Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut off
and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for the
tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
territory.
EJ
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:56:59 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Somewhere on the web is a photo of a tree with a bicycle embedded in it.
>Stuff like that happens all the time.
http://www.celebratebig.com/roadsideattractions/bicycletree.htm
My brother bought a tree from Dover Tenn. area that had stood at the edge of
a civil war battle site, after having it sawn into boards, one 10' board had
20+ lead bullets in it. Most of the boards had at least one bullet in them.
At least we know what they were from, I wonder what your shooter was after,
maybe a bear for supper, its fun to speculate. If you haven't cut out the
ball yet why not use it in the top of a small box, makes an unusual looking
project.
"Eric Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut
off
> and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for
the
> tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
> EJ
>
>
Civil War rifle were often .68 cal. I know Sharps made a .50 cal. gun, and
the Penn. and Ky. long rifles were .45 and .50 cal. weapons. Anything above
.50 cal. seemed to shoot a miniball or "bullet" shaped round rather then a
ball as a normal load, I have seen a ton of round balls for the .68 cal
weapons though that were dug up at battle grounds.
>
> Dunno _what_ vague memories I'm dredging this up from, but I seem to
recall
> that there was a buffalo gun (Sharps, maybe??) that used a .58 cal round.
>
>
>
>
> Some big 'elephant guns' used rounds that were well over 1" dia.
"T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Sun, Jan 18, 2004, 10:59am (EST-1) [email protected]
(Sweet Sawdust) says:
Civil War rifle were often .68 cal. <snip>
I'd have to look it up now, but there were a variety of .58 caliber
guns made. And, about every other calber.
I did and there was a manufactured .58 cal weapon used in the civil
war, the Zoave rifle was .68 cal. and used a miniball instead of a round
ball. The books I have on the Civil War refer to the .68 cal as being a
standard round for both the north and the south, at the museums and from the
collectors there seem to have been a lot of nonstandard caliber weapons in
use at that time at least in this area. I have not found the reload rates
for troops in the Civil War but I understand for the American War for
Independence an American Rifleman was expected to load and fire 13 rounds in
one minute from a smooth bore musket. I don't think I would like to try
that myself even under Ideal conditions, but it may explain why there were a
lot of misfires in combat, and why they have found weapons of that period
with several loads in the barrel.
Sun, Jan 18, 2004, 11:11pm (EST-1) [email protected]
(Sweet=A0Sawdust) says:
I did and there was a manufactured .58 cal weapon used in the civil war
<snip> I have not found the reload rates for troops in the Civil War but
I understand for the American War for Independence an American Rifleman
was expected to load and fire 13 rounds in one minute from a smooth bore
musket. I don't think I would like to try that myself even under Ideal
conditions, but it may explain why there were a lot of misfires in
combat, and why they have found weapons of that period with several
loads in the barrel.
There are records of a variety of non-standard weapons used also,
even a few flintlocks, privately owned.
I seem to recall a reloading rate of 16 rounds per minute. The
Minie ball was a loose fit in the bore, so it went down quickly, and
easily. Then a caspper (holder for the percussion caps) was usually
used, making it it a very quick operation.
Then, of course, some troops got rattled, and either neglected to
pull the trigger, or to cap the rifle, and reloaded, one load on top of
another.
To bring it back on wood, for a second, the Smithsonian has a tree
trunk, maybe 2 foot thru, that was cut down in a battle by rifle fire.
That's wasn't too uncommon tho, in the larger battles. The Crater
Museum at Petersburg, VA, even has some balls that hit each other in
flight. One pair hit perfectly centered, and it looks likt one droped
on a mirror and splattered, they hit so perfectly.
To dampen the party, the Minie ball was invented by a Captain
Minie, from, guess where - France. The earlier versions used clay or
iron in the base, to expend them into the barrel lands. Later versions
don't use helpers, and it was found the powder blast was enough to
expend the base.
And, then there are the sniper rifles. Complex to load, often a
two-part bullet, telescopic sights, and dreadfully accurate, in the
hands of a good shot.
One distant relative was incarcarated in the northern prison (can't
remember the name just now), and one in Andersonville.
JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 18 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
Sun, Jan 18, 2004, 10:59am (EST-1) [email protected]
(Sweet=A0Sawdust) says:
Civil War rifle were often .68 cal. <snip>
I'd have to look it up now, but there were a variety of .58 caliber
guns made. And, about every other calber.
When a muzzleloader barrel got "shot out", it was often rebored, to
a larger caliber. Left smooth, for a musket, or shotgun; or rifled, for
a rifle. Then, for the rifle, a new bullet mold was made, in the
appropriate size - which could be any caliber - ofen the same for a
smooth bore, if one ball was to be used. If the barrel walls were thick
enough, an original .32 caliber, could, conceivably, eventually wind up
as a .58 caliber, or even larger, or anywhere in between. Would make
for a heavy rifle tho. The early model military "rifled muskets", were
converted smoothbore muskets, bored out, and relined with a rifled
barrel liner, instead of being made as a rifled arm from the start.
Accuracy, and range, were increased greatly, over a smooth bore musket,
with the Minie ball. Loading speed was much faster than rifles of the
time, because the Minie ball was a loose fit in the barrel, and was
easily loaded. The Minie ball has a hollow base, with relatively thin
wall, and those expend out to the rifling when fired, making them
accurate, and, because they seal against the gas, the range is greater.
A major firearm breakthrough, at the time. I stuck that in, for people
who didn't know. I used to be a huge Civil War, military history, and
firearms, fan.
Barrels weren't actually "shot out". The sulfer in the powder, with
the mosture in the air, combine to create sulferic acid. If the barrel
wasn't cleaned thoroughtly, withi a short time, after shooting, this
would tend to eat away at the barrel. With a non-corrosive power, lead
bullets wouldn't "shoot out" a barrel.
Oh yeah, in case anyone thinks about experimenting, and using
smokless, non-corrosive, powder in a muzzleloader, don't. Smokless
powder in muzzleloaders creates excessive pressure, and tends to make
them blow up. Very dangerous, very stupid.
JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
What I haven't seen asked yet is, why did a lead ball ruin a band? It
should have cut it easily.
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
"Eric Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut
off
> and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for
the
> tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
> EJ
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Eric Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
>lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut off
>and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for the
>tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
>loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
>it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
>territory.
Dunno _what_ vague memories I'm dredging this up from, but I seem to recall
that there was a buffalo gun (Sharps, maybe??) that used a .58 cal round.
Some big 'elephant guns' used rounds that were well over 1" dia.
Greetings and Salutations.
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:30:36 GMT, "Eric Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
>lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut off
>and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for the
>tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
>loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
>it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
>territory.
>
>EJ
>
>
They do show up. A friend of mine and I were cutting rounds
for turning bowls out of, I believe, a maple tree trunk a bit ago.
I was bracing it, and was interested to see what looked like curls
of metal showing up on the surface. When the piece fell away, indeed,
there was a nice, round dot of lead in the wood. It was a bit newer
stock, though.
The good news is that it is pretty unlikely the blade is
damaged...although it is possible that there was something hard
enough in the shot to require that it be re-sharpened.
If you have a Dremel or some other rotary tool, it would
only take half an hour or so...
Regards
Dave Mundt
C wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:30:36 +0000, Eric Johnson wrote:
>
> > Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> > lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut off
> > and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for the
> > tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> > loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> > it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> > territory.
> >
> > EJ
>
> On a dig in BWCA (Boundary Water Canoe Area) we were told how a musket
> belonging to voyageurs had been found nearly 20' up a tree. Apparently it
> was hung on a branch and forgotten. The rifle went upward with the tree.
>
> Guess it pays to look up once in a while.
Must have had a poorly educated guide. Branches down rise
as the tree grows. A rifle hung on a branch 6 feet above
the ground would still be about 6 feet above the ground
however old the tree grows. Your guide could have made it
much more dramatic by saying the guy climbed the tree and
went to sleep and fell out and died.
Interesting find. But your math may be misleading. Penetration upon impact
would have played a big part, probably making it not as long ago as you
think.
--
********
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
"Eric Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut
off
> and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for
the
> tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
> EJ
>
>
Fri, Jan 16, 2004, 11:31pm (EST+5) [email protected]
(Pounds=A0on=A0Wood) says:
<snip> Penetration upon impact would have played a big part, <snip>
However, penetration would depend on powder charge size, bullet
type, bullet size, bullet weight, bullet fit in the barrel, barrel
length, powder quality, distance from the tree when fired. So,
impossible to say.
JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
"mel" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> My dad use to run a door shop and had uncovered a lead ball in some
> red oak when planing. It does set the mind to wondering doesn't it?
> Target practice, a missed shot intended to bring home food, exchange
> between enemies?? Never know....
>
>
>
This may be apocryphal, but I've heard of bottles being found in wood.
Seems some guy put his bottle in a tree crotch, time passes, and voila! a
blade-killer.
--
John Snow
"If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be here"
Oh I know like I said pretty wild ass on the guess part. I'm not much of a
gun guy so I don't even really know when cap and ball guns went by the way
side. I can tell you as the tape measures it was about 22" deep. and about
8' out from the center. As the Sycamore grows thats got some time behind it.
EJ
Sat, Jan 17, 2004, 3:39am (EST+5) [email protected]
(Eric=A0Johnson) says:
<snip> I don't even really know when cap and ball guns went by the way
side. <snip>
In some parts of the country they never did. The Jamestown, TN,
area had beef shoots up until at least the 1940s, using muzzleloaders.
And, in the last 30-40 years or so, they've made a comeback.
JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 15 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
On 16 Jan 2004 21:26:44 GMT, you wrote:
>
>This may be apocryphal, but I've heard of bottles being found in wood.
>Seems some guy put his bottle in a tree crotch, time passes, and voila! a
>blade-killer.
I was sawing down a pine tree one time for a lady, and hit
'something' that ruined the chain blade...
turned out it was a pop bottle that someone had dropped into the
hollow center some years back... the glass was fine, but the
blade was beyond hope...it turned out to be about a 1950's
vintage bottle...
--Shiva--
I love stories like that. I sure hope you can use the "hole" in the wood and
perhaps the ball itself in a piece.
Good luck
Rob
--
Remove CC for email and please visit our web site:
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"Eric Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut
off
> and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for
the
> tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
> EJ
>
>
Eric Johnson wrote:
> ball and it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW
> Wisconsin territory.
That's pretty cool!
I can't top that at all. Closest I've come is unrelated to woodworking.
While digging in one of Mom's flower beds, I found a Minié ball that looks
like it had never been fired. Just no telling what the story is. Anything
from some Civil War solider dropped it in the heat of battle to somebody
bought it at a gift shop in 1973 and dropped it.
It's still sort of cool no matter what. It's white, and I think it had
definitely been in the ground since the century before last, no matter how
it got there.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Eric Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
Kind'a cool, putting hands on real history like that. Had a similar
experience when I got lucky enough to do some travelling in Europe. Found
it thrilling to touch / see things hundreds of years old.
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:30:36 +0000, Eric Johnson wrote:
> Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut off
> and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for the
> tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
> EJ
Actually, Wisconsin became a state in 1848.
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:30:36 +0000, Eric Johnson wrote:
> Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be a
> lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut off
> and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for the
> tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW Wisconsin
> territory.
>
> EJ
On a dig in BWCA (Boundary Water Canoe Area) we were told how a musket
belonging to voyageurs had been found nearly 20' up a tree. Apparently it
was hung on a branch and forgotten. The rifle went upward with the tree.
Guess it pays to look up once in a while.
Hitch wrote:
> This may be apocryphal, but I've heard of bottles being found in wood.
> Seems some guy put his bottle in a tree crotch, time passes, and voila! a
> blade-killer.
Somewhere on the web is a photo of a tree with a bicycle embedded in it.
Stuff like that happens all the time.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Party Pooper!
"Pounds on Wood" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Interesting find. But your math may be misleading. Penetration upon
impact
> would have played a big part, probably making it not as long ago as you
> think.
>
> --
> ********
> Bill Pounds
> http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop
> "Eric Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Resawing sycamore I hit something hidden in the stock, turned out to be
a
> > lead ball between 1/2 and 3/4 dia. went back out to the waste I had cut
> off
> > and very unscientifically counted/estimated the growth rings at 172 for
> the
> > tree and the ball was about 20- 30 rings out from the center. I hated to
> > loose a band but is an interesting thought wondering about that ball and
> > it's origin, circa 1850's in what would have been a very wild SW
Wisconsin
> > territory.
> >
> > EJ
> >
> >
>
>
Pounds on Wood wrote:
> Interesting find. But your math may be misleading. Penetration upon impact
> would have played a big part, probably making it not as long ago as you
> think.
>
good point, but there might be some distress in the wood that had been
punched through and then none at all, revealing a better guestimation of
when it happened.