I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. I saw on some web site where they
made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up from
the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. I thought of
getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. I am open
to any ideas.
Any ideas are appreciated.
"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb6f35e0-8ada-4057-ba5f-738d9eff97ac@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> > >I need a pin router setup
>> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> > attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
> > fence.
> > The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that
> > the
> > work could be placed.
>
> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
screw and
some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
arm.
That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
That is not always possible expecially if the piece to be routed is several
inches thick. I simply drilled a hole in a board and raised the bit half
way through. Dropped the bin in to the hole after adjusting the fence/pin
arm over the hole and then tightening the fence in place.
On Aug 30, 12:45=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <bwx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > So, now I have a pin-router! =A0Now I just have to think of a good
> > project I can use it on....
>
> > John
>
> Now you are entering my favorite territory of woodworking, pattern
> making. The pattern maker is the top guy in the shop. I love laying
> out and making patterns. I prefer perfect arcs as opposed to close
> arcs cut on a bandsaw sanded to near perfect.
>
> Mission oak end tables and coffee table. They have long upswing arcs
> cut into the underside of some of the aprons. Make the patterns using
> a router as a compass by mounting it to a thin plank of plywood to use
> as a trammel. Make sense? Then cut the patterns from MDF using few
> passes of increasing depth.
>
> I've cut some items like this with 15' radii (sp) and had to do the
> layout on the floor with chalk lines, very cool.
I'm kind of toying with the idea of doing inlay... My thought is
this: I can buy some cheap plastic letters over at the dollar store,
glue them (backwards of course) and a border onto the back of my
workpiece with some sort of removable glue. I then set the router to
1/4" above the table, and route those carefully into the workpiece
(maybe two passes to reduce resistance). I then spray the back of the
worksheet (letters and all) with PAM, or other non-sticky stuff. I
take some sort of clay / epoxy (still working out what would work good
here), and mold that around my letters. Let it dry, so it's hard,
remove it, and now I have an inverse pattern! Stick that to my inlay
material, and make an exact copy of that, which should theoretically
fit exactly into my pattern out front.
Remove the letters, sand off the PAM, glue and anything else, touch up
the inlay a bit with a file so it actually fits, and voila!
I'll let you all know how (if) it works! (Wish me luck)
John
"woodstuff" <dropdownbox@hotmail.com> wrote
> *Where I am going is that you have a good idea of attaching the "arm" to
> the
> fence (I had not thought of this). Thanks for the input. This may
> happen,
> but I am not sure yet.
Putting the arm on something that has to be relocated every time it is set
up sounds like the sort of nightmare I avoid like the plague. Every setup I
use gets designed so the whole thing is set up as soon as I place it. Add
to that the fact that the fence may have some play in it makes another
reason why I would not like it.
Some have said that there is no force on the pin. I disagree. It is
correct to say that ideally, there is no force on the pin, but you all know
the difference between theory and reality. (there is a joke in there,
somewhere <g>)
The idea is that you control the movement of the workpiece precisely, and
only lightly touch the pin to the template. In my experience, the router
will sometimes grab some grain and slam the workpiece into the pin. If the
pin gives, you just messed up your workpiece. I say make the arm and pin
hell for stout.
I have a setup like the one in the link that is homemade. The big
difference is that I have my arm mounted to the saw table with the location
fixed through drilled and tapped holes in the saw table. My hardwood arm
has steel bushed holes undersized for 5/16" bolts, then I drilled a snug
5/16 hole with the drillpress, then used that as a guide to drill and tap
the cast iron table saw surface, after I located the pin in the arm by
chucking it in the router, then clamped the arm to the table. When I
drilled the saw, I knew that the pin was in the right place, and the arm
would be in the right place every time I mounted the arm.
I welded some 1/4" rod on the top of the bolts (fine thread) to use the
bolts as wing nuts, and still be able to put a wrench to the bolt head to
torque it down. The pin is a cut off bolt, threaded into the arm, with a
nut on each side to keep it rigid. I can turn the bolt to set the height
(flat ground into the pin threads on the top side of the arm) then tighten
the nuts to keep it where I want it.
I enjoy using my setup, and find it has many more uses than making signs.
--
Jim in NC
> So, now I have a pin-router! =A0Now I just have to think of a good
> project I can use it on....
>
> John
Now you are entering my favorite territory of woodworking, pattern
making. The pattern maker is the top guy in the shop. I love laying
out and making patterns. I prefer perfect arcs as opposed to close
arcs cut on a bandsaw sanded to near perfect.
Mission oak end tables and coffee table. They have long upswing arcs
cut into the underside of some of the aprons. Make the patterns using
a router as a compass by mounting it to a thin plank of plywood to use
as a trammel. Make sense? Then cut the patterns from MDF using few
passes of increasing depth.
I've cut some items like this with 15' radii (sp) and had to do the
layout on the floor with chalk lines, very cool.
>
> I'll let you all know how (if) it works! =A0(Wish me luck)
>
> John- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
A little hard to follow all of that. I think for this type of
operation what might be easier is an actual "overarm pin router" where
the router is above the table and the pin is on the table. You are
blind in one way or the other you either can't see the pattern or you
can't see the cutter but with an overarm pin router you can at least
see the bit so you can tell if how the cutting is going.
These units are big behemoths that can weight tons (literally) but you
can get them second hand really cheap sometimes because they have
fallen a bit out of favor.
On ebay an expensive one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D360170931846&rvr_id=3D=
132307502449&crlp=3D1_263602_263622&UA=3DWXI8&GUID=3Da86aa8971280a0b586f4a7=
b4ffea57b7&itemid=3D360170931846&ff4=3D263602_263622
On Amazon a new cheaper one. http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1736-Overarm-R=
outer/dp/B001R23T7G
I have seen the big ones for a few hundred bucks.
On Aug 26, 1:19=A0pm, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
> dpb wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > that 1/2" Al is rigid enough it doesn't vibrate--the wood solution is
> > good about absorbing that.
>
> OK, if that's 1/2" sq bar it'll be plenty stout enough. =A0Was thinking o=
f
> flat then realized only gave the one dimension so must be square, sorry..=
.
>
> --
So I built one this weekend, just for the fun of it. It's a 17" MDF
arm type (it only fastens to one side of the table). The arm itself
is a 3" piece of MDF which is vertical, glued to 4" piece of MDF which
is horizontal. I made the pin holder detachable so I could swap out
1/2" and 1/4" pins. I took two pieces of 2.5" x 2.5" x 3/4" oak,
clamped them together, and drilled a 1/4" hole between them to hold
the pin. I sanded the inside of one piece slightly (to make the hole
just slightly smaller than 1/4"), and attached the piece to the MDF
using two bolts with wing-nuts on either side of the pin hole.
Because I can tighten/loosen the wing-nuts easily, I can easily adjust
the height of the pin. I had planned to bolt the whole thing to the
router table, but it seems to hold quite well with just a couple of
clamps!
I tested it, and it has less than 1/2 mm give for about 1 pound of
pressure in one direction, and 1/4 mm in the other...
So, now I have a pin-router! Now I just have to think of a good
project I can use it on....
John
On Aug 25, 12:39=A0pm, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
> I like the idea of using the router to make the hole in the arm to -
> makes it much more accurate -- so my question on that is, if I had a
> piece of aluminum, and a so good router bit, and a router where I
> can't adjust the speed... =A0Ok, you know where this is going...
If your overarm is aluminum, you can still drill it with the router,
just slow the router down (I'd use a variac, but light bulbs
in series with the AC would work, too). Use a metal drill, of course
(in fact, use two, one undersize and another to
finish it; or use a drill and a reamer if you can get one).
Keep the metal bits out of the router motor, of course.
Clamping a dowel in an aluminum-member hole is relatively
easy, make a second parallel hole and connect 'em with a saw cut,
then use bolt/nut to squeeze the cut closed.
"woodstuff" <dropdownbox@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> *Tomorrow AM, I will start to work on making this and we'll see what
> happens.
> By the way, I have plenty of scrap steel and I can cut, drill, tap, and
> weld, so something somehow will happen.
Good luck. Let us know how it develops, if you would. You might come up
with some ideas someone else can use.
--
Jim in NC
On Aug 25, 3:11=A0am, "woodstuff" <dropdown...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. =A0I saw on some web site where t=
hey
> made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up fro=
m
> the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. =A0I thought of
> getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
> mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. =A0I am=
open
> to any ideas.
>
> Any ideas are appreciated.
Put the pin at the end of a short-stroke pneumatic piston controlled
by a two-way foot pedal.
People, somehow, never seem to think how they are going to get the
work on and off.
Onsrud makes a few beauties can can give you some inspirational clues.
Delta made one, years ago, where you could have the motor either
overhead or below the table. IOW it doubled as a shaper. Induction
motor.
Then there is the venerable RU50, can be had used cheaply. Voltage and
phase can be a bit of a prob.
On 25 Aug, 08:11, "woodstuff" <dropdown...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. =A0
Mine is my usual crude MDF router table, with an overhead arm made up
and temporarily bolted to it (my table top is full of threaded inserts
for jigs). The arm is a copy of commercial gadgets, really just a
simple double plate girder made up from biscuit-jointed MDF. The "pin"
itself is an old 1/4" bearing guided router cutter (carbide inserts
removed).
It's good for medium-sized stuff, but for big stuff you'd need to
either make a huge table for support, or else to go back to a static
workpiece and a free router with a bearing guided bit.
On Aug 25, 10:36=A0am, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 12:06=A0pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> > >I need a pin router setup
>> ... =A0Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> > attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router fe=
nce.
> > The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that t=
he
> > work could be placed.
>
> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... =A0Take a piece of
> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
screw and
some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
arm.
That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
On Aug 25, 2:09=A0pm, whit3rd <whit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 10:36=A0am, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 12:06=A0pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> > > >I need a pin router setup
> >> =A0... =A0Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> > > attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router =
fence.
> > > The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that=
the
> > > work could be placed.
>
> > This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... =A0Take a piece of
> > MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> > hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
>
> A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
> screw and
> some nuts'. =A0 Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
> then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
> arm.
> That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
I was thinking that you would use a screw with a round head (Philips
or Robertson), and that the head would be on the bottom. A steel
dowel pin sounds good to as long as there's a good way to fasten it to
your overhead board so that it doesn't have any play. (Inserting a
shank through a 1/4" hole without nuts to secure it seems a bit flimsy
to me).
I like the idea of using the router to make the hole in the arm to -
makes it much more accurate -- so my question on that is, if I had a
piece of aluminum, and a so good router bit, and a router where I
can't adjust the speed... Ok, you know where this is going...
John
On Aug 30, 7:25=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <bwx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I'll let you all know how (if) it works! =A0(Wish me luck)
>
> > John- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> A little hard to follow all of that. I think for this type of
> operation what might be easier is an actual "overarm pin router" where
> the router is above the table and the pin is on the table. You are
> blind in one way or the other you either can't see the pattern or you
> can't see the cutter but with an overarm pin router you can at least
> see the bit so you can tell if how the cutting is going.
>
> These units are big behemoths that can weight tons (literally) but you
> can get them second hand really cheap sometimes because they have
> fallen a bit out of favor.
>
> On ebay an expensive one:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&it=
em=3D360170931846&rvr_i...
>
> On Amazon a new cheaper one.http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1736-Overarm-=
Router/dp/B001R23T7G
>
> I have seen the big ones for a few hundred bucks.
My pin router, including everything was $25... It might not be
ideal, but I think it will get the job done... (if I did have that
sort of money, I think I'd be saving up for a decent CNC router....
ahhh, the dreams....). Anyways, I'm going to try to do some house
number inlays, but it will likely have to wait until the weekend at
this point...
Woodstuff -- thanks for starting this thread. How's your setup going?
John
On Aug 25, 12:06=A0pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> "woodstuff" <dropdown...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:i52fnq$r5m$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> > irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. =A0I saw on some web site where=
they
> > made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up f=
rom
> > the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. =A0I thought o=
f
> > getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
> > mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. =A0I =
am
> > open
> > to any ideas.
>
> > Any ideas are appreciated.
>
> I had a project about 20 years involving that method. =A0WoodSmith magazi=
ne
> had the article. =A0Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router fenc=
e.
> The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that the
> work could be placed.
This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
place on top of two spacers on either side of the router table, and
clamp down such that the screw is centered over your router bit...
done. You might have to mark your router table to ensure the pin is
always centered, but outside of that I don't see any issues. I think
I might even give it a whirl on the weekend....
John
"woodstuff" <dropdownbox@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i52fnq$r5m$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. I saw on some web site where they
> made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up from
> the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. I thought of
> getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
> mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. I am
> open
> to any ideas.
>
> Any ideas are appreciated.
>
>
I had a project about 20 years involving that method. WoodSmith magazine
had the article. Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router fence.
The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that the
work could be placed.
On 08/25/2010 02:11 AM, woodstuff wrote:
> I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. I saw on some web site where they
> made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up from
> the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. I thought of
> getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
> mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. I am open
> to any ideas.
>
> Any ideas are appreciated.
Have you seen Lee Valley's solution?:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=43038&cat=1,43053,43885
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
John wrote:
...
> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts, ...
I'd suggest using rod instead or cut the head off a longer bolt rather
than a machine screw to avoid the threads.
I've always simply drilled a hole in a piece of hardwood such as maple
for the mount and pressed the pin into it. Use the same idea except w/
a bearing mounted for template shaping on the shaper.
--
John wrote:
...
> I was thinking that you would use a screw with a round head (Philips
> or Robertson), and that the head would be on the bottom. A steel
> dowel pin sounds good to as long as there's a good way to fasten it to
> your overhead board so that it doesn't have any play. (Inserting a
> shank through a 1/4" hole without nuts to secure it seems a bit flimsy
> to me).
Only the small surface area of a head isn't nearly as good as the pin.
You drill the hole to make a press fit -- it will _not_ be loose nor
flimsy and will need no additional help to stay put.
Drill rod is an excellent choice for the material, the bright steel rod
stock in 3-ft lengths available at any hardware is a good second and
readily available choice.
--
On 8/25/2010 3:39 PM, John wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2:09 pm, whit3rd<whit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John<john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon"<lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
>>>>> I need a pin router setup
>>>> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
>>>> attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router fence.
>>>> The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that the
>>>> work could be placed.
>>
>>> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
>>> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
>>> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
>>
>> A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
>> screw and
>> some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
>> then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
>> arm.
>> That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
>
> I was thinking that you would use a screw with a round head (Philips
> or Robertson), and that the head would be on the bottom. A steel
> dowel pin sounds good to as long as there's a good way to fasten it to
> your overhead board so that it doesn't have any play. (Inserting a
> shank through a 1/4" hole without nuts to secure it seems a bit flimsy
> to me).
Depends on the depth of the hole. Use a couple of thicknesses of 3/4
inch MDF so it's an inch and a half deep, and glue in in a piece of
brass tubing (hobby shop item) and it should be pretty stable.
> I like the idea of using the router to make the hole in the arm to -
> makes it much more accurate -- so my question on that is, if I had a
> piece of aluminum, and a so good router bit, and a router where I
> can't adjust the speed... Ok, you know where this is going...
>
> John
On 8/25/2010 2:31 PM, Leon wrote:
> "whit3rd"<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bb6f35e0-8ada-4057-ba5f-738d9eff97ac@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John<john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon"<lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
>
>>>> I need a pin router setup
>>> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
>>> attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
>>> fence.
>>> The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that
>>> the
>>> work could be placed.
>>
>> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
>> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
>> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
>
> A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
> screw and
> some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
> then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
> arm.
> That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
>
>
> That is not always possible expecially if the piece to be routed is several
> inches thick. I simply drilled a hole in a board and raised the bit half
> way through. Dropped the bin in to the hole after adjusting the fence/pin
> arm over the hole and then tightening the fence in place.
Make a 1/4 or 1/2 inch hole for the pin, drop in 1/4 or 1/2 inch dowel,
chuck dowel in router, tighten fasteners that hold mounting bracket,
remove dowel, replace with regular pin, presto, it's centered. Should
work anyway, never tried it myself.
>
>
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i545hh0r9f@news1.newsguy.com...
> On 8/25/2010 2:31 PM, Leon wrote:
> > "whit3rd"<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
news:bb6f35e0-8ada-4057-ba5f-738d9eff97ac@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> > On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John<john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
> >> On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon"<lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> >
> >>>> I need a pin router setup
> >>> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> >>> attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
> >>> fence.
> >>> The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that
> >>> the
> >>> work could be placed.
> >>
> >> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> >> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> >> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
> >
> > A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
> > screw and
> > some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
> > then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
> > arm.
> > That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
> >
> >
> > That is not always possible expecially if the piece to be routed is
several
> > inches thick. I simply drilled a hole in a board and raised the bit
half
> > way through. Dropped the bin in to the hole after adjusting the
fence/pin
> > arm over the hole and then tightening the fence in place.
>
> Make a 1/4 or 1/2 inch hole for the pin, drop in 1/4 or 1/2 inch dowel,
> chuck dowel in router, tighten fasteners that hold mounting bracket,
> remove dowel, replace with regular pin, presto, it's centered. Should
> work anyway, never tried it myself.
Yep, Yep. That should also solve the problem of realigning the pin and bit
if I should have to remove the jig.
Thanks
"John" <john.ulvr@broadcom.com> wrote in message
news:c7af1fea-8d26-4ac5-9486-c043d8542a3e@c21g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 25, 2:09 pm, whit3rd <whit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> > > >I need a pin router setup
> >> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> > > attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
fence.
> > > The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that
the work could be placed.
>
> > This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> > MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> > hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
>
> A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
> screw and
> some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
> then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
> arm.
> That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
>I was thinking that you would use a screw with a round head (Philips
or Robertson), and that the head would be on the bottom. A steel
dowel pin sounds good to as long as there's a good way to fasten it to
your overhead board so that it doesn't have any play. (Inserting a
shank through a 1/4" hole without nuts to secure it seems a bit flimsy
to me).
*There are ways to secure the pin without nuts, several ways. That isn't a
great problem for me.
>I like the idea of using the router to make the hole in the arm to -
makes it much more accurate -- so my question on that is, if I had a
piece of aluminum, and a so good router bit, and a router where I
can't adjust the speed... Ok, you know where this is going...
>John
*Well, actually, I had thought of using some aluminum, as I have several
longer pieces of 1/2" by 6' bar stock (6061). But my routers (690's) aren't
variable speed so I am getting a visual on heat, a dull or broken bit, lotsa
noise, jumping back, calling 911, etc. I could use a HSS jobber bit
instead, but I haven't tried that either at such speeds. I thought of using
a router bit to "mark" the aluminum, then hogging it out with a regular
drill press, then going back to plan A. I am not afraid of this procedure,
but I respect it alot! I kinda like dpb's idea of hardwood for now.
Thanks for the ideas.
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbell.dotnet> wrote in message
news:-bidnWX1zbwY_OjRnZ2dnUVZ5tKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bb6f35e0-8ada-4057-ba5f-738d9eff97ac@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
>
> > > >I need a pin router setup
> >> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> > > attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
> > > fence.
> > > The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that
> > > the
> > > work could be placed.
> >
> > This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> > MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> > hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
>
> A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
> screw and
> some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm firmly,
> then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
> arm.
> That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
*Agree.
> That is not always possible expecially if the piece to be routed is
several
> inches thick. I simply drilled a hole in a board and raised the bit half
> way through. Dropped the bin in to the hole after adjusting the fence/pin
> arm over the hole and then tightening the fence in place.
*I can drill the pin hole with the router, since I am cutting pieces only
3/4
to 7/8 thick. The only drawback to attaching this critter to a fence is
that I can't use my table saw without removing it and then hoping to get the
pin back where it was. But it still would work.
Thanks
"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bb6f35e0-8ada-4057-ba5f-738d9eff97ac@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 25, 10:36 am, John <john.u...@broadcom.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 12:06 pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
> > >I need a pin router setup
>> ... Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> > attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
fence.
> > The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that
the
> > work could be placed.
>
> This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts,
>A steel dowel pin, or a bearing on a router bit, is better than 'a
screw and some nuts'. Most importantly, you first mount the overarm
firmly, then drill the socket for the dowel by raising your router into the
arm. That's to ensure centering and keep the hole aimed on axis.
Good method, Thanks.
"dpb" <none@non.net> wrote in message
news:i53l0v$q08$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> John wrote:
> ...
> > This doesn't sound like it would be hard to make... Take a piece of
> > MDF (or heavy L bar) that's the width of your routing table, drill a
> > hole in the middle, make a pin with a machine screw and some nuts, ...
>
> I'd suggest using rod instead or cut the head off a longer bolt rather
> than a machine screw to avoid the threads.
I agree with the smooth steel rod, it had been my plan
> I've always simply drilled a hole in a piece of hardwood such as maple
> for the mount and pressed the pin into it. Use the same idea except w/
> a bearing mounted for template shaping on the shaper.
*Good point, as the material holding the pin needs to be really strong. I
may consider metal, as I have some laying around. I could maybe attach a
metal/wood structure on top of my fence. My fence is a copy of the
Beismeyer, which was made by a machinist friend and a welder in the
industrial park where I was in the 80's. It is made of 2 x 4 quarter-wall,
making for easy drilling and tapping.
I can only use a 1/2" or smaller bit to make the curves necessary and the
rub collars (bearings) on a shaper wouldn't work for my immediate needs.
Your input is appreciated.
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbell.dotnet> wrote in message
news:ffydnULgIszhoujRnZ2dnUVZ5hCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "woodstuff" <dropdownbox@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i52fnq$r5m$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> > irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. I saw on some web site where
they
> > made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up
from
> > the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. I thought of
> > getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
> > mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. I am
> > open
> > to any ideas.
> >
> > Any ideas are appreciated.
> >
> >
>
> I had a project about 20 years involving that method. WoodSmith magazine
> had the article. Basically used a 1/2" straight bit in the router and
> attached a 1/2" dowel through a piece of wood attached to the router
fence.
> The dowel was centered above the router bit and was removable so that the
> work could be placed.
>
>
*Not a bad idea. I don't have a proper router table, but I have had (since
'87) a router base mounted under an extension of the left wing of my table
saw. I use it mostly for grooves with the fence with a mortising bit. I
also use it without the fence for detail bits with bearings.
*Where I am going is that you have a good idea of attaching the "arm" to the
fence (I had not thought of this). Thanks for the input. This may happen,
but I am not sure yet.
Again, thanks for the input.
"Steve Turner" <bbqboyee@swtacobell.net> wrote in message
news:i52ulr$jjl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 08/25/2010 02:11 AM, woodstuff wrote:
> > I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> > irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern. I saw on some web site where
they
> > made an arm that attached to a table and there was a router coming up
from
> > the bottom like on a router table, except with no fence. I thought of
> > getting a machinist to flatten the bottom of a drill press table and
> > mounting a router base and using the drill chuck as a pin holder. I am
open
> > to any ideas.
> >
> > Any ideas are appreciated.
>
> Have you seen Lee Valley's solution?:
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=43038&cat=1,43053,43885
>
> --
> See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
> To reply, eat the taco.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
*I did see something similar to that veritas, but it looks like it would be
weak at the base, because of the small base footprint (I could be wrong).
Nevertheless, I don't want to spend that much money for something I can't
put my hands on and try out. It may indeed work and I thank you for the
input. (perhaps this may be my choice, don't know)
"Andy Dingley" <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:b7864b5b-ff04-4542-b3e0-e4a593ae9c4a@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On 25 Aug, 08:11, "woodstuff" <dropdown...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I need a pin router setup (or maybe an inverted pin router) to make some
> irregularly-shaped cuts from a pattern.
>Mine is my usual crude MDF router table, with an overhead arm made up
and temporarily bolted to it (my table top is full of threaded inserts
for jigs). The arm is a copy of commercial gadgets, really just a
simple double plate girder made up from biscuit-jointed MDF. The "pin"
itself is an old 1/4" bearing guided router cutter (carbide inserts
removed).
>It's good for medium-sized stuff, but for big stuff you'd need to
either make a huge table for support, or else to go back to a static
workpiece and a free router with a bearing guided bit.
*Thanks for the suggestion. Mine will have to be stronger, however, as I
will do a lot of workpieces. I can't do the static thing with bearings
because the bearings don't hold up. (if the bearings go south, I can mess
up my pattern and the workpiece.
Again, thanks
woodstuff wrote:
...
> *Well, actually, I had thought of using some aluminum, as I have several
> longer pieces of 1/2" by 6' bar stock (6061). But my routers (690's) aren't
> variable speed so I am getting a visual on heat, a dull or broken bit, lotsa
> noise, jumping back, calling 911, etc. I could use a HSS jobber bit
> instead, but I haven't tried that either at such speeds. I thought of using
> a router bit to "mark" the aluminum, then hogging it out with a regular
> drill press, then going back to plan A. I am not afraid of this procedure,
> but I respect it alot! I kinda like dpb's idea of hardwood for now.
...
Works well; your note earlier about needing to be really strong I'd say
really "not so much" -- the guide pin/holder doesn't see much real
force; simply that required to follow the pattern. If you push too hard
you just make it more difficult to follow the pattern smoothly.
The thing you need more than pure strength is inflexible which a chunk
of maple or white oak or other dense hardwood gives. I don't recall the
characteristics to Al alloys by number otomh; if go that route be sure
that 1/2" Al is rigid enough it doesn't vibrate--the wood solution is
good about absorbing that.
The last comment I intended to add earlier on pin selection -- the drill
rod has the advantage you can get any diameter you want for special
offsets from the template. Generally the 1/16 difference between the
common rod stock is good enough but every once't in a great while
there's a reason for something more precise.
Again, the key is to ensure the mounting hole is sized for a
press/interference fit. I make and center them by drilling the hole
first, use a longer pin initially to locate relative to the
spindle/collet then cut the pin to length and polish ends.
You'll like using it much better if you add a starting pin to the router
table, too, if you don't already have provisions for one.
--
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:19:59 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
> Depends on the depth of the hole. Use a couple of thicknesses of 3/4
> inch MDF so it's an inch and a half deep, and glue in in a piece of
> brass tubing (hobby shop item) and it should be pretty stable.
Or a steel bushing.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
"Morgans" <jsmorgan@charterJUNK.net> wrote in message
news:3j_do.23038$st2.17210@newsfe09.iad...
>
> "woodstuff" <dropdownbox@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > *Where I am going is that you have a good idea of attaching the "arm" to
> > the
> > fence (I had not thought of this). Thanks for the input. This may
> > happen,
> > but I am not sure yet.
>
> Putting the arm on something that has to be relocated every time it is
set
> up sounds like the sort of nightmare I avoid like the plague. Every setup
I
> use gets designed so the whole thing is set up as soon as I place it. Add
> to that the fact that the fence may have some play in it makes another
> reason why I would not like it.
*Yes, I thought about the possible play and having to set it up again.
Indeed, I need this table saw for other uses and don't want to tie it up for
too
long a period. My fence is stronger than the beismeyer, and doesn't have
much play,
but the setup problem is still there, or the re-setup problem. Time is of
the essence,
as I have several hundred pieces to cut.
>
> Some have said that there is no force on the pin. I disagree. It is
> correct to say that ideally, there is no force on the pin, but you all
know
> the difference between theory and reality. (there is a joke in there,
> somewhere <g>)
*There isn't much force on the pin, but there is some, as I had some
experience
with doing some samples with a router and bearing when the bit pulled it
toward the workpiece.
>
> The idea is that you control the movement of the workpiece precisely, and
> only lightly touch the pin to the template. In my experience, the router
> will sometimes grab some grain and slam the workpiece into the pin. If
the
> pin gives, you just messed up your workpiece. I say make the arm and pin
> hell for stout.
**One of the reasons I don't want to do this with a bearing is because I
want to be able to take partial cuts to prevent shearing on end-grain areas.
(I have a pile of messed up ones already, don't need more). The other
reason for the pin router is that bearings don't hold up to production very
well. But yes, there is some force, for sure.
>
> I have a setup like the one in the link that is homemade. The big
> difference is that I have my arm mounted to the saw table with the
location
> fixed through drilled and tapped holes in the saw table. My hardwood arm
> has steel bushed holes undersized for 5/16" bolts, then I drilled a snug
> 5/16 hole with the drillpress, then used that as a guide to drill and tap
> the cast iron table saw surface, after I located the pin in the arm by
> chucking it in the router, then clamped the arm to the table. When I
> drilled the saw, I knew that the pin was in the right place, and the arm
> would be in the right place every time I mounted the arm.
>
> I welded some 1/4" rod on the top of the bolts (fine thread) to use the
> bolts as wing nuts, and still be able to put a wrench to the bolt head to
> torque it down. The pin is a cut off bolt, threaded into the arm, with a
> nut on each side to keep it rigid. I can turn the bolt to set the height
> (flat ground into the pin threads on the top side of the arm) then tighten
> the nuts to keep it where I want it.
>
> I enjoy using my setup, and find it has many more uses than making signs.
> --
> Jim in NC
>
>
*Thanks for your post, and I may do just that, but on another place, as I
have an old shaper that has a wind that I don't use much. (darn, a few years
ago I scrapped out an old delta table saw and now wish I hadn't). surely
mounting onto cast iron or steel would be much better. My workpieces are
6"x12", so I don't need much room.
*Tomorrow AM, I will start to work on making this and we'll see what
happens.
By the way, I have plenty of scrap steel and I can cut, drill, tap, and
weld, so something somehow will happen.
Morgans wrote:
...
> Some have said that there is no force on the pin. ...
I did _NOT_ say there was "no force", I did say there is not a great
deal of force. I also suggested that the pin should be steel and
mounted solidly...
> The idea is that you control the movement of the workpiece precisely, and
> only lightly touch the pin to the template. In my experience, the router
> will sometimes grab some grain and slam the workpiece into the pin....
If it grabs and pulls, that means you're cutting downhill -- as the
doctor said when told "it hurts when I do that", "Don't do that!"
_ALWAYS_ use a climb cut. It's hard enough to control a router and a
fixed workpiece in downhill fashion; it's seriously dangerous w/ a hand
guided workpiece.
As noted, use a starting pin (or pins for multiple locations) and feed
in the proper direction and you'll always be against the cutting
direction and the work will be pushed away from the pin instead of
pulled into it.
--