On 10/29/2017 3:50 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/29/2017 2:37 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 10/29/2017 2:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>>>> win-win.
>>>>
>>>> I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>>>> break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>>>> "lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>>>> Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>>>>
>>>> Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>>>> not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>>>> store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>>>> break. That's "quality". ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
>>> starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
>>> He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
>>> apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
>>> years later.
>>>> nb
>>>
>>
>> I have Craftsman that I bought 53 years ago. I don't use them like
>> you did, but they were great for a backyard mechanic and homeowner.
>> I'd not buy the new ones though, they were cheapened years ago.
>>
>> Of course years ago you could take apart virtually everything on the
>> car with just a 1/2" and 9/16" open end and box wrench. Then then
>> furriners started that metric stuff.
>
> It was Jimmy Carter that started the metric stuff in the USA. BUT FWIW
> foreign products were metric long before the US went that route, so
> metric was here long ago.
Back in the '60s the corner garage would not work on your Fiat because
they did not have the tools. I cannot imaginr getting your Borgward
repaired easily.
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/b5ac95d9-e88f-304c-8f5f-fd1e06a21e6d/ss_lowe's-will-begin-selling.html
Interesting, Craftsman products available at Ace Hardware, Kmart,
Lowes and Sears. Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:37:40 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/29/2017 2:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>>> win-win.
>>>
>>> I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>>> break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>>> "lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>>> Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>>>
>>> Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>>> not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>>> store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>>> break. That's "quality". ;)
>>>
>>
>> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
>> starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
>> He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
>> apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
>> years later.
>>> nb
>>
>
>I have Craftsman that I bought 53 years ago. I don't use them like you
>did, but they were great for a backyard mechanic and homeowner. I'd not
>buy the new ones though, they were cheapened years ago.
>
>Of course years ago you could take apart virtually everything on the car
>with just a 1/2" and 9/16" open end and box wrench. Then then furriners
>started that metric stuff.
The majority of my metric stuff isn't Ctraftsman - I bought a lot of
Herbrand during those years because Ralph Clarke was such a nice guy
to deal with, the prices were good, and he was around every week or
two - and if something broke and needed replacement, he was just a
phone call away. Bought a few Snappies too - and some proto /
challenger / SK etc.
On 10/29/2017 5:18 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-10-29, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> The warranty was probably worst than Craftsman, you had to wait up to a
>> week or more to have a tool replaced.
>
> True. OTOH, early Snap-On never needed to replace tools! That was my point.
Understood buy an alternatively problematic situation was when you left
a wrench under the hood or misplaced one, you had that long wait again
if you wanted to stay with Snap-On. IMHO the Snap-On truck was simply
an unscheduled break for the technicians.
On 10/29/2017 5:56 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 17:03:41 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/29/2017 4:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:27:41 +0000, Spalted Walt
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
>>>>> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
>>>>> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
>>>>> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
>>>>> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> As a disgruntled former owner of a Lowe's self-propelled 21" rear
>>>> drive Husqvarna, I'd be happy to see Lowes carry Craftsman mowers
>>>> instead.
>>>>
>>>> I replaced the Husqvarna with a self-propelled Honda from HD 4 yrs
>>>> ago and have been quite pleased with its performance. (Except that
>>>> it's hard to pull backward)
>>>
>>> I have a Honda that I no longer use. It was a great mower when I had
>>> a smaller lot. I now have a Craftsman tractor that's the pits. It
>>> does a lousy job cutting but even a walk behind would kill me with
>>> this lot (did it for a few months but that's all I did during that
>>> time).
>>>
>>
>> Still using my Honda HR194. I purchased it in the Spring of 1987.
> I just pulled a 1984 vintage Toro mulcher out of mothballs to mulch
> and bag my leaves this fall. Not sure how long the OP had it in
> "storage" but it started first pull when I gassed it up .
>
> Tecumseh engine, 164CC
>
Sounds like he set it up right for the storage.
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 22:37:48 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 21:48:14 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Yes, but you'll still see the Craftsman products in Sears retail outlets.
>
>As long as they exist but in 10 years they probably won't.
In Canada theybwon't by Feb 2018 (or sooner)
On 29 Oct 2017 14:41:32 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2017-10-29, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
>> retailer.
>
>It is? Apparently, didn't help Sears.
Might be the only thing that kept them going - - -
>
>In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
>Craftsman tools. Unfortunately, they tossed the infinitely superior
>William and Bonney line of hand tools to carry Craftsman.
>
>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>> win-win.
>
>I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>"lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>
>Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>break. That's "quality". ;)
>
When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
years later.
>nb
Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
All Craftsman is is a sticker with a registered trademark. The owners will
probably slap it on everything in the coming years.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>
> Bill
As a disgruntled former owner of a Lowe's self-propelled 21" rear
drive Husqvarna, I'd be happy to see Lowes carry Craftsman mowers
instead.
I replaced the Husqvarna with a self-propelled Honda from HD 4 yrs
ago and have been quite pleased with its performance. (Except that
it's hard to pull backward)
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 17:03:41 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2017 4:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:27:41 +0000, Spalted Walt
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
>>>> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
>>>> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
>>>> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
>>>> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>
>>> As a disgruntled former owner of a Lowe's self-propelled 21" rear
>>> drive Husqvarna, I'd be happy to see Lowes carry Craftsman mowers
>>> instead.
>>>
>>> I replaced the Husqvarna with a self-propelled Honda from HD 4 yrs
>>> ago and have been quite pleased with its performance. (Except that
>>> it's hard to pull backward)
>>
>> I have a Honda that I no longer use. It was a great mower when I had
>> a smaller lot. I now have a Craftsman tractor that's the pits. It
>> does a lousy job cutting but even a walk behind would kill me with
>> this lot (did it for a few months but that's all I did during that
>> time).
>>
>
>Still using my Honda HR194. I purchased it in the Spring of 1987.
I just pulled a 1984 vintage Toro mulcher out of mothballs to mulch
and bag my leaves this fall. Not sure how long the OP had it in
"storage" but it started first pull when I gassed it up .
Tecumseh engine, 164CC
On 10/29/2017 2:37 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 10/29/2017 2:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>>> win-win.
>>>
>>> I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>>> break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>>> "lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>>> Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>>>
>>> Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>>> not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>>> store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>>> break. That's "quality". ;)
>>>
>>
>> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
>> starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
>> He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
>> apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
>> years later.
>>> nb
>>
>
> I have Craftsman that I bought 53 years ago. I don't use them like you
> did, but they were great for a backyard mechanic and homeowner. I'd not
> buy the new ones though, they were cheapened years ago.
>
> Of course years ago you could take apart virtually everything on the car
> with just a 1/2" and 9/16" open end and box wrench. Then then furriners
> started that metric stuff.
It was Jimmy Carter that started the metric stuff in the USA. BUT FWIW
foreign products were metric long before the US went that route, so
metric was here long ago.
On 10/29/2017 8:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>
> If lawnmowers are included. It may only be tools. Hand tools and power
> tools are ade by different suppliers too. They also broke ties with
> Whirlpool after many years of making Kenmore appliances.
>
> The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
I don't think Sears broke ties with Whirlpool, although they will not be
selling the appliances with the Whirlpool name I understand that
Whirlpool will continue to make some Kenmore appliances.
On 10/29/2017 4:58 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-10-29, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
>> starter set....
>
> You started when?
>
>> and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
>
> I'm assuming "snap-off" is a joke. Granted, Snap-0n prices are high.
> I stopped buying their stuff when I realized they were buying Chinese
> oil cans and mine broke after 2 pumps.
>
> OTOH, I'll never ferget my first experience with Snap-On. I borrowed
> a 7mm-19mm combo wrench set from a bud. The motorcycle head I needed
> to remove was a four-square-bolt, down between the head fins, assy. I put a
> 10mm open-end wrench on the "square" head bolts. I put a "crescent"
> wrench on the 10mm's shaft and did a "breaker" action on the head
> bolts. Got the head off after the "shank" twisted 45 degrees from the
> "head" ....w/o breaking!
>
> I reversed the process, thereby re-aligning the shank to the head. I
> told the guy I'd borrowed the set from, if you can identify the
> wrench I'd twisted, I'd replace it. He could not. ;)
>
> Who made that wrench? I suspect Bonney. OTOH, Mac and Snap-On were
> the only companies that hadda FULL catalog of tools.
>
> nb
>
I worked in the automotive service field from HS until I retired at 40.
I never understood the Snap-On appeal other than being able to buy tools
during work hours with out leaving the job.
The warranty was probably worst than Craftsman, you had to wait up to a
week or more to have a tool replaced.
On 10/29/2017 4:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:27:41 +0000, Spalted Walt
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
>>> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
>>> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
>>> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
>>> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> As a disgruntled former owner of a Lowe's self-propelled 21" rear
>> drive Husqvarna, I'd be happy to see Lowes carry Craftsman mowers
>> instead.
>>
>> I replaced the Husqvarna with a self-propelled Honda from HD 4 yrs
>> ago and have been quite pleased with its performance. (Except that
>> it's hard to pull backward)
>
> I have a Honda that I no longer use. It was a great mower when I had
> a smaller lot. I now have a Craftsman tractor that's the pits. It
> does a lousy job cutting but even a walk behind would kill me with
> this lot (did it for a few months but that's all I did during that
> time).
>
Still using my Honda HR194. I purchased it in the Spring of 1987.
On 10/29/2017 4:07 AM, Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/28/17 8:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>>>>> Hope not.
>>>> Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and space
>>>> for another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see it.
>>>
>>>
>>> You are most-likely correct. Let me know if you see them start
>>> having clearance sales! I'll start looking to see if there are any
>>> big Kobalt tools that I might like to have.
>>
>> My guess is they'll either keep both and have the Craftsman brand as
>> their "premium" or dump Kobalt altogether.
>>
>> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
>> retailer.
>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>> win-win.
>>
>> There are may more Lowes stores than Sears, so they should be able to
>> keep prices down to sell in bulk.
>>
>>
>
> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>
> Bill
>
If lawnmowers are included. It may only be tools. Hand tools and power
tools are ade by different suppliers too. They also broke ties with
Whirlpool after many years of making Kenmore appliances.
The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
On Sat, 28 Oct 2017 21:48:14 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Yes, but you'll still see the Craftsman products in Sears retail outlets.
As long as they exist but in 10 years they probably won't.
On 10/29/2017 2:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>> win-win.
>>
>> I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>> break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>> "lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>> Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>>
>> Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>> not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>> store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>> break. That's "quality". ;)
>>
>
> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
> starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
> He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
> apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
> years later.
>> nb
>
I have Craftsman that I bought 53 years ago. I don't use them like you
did, but they were great for a backyard mechanic and homeowner. I'd not
buy the new ones though, they were cheapened years ago.
Of course years ago you could take apart virtually everything on the car
with just a 1/2" and 9/16" open end and box wrench. Then then furriners
started that metric stuff.
Remember - Sears sold the product line and name and doesn't own
Craftsman anymore.
Martin
On 10/25/2017 6:26 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/b5ac95d9-e88f-304c-8f5f-fd1e06a21e6d/ss_lowe's-will-begin-selling.html
>
> Interesting, Craftsman products available at Ace Hardware, Kmart,
> Lowes and Sears. Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:50:11 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2017 2:37 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 10/29/2017 2:48 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>>>> win-win.
>>>>
>>>> I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>>>> break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>>>> "lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>>>> Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>>>>
>>>> Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>>>> not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>>>> store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>>>> break. That's "quality". ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
>>> starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
>>> He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
>>> apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
>>> years later.
>>>> nb
>>>
>>
>> I have Craftsman that I bought 53 years ago. I don't use them like you
>> did, but they were great for a backyard mechanic and homeowner. I'd not
>> buy the new ones though, they were cheapened years ago.
>>
>> Of course years ago you could take apart virtually everything on the car
>> with just a 1/2" and 9/16" open end and box wrench. Then then furriners
>> started that metric stuff.
>
>It was Jimmy Carter that started the metric stuff in the USA. BUT FWIW
>foreign products were metric long before the US went that route, so
>metric was here long ago.
I started working almost exclusively on metric in the early '70s,
then got back into imperial stuff again around 1975-76 for a few
years.
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 09:20:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 10/29/2017 4:07 AM, Bill wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 10/28/17 8:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>>>>>> Hope not.
>>>>> Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and space
>>>>> for another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are most-likely correct. Let me know if you see them start
>>>> having clearance sales! I'll start looking to see if there are any
>>>> big Kobalt tools that I might like to have.
>>>
>>> My guess is they'll either keep both and have the Craftsman brand as
>>> their "premium" or dump Kobalt altogether.
>>>
>>> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
>>> retailer.
>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>> win-win.
>>>
>>> There are may more Lowes stores than Sears, so they should be able to
>>> keep prices down to sell in bulk.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
>> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
>> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
>> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
>> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
>If lawnmowers are included. It may only be tools. Hand tools and power
>tools are ade by different suppliers too. They also broke ties with
>Whirlpool after many years of making Kenmore appliances.
Even just the tools take a huge footprint, more than the tool section
allotted in any Lowes I've seen to date.
>The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
Why should anything change now. Their quality has been dropping for
several decades.
On 2017-10-29, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
> retailer.
It is? Apparently, didn't help Sears.
In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
Craftsman tools. Unfortunately, they tossed the infinitely superior
William and Bonney line of hand tools to carry Craftsman.
> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
> win-win.
I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
"lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
break. That's "quality". ;)
nb
On 2017-10-29, Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
> notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
>> Craftsman tools.
> Actually, OSH "was bought out by" Lowes in 2013:
Actually, while the above statement may be true, it had absolutely
nothing to do with my stated claim. ;)
"In 1996, the company was acquired by Sears."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchard_Supply_Hardware
nb
On 2017-10-29, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> As soon as they put the first Lowes next to a WalMart.....
.....they created the "100 yd boulevard", six divided lanes with a
giant intersection every 100 yds and box stores as far as the eye can see.
Add restaurants out near the street and you have the same "boulevard"
all over America!
Hard to tell which town yer in, anymore, cuz they all look the same.
I've seen the exact same "boulevard" less than 3/4 of a mile, apart,
despite being precisely parallel to each other and with "off-ramps"
off the same stretch of "freeway". Scary!
nb
On 2017-10-29, Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
> It has everything to do with the subject you were replying to "Lowes
> will begin selling Craftsman products", technically Lowes has been
> selling Craftsman products since 2013.
Which still has nothing to do with the fact OSH was acquired by Sears,
seventeen years earlier.
You wanna be right? Be my guest. I couldn't care less. ;)
nb
On 2017-10-29, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
> starter set....
You started when?
> and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
I'm assuming "snap-off" is a joke. Granted, Snap-0n prices are high.
I stopped buying their stuff when I realized they were buying Chinese
oil cans and mine broke after 2 pumps.
OTOH, I'll never ferget my first experience with Snap-On. I borrowed
a 7mm-19mm combo wrench set from a bud. The motorcycle head I needed
to remove was a four-square-bolt, down between the head fins, assy. I put a
10mm open-end wrench on the "square" head bolts. I put a "crescent"
wrench on the 10mm's shaft and did a "breaker" action on the head
bolts. Got the head off after the "shank" twisted 45 degrees from the
"head" ....w/o breaking!
I reversed the process, thereby re-aligning the shank to the head. I
told the guy I'd borrowed the set from, if you can identify the
wrench I'd twisted, I'd replace it. He could not. ;)
Who made that wrench? I suspect Bonney. OTOH, Mac and Snap-On were
the only companies that hadda FULL catalog of tools.
nb
On 2017-10-29, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> The warranty was probably worst than Craftsman, you had to wait up to a
> week or more to have a tool replaced.
True. OTOH, early Snap-On never needed to replace tools! That was my point.
Granted, their line became worse and worse, as time went by, but whose
didn't!? I wouldn't pay 5¢ fer anything from Snap-On, now. ;)
nb
On 2017-10-29, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> Back in the '60s the corner garage would not work on your Fiat because
> they did not have the tools.
Define "corner garage". In the 60s, my brother worked in a local filling
station (with a 2-bay working garage) and they specialized in European
cars. Metric combo wrenches or British Whitworth spanners were the
weapons they wielded. ;)
> I cannot imaginr getting your Borgward repaired easily.
Imagine passing the first Borgward I'd seen in 30 yrs, then seeing
that same car at a CA Borgward Owner's Assoc., meet some 50 miles
away! True story.
nb
On 2017-10-29, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> except possibly SK.
....or Proto or Bonney-Utica or Williams, etc.
Lotta good tools in the 60's. My 60's Milwaukee 1/2" drill is all
metal. I hadda pair o' Wizard-brand channel lock pliers. Cheapo
casting, sold by Grand Auto fer $3.95USD, way better than anything by
ChannelLock, at four times the price. I can still clamp down on a
roach (I live in CO) with my key-chain-sized J.H.Williams adj wrench which I've
carried --and used heavily!-- fer 40 yrs. I used my reg S-K sockets on a 3/8"
butterfly torque wrench. They never even lost their chrome!
Craftsman? The very first tool line I ever dumped ....in the 60's!
Let's face it, China is now making most of our tools. BUT, they are
wise enough to include the universal stamp-of-acceptance, the
"lifetime warranty". Craftsman did that for us. ;)
nb
notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2017-10-29, Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
> >> Craftsman tools.
>
> > Actually, OSH "was bought out by" Lowes in 2013:
>
> Actually, while the above statement may be true, it had absolutely
> nothing to do with my stated claim.
It has everything to do with the subject you were replying to "Lowes
will begin selling Craftsman products", technically Lowes has been
selling Craftsman products since 2013.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:51:09 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Spalted Walt wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/b5ac95d9-e88f-304c-8f5f-fd1e06a21e6d/ss_lowe's-will-begin-selling.html
>> Interesting, Craftsman products available at Ace Hardware, Kmart,
>> Lowes and Sears.
>
>They may be available at Sears and Kmart for a "limited time only". ;)
Good point.
>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>Hope not.
Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and space for
another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see it.
On 29 Oct 2017 22:18:18 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2017-10-29, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> The warranty was probably worst than Craftsman, you had to wait up to a
>> week or more to have a tool replaced.
>
>True. OTOH, early Snap-On never needed to replace tools! That was my point.
Not my experience, nor my classmates. That's why we started calling
them "snap-off" tools.
>
>Granted, their line became worse and worse, as time went by, but whose
>didn't!? I wouldn't pay 5¢ fer anything from Snap-On, now. ;)
This was way back in the late '60s and early 70s and they were not as
good as they would have had you believe.
They sure were PRETTY though!!!! Better chrome than the competition,
except possibly SK.
>
>nb
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:27:41 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
>> well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
>> me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
>> Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
>> next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>>
>> Bill
>
>As a disgruntled former owner of a Lowe's self-propelled 21" rear
>drive Husqvarna, I'd be happy to see Lowes carry Craftsman mowers
>instead.
>
>I replaced the Husqvarna with a self-propelled Honda from HD 4 yrs
>ago and have been quite pleased with its performance. (Except that
>it's hard to pull backward)
I have a Honda that I no longer use. It was a great mower when I had
a smaller lot. I now have a Craftsman tractor that's the pits. It
does a lousy job cutting but even a walk behind would kill me with
this lot (did it for a few months but that's all I did during that
time).
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:48:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>On 29 Oct 2017 14:41:32 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 2017-10-29, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
>>> retailer.
>>
>>It is? Apparently, didn't help Sears.
>
> Might be the only thing that kept them going - - -
>>
>>In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
>>Craftsman tools. Unfortunately, they tossed the infinitely superior
>>William and Bonney line of hand tools to carry Craftsman.
>>
>>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>>> win-win.
>>
>>I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
>>break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
>>"lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
>>Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>>
>>Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
>>not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
>>store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
>>break. That's "quality". ;)
>>
>
>When I started my apprenticeship as a mechanic I bought my Craftsman
>starter set and a classmate bought "snap-off" at over twice the price.
>He had replaced over half of his before he finished his
>apprenticeship, while I had almost all of my original set over 20
>years later.
Most of the tools that I have replaced in my life were replaced
because they walked off or went overboard, not because they broke. And
the ones I did manage to break generally broke because I did something
boneheaded.
Spalted Walt wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/b5ac95d9-e88f-304c-8f5f-fd1e06a21e6d/ss_lowe's-will-begin-selling.html
> Interesting, Craftsman products available at Ace Hardware, Kmart,
> Lowes and Sears.
They may be available at Sears and Kmart for a "limited time only". ;)
> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
Hope not.
>
Martin Eastburn wrote:
> Remember - Sears sold the product line and name and doesn't own
> Craftsman anymore.
>
> Martin
Yes, but you'll still see the Craftsman products in Sears retail outlets.
>
> On 10/25/2017 6:26 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/b5ac95d9-e88f-304c-8f5f-fd1e06a21e6d/ss_lowe's-will-begin-selling.html
>>>
>>
>> Interesting, Craftsman products available at Ace Hardware, Kmart,
>> Lowes and Sears. Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>>
[email protected] wrote:
>>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>> Hope not.
> Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and space for
> another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see it.
You are most-likely correct. Let me know if you see them start having
clearance sales!
I'll start looking to see if there are any big Kobalt tools that I might
like to have.
On 10/28/17 8:51 PM, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>>> Hope not.
>> Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and space
>> for another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see it.
>
>
> You are most-likely correct. Let me know if you see them start
> having clearance sales! I'll start looking to see if there are any
> big Kobalt tools that I might like to have.
My guess is they'll either keep both and have the Craftsman brand as
their "premium" or dump Kobalt altogether.
Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
retailer.
As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a win-win.
There are may more Lowes stores than Sears, so they should be able to
keep prices down to sell in bulk.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
-MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/28/17 8:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>>>> Hope not.
>>> Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and space
>>> for another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see it.
>>
>>
>> You are most-likely correct. Let me know if you see them start
>> having clearance sales! I'll start looking to see if there are any
>> big Kobalt tools that I might like to have.
>
> My guess is they'll either keep both and have the Craftsman brand as
> their "premium" or dump Kobalt altogether.
>
> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
> retailer.
> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
> win-win.
>
> There are may more Lowes stores than Sears, so they should be able to
> keep prices down to sell in bulk.
>
>
It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand very
well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It may give
me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must be 5 or 6
Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen at Lowes. My
next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
Bill
On 10/29/17 3:07 AM, Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/28/17 8:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> Lowes will probably drop their Kobalt tool line.
>>>>> Hope not.
>>>> Why? Do you think they can rationalize the inventory and
>>>> space for another line of similar (quality) tools? I don't see
>>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> You are most-likely correct. Let me know if you see them start
>>> having clearance sales! I'll start looking to see if there are
>>> any big Kobalt tools that I might like to have.
>>
>> My guess is they'll either keep both and have the Craftsman brand
>> as their "premium" or dump Kobalt altogether.
>>
>> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for
>> any retailer. As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is
>> preserved, it's a win-win.
>>
>> There are may more Lowes stores than Sears, so they should be able
>> to keep prices down to sell in bulk.
>>
>>
>
> It takes a good bit of floor space to represent the Craftsman brand
> very well. It will be interesting to see how well Lowes does it. It
> may give me a reason to visit Lowes more often. At Sears, there must
> be 5 or 6 Craftsman lawnmowers on display. I doubt that will happen
> at Lowes. My next lawnmower will probably be a Honda anyway. ; )
>
> Bill
>
I'm speaking specifically of their hand tools and mechanic tools.
Those are what have a stellar reputation. I don't see any reason for
Lowes to sell Craftsman lawnmowers. When Sears started sticking a
Craftsman badge on any and every $h!tty power tool and lawn and garden
object, nobody who respected their hand tools fell for the rouse.
Those horses were out of the barn decades ago and I don't see Lowes
making the same mistake.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 10/29/17 9:41 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-10-29, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Getting to carry an esteemed brand like Craftsman is a gift for any
>> retailer.
>
> It is? Apparently, didn't help Sears.
>
Apples and oranges. Sears was a dying retail model with one foot in the
grave when Lowes was an emerging giant with a successful strategy.
As soon as they put the first Lowes next to a WalMart, Sears became
cassette tape of brick & mortar retail.
> In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
> Craftsman tools. Unfortunately, they tossed the infinitely superior
> William and Bonney line of hand tools to carry Craftsman.
>
>> As long as the quality and lifetime warranty is preserved, it's a
>> win-win.
>
> I used my FIL's Craftman electric weed-eater. It was "designed to
> break" (my quotes!), so it did. I replaced it under Craftsman's
> "lifetime warranty" and it promply broke --again!-- within 1 min.
> Izzat what you would qualify as "quality"? ;)
>
> Craftman has NEVER had "quality". Broke my 10mm Craftman combo wrench
> not too long after learning about Snap-On quality. The closest Sears
> store was 100 mi away. The Snap-On (Bonney?) jes never bothered to
> break. That's "quality". ;)
>
> nb
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 10/29/17 11:40 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2017-10-29, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> As soon as they put the first Lowes next to a WalMart.....
>
> .....they created the "100 yd boulevard", six divided lanes with a
> giant intersection every 100 yds and box stores as far as the eye can see.
> Add restaurants out near the street and you have the same "boulevard"
> all over America!
>
> Hard to tell which town yer in, anymore, cuz they all look the same.
> I've seen the exact same "boulevard" less than 3/4 of a mile, apart,
> despite being precisely parallel to each other and with "off-ramps"
> off the same stretch of "freeway". Scary!
>
> nb
>
I noticed that phenomenon when I was doing a lot of touring as a musician.
You can sort of tell what part of the country you're in by the scenery
along the highway. There's only 4 or 5, really-- city/suburbia,
farmland, desert, mountains, ocean-view.
But once you're off on an exit, every place looks exactly the same, as
you described.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2017-10-29 3:44 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/29/2017 8:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> If lawnmowers are included. It may only be tools. Hand tools and
>> power tools are ade by different suppliers too. They also broke ties
>> with Whirlpool after many years of making Kenmore appliances.
>>
>> The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
>
> I don't think Sears broke ties with Whirlpool, although they will not be
> selling the appliances with the Whirlpool name I understand that
> Whirlpool will continue to make some Kenmore appliances.
>
I wonder if that will happen in Canada too, now that Sears has/is almost
shutdown here.
notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> In CA, Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH) was bought out by Sears and sold
> Craftsman tools.
Actually, OSH "was bought out by" Lowes in 2013:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-24/lowe-s-inks-deal-to-sell-craftsman-gaining-edge-over-home-depot
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 10/29/2017 8:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> > If lawnmowers are included. It may only be tools. Hand tools and power
> > tools are ade by different suppliers too. They also broke ties with
> > Whirlpool after many years of making Kenmore appliances.
> >
> > The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
>
> I don't think Sears broke ties with Whirlpool, although they will not be
> selling the appliances with the Whirlpool name I understand that
> Whirlpool will continue to make some Kenmore appliances.
You are correct according to Appliance411:
http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml
http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/sears.shtml
" Sears does not manufacture any of their products,
instead they are all made by the other leading
manufacturers, often with added features. They are
then rebranded with the Kenmore (or other) brand
name.
Notably are: most laundry products and dishwashers
made by Whirlpool, lower end front load washer and
matching dryer by Frigidaire and many range models
by GE or Frigidaire."
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:44:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 10/29/2017 8:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> If lawnmowers are included. It may only be tools. Hand tools and power
>> tools are ade by different suppliers too. They also broke ties with
>> Whirlpool after many years of making Kenmore appliances.
>>
>> The Craftsman name may live on, but will the quality?
>
>I don't think Sears broke ties with Whirlpool, although they will not be
>selling the appliances with the Whirlpool name I understand that
>Whirlpool will continue to make some Kenmore appliances.
Not from what I heard - and in Canada it's a moot point anyways, as
Sears Canada will be closing their doors very early in the new year.