After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that
there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They
incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability.
One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too,
an incentive to use it.
It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
design, would you put the guard back on?
Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine
> that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws.
> They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection
> capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed
> and replaced too, an incentive to use it.
>
> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a
> better design, would you put the guard back on?
>
> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>
>
>
I would definately use the guard if it would stay out of the way. The
trouble I have with mine is it's so fiddly to adjust it can actually make
things worse. The work piece starts to bind against the fence and guard
requiring more force to push through the blade, and we all know that's a
bad thing.
Plus, if I take it off for a non-through cut, there's no positive
registration to get it back where it needs to be. The design is letting
me down.
Puckdropper
--
Is it user error, or bad design?
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit.
> I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever
> mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration.
>
> I installed the guard on my Delta hybrid when I got it three years
> ago.
> It was removed in the first week and hasn't been back on since.
>
> I try to think through every cut in advance of turning on the saw,
> asking myself how the sumbitch can hurt me and making sure I handle
> the piece accordingly.
>
> Larry
He mentioned it during the Table Saw series. He basically said they took
the guard off for TV clairity, but it was your choice whether to use the
guard or not. (This is from my memory. For a direct word for word
quote, contact LRod.)
Puckdropper
--
Is it human error or bad design?
Greg G. wrote:
>> you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be
>> fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually
>> encourages use.
>
> You would think. That was one of the big disappointments of the
> Unisaw. I think it went 20 years without any major upgrades - other
> than a trendy, yet dated X splashed across the front and in the model
> number. Heavy, reliable saw, but the guard and splitter were a joke.
> The Powermatic2000 and SawStop upped the ante in the saw market.
Yep. I tried my best to keep that blade guard installed on my Unisaw, but it's
just an utter piece of crap and I can only put up with so much of that. I
opted instead for a good phenolic zero-clearance insert with a relief cut in
back to allow the installation of a collection of splitters (riving knives,
really, of my own design that I made in about five different heights, each of
which hug the blade as closely as possible according that that particular blade
height). Couple that arrangement with a good crosscut sled, a pair of
GRRR-Rippers and various featherboards and I'm about as safe as I can be
without have a blade guard or Saw-Stop to protect me the rest of the way.
Being deathly afraid of the machine and following a calm calculated process
helps too. I've had my Unisaw for about 10 years and it has yet to bite me
(knock on wood...).
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
diggerop said:
> ....
>So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is arguably
>the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the Chinese
>produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a distributor and
>then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50% higher than you pay
>for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it got to me.
>What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing and
>associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've always
>done that with quality.
>But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard,
>delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year, what
>then?
>
>I don't much like the answer I come up with.
>
>diggerop
They ARE improving - just like all who came before. When I was young,
you couldn't buy a foreign product unless it was liquor or cheese.
Used to special order transmission parts from Flint and Saginaw, MI.
Electronics parts from Illinois and Texas. I watched as the Japanese,
then Taiwan and S. Korea, and now China took over the electronics,
steel, textiles, and automotive industries. Fiat and MG had a small
presence, and when those goofy looking Toyota's showed up, people
laughed. I bought two off the back of a car lot for $200 ea., rebuilt
the engines, and gave them to my sisters. One ran for 300,000 miles
before the rear end fell out. The other one got wrecked. But the
Japanese finally got the styling thing down and that was the end of
the US domination of the car industry.
We built up our own standards of living internally and were fairly
isolationist until the "new world economy" hit. Developing nations
should do the same, for their own sakes and ours, but what we have are
profiteers who move in to exploit cheap labor where little passes down
to workers and we get floods of cheap products we cannot compete with.
Those at the top get their cut, and the rest of us are fucked.
The end result is what we are seeing today. Hoarding, a big grab for
what is left through any means possible, and the rest of us can go to
hell. And until all participating countries are equalized, it's gonna
be really tough in the supposed Western World (and Oz). ;-)
So I don't much like the answer I see either.
FWIW,
Greg G.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine
>> that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws.
>> They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection
>> capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and
>> replaced too, an incentive to use it.
>>
>> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
>> design, would you put the guard back on?
>>
>> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws?
>
> The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper
> procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces
> and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a
> small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade.
>
New saws, Leon. I don't think they are easily adapted because of the riving
knife requirement. The fact that it is easily removed and replaced takes
away the argument that it does not work well with jigs so you leave it off
all the time. Although it still may not work with jigs. I've only seen a
couple of photos in the magazine.
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that
> there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They
> incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability.
> One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced
> too, an incentive to use it.
>
> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
> design, would you put the guard back on?
>
> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>
>
>
Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws?
The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper
procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces
and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small
piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade.
Ed Pawlowski said:
>
>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Leon said:
>>
>>>The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper
>>>procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces
>>>and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a
>>>small
>>>piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade.
>>
>> Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed
>> thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and
>> remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to
>> build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit.
>>
>>
>> Greg G.
>
>Evidently that complaint was noticed. The new requirement is that the guard
>comes off and is replaced easily so after that dado cut, no excuses when it
>takes seconds to replace it. I keep my guard in place, but when I do have
>to take it off, it does not go back or right away. With a snap fit it
>would.
Hi, Ed. :)
An example of market forces working, the entry into the market of saws
like the Saw Stop, PM2000, etc. have forced companies like Delta to
rethink their views of what will sell. I also noticed that after a
brief stint in China, they are now hawking the new Delta Unisaw,
"assembled" in Tennessee, with all the bells and whistles, safety
wise, that I complained to Frank about two or three years ago. The
blowback must have been considerable from the move overseas. I have
no doubt the castings are made in China, but every little bit helps,
eh? I've not seen it in person because most of the venders in this
area stopped selling Delta after the B&D assimilation, but it looks
sharp. A real moving riving knife, venier tilt, better blade guard.
Unfortunately I can't afford but what I have...
The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and
much of what is used on construction sites.
Greg G.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and
> much of what is used on construction sites.
>
From what I read, even the cheap saws will be better than in the past. If
you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be
fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually
encourages use.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws?
>>
>> The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using
>> proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and
>> shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause
>> kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the
>> guard and the blade.
>
> Rather difficult to use many kinds of jig with them as well.
Absolutely and totally agree.
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their
> finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
>
Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how
kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if
my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and
complain.
diggerop
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that
> there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They
> incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability.
> One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too,
> an incentive to use it.
>
> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
> design, would you put the guard back on?
>
> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>
>
>
Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit.
I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever
mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration.
I installed the guard on my Delta hybrid when I got it three years ago.
It was removed in the first week and hasn't been back on since.
I try to think through every cut in advance of turning on the saw,
asking myself how the sumbitch can hurt me and making sure I handle the
piece accordingly.
Larry
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> New saws, Leon. I don't think they are easily adapted because of the
> riving knife requirement. The fact that it is easily removed and replaced
> takes away the argument that it does not work well with jigs so you leave
> it off all the time. Although it still may not work with jigs. I've only
> seen a couple of photos in the magazine.
>
Darn,,,, I was hoping you were going to say aftermarket. I have seen the
new ones, IIRC SawStop was probably the first, maybe the Powermatic 2000,
and Jet has one and Delta has the newer design on the current Unisaw.
IIRC the guards are still basically the same idea but better built, read
that as what appears to be more impressive engeneering rather than the
stamped and folded variety that came with most saws in the past. AND they
are quite easy to remove and replace.
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon said:
>
>>The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper
>>procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces
>>and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a
>>small
>>piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade.
>
> Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed
> thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and
> remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to
> build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit.
>
>
> Greg G.
Evidently that complaint was noticed. The new requirement is that the guard
comes off and is replaced easily so after that dado cut, no excuses when it
takes seconds to replace it. I keep my guard in place, but when I do have
to take it off, it does not go back or right away. With a snap fit it
would.
On Nov 16, 4:00=A0pm, Greg G.<[email protected]> wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski said:
>
>
>
> >"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and
> >> much of what is used on construction sites.
>
> >From what I read, even the cheap saws will be better than in the past. =
=A0 If
>
> If importers would stop buying the cheapest stuff available to fill
> the big box stores it would have already improved. As diggerop
> mentioned, there are some interesting pieces out there, we just don't
> see them on these shores much/yet. And for the few importers that
> actually have any input into the manufacturing process, it's not
> rocket science - stop being so damned cheap and lazy. The Taiwanese,
> Indians, and Chinese sure won't be - they're hungry for your dollars.
>
> >you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should =
be
> >fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually
> >encourages use.
>
> You would think. That was one of the big disappointments of the
> Unisaw. I think it went 20 years without any major upgrades - other
> than a trendy, yet dated X splashed across the front and in the model
> number. =A0Heavy, reliable saw, but the guard and splitter were a joke.
> The Powermatic2000 and SawStop upped the ante in the saw market.
OTOH, that's exactly why I bought my Unisaw. Well, that and the
price.
"diggerop" <toobusy@themoment> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> diggerop said:
>>
>>>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their
>>>> finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
>>>>
>>>Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how
>>>kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder
>>>if
>>>my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and
>>>complain.
>>
>> Funny.
>> My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the
>> blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin
>> with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade
>> push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the
>> table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned
>> fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered
>> that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction
>> manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood
>> against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too
>> far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being
>> cut.
>>
> Sounds like good sense to me.
>
>> I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero
>> clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully
>> adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I
>> have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far.
>>
> I don't use zero clearance inserts, but like you, use the splitter
> whenever I can. My original TS which I still use for its absolute accuracy
> and wide range of options has a splitter and a guard that can be
> removed/replaced in seconds.
> My cheap 12' chinese ripsaw has a guard that comes off/ goes on in
> seconds. The splitter, which rises & falls and tilts with the blade, is
> also independently adjustable for height, which means when ripping beyond
> the 4" depth of cut of the blade and flipping over for a second cut to
> splt the piece in two, the splitter can remain in place, - just adjusted a
> fraction lower than the blade height.
>
> To diverge a little, that saw has given me much pause for thought. Had I
> not already had a TS that did most of what I needed, I wouldn't have
> considered it. Too cheap. I did end up buying it on the basis that I
> really only needed it to split 7" x2" boards into 7 x 3/4 or 7 x 1/2. I
> was prepared for a fair amount of wastage and cleanup effort to achieve
> that , seeing as how it was so cheap. Had low expectations.
>
> The reality is, that it is accurate. Dead accurate. Set it to 90deg on the
> dial, - that's what you get. set it to 45 deg, cut two mitres on adjoining
> faces and a square across the two faces shows no daylight showing
> anywhere. Even the imitation Biesmeyer fence sits perfectly parallel to
> the blade.
> Locks securely. Blade cuts beautifully, good enough faces to glue.It also
> came with two extension tables, plus a roller table and dust extraction
> ports top and bottom. The whole thing cost me AUD$650 with 3 years
> warranty.
>
> So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is
> arguably the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the
> Chinese produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a
> distributor and then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50%
> higher than you pay for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it
> got to me.
> What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing
> and associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've
> always done that with quality.
> But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard,
> delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year,
> what then?
>
> I don't much like the answer I come up with.
Back when Japanese products were considered junk (in the US), I lived in
Japan. You could buy products there that were as good, if not better, than
anything made anywhere. Of course, they also made cheap crap. The cheap crap
is what the American importers were buying as it had the best profit margin
on resale. No one would pay near US prices for things that had always had
the reputation as junk. As people got more used to Japanese made items, the
importers started bringing in higher quality (and higher priced) products as
people were becoming willing to pay for it. I would bet that China is at the
same point now. Quality products made in China probably are available but
the importers buying it go for the low end. Remember, Americans have been in
China teaching them manufacturing for years.
Leon said:
>The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper
>procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces
>and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small
>piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade.
Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed
thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and
remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to
build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit.
Greg G.
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
>> design, would you put the guard back on?
>>
>> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>>
>
>
> Yeah, that cracks me up. I scanned through that thread, and maybe I
> missed it. I saw a lot of people saying they, "learned their lesson,"
> but none who the put their guards back on. :-)
>
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Some of us have managed to cut ourselves (or worse) with the guard *on*.
There is no end to a human beings capacity for stupid behaviour, ........
of which I'm a typical example.
diggerop
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:36:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine
> that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws.
> They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection
> capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed
> and replaced too, an incentive to use it.
>
> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
> design, would you put the guard back on?
>
> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
The problem of course is that some operations can't be done with the
guard in place unless you have one of those fancy aftermarket overhead
guards.
For example, when I said I was ripping a piece of wood to 2.5", that was
somewhat simplified. What I was really doing was ripping 1/4" off of a
3" wide board. With the guard in place, the 1/4" offcut, which was what
I wanted, would have fit inside the guard and probably been chewed to
bits by the blade.
A riving knife OTOH would be very nice if there was one available for my
saw, but there isn't. I do use a splitter but that has to be removed in
order to make a cut that doesn't go all the way through.
Since my accident, I have been considering some way to suspend my guard
an inch above the table. With the strange design of my ancient Delta it
just might be doable.
Damm it's hard to type with one thumb wrapped up like a mummy. You
wouldn't believe how many times I've hit backspace to write this!
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
> design, would you put the guard back on?
>
> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>
Yeah, that cracks me up. I scanned through that thread, and maybe I
missed it. I saw a lot of people saying they, "learned their lesson,"
but none who the put their guards back on. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
diggerop wrote:
> Some of us have managed to cut ourselves (or worse) with the guard *on*.
> There is no end to a human beings capacity for stupid behaviour,
> ........ of which I'm a typical example.
>
> diggerop
I agree that our stupidness can conquer any attempt we take to make
things safe.
However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their
finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
I also agree that making them easier to put on/take off would help
matters. I'm thinking of using wingnut fasteners for the back end of
mine, and a cam-nut for the front end. Seems like having to dig up the
proper wrench can be the deterrent that results in a trip to the ER.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Leon wrote:
> "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker
>> magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for
>> table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have
>> dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to
>> be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it.
>>
>> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a
>> better design, would you put the guard back on?
>>
>> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws?
>
> The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using
> proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and
> shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause
> kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the
> guard and the blade.
Rather difficult to use many kinds of jig with them as well.
diggerop wrote:
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their
>> finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
>>
> Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how
> kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder
> if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP
> and complain.
>
> diggerop
I'm sure your reader/server is fine.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
> Complacency is the death of many a digit.
>
>
> Greg G.
Exactly. That's the same with any power tool or any tool for that matter.
"I don't need to 'call before I dig.' I remember where they buried that
electric line." :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
diggerop said:
>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their
>> finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
>>
>Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how
>kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if
>my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and
>complain.
Funny.
My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the
blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin
with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade
push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the
table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned
fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered
that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction
manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood
against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too
far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being
cut.
I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero
clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully
adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I
have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far.
http://webpages.charter.net/videodoctor/images/TableSawInserts1.jpg
FWIW,
Greg G.
Speaking of mangled digits, I was at a friend's house a few years
back. He knew my love of woodworking and took me to the basement
to show me his shop. Along the wall was a Sears RAS and I
commented to him that while I had used mine frequently, that it
always scared me for some reason. I told him that I'd learned to
pull the truck out using my body and not my arm: I would lock my
elbow and wrist, then use the weight of my body to pull the truck
out and across the wood. I explained that this seemed to help
prevent the blade from binding and "climbing" across a thinner
piece.
He smiled and held up his left thumb, or what was left of it, to
show me he understood the issue.
--
Nonny
What does it mean when drool runs
out of both sides of a drunken
Congressman's mouth?
The floor is level.
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that
> there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They
> incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability.
> One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced
> too, an incentive to use it.
>
> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
> design, would you put the guard back on?
>
No.
Larry
I believe this was mentioned before but the product at this web page
http://www.microjig.com/ is very useful in the situation you described. I
bought two of these when I got back into woodworking after a 30 year haitus
and find them to be one of the most useful safety tools in the shop. They
allow you to keep constant downward pressure on a rip cut all the way to the
completion of the cut.
Russ
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:36:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine
>> that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws.
>> They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection
>> capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed
>> and replaced too, an incentive to use it.
>>
>> It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better
>> design, would you put the guard back on?
>>
>> Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
>
> The problem of course is that some operations can't be done with the
> guard in place unless you have one of those fancy aftermarket overhead
> guards.
>
> For example, when I said I was ripping a piece of wood to 2.5", that was
> somewhat simplified. What I was really doing was ripping 1/4" off of a
> 3" wide board. With the guard in place, the 1/4" offcut, which was what
> I wanted, would have fit inside the guard and probably been chewed to
> bits by the blade.
>
> A riving knife OTOH would be very nice if there was one available for my
> saw, but there isn't. I do use a splitter but that has to be removed in
> order to make a cut that doesn't go all the way through.
>
> Since my accident, I have been considering some way to suspend my guard
> an inch above the table. With the strange design of my ancient Delta it
> just might be doable.
>
> Damm it's hard to type with one thumb wrapped up like a mummy. You
> wouldn't believe how many times I've hit backspace to write this!
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> diggerop said:
>
>>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their
>>> finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
>>>
>>Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how
>>kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if
>>my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and
>>complain.
>
> Funny.
> My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the
> blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin
> with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade
> push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the
> table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned
> fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered
> that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction
> manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood
> against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too
> far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being
> cut.
>
Sounds like good sense to me.
> I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero
> clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully
> adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I
> have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far.
>
I don't use zero clearance inserts, but like you, use the splitter whenever
I can. My original TS which I still use for its absolute accuracy and wide
range of options has a splitter and a guard that can be removed/replaced in
seconds.
My cheap 12' chinese ripsaw has a guard that comes off/ goes on in seconds.
The splitter, which rises & falls and tilts with the blade, is also
independently adjustable for height, which means when ripping beyond the 4"
depth of cut of the blade and flipping over for a second cut to splt the
piece in two, the splitter can remain in place, - just adjusted a fraction
lower than the blade height.
To diverge a little, that saw has given me much pause for thought. Had I not
already had a TS that did most of what I needed, I wouldn't have considered
it. Too cheap. I did end up buying it on the basis that I really only needed
it to split 7" x2" boards into 7 x 3/4 or 7 x 1/2. I was prepared for a
fair amount of wastage and cleanup effort to achieve that , seeing as how it
was so cheap. Had low expectations.
The reality is, that it is accurate. Dead accurate. Set it to 90deg on the
dial, - that's what you get. set it to 45 deg, cut two mitres on adjoining
faces and a square across the two faces shows no daylight showing anywhere.
Even the imitation Biesmeyer fence sits perfectly parallel to the blade.
Locks securely. Blade cuts beautifully, good enough faces to glue.It also
came with two extension tables, plus a roller table and dust extraction
ports top and bottom. The whole thing cost me AUD$650 with 3 years warranty.
So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is arguably
the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the Chinese
produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a distributor and
then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50% higher than you pay
for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it got to me.
What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing and
associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've always
done that with quality.
But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard,
delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year, what
then?
I don't much like the answer I come up with.
diggerop
Ed Pawlowski said:
>
>"Greg G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and
>> much of what is used on construction sites.
>>
>
>From what I read, even the cheap saws will be better than in the past. If
If importers would stop buying the cheapest stuff available to fill
the big box stores it would have already improved. As diggerop
mentioned, there are some interesting pieces out there, we just don't
see them on these shores much/yet. And for the few importers that
actually have any input into the manufacturing process, it's not
rocket science - stop being so damned cheap and lazy. The Taiwanese,
Indians, and Chinese sure won't be - they're hungry for your dollars.
>you are spending though $1000 and up, way up, for a good saw, it should be
>fitted with a guard that is sensible, workable, safe, and actually
>encourages use.
You would think. That was one of the big disappointments of the
Unisaw. I think it went 20 years without any major upgrades - other
than a trendy, yet dated X splashed across the front and in the model
number. Heavy, reliable saw, but the guard and splitter were a joke.
The Powermatic2000 and SawStop upped the ante in the saw market.
Greg G.
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:15:34 -0600, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit.
>I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever
>mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration.
Actually, all his shows comment right at the end that guards are
removed for photographic purposes.