Okay, I'm trying to move work along a little faster here, getting away from
hand-jointing all the time... So I now have a Delta 6" jointer (mode 37-195)
and after doing a google search for ideas, I see that my problem is different
from most:
It seems that I have *negative* sag on my infeed table.
That is to say, relative to the outfeed table, the infeed table (on the right
side) goes down and to the left. A board with a nice square end therefore hits
the rightmost edge of the outfeed table and has to "jump up" before continuing.
The same is true when I ran a good straightedge in the direction of feed.
Most of the articles I've seen address the problem of infeed table sagging in
the other direction.
I know I'm not building a space shuttle here, but I'd like to get it a good bit
closer, and having a piece stop because it hits the outfeed table is neither
good for getting a straight edge, nor is it particularly safe!
Any advice or references I could check out? The manual doesn't go into too much
detail about table adjustment other than how to tighten the gibs.
Thanks!
Joe
"Jim Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ab1768128a7015d989810@localhost...
> Joe Helmick wrote...
> > Any advice or references I could check out? The manual doesn't go
> > into too much detail about table adjustment other than how to tighten
> > the gibs.
>
> First of all, I don't know your particular jointer, so there could be
> some adjustment on it for this misalignment. However, I *have* seen your
> problem before on a different jointer, and the fix was to shim between
> the table and the base.
>
> Jim
Some years back I re furbished a 24" Daenkurt planer / thicknesser, this had
provision on both in & outfeed tables for shims. The normal method is to
shim the out-feed table only; instal a shim, adjust the table to be the
exact height of the blades, I use a flat steel parallel on the O/F table
with a dial indicator over the cutter head and rotate the cutter block by
hand (against normal direction of cut) and watch the indicator and adjust
for about a 1 thou rise. Actually I use 2 indicators one on each side of
the table. (If you don't have a dial indicator use a flat piece of wood with
a laser pointer fixed to it and mark the surface where the beam falls. )
Span both tables with a long straight edge, I use a 24" rule held on edge
against a magnet, raise the I/F table until the indicator just moves, check
for gaps and repeat as necessary. The best shims are brass, but Al kitchen
foil is a reasonable substitute.
Bernard R
Joe,
I wouldn't give up on it yet. Is it possible to drill through in the broken
area and put a bolt into a supporting bracket?
It is worth while talking to a small welding shop, though I think the
correct repair would be a braze in this situation. I found in the past that
the small shops were sympathetic when they found out I was a hobyist and
mainly just asked me to put something in their coffee fund, that was when I
was in the U.K.
Bernard R
"Joe Helmick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> UPDATE
>
> Well, close inspection has revealed at least one major problem. The rear
> dovetail way on the infeed table is broken.
>
> Yep, the "wall" of the angled part of the dovetail way is cracked pretty
> noticeably and bent away from the gib.
>
> I talked to the local Delta & Porter/Cable service guy -- his take is that
> although it *can* be pushed back into place and welded, it'll never be the
same
> as new again. And then there's the machining cleanup of the weld, and the
> disassembly and reassembly.... bottom line is that it's going to be
costly to
> fix, the price approaching that of a new machine. Bummer.
>
> He also said that broken ways are pretty common on smaller jointers,
because
> they're light enough to be a two-man carry.... so people (and movers) haul
them
> around by the table ends. Very bad. Finally he said that there's really
no
> good way to transport a jointer, and that the only really safe way was to
> disassemble the machine and reassemble it at the new site.
>
> I wish I'd known this when I moved here to CO in June of last year. I
never
> thought to inspect my machines that closely!
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Helmick <[email protected]> bellowed forth with this wisdom for all
to
> hear:
>
> > Okay, I'm trying to move work along a little faster here, getting away
from
> > hand-jointing all the time... So I now have a Delta 6" jointer (mode
37-195)
> > and after doing a google search for ideas, I see that my problem is
different
> > from most:
> >
> > It seems that I have *negative* sag on my infeed table.
> >
> > That is to say, relative to the outfeed table, the infeed table (on the
right
> > side) goes down and to the left. A board with a nice square end
therefore hits
> > the rightmost edge of the outfeed table and has to "jump up" before
continuing.
> > The same is true when I ran a good straightedge in the direction of
feed.
> >
> > Most of the articles I've seen address the problem of infeed table
sagging in
> > the other direction.
> >
> > I know I'm not building a space shuttle here, but I'd like to get it a
good bit
> > closer, and having a piece stop because it hits the outfeed table is
neither
> > good for getting a straight edge, nor is it particularly safe!
> >
> > Any advice or references I could check out? The manual doesn't go into
too much
> > detail about table adjustment other than how to tighten the gibs.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Joe
> >
>
Joe,
Sounds like a good first step to me. Keep us informed how its going.
Bernard R
"Joe Helmick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bernard,
>
> I was thinking of your first option, running a few #10 hex socket machine
screws
> through the piece and down into the main casting. Drilling the top holes
for a
> tight fit and bottom part of the hole for tight threads...
>
> Joe
>
> "Bernard Randall" <[email protected]> bellowed forth with this
wisdom
> for all to hear:
>
> > Joe,
> >
> > I wouldn't give up on it yet. Is it possible to drill through in the
broken
> > area and put a bolt into a supporting bracket?
> >
> > It is worth while talking to a small welding shop, though I think the
> > correct repair would be a braze in this situation. I found in the past
that
> > the small shops were sympathetic when they found out I was a hobyist
and
> > mainly just asked me to put something in their coffee fund, that was
when I
> > was in the U.K.
> >
> > Bernard R
> >
>
Buy some shim stock. Then shim both the infeed and outfeed tables as
needed. First, look at the manual and check out tightening/adjusting the
gibs. You may be able to take out the differences that way.
Graingers sells shim stock as does a lot of automotive parts houses. And
you can use feel gauges in a pinch.
Philski
UPDATE
Well, close inspection has revealed at least one major problem. The rear
dovetail way on the infeed table is broken.
Yep, the "wall" of the angled part of the dovetail way is cracked pretty
noticeably and bent away from the gib.
I talked to the local Delta & Porter/Cable service guy -- his take is that
although it *can* be pushed back into place and welded, it'll never be the same
as new again. And then there's the machining cleanup of the weld, and the
disassembly and reassembly.... bottom line is that it's going to be costly to
fix, the price approaching that of a new machine. Bummer.
He also said that broken ways are pretty common on smaller jointers, because
they're light enough to be a two-man carry.... so people (and movers) haul them
around by the table ends. Very bad. Finally he said that there's really no
good way to transport a jointer, and that the only really safe way was to
disassemble the machine and reassemble it at the new site.
I wish I'd known this when I moved here to CO in June of last year. I never
thought to inspect my machines that closely!
Joe
Joe Helmick <[email protected]> bellowed forth with this wisdom for all to
hear:
> Okay, I'm trying to move work along a little faster here, getting away from
> hand-jointing all the time... So I now have a Delta 6" jointer (mode 37-195)
> and after doing a google search for ideas, I see that my problem is different
> from most:
>
> It seems that I have *negative* sag on my infeed table.
>
> That is to say, relative to the outfeed table, the infeed table (on the right
> side) goes down and to the left. A board with a nice square end therefore hits
> the rightmost edge of the outfeed table and has to "jump up" before continuing.
> The same is true when I ran a good straightedge in the direction of feed.
>
> Most of the articles I've seen address the problem of infeed table sagging in
> the other direction.
>
> I know I'm not building a space shuttle here, but I'd like to get it a good bit
> closer, and having a piece stop because it hits the outfeed table is neither
> good for getting a straight edge, nor is it particularly safe!
>
> Any advice or references I could check out? The manual doesn't go into too much
> detail about table adjustment other than how to tighten the gibs.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joe
>
Joe Helmick wrote...
> Any advice or references I could check out? The manual doesn't go
> into too much detail about table adjustment other than how to tighten
> the gibs.
First of all, I don't know your particular jointer, so there could be
some adjustment on it for this misalignment. However, I *have* seen your
problem before on a different jointer, and the fix was to shim between
the table and the base.
Jim
Joe Helmick <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> UPDATE
>
> Well, close inspection has revealed at least one major problem. The
> rear dovetail way on the infeed table is broken.
BUMMER!
Bernard Randall wrote...
> I wouldn't give up on it yet. Is it possible to drill through in the broken
> area and put a bolt into a supporting bracket?
Unfortunately, I don't think a threaded faster can provide the mechanical
strength needed for a dovetail way.
> It is worth while talking to a small welding shop, though I think the
> correct repair would be a braze in this situation. I found in the past that
> the small shops were sympathetic when they found out I was a hobyist and
> mainly just asked me to put something in their coffee fund, that was when I
> was in the U.K.
The suggestion to "make friends" with a local small welding shop is spot
on.
The filler rods I've used for brazing butt-joints in cast iron required a
substantial gap (1/16 to 1/8") between the parts to allow enough filler
material flow to create a strong joint. That means some material would
need to be removed, either before brazing or during subsequent machining.
When two parts are brazed together with fillets, the fillets provide the
strength. But if I understand the OP's problem, most of any fillets,
along with the repair strength, would be lost in machining the repaired
part back into shape.
Cast iron isn't the easiest thing to weld, but done properly, it should
yield a better repair than brazing -- at least as strong as the original
casting.
Since the dovetail is structurally damaged, it may very likely require
machining after welding. I'd recommend making friends with a small local
machinist, too. It sounds to me like the rep the OP spoke with got it
right. The work required to repair the machine -- at reasonable shop
rates -- will run close to the cost of replacement. The only way out
that I can see is to get the work done for less than market rates. That
means "making friends."
Good luck!
Jim
Bernard,
I was thinking of your first option, running a few #10 hex socket machine screws
through the piece and down into the main casting. Drilling the top holes for a
tight fit and bottom part of the hole for tight threads...
Joe
"Bernard Randall" <[email protected]> bellowed forth with this wisdom
for all to hear:
> Joe,
>
> I wouldn't give up on it yet. Is it possible to drill through in the broken
> area and put a bolt into a supporting bracket?
>
> It is worth while talking to a small welding shop, though I think the
> correct repair would be a braze in this situation. I found in the past that
> the small shops were sympathetic when they found out I was a hobyist and
> mainly just asked me to put something in their coffee fund, that was when I
> was in the U.K.
>
> Bernard R
>