"Doug Miller" wrote
> "J. Clarke" wrote:
>>
>>Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
>><http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026>.
>>
>>I needed something to hold some pieces in place a while back, didn't need
>>precision, didn't need much force, just needed to hold them more or less
>>in
>>place for a few minutes, and none of the clamps that I had that were long
>>enough to do the job would fit in the space available
>
> Those are great! I have a pair of those, and for the type of application
> you
> just described, they're perfect.
>
i use them too. Had a friend with a massage office who bought a big,
(expensive) infared lamp made in china. It has some strange connector that I
could not replace that kept coming apart. It was essential for the function
of the lamp. I looked at it closely and determined if I could keep some
external pressure on it, it would work just fine.
So, just like Mr Clark, I spotted these clamps at Lowes and bought some.
They were perfect for the application and their trendy styling fit right
into a massage facility. The big lamp is shiny white and most people think
that the clamp is original equipment and that it is a part of the lamp. The
most popular perception is that it is an adjustment lever of some kind.
The lamp is about $400 and the clamp was about $8. So for $8 and a little
reclamping now and then, everything works just fine.
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:05:33 GMT, Pat Barber
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I still do not understand those guys at JDS...
>
>They could up their volume by thousands if they
>would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
>with what you get.
>
>Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
>just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
>sell with a lower price point.
>
>
Well, unless they're a bunch of shmucks (doubtful) they have probably
run those calculations. I don't know much about the company but it
could be shop based. Lower the price and up the volume and they would
be facing production of a different scale. Since these machines are
not mass market -like IPods or cell phones- it might not make sense
from a logistical or financial perspective.
Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of stuff
for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Nov 7, 9:26 pm, "Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Lots of inspiration here:
> http://www.techno-isel.com/tech_linear.htm
>
RayV wrote:
> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
I love how they sell stuff like that. Check out this picture from the
B&D site:
http://www.blackanddecker.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/LARGE/1/ACC100_A1.jpg
I suppose if you're that inept, an auto-clamp might keep you from
crushing your fingers in a normal clamp. Notice how nice his cuts are
even using a handsaw in that awkward position - the ends of the board
look like they were done on a tablesaw. Most admirable. The tool
selection hanging on that rack is priceless - a couple of paint
rollers, couple of hammers, a large wrench, a couple of putty knives
and a rubber mallet. Yep, time for him to be open up his own cabinet
shop!
R
RayV wrote:
> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?
But then, I'm not exactly a forward thinker. I thought the electric
can opener was a frivolity. The first remote controlled TV seemed
pretty useless too; but back then I could remember what was on the ONE
other channel. When I first heard about this new thing called
electronic mail, a techno-geek excitedly told me we would have to check
it several times a day to keep up with it. My response was, that if
anybody wanted a response from me in less than a day, they could call
me on the phone. Now, I check my email at work several times an hour.
My folks were 75 when I installed a garage door opener over their
objections that it really wasn't too much trouble to get out and raise
the door.
So, maybe this electric clamp fills a need we just haven't discovered
yet.
DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain
Frank Boettcher wrote:
> On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> >needed?
> >http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
>
> If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
> piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.
>
> Frank
And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
braking motor? You better get one of these "in a flash" and suck that
dirty fluid out:
http://tinyurl.com/ybca4a
You'll also need one of these:
http://tinyurl.com/yf4ac6
Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to manage
than a c-clamp.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench...
>
> When I saw that electric tape measure, I howled and laughed at it. I
> ridiculed it. My lovley bride, in her own little world of woman logic,
> thought this was a good sign. So she bought me one for christmas.
>
> I was dumbfounded. I asked her if she realized that this was a piece of
> fluff in a world of real tools. She said that she knew that I did not really
> need it. But since I reacted so strongly to the commercial, she though it
> would be "cute" is she got it for me!!
>
> Whatever happened to gift certificates?
>
> <grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch>
I think that was the same year I got the laser level for hanging
pictures. The laser line is straight as a string - and it works great
. . . if you set it atop a real level so you don't have to depend on
that microscopic little bubble they provided. Of course then you don't
have a free hand to mark with anyway, so I leave the laser device on
the shelf and use a level like I always did.
DonkeyHody
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >Frank Boettcher wrote:
> >> On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> >> >needed?
> >>
> > >http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=152
> >51
> >>
> >>
> >> If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
> >> piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.
> >>
> >> Frank
> >
> >And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
> >braking motor?
>
> And just why would the fluid be "dirty"?
>
Brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes corrosion to the metal parts in
the brake system. The oxidized material then breaks loose and becomes
suspended in the fluid. These fine particals _may_ damage components
especially anti-lock brake motors.
http://ois.nist.gov/nistpubs/technipubs/recent/search.cfm?dbibid=1972
DonkeyHody wrote:
> It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
> everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
> You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
> marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
> folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?
>
Wonderful. Now half the guys in the USA are going to have ONE clamp on
Christmas morning which means that the next day they will have to go
out and buy ANOTHER one so they have a functional pair. Nobody can
have ONE clamp. It's not balanced!
FoggyTown
> Wonderful. Now half the guys in the USA are going to have ONE clamp on
> Christmas morning which means that the next day they will have to go
> out and buy ANOTHER one so they have a functional pair. Nobody can
> have ONE clamp. It's not balanced!
>
> FoggyTown
You know how crowded the stores are right after Christmas with all the
returns and everything. You should save yourself the hassle and go
ahead and buy one now to beat the rush.
DonkeyHody
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >Brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes corrosion to the metal parts in
> >the brake system. The oxidized material then breaks loose and becomes
> >suspended in the fluid.
>
> Well, yes, *if* the system is opened.
Right, because that snap on plastic cap will prevent any mositure laden
air from entering the brake system that was filled at the factory in
zero humidity conditions.
>
> > These fine particals _may_ damage components
> >especially anti-lock brake motors.
> >
> >http://ois.nist.gov/nistpubs/technipubs/recent/search.cfm?dbibid=1972
> >
> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>
Did you ever try decaf?
Doug Miller wrote:
> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>
Hi Doug.
Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
do antilock
breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
pinch the brake
line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
comes out the
bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
could hurt the
antilock break mechanism. Personally, I was too lazy and just changed
it the old
fashioned way. My ABS breaks were fine, but that doesn't mean it always
works.
My car was old enough that I didn't worry about hosing up the anti-lock
feature.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
> >> replaced every time the pads are changed?
> >>
> >
> >Hi Doug.
> >
> >Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
> >do antilock breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
> >pinch the brake line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
> >comes out the bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
> >could hurt the antilock break mechanism.
>
> The Haynes manual for my Saturn doesn't mention any such procedure; it just
> says to remove the cap from the master cylinder reservoir, and use a C-clamp
> to retract the piston.
>
> And I can't imagine that pinching the brake line with a vise-grip pliers does
> anything good for the brake line. Yes, I know you mean the flexible rubber
> line and not the rigid steel line.
>
that was part of the reason I hestiated to do that procedure. Someone
that makes a living
as a mechanic told me that procedure. Of course, that doesn't make it
right...just giving you
an explanation that was given to me.
On Nov 6, 6:23 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The Multi-Router is of a quality that you rarely see
> any longer in this country and I'm surprised they don't cost more. You
> really have to take a close look at one, and put it through it's paces, to
> appreciate the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness that is inherent
> in the beast ... makes the words "fit and finish" too paltry to describe it.
>
Okay, okay okaaaayyyy!!! I surrender... I want one, damn you!!! That
machine oooooozes: "buy me, buy me!!!"
(*practising my rationalization*: the mix of engineering, accuracy and
robustness, the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness, the mix of
engineering, accuracy and robustness.)
But I will wait for jBot. <g>
r
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >> >
> >> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
> >> replaced every time the pads are changed?
> >
> >Did you ever try decaf?
>
> Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?
Not as often as I should.
>
> I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
> retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
> risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
> that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
> in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?
Perhaps you didn't fully read my post that finished with this:
"Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to
manage than a c-clamp.
http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench... "
So my suggestion that that using a c-clamp to push the caliper back in
could contaminate your system was partly in jest.
However
None of the many manufacturers procedures I have read mention a
c-clamp. Most have a part # referencing a specific tool to retract the
calipers. So a c-clamp is usually wrong but most DIYers use them. The
biggest problem with using a c-clamp is that you can't always get
them to press on the center of the piston. Scoring, cocking the piston
and tearing the seal are much more common than pushing dirt backwards
to damage another component.
Several manufacturers recommend changing your brake fluid as often as
once a year to reduce the chances of corrosion. So that could mean a
fluid change more often than your pads are changed.
Do I use a c-clamp to retract the piston? Almost exclusively.
Do I flush my brake fluid and replace with fresh annually? Nope.
Can using a c-clamp to retract a piston damage your brake system if the
bleeder isn't opened? Yes, but you probably have a greater chance of
breaking off the bleed screw than damaging something else by not
opening it.
bf wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
> > And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
> > replaced every time the pads are changed?
> >
>
> Hi Doug.
>
> Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
> do antilock
> breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
> pinch the brake
> line.
I've heard this before and would never do it (pinching the line that
is). Even though the lines are tiny the amount of pressure inside them
is very high and forcibly deforming a high pressure hose doesn't sound
good to me.
Joe Bemier wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:05:33 GMT, Pat Barber
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I still do not understand those guys at JDS...
> >
> >They could up their volume by thousands if they
> >would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
> >with what you get.
> >
> >Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
> >just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
> >sell with a lower price point.
> >
> >
> Well, unless they're a bunch of shmucks (doubtful) they have probably
> run those calculations. I don't know much about the company but it
> could be shop based. Lower the price and up the volume and they would
> be facing production of a different scale. Since these machines are
> not mass market -like IPods or cell phones- it might not make sense
> from a logistical or financial perspective.
I've decided to wait until the 110 volt version comes out. Unless of
course they enhance the "cordlessness" in a new version that has a
little 1/20 hp Briggs & Stratton engine attached.
FoggyTown
This guy in the photo has it all wrong.
He needs to turn the board around,set on it. cup of java in left hand
saw in right hand.
OOOH be carefull not to get any sawdust in your java, mite be bad for
you.
RicodJour wrote:
> RayV wrote:
> > I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> > needed?
> > http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
> I love how they sell stuff like that. Check out this picture from the
> B&D site:
> http://www.blackanddecker.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/LARGE/1/ACC100_A1.jpg
> I suppose if you're that inept, an auto-clamp might keep you from
> crushing your fingers in a normal clamp. Notice how nice his cuts are
> even using a handsaw in that awkward position - the ends of the board
> look like they were done on a tablesaw. Most admirable. The tool
> selection hanging on that rack is priceless - a couple of paint
> rollers, couple of hammers, a large wrench, a couple of putty knives
> and a rubber mallet. Yep, time for him to be open up his own cabinet
> shop!
>
> R
On Nov 7, 9:26 pm, "Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote:
Lots of inspiration here:
http://www.techno-isel.com/tech_linear.htm
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
I don't know about lazy, but I can think of MANY times I was clamping
something with C-clamps and needed a third hand to hold the parts, line up
the clamp and twist the screw down. Now if it were made by someone other
than B&D!
Greg
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
> <http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026>.
>
>
I have a few clamps like them, but sometimes I need the clearance that a
c-clamp has.
Mind you I am not buying any B&D clamps!
Greg
"Robatoy" wrote in message
>
>
> On Nov 6, 6:23 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
> >The Multi-Router is of a quality that you rarely see
> > any longer in this country and I'm surprised they don't cost more. You
> > really have to take a close look at one, and put it through it's paces,
to
> > appreciate the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness that is
inherent
> > in the beast ... makes the words "fit and finish" too paltry to describe
it.
> >
> Okay, okay okaaaayyyy!!! I surrender... I want one, damn you!!! That
> machine oooooozes: "buy me, buy me!!!"
>
> (*practising my rationalization*: the mix of engineering, accuracy and
> robustness, the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness, the mix of
> engineering, accuracy and robustness.)
>
> But I will wait for jBot. <g>
LOL ... but with the M-R, you actually have to touch wood. ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "DonkeyHody" wrote
>>
>> It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
>> everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
>> You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
>> marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
>> folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?
>>
>
> When I saw that electric tape measure, I howled and laughed at it. I
> ridiculed it. My lovley bride, in her own little world of woman logic,
> thought this was a good sign. So she bought me one for christmas.
>
> I was dumbfounded. I asked her if she realized that this was a piece of
> fluff in a world of real tools. She said that she knew that I did not
> really need it. But since I reacted so strongly to the commercial, she
> though it would be "cute" is she got it for me!!
>
> Whatever happened to gift certificates?
>
> <grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch>
Funnily enough I posted last year on that very tape measure. I thought it
was downright ridiculous. What did my admin at work get me that year?
Yup. Still sitting in the garage in it's packaging. She'll probably get
me one of their "Battery Powered" crescent wrenches this year.....I can't
wait.
Cheers,
cc
"DonkeyHody" wrote
>
> It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
> everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
> You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
> marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
> folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?
>
When I saw that electric tape measure, I howled and laughed at it. I
ridiculed it. My lovley bride, in her own little world of woman logic,
thought this was a good sign. So she bought me one for christmas.
I was dumbfounded. I asked her if she realized that this was a piece of
fluff in a world of real tools. She said that she knew that I did not really
need it. But since I reacted so strongly to the commercial, she though it
would be "cute" is she got it for me!!
Whatever happened to gift certificates?
<grumble, grumble, bitch, bitch>
No, I have to admit I have not and what you say is probably
correct.
Being in the computer business, I agree with you about
laptops.
Swingman wrote:
> Have you had any hands on with one? I could be way off base, but IMO it is
> pretty hard to imagine a machine of that quality/caliber priced much lower
> than it is.
>
> Hell, folks pay that much for a laptop that's obsolete in two years.
In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>> >needed?
>>
> >http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=152
>51
>>
>>
>> If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
>> piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.
>>
>> Frank
>
>And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
>braking motor?
And just why would the fluid be "dirty"?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
I just want to find some good pics to build one. Can't justify the price
but I have lots of applicable parts.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I still do not understand those guys at JDS...
>
> They could up their volume by thousands if they
> would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
> with what you get.
>
> Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
> just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
> sell with a lower price point.
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
><http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026>.
>
>I needed something to hold some pieces in place a while back, didn't need
>precision, didn't need much force, just needed to hold them more or less in
>place for a few minutes, and none of the clamps that I had that were long
>enough to do the job would fit in the space available
Those are great! I have a pair of those, and for the type of application you
just described, they're perfect.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Ron Moore" wrote in message
> Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of stuff
> for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
> functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.
Is your e-mail good and can you receive attachments? I'll be glad to take
pictures for you, from all angles, of the beast.
Just say the word.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
If you actually look at this photo
http://www.blackanddecker.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/SMALL/1/ACC100_A1.gif
The wood looks like it first was cut on a TS. Then the guy looks to be
strugling to cut a piece of pine with a hand saw. There must be a magical
pencil line as I can't see one or he wants to cut it at a random angle. How
did our fore fathers manage to cut all of that wood for houses, barns,
sheds, etc. without this miracle invention.
Then if you look at this photo
http://www.blackanddecker.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/SMALL/1/ACC100_A2.gif
You see that she must have one of the most powerful dust collectors out
there as there is zero dust on the clamp, work piece, bench, hands, or
sandpaper. And just imagine that it is made by B&D. Who would have thought.
Last looking at this photo and comparing it to the one above.
http://www.blackanddecker.com//ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/POWER_TOOLS/TOOLS/SMALL/1/ACC100_A3.gif
You see in the background that there is a power sander sitting on the
workbench. Also I would love some of that non clogging sand paper she has. I
would never have to explain to SWMBO that yes I do have to buy more and no
it doesn't last forever.
Allen
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
Lazy? I don't know, but I do know my Dad could have used a couple of
these when he was trying to do one-handed woodworking after his stroke.
Doubt the B&D brass had that market in mind, though.
RayV wrote:
> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
>
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=1
5251
Thats B&D for you...always looking to turn a tool into a gimmick.
On saying that I have strugggled a couple of times when I wish I had 3
hands. :-)
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
Ron,
Sorry if this doesn't apply, as I only caught part of this thread and
believe that you are talking about a Multi-router. If so, then the following
link may be of interest.
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=powertools&file=articles_110.shtml
The original website is at www.woodisourart.com and is shown under "The
Shop".
Hope this helps.
Peter.
"Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just want to find some good pics to build one. Can't justify the price
>but I have lots of applicable parts.
> Respectfully,
> Ron Moore
>
> "Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I still do not understand those guys at JDS...
>>
>> They could up their volume by thousands if they
>> would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
>> with what you get.
>>
>> Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
>> just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
>> sell with a lower price point.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Hey...when you run with the "Big Dogs", it appears
that you need to pay up ???
$165 for a tool stand is a little strong also...
Swingman wrote:
>
> Nothing lazy about it ... it's amazing how much time and effort placing,
> tightening, and loosening clamps is expended when 'batching' multiple parts,
> say mortises in both ends of 72 slats! DAMHIKT
>
> Here is a pair that JDS sells for the Multi-router:
>
> http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=58
>
> ... ouch!
>
The return address is correct or send to ron at mlogical.com. Thanks for
the help.
Ron
Don't know what happened to the first try I sent???
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ron Moore" wrote in message
>> Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of
>> stuff
>> for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
>> functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.
>
> Is your e-mail good and can you receive attachments? I'll be glad to take
> pictures for you, from all angles, of the beast.
>
> Just say the word.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/29/06
>
>
"RayV" <[email protected]> writes:
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>needed?
>http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
It would seem to make sense for woodworkers with carpel tunnel or arthritis
which prevent or diminish gripping force.
scott
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
> "RayV" writes:
> >I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> >needed?
>
>http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=1
5251
> >
>
> It would seem to make sense for woodworkers with carpel tunnel or
arthritis
> which prevent or diminish gripping force.
If someone would make one that is both pneumatic, cost effective, and could
be adapted for use on the multi-router, I would buy a couple or three in
heartbeat.
Nothing lazy about it ... it's amazing how much time and effort placing,
tightening, and loosening clamps is expended when 'batching' multiple parts,
say mortises in both ends of 72 slats! DAMHIKT
Here is a pair that JDS sells for the Multi-router:
http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=58
... ouch!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
In article <[email protected]>, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
>> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>>
>
>Hi Doug.
>
>Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
>do antilock breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
>pinch the brake line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
>comes out the bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
>could hurt the antilock break mechanism.
The Haynes manual for my Saturn doesn't mention any such procedure; it just
says to remove the cap from the master cylinder reservoir, and use a C-clamp
to retract the piston.
And I can't imagine that pinching the brake line with a vise-grip pliers does
anything good for the brake line. Yes, I know you mean the flexible rubber
line and not the rigid steel line.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?Product
> ID=15251
>
Don't know if I'd go quite as far as something like this, but there have
been a few time I'd give up a body part to do without the crossbar to
tighten a clamp in a tight spot...
In article <[email protected]>,
DonkeyHody <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>RayV wrote:
>> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>> needed?
>>
>http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
>It's not a matter of whether the product is needed or not. Women
>everywhere in search of Christmas presents will buy them for their men.
> You'll be lucky if you don't get one yourself! What a clever bunch of
>marketers. They can create a "need" out of thin air. Aren't they the
>folks that brought us the electric retractable tape measure?
>
>But then, I'm not exactly a forward thinker. I thought the electric
>can opener was a frivolity. The first remote controlled TV seemed
>pretty useless too; but back then I could remember what was on the ONE
>other channel. When I first heard about this new thing called
>electronic mail, a techno-geek excitedly told me we would have to check
>it several times a day to keep up with it. My response was, that if
>anybody wanted a response from me in less than a day, they could call
>me on the phone. Now, I check my email at work several times an hour.
>My folks were 75 when I installed a garage door opener over their
>objections that it really wasn't too much trouble to get out and raise
>the door.
>
>So, maybe this electric clamp fills a need we just haven't discovered
>yet.
>
>DonkeyHody
>"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
>that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
>on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
>again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
>one anymore." - Mark Twain
>
Yeah, my Mom at age 83 finally accepted a microwave as a gift. It took
a few months but now she uses it every day. I remeber trying to give
them one about 15 or 20 eyars ago, my Dad was still alive at the time
and recently retired, said, "What do we need that for, we don't need
to save any time any more."
BTW, maybe cats were not as smart in Mark Twain's day, but my
observation is that he was mistaken in this particular quote.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "RayV"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >Doug Miller wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
>> >> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>> >
>> >Did you ever try decaf?
>>
>> Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?
>
>Not as often as I should.
>
>>
>> I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
>> retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
>> risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
>> that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
>> in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?
>
>Perhaps you didn't fully read my post that finished with this:
>"Seriously, this little gadget works great and is a lot easier to
>manage than a c-clamp.
>http://tinyurl.com/ybhpm4
>You probably have the parts to make one sitting on your bench... "
Yes, I read the whole thing. Including the part quoted above, which simply
shows another mechanism for pushing the caliper piston back -- which you said
could damage the system by forcing contaminated fluid backwards.
>So my suggestion that that using a c-clamp to push the caliper back in
>could contaminate your system was partly in jest.
You're starting to sound like John Kerry -- it was just a botched joke.
>However
>None of the many manufacturers procedures I have read mention a
>c-clamp. Most have a part # referencing a specific tool to retract the
>calipers.
You need to get out more.
I have a Dodge truck, a Suburban, and a Saturn. I have the factory service
manuals for both trucks, and a Haynes manual for the Saturn. _All_three_ say
to use a C-clamp. None of them even mention the existence, let alone the use,
of any special tool, and the illustrations accompanying the text show a
C-clamp.
I've also had a Fiat, an Oldsmobile, a Buick, and two Mazdas, all equipped
with disc brakes at least on the front, and the factory service manuals for
each -- and I have yet to see a brake-pad procedure that does not recommend a
C-clamp to retract the piston on the front calipers. (Rears are a different
story, but that's because of the emergency-brake mechanism.)
>So a c-clamp is usually wrong but most DIYers use them.
In my experience, most DIYers use them because they're the tool recommended by
the manufacturer.
>The
>biggest problem with using a c-clamp is that you can't always get
>them to press on the center of the piston.
That's not a problem with using a C-clamp per se -- that's a problem with
using a C-clamp that's too small.
>Scoring, cocking the piston
>and tearing the seal are much more common than pushing dirt backwards
>to damage another component.
I'm sure that's true -- partly because using a too-small clamp or putting it
on cockeyed is fairly easy to do, and partly because pushing dirt backwards
isn't anywhere _near_ the problem you made it out to be.
>Several manufacturers recommend changing your brake fluid as often as
>once a year to reduce the chances of corrosion. So that could mean a
>fluid change more often than your pads are changed.
Which manufacturers would those be?
>
>Do I use a c-clamp to retract the piston? Almost exclusively.
>Do I flush my brake fluid and replace with fresh annually? Nope.
>Can using a c-clamp to retract a piston damage your brake system if the
>bleeder isn't opened? Yes
No. Not likely anyway.
>, but you probably have a greater chance of
>breaking off the bleed screw than damaging something else by not
>opening it.
You did get that part right.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
> Well, unless they're a bunch of shmucks (doubtful) they have probably
> run those calculations. I don't know much about the company but it
> could be shop based. Lower the price and up the volume and they would
> be facing production of a different scale. Since these machines are
> not mass market -like IPods or cell phones- it might not make sense
> from a logistical or financial perspective.
I'm sure it doesn't. The Multi-Router is of a quality that you rarely see
any longer in this country and I'm surprised they don't cost more. You
really have to take a close look at one, and put it through it's paces, to
appreciate the mix of engineering, accuracy and robustness that is inherent
in the beast ... makes the words "fit and finish" too paltry to describe it.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
I'll not be using the cord on my Recip saw any more. I can make it saw with
out the motor. ;~)
In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> >
>> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
>> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>
>Did you ever try decaf?
Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?
I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
> The ad says that a set of batteries will operate the clamp 60 times. I
> can just imaging how frustrating it would be to be all set up and
> depending on that "one handed operation" when the batteries quit.
People are going to be using a lot of batteries then. The first several
dozen times the clamp is used will be people playing around with it.
The return address is correct or send to ron at mlogical.com. Thanks for
the help.
Ron
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ron Moore" wrote in message
>> Good site, looks like. However, I have been collecting that kind of
>> stuff
>> for several years. I just need to see how the thing goes together or
>> functions a little closer to build one. I do appreciate the site link.
>
> Is your e-mail good and can you receive attachments? I'll be glad to take
> pictures for you, from all angles, of the beast.
>
> Just say the word.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/29/06
>
>
"Greg O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>> needed?
>> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>>
>
> I don't know about lazy, but I can think of MANY times I was clamping
> something with C-clamps and needed a third hand to hold the parts, line up
> the clamp and twist the screw down. Now if it were made by someone other
> than B&D!
Have you ever tried Irwin Quick-Grip clamps? I'm talking about these
<http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/browse.jhtml?catId=IrwinCat100026>.
I needed something to hold some pieces in place a while back, didn't need
precision, didn't need much force, just needed to hold them more or less in
place for a few minutes, and none of the clamps that I had that were long
enough to do the job would fit in the space available (one of those deals
where you reach a point that "if that %^&* thing falls on my head _one_ more
time . . ." ). Went down to Home Depot to look for something that would
hold them and saw a four-pack of Mini Quick-Grips for something like 30
bucks--on the basis that they'd do _that_ job and one can never have too
many clamps, even lousy ones, I went with those rather than plan A, which
was carpet tape. Turns out they actually work--they're not a substitute for
Bessey Ks but they're darned handy, mainly because they can be used
one-handed and exert a reasonable amount of clamping force. I'll usually
grab one of those instead of a small handscrew to hold a stop block or the
like now that I have them. Ended up going back and getting another pack of
them.
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:41:27 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
>>> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>>>
>>
>>Hi Doug.
>>
>>Please don't take this as gospel, but I've been told the correct way to
>>do antilock breaks is to open up the bleeding valve, and then use a vice grip to
>>pinch the brake line. Then the theory is that when you push the pads back, the fluid
>>comes out the bleeder valve instead of "backwashing" back into the system where it
>>could hurt the antilock break mechanism.
>
>The Haynes manual for my Saturn doesn't mention any such procedure; it just
>says to remove the cap from the master cylinder reservoir, and use a C-clamp
>to retract the piston.
As do mine for a Chrysler T & C, Dodge Dakota, and Honda Accord
>
>And I can't imagine that pinching the brake line with a vise-grip pliers does
>anything good for the brake line. Yes, I know you mean the flexible rubber
>line and not the rigid steel line.
On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>needed?
>http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
Would be foolish to buy one of those when you can buy another K-body
Bessey!
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:00:31 GMT, "Rick's Cabinet Shop"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>To me, that seems as 'bout worthwhile as putting a laser beam on a cordless
>drill.
Hey, then you could play Laser Tag with your tools! Cool idea! ;)
In article <[email protected]>, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "RayV"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> >> On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>> >> >needed?
>> >>
>> >
> >http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=152
>> >51
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
>> >> piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.
>> >>
>> >> Frank
>> >
>> >And force all that dirty fluid back through the sensitive anti-lock
>> >braking motor?
>>
>> And just why would the fluid be "dirty"?
>>
>
>Brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes corrosion to the metal parts in
>the brake system. The oxidized material then breaks loose and becomes
>suspended in the fluid.
Well, yes, *if* the system is opened.
> These fine particals _may_ damage components
>especially anti-lock brake motors.
>
>http://ois.nist.gov/nistpubs/technipubs/recent/search.cfm?dbibid=1972
>
And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
replaced every time the pads are changed?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
To me, that seems as 'bout worthwhile as putting a laser beam on a cordless
drill.
--
Rick Nagy
Johnstown, PA
[email protected] - Remove nospam to email me
Be sure to check out my website at http://www.rickscabinetshop.com
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
>
I suppose that this could be used for some kind of delicate, one hand
glueing operation, MAYBE.
What I thought was funny is that it used 4 AA batteries. How long does this
thing last with that anemic power source? You would think, being black and
decker and all, that they would have made it compatible with some of their
cheapy rechargable battery packs.
But no, they use the same batteries as my wall clock. Maybe they thought
nobody was actually going to USE this thing.
I also have to wonder if this thing can even clamp with very much pressure.
You probably have to hand tighten the thing when that little motor stops
pushing.
I think I can manage without it.
In article <[email protected]>,
B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>RayV wrote:
>> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>> needed?
>
>Look at the brand name.
>
>Who do you think will be the primary marketing target?
Personally I wouldn't buy these for clamping, but if the screw operates
under power in both directions and the switch leads could be brought
out externally, I could envision some neat uses for these things
as positioning mechanisms or in home made robots & such.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
The ad says that a set of batteries will operate the clamp 60 times. I
can just imaging how frustrating it would be to be all set up and
depending on that "one handed operation" when the batteries quit.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
In article <[email protected]>,
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>"RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>> >
>>> And do you suggest, then, that the brake fluid needs to be flushed and
>>> replaced every time the pads are changed?
>>
>>Did you ever try decaf?
>
>Did you ever try exploring the logical consequences of your comments?
>
>I was responding specifically to your suggestion that using a C-clamp to
>retract the caliper piston -- which needs to be done when changing pads --
>risks damage from contaminated fluid. If that's so, the logical conclusion is
>that the fluid should be flushed and replaced whenever the pads are changed,
>in order to avoid that damage. Is that your contention?
>
>--
>Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
>It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Hey guys, lets come down to earth here. I've been working in vehicle
maintenance for 26 years, the last 10 or so as a supervisor. believe
me, most of the time those C clamps sit in the toolbox. Especially in
flat rate shops. Unless the piston is stuck, 9 time out of 10 the mech
will just jam a medium sized prybar in there wherever he can get a
bite and get that piston retracted before he even removes it from
the disc.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
In article <[email protected]>,
Greg O <[email protected]> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>I don't know about lazy, but I can think of MANY times I was clamping
>something with C-clamps and needed a third hand to hold the parts, line up
>the clamp and twist the screw down.
No doubt if you were using one of these clamps, that would be the same
time the batteries decided to go dead.
>
>
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - [email protected]
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, RayV wrote:
> I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
> needed?
> http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
As long as these exist you can bet that we really are *that* lazy:
<http://www.smuckers.com/fg/otg/uncrustables/default.asp>
--
-Joe Wells
"Here stands baseball's perfect warrior. Here stands baseball's perfect knight."
-Ford Frick upon Stan Musial's retirement
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:11:32 -0600, Frank Boettcher
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
>piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.
It doesn't look like it's nearly that strong. I mean, I ended up
bending a c-clamp on my wife's car when I was redoing her brakes,
those pistons are a pain!
On 6 Nov 2006 06:59:49 -0800, "RayV" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I guess the market will decide but is this a product that is really
>needed?
>http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15251
If it fits on a brake caliper and has enough push to to flush the
piston back, I'll buy one in a flash.
Frank
"Pat Barber" wrote in message
> Hey...when you run with the "Big Dogs", it appears
> that you need to pay up ???
Well ... el perrito barks "NO" at that price.
> $165 for a tool stand is a little strong also...
Like a good little wooddorker, I fashioned my own out of one I already had.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06
"Pat Barber" wrote in message
> I still do not understand those guys at JDS...
>
> They could up their volume by thousands if they
> would price that stupid Multi-router more in line
> with what you get.
>
> Trying to hit a home run with every single sale is
> just plain dumb. I can not imagine how many they would
> sell with a lower price point.
Have you had any hands on with one? I could be way off base, but IMO it is
pretty hard to imagine a machine of that quality/caliber priced much lower
than it is.
Hell, folks pay that much for a laptop that's obsolete in two years.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06