An earlier thread made me think more about this.
About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of the
table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
single picture at a distance.
I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think it's
going to be quite beautiful.
Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any way.
I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for hire
(or free!).
Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
Thoughts ?
jim bailey
In article <j%[email protected]>, Jim Bailey
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Jim,
I think that you sould relax and enjoy.
A couple of issues ago, FWW ran an excellent article about
how to make scale drawings from photos. It is more involved
than the casual observer might think, but again, it filled with
some great info.
I don't know if this makes "copying" a piece legal or anything,
but if you try to duplicate something "by the seat of your pants"
for yourself and/or loved ones, who could complain.
Why do we buy all those magazines anyhow?
Lou
> An earlier thread made me think more about this.
>
> About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
> picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
> reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of the
> table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
> displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
> oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
>
> I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
> around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
> scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
> basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
> single picture at a distance.
>
> I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think it's
> going to be quite beautiful.
>
> Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
> credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
> profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any way.
>
> I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for hire
> (or free!).
>
> Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
> magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
> that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
>
> Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
> Thoughts ?
>
> jim bailey
>
>
In article <j%[email protected]>,
Jim Bailey <[email protected]> wrote:
>An earlier thread made me think more about this.
>
>About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
>picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
>reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of the
>table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
>displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
>oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
>
>I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
>around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
>scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
>basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
>single picture at a distance.
>
>I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think it's
>going to be quite beautiful.
>
>Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
>credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
>profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any way.
>
>I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for hire
>(or free!).
>
>Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
>magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
>that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
>
>Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
>Thoughts ?
*Your* reason for doing the 'copying' would, it seems to me, fall under
one of the 'fair use' exemptions in copyright statute.
Also, remember that the _ideas_ in a work are not protected. Only the
particular _expression_ of those ideas is. (Sorting out what is the
'idea', from what is the 'expression' of the idea is _one_ of the ways
that lawyers get rich.)
Your 'unwillingness' to build a like work for 'somebody else' is
indicative that 'your heart is in the right place'.
In article <3v%[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> In article <j%[email protected]>,
>> Jim Bailey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>An earlier thread made me think more about this.
>>>
>>>About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
>>>picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
>>>reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of the
>>>table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
>>>displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
>>>oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
>>>
>>>I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
>>>around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
>>>scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
>>>basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
>>>single picture at a distance.
>>>
>>>I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think it's
>>>going to be quite beautiful.
>>>
>>>Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
>>>credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
>>>profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any way.
>>>
>>>I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for hire
>>>(or free!).
>>>
>>>Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
>>>magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
>>>that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
>>>
>>>Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
>>>Thoughts ?
>>
>>
>> *Your* reason for doing the 'copying' would, it seems to me, fall under
>> one of the 'fair use' exemptions in copyright statute.
>
>The you haven't read the act(s) and conventions. Bad advice IMO.
'teaching', 'scholarship', and 'research', cover a *LOT* of territory.
Even if it is just for your own, personal, benefit.
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <j%[email protected]>,
> Jim Bailey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>An earlier thread made me think more about this.
>>
>>About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
>>picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
>>reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of the
>>table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
>>displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
>>oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
>>
>>I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
>>around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
>>scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
>>basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
>>single picture at a distance.
>>
>>I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think it's
>>going to be quite beautiful.
>>
>>Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
>>credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
>>profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any way.
>>
>>I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for hire
>>(or free!).
>>
>>Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
>>magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
>>that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
>>
>>Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
>>Thoughts ?
>
>
> *Your* reason for doing the 'copying' would, it seems to me, fall under
> one of the 'fair use' exemptions in copyright statute.
The you haven't read the act(s) and conventions. Bad advice IMO.
>
> Also, remember that the _ideas_ in a work are not protected. Only the
> particular _expression_ of those ideas is. (Sorting out what is the
> 'idea', from what is the 'expression' of the idea is _one_ of the ways
> that lawyers get rich.)
>
> Your 'unwillingness' to build a like work for 'somebody else' is
> indicative that 'your heart is in the right place'.
>
I think he should quietly enjoy it and not talk about it.
>
>
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
> magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
> that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
I'd take it as a compliment. I've posted on the newsgroup and on my web
page. Everything I do for a design or idea is free for the taking
Woodworking is a hobby that I enjoy and enjoy sharing. Not much different
than if you stopped by the house and used my drill press and had a drink.
I'd feel the same if I had my work published in a national magazine. I
have had a couple of people ask about dimensions on something I've made so
they could copy it or use the general idea.
OTOH, if I was selling plans for a living and you made a copy of one of mine
for all your friends, I'd be PO'd.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
I took a seminar from Sam Maloof many years ago and he was asked this
question because of the plethora of copies of his chair designs that are
sold as original by different woodworkers. He responded that he was
flattered that someone liked his work enough to want to copy and reproduce
his designs. However, he also said that he didn't like people to
commerically reproduce his chairs - the least they could do was give him
credit for the design. But at 70+ years old (back in 1990 or so), he said he
had more than enough business to last him a lifetime (think he said he a 10
year backlog of orders at the time - including the Smithsonian requesting a
number of pieces) and wasn't too concerned about the copying of his designs.
Gary in KC
"Jim Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:j%[email protected]...
> An earlier thread made me think more about this.
>
> About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
> picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
> reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of
the
> table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
> displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
> oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
>
> I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
> around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
> scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
> basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
> single picture at a distance.
>
> I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think
it's
> going to be quite beautiful.
>
> Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
> credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
> profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any
way.
>
> I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for
hire
> (or free!).
>
> Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
> magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
> that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
>
> Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
> Thoughts ?
>
> jim bailey
>
>
Jim Bailey wrote:
> An earlier thread made me think more about this.
>
> About a year ago, thumbing through a wooworking magazine, I ran across a
> picture of a table (coffee table type). It was one of those by-line type
> reports - a single picture and a couple of paragraphs of description of the
> table and the builder. It had a link to the builder's web-site where he
> displayed a few more items - these are all very 'art' type tables etc. -
> oneof a kind type to be displayed at art shows around the country.
>
> I really loved the looks of the table and tore the page out where it layed
> around on my clipboard till a couple of months ago, when i made up my own
> scaled sketch of the same basic table, same idea, different woods, but
> basically the same , or as close as I could guess the dimensions from a
> single picture at a distance.
>
> I'm finishing it up now. Huge amount of very tedious work, but I think it's
> going to be quite beautiful.
>
> Should I feel guilty about copying his design ? Certainly I would offer
> credit to him/his website to anyone who comments on it. I'm not going to
> profit from it (excl enjoyment, learning experience) monetarily in any way.
> I'd have to say no to anyone who might ask me to build one for them for hire
> (or free!).
>
> Would you feel complimented, or irritated, if one your works was in a
> magazine and someone sent you a picture of a close copy of it, telling you
> that they thought it was so beautiful that they just had to build one ?
>
> Just thinking about it - too late to change my mind about building it.
> Thoughts ?
>
> jim bailey
Did you violate copyright law? Probably. Moral rights -- almost
unquestionably -- I would have to know all the circumstances -- was it
really an "original" design... etc...
The violation is in the eye of the originator. I would say mum's the
word at this stage. You should have asked first. If I were in your
situation I would not have made your post. And yes I would have enjoyed
the table -- quietly.
Course -- who knows where _he_ got _his_ design. ;-)
Whether other people would be flattered is irrelevant -- it really
depends on the (original) creator and his bank roll and his state of
mind. No other opinion matters -- indeed if they do not vigorously
"protect" their copyrights then.... Unless you are a big well financed
American firm. :-) Then the government will look after it under the
criminal provisions.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek