Hi there, this is my first post (and first wood working project!).
I'd like to build a table. For simplicities sake, we'll say it's a
coffee table, dimensions 2 x 8.
My plan is to use some sort of engineering epoxy to stick two pieces
of sheet metal together, then using either wood glue or epoxy again to
encase the now one piece of sheet metal between two thin pieces of
wood.
So in recap, I now have a 2 x 8 metal sandwich that's (by layer): Wood
-> Metal -> Metal-> Wood.
After this, I assume, I should sand the pieces of wood, and probably
the sides as well. I plan on staining the wood, then painting a
design on it.
After the staining/painting process, it'll be time to attach the
legs. I do not want straight legs, I want those slightly bowed legs
with feet on them...Know what I'm talking about? Somehow, I'd like to
get it flush with the bottom of the table, so there's no apparent
attachment when looking at it from the sides. Perhaps, if I can
figure out how, making a frame around the "meat" of the table, so it
isn't apparent that sheet metal was used. It would also manage to put
the potentially sharp metal edges safely away. At this point, the
entire table will be constructed, sanded, stained, and painted.
Now the finishing. This table will most likely have a lot of liquid
spilled on it. My thoughts were to put some type of lacquer on first,
then polyurethane, then something to the effect of an automotive
clearcoat. Basically, I want the table to have a deep red stain
(almost burgundy in color) and be very polished and shiny.
I plan on applying a large amount of clear coat coats to the surface
of the table, to give it a very hard, very shiny, very smooth,
surface.
If this doesn't make sense at all, it's probably because I'm a college
student with absolutely no wood, metal, or generally working
background. The table is actually going to be a beer pong table, and
if you don't know what that is, please don't educate yourself because
you'll think I'm even crazier than before.
=========================
Can anyone recommend a type of wood, stain, glues, epoxies, general
materials, and tell me what will and what will not work in my current
plan?
Thanks for the time and help in advance,
-Kevin
Ha, not a troll, sir. Thank you for your response and help.
The metal is to make sure a drunk kid leaning on it doesn't snap it,
while still leaving it pretty thin.
Sorry for not more clearly stating my intentions: The top of the
table is to have an argyle design, allowing the wood to show through
in 2 ranks of diamonds. There will also be a large patch of unpainted
wood visible where a coat of arms will be painted.
the legs I'm talking about are http://www.bigbullbilliards.com/images/products/tablelegs013.jpg
on the left in that picture.
forgive my ignorance, but what is MDF? Also, won't a pour on epoxy
run off the table? or how do you control that?
On Oct 24, 9:54 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Frogtarded" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Ha, not a troll, sir. Thank you for your response and help.
>
> > The metal is to make sure a drunk kid leaning on it doesn't snap it,
> > while still leaving it pretty thin.
>
> I don't think the metal will add all that much strength, expecially for the
> work involved to laminate all of this together
>
> You can get a lot of stgrenght by using a plywood top and making a skirt
> around the sides for structural support. You can always put a third strip
> along the center.
>
> Plywood looks good and a sheet will make two tables. Real wood looks even
> better, requires glue up, clamping, and will cost about 50% more than
> plywood.
>
> In case no one has looked yet, here is a link to beer pong ruleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_pong
>
> > forgive my ignorance, but what is MDF?
>
> Medium density fiberboard. Heavy, modest priced mateial available at any
> home center.
Thanks for the help, Edwin.
My original thoughts on plywood were that it was flimsy, weak, and
would look terrible for what I had in mind. I think I would much
rather attempt to find some real wood, that would look nice
(recommendations?). I'm going for a color scheme of dark red wood
(almost burgundy, I'll probably have to stain?), a darker forest green
and off white for the other diamonds in the argyle, and gold accents.
I'm assuming that most woods will be reliable and stout, so my primary
concern is how the finished product would look as a whole.
also, to clear up some confusion, are you saying I should stick two
pieces together so it's double-layered? MDF was a good recommendation
for strength, but I don't think it would look very nice.
Any other thoughts?
On Oct 25, 6:06 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
> > Hi there, this is my first post (and first wood working project!).
>
> > I'd like to build a table. For simplicities sake, we'll say it's a
> > coffee table, dimensions 2 x 8.
>
> > My plan is to use some sort of engineering epoxy to stick two pieces
> > of sheet metal together, then using either wood glue or epoxy again to
> > encase the now one piece of sheet metal between two thin pieces of
> > wood.
>
> Wood is laminated to metal to create private aircraft interiors. This
> is possible.
>
> > So in recap, I now have a 2 x 8 metal sandwich that's (by layer): Wood
> > -> Metal -> Metal-> Wood.
>
> Why the second layer of metal?
>
>
>
> > After this, I assume, I should sand the pieces of wood, and probably
> > the sides as well. I plan on staining the wood, then painting a
> > design on it.
>
> Still similar to an airplane.
>
> > After the staining/painting process, it'll be time to attach the
> > legs. I do not want straight legs, I want those slightly bowed legs
> > with feet on them...Know what I'm talking about?
>
> Cabriole?
>
> > Somehow, I'd like to
> > get it flush with the bottom of the table, so there's no apparent
> > attachment when looking at it from the sides. Perhaps, if I can
> > figure out how, making a frame around the "meat" of the table, so it
> > isn't apparent that sheet metal was used. It would also manage to put
> > the potentially sharp metal edges safely away. At this point, the
> > entire table will be constructed, sanded, stained, and painted.
>
> I thought you were trying to create a razor thin look. Since you're
> not, maybe you should replace the metal with cabinet grade plywood. The
> plywood can be more esily veneered with your final surface.
>
> > Now the finishing. This table will most likely have a lot of liquid
> > spilled on it. My thoughts were to put some type of lacquer on first,
> > then polyurethane, then something to the effect of an automotive
> > clearcoat. Basically, I want the table to have a deep red stain
> > (almost burgundy in color) and be very polished and shiny.
>
> Stain to your color, and use a polyurethane, tabletop varnish, or "bar
> top finish".
>
>
>
> > I plan on applying a large amount of clear coat coats to the surface
> > of the table, to give it a very hard, very shiny, very smooth,
> > surface.
>
> Bar top finish.
>
> > If this doesn't make sense at all, it's probably because I'm a college
> > student with absolutely no wood, metal, or generally working
> > background. The table is actually going to be a beer pong table, and
> > if you don't know what that is, please don't educate yourself because
> > you'll think I'm even crazier than before.
>
> Beer pong is fun. You'll need this table to be durable, so it won't
> collapse under the passed out chicks. <G>
>
> Skip the metal, use plywood, buy premade legs, use Minwax stains and
> polyurethane finish. Try everything on scrap before you do it to the
> project.
>
> An alternative is to simply find a table at a junk store and make a
> plywood cover that fits over it. You can then decorate the plywood to
> your taste.
>
> Don't forget to post pictures of the finished project, preferably with
> the chicks.
Hey guys, thanks for helping me out.
Barry, I am going for a very thin look, the border I was talking about
would be flush with the top and bottom of the table. Also, to the
question "Why the 2nd layer of metal", my ignorance led me to believe
that two pieces of metal will be stronger than one. :)
Should I paint the argyle and crest designs on after the polyurethane?
also, if the top of the table and the legs are two different types of
wood, would that effect the coloration after staining?
On Oct 25, 12:48 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
>
> > Should I paint the argyle and crest designs on after the polyurethane?
>
> I would seal the stained wood with two coats of _spray_ shellac (Zinnser
> - yellow can), paint on the logos, seal it again with two more coats of
> spray shellac, then polyurethane it. You can brush the poly, but
> brushing shellac is NOT the same as in the spray can, and isn't meant to
> go under polyurethane. The spray shellac will create a barrier coat, to
> protect the stain from your paint, and the paint from the polyurethane.
> Don't skip it. Spray cans apply a rather thin coat, so do two.
>
> Build your polyurethane coats slowly, don't try to build too thick of a
> coat at once. _Lightly_ scuff between coats, to remove dust nibs, with
> 400 grit sandpaper and a sanding block. Wipe the surface with a clean
> cloth dampened with paint thinner right before each polyurethane coat.
>
> Please, try all of this on a scrap before your project.
>
> > also, if the top of the table and the legs are two different types of
> > wood, would that effect the coloration after staining?
>
> That depends on the stain and the wood. Oak is easily obtainable at
> home centers and is probably the easiest wood to stain. Pine, maple,
> and poplar can get pretty blotchy if stained dark. If you stick to a
> "natural" stain, most woods that you would use would probably look fine
> together.
Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned a
pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or is it
different? could you tell me more about those?
On Oct 25, 1:46 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
>
> > Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned a
> > pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or is it
> > different? could you tell me more about those?
>
> The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
>
> <http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
>
> Bring money.
Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
On Oct 25, 3:01 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
>
> > Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
>
> Carefully applied polyurethane.
Using that scuff, wipe, coat method?
On Oct 26, 5:26 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
> > On Oct 25, 1:46 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Frogtarded wrote:
>
> >>> Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned
> >>> a pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or
> >>> is it different? could you tell me more about those?
>
> >> The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
>
> >> <http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
>
> >> Bring money.
>
> > Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
>
> Yeah - buy it here...http://www.uscomposites.com/kk121.html
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Much more affordable, thank you.
Should I just polyurethane the legs and then attach them?
On Oct 26, 4:53 pm, Frogtarded <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 5:26 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Frogtarded wrote:
> > > On Oct 25, 1:46 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Frogtarded wrote:
>
> > >>> Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned
> > >>> a pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or
> > >>> is it different? could you tell me more about those?
>
> > >> The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
>
> > >> <http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
>
> > >> Bring money.
>
> > > Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
>
> > Yeah - buy it here...http://www.uscomposites.com/kk121.html
>
> > --
>
> > dadiOH
> > ____________________________
>
> > dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> > ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> > Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
> Much more affordable, thank you.
>
> Should I just polyurethane the legs and then attach them?
Wait...how am I going to attach legs to this?
On Oct 26, 5:29 pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
> >> Should I just polyurethane the legs and then attach them?
>
> I would
> _____________
>
> > Wait...how am I going to attach legs to this?
>
> You could screw through the top, use hanger bolts (bolt on one end,
> screw on other...bolt end goes into a threaded inset), drill a
> sizeable hole (3/4-1") thru table into leg top and glue in a dowel....
>
> http://www.hangerbolt.com/hanger_bolts.htm
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico
So I'd have to do this before I put the finishing epoxy on?
On Oct 27, 6:39 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frogtarded wrote:
> > On Oct 26, 5:29 pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Frogtarded wrote:
> >>>> Should I just polyurethane the legs and then attach them?
>
> >> I would
> >> _____________
>
> >>> Wait...how am I going to attach legs to this?
>
> >> You could screw through the top, use hanger bolts (bolt on one end,
> >> screw on other...bolt end goes into a threaded inset), drill a
> >> sizeable hole (3/4-1") thru table into leg top and glue in a
> >> dowel....
>
> >>http://www.hangerbolt.com/hanger_bolts.htm
> > So I'd have to do this before I put the finishing epoxy on?
>
> Either that or drill through the epoxy. But after sleeping on it I
> don't think those were very good suggestions. Possibilities but not
> good. Here is a better way...
>
> Glue the legs on. You can't use regular glue as the glued surface on
> the legs is end grain and won't have any strength when glued with
> "woodworker's glue" but will if you use epoxy. Turn the table upside
> down, apply a thick coating to the top of the legs and set in place,
> no clamping is necessary. Let the legs remain there undisturbed for
> at *least* 24 hours...the epoxy will get fairly hard after 12 hours or
> so but not strong enough to take much stress. It takes several days
> to thoroughly cure.
>
> Almost any way of attaching legs is sufficient to carry the weight of
> a table top and things on it. However, lateral force is a different
> thing as the legs act like levers multiplying that force. That means
> the glued on legs would need to be reinforced laterally and there are
> two ways of doing that.
>
> 1. Box in the top of the legs with strips of 3/4"x3/4" wood glued
> both to the legs and table. The strips could be glued with any glue -
> epoxy, woodworkers. All surfaces being glued should be free of any
> finish. The strips don't have to be square shape in cross section,
> they could be quarter round, cove shaped, etc. They could be finished
> to match the legs in which case they'd look like part of the legs or
> to contrast with them.
> If you do this and have glued on the legs with epoxy, make sure
> you remove any epoxy squeeze out around the legs so that the wood
> strips will fit snugly. Remove the squeeze out *before* it sets up
> hard by wiping/scraping off.
>
> 2. Do something similar but with epoxy. Epoxy is fairly viscous
> but still runs. Places that sell it also sell thickeners so that the
> epoxy can be applied to vertical surfaces without running. There are
> numerous thickeners...talc, micro-balloons, powdered wood/sawdust,
> Cab-o-sil. The latter is very fine silica and what I use most.
> To use a thickener, mix it slowly and thoroughly into the
> catalyzed resin. In this case, you'd want it fairly thick. If you
> were using Cab-o-sil it would look like and be about as thick as
> Vaseline.
> One then takes the thickened epoxy and makes fillets around the
> legs, overlapping legs and table by 1/4-1/2". The epoxy can be
> applied with something like a tongue depresser but I prefer to use a
> finger to smooth it.
> Epoxy fillets add a lot of strength but won't look very good; for
> one thing, it is really tough to get them smooth and even without
> sanding them; for another, they will have the color of whatever was
> used to thicken the epoxy (with cab-o-sil, semi-clear) and need to be
> painted to look good. OTOH - depending on how far in you set the
> legs - the fillets may not be normally visible.
> ____________
>
> Some epoxy tips...
>
> It is sticky, messy stuff. The thing that cleans it up is vinegar.
>
> It won't stick to many plastics...I use CoolWhip containers for mixing
> and when dry it just pops right out. Plastic painter's drop cloths
> can be useful to protect areas.
>
> Clear tape (like packaging tape) can be used to protect areas (epoxy
> doesn't stick to it). If I were going to make fillets as above I
> would use tape to demarcate the desired area, apply the epoxy, smooth
> with a finger so it feathers out as thin as possible at tape edge then
> remove the tape either immediately or after the epoxy set up a bit.
>
> Once it sets up. it gets a chemical blush on the surface called "amine
> blush". That has to be removed before applying a finish. You do so
> with water...just wipe off with damp sponge or rag.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico
cool, thanks again for the help. hopefully I'll have the funds to go
buy materials by the end of the week.
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:37:17 -0000, Frogtarded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi there, this is my first post (and first wood working project!).
>
>I'd like to build a table. For simplicities sake, we'll say it's a
>coffee table, dimensions 2 x 8.
>
>My plan is to use some sort of engineering epoxy to stick two pieces
>of sheet metal together, then using either wood glue or epoxy again to
>encase the now one piece of sheet metal between two thin pieces of
>wood.
>
Here's the problem. You have a cross-grain situation. How will the
wood move if it is epoxied? What is the reason for the metal?
>So in recap, I now have a 2 x 8 metal sandwich that's (by layer): Wood
>-> Metal -> Metal-> Wood.
>
>After this, I assume, I should sand the pieces of wood, and probably
>the sides as well. I plan on staining the wood, then painting a
>design on it.
>
>After the staining/painting process, it'll be time to attach the
>legs. I do not want straight legs, I want those slightly bowed legs
>with feet on them...Know what I'm talking about? Somehow, I'd like to
>get it flush with the bottom of the table, so there's no apparent
>attachment when looking at it from the sides. Perhaps, if I can
>figure out how, making a frame around the "meat" of the table, so it
>isn't apparent that sheet metal was used. It would also manage to put
>the potentially sharp metal edges safely away. At this point, the
>entire table will be constructed, sanded, stained, and painted.
Hanger bolts will work, although this is never used with "fine
woodworking" practices.
>
>Now the finishing. This table will most likely have a lot of liquid
>spilled on it. My thoughts were to put some type of lacquer on first,
>then polyurethane, then something to the effect of an automotive
>clearcoat. Basically, I want the table to have a deep red stain
>(almost burgundy in color) and be very polished and shiny.
>
>I plan on applying a large amount of clear coat coats to the surface
>of the table, to give it a very hard, very shiny, very smooth,
>surface.
>
>If this doesn't make sense at all, it's probably because I'm a college
>student with absolutely no wood, metal, or generally working
>background. The table is actually going to be a beer pong table, and
>if you don't know what that is, please don't educate yourself because
>you'll think I'm even crazier than before.
>=========================
>
>Can anyone recommend a type of wood, stain, glues, epoxies, general
>materials, and tell me what will and what will not work in my current
>plan?
>
Why not make the coffee table entirely out of metal?
>Thanks for the time and help in advance,
>
>-Kevin
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:26:13 GMT, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Frogtarded wrote:
>>> On Oct 25, 1:46 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Frogtarded wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else
>>>>> mentioned a pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the
>>>>> polyurethane, or is it different? could you tell me more about
>>>>> those?
>>>>
>>>> The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
>>>>
>>>> Bring money.
>>>
>>> Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
>>
>> Yeah - buy it here...
>> http://www.uscomposites.com/kk121.html
>
>
> Are they comparable products?
I'm a chemist? :) Never used the stuff but I *have* used their
regular epoxy and it is fine. I seem to recall that there are a very
limited number of manufacturers and that everyone else buys from them,
and repackages it.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Frogtarded wrote:
> On Oct 25, 1:46 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Frogtarded wrote:
>>
>>> Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned
>>> a pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or
>>> is it different? could you tell me more about those?
>>
>> The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
>>
>> <http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
>>
>> Bring money.
>
> Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
Yeah - buy it here...
http://www.uscomposites.com/kk121.html
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Frogtarded wrote:
> If this doesn't make sense at all, it's probably because I'm a
> college student with absolutely no wood, metal, or generally working
> background. The table is actually going to be a beer pong table,
> and if you don't know what that is, please don't educate yourself
> because you'll think I'm even crazier than before.
> =========================
>
> Can anyone recommend a type of wood, stain, glues, epoxies, general
> materials, and tell me what will and what will not work in my
> current plan?
1. Get a part time job.
2. Save your money
3. When you have enough $$ saved go to a cabinet shop and pay them to
build it.
PS - the legs you want are cabriole legs.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Frogtarded" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ha, not a troll, sir. Thank you for your response and help.
>
> The metal is to make sure a drunk kid leaning on it doesn't snap it,
> while still leaving it pretty thin.
>
I don't think the metal will add all that much strength, expecially for the
work involved to laminate all of this together
You can get a lot of stgrenght by using a plywood top and making a skirt
around the sides for structural support. You can always put a third strip
along the center.
Plywood looks good and a sheet will make two tables. Real wood looks even
better, requires glue up, clamping, and will cost about 50% more than
plywood.
In case no one has looked yet, here is a link to beer pong rules
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_pong
> forgive my ignorance, but what is MDF?
Medium density fiberboard. Heavy, modest priced mateial available at any
home center.
Frogtarded wrote:
> Hi there, this is my first post (and first wood working project!).
>
> I'd like to build a table. For simplicities sake, we'll say it's a
> coffee table, dimensions 2 x 8.
>
> My plan is to use some sort of engineering epoxy to stick two pieces
> of sheet metal together, then using either wood glue or epoxy again to
> encase the now one piece of sheet metal between two thin pieces of
> wood.
Wood is laminated to metal to create private aircraft interiors. This
is possible.
> So in recap, I now have a 2 x 8 metal sandwich that's (by layer): Wood
> -> Metal -> Metal-> Wood.
Why the second layer of metal?
>
> After this, I assume, I should sand the pieces of wood, and probably
> the sides as well. I plan on staining the wood, then painting a
> design on it.
Still similar to an airplane.
> After the staining/painting process, it'll be time to attach the
> legs. I do not want straight legs, I want those slightly bowed legs
> with feet on them...Know what I'm talking about?
Cabriole?
> Somehow, I'd like to
> get it flush with the bottom of the table, so there's no apparent
> attachment when looking at it from the sides. Perhaps, if I can
> figure out how, making a frame around the "meat" of the table, so it
> isn't apparent that sheet metal was used. It would also manage to put
> the potentially sharp metal edges safely away. At this point, the
> entire table will be constructed, sanded, stained, and painted.
I thought you were trying to create a razor thin look. Since you're
not, maybe you should replace the metal with cabinet grade plywood. The
plywood can be more esily veneered with your final surface.
> Now the finishing. This table will most likely have a lot of liquid
> spilled on it. My thoughts were to put some type of lacquer on first,
> then polyurethane, then something to the effect of an automotive
> clearcoat. Basically, I want the table to have a deep red stain
> (almost burgundy in color) and be very polished and shiny.
Stain to your color, and use a polyurethane, tabletop varnish, or "bar
top finish".
>
> I plan on applying a large amount of clear coat coats to the surface
> of the table, to give it a very hard, very shiny, very smooth,
> surface.
>
Bar top finish.
> If this doesn't make sense at all, it's probably because I'm a college
> student with absolutely no wood, metal, or generally working
> background. The table is actually going to be a beer pong table, and
> if you don't know what that is, please don't educate yourself because
> you'll think I'm even crazier than before.
Beer pong is fun. You'll need this table to be durable, so it won't
collapse under the passed out chicks. <G>
Skip the metal, use plywood, buy premade legs, use Minwax stains and
polyurethane finish. Try everything on scrap before you do it to the
project.
An alternative is to simply find a table at a junk store and make a
plywood cover that fits over it. You can then decorate the plywood to
your taste.
Don't forget to post pictures of the finished project, preferably with
the chicks.
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:21:55 GMT, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>I'm a chemist? :)
I don't know either, so I'm asking you. <G>
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** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Frogtarded wrote:
> On Oct 26, 5:29 pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Frogtarded wrote:
>>>> Should I just polyurethane the legs and then attach them?
>>
>> I would
>> _____________
>>
>>> Wait...how am I going to attach legs to this?
>>
>> You could screw through the top, use hanger bolts (bolt on one end,
>> screw on other...bolt end goes into a threaded inset), drill a
>> sizeable hole (3/4-1") thru table into leg top and glue in a
>> dowel....
>>
>> http://www.hangerbolt.com/hanger_bolts.htm
> So I'd have to do this before I put the finishing epoxy on?
Either that or drill through the epoxy. But after sleeping on it I
don't think those were very good suggestions. Possibilities but not
good. Here is a better way...
Glue the legs on. You can't use regular glue as the glued surface on
the legs is end grain and won't have any strength when glued with
"woodworker's glue" but will if you use epoxy. Turn the table upside
down, apply a thick coating to the top of the legs and set in place,
no clamping is necessary. Let the legs remain there undisturbed for
at *least* 24 hours...the epoxy will get fairly hard after 12 hours or
so but not strong enough to take much stress. It takes several days
to thoroughly cure.
Almost any way of attaching legs is sufficient to carry the weight of
a table top and things on it. However, lateral force is a different
thing as the legs act like levers multiplying that force. That means
the glued on legs would need to be reinforced laterally and there are
two ways of doing that.
1. Box in the top of the legs with strips of 3/4"x3/4" wood glued
both to the legs and table. The strips could be glued with any glue -
epoxy, woodworkers. All surfaces being glued should be free of any
finish. The strips don't have to be square shape in cross section,
they could be quarter round, cove shaped, etc. They could be finished
to match the legs in which case they'd look like part of the legs or
to contrast with them.
If you do this and have glued on the legs with epoxy, make sure
you remove any epoxy squeeze out around the legs so that the wood
strips will fit snugly. Remove the squeeze out *before* it sets up
hard by wiping/scraping off.
2. Do something similar but with epoxy. Epoxy is fairly viscous
but still runs. Places that sell it also sell thickeners so that the
epoxy can be applied to vertical surfaces without running. There are
numerous thickeners...talc, micro-balloons, powdered wood/sawdust,
Cab-o-sil. The latter is very fine silica and what I use most.
To use a thickener, mix it slowly and thoroughly into the
catalyzed resin. In this case, you'd want it fairly thick. If you
were using Cab-o-sil it would look like and be about as thick as
Vaseline.
One then takes the thickened epoxy and makes fillets around the
legs, overlapping legs and table by 1/4-1/2". The epoxy can be
applied with something like a tongue depresser but I prefer to use a
finger to smooth it.
Epoxy fillets add a lot of strength but won't look very good; for
one thing, it is really tough to get them smooth and even without
sanding them; for another, they will have the color of whatever was
used to thicken the epoxy (with cab-o-sil, semi-clear) and need to be
painted to look good. OTOH - depending on how far in you set the
legs - the fillets may not be normally visible.
____________
Some epoxy tips...
It is sticky, messy stuff. The thing that cleans it up is vinegar.
It won't stick to many plastics...I use CoolWhip containers for mixing
and when dry it just pops right out. Plastic painter's drop cloths
can be useful to protect areas.
Clear tape (like packaging tape) can be used to protect areas (epoxy
doesn't stick to it). If I were going to make fillets as above I
would use tape to demarcate the desired area, apply the epoxy, smooth
with a finger so it feathers out as thin as possible at tape edge then
remove the tape either immediately or after the epoxy set up a bit.
Once it sets up. it gets a chemical blush on the surface called "amine
blush". That has to be removed before applying a finish. You do so
with water...just wipe off with damp sponge or rag.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Frogtarded" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> My original thoughts on plywood were that it was flimsy, weak, and
> would look terrible for what I had in mind. I think I would much
> rather attempt to find some real wood, that would look nice
> (recommendations?).
I'm talking about finished plywood, such as cherry, birch, oak, that is
furniture grade, not the stuff used for sheathing in construction. 3/4" is
very stiff.
> I'm going for a color scheme of dark red wood
> (almost burgundy, I'll probably have to stain?), a darker forest green
> and off white for the other diamonds in the argyle, and gold accents.
> I'm assuming that most woods will be reliable and stout, so my primary
> concern is how the finished product would look as a whole.
>
> also, to clear up some confusion, are you saying I should stick two
> pieces together so it's double-layered? MDF was a good recommendation
> for strength, but I don't think it would look very nice.
One piece of plywood, cut to size. Then take either strips of the plywood
or 1 x 3 of regular wood and screw and glue them to the bottom, on edge, for
strength. Like building a bridge, it will be strong and stiff. Take a look
at how many table tops are built with a skirt around them.
MDF is a paint grade material. Smooth and flat, but poor appearance.
Frogtarded <[email protected]> wrote:
: Hi there, this is my first post (and first wood working project!).
: I'd like to build a table. For simplicities sake, we'll say it's a
: coffee table, dimensions 2 x 8.
: My plan is to use some sort of engineering epoxy to stick two pieces
: of sheet metal together, then using either wood glue or epoxy again to
: encase the now one piece of sheet metal between two thin pieces of
: wood.
Why the metal? Unless yoyu need to attach magnets to it, just use plywood and/or
MDF.
: So in recap, I now have a 2 x 8 metal sandwich that's (by layer): Wood
: -> Metal -> Metal-> Wood.
: After this, I assume, I should sand the pieces of wood, and probably
: the sides as well. I plan on staining the wood, then painting a
: design on it.
I'm beginning to think this is a troll. If not ... what's the point of
staining wood, then painting it? Or would the painted bit be a
smaller section?
: After the staining/painting process, it'll be time to attach the
: legs. I do not want straight legs, I want those slightly bowed legs
: with feet on them...Know what I'm talking about?
Nope.
: Now the finishing. This table will most likely have a lot of liquid
: spilled on it. My thoughts were to put some type of lacquer on first,
: then polyurethane, then something to the effect of an automotive
: clearcoat. Basically, I want the table to have a deep red stain
: (almost burgundy in color) and be very polished and shiny.
Use plywood or MDF.
Paint it whatever color you like. Let the paint cure, then use a pour-on
thick epoxy that's made for exactly this purpose (thick, shiny,
liquid-proof coating). Attach the legs of your choice, then you're done.
-- Andy Barss
Frogtarded wrote:
> On Oct 25, 3:01 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Frogtarded wrote:
>>
>>> Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
>> Carefully applied polyurethane.
>
> Using that scuff, wipe, coat method?
>
Yup!
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:26:13 GMT, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Frogtarded wrote:
>> On Oct 25, 1:46 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Frogtarded wrote:
>>>
>>>> Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned
>>>> a pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or
>>>> is it different? could you tell me more about those?
>>>
>>> The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
>>>
>>> <http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
>>>
>>> Bring money.
>>
>> Whoooa. Any other suggestions? ha.
>
>Yeah - buy it here...
>http://www.uscomposites.com/kk121.html
Are they comparable products?
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
Frogtarded wrote:
>
>
> Earlier you mentioned a bartop finish, and someone else mentioned a
> pour on epoxy. Would those be considered the polyurethane, or is it
> different? could you tell me more about those?
The one I'm familiar with is a two-part resin, which is an epoxy:
<http://www.bartopepoxy.com/?gclid=CMfZu6zaqo8CFQpjHgodEW4pKA>
Bring money.
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:32:21 -0700, Frogtarded
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 24, 9:54 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Frogtarded" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > Ha, not a troll, sir. Thank you for your response and help.
>>
>> > The metal is to make sure a drunk kid leaning on it doesn't snap it,
>> > while still leaving it pretty thin.
>>
>> I don't think the metal will add all that much strength, expecially for the
>> work involved to laminate all of this together
>>
>> You can get a lot of stgrenght by using a plywood top and making a skirt
>> around the sides for structural support. You can always put a third strip
>> along the center.
>>
>> Plywood looks good and a sheet will make two tables. Real wood looks even
>> better, requires glue up, clamping, and will cost about 50% more than
>> plywood.
>>
>> In case no one has looked yet, here is a link to beer pong ruleshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_pong
>>
>> > forgive my ignorance, but what is MDF?
>>
>> Medium density fiberboard. Heavy, modest priced mateial available at any
>> home center.
>
>Thanks for the help, Edwin.
>
>My original thoughts on plywood were that it was flimsy, weak, and
>would look terrible for what I had in mind. I think I would much
>rather attempt to find some real wood, that would look nice
>(recommendations?). I'm going for a color scheme of dark red wood
>(almost burgundy, I'll probably have to stain?), a darker forest green
>and off white for the other diamonds in the argyle, and gold accents.
>I'm assuming that most woods will be reliable and stout, so my primary
>concern is how the finished product would look as a whole.
>
>also, to clear up some confusion, are you saying I should stick two
>pieces together so it's double-layered? MDF was a good recommendation
>for strength, but I don't think it would look very nice.
>
>Any other thoughts?
>
No, MDF is not recommended for strength. Solid wood or ply is
stronger. For more strength the legs should not be more than 3 or 4
feet apart, or you can have 5 or 6 legs.
OK, here's an even simpler idea.
Go to the nearest cheap lumber yard.
Buy a 2' x 6'-8" hollow core door, cheapest wood, probably luan. Buy a
sheet of 1/4" plywood, or plywood paneling (already finished!!!) that you
like. Glue A to B.
Or even, buy a better door with the wood that you like, and forget the
paneling.
Figure out something for the edges--either some wood trim, left over
paneling.
Put your choice of legs on each corner.
Paint and stain the top in a way that makes your heart pitti-pat. Put lots
of polyurethane varnish on top of the paint.
This will be strong enuf to hold lots of beer, easy to build, and cheap enuf
that you can leave it for your landlord to worry about when you move.
Enjoy
Old Guy
I was a poor college student once.....now I'm just poor.
"Frogtarded" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi there, this is my first post (and first wood working project!).
>
> I'd like to build a table. For simplicities sake, we'll say it's a
> coffee table, dimensions 2 x 8.
>
> My plan is to use some sort of engineering epoxy to stick two pieces
> of sheet metal together, then using either wood glue or epoxy again to
> encase the now one piece of sheet metal between two thin pieces of
> wood.
>
> So in recap, I now have a 2 x 8 metal sandwich that's (by layer): Wood
> -> Metal -> Metal-> Wood.
>
> After this, I assume, I should sand the pieces of wood, and probably
> the sides as well. I plan on staining the wood, then painting a
> design on it.
>
> After the staining/painting process, it'll be time to attach the
> legs. I do not want straight legs, I want those slightly bowed legs
> with feet on them...Know what I'm talking about? Somehow, I'd like to
> get it flush with the bottom of the table, so there's no apparent
> attachment when looking at it from the sides. Perhaps, if I can
> figure out how, making a frame around the "meat" of the table, so it
> isn't apparent that sheet metal was used. It would also manage to put
> the potentially sharp metal edges safely away. At this point, the
> entire table will be constructed, sanded, stained, and painted.
>
> Now the finishing. This table will most likely have a lot of liquid
> spilled on it. My thoughts were to put some type of lacquer on first,
> then polyurethane, then something to the effect of an automotive
> clearcoat. Basically, I want the table to have a deep red stain
> (almost burgundy in color) and be very polished and shiny.
>
> I plan on applying a large amount of clear coat coats to the surface
> of the table, to give it a very hard, very shiny, very smooth,
> surface.
>
> If this doesn't make sense at all, it's probably because I'm a college
> student with absolutely no wood, metal, or generally working
> background. The table is actually going to be a beer pong table, and
> if you don't know what that is, please don't educate yourself because
> you'll think I'm even crazier than before.
> =========================
>
> Can anyone recommend a type of wood, stain, glues, epoxies, general
> materials, and tell me what will and what will not work in my current
> plan?
>
> Thanks for the time and help in advance,
>
> -Kevin
>
Frogtarded wrote:
>
> Should I paint the argyle and crest designs on after the polyurethane?
I would seal the stained wood with two coats of _spray_ shellac (Zinnser
- yellow can), paint on the logos, seal it again with two more coats of
spray shellac, then polyurethane it. You can brush the poly, but
brushing shellac is NOT the same as in the spray can, and isn't meant to
go under polyurethane. The spray shellac will create a barrier coat, to
protect the stain from your paint, and the paint from the polyurethane.
Don't skip it. Spray cans apply a rather thin coat, so do two.
Build your polyurethane coats slowly, don't try to build too thick of a
coat at once. _Lightly_ scuff between coats, to remove dust nibs, with
400 grit sandpaper and a sanding block. Wipe the surface with a clean
cloth dampened with paint thinner right before each polyurethane coat.
Please, try all of this on a scrap before your project.
> also, if the top of the table and the legs are two different types of
> wood, would that effect the coloration after staining?
That depends on the stain and the wood. Oak is easily obtainable at
home centers and is probably the easiest wood to stain. Pine, maple,
and poplar can get pretty blotchy if stained dark. If you stick to a
"natural" stain, most woods that you would use would probably look fine
together.
Frogtarded wrote:
>> Should I just polyurethane the legs and then attach them?
I would
_____________
> Wait...how am I going to attach legs to this?
You could screw through the top, use hanger bolts (bolt on one end,
screw on other...bolt end goes into a threaded inset), drill a
sizeable hole (3/4-1") thru table into leg top and glue in a dowel....
http://www.hangerbolt.com/hanger_bolts.htm
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico