Joining the CNC club!

On Nov 28, 1:58=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote innews:55bf4d71-6978-43fd-8b93-f3=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 12:48 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> -MIKE- wrote:
> >> > Morris Dovey wrote:
> >> >> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right
> >> >>> out when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>
> >> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up
> >> >> in the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop
> >> >> cans (at probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting
> >> >> experiment...
>
> >> > What do you used those for?
>
> >> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for folks
> >> in under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is a
> >> DIY-able check valve that seals decently.
>
> >> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>
> >>http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>
> >> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat
> >> source)
>
> >> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
> >> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll have
> >> some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>
> >> --
> >> Morris Dovey
> >> DeSoto Solar
> >> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
> > What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might have an
> > idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for cheap and from
> > local materials.
>
> Is there anything that for the valve could use a piece of bicycle inner
> tube as sealing material? =A0Certainly in Asia bicycles are plentiful, an=
d
> so must used up inner tubes. =A0You should be able to get 2-3" diameter
> pieces out of that.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

There you... stealing my idea...LOL. The Dutch made all kinds of fun
things out of innertubes. I had a slingshot that could take out a bus.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:31:31 -0600, Morris Dovey <[email protected]>
wrote:


>> I haven't googled this one yet, but is there a table somewhere for
>> feedrate vs diameter and cutting depth?
>
>There's also RPM and number of flutes that need to be considered along
>with diameter.

Thanks, that narrows it down :P

>> I'm at a bit of a loss as far as how to price cnc work. There's
>> design time and that's straightforward enough, but what about running
>> time on the cnc?
>
>Most of the guys I know doing custom CNC routing bill somewhere between
>$50 and $75/hour for machine time.

Great, so the robot makes more than I do. Well, I suppose it's more
accurate and doesn't spend half the day putzing around when it ought
to be working.


-Kevin

On Nov 28, 1:02=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
> >>> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up in
> >>> the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop cans (at
> >>> probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting experiment...
>
> >> What do you used those for?
>
> > I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for folks in
> > under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is a DIY-able
> > check valve that seals decently.
>
> > If interested you can see what I have so far at
>
> > =A0 =A0http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>
> > (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat source)
>
> > If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
> > "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll have
> > some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>
> I've seen your pump, I try to check in now and then to see how things
> are going.
>
> I'm trying to build a shock for my out-feed table, so I can just let it
> go and it will glide down to its latch.
>

Think automotive scrapyard. Hatchback gas cylinders van be had for
next-to-nothing, Even new replacement ones at your PartBoys are
sometimes reasonable.
The dampening amount varies with the angle you mount it on.
Some of them exert serious spring tension.... be careful.

On Nov 27, 4:05=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
> > -MIKE- wrote:
> >> Morris Dovey wrote:
> >>> If you're adventurous and enjoy a challenge, design and build your
> >>> own machine (it's not as difficult as you might imagine, and it's a
> >>> lot less expensive than an off-the-shelf product).
>
> >> Oh geez, you had to go there.
>
> >> I answer "yes" to both of those, but I'm on too many adventures, right
> >> now. =A0 :-)
>
> > Yabbut just imagine - you could turn out precision router base plates
> > whenever you wanted. :-))
>
> Oh, can you fit an adjustable hole cutter in a cnc chuck? =A0 =A0:-)
>

You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right out
when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.

On Nov 28, 12:48=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
> > Morris Dovey wrote:
> >> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right out
> >>> when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>
> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up in
> >> the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop cans (at
> >> probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting experiment...
>
> > What do you used those for?
>
> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for folks in
> under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is a DIY-able
> check valve that seals decently.
>
> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>
> =A0 =A0http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>
> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat source)
>
> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll have
> some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might have an
idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for cheap and from
local materials.

On Nov 25, 11:47=A0am, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ordered the smaller CNC shark. =A0For the type of stuff I do the small
> one is going to work fine, and will actually fit in the shop. =A0I was
> going to put a planer in that spot but this is going to be way more
> fun :) =A0I don't even want to think about how much more I'm going to
> have to spend (time & money) to get full use out of it though...
>
> Now I have to go build a cabinet for it...
>
> -Kevin

Congrats, those things are a blast!

Can you say: "Slippery slope?"

Hey MORRIS!! We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*

On Nov 27, 10:00=A0am, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:57:48 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 25, 11:47=A0am, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Ordered the smaller CNC shark. =A0For the type of stuff I do the small
> >> one is going to work fine, and will actually fit in the shop. =A0I was
> >> going to put a planer in that spot but this is going to be way more
> >> fun :) =A0I don't even want to think about how much more I'm going to
> >> have to spend (time & money) to get full use out of it though...
>
> >> Now I have to go build a cabinet for it...
>
> >> -Kevin
>
> >Congrats, those things are a blast!
>
> >Can you say: "Slippery slope?"
>
> >Hey MORRIS!! =A0We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*
>
> Now that he's hooked, it won't be long before he's here:http://fwd4.me/63=
N, or even here:http://fwd4.me/63K
>
> --
> Q: How many climate scientists does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> A: None. There's a consensus that it's going to change, so they've
> decided to keep us in the dark.

In all seriousness... what else are going to buy for $60K that does as
much as that does? (Aside from the fact that a $ 30K machine will
almost do it all.) Football, Ballet...

On Nov 28, 1:47=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > Think automotive scrapyard. Hatchback gas cylinders van be had for
> > next-to-nothing, Even new replacement ones at your PartBoys are
> > sometimes reasonable.
> > The dampening amount varies with the angle you mount it on.
> > Some of them exert serious spring tension.... be careful.
>
> Next on the list. =A0:-)
>
> My old minivan (I need to sell!) has two I may use as a proof of
> concept. =A0 :-)
>
Playing with those gas cylinders is as much fun as that day my
neighbour, years ago, was playing with one of those exercise spring
things. You know the ones, you could hook springs between the handles
and streeeetch them for exercise. You could add them as you needed
them. He had two springs on, and his foot inside one of the handles
and he was trying to push the other handle towards the ceiling. Well,
he almost got the thing past his shoulder when it slipped out from
under his foot, breaking his jaw in several places and electrocuting
him as the whole mess destroyed some track lighting. Damn near blinded
him for life from the heavy glass fragment of those old style flood
lamps. 3 weeks in hospital. Never the same since. His co-workers
bought him a Slinky for Christmas that year....bastards.

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Nov 28, 12:48 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>> > Morris Dovey wrote:
>> >> Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right
>> >>> out when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>>
>> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up
>> >> in the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop
>> >> cans (at probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting
>> >> experiment...
>>
>> > What do you used those for?
>>
>> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for folks
>> in under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is a
>> DIY-able check valve that seals decently.
>>
>> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>>
>>    http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>>
>> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat
>> source)
>>
>> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
>> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll have
>> some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>>
>> --
>> Morris Dovey
>> DeSoto Solar
>> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
> What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might have an
> idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for cheap and from
> local materials.

Is there anything that for the valve could use a piece of bicycle inner
tube as sealing material? Certainly in Asia bicycles are plentiful, and
so must used up inner tubes. You should be able to get 2-3" diameter
pieces out of that.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Nov 28, 1:58 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
>> innews:55bf4d71-6978-43fd-8b93-f3
> [email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 28, 12:48 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> -MIKE- wrote:
>> >> > Morris Dovey wrote:
>> >> >> Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> >> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right
>> >> >>> out when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>>
>> >> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine
>> >> >> up in the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum
>> >> >> pop cans (at probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting
>> >> >> experiment...
>>
>> >> > What do you used those for?
>>
>> >> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for
>> >> folks in under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is
>> >> a DIY-able check valve that seals decently.
>>
>> >> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>>
>> >>http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>>
>> >> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat
>> >> source)
>>
>> >> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
>> >> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll
>> >> have some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Morris Dovey
>> >> DeSoto Solar
>> >> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>>
>> > What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might have
>> > an idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for cheap and
>> > from local materials.
>>
>> Is there anything that for the valve could use a piece of bicycle
>> inner tube as sealing material?  Certainly in Asia bicycles are
>> plentiful, an
> d
>> so must used up inner tubes.  You should be able to get 2-3" diameter
>> pieces out of that.
>>
>
> There you... stealing my idea...LOL. The Dutch made all kinds of fun
> things out of innertubes. I had a slingshot that could take out a bus.

That dates you, Robatoy!!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:df0d82c2-885c-44b3-877d-ec3c63ef881b@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:

> On Nov 28, 2:12 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
>> innews:057db960-021c-49e4-8bdf-1c
> [email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 28, 1:58 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
>> >> innews:55bf4d71-6978-43fd-8b93-f3
>> > [email protected]:
>>
>> >> > On Nov 28, 12:48 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> -MIKE- wrote:
>> >> >> > Morris Dovey wrote:
>> >> >> >> Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths
>> >> >> >>> right out when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>>
>> >> >> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking
>> >> >> >> mine up in the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from
>> >> >> >> aluminum pop cans (at probably ~100 RPM). Should be an
>> >> >> >> interesting experiment...
>>
>> >> >> > What do you used those for?
>>
>> >> >> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for
>> >> >> folks in under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems
>> >> >> is a DIY-able check valve that seals decently.
>>
>> >> >> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>>
>> >> >>http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>>
>> >> >> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat
>> >> >> source)
>>
>> >> >> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
>> >> >> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so
>> >> >> they'll have some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Morris Dovey
>> >> >> DeSoto Solar
>> >> >> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>>
>> >> > What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might
>> >> > have an idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for
>> >> > cheap and from local materials.
>>
>> >> Is there anything that for the valve could use a piece of bicycle
>> >> inner tube as sealing material? Certainly in Asia bicycles are
>> >> plentiful, an
>> > d
>> >> so must used up inner tubes. You should be able to get 2-3"
>> >> diameter pieces out of that.
>>
>> > There you... stealing my idea...LOL. The Dutch made all kinds of
>> > fun things out of innertubes. I had a slingshot that could take out
>> > a bus.
>>
>> That dates you, Robatoy!!!
>>
>> --
>> Best regards
>> Han
>> email address is invalid
>
> How about paper blow-darts? Launched trough plastic electrical
> conduit. (That thought just shocked me.. we had our house re-wired in
> the mid-1950's...and we had plastic conduit....)

We used Bic pens with the inkstraws removed. In high school class. But
not in physics ...


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:57:48 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Nov 25, 11:47 am, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ordered the smaller CNC shark.  For the type of stuff I do the small
>> one is going to work fine, and will actually fit in the shop.  I was
>> going to put a planer in that spot but this is going to be way more
>> fun :)  I don't even want to think about how much more I'm going to
>> have to spend (time & money) to get full use out of it though...
>>
>> Now I have to go build a cabinet for it...
>>
>> -Kevin
>
>Congrats, those things are a blast!
>
>Can you say: "Slippery slope?"
>
>Hey MORRIS!! We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*

May as well pick your brains while I'm at it. I need to order some
end mills and I'm wondering what size range I ought to have. I'm
limited to the 1/4" collet of the Colt so nothing bigger than that.
1/4" and 1/8" ought to cover most everything for a straight cutter but
how small do I need to have for ball end for detail 3D work?

I found one source that said using a split 1/8 to 1/4 adapter
increases runout and they offer a pressed on bushing that they say is
better. Any merit to that?

I haven't googled this one yet, but is there a table somewhere for
feedrate vs diameter and cutting depth?

I'm at a bit of a loss as far as how to price cnc work. There's
design time and that's straightforward enough, but what about running
time on the cnc?

-Kevin

On Nov 28, 4:53=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote innews:df0d82c2-885c-44b3-877d-ec=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 2:12 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
> >> innews:057db960-021c-49e4-8bdf-1c
> > [email protected]:
>
> >> > On Nov 28, 1:58 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
> >> >> innews:55bf4d71-6978-43fd-8b93-f3
> >> > [email protected]:
>
> >> >> > On Nov 28, 12:48 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> -MIKE- wrote:
> >> >> >> > Morris Dovey wrote:
> >> >> >> >> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths
> >> >> >> >>> right out when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>
> >> >> >> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking
> >> >> >> >> mine up in the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from
> >> >> >> >> aluminum pop cans (at probably ~100 RPM). Should be an
> >> >> >> >> interesting experiment...
>
> >> >> >> > What do you used those for?
>
> >> >> >> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for
> >> >> >> folks in under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems
> >> >> >> is a DIY-able check valve that seals decently.
>
> >> >> >> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>
> >> >> >>http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>
> >> >> >> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat
> >> >> >> source)
>
> >> >> >> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
> >> >> >> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so
> >> >> >> they'll have some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Morris Dovey
> >> >> >> DeSoto Solar
> >> >> >> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
> >> >> > What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might
> >> >> > have an idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for
> >> >> > cheap and from local materials.
>
> >> >> Is there anything that for the valve could use a piece of bicycle
> >> >> inner tube as sealing material? Certainly in Asia bicycles are
> >> >> plentiful, an
> >> > d
> >> >> so must used up inner tubes. You should be able to get 2-3"
> >> >> diameter pieces out of that.
>
> >> > There you... stealing my idea...LOL. The Dutch made all kinds of
> >> > fun things out of innertubes. I had a slingshot that could take out
> >> > a bus.
>
> >> That dates you, Robatoy!!!
>
> >> --
> >> Best regards
> >> Han
> >> email address is invalid
>
> > How about paper blow-darts? Launched trough plastic electrical
> > conduit. (That thought just shocked me.. we had our house re-wired in
> > the mid-1950's...and we had plastic conduit....)
>
> We used Bic pens with the inkstraws removed. =A0In high school class. =A0=
But
> not in physics ...
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

In school we used a bent piece of solder and a strong rubber band.
Those could draw blood.
The 1/2" paper arrows had fantastic range and could take a small bird
down.

I'll make some up when I have some time and post a video on its
contruction and performance.

On Nov 28, 2:12=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote innews:057db960-021c-49e4-8bdf-1c=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 1:58 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
> >> innews:55bf4d71-6978-43fd-8b93-f3
> > [email protected]:
>
> >> > On Nov 28, 12:48 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> -MIKE- wrote:
> >> >> > Morris Dovey wrote:
> >> >> >> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> >> >>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right
> >> >> >>> out when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>
> >> >> >> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine
> >> >> >> up in the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum
> >> >> >> pop cans (at probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting
> >> >> >> experiment...
>
> >> >> > What do you used those for?
>
> >> >> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for
> >> >> folks in under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is
> >> >> a DIY-able check valve that seals decently.
>
> >> >> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>
> >> >>http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>
> >> >> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat
> >> >> source)
>
> >> >> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
> >> >> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll
> >> >> have some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Morris Dovey
> >> >> DeSoto Solar
> >> >> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
> >> > What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might have
> >> > an idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for cheap and
> >> > from local materials.
>
> >> Is there anything that for the valve could use a piece of bicycle
> >> inner tube as sealing material? Certainly in Asia bicycles are
> >> plentiful, an
> > d
> >> so must used up inner tubes. You should be able to get 2-3" diameter
> >> pieces out of that.
>
> > There you... stealing my idea...LOL. The Dutch made all kinds of fun
> > things out of innertubes. I had a slingshot that could take out a bus.
>
> That dates you, Robatoy!!!
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

How about paper blow-darts? Launched trough plastic electrical
conduit. (That thought just shocked me.. we had our house re-wired in
the mid-1950's...and we had plastic conduit....)

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:43:47 -0500, the infamous Kevin
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:00:08 -0800, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:57:48 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
>><[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>>Hey MORRIS!! We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*
>>
>>Now that he's hooked, it won't be long before he's here:
>>http://fwd4.me/63N , or even here: http://fwd4.me/63K
>
>For 60k it better come with Kate Hudson ;)

I've love^H^H^Husted after that woman since "Almost Famous"!

--
Q: How many climate scientists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. There's a consensus that it's going to change, so they've
decided to keep us in the dark.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:00:08 -0800, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:57:48 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
><[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>>Hey MORRIS!! We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*
>
>Now that he's hooked, it won't be long before he's here:
>http://fwd4.me/63N , or even here: http://fwd4.me/63K

For 60k it better come with Kate Hudson ;)


-Kevin

Kevin wrote:

> Ordered the smaller CNC shark. For the type of stuff I do the small
> one is going to work fine, and will actually fit in the shop. I was
> going to put a planer in that spot but this is going to be way more
> fun :) I don't even want to think about how much more I'm going to
> have to spend (time & money) to get full use out of it though...
>
> Now I have to go build a cabinet for it...

Way cool! It'll add a lot to your enjoyment of woodworking.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Robatoy wrote:

> In all seriousness... what else are going to buy for $60K that does as
> much as that does? (Aside from the fact that a $ 30K machine will
> almost do it all.) Football, Ballet...

How good can they be? Neither of those machines can spin a rubber chicken!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Not to piss on anyone's Wheaties....

I've seen these sub-$5k cnc machines at woodcraft and woodworking
shows and the results always look pretty lousy.
I can only describe it as woodworking's equivalent to the dot-matrix
printer.

To those who know, those who've used them.... I ask, are they doing
something wrong that makes the "carving" look so cheap? Are there some
sort of resolution settings on the machine or are they using too soft of
wood or what?

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I honestly want to know. I've
considered the possibility of using one to carve a logo in drum shells.
But if they would end up looking like the samples I've seen at their
displays, no thanks.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> Not to piss on anyone's Wheaties....
>
> I've seen these sub-$5k cnc machines at woodcraft and woodworking
> shows and the results always look pretty lousy.
> I can only describe it as woodworking's equivalent to the dot-matrix
> printer.
>
> To those who know, those who've used them.... I ask, are they doing
> something wrong that makes the "carving" look so cheap? Are there some
> sort of resolution settings on the machine or are they using too soft of
> wood or what?
>
> Like I said, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I honestly want to know. I've
> considered the possibility of using one to carve a logo in drum shells.
> But if they would end up looking like the samples I've seen at their
> displays, no thanks.

The cause of crummy results /may/ be the machine, but it can also be the
software used to produce the part program, or it could be poor set up on
the part of the operator - or it could be any combination of the above.

My ShopBot is good for about +/- 0.0015" accuracy. For the guys making
signs or turning sheets of plywood into kitchen cabinets, that seems to
be adequate, but when I started in on CNC joinery I wasn't happy (I was
sufficiently unsatisfied that I built a wooden CNC machine just for
joinery with a step size of 1/4800" which seems to be about right for my
purposes.)

My suggestion is to ask to see the machine produce some work of the
quality you're after. If their machine can't do it, then walk away but
don't stop looking.

If you're adventurous and enjoy a challenge, design and build your own
machine (it's not as difficult as you might imagine, and it's a lot less
expensive than an off-the-shelf product).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
> If you're adventurous and enjoy a challenge, design and build your own
> machine (it's not as difficult as you might imagine, and it's a lot less
> expensive than an off-the-shelf product).
>

Oh geez, you had to go there.

I answer "yes" to both of those, but I'm on too many adventures, right
now. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> If you're adventurous and enjoy a challenge, design and build your own
>> machine (it's not as difficult as you might imagine, and it's a lot
>> less expensive than an off-the-shelf product).
>>
>
> Oh geez, you had to go there.
>
> I answer "yes" to both of those, but I'm on too many adventures, right
> now. :-)

Yabbut just imagine - you could turn out precision router base plates
whenever you wanted. :-))

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> Morris Dovey wrote:
>>> If you're adventurous and enjoy a challenge, design and build your
>>> own machine (it's not as difficult as you might imagine, and it's a
>>> lot less expensive than an off-the-shelf product).
>>>
>>
>> Oh geez, you had to go there.
>>
>> I answer "yes" to both of those, but I'm on too many adventures, right
>> now. :-)
>
> Yabbut just imagine - you could turn out precision router base plates
> whenever you wanted. :-))
>

Oh, can you fit an adjustable hole cutter in a cnc chuck? :-)

Do they have a chainsaw attachment for mortising fence posts?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Kevin wrote:

> May as well pick your brains while I'm at it. I need to order some
> end mills and I'm wondering what size range I ought to have. I'm
> limited to the 1/4" collet of the Colt so nothing bigger than that.
> 1/4" and 1/8" ought to cover most everything for a straight cutter but
> how small do I need to have for ball end for detail 3D work?

That depends on the fineness of the detail. Most of the end mills I've
seen smaller than 1/8" still have 1/8" shanks, so once you have your
collet adapter, you can go about as fine as you like. My KBC Tools
catalog list ball end mills with diameters down to 1/64", and I'd guess
that you should be able to find 1/128 with a bit of looking.

> I found one source that said using a split 1/8 to 1/4 adapter
> increases runout and they offer a pressed on bushing that they say is
> better. Any merit to that?

Perhaps. I think I'd have to wonder if the increase is significant in
the work you do - after all, there isn't any /perfect/ tooling.

> I haven't googled this one yet, but is there a table somewhere for
> feedrate vs diameter and cutting depth?

There's also RPM and number of flutes that need to be considered along
with diameter.

> I'm at a bit of a loss as far as how to price cnc work. There's
> design time and that's straightforward enough, but what about running
> time on the cnc?

Most of the guys I know doing custom CNC routing bill somewhere between
$50 and $75/hour for machine time.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Robatoy wrote:

> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right out
> when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.

All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up in the
'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop cans (at
probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting experiment...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Kevin wrote:
> You'd think they'd
> have some full quality results on hand though too.
>

Exactly.

I sincerely hope you are pleased with it and it suits your needs.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Morris Dovey wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right out
>> when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>
> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up in the
> 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop cans (at
> probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting experiment...
>

What do you used those for?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> You betcha! A bit buzzy at 22,000 revs, but that smooths right out
>>> when it plunges into 3" worth of oak.
>>
>> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up in
>> the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop cans (at
>> probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting experiment...
>
> What do you used those for?

I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for folks in
under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is a DIY-able
check valve that seals decently.

If interested you can see what I have so far at

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html

(the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat source)

If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
"show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll have
some to play with (and improve upon) :)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
>>> All kidding aside, I'm thinking seriously about chucking mine up in
>>> the 'Bot to cut check valve flapper disks from aluminum pop cans (at
>>> probably ~100 RPM). Should be an interesting experiment...
>>
>> What do you used those for?
>
> I'm working on a non-electrical solar pump to supply water for folks in
> under-developed areas. One of the outstanding problems is a DIY-able
> check valve that seals decently.
>
> If interested you can see what I have so far at
>
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/Stirling/5mPump2.html
>
> (the drawing is only of the engine/pump without the solar heat source)
>
> If the pop can flapper works out, I'd kinda like to send out
> "show-n-tell" check valves to the volunteer R&D teams so they'll have
> some to play with (and improve upon) :)
>

I've seen your pump, I try to check in now and then to see how things
are going.

I'm trying to build a shock for my out-feed table, so I can just let it
go and it will glide down to its latch.

I tried a screen door closer, but those have a spring that gives quite a
bit of resistance on the open throw.

I was thinking of some pvc water pipe and a check valve stopper of some
kind. Maybe I could steal one from a bike tire pump.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

> I'm trying to build a shock for my out-feed table, so I can just let it
> go and it will glide down to its latch.
>
> I tried a screen door closer, but those have a spring that gives quite a
> bit of resistance on the open throw.
>
> I was thinking of some pvc water pipe and a check valve stopper of some
> kind. Maybe I could steal one from a bike tire pump.

Hmm - when I dropped in on a guy who's done some machining for me, he
was rebuilding some auto and motorcycle struts. I wonder if a worn-out
strut might be a good solution for you.

If not, I'd think that a UHMWPE or delrin piston with a "pop can"
flapper would work with your PVC pipe approach...

...and if it works well enough that the table takes more than an hour to
lower itself, you should send photos. :-D

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to build a shock for my out-feed table, so I can just let
>> it go and it will glide down to its latch.
>>
>> I tried a screen door closer, but those have a spring that gives quite
>> a bit of resistance on the open throw.
>>
>> I was thinking of some pvc water pipe and a check valve stopper of
>> some kind. Maybe I could steal one from a bike tire pump.
>
> Hmm - when I dropped in on a guy who's done some machining for me, he
> was rebuilding some auto and motorcycle struts. I wonder if a worn-out
> strut might be a good solution for you.
>
> If not, I'd think that a UHMWPE or delrin piston with a "pop can"
> flapper would work with your PVC pipe approach...
>
> ...and if it works well enough that the table takes more than an hour to
> lower itself, you should send photos. :-D
>

LOL, literally. :-)

My first approach was simply a wood cylinder that fit as tight as it
could into pvc, with a cap on the end.
The air escaping around the wood provided a decent pad, but it was the
same in both directions.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Robatoy wrote:
> Think automotive scrapyard. Hatchback gas cylinders van be had for
> next-to-nothing, Even new replacement ones at your PartBoys are
> sometimes reasonable.
> The dampening amount varies with the angle you mount it on.
> Some of them exert serious spring tension.... be careful.
>

Next on the list. :-)

My old minivan (I need to sell!) has two I may use as a proof of
concept. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Robatoy wrote:

> What diameter pipe are you trying to flap? I 'think' I might have an
> idea for a flapper-valve seat which could be done for cheap and from
> local materials.

50mm/2" at present, perhaps 100mm/4" later, and possibly 200mm/8" after
that. The 2" looks like it /should/ be easy, the 4" might be iffy, and
the 8" is likely to be a real challenge (but that pump is going to offer
a number of other challenges anyway).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:57:48 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On Nov 25, 11:47 am, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ordered the smaller CNC shark.  For the type of stuff I do the small
>> one is going to work fine, and will actually fit in the shop.  I was
>> going to put a planer in that spot but this is going to be way more
>> fun :)  I don't even want to think about how much more I'm going to
>> have to spend (time & money) to get full use out of it though...
>>
>> Now I have to go build a cabinet for it...
>>
>> -Kevin
>
>Congrats, those things are a blast!
>
>Can you say: "Slippery slope?"
>
>Hey MORRIS!! We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*

Now that he's hooked, it won't be long before he's here:
http://fwd4.me/63N , or even here: http://fwd4.me/63K

--
Q: How many climate scientists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. There's a consensus that it's going to change, so they've
decided to keep us in the dark.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:22:49 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On Nov 27, 10:00 am, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com>
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:57:48 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Nov 25, 11:47 am, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Ordered the smaller CNC shark.  For the type of stuff I do the small
>> >> one is going to work fine, and will actually fit in the shop.  I was
>> >> going to put a planer in that spot but this is going to be way more
>> >> fun :)  I don't even want to think about how much more I'm going to
>> >> have to spend (time & money) to get full use out of it though...
>>
>> >> Now I have to go build a cabinet for it...
>>
>> >> -Kevin
>>
>> >Congrats, those things are a blast!
>>
>> >Can you say: "Slippery slope?"
>>
>> >Hey MORRIS!!  We got another one!! Bwuahahahaha *diabolical laughter*
>>
>> Now that he's hooked, it won't be long before he's here:http://fwd4.me/63N, or even here:http://fwd4.me/63K
>>
>> --
>> Q: How many climate scientists does it take to change a light bulb?
>>
>> A: None. There's a consensus that it's going to change, so they've
>> decided to keep us in the dark.
>
>In all seriousness... what else are going to buy for $60K that does as
>much as that does? (Aside from the fact that a $ 30K machine will
>almost do it all.) Football, Ballet...

I'd sure rather have one of those nice Laguna CNCs than a stupid
Beemer.

--
Q: How many climate scientists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. There's a consensus that it's going to change, so they've
decided to keep us in the dark.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 12:53:20 -0600, Morris Dovey <[email protected]>
wrote:

>-MIKE- wrote:
>> Not to piss on anyone's Wheaties....
>>
>> I've seen these sub-$5k cnc machines at woodcraft and woodworking
>> shows and the results always look pretty lousy.
>> I can only describe it as woodworking's equivalent to the dot-matrix
>> printer.
>>
>> To those who know, those who've used them.... I ask, are they doing
>> something wrong that makes the "carving" look so cheap? Are there some
>> sort of resolution settings on the machine or are they using too soft of
>> wood or what?
>>
>> Like I said, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I honestly want to know. I've
>> considered the possibility of using one to carve a logo in drum shells.
>> But if they would end up looking like the samples I've seen at their
>> displays, no thanks.
>
>The cause of crummy results /may/ be the machine, but it can also be the
>software used to produce the part program, or it could be poor set up on
>the part of the operator - or it could be any combination of the above.
>
>My ShopBot is good for about +/- 0.0015" accuracy. For the guys making
>signs or turning sheets of plywood into kitchen cabinets, that seems to
>be adequate, but when I started in on CNC joinery I wasn't happy (I was
>sufficiently unsatisfied that I built a wooden CNC machine just for
>joinery with a step size of 1/4800" which seems to be about right for my
>purposes.)

Rockler states: Resolution: Full step of 0.0005 inch; at 1/8 step
0.0000625 inch. I don't know what that translates into for real world
results. I'm thinking in a woodworking show scenario if they are
generating parts in real time then there are compromises as far as
quality vs machining time and they aren't going to have you stand
there for 4 hours waiting for it to do its thing. You'd think they'd
have some full quality results on hand though too.

The software it comes with seems very capable as far as 2D work but
you have to get additional parts to do 3D carving, or go to a
different software package altogether.

I'll find out soon enough!

-Kevin