Posting this here in case we have a plastic guru incognito...
I have a customer who bought a machine back in '05. Since day #1, they have
been trilling this material they call "Torlon PEI" with a. 0.029" drill at
around 10,000 RPM
The material is 3/8" thick and they have no problems making the hole itself.
I thought they would have to peck drill it, but apparently not...
The drill rapids up to the surface, takes a controlled feed rate from 1/16"
prior to the end of stroke (clean through) and retracts at rapid speed.
Much like a CNC would but with a simple, but highly controllable hydraulic
feed control doing the dirty work.
Now that every penny counts more, they found that the process leaves a burr
on the product that they have been removing since day #1 by hand. They want
to try and drill without getting that burr..
Here's the kicker... The burr is at the entry side, not the break through
side...
My first thought was that they were controlling the feed rate too late and
that the drill was entering the material fast, then slowing down and
completing the stroke. They claim that is not the case and that the feed is
100% controlled from entry to breakthrough. They also claim that the burr
shows up when entry happens and not during the process.
Anyone have any tips, thoughts or misc. ramblings on what might be causing
the problem?
RPM or other suggestions, thoughts? Etc... Can't really go above around
11-12,000 RPM on this application due to machine limitations.
My next suggestion to them was to try and get a small countersink bit but
they are using a drill bushing to make sure accuracy is held very tight.
Can't use a drill bushing in that case...
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
> I'm not a plastic guru (incognito or otherwise) but I solved that problem
> by switching to a (carbide) lipped brad-point bit.
Do they make carbide tipped, brad point bits at the 0.029" size?
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
> Can they mount a small microplane type surface to the bushing and
> offset the bushing by the depth of the microplane?
I think I understand what you are saying... However, the bushing guides the
drill. It doesn't spin.
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
> I'm not a guru of anything but it sounds to me like the
> plastic is melting. The entry point bears the brunt because
> the drill bit is in contact with it the longest. I have no
> clue what they're trying to do but 10k rpm sounds like a lot
> for any drill. In fact I have never encountered a drill rated
> for that speed. Never looked but if I had seen something like
> that I would likely have noticed.
See: http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm
We don't show any smaller than 1/16" hole size, but the math can be done /
estimated, etc.
CLIP
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
On Aug 19, 3:50 pm, "Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Posting this here in case we have a plastic guru incognito...
>
> I have a customer who bought a machine back in '05. Since day #1, they have
> been trilling this material they call "Torlon PEI" with a. 0.029" drill at
> around 10,000 RPM
>
> The material is 3/8" thick and they have no problems making the hole itself.
> I thought they would have to peck drill it, but apparently not...
>
> The drill rapids up to the surface, takes a controlled feed rate from 1/16"
> prior to the end of stroke (clean through) and retracts at rapid speed.
> Much like a CNC would but with a simple, but highly controllable hydraulic
> feed control doing the dirty work.
>
> Now that every penny counts more, they found that the process leaves a burr
> on the product that they have been removing since day #1 by hand. They want
> to try and drill without getting that burr..
>
> Here's the kicker... The burr is at the entry side, not the break through
> side...
>
> My first thought was that they were controlling the feed rate too late and
> that the drill was entering the material fast, then slowing down and
> completing the stroke. They claim that is not the case and that the feed is
> 100% controlled from entry to breakthrough. They also claim that the burr
> shows up when entry happens and not during the process.
>
> Anyone have any tips, thoughts or misc. ramblings on what might be causing
> the problem?
>
> RPM or other suggestions, thoughts? Etc... Can't really go above around
> 11-12,000 RPM on this application due to machine limitations.
>
> My next suggestion to them was to try and get a small countersink bit but
> they are using a drill bushing to make sure accuracy is held very tight.
> Can't use a drill bushing in that case...
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
>
> V8013-R
>
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
Can they mount a small microplane type surface to the bushing and
offset the bushing by the depth of the microplane?
-Nathan
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
> Posting this here in case we have a plastic guru incognito...
> Now that every penny counts more, they found that the process leaves a burr
> on the product that they have been removing since day #1 by hand. They want
> to try and drill without getting that burr..
>
> Here's the kicker... The burr is at the entry side, not the break through
> side...
I'm not a plastic guru (incognito or otherwise) but I solved that
problem by switching to a (carbide) lipped brad-point bit.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> I'm not a plastic guru (incognito or otherwise) but I solved that problem
>> by switching to a (carbide) lipped brad-point bit.
>
> Do they make carbide tipped, brad point bits at the 0.029" size?
You're closer to the sources than I am, and I did warn that I'm not a
guru. :-)
My understanding is that with the right grinding setup it's possible to
re-grind the business-end of an ordinary twist drill into that
configuration. I'll guess that it might be possible with a carbide end
mill as well.
The Lee Valley catalog used to have a decent photo of the end of a
lipped brad-point bit tip - which might be a decent guide for a shop
with precision grinding capability. I haven't received a catalog for
long enough to know if the photo is still there, but my recollection is
that it didn't look like rocket surgery.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Plexi drill mandatory with 82 degree negative rake. Speed sounds
excessive but must be acceptable. Would press drill bushing all the
way through its substrate to entry surface of work.
Templet must be clamped, of course. Change drill often. I would not
expext hss to last long at these speeds.
Routs & drills all day: http://www.patwarner.com
***************************************************************************=
**
On Aug 19, 12:50=A0pm, "Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Posting this here in case we have a plastic guru incognito...
>
> I have a customer who bought a machine back in '05. =A0Since day #1, they=
have
> been trilling this material they call "Torlon PEI" with a. 0.029" drill a=
t
> around 10,000 RPM
>
> The material is 3/8" thick and they have no problems making the hole itse=
lf.
> I thought they would have to peck drill it, but apparently not...
>
> The drill rapids up to the surface, takes a controlled feed rate from 1/1=
6"
> prior to the end of stroke (clean through) and retracts at rapid speed.
> Much like a CNC would but with a simple, but highly controllable hydrauli=
c
> feed control doing the dirty work.
>
> Now that every penny counts more, they found that the process leaves a bu=
rr
> on the product that they have been removing since day #1 by hand. =A0They=
want
> to try and drill without getting that burr..
>
> Here's the kicker... =A0The burr is at the entry side, not the break thro=
ugh
> side...
>
> My first thought was that they were controlling the feed rate too late an=
d
> that the drill was entering the material fast, then slowing down and
> completing the stroke. =A0They claim that is not the case and that the fe=
ed is
> 100% controlled from entry to breakthrough. =A0They also claim that the b=
urr
> shows up when entry happens and not during the process.
>
> Anyone have any tips, thoughts or misc. ramblings on what might be causin=
g
> the problem?
>
> RPM or other suggestions, thoughts? =A0Etc... =A0Can't really go above ar=
ound
> 11-12,000 RPM on this application due to machine limitations.
>
> My next suggestion to them was to try and get a small countersink bit but
> they are using a drill bushing to make sure accuracy is held very tight.
> Can't use a drill bushing in that case...
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
>
> V8013-R
>
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>Plexi drill mandatory with 82 degree negative rake. Speed sounds
>excessive but must be acceptable. Would press drill bushing all the
>way through its substrate to entry surface of work.
>Templet must be clamped, of course. Change drill often. I would not
>expext hss to last long at these speeds.
>
>Routs & drills all day: http://www.patwarner.com
Speed should be okay, if not a bit slow IMHO.
See: http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm
We don't show any smaller than 1/16" hole size, but the math can be done /
estimated, etc.
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>>> I'm not a plastic guru (incognito or otherwise) but I solved that
>>> problem by switching to a (carbide) lipped brad-point bit.
>>
>> Do they make carbide tipped, brad point bits at the 0.029" size?
>
> You're closer to the sources than I am, and I did warn that I'm not a
> guru. :-)
>
> My understanding is that with the right grinding setup it's possible to
> re-grind the business-end of an ordinary twist drill into that
> configuration. I'll guess that it might be possible with a carbide end
> mill as well.
>
> The Lee Valley catalog used to have a decent photo of the end of a lipped
> brad-point bit tip - which might be a decent guide for a shop with
> precision grinding capability. I haven't received a catalog for long
> enough to know if the photo is still there, but my recollection is that it
> didn't look like rocket surgery.
First, I didn't mean my question as a flame so if it came across as one,
please forgive me...
Second... Someone else suggested almost the same idea... I'll provide the
information to the customer and let *them* try to find the tooling. :)
I know that sounds like bad business, but one thing is clear when I sell a
tool... I sell the drill, but there are sooooo many variables on the
tooling that I usually shy away from all but the most basic advice unless I
have hands on experience.
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
V8013-R
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Posting this here in case we have a plastic guru
> incognito...
>
> I have a customer who bought a machine back in '05. Since
> day #1, they have been trilling this material they call
> "Torlon PEI" with a. 0.029" drill at around 10,000 RPM
>
> The material is 3/8" thick and they have no problems making
> the hole itself. I thought they would have to peck drill
> it, but apparently not...
>
> The drill rapids up to the surface, takes a controlled feed
> rate from 1/16" prior to the end of stroke (clean through)
> and retracts at rapid speed. Much like a CNC would but with
> a simple, but highly controllable hydraulic feed control
> doing the dirty work.
>
> Now that every penny counts more, they found that the
> process leaves a burr on the product that they have been
> removing since day #1 by hand. They want to try and drill
> without getting that burr..
>
> Here's the kicker... The burr is at the entry side, not
> the break through side...
>
> My first thought was that they were controlling the feed
> rate too late and that the drill was entering the material
> fast, then slowing down and completing the stroke. They
> claim that is not the case and that the feed is 100%
> controlled from entry to breakthrough. They also claim
> that the burr shows up when entry happens and not during
> the process.
>
> Anyone have any tips, thoughts or misc. ramblings on what
> might be causing the problem?
>
> RPM or other suggestions, thoughts? Etc... Can't really
> go above around 11-12,000 RPM on this application due to
> machine limitations.
>
> My next suggestion to them was to try and get a small
> countersink bit but they are using a drill bushing to make
> sure accuracy is held very tight. Can't use a drill bushing
> in that case...
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
>
> V8013-R
>
>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
I'm not a guru of anything but it sounds to me like the
plastic is melting. The entry point bears the brunt because
the drill bit is in contact with it the longest. I have no
clue what they're trying to do but 10k rpm sounds like a lot
for any drill. In fact I have never encountered a drill rated
for that speed. Never looked but if I had seen something like
that I would likely have noticed.
Something with a shank smaller than the hole would solve the
problem if my guess is even remotely close.
Larry
It sounds as though the bit is mushrooming the soft material as it enters.
Tell them to try a tapered bit.
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Posting this here in case we have a plastic guru incognito...
>
> I have a customer who bought a machine back in '05. Since day #1, they
> have been trilling this material they call "Torlon PEI" with a. 0.029"
> drill at around 10,000 RPM
>
> The material is 3/8" thick and they have no problems making the hole
> itself. I thought they would have to peck drill it, but apparently not...
>
> The drill rapids up to the surface, takes a controlled feed rate from
> 1/16" prior to the end of stroke (clean through) and retracts at rapid
> speed. Much like a CNC would but with a simple, but highly controllable
> hydraulic feed control doing the dirty work.
>
> Now that every penny counts more, they found that the process leaves a
> burr on the product that they have been removing since day #1 by hand.
> They want to try and drill without getting that burr..
>
> Here's the kicker... The burr is at the entry side, not the break through
> side...
>
> My first thought was that they were controlling the feed rate too late and
> that the drill was entering the material fast, then slowing down and
> completing the stroke. They claim that is not the case and that the feed
> is 100% controlled from entry to breakthrough. They also claim that the
> burr shows up when entry happens and not during the process.
>
> Anyone have any tips, thoughts or misc. ramblings on what might be causing
> the problem?
>
> RPM or other suggestions, thoughts? Etc... Can't really go above around
> 11-12,000 RPM on this application due to machine limitations.
>
> My next suggestion to them was to try and get a small countersink bit but
> they are using a drill bushing to make sure accuracy is held very tight.
> Can't use a drill bushing in that case...
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
>
> V8013-R
>
>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **