I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some 'good'
screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor furniture? Black
oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
Confused...
--
Brian
www.garagewoodworks.com
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
Desiderius Erasmus
On Jun 16, 9:00 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Glen wrote:
> > Should I assume, then, that the toy contracts specified lead paint,
> > and the dog food components specified ethelene glycol?
>
> Did the contract say "no lead paint"? Did it say "no ethylene
> glycol"?
Whereas it might be true that the contract was vague
on the paint I don't think that the spec for dog food included
ethylene glycol, nor should one assume a need to specifically
bar poison in a per food contract.
However it is not unlikely that each contract specified
certain standards, such as thos promulgated by
the ASTM or the CPSC, for each.
--
FF
'
"Chiefwoodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bb1ee5e8-706b-44bf-bc34-734b6a7b906d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Garage_Woodworks
There was a very good article in either Popular Woodworking or Fine
Woodworking last month on just this topic. I am not near my magazines
right now so I can't say which. Maybe another reader can.
Joe....
Website: www.srww.com
Blog: www.srww.com/blog
On Jun 15, 8:30 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Garage_Woodworks wrote:
> > I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some
> > 'good' screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor
> > furniture? Black oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
>
> Depends on the "look" you want. All the platings other than
> galvanizing are for appearance mostly.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
When I have a need for metal screws I use plated deck screws for indoors and
outdoors works. The source or procurement for me is at Home Hardware where
I buy them by the pound.
I also use SS screws for all boat work.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
<SNIP of very helpful info>
> assortments offer a pretty good value and you get a pretty good sampling
> of common sizes. I store these screws in 9 steel parts bin drawers.
> Screws in larger quantities become heavy of a container and these steel
> drawers allow dividers to separate different length screws.
>
Thank you! I ordered an assortment (#8 black oxide) last night. I get 100
each of 3/4" through 2-1/2".
They state on their web page that the coated screws have the same strength
as the uncoated. I think I am use to the black oxide from using dry wall
screws for so long so I went with those.
On Jun 15, 7:01 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "B A R R Y" wrote:
>
> > Forget presetting. I really like Stainless Steel in cedar. This
> > guy is local to me:
>
> I'm with you.
>
> Unless it is decorative, where brass/bronxe are required,
That deserves a cheer! ;)
R
Garage_Woodworks wrote:
> I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some 'good'
> screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor furniture? Black
> oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
>
> Confused...
>
For general use, I use their dry lube square drive. Plus brass plated
for cabinet hinges.
j4
On Jun 16, 8:28 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> You should assume that the company that gave the specifications did not
> indicate all information pertinent for the manufacture of the product.
> Specs probably called for "paint" not the type of paint and or they did not
> indicate which filler to use in the dog food, although I would believe that
> may have been an actual mistake like the bottled drinking water from France
> mistakenly having Benzene in it.
Benzene is a natural contaminant of Vichy water.
--
FF
"Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some 'good'
>screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor furniture? Black
>oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
>
> Confused...
>
> --
> Brian
> www.garagewoodworks.com
>
> "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
> Desiderius Erasmus
>
>
Unless you have a very specific application, the common unplanted dry lube
will work fine. These are probably 10 times more resistant to snapping than
dry wall screws. I have used dry lubed screws out doors with only a hint of
discoloration after 15 years. This is not to say that you should use them
out doors but about 15 years ago I used them along the rail road ties
landscaping to string Christmas lights. They are still there and look fine.
Other choices work better for marine applications and or when aesthetics
come into play. Typically the dry lubed if not visible will be plenty
strong.
I use at least a #8 for typical furniture and #10 for HD furniture
applications that may carry some excess weight like table leg bracing.
Typically flat head works well with counter sunk holes, if exposed and on
top of the flat surface a pan head works out well.
For about 25 years I have been using these dry lubed screws on all
applications for indoor use regardless of wood. I built an oak desk about
22 years ago and have relocated it 3 times. To get through the doors it has
to be partially disassembled, no corrosion has ever been evident when
combining steel screws and oak. That said however if you use "SOAP" as a
lubricant you will eventually have a reaction as soap contains water. Use a
wax to lube your screws and you should have no problems.
And needless to say, go with the square drive and or combo head and buy an
assortment of square drive bits. I prefer 2" and 6" lengths. I have had
better luck with the 2 piece bits rather than the solid one piece bits.
IIRC the 2 piece design helps absorb some of the shock when using a power
driver and or impact. I have had several 1 piece designs break and
typically the 2 piece designs simply wear out.
Additionally I highly recommend getting one of the larger combo packages
that McFeeleys offers as once you switch to these screws you never want to
use a screw from the borg again. I probably keep 3 or 4 thousand on hand at
any given time in sizes from 3/8" through 3" in #4, #6, #8, and #10. I
really do not want to use any other kind of screw if I can help it. The
assortments offer a pretty good value and you get a pretty good sampling of
common sizes. I store these screws in 9 steel parts bin drawers. Screws in
larger quantities become heavy of a container and these steel drawers allow
dividers to separate different length screws.
Garage_Woodworks wrote:
> I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some
> 'good' screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor
> furniture? Black oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
>
> Confused...
Why confused if corrosion isn't a problem? If the fastener won't show the
finish is immaterial. If it shows, get the color you want.
One caveat: don't use steel screws (other than SS) in oak (or Western red
cedar). Brass or bronze are fine, bronze is stronger. With either, first
fasten with a steel screw then remove it and replace with the non-corroding
one.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Lew
>
> As a neophyte, what makes the Home Depot Deck Screws so bad relative
> to McFeely's?
> - Less strong/more brittle?
Softer
> - Poorer coating for corrosion resistance? (I am comparing here to
> other coated screws not to the gold standard of SS)
Have not witnessed a problem there.
> - Poorer head design? (Phillips vs. Square Drive)
They are actually a combination of phillips and square drive, sorta. You
can use a phillips or square drive on thise deck scresa as well as some of
the McFeeleys screws.
> - Worse thread design?
Have not witnessed.
>
> I imagine many will say all-of-the-above but since I have (mistakenly)
> invested already in a full range of HD deck screws in multiple sizes
> and colors, I would like to understand the limitations better before I
> chuck them or relegate them to just temporary uses.
The biggest difference is that the deck screws are pretty much designed to
be used one time. Higher quality screws similar to McFeeleys screws can be
used over and over. My experience with the Borg deck screws it that they
can cam out and the bit can ruin the head much like the typical low quality
screw. The square drive makes Philips combination makes this less likely to
happen but if the bit slips it usually will damage the head. With the
higher quality screws the bit will typically slip out many many times be for
any significant damage is done. The Borg deck screws are simply too soft to
hold up for repeated usage.
"Chiefwoodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:bb1ee5e8-706b-44bf-bc34-734b6a7b906d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Garage_Woodworks
>There was a very good article in either Popular Woodworking or Fine
>Woodworking last month on just this topic. I am not near my magazines
>right now so I can't say which. Maybe another reader can.
There is an article by Glen Huey in the Summer 2008 issue of Woodworking
Magazine...
John
On Jun 15, 6:32 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Tanus" wrote:
> > Man, I love that tip. Had never thought of it before, but it just
> > makes so much sense. I'm building something in cedar right now, and
> > will be using brass screws, but was going to be careful and take
> > tons of time with them. Now with your idea I can pre-set them with
> > steel. Thanks!
>
> Brass is very weak.
>
> Bronze is stronger and will look better over time, especially for
> exterior work.
That's one of those weird things - bronze is copper and tin, brass is
copper and zinc. Zinc is harder than tin, but bronze is harder than
brass.
What's even more interesting is the theory about why there was a
transition from the Bronze to the Iron Age. I had always thought that
iron was a tougher material for making implements, but it seems that
the transition was due to problems with trade making it tough to get
the requisite base metals to make bronze together in the same place.
Kind of weird to think that interrupted trade routes set us back in an
area of such primary importance.
R
Garage_Woodworks
There was a very good article in either Popular Woodworking or Fine
Woodworking last month on just this topic. I am not near my magazines
right now so I can't say which. Maybe another reader can.
Joe....
Website: www.srww.com
Blog: www.srww.com/blog
On Jun 15, 8:30=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Garage_Woodworks wrote:
> > I usually use drywall screws from home depot. =A0I want to order some
> > 'good' screws from McFeeleys. =A0What kind do you buy for indoor
> > furniture? =A0Black oxide? =A0Unplated dry lube? =A0Black phosphate?
>
> Depends on the "look" you want. =A0All the platings other than
> galvanizing are for appearance mostly.
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Should I assume, then, that the toy contracts specified lead paint, and the
dog food components specified ethelene glycol?
Glen
--
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The Chinese can make just about anything you want (remember, they are
> quite capable of making nuclear weapons and manned spacecraft), but
> they are going to make exactly what the contract specifies. If it
> doesn't specify either the metallurgy or the required performance then
> they will use the cheapest material they can get, and if the head
> comes off going in, well, you didn't say it had to be driveable.
>
"Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
>I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some
>'good' screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor
>furniture? Black oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
Since most of what I've done is marine related, I standardized on S/S
a long time ago.
Found that coarse thread, self tapping, sheet metal screws do a great
job in wood, so that's what I use and haven't looked back.
Buy full boxes from Jamestown Distributors, so the cost isn't too bad.
BTW, do use some el-cheapo deck screws from H/D, strictly for temp
work such as holding plywood in position while fiberglass is applied.
Screws are then removed and trashed.
Have fun.
Lew
Garage_Woodworks wrote:
> I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some
> 'good' screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor
> furniture? Black oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
Depends on the "look" you want. All the platings other than
galvanizing are for appearance mostly.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
dadiOH wrote:
>
> One caveat: don't use steel screws (other than SS) in oak (or Western red
> cedar). Brass or bronze are fine, bronze is stronger. With either, first
> fasten with a steel screw then remove it and replace with the non-corroding
> one.
>
Man, I love that tip. Had never thought of it before, but it just makes
so much sense. I'm building something in cedar right now, and will be
using brass screws, but was going to be careful and take tons of time
with them. Now with your idea I can pre-set them with steel. Thanks!
Tanus
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "blueman" wrote:
>
>> As a neophyte, what makes the Home Depot Deck Screws so bad
>> relative
>> to McFeely's?
>
> Metallurgy.
>
> Good metallurgy is like good cooking, they both take time and
> practice
> to learn, and good ingredients to get good results.
>
> Lowes & H/D are using sources from offshore who have not yet
> developed
> good in house metallurgy YET.
>
> They will get there, it will just take time.
>
> Mean while the stuff is not very good.
>
> BTW, there are no longer any US fastener manufacturers, it's all
> offshore.
I keep seeing this assertion. Just because you can't find US
fasteners at Home Depot don't assume that there are no manufacturers.
Try Alcoa, Penn Engineering, and SPS for three.
> It's just some countries have better metallurgy and quality control.
The Chinese can make just about anything you want (remember, they are
quite capable of making nuclear weapons and manned spacecraft), but
they are going to make exactly what the contract specifies. If it
doesn't specify either the metallurgy or the required performance then
they will use the cheapest material they can get, and if the head
comes off going in, well, you didn't say it had to be driveable.
By the way, I don't know where the fasteners I pulled out of my garage
a few weeks ago came from, but they were going on 40 years old and the
heads pulled off of them just as handily as they do off the latest
Home Depot Chinese stuff.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Glen wrote:
> Should I assume, then, that the toy contracts specified lead paint,
> and the dog food components specified ethelene glycol?
Did the contract say "no lead paint"? Did it say "no ethylene
glycol"?
> Glen
>
>
> - Ronald Reagan
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The Chinese can make just about anything you want (remember, they
>> are
>> quite capable of making nuclear weapons and manned spacecraft), but
>> they are going to make exactly what the contract specifies. If it
>> doesn't specify either the metallurgy or the required performance
>> then they will use the cheapest material they can get, and if the
>> head comes off going in, well, you didn't say it had to be
>> driveable.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:16:54 -0400, Tanus <[email protected]> wrote:
>Man, I love that tip. Had never thought of it before, but it just makes
>so much sense. I'm building something in cedar right now, and will be
>using brass screws, but was going to be careful and take tons of time
>with them. Now with your idea I can pre-set them with steel. Thanks!
Forget presetting. I really like Stainless Steel in cedar. This guy
is local to me:
<http://www.maxbaldwin.com/>
After seeing him use hundreds of thousands of screws, I'm convinced.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
> BTW, do use some el-cheapo deck screws from H/D, strictly for temp
> work such as holding plywood in position while fiberglass is applied.
> Screws are then removed and trashed.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
As a neophyte, what makes the Home Depot Deck Screws so bad relative
to McFeely's?
- Less strong/more brittle?
- Poorer coating for corrosion resistance? (I am comparing here to
other coated screws not to the gold standard of SS)
- Poorer head design? (Phillips vs. Square Drive)
- Worse thread design?
- All of the above?
I imagine many will say all-of-the-above but since I have (mistakenly)
invested already in a full range of HD deck screws in multiple sizes
and colors, I would like to understand the limitations better before I
chuck them or relegate them to just temporary uses.
Thanks
blueman wrote:
.. snip
>
> As a neophyte, what makes the Home Depot Deck Screws so bad relative
> to McFeely's?
> - Less strong/more brittle?
> - Poorer coating for corrosion resistance? (I am comparing here to
> other coated screws not to the gold standard of SS)
> - Poorer head design? (Phillips vs. Square Drive)
> - Worse thread design?
> - All of the above?
>
> I imagine many will say all-of-the-above but since I have (mistakenly)
> invested already in a full range of HD deck screws in multiple sizes
> and colors, I would like to understand the limitations better before I
> chuck them or relegate them to just temporary uses.
Deck screws, you are probably alright. Their other wood screws, at least
in my experience fall under the less strong/more brittle category. I could
not get a screw, even with a pilot hole, to drive home without snapping 80%
of the time. I finally wound up throwing any of those HD screws away, it
just wasn't worth the hassle, especially after finding McFeeley's.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Glen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Should I assume, then, that the toy contracts specified lead paint, and
> the dog food components specified ethelene glycol?
You should assume that the company that gave the specifications did not
indicate all information pertinent for the manufacture of the product.
Specs probably called for "paint" not the type of paint and or they did not
indicate which filler to use in the dog food, although I would believe that
may have been an actual mistake like the bottled drinking water from France
mistakenly having Benzene in it. You have to tell them "everything" not
just the basic perimeters. Remember that breaking the word "ass u me" up is
what happens if you assume that the manufacturer can read your mind if you
do not indicate "exactly" what you want.
"Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>
> <SNIP of very helpful info>
>
>> assortments offer a pretty good value and you get a pretty good sampling
>> of common sizes. I store these screws in 9 steel parts bin drawers.
>> Screws in larger quantities become heavy of a container and these steel
>> drawers allow dividers to separate different length screws.
>>
>
> Thank you! I ordered an assortment (#8 black oxide) last night. I get
> 100 each of 3/4" through 2-1/2".
>
> They state on their web page that the coated screws have the same strength
> as the uncoated. I think I am use to the black oxide from using dry wall
> screws for so long so I went with those.
Yeah, strength changes when you change types of material to make the screw.
The black oxide will be more consistent in color, the dry lube can vary from
gun metal grey to slightly brown. You be fine with those.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:21:28 -0400, "Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote:
>I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some 'good'
>screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor furniture? Black
>oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
I like the yellow zinc plated for general furniture work.
You're going to like those screws. No tapered threads and very easy
to drive without slips and cam-out.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Tanus" wrote:
> Man, I love that tip. Had never thought of it before, but it just
> makes so much sense. I'm building something in cedar right now, and
> will be using brass screws, but was going to be careful and take
> tons of time with them. Now with your idea I can pre-set them with
> steel. Thanks!
Brass is very weak.
Bronze is stronger and will look better over time, especially for
exterior work.
A little more costly, but not that much, IMHO.
Lew
"blueman" wrote:
> As a neophyte, what makes the Home Depot Deck Screws so bad relative
> to McFeely's?
Metallurgy.
Good metallurgy is like good cooking, they both take time and practice
to learn, and good ingredients to get good results.
Lowes & H/D are using sources from offshore who have not yet developed
good in house metallurgy YET.
They will get there, it will just take time.
Mean while the stuff is not very good.
BTW, there are no longer any US fastener manufacturers, it's all
offshore.
It's just some countries have better metallurgy and quality control.
Lew
"Garage_Woodworks" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I usually use drywall screws from home depot. I want to order some
>'good' screws from McFeeleys. What kind do you buy for indoor
>furniture? Black oxide? Unplated dry lube? Black phosphate?
>
> Confused...
>
> --
> Brian
> www.garagewoodworks.com
These are my favorite for indoor furniture:
http://www.mcfeelys.com/flathead-yellow-zinc
Max