY effective answer.

And your conclusion that the marginal farmers will be forced out of business
is wrong; only the stupid farmers will be forced out of business. Every
farmer can hedge his crop's outcome by selling his anticipated crop on the
futures market and/or buying insurance. Failure to anticipate and protect
against unforeseen circumstances is the mark of a foolish farmer, not one
ruined by the whims of fortune beyond his control.

DGDevin wrote:
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Well, except for the fact that he, and people like him, just voted
>> to take
>> over 1/6 of the US economy and believe themselves to be superior to
>> you in every way, thus qualified to run *your* life and oversee
>> *your* health.
>
> It must save you a lot of time, reducing everything to bumper-sticker
> slogans like that.

Yes. Ronald Reagan once said: "People who think there are not simple
solutions to complex problems just haven't tried hard enough."

>
> You don't want some govt. bureaucrat meddling in your health care, but
> apparently insurance industry bureaucrats deciding which tests your
> doctor can order, which drugs he can prescribe, or in some cases even
> whether you'll have insurance at all--that's okay.

Absolutely. I can change insurance companies. I can self-insure. I can do
without. With insurance, I have options and I can pick the one I feel is
best for me. But I can't vote against Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

>
> I see the insurance industry weasels were claiming there was a
> loophole in the new law that would allow them to go on denying
> coverage to children with pre-existing conditions until 2014, but
> upon reflection (and a warning from the HHS Secretary) they've
> decided to cover those children--how magnanimous of them. Kids with
> health insurance coverage--good thing, or bad thing? Gee, that's a
> real puzzler, isn't it?

No, not really. Without the new law, people could buy insurance for any
condition - pre-existing or not. Movie stars have insured their legs or
tits. Companies insure against satellite launch malfunction. The insurance
might not be subsidized by me and millions of others - against our will -
but it was and is available. Just not cheap.

Regarding children, suppose a child (or adult for that matter) has a
condition that costs $1 million a year to treat. Further, suppose the
company has one million policy holders - and you're one of them. This child
costs YOU about $1.20/year. Now suppose there are, oh, one hundred such
children in dire straits. Your insurance premium just went up $120/year with
no benefit to you (unless you are among the 0.00001% with an afflicted
child).

Now it's your turn: Explain to me how my (or your) insurance cost is going
to go down if insurance companies MUST pay for pre-existing condtions or the
prohibition of life-time caps. Seems to me if the insurance companies'
payouts increase, the premiums paid must, of necessity, go up.

Further, mark my words, pressure groups are going to successfully agitate
the government for specious treatments: Chiropractic, Homeopathy, Aroma
Therapy, Yoga, companion animals, Holistic Medicine, Astrology, Acupuncture,
Sensory deprivation, Massage, blah-blah-blah. Add another couple hundred to
your annual premium. Bah!

On the other hand, suppose this child (or adult) dies. Chances are you
didn't know the deceased. So the next time you have to stand in line (movie,
restaurant, MVD), ask yourself "Am I better off?" (not even counting the
$120).

On 4/2/2010 10:30 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 22:27:54 -0700, the infamous Mark& Juanita
>

>> Phelps's group's resemblance to a church is purely artificial and
>> coincidental.
>
> Ditto the Reverends Jesse Jackson, Farrakhan, Wright, and thousands of
> other "preachers" and their churches. But the gov't recognizes them,
> as do political groups, because of their power. It truly sucks.

Don't leave out Al Sharpster.

And there was Dr. Gene Scott, the TV preacher on late night years ago,
who smoked Cuban cigars, had a blues band, and took donations for his
Tennessee Walking Horse breeding fees.

My kinda religion ... ;)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:49:51 -0700, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>The corn based cat litter is made from the cobs and is better than the other
>stuff. Almost Zero dust.

*If* you can get your cat to use it. Some cats are pretty particular.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these
>> bastards
>> live here:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>
> MONTCOAL W.V. — Protesters from Westboro Baptist Church in
> Topeka,
> Kan., headed to the Upper Big Branch mine Thursday morning to
> convey
> the message that the explosion there that left 25 miners dead
> was a
> result of e-mail messages allegedly sent from West Virginia
> threatening the Church and its publisher, according to a
> statement
> from the Church.

This should be worth following. Those good working folk really
aren't as tolerant of the right of the protester's to have free
speech as some others. Perhaps Obama should intervene with a
heart-felt apology for the nasty email sent to the religious folk,
and a condemnation of the miners. <sarcasm intended>


--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'

-Mark Twain
.

On 3/31/2010 3:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> What is the problem? Bill O'Reilly already offered to pay the legal
> bills. Because he cares dontchaknow....

And a damn fine, human, gesture on his part.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> this one is almost as good!
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262305/Council-need-JCB-dumped-mattress.html
>
> brits have fallen off the edge ...


That's nothing, going to jail for defending your family against armed
home-invasion robbers, now that's nuts:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1244668/Millionaire-businessman-Munir-Hussain-walks-free-court-jail-sentence-attacking-knife-wielding-burglar-overturned.html

An interesting article. One question I have - wasn't the family
warned of a potential demonstration before the service? It sounds
like this is a fairly normal circumstance at this particular
church.

It goes against every thing I believe in. I do believe in freedom
of speech, but a religious ceremony, especially a funeral, should
be a hallowed situation. I can't believe any church would condone
this type of activity. It becomes doubly repugnant at a military
man's funeral service.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]



"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these
> bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1

On 3/31/2010 10:34 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Mar 31, 11:26 pm, Mark & Juanita <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>>> live here:
>>
>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>>
>>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and then
>>> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us in
>>> silliness..
>>
>>> mind the wrap.
>>
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tag...
>>
>> selling-goldfish.html
>>
>> That, along with the stories about grocers not even being able to give
>> away "substandard -- i.e., too small but still good and edible" fruit just
>> give evidence to the fact that Great Britain is done.
>>
>> --
>>
>> There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
>>
>> Rob Leatham
>
> I watch with great interest what France is going to do with the No-
> Veil legislation.

Wait until you see the no-veal legislation ...


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 23:49:32 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>Missed the word "volunteers" didja? :-) If not for that, I'd agree with you.

Yup, missed that, my mistake.

>in the 1980s, there were *no* effective treatments for HIV. Infection meant a
>death sentence, with a pretty short time period. And people were desperate.

Yes, I do remember the lack of effective treatment.

>Somehow I can't see experimental treatments on AIDS patients producing the
>same class of risks...

Maybe not, but the risk is still there. And considering the period of
time that's elapsed, a similar mistake would cost a drug company many,
many times more in lawsuits.

Nonny wrote:
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough,
>> and then
>> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us
>> in
>> silliness..
>>
>
> It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no
> person standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents.
> Send the message to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon
> to be history.
>
> Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected
> officials.

Don't forget to wash your hands before returning to work.

>Let me ask you: Don't you have some retired Marines in your state? Check at
>the American Legion or VFW hall. I'm sure they'd have some ideas on how to
>deal with these miscreants.

I recall a few news stories describing the Hell's Angels patrolling
the funeral sites and harrasing the protesters. Not so much lately
though.

-Zz

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:56:56 -0700, the infamous "Nonny"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>
>"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough,
>> and then
>> again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of us
>> in
>> silliness..
>>
>
>It's time to flush the toilet and get in new politicians. The "no
>person standing" should particularly apply to all incumbents.
>Send the message to the judges and their lobbyists: You're soon
>to be history.
>
>Just as we flush a toilet, we need to change the elected
>officials.

Absolutely right. ALL OF THEM, EVERY F*CK*NG TERM.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
> live here:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.html?hpt=T1

I saw an article on Phelps years ago that quoted a couple of family members
(his kids I think) who had broken away from the cult. They said he is
literally addicted to hate, it's his reason for living. Reading about his
life makes it clear he is barking-at-the-moon crazy, yet he has a vicious
cunning that has allowed him to get away with a lot, including staying out
of jail. A lingering death from an especially painful disease would be too
good for him, he's a living example of why every so often it's good to throw
a little bleach in the gene pool.

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:19:49 -0600, the infamous "ChairMan"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>In news:[email protected],
>Larry Jaques <[email protected]>spewed forth:
>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:26:56 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2:12Â pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Kansas just because these bastards
>>>>> live here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/westboro.baptist.snyder/index.htm...
>>>>
>>>> LOL...now I can't express my disgust with that ruling enough, and
>>>> then again, some other places in the 'Western World' are ahead of
>>>> us in silliness..
>>>>
>>>> mind the wrap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-
>>>> selling-goldfish.html
>>>
>>> That, along with the stories about grocers not even being able to
>>> give away "substandard -- i.e., too small but still good and edible"
>>> fruit just give evidence to the fact that Great Britain is done.
>>
>> It happened here, too. The great masses of perfectly good food (which
>> are tossed into dumpsters nationwide on a daily basis) are banned from
>> harvest by the homeless, who "might get food poisoning from it." Of
>> course, if they don't get it, they'll die, but that's not the fault of
>> the Department of Health, so they claim.
>>
>> And our gov't pays farmers to produce less (and to destroy perfectly
>> good grains) so the prices stabilize. Screw the starving.
>
>And these are the ones that are going to give us healthcare<UGH>

PREcisely. And <UGH> doesn't _even_ cover it.

BOHICA.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin