hvlp

Actually, I did do a search. And I wasn't too pleased with what I
found. The questions and answers sort of danced around what I asked,
but didn't hit it exactly. Also, I was hoping to get new information.
Like "hey there's this new gun that just came out". Or maybe there's a
new person with something to add that isn't in the archives. And since
it's cheap to post and reply, who cares? If you don't want to rehash
this again, don't respond.

brian

Brian - here's my .02.

I paint a few houses a year, and I use a small Graco dx model. After a
recent price drop, they are now only $300 plus change. This will spray
the thickest latex you can imagine (the highest end stuff is almost
glop), and I spray about 200 gallons a year out of it. I never thin
any of the paint, and I never have had a spot of trouble with it in the
last 4 years. With the setup that comes with it, you can spray
directly from a gallon can, or a five gallon can. Different tips are
available to spray oil based paint, varnish, and other more viscuous
finishes. It is probably the smallest turbine powered airless you can
get, but worth every penny.

That will take care of your latex, oil, and maybe some other finishes.
Tip spray other finishes are about $18, and there are a lot of them.
One thing though... you will only get good mileage out of this machine
if you clean it well every time you use it, and if it goes into storage
use the recommended pump storage fluid.

Now for oil based only. This will make some of the pros cringe...

Check this out: http://tinyurl.com/97mtk

I have one of these guns and I use them to paint metal doors after I
install them, as well as metal garage doors, burglar bars, and any
other surface requiring oil based material. The gun is small, easy to
handle, and does a helluva job. It only handles about 7 oz of paint
though, so if you were going to paint your car you would have no end of
problems with this as the capacity is so small. The best part is you
can run it off a small compressor (which I take to the site anyway) as
the air requirements are so small. Since I run the gun at about 45 -
50 psi, I always have constant pressure as the compressor kicks on at
about 80 pounds so I never notice a drop.

Here's a good tip on something I found by accident. I mix my paint in
a sports bottle (Goodwill, .35 ea.) that has gradients on the side.
That way I can mix how much I need accurately, and then have a
resealable bottle for the balance of he paint or when I need a refill.
The thinned paint stays in perfect condition for several days in the
current lot of bottles I am buying, and for convenience sake I can mix
bigger batches of paint.

One of my amigos showed me the above referenced gun and he told me he
uses it for furniture finishing and refinishing. He bought it on a
lark because of price, and now he keeps two or three around that are
dedicated to certain finishes. He shoots lacquer and poly out of it
with no problems. He has even painted a fender or two, but no complete
cars. It has a good volume control and pattern control (round to fan
only) and seems pretty well made. I can't tell you how surprised I was
when I started using this gun. I couldn't recommend it enough as a
great gun to experiment with to learn how to spray different oil or
solvent based finishes. Likewise how to cut, retard, and accelerate
the finishes you are interested in using.. Sometimes in my mind I
think everything in HF is crap...

But remember, when you make air, you make water. You MUST have a drier
on your machine before it gets to the gun, and you MUST have a good
gauge and regulator to make sure you have quality air. However, this
will be the case on >any< gun you run from a compressor. And your
compressor question will be answered by the gun you choose. Some are
real air hogs, and some are just piglets. Find out which gun you want
first and use that as your jumping off point on compressors. Any
compressor you buy to run a spray gun will almost definitely run a
large variety of air powered sanders, nailers, etc.

I haven't seen a setup that does both latex and oil finishes really
well. I am sure that there are those here that know of such an animal,
but they all seem to have their drawbacks, even if it just the amount
of pain you go through to clean the machine/guns.

Good luck.

Robert

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
> > selecting a conversion gun.
> >
>
> I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true, that they
> don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated it, they go into the
> same list of requirements that everyone else before them has stated. Sure,
> those are great considerations when guying a gun, but why not do a simple
> search that takes only seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of
> information, instead of posting what you know is something that has been
> addressed to death?

Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of
new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.

JP
********************************************
Original topics only. No repeats. Redundant, ad nauseum political
rantings are AOK.

Mike Marlow wrote:
<snip of long rant from top of I've been here longer soapbox ranting>

Buzz off. The question's on topic. Ask what you want Brian - don't
let some net nanny get you down.

JP
**************************
Do it my way.

David wrote:

[snip]

> Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
> the proper tip.

Dave,

I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.

Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).

What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike:

I will be glad to take your council as you seem all the way up to speed
on this topic. I do >really< like my little Binks knock off, and in
fact for $10 I am going over to HF to get another one today. I have
been spraying a urethane industrial coating from Coronado that is
supposed to be used in heavy industrial areas, and does not require
priming except on flaking rust. I have used it before, and it is like
shooting glue. A few uses and the gun is getting cranky, so for $10, I
won't sweat it.

Here's my situation I would like for you to ponder. I am a
remodel/repair contractor, and I do a lot of door only installations
for a local lumberyard that sells a lot of metal doors. These folks
want their doors painted, so I make an additional $$ to paint the door.
Although it is done all the time around here, I can't stand latex on
metal. When I hang an occasional wood door, I just brush them out.

When I know I am painting a metal door (front door, back door), I take
my larger pancake (2 hp - 4.6 cfm @40 psi and 2.4 cfm at 90) and it
will run the little gun just fine. Plenty of air, just the right
amount of paint. If I mix/thin up 16 oz of paint in my sport bottle,
it will spray two coats each side of a 3' door, which is perfect. I
usually put in about 3 - 4 drops of Japan drier in the cup before
spraying on colder, damper days and it works just fine.

When I spray burglar bars, that little gun is a champ. Remember that
your average bars are made out of some kind of 1" frame with 1/2" bars
and some kind of curly design in the middle. 1" fan, volume open all
the way, it tears them up. Refilling is a little annoying, but
compared to the days of when we used to hand brush those babies for
hours, it is a blessing to have to refill. (The house I am finishing
out right now has 20 sets on them, mostly large 6 to 8 ft wide and 5 ft
tall to compliment the ranch style house).

OK.. I am gettin' around to my question.

Is there a larger capacity gun that I could run with my portable
compressor? I often send my guys one way, and I go another as it
doesn't take two of us to hang a door. Nor does it take two to paint.
So I take all my equipment and haul it in the back of the truck, and
when I go to the seedier parts of town I put the compressor in the
front seat of the truck. Point being I have the biggest luggable I
could get with the most power to match up to the best gun I could find
to do the job. And after 30 years of doing this, I am not going to buy
a bigger compressor to haul around.. my tired old butt just doesn't
want to fool with unloading some monster at the end of the day.

So it there a gun that will do all the stuff this one will do that has
higher resovoir capacity and will throw just a little more paint when
spraying? I tend to build coats, so I get a lot of coverage - but I'll
bet I filled that little gun ten times for all those bars. And they
are now ready for their second coat. With the paint premixed, it
actually only takes about a minute or two to release the cup and fill,
but nonetheless I am always looking for something better.

Given my compressor limitation (the compressor has to go out to the job
with me, completely, easily portable) do you know of a gun that will do
what I want?

FWIW, I didn't get why some hair raised over you suggesting to search
the archives here. Two things - you were quite civil. Not too long
ago, many would just answer with DAGS. Nothing else.

The other thing some don't get is that the archives are the highest and
best use of this NG. More practical info here than a library. And
over the years faces, people, experiences, interests, etc. all change
and that sometimes is reflected back over here. And as for all the
questions that are the mainstay of this group (which table saw should I
buy? has anyone used PC routers and are they any good? etc., etc.) I
honestly think many don't know the archives are searchable.

Robert

Wow, Mike. Thanks a million for taking the time and effort to put
together that post on the guns. I think that will be a real help,
especially knowing that some of the guns will work with a little less
CFM than advertised. You can't know these things without practicle
experience, and as a carpenter by trade, my experience with the finer
points of spraying oil based finish is limited.

The compressor I am using is new and strong, and all but a couple of my
hoses are 3/8" since they recover my framing/roofing guns more quickly.
So I should be in good shape there. I am going to pass along your
post to an amigo of mine that has a couple of unsatisfactory guns (I am
suspicioning lack of good cleaning), but a large compressor we use to
spray (some 50 gallon industrial monster) when we can transport the
victim to his shop. I keep my water trap/air filter/regulator
combination in a case with the correct hose fittings, and just take it
with me if I see him or spray out on site.

<<Not latex guns, but latex is right next to MDF in my opinion. >>

Awww.... c'mon now. Try the high end of some of the newer acrylics on
house painting. Proper prep (as with all painting, the key) and a
couple of good coats of the high end stuff and the wear and adhesion is
amazing. Some of the new siding and houses we painted years ago almost
look as good as the day we walked off. That says a lot with out 100+
degree summers we have. I think it may have to do with what you are
painting.

At any rate, thanks once more. I will wait for you to get by HF and
see what you find. If you would, start a new thread and just ping me
with any info or an updated opinon on anything you find. Sure do
appreciate it.

Robert

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Mike Marlow wrote:
> > <snip of long rant from top of I've been here longer soapbox ranting>
> >
> > Buzz off. The question's on topic. Ask what you want Brian - don't
> > let some net nanny get you down.
> >
> > JP
> > **************************
> > Do it my way.
> >
>
> I'm sorry - I did not realize you were the moderator of this group. Pot -
> kettle.

"Buzz off" is a colloquialism there champ. By all means continue to
post as you please.

JP
********************
For the flaming impaired.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > It sounds like you might want to take a break from your self appointed job
> > of being group moderator. The stress is really starting to show.
> >
> >
>
> And you Frank seem to be taking exception with everyone here who suggests
> what is a long established usenet courtesy. Rebel without a cause?

Not everyone Mike. What's *your* cause, btw?

JP

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Reading comprehension is a valuable asset - you should try it some time. I
> never suggested the post was OT. But then again, that wouldn't matter now,
> would it?

Are you a moron in real life, or just here on usenet? (I'm not
implying anything.)

JP
***********************
Force a bad position.

Mike Marlow wrote:

> And that (in paraphrase, though certainly not accurately) represented my
> opinion. Seems some like yourself have a great deal of difficulty with some
> opinions, if they are not in keeping with your own.

None at all, actually. You were wrong, we were right, so we told you.
Plus, you're boring, so I felt obligated to be a little mean.

JP

Mike Marlow wrote:

> And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure chest
> of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to each his
> own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic expectation
> these days.

Now a strawman? What are you, like 15?

JP

Mike Marlow wrote:

> I stand up and fight for the rights of women to parade naked through the
> streets. But only if they're under 180 lbs.

And for that I thank you. Let me know next time they're rallying and
I'll help with crowd control.

JP
************************************
I will fight no more forever.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> > > And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure
> chest
> > > of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to each
> his
> > > own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic expectation
> > > these days.
> >
> > Now a strawman? What are you, like 15?
> >
>
> Huh? Strawman? It was my only point from the beginning.

He said he knew the subject had been beaten to death - he knows there
are (many) old posts on the subject. So he has invested some time.
Now you trot out your snotty "Seems like investing any time is
considered an unrealistic expectation these days", which I'm sure was
followed by a tired sigh and disapproving shake of your head. I take
back my 15 year old snipe and now put you at half-past-dead and grumpy
that things aren't "like they used to be".

JP
*********************
Posting with abandon.

I'm not necessarily spraying latex. The truth is that I know next to
nothing about paint. All I want to do is be able to spray some paint
on kids furniture maybe. If oil based paint is better for that, then
maybe that's what I should be using. I'm not sure.

brian

Mike Marlow wrote:

> Whatever Jay. You have become tiring. Here - I'll leave you a place for
> the last word ______________.

Thanks, Mike. It's good to see you doing the right thing.

JP

ljaques wrote:

<<Pop another tank on there and you'll have more than enough spare air
for most small to medium jobs (everything you mentioned) Robert. >>

I have one of those things, and have never even used it. It was given
to be by another contractor that never used it either. I may try that
out as the extra air capacity might overcome or at least compensate for
the lack of CFMs. Especially if I jump up to one of those guns that
Mike was pointing out.

Thanks -

Robert

"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
> the proper tip. Without breaking the bank, it's difficult for "thick
> paint" and HVLP to coexist, Brian. My rig ran over $1,200 and I was
> hesitant to spend that much, but the more I researched it, the more I
> realized there's no way around it. I looked at other brands, but they
> weren't as comfortable to hold, or they were "bleeders". After months
> of indecision, I realized that since I needed a versatile HVLP set up, I
> was going to need to pony up the big bucks. Eventually I bought extra
> tips and caps so that I can spray anything from water based dyes, all
> the way up to latex paint. If you can skip the requirement of spraying
> thick paint, your options are much broader at lesser cost.

Holy Cow David - you went the expensive route. My guns are all mid-line pro
quality at a minimum and I've never spent over $200 on a gun. I spray a
lot. I do a lot of automotive painting as well as finishes on wood.
Though... I don't spray latex. That must be one heck of a setup you've got
there. I can't think of any autobody guys that shoot with a gun that
expensive.

>
> what's the cfm of the PC you are looking at? Personally I don't like
> the idea of using a compressor with fine finishes because I don't relish
> getting contaminates in the finish. I've found affordable moisture and
> oil filters to be only partially effective. Maybe others have had
> better luck, but I prefer a turbine HVLP.
>

Contaminates in the finish are very easy to avoid with only a small amount
of diligence. Heck - look at all of the cars on the road that have been
painted with a basic oil lubed compressor and a gun. The simple orange bulb
does a remarkable job at trapping moisture. Couple that with draining the
tank just before shooting, and you've got a 100% effective solution. But,
like you say in your closing statement - it is somewhat about preference and
that goes a long way to making a guy happy.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> > And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure
chest
> > of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to each
his
> > own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic expectation
> > these days.
>
> Now a strawman? What are you, like 15?
>

Huh? Strawman? It was my only point from the beginning.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow (in [email protected]) said:
>
> | "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | news:[email protected]...
> ||
> || I've bought three of these darned
> || conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm
> || satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest
> || part of my problem).
> |
> | Can I offer some assistance?
>
> Most definitely (and Thank You!) but, if it's OK with you, I'll take a
> rain check until my schedule allows me to spend some time
> experimenting - and I'll need to do some archive reading of my own
> before then.
>

If you're inclined, there is a diatribe I posted a while ago - maybe a year
ago (?) that covered a lot of technique stuff. As I recall it really was a
diatribe. Have some strong coffee on hand to ward off the tendency to fall
asleep. If you find it and it's helpful, then great. If you find it and
it's not helpful, then fire away - we'll create a new diatribe. I you don't
find it, fire away anyway. Despite all of my "quirks", I do enjoy being
able to offer something of help, so we can step through it all again.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Actually, I did do a search. And I wasn't too pleased with what I
> found. The questions and answers sort of danced around what I asked,
> but didn't hit it exactly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There has been a ton of stuff talked
about and all sorts of points raised and answered - quite directly. But...
not necessarily so, if your questions remain unanswered. I didn't see
anything in your questions that was not addressed several times in the stuff
that's been bantered about here, so I'll just come out and ask... which
questions remain unanswered?


> Also, I was hoping to get new information.
> Like "hey there's this new gun that just came out". Or maybe there's a
> new person with something to add that isn't in the archives. And since
> it's cheap to post and reply, who cares? If you don't want to rehash
> this again, don't respond.

The last part of that statement is what can make a guy say "fXXk you". You
know Brian - it's not too much to suggest that folks do an archive search.
Whether you did one or not is not apparent from your original post - in fact
it appeared to me that you didn't or you didn't bother to look too hard.
Perhaps I was wrong - I'm willing to stand corrected on that single point,
but I really don't accept well the "if you don't want to rehash this again,
don't respond" stuff. What's the matter - did I crap in your personal
playground by suggesting a search? That's what it seems.

Understand something Brian - it's more than just some folks not wanting to
see a particular thread start up or question asked because it somehow
inconveniences them or disturbs them. Some of us have invested *a lot* of
time into detailing answers and pointers and recommendations to these
questions over time. We did it in the name of sharing, in order to help
other folks out. Such is the nature of a group like this. In turn, we get
our questions answered. But the point is the effort has been invested in
answering this stuff and there does exist a good archive of these answers.
Yes - you do get a bit tired of answering the same things over and over
again. Especially when a little effort would reveal a wealth of
information. Everything from compressor selection to gun selection (by
type) to gun experiences (by manufacturer and model), to spray technique, to
problem solving (why do I get orange peel), to repair of spray defects has
been either thrown about here, or really chased in detail. Sure - there's
always room for the question that asks "hey has anything really changed in
this area?", implying perhaps a question as to new guns or something
similar, but that's really an entirely different question. I responded to
the question asked. It is a longstanding expectation of usenet/netnews that
the poster will do a little search when he/she expects that the question is
something that has "been beaten to death".

I responded the way that I did because your post did not ask the questions
you're now suggesting was their intent. You really asked the same stuff
that has been addressed a lot here. A search *would* have directly answered
some/most of your questions - not danced around them. That stuff has indeed
been discussed directly and in some depth here. I guess in the end, I stand
by my original thoughts thought, and (seemingly in conflict with...) should
you have any questions or confusion remaining after reviewing what exists in
the archives, and I can offer any insights or help in specific areas, I
remain willing to do so. Sometimes you just want to see a guy put in the
effort and not take the short cut and ignore all of the effort that others
have put in by just asking what he wants now.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> > Reading comprehension is a valuable asset - you should try it some time.
I
> > never suggested the post was OT. But then again, that wouldn't matter
now,
> > would it?
>
> Are you a moron in real life, or just here on usenet? (I'm not
> implying anything.)
>

No, I just don't care to be mischaracterized.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Is there a larger capacity gun that I could run with my portable
> compressor? I often send my guys one way, and I go another as it
> doesn't take two of us to hang a door. Nor does it take two to paint.
> So I take all my equipment and haul it in the back of the truck, and
> when I go to the seedier parts of town I put the compressor in the
> front seat of the truck. Point being I have the biggest luggable I
> could get with the most power to match up to the best gun I could find
> to do the job. And after 30 years of doing this, I am not going to buy
> a bigger compressor to haul around.. my tired old butt just doesn't
> want to fool with unloading some monster at the end of the day.

Here's a link to the HF knock off of the Binks model 7. A great all-in-all
utility gun. A bit wasteful because it's not HVLP, so you can anticipate
30-50% waste with this type of gun. My experience is that it's closer to
30% than 50%. Good fast coverage, even flow and a one quart cup. Just a
workhorse of a reliable gun. It's a little demanding of a pancake
compressor though. If you stay with the guns that are spec'd at around 6
CFM, your compressor should support them, even though it's rated lower.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=30224


Given you have a compressor already that is less delivery, this one might
work. I've never shot this gun, but my bet is it will deliver a decent
coverage. It's probably not going to give an equal degree of control over
the fan and the air delivery, but that may not be a show stopper. It likely
has some plastic inside where the other one has brass, but again - that's
not always a show stopper, especially with light use. It really wants
about 6CFM, but you can probably get by on 4-5.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43760

In either case, the little hose on the top of the cup is a problem area -
throw it away. Let the cup breath through the hole and just don't tip the
gun past the point where it wants to drip out of the breather. You'll get a
lot of useable angle before it wants to drip.

The DeVilbiss knock off below is a good gun - typically sprays nicer than
the Binks style guns, but does not lay on the paint like a Binks style.
You can cheat the required CFM a bit and they will still spray ok.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91011

To take it to the HVLP level, this is a perfectly useable gun, I would
probably consider...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90977

Net/net, in my opinion - the best all around, I want only one gun to do it
all would be the model 7 knock off or the DeVilbiss knock off. Not latex
guns, but latex is right next to MDF in my opinion.

>
> So it there a gun that will do all the stuff this one will do that has
> higher resovoir capacity and will throw just a little more paint when
> spraying? I tend to build coats, so I get a lot of coverage - but I'll
> bet I filled that little gun ten times for all those bars. And they
> are now ready for their second coat. With the paint premixed, it
> actually only takes about a minute or two to release the cup and fill,
> but nonetheless I am always looking for something better.

The 1quart guns will address the cup size issue nicely and you can lock the
fan down to a nice tight pattern for those smaller bars.

>
> Given my compressor limitation (the compressor has to go out to the job
> with me, completely, easily portable) do you know of a gun that will do
> what I want?

At 4.6 CFM, the guns that require around 6 CFM will work - but like I say,
use a 3/8 hose.

I get down to the local HF store every week or two and I should be down
there again in the coming week. Give me a couple of days and I'll go and
check out the guns and give you a better opinion once I take a look at them.

>
> FWIW, I didn't get why some hair raised over you suggesting to search
> the archives here. Two things - you were quite civil. Not too long
> ago, many would just answer with DAGS. Nothing else.
>
> The other thing some don't get is that the archives are the highest and
> best use of this NG. More practical info here than a library. And
> over the years faces, people, experiences, interests, etc. all change
> and that sometimes is reflected back over here. And as for all the
> questions that are the mainstay of this group (which table saw should I
> buy? has anyone used PC routers and are they any good? etc., etc.) I
> honestly think many don't know the archives are searchable.
>

My delivery perhaps. Actually, I tried not to be abrasive initially, but
maybe that didn't come through. Some folks just don't like the suggestion
of what has been the way of usenet for decades and seem to jump to the net
nanny line. I don't lose a lot of sleep over those. I do appreciate your
comment though.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> <<Not latex guns, but latex is right next to MDF in my opinion. >>
>
> Awww.... c'mon now. Try the high end of some of the newer acrylics on
> house painting. Proper prep (as with all painting, the key) and a
> couple of good coats of the high end stuff and the wear and adhesion is
> amazing. Some of the new siding and houses we painted years ago almost
> look as good as the day we walked off. That says a lot with out 100+
> degree summers we have. I think it may have to do with what you are
> painting.
>

Ok - I must fess up. I don't get into house painting because I live in a
log home. I shoot some preservative on it every 5 or 6 years and salute it
from the front yard. Inside, my wife does all the painting. So... I
cheerfully escape that which you point out. I love painting cars but I hate
painting in the house.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

You are right on the money regarding "affordable" filters. The cost of the
better units caused me to go the turbine route. However, since the OP is
spraying latex a conversion gun sounds better and he is not worried about a
"fine" finish so a bit of oil or water spots will not be noticeable. Cheers,
JG

David wrote:

> brianlanning wrote:
>
> > I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
> > selecting a conversion gun.
> >
> > I'd like to avoid tubines as I'd prefer to have less noise, and I'd
> > like to have a large compressor anyway.
> >
> > I'm hoping to spray poly (or poly mixed with tung oil or stain) and
> > rather thick paints for kids furniture. I can see spraying other
> > finishes in the future though. And some day trying to spray cars. I'd
> > like easy clean up. Price matters, but I'm willing to spend what it
> > takes to get a good one. I probably don't need a pro gun. A price
> > around a couple hundred would be about right, unless I can get
> > something equally good for less. I was thinking to get probably the
> > 80 gallon porter cable on amazon for $850 (minus $150). What kind of
> > CFMs should I really be looking for? thanks
> >
> > brian
> >
> Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
> the proper tip. Without breaking the bank, it's difficult for "thick
> paint" and HVLP to coexist, Brian. My rig ran over $1,200 and I was
> hesitant to spend that much, but the more I researched it, the more I
> realized there's no way around it. I looked at other brands, but they
> weren't as comfortable to hold, or they were "bleeders". After months
> of indecision, I realized that since I needed a versatile HVLP set up, I
> was going to need to pony up the big bucks. Eventually I bought extra
> tips and caps so that I can spray anything from water based dyes, all
> the way up to latex paint. If you can skip the requirement of spraying
> thick paint, your options are much broader at lesser cost.
>
> what's the cfm of the PC you are looking at? Personally I don't like
> the idea of using a compressor with fine finishes because I don't relish
> getting contaminates in the finish. I've found affordable moisture and
> oil filters to be only partially effective. Maybe others have had
> better luck, but I prefer a turbine HVLP.
>
> Dave

"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow (in [email protected]) said:
>
> | I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true,
> | that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated
> | it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else
> | before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when
> | guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only
> | seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of
> | posting what you know is something that has been addressed to death?
>
> Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product that
> doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
>

Sure, but how does doing a little research one's self and checking the
archives first defeat that objective?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Mike Marlow wrote:
> > > <snip of long rant from top of I've been here longer soapbox ranting>
> > >
> > > Buzz off. The question's on topic. Ask what you want Brian - don't
> > > let some net nanny get you down.
> > >
> > > JP
> > > **************************
> > > Do it my way.
> > >
> >
> > I'm sorry - I did not realize you were the moderator of this group.
Pot -
> > kettle.
>
> "Buzz off" is a colloquialism there champ. By all means continue to
> post as you please.
>

I've been here a while but somehow I missed that. I'm sorry.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> It sounds like you might want to take a break from your self appointed job
> of being group moderator. The stress is really starting to show.
>
>

And you Frank seem to be taking exception with everyone here who suggests
what is a long established usenet courtesy. Rebel without a cause?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
> selecting a conversion gun.
>

I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true, that they
don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated it, they go into the
same list of requirements that everyone else before them has stated. Sure,
those are great considerations when guying a gun, but why not do a simple
search that takes only seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of
information, instead of posting what you know is something that has been
addressed to death?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Mike Marlow wrote:
> > >
> > > > And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure
> > chest
> > > > of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to
each
> > his
> > > > own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic
expectation
> > > > these days.
> > >
> > > Now a strawman? What are you, like 15?
> > >
> >
> > Huh? Strawman? It was my only point from the beginning.
>
> He said he knew the subject had been beaten to death - he knows there
> are (many) old posts on the subject. So he has invested some time.
> Now you trot out your snotty "Seems like investing any time is
> considered an unrealistic expectation these days", which I'm sure was
> followed by a tired sigh and disapproving shake of your head. I take
> back my 15 year old snipe and now put you at half-past-dead and grumpy
> that things aren't "like they used to be".
>

Whatever Jay. You have become tiring. Here - I'll leave you a place for
the last word ______________.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >
> > > It sounds like you might want to take a break from your self appointed
job
> > > of being group moderator. The stress is really starting to show.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > And you Frank seem to be taking exception with everyone here who
suggests
> > what is a long established usenet courtesy. Rebel without a cause?
>
> Not everyone Mike. What's *your* cause, btw?
>

I stand up and fight for the rights of women to parade naked through the
streets. But only if they're under 180 lbs.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brian - here's my .02.
>
>
> That will take care of your latex, oil, and maybe some other finishes.
> Tip spray other finishes are about $18, and there are a lot of them.
> One thing though... you will only get good mileage out of this machine
> if you clean it well every time you use it, and if it goes into storage
> use the recommended pump storage fluid.

Sound advice for any gun. Clean is good.

>
> Now for oil based only. This will make some of the pros cringe...
>
> Check this out: http://tinyurl.com/97mtk

Cringe???? Hell, this is a knock off of a Binks jam and trim gun. Terrific
gun. I have the original Binks and I use it a lot. So much easier than
mixing up enough for a big gun and so much easier to dip and dive around
small areas. The patents on these classic guns has long ago expired and
there's a ton of perfectly good knock offs out there. They work great and
in some cases the parts are actually interchangeable with the original gun
they are copying.

>
> I have one of these guns and I use them to paint metal doors after I
> install them, as well as metal garage doors, burglar bars, and any
> other surface requiring oil based material. The gun is small, easy to
> handle, and does a helluva job. It only handles about 7 oz of paint
> though, so if you were going to paint your car you would have no end of
> problems with this as the capacity is so small. The best part is you
> can run it off a small compressor (which I take to the site anyway) as
> the air requirements are so small. Since I run the gun at about 45 -
> 50 psi, I always have constant pressure as the compressor kicks on at
> about 80 pounds so I never notice a drop.
>
>
> One of my amigos showed me the above referenced gun and he told me he
> uses it for furniture finishing and refinishing. He bought it on a
> lark because of price, and now he keeps two or three around that are
> dedicated to certain finishes. He shoots lacquer and poly out of it
> with no problems. He has even painted a fender or two, but no complete
> cars.

It would be too small for a complete. It's really not good for a fender,
but could be forced into cooperation. It doesn't deliver the right amount
of paint for a complete and like you've said, you'll be spending more time
filling it than shooting it. But... the big brother to this gun is the
knock off of the Binks model 7. It'll do the job. Really a better primer
gun because the model 7 thows some paint, but for just a single stage paint,
it would work. The model 7 knock off might even be a good recommendation
for you to consider for the bigger projects like garage doors. I think you
might find it easier to get nicer finishes with it than the trim gun.

>
> I haven't seen a setup that does both latex and oil finishes really
> well. I am sure that there are those here that know of such an animal,
> but they all seem to have their drawbacks, even if it just the amount
> of pain you go through to clean the machine/guns.
>

Ohhhhhh..... just wait until you shoot your first epoxy primer through that
trim gun. Then you'll know the real meaning of "pain to clean".

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> <snip of long rant from top of I've been here longer soapbox ranting>
>
> Buzz off. The question's on topic. Ask what you want Brian - don't
> let some net nanny get you down.
>
> JP
> **************************
> Do it my way.
>

I'm sorry - I did not realize you were the moderator of this group. Pot -
kettle.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
> > > selecting a conversion gun.
> > >
> >
> > I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true, that
they
> > don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated it, they go into
the
> > same list of requirements that everyone else before them has stated.
Sure,
> > those are great considerations when guying a gun, but why not do a
simple
> > search that takes only seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of
> > information, instead of posting what you know is something that has been
> > addressed to death?
>
> Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of
> new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.
>

Reading comprehension is a valuable asset - you should try it some time. I
never suggested the post was OT. But then again, that wouldn't matter now,
would it?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Mike Marlow (in [email protected]) said:

| "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:[email protected]...
||
|| I've bought three of these darned
|| conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm
|| satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest
|| part of my problem).
|
| Can I offer some assistance?

Most definitely (and Thank You!) but, if it's OK with you, I'll take a
rain check until my schedule allows me to spend some time
experimenting - and I'll need to do some archive reading of my own
before then.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

cm wrote:
> I use my single stage hvlp to spray latex paint on doors all the time. I
> even use the new Wagner Control Spray hvlp to spray latex. I get great
> results with 2-3 coats.
>
> AZCRAIG
>
>
> www.vintagetrailersforsale.com
>
>
> "Mike in Idaho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>David wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>>Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
>>> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
>>>the proper tip.
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
>>with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
>>since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
>>tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
>>experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
>>tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
>>trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
>>vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
>>thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
>>putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
>>with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
>>and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.
>>
>>Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
>>coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
>>don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).
>>
>>What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
>>that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
>>can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
>>I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Mike
>>
>
>
>
What percentage water are you adding?

dave

Mike Marlow (in [email protected]) said:

| I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true,
| that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated
| it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else
| before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when
| guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only
| seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of
| posting what you know is something that has been addressed to death?

Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product that
doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Mike Marlow (in [email protected]) said:

| "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:[email protected]...
|| Mike Marlow (in [email protected]) said:
||
||| I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true,
||| that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated
||| it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else
||| before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when
||| guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only
||| seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of
||| posting what you know is something that has been addressed to
||| death?
||
|| Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product
|| that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
|
| Sure, but how does doing a little research one's self and checking
| the archives first defeat that objective?

It doesn't - but Brian's choice of words indicated an awareness of
past discussions (which implies that he'd either lurked or arleady
STFW) and reasonable cluefulness. I've bought three of these darned
conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm
satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest part
of my problem).

During a recent project (a sign - there're photos at
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/PT_Sign.html) I finally cleaned all the
spray equipment, packed it away, and did the painting with roller and
brushes. Before I waste any more time with the darned stuff /I/ will
need to learn more than I've pulled off the wreck so far.

An A-Z spray painting (and perhaps HVLP spray painting) for dummies
web page would probably be a big help for a lot of people. Know of any
good online resources?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >>
>> >> Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of
>> >> new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Reading comprehension is a valuable asset - you should try it some
>> > time.
>> > I
>> > never suggested the post was OT. But then again, that wouldn't matter
>> > now,
>> > would it?
>> >
>> > --
>>
>> No, you decided that the question had been asked too many times.
>>
>>
>
> And that (in paraphrase, though certainly not accurately) represented my
> opinion. Seems some like yourself have a great deal of difficulty with
> some
> opinions, if they are not in keeping with your own.
>
> --
>

I have no problems with differing opinions and love to hear different
ideas...that is why I read newsgroups. I think you might want to take a
step back and take a deep breath. Life is good.

"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> brianlanning wrote:
>
>> I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
>> selecting a conversion gun.
>>
>> I'd like to avoid tubines as I'd prefer to have less noise, and I'd
>> like to have a large compressor anyway.
>>
>> I'm hoping to spray poly (or poly mixed with tung oil or stain) and
>> rather thick paints for kids furniture. I can see spraying other
>> finishes in the future though. And some day trying to spray cars. I'd
>> like easy clean up. Price matters, but I'm willing to spend what it
>> takes to get a good one. I probably don't need a pro gun. A price
>> around a couple hundred would be about right, unless I can get
>> something equally good for less. I was thinking to get probably the
>> 80 gallon porter cable on amazon for $850 (minus $150). What kind of
>> CFMs should I really be looking for? thanks
>>
>> brian
>>
> Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install the
> proper tip. Without breaking the bank, it's difficult for "thick paint"
> and HVLP to coexist, Brian. My rig ran over $1,200 and I was hesitant to
> spend that much, but the more I researched it, the more I realized there's
> no way around it.

I spray thinned latex with the Jet gun and a Sears oiless compressor at my
vacation house. It takes a bit of time but works fine.

I use my single stage hvlp to spray latex paint on doors all the time. I
even use the new Wagner Control Spray hvlp to spray latex. I get great
results with 2-3 coats.

AZCRAIG


www.vintagetrailersforsale.com


"Mike in Idaho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
>> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
>> the proper tip.
>
> Dave,
>
> I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
> with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
> since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
> tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
> experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
> tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
> trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
> vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
> thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
> putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
> with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
> and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.
>
> Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
> coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
> don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).
>
> What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
> that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
> can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
> I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of
>> new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.
>>
>
> Reading comprehension is a valuable asset - you should try it some time.
> I
> never suggested the post was OT. But then again, that wouldn't matter
> now,
> would it?
>
> --

No, you decided that the question had been asked too many times.

"JGS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> You are right on the money regarding "affordable" filters. The cost of the
> better units caused me to go the turbine route. However, since the OP is
> spraying latex a conversion gun sounds better and he is not worried about
a
> "fine" finish so a bit of oil or water spots will not be noticeable.
Cheers,
> JG
>

Strongest recommendation - get yourself the disposable orange (sometimes
blue) bulb type filter that screws into the air inlet of your gun. Drain
your tank before spraying and use these filters every time you spray. They
*do* work. As I've said here before, I paint a lot of cars and I can assure
you these devices do work and they cost under $10 for two of them. Leave
them on your gun and you will get months and months of reuse out of them.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It doesn't - but Brian's choice of words indicated an awareness of
> past discussions (which implies that he'd either lurked or arleady
> STFW) and reasonable cluefulness.

... and I don't want to become a point of contention on this matter, so I'll
not-so-gracefully bow out (you've never seen me bow...)


> I've bought three of these darned
> conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm
> satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest part
> of my problem).

Can I offer some assistance?

>
> During a recent project (a sign - there're photos at
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/PT_Sign.html) I finally cleaned all the
> spray equipment, packed it away, and did the painting with roller and
> brushes. Before I waste any more time with the darned stuff /I/ will
> need to learn more than I've pulled off the wreck so far.

I looked at the link again, but the pics are from too great a distance and I
can't see any detail in the painting to see what's wrong. How about a blurb
about the problems you had.

>
> An A-Z spray painting (and perhaps HVLP spray painting) for dummies
> web page would probably be a big help for a lot of people. Know of any
> good online resources?
>

Well, I don't know if you'd call it an A-Z, but I've posted some pretty
detailed ramblings about proper spray technique. HVLP and conventional
painting don't really offer a difference in style if you view you objective
from the stand point of layering on the material. Spray speed changes some,
but the things that you watch for on the surface of the material being
painted are really the same. The objective is easy to post, but like
everything else, obtaining the objective is a matter of practice. Not to
sound like I'm dismissing anything, but you have to develop a bit of muscle
memory and it only comes from working on some scrap until you get the speed
and distance down right and develop the knack of watching your pattern go
down on the surface. Some typical problems can be explained and corrections
offered - things like orange peel for example, and then after that it's a
practice thing. Quickly enough though you get one of those ah-hah! moments.

Post some more info on your problems getting a good finish and let's see
what we can do.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

David,

I mix the paint and water in a plastic quart container. I pour in
approximatley 1" of water and then fill it the rest of the way with paint.
With some thicker latexs I have to add a little more.

When you focurs on the spray patern and size of the atomized paint drops
they look big, but flow out nicley. It took a little getting use to at
first.

I have sprayed about 30 doors with my $70.00 Wagner Control Spray HVLP. You
need almost an 1 1/2" of water for it to spray well.

Craig

www.vintagetrailersforsale.com



"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> cm wrote:
>> I use my single stage hvlp to spray latex paint on doors all the time. I
>> even use the new Wagner Control Spray hvlp to spray latex. I get great
>> results with 2-3 coats.
>>
>> AZCRAIG
>>
>>
>> www.vintagetrailersforsale.com
>>
>>
>> "Mike in Idaho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>David wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
>>>> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
>>>>the proper tip.
>>>
>>>Dave,
>>>
>>>I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
>>>with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
>>>since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
>>>tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
>>>experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
>>>tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
>>>trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
>>>vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
>>>thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
>>>putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
>>>with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
>>>and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.
>>>
>>>Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
>>>coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
>>>don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).
>>>
>>>What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
>>>that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
>>>can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
>>>I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Mike
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> What percentage water are you adding?
>
> dave

brianlanning wrote:

> I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
> selecting a conversion gun.
>
> I'd like to avoid tubines as I'd prefer to have less noise, and I'd
> like to have a large compressor anyway.
>
> I'm hoping to spray poly (or poly mixed with tung oil or stain) and
> rather thick paints for kids furniture. I can see spraying other
> finishes in the future though. And some day trying to spray cars. I'd
> like easy clean up. Price matters, but I'm willing to spend what it
> takes to get a good one. I probably don't need a pro gun. A price
> around a couple hundred would be about right, unless I can get
> something equally good for less. I was thinking to get probably the
> 80 gallon porter cable on amazon for $850 (minus $150). What kind of
> CFMs should I really be looking for? thanks
>
> brian
>
Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
the proper tip. Without breaking the bank, it's difficult for "thick
paint" and HVLP to coexist, Brian. My rig ran over $1,200 and I was
hesitant to spend that much, but the more I researched it, the more I
realized there's no way around it. I looked at other brands, but they
weren't as comfortable to hold, or they were "bleeders". After months
of indecision, I realized that since I needed a versatile HVLP set up, I
was going to need to pony up the big bucks. Eventually I bought extra
tips and caps so that I can spray anything from water based dyes, all
the way up to latex paint. If you can skip the requirement of spraying
thick paint, your options are much broader at lesser cost.

what's the cfm of the PC you are looking at? Personally I don't like
the idea of using a compressor with fine finishes because I don't relish
getting contaminates in the finish. I've found affordable moisture and
oil filters to be only partially effective. Maybe others have had
better luck, but I prefer a turbine HVLP.

Dave

brianlanning wrote:

> I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
> selecting a conversion gun.
>
> I'd like to avoid tubines as I'd prefer to have less noise, and I'd
> like to have a large compressor anyway.
>
> I'm hoping to spray poly (or poly mixed with tung oil or stain) and
> rather thick paints for kids furniture. I can see spraying other
> finishes in the future though. And some day trying to spray cars. I'd
> like easy clean up. Price matters, but I'm willing to spend what it
> takes to get a good one. I probably don't need a pro gun. A price
> around a couple hundred would be about right, unless I can get
> something equally good for less. I was thinking to get probably the
> 80 gallon porter cable on amazon for $850 (minus $150). What kind of
> CFMs should I really be looking for? thanks
>
> brian
>
Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
the proper tip. Without breaking the bank, it's difficult for "thick
paint" and HVLP to coexist, Brian. My rig ran over $1,200 and I was
hesitant to spend that much, but the more I researched it, the more I
realized there's no way around it. I looked at other brands, but they
weren't as comfortable to hold, or they were "bleeders". After months
of indecision, I realized that since I needed a versatile HVLP set up, I
was going to need to pony up the big bucks. Eventually I bought extra
tips and caps so that I can spray anything from water based dyes, all
the way up to latex paint. If you can skip the requirement of spraying
thick paint, your options are much broader at lesser cost.

what's the cfm of the PC you are looking at? Personally I don't like
the idea of using a compressor with fine finishes because I don't relish
getting contaminates in the finish. I've found affordable moisture and
oil filters to be only partially effective. Maybe others have had
better luck, but I prefer a turbine HVLP.

Dave

"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> It's sure a lot faster to just ask the question again and hope the
question
> gets answered w/o fanfare and responses like this. It would have been
much
> easier had you just ignored the question. Now the next time somebody
> googles HVLP they'll have to read through my post, yours and your
reponsders
> just to spend 5 or 10 more minutes getting zero information.
>

And after investing that five minutes, they'll discover the treasure chest
of the really valuable information that's out there also. But, to each his
own. Seems investing any time is considered an unrealistic expectation
these days.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of
> >> new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.
> >>
> >
> > Reading comprehension is a valuable asset - you should try it some time.
> > I
> > never suggested the post was OT. But then again, that wouldn't matter
> > now,
> > would it?
> >
> > --
>
> No, you decided that the question had been asked too many times.
>
>

And that (in paraphrase, though certainly not accurately) represented my
opinion. Seems some like yourself have a great deal of difficulty with some
opinions, if they are not in keeping with your own.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> > And that (in paraphrase, though certainly not accurately) represented my
> > opinion. Seems some like yourself have a great deal of difficulty with
some
> > opinions, if they are not in keeping with your own.
>
> None at all, actually. You were wrong, we were right, so we told you.
> Plus, you're boring, so I felt obligated to be a little mean.
>

Damn - if I'd have known it was me versus "we" I'd have surrendered in the
very beginning. I hate it when that happens.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

cm wrote:

> David,
>
> I mix the paint and water in a plastic quart container. I pour in
> approximatley 1" of water and then fill it the rest of the way with paint.
> With some thicker latexs I have to add a little more.
>
> When you focurs on the spray patern and size of the atomized paint drops
> they look big, but flow out nicley. It took a little getting use to at
> first.
>
> I have sprayed about 30 doors with my $70.00 Wagner Control Spray HVLP. You
> need almost an 1 1/2" of water for it to spray well.
>
> Craig
>
> www.vintagetrailersforsale.com
>
>
>
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>cm wrote:
>>
>>>I use my single stage hvlp to spray latex paint on doors all the time. I
>>>even use the new Wagner Control Spray hvlp to spray latex. I get great
>>>results with 2-3 coats.
>>>
>>>AZCRAIG
>>>
>>>
>>>www.vintagetrailersforsale.com
>>>
>>>
>>>"Mike in Idaho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>David wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
>>>>> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
>>>>>the proper tip.
>>>>
>>>>Dave,
>>>>
>>>>I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
>>>>with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
>>>>since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
>>>>tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
>>>>experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
>>>>tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
>>>>trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
>>>>vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
>>>>thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
>>>>putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
>>>>with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
>>>>and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.
>>>>
>>>>Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
>>>>coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
>>>>don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).
>>>>
>>>>What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
>>>>that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
>>>>can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
>>>>I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>What percentage water are you adding?
>>
>>dave
>
>
>
that doesn't sound like a huge volume of water. I'm suprised you get
decent results with a 1 stage unit!

Dave

Mike in Idaho wrote:

> David wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
>> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
>>the proper tip.
>
>
> Dave,
>
> I have the Graco 4900 procomp (built-in compressor for remote 2qt pot)
> with both a remote gun and a gun with a 1qt pot attached. I bought it
> since I had read that 4 stage turbines can paint latex but I've got to
> tell you I haven't been too successful. I have all the tips and
> experimented with several of them but can't get decent output past the
> tightest round spray pattern -- which isn't helpful at all when I'm
> trying to paint a door for example. Mind you it was xylene based paint
> vs water, but the viscosity was really similar to latex. I tried
> thinning but by the time I thinned it enough to spray I was hardly
> putting any paint down. Ugh. I just let it go to lack of experience
> with HVLP and finished the project (bedroom trim) as quick as possible
> and then cleaned up and put it back in the box.
>
> Problem is it's still sitting there and I'm considering finishing my
> coffee table by hand because I'm not sure it's worth the trouble (I
> don't do enough work to probably warrant this type of equipment).
>
> What type of tip combination are you using? What type of fan cap (is
> that the right term?) -- mine only has one, recently I read that you
> can get high output caps, is that my problem? Or should I just figure
> I'm not using it enough to become proficient and sell it?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
For latex I'm using the .061.

I've got the .028 for stains, .036 and .043 for most everything else,
and the .061 just for latex. The dealer said to thin latex by 20%. I
don't, because I don't need to. A bit of Floetrol and maybe 10-15%
water, at the most. I can spray any pattern needed. I've got the #5,
7, and 9 caps. I'll use the 7 or 9 for latex.

Proficiency isn't the problem. It's tip and cap selection, thinning
properly, and adequate flow through the gun. Having said that, I
haven't sprayed the exact type of material you are having issues with.
Maybe get a bigger cap and tip. There's NO way you'll be able to spray
latex well with a tip smaller than the mid 50 thous.

Dave

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I'd like some help
>> selecting a conversion gun.
>>
>
> I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true, that they
> don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated it, they go into
> the
> same list of requirements that everyone else before them has stated.
> Sure,
> those are great considerations when guying a gun, but why not do a simple
> search that takes only seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of
> information, instead of posting what you know is something that has been
> addressed to death?
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
Mike-

I appreciate your knowledge and input here on the group and offer this as
constructive critism. I've spent hours and hours googling and still never
found exactly what I needed answered, spending too much time sifting through
the static. I usually preface this before asking again and specify links or
info I have found. This being said.....

It's sure a lot faster to just ask the question again and hope the question
gets answered w/o fanfare and responses like this. It would have been much
easier had you just ignored the question. Now the next time somebody
googles HVLP they'll have to read through my post, yours and your reponsders
just to spend 5 or 10 more minutes getting zero information.

It could have been....

What table saw should I buy?.....

:-)

Gary

On 11 Feb 2006 10:06:26 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
[email protected] quickly quoth:

>
>When I spray burglar bars, that little gun is a champ. Remember that
>your average bars are made out of some kind of 1" frame with 1/2" bars
>and some kind of curly design in the middle. 1" fan, volume open all
>the way, it tears them up. Refilling is a little annoying, but
>compared to the days of when we used to hand brush those babies for
>hours, it is a blessing to have to refill. (The house I am finishing
>out right now has 20 sets on them, mostly large 6 to 8 ft wide and 5 ft
>tall to compliment the ranch style house).

Your Classic Burglar-Proof California Ranch Style home, eh? <sigh>


>OK.. I am gettin' around to my question.
>
>Is there a larger capacity gun that I could run with my portable
>compressor? I often send my guys one way, and I go another as it

Pop another tank on there and you'll have more than enough spare air
for most small to medium jobs (everything you mentioned) Robert.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41712
$23 for 5 gallon tank. These are really handy. I ran my little brad
nailer with one while working on the house before I got the larger
compressor. It was lighter than the 3/4hp Rand compressor, not to
mention A HELL OF A LOT QUIETER. ;)

or

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40057
$33 for 10 gals.

or

http://store.yahoo.com/brandsplace/0246-omew1010a.html
$55 for 10 gals.

-
The advantage of exercising every day is that you die healthier.
------------
http://diversify.com Dynamic Websites, PHP Apps, MySQL databases

Mike Marlow wrote:

snip

can we all get along now?

Otherwise, how about taking this conversation over to
alt.i'm.gonna.punch.your.lights.out and continue to demean each other
for the next couple of days.

sheesh!

Dave

Mike Marlow wrote:

> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Thick paints with an HVLP? You need a really good one. I have a pricey
>> unit that's a 4 stage and it'll spray latex very well, when I install
>>the proper tip. Without breaking the bank, it's difficult for "thick
>>paint" and HVLP to coexist, Brian. My rig ran over $1,200 and I was
>>hesitant to spend that much, but the more I researched it, the more I
>>realized there's no way around it. I looked at other brands, but they
>>weren't as comfortable to hold, or they were "bleeders". After months
>>of indecision, I realized that since I needed a versatile HVLP set up, I
>>was going to need to pony up the big bucks. Eventually I bought extra
>>tips and caps so that I can spray anything from water based dyes, all
>>the way up to latex paint. If you can skip the requirement of spraying
>>thick paint, your options are much broader at lesser cost.
>
>
> Holy Cow David - you went the expensive route. My guns are all mid-line pro
> quality at a minimum and I've never spent over $200 on a gun. I spray a
> lot. I do a lot of automotive painting as well as finishes on wood.
> Though... I don't spray latex. That must be one heck of a setup you've got
> there. I can't think of any autobody guys that shoot with a gun that
> expensive.
>
>
>>what's the cfm of the PC you are looking at? Personally I don't like
>>the idea of using a compressor with fine finishes because I don't relish
>>getting contaminates in the finish. I've found affordable moisture and
>>oil filters to be only partially effective. Maybe others have had
>>better luck, but I prefer a turbine HVLP.
>>
>
>
> Contaminates in the finish are very easy to avoid with only a small amount
> of diligence. Heck - look at all of the cars on the road that have been
> painted with a basic oil lubed compressor and a gun. The simple orange bulb
> does a remarkable job at trapping moisture. Couple that with draining the
> tank just before shooting, and you've got a 100% effective solution. But,
> like you say in your closing statement - it is somewhat about preference and
> that goes a long way to making a guy happy.
>
I blame my wife for me buying the thing. She insisted I get it when we
were at a WW show. I thought it was too pricey, but what's a guy to do
when his wife insists? :) I'm glad it works as well as it does, for the
money I spent on it.

Dave

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Actually, I did do a search. And I wasn't too pleased with what I
>> found. The questions and answers sort of danced around what I asked,
>> but didn't hit it exactly.
>
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There has been a ton of stuff
> talked
> about and all sorts of points raised and answered - quite directly.
> But...
> not necessarily so, if your questions remain unanswered. I didn't see
> anything in your questions that was not addressed several times in the
> stuff
> that's been bantered about here, so I'll just come out and ask... which
> questions remain unanswered?
>
>
>> Also, I was hoping to get new information.
>> Like "hey there's this new gun that just came out". Or maybe there's a
>> new person with something to add that isn't in the archives. And since
>> it's cheap to post and reply, who cares? If you don't want to rehash
>> this again, don't respond.
>
> The last part of that statement is what can make a guy say "fXXk you".
> You
> know Brian - it's not too much to suggest that folks do an archive search.
> Whether you did one or not is not apparent from your original post - in
> fact
> it appeared to me that you didn't or you didn't bother to look too hard.
> Perhaps I was wrong - I'm willing to stand corrected on that single point,
> but I really don't accept well the "if you don't want to rehash this
> again,
> don't respond" stuff. What's the matter - did I crap in your personal
> playground by suggesting a search? That's what it seems.
>
> Understand something Brian - it's more than just some folks not wanting to
> see a particular thread start up or question asked because it somehow
> inconveniences them or disturbs them. Some of us have invested *a lot* of
> time into detailing answers and pointers and recommendations to these
> questions over time. We did it in the name of sharing, in order to help
> other folks out. Such is the nature of a group like this. In turn, we
> get
> our questions answered. But the point is the effort has been invested in
> answering this stuff and there does exist a good archive of these answers.
> Yes - you do get a bit tired of answering the same things over and over
> again. Especially when a little effort would reveal a wealth of
> information. Everything from compressor selection to gun selection (by
> type) to gun experiences (by manufacturer and model), to spray technique,
> to
> problem solving (why do I get orange peel), to repair of spray defects
> has
> been either thrown about here, or really chased in detail. Sure - there's
> always room for the question that asks "hey has anything really changed in
> this area?", implying perhaps a question as to new guns or something
> similar, but that's really an entirely different question. I responded to
> the question asked. It is a longstanding expectation of usenet/netnews
> that
> the poster will do a little search when he/she expects that the question
> is
> something that has "been beaten to death".
>
> I responded the way that I did because your post did not ask the questions
> you're now suggesting was their intent. You really asked the same stuff
> that has been addressed a lot here. A search *would* have directly
> answered
> some/most of your questions - not danced around them. That stuff has
> indeed
> been discussed directly and in some depth here. I guess in the end, I
> stand
> by my original thoughts thought, and (seemingly in conflict with...)
> should
> you have any questions or confusion remaining after reviewing what exists
> in
> the archives, and I can offer any insights or help in specific areas, I
> remain willing to do so. Sometimes you just want to see a guy put in the
> effort and not take the short cut and ignore all of the effort that others
> have put in by just asking what he wants now.
>

It sounds like you might want to take a break from your self appointed job
of being group moderator. The stress is really starting to show.