Hopfully someone can help....
I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
in the back of my head that shellac probably wasn't the best thing to
use for the top, but the shellac is tinted and I wanted it to match
everywhere.
I've Googled and have read "you can't use varnish now", "you can use
varnish on dewaxed shellac", "there's not enough wax to worry about"...
so, I'm still not sure. There's 3 coats of a 2# cut on the desk.
Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
the finish the way it is?
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
dc
In article <[email protected]>, Gene T
<[email protected]> wrote:
> since you used de-waxed shellac you should be able to put any finish over
> it.
> Gene
Gene,
That's the thing, I've got *NON-dewaxed* right now. Barry replied and
said I can put a dewaxed coat on top and then some sort of varnish.
Any suggestions for a good varnish finish? Poly?
Thanks,
dc
> "dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:111020042241275465%[email protected]...
> > Hopfully someone can help....
> >
> > I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
> > in the back of my head that shellac probably wasn't the best thing to
> > use for the top, but the shellac is tinted and I wanted it to match
> > everywhere.
> >
> > I've Googled and have read "you can't use varnish now", "you can use
> > varnish on dewaxed shellac", "there's not enough wax to worry about"...
> > so, I'm still not sure. There's 3 coats of a 2# cut on the desk.
> >
> > Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
> > some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
> > the finish the way it is?
> >
> > Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> > dc
>
>
Barry,
In article <[email protected]>, Ba r r y
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:41:27 -0400, dc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
> >some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
> >the finish the way it is?
>
> You can use Seal Coat dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat. I'd use it
> straight out of the can, as a 2# cut. I'd leave the shellac as a
> final finish on the non-writing surfaces.
>
> What kind of "varnish" were you planning on using?
Thanks for the note! I haven't found any dewaxed shellac yet. If I
can't, can I skim off the top of my non-dewaxed after it's all settled
out?
Any suggestions on a good varnish for the writing surface? I don't
imagine poly is my only option.
Thanks,
dc
Thanks, all for the tips and pointers. I guess I'll trek over to the
Woodcraft (or was it Woodworker's?) and dig around for some dewaxed
shellac and a can of the Behlen's Rockhard Table varnish.
Do I need to scuff the surface before applying the varnish? I guess it
would say so on the can. I just want to know ahead of time.
Thanks, again!
dc
In article <[email protected]>, Ron
<[email protected]> wrote:
> dc <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<111020042241275465%[email protected]>...
> > Hopfully someone can help....
> >
> > I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
>
> How did you make the top? How thick did you make it.
>
> I'm going to make a desk for my daughter (she'll get the rough wood
> for x-mas. She's 8 and she's in the shop with me whenever I'm there)
> and I'm not sure what I want to do for a top. My first thought was
> maple ply with a banding. Then I started thinking about solid wood but
> the cost will go up and it'll be a lot more work.
Ron, I guess when I said "finished" I meant as in stain/shellac. I
stripped the extremely worn finish off a vintage desk and I just
"re-finished" it.
The desk I have is maple (maybe rock-maple). The top is 3/4" maple
boards joined together. The top is then dovetailed (?) into the sides.
I'm not much of a woodworker per se. I just like to fix up older
pieces and refinish or restore them.
Good luck with your desk. Sounds like a great present!
dc
If you want a tough varnish that is warmer in tone than poly you might want
to consider Behlen's Rock Hard Table Top Varnish. I just posted more
information about this finish on the Best Finish for Dining Table thread.
- Bruce
"Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The wax in 'non-dewaxed' shellac should have floated to the top of the
> hardening solution. I would gently scrub scuff with a fine 3-M pad, or 320
> to 400 'Wet or Dry'. Brush & vacuum away all dust, then give a quick &
> thin
> coat of Seal Coat {WAX FREE shellac}. Then apply several coats of a
> short-oil varnish.
>
> With that said, for a 'working' desk I would NOT recommend varnish. My
> finish of choice would be a water-based Poly. While a little 'cool' in
> tone,
> it can be tinted. It will give a very hard & usable finish. I did a Maple
> top for a kitchen utility cabinet for my wife. I used a water-based poly
> and
> it still looks like glass several years later.
>
> Regards & Good Luck,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>
> "dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:111020042241275465%[email protected]...
>> Hopfully someone can help....
>>
>> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
>> in the back of my head that shellac probably wasn't the best thing to
>> use for the top, but the shellac is tinted and I wanted it to match
>> everywhere.
>>
>> I've Googled and have read "you can't use varnish now", "you can use
>> varnish on dewaxed shellac", "there's not enough wax to worry about"...
>> so, I'm still not sure. There's 3 coats of a 2# cut on the desk.
>>
>> Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
>> some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
>> the finish the way it is?
>>
>> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>> dc
>
>
Ron,
My experience with waxy shellac is that when the shellac is still in
solution, it settles to the bottom of the container. Does this change as
the alcohol evaporates and the shellac forms a hard film?
"Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The wax in 'non-dewaxed' shellac should have floated to the top of the
> hardening solution. I would gently scrub scuff with a fine 3-M pad, or 320
> to 400 'Wet or Dry'. Brush & vacuum away all dust, then give a quick &
thin
> coat of Seal Coat {WAX FREE shellac}. Then apply several coats of a
> short-oil varnish.
>
> With that said, for a 'working' desk I would NOT recommend varnish. My
> finish of choice would be a water-based Poly. While a little 'cool' in
tone,
> it can be tinted. It will give a very hard & usable finish. I did a Maple
> top for a kitchen utility cabinet for my wife. I used a water-based poly
and
> it still looks like glass several years later.
>
> Regards & Good Luck,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
As pointed out by another poster, the wax comes in with the shellac raw
material. It is not added but it is sometimes removed to make dewaxed
shellac. The wax will be throughout the hardened film in waxy shellac. The
"poor man's" way to make dewaxed shellac is to let it settle and decant the
clear solution above the wax.
As for my second post, you will be labeled as either a heretic or an
enlightened finisher if you put poly on top of waxy shellac.
Good Luck.
"Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Baron,
> I don't work with shellac, other then Seal Coat as a sealer.
>
> My advice was based on 'engineering logic'. What is the purpose of the wax
> in the shellac? My understanding was that it is to create a surface
barrier
> between the finish and the air. {Logically, the reverse would hinder the
> adhesion of the finish to the underlying substrate}. Therefore, the wax
> component would migrate to the top surface.
>
> I could very well be totally wrong . . . using logic has gotten me in
> trouble before !!
>
> However {from your second message}, it's nice to know that the end result
of
> my advice coincides with yours - scuff sand and apply the poly {My
personal
> choice for a simple, extremely hard, rather impervious, finish}.
>
> Regards & Thanks,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:06:26 GMT, "Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Baron,
>I don't work with shellac, other then Seal Coat as a sealer.
>
>My advice was based on 'engineering logic'. What is the purpose of the wax
>in the shellac? My understanding was that it is to create a surface barrier
>between the finish and the air. {Logically, the reverse would hinder the
>adhesion of the finish to the underlying substrate}. Therefore, the wax
>component would migrate to the top surface.
>
>I could very well be totally wrong . . . using logic has gotten me in
>trouble before !!
>
>However {from your second message}, it's nice to know that the end result of
>my advice coincides with yours - scuff sand and apply the poly {My personal
>choice for a simple, extremely hard, rather impervious, finish}.
>
>Regards & Thanks,
>Ron Magen
>Backyard Boatshop
I think the wax is there from the start. it's a naturally occuring
impurity.
since you used de-waxed shellac you should be able to put any finish over
it.
Gene
"dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:111020042241275465%[email protected]...
> Hopfully someone can help....
>
> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
> in the back of my head that shellac probably wasn't the best thing to
> use for the top, but the shellac is tinted and I wanted it to match
> everywhere.
>
> I've Googled and have read "you can't use varnish now", "you can use
> varnish on dewaxed shellac", "there's not enough wax to worry about"...
> so, I'm still not sure. There's 3 coats of a 2# cut on the desk.
>
> Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
> some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
> the finish the way it is?
>
> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> dc
The wax in 'non-dewaxed' shellac should have floated to the top of the
hardening solution. I would gently scrub scuff with a fine 3-M pad, or 320
to 400 'Wet or Dry'. Brush & vacuum away all dust, then give a quick & thin
coat of Seal Coat {WAX FREE shellac}. Then apply several coats of a
short-oil varnish.
With that said, for a 'working' desk I would NOT recommend varnish. My
finish of choice would be a water-based Poly. While a little 'cool' in tone,
it can be tinted. It will give a very hard & usable finish. I did a Maple
top for a kitchen utility cabinet for my wife. I used a water-based poly and
it still looks like glass several years later.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:111020042241275465%[email protected]...
> Hopfully someone can help....
>
> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
> in the back of my head that shellac probably wasn't the best thing to
> use for the top, but the shellac is tinted and I wanted it to match
> everywhere.
>
> I've Googled and have read "you can't use varnish now", "you can use
> varnish on dewaxed shellac", "there's not enough wax to worry about"...
> so, I'm still not sure. There's 3 coats of a 2# cut on the desk.
>
> Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
> some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
> the finish the way it is?
>
> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> dc
dc wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Ron
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> dc <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:<111020042241275465%[email protected]>...
>>>> Hopfully someone can help....
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I
>>>> realized
>>>
>>> How did you make the top? How thick did you make it.
>>>
>>> I'm going to make a desk for my daughter (she'll get the rough wood
>>> for x-mas. She's 8 and she's in the shop with me whenever I'm there)
>>> and I'm not sure what I want to do for a top. My first thought was
>>> maple ply with a banding. Then I started thinking about solid wood
>>> but the cost will go up and it'll be a lot more work.
>>
>> Ron, I guess when I said "finished" I meant as in stain/shellac. I
>> stripped the extremely worn finish off a vintage desk and I just
>> "re-finished" it.
>>
>> The desk I have is maple (maybe rock-maple). The top is 3/4" maple
>> boards joined together. The top is then dovetailed (?) into the
>> sides. I'm not much of a woodworker per se. I just like to fix up
>> older pieces and refinish or restore them.
>>
>> Good luck with your desk. Sounds like a great present!
>> dc
The first thing to "go" on a desk is the top. Are you going to make an
aweful fuss when she tries that girl scout knife on the top? Make two
tops - a handy dandy pine one painted pink attached via pocket screws and a
second one to replace the pinkie when she's older. Heck might save pinkie
for when she's a teen and wants that nifty purple and orange desk top!
Josie
Do It Best hardware carries Zinsser Seal Coat the HD and Lowes don't
want to. Zinssera spray can shellac is dewaxed as they told someone
the wax plugged the nozzle. Decant clear stuff off of mixed shellac
that has been undisturbed for a couple of weeks and folks say it's
comparable to dewaxed.
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:41:42 -0400, dc <[email protected]> wrote:
>Barry,
>
>In article <[email protected]>, Ba r r y
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:41:27 -0400, dc <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
>> >some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
>> >the finish the way it is?
>>
>> You can use Seal Coat dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat. I'd use it
>> straight out of the can, as a 2# cut. I'd leave the shellac as a
>> final finish on the non-writing surfaces.
>>
>> What kind of "varnish" were you planning on using?
>
>Thanks for the note! I haven't found any dewaxed shellac yet. If I
>can't, can I skim off the top of my non-dewaxed after it's all settled
>out?
>
>Any suggestions on a good varnish for the writing surface? I don't
>imagine poly is my only option.
>
>Thanks,
>dc
dc <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<111020042241275465%[email protected]>...
> Hopfully someone can help....
>
> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
How did you make the top? How thick did you make it.
I'm going to make a desk for my daughter (she'll get the rough wood
for x-mas. She's 8 and she's in the shop with me whenever I'm there)
and I'm not sure what I want to do for a top. My first thought was
maple ply with a banding. Then I started thinking about solid wood but
the cost will go up and it'll be a lot more work.
Thanks,
Ron
"Non-dewaxed" is a double negative. Try "waxy".
A two pound cut might be pushing it. Polyurethane will stick quite well
to a 1.5 pound cut as long as you scuff sand the shellac film. It is not as
good as using dewaxed shellac.
You could cover the existing coats with a coat of dewaxed shellac and
use the finish of your choice but why do you feel the need to use something
other than shellac? Shellac was used for quite some time as the finish of
choice for writing desks until lacquer became available. It is quite hard
enough for this purpose. The downside is that a spilled alcoholic drink
will dissolve the film. It will also not do lacquer much good but it is
tends to discolor rather than dissolve the film.
Good Luck.
"dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:111020042241275465%[email protected]...
> Hopfully someone can help....
>
> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac. I realized
> in the back of my head that shellac probably wasn't the best thing to
> use for the top, but the shellac is tinted and I wanted it to match
> everywhere.
>
> I've Googled and have read "you can't use varnish now", "you can use
> varnish on dewaxed shellac", "there's not enough wax to worry about"...
> so, I'm still not sure. There's 3 coats of a 2# cut on the desk.
>
> Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
> some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
> the finish the way it is?
>
> Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> dc
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:41:42 -0400, dc <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks for the note! I haven't found any dewaxed shellac yet. If I
>can't, can I skim off the top of my non-dewaxed after it's all settled
>out?
Ask at local paint stores for Zinnser Seal Coat.
>Any suggestions on a good varnish for the writing surface? I don't
>imagine poly is my only option.
Behlens' Rock Hard and Pratt & Lambert are excellent varnishes.
Waterlox makes an excellent urethane product as well. A few months'
back, Fine Woodworking had a great article about varnishing and
rubbing out table tops. Unfortunately, I can't remember the issue.
Barry
Reread.
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:03:31 GMT, "Gene T" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>since you used de-waxed shellac you should be able to put any finish over
>it.
>Gene
>"dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:111020042241275465%[email protected]...
>> Hopfully someone can help....
>>
>> I've just finished a maple desk with non-dewaxed shellac.
Baron,
I don't work with shellac, other then Seal Coat as a sealer.
My advice was based on 'engineering logic'. What is the purpose of the wax
in the shellac? My understanding was that it is to create a surface barrier
between the finish and the air. {Logically, the reverse would hinder the
adhesion of the finish to the underlying substrate}. Therefore, the wax
component would migrate to the top surface.
I could very well be totally wrong . . . using logic has gotten me in
trouble before !!
However {from your second message}, it's nice to know that the end result of
my advice coincides with yours - scuff sand and apply the poly {My personal
choice for a simple, extremely hard, rather impervious, finish}.
Regards & Thanks,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Baron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ron,
>
> My experience with waxy shellac is that when the shellac is still in
> solution, it settles to the bottom of the container. Does this change as
> the alcohol evaporates and the shellac forms a hard film?
>
> "Ron Magen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The wax in 'non-dewaxed' shellac should have floated to the top of the
> > hardening solution. I would gently scrub scuff with a fine 3-M pad, or
320
> > to 400 'Wet or Dry'. Brush & vacuum away all dust, then give a quick &
> thin
> > coat of Seal Coat {WAX FREE shellac}. Then apply several coats of a
> > short-oil varnish.
> >
> > With that said, for a 'working' desk I would NOT recommend varnish. My
> > finish of choice would be a water-based Poly. While a little 'cool' in
> tone,
> > it can be tinted. It will give a very hard & usable finish. I did a
Maple
> > top for a kitchen utility cabinet for my wife. I used a water-based poly
> and
> > it still looks like glass several years later.
> >
> > Regards & Good Luck,
> > Ron Magen
> > Backyard Boatshop
>
>
You can dewax shellac yourself, but dewaxed shellac is also readily
available from Homestead Finishing (as well as many other sources).
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/shellac3.htm
- Bruce
"dc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:121020041141422589%[email protected]...
> Barry,
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Ba r r y
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:41:27 -0400, dc <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
>> >some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
>> >the finish the way it is?
>>
>> You can use Seal Coat dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat. I'd use it
>> straight out of the can, as a 2# cut. I'd leave the shellac as a
>> final finish on the non-writing surfaces.
>>
>> What kind of "varnish" were you planning on using?
>
> Thanks for the note! I haven't found any dewaxed shellac yet. If I
> can't, can I skim off the top of my non-dewaxed after it's all settled
> out?
>
> Any suggestions on a good varnish for the writing surface? I don't
> imagine poly is my only option.
>
> Thanks,
> dc
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:41:27 -0400, dc <[email protected]> wrote:
>Can I put a 1# cut of dewaxed on top and then varnish? Or is there
>some specialty stuff that I can use to toughen the writing surface with
>the finish the way it is?
You can use Seal Coat dewaxed shellac as a barrier coat. I'd use it
straight out of the can, as a 2# cut. I'd leave the shellac as a
final finish on the non-writing surfaces.
What kind of "varnish" were you planning on using?
Barry