"dpb" wrote
>
> Reminds me of an incident from years gone by... :)
>
> The "scourge of the south" is, of course, kudzu (a Japanese import brought
> in during the 30s in an (ill-conceived) attempt to reclaim some of the
> worst of the old continuous cotton-planting erosion problems).
>
> Anyway, while in E TN where it is a problem but not nearly as much as
> farther south since the winters do kill it back where we were, had a job
> for DOE in conjunction w/ another company. Their representative was from
> Pittsburgh and a _REAL_ pita to deal with both in and out of the office.
> One day as the the job was _finally_ coming to an end we, as good southern
> hosts, took this fella' and his visiting boss out to a nice lunch at a
> local eatery on the lake. He asked what that pretty ground cover was
> going down the banks to the lake saying he had an area in his back yard
> that needed something that would hold on a hill. We sent him home w/
> enough plantings to bury the house in a couple of years...
>
> If one day Pittsburgh is swallowed up by kudzu, you'll know "the rest of
> the story" :)
>
> --
Good one. Nothing like pulling a fast one on somebody obnoxious.
Remind me to never piss you off.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any flooring people on this list?
>
> A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
> Consumer Reports tests.
>
> Winner was Bamboo.
>
> Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost than
> Oak.
>
> Anybody with first hand experience?
>
The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next door
planted huge amounts of it on hos property. Hundreds of bamboo plants of
several species now occupy every square inch of his property.
Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to beat it
back to the fence. It is insidious. It just takes over. Definitely an
invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It wants to take over
the neighborhood.
In article <[email protected]>, Lee Michaels
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Any flooring people on this list?
> >
> > A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
> > Consumer Reports tests.
> >
> > Winner was Bamboo.
> >
> > Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost than
> > Oak.
> >
> > Anybody with first hand experience?
> >
> The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next door
> planted huge amounts of it on hos property. Hundreds of bamboo plants of
> several species now occupy every square inch of his property.
>
> Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to beat it
> back to the fence. It is insidious. It just takes over. Definitely an
> invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It wants to take over
> the neighborhood.
Three words:
Two
Four
Dee
--
Kiva - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/lender/david87375440
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> "krw" wrote:
>
> > Sure. I put it down in my last house, in the kitchen, dining room,
> > and hallways. I used the vertical stacked medium carbonized
> > version.
> > I liked it a lot, except it looked "too perfect". Kinda like a
> > bowling alley. It seemed to wear well, though it does dent. We
> > also
> > have it in this house, though in a horizontal light carbonized, in
> > the
> > great room, hall, and dining room. This stuff is clearly different
> > than what we used in the previous house. It scratches badly (it's a
> > new house and was badly scratched before we moved in) and has faded
> > a
> > lot. It's clear looking at the line under the door to a closet.
> >
> > Bottom line - I liked it a lot in our previous house. I don't like
> > this stuff at all. Why the difference? - no clue, but I'd probably
> > rip this stuff out and do wood if it weren't glued down (slab
> > construction).
>
> Thank you for the input.
>
> The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
>
> There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
Like everything sold in this world, there are many brands, different
manufacturers and different processes and finishes. The cheap crap doesn't
last nor wear as well as the quality stuff. You cannot just consider that it
is bamboo and not look at the many other factors involved.
Some people want bamboo because they consider it a "green" product using
renewable resources. These people haven't considered that bamboo flooring is
made up of little strips of the material that takes considerable work to
machine then is all glued together with "who knows what ingredients" unknown
glue that may outgass toxic chemicals. Most are made in China where quality
control varies greatly and the finishes they use can be as bad as the glues
they use. Buyer beware.
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:43:05 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>krw wrote:
>...
>> If you can trust any tests the manufacturer or retailer post.
>
>The bulk of the data in the FHB/FWW articles on bamboo characteristics
>itself came from USFS or similar sources...otoh, if the product
>manufacturers' trade associations are fronting bogus data, then there's
>little one can find to use on any product w/o testing it oneself.
If it varies so much, how can you know what you're buying?
>>> Price isn't necessarily that much of a guide to the hardness in
>>> particular; it seems w/ bamboo flooring products more in other areas
>>> such as the orientation, finish durability, variability within product,
>>> etc., ...
>>
>> The finish quality is an obvious place for differences. The
>> difference in the substrate is a bit surprising, though. I guess wood
>> isn't much different.
>
>That's the whole point -- wood and bamboo are nothing alike--their
>structures and properties are vastly different. Add to that there are a
>"veritable plethora" of species of bamboo which have properties that
>range from softer than some pines to harder than sugar maple, to
>consider that just because a flooring material is made from _some_
>species of bamboo is essentially meaningless.
I don't see any species of bamboo listed in catalogs. I guess bamboo
isn't a useful product any more than "wood" is.
On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:53:12 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>krw wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:22:18 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>...
>>> : ... very importantly, the
>>> : actual species used makes a big difference. As well, the caramelizing
>>> : process used to impart color has a large negative impact on the hardness
>>> : of all types, again affecting some more pronouncedly than others. The
>>> : darker the coloring, the more susceptible the end product to denting, etc.
>>
>> Again, my sample size is two but I've found the opposite. The "medium
>> caramelized" I installed in VT was much harder than the "light
>> caramelized" I have here. Maybe the vertical laminations are harder
>> than the horizontal. Dunno. I'd do the stuff I did on my last house
>> again. This stuff, not so much.
>
>I wondered how long it would take...and surprised it took this long! :)
Long?
>The key in the above on caramelization and hardness that was implied but
>not specifically stated is that the effect is within the same species
>and grain orientation, not strictly monotonic across all
>species/grades/manufacturing.
So it's a crap shoot? I bought pretty cheap bamboo, since I was
planning on selling the house in a couple of years. I went with
bamboo mainly because it looked good and was cheaper than replacing
the vinyl. It worked. I managed to sell the house at the end of '07.
"PDQ" wrote:
>Not too sure how it is over your way but ---
Oak is about $5-8 a square foot and Bamboo is about $3 in Canuckistan.
Sounds about right for oak, based on the piece, bamboo was about $4-$5
SQF
>I have plans to do my hidey-hole in grass for about $400. I think
>the grass will last longer in my basement that oak would. With any
>luck I'll get back about 15% come tax-time.
You might want to look at it.
>Don't know about wear and tear yet, but it will have to go some to
>beat my oak floors. 12 years and still no discernable wear.
Had oak flooring in living room and dining room for the 25 years I
lived in the place, but never saw it.
Wall to wall carpeting you know.
Lew
"Lee Michaels" wrote:
>The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next
>door planted huge amounts of it on hos property. Hundreds of bamboo
>plants of several species now occupy every square inch of his
>property.
>
> Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to
> beat it back to the fence.
Should be able to get a couple of cane poles for fishing.
If he has a compost pile, you got worms.
Lew
Cut a trench!
The roots are shallow and won't go deep.
Use a grass killer. It is a grass.
The shoots are used in Asian foods. But you don't have to
eat it.
Good luck. I wanted the Giant bamboo - 4-8" in diameter
but alas, I might not be able to control it.
Martin
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Any flooring people on this list?
>>
>> A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
>> Consumer Reports tests.
>>
>> Winner was Bamboo.
>>
>> Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost than
>> Oak.
>>
>> Anybody with first hand experience?
>>
> The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next door
> planted huge amounts of it on hos property. Hundreds of bamboo plants of
> several species now occupy every square inch of his property.
>
> Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to beat it
> back to the fence. It is insidious. It just takes over. Definitely an
> invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It wants to take over
> the neighborhood.
>
>
>
>
>
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Any flooring people on this list?
>
> A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
> Consumer Reports tests.
>
> Winner was Bamboo.
>
> Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost
> than Oak.
>
> Anybody with first hand experience?
>
"Winner?" What were the tests? Compared to bamboo-looking laminate, laminate
is:
* Cheaper
* Won't dent
* Wears better
* Is impervious to UV rays
* Virtually waterproof
* Never needs "refinishing"
"krw" wrote:
> Sure. I put it down in my last house, in the kitchen, dining room,
> and hallways. I used the vertical stacked medium carbonized
> version.
> I liked it a lot, except it looked "too perfect". Kinda like a
> bowling alley. It seemed to wear well, though it does dent. We
> also
> have it in this house, though in a horizontal light carbonized, in
> the
> great room, hall, and dining room. This stuff is clearly different
> than what we used in the previous house. It scratches badly (it's a
> new house and was badly scratched before we moved in) and has faded
> a
> lot. It's clear looking at the line under the door to a closet.
>
> Bottom line - I liked it a lot in our previous house. I don't like
> this stuff at all. Why the difference? - no clue, but I'd probably
> rip this stuff out and do wood if it weren't glued down (slab
> construction).
Thank you for the input.
The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
Lew
On Jun 30, 9:08=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next door
> planted huge amounts of it on hos property. =A0Hundreds of bamboo plants =
of
> several species now occupy every square inch of his property.
>
> Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to beat =
it
> back to the fence. =A0It is insidious. It just takes over. Definitely an
> invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It wants to take over
> the neighborhood.
The stuff is insidious. People saying to use grass killer apparently
have never tried to kill the stuff off. You'd have to make your
property a Superfund cleanup site if you used enough chemicals to kill
it. You basically have to scorch the earth, kill every living thing
off - good plants and bad, good lifeforms and bad - and then hope it
doesn't come back when you try to repopulate the parcel.
I'm in the northeast and the growing season is shorter than some
places - I can't imagine what it would be like growing in a 4 season
growing climate.
Someone mentioned digging a trench - that's how to start containing
it. Then you have to install an impervious barrier about 18" to 24"
deep. The runners will go down and around or even up and over a
barrier, so it has to go deep, and the top of the barrier should be a
couple of inches above grade so you can see if the runners are trying
to clamber over the barrier. Like I said, the stuff is insidious.
R
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:01:29 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Any flooring people on this list?
>
>A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
>Consumer Reports tests.
>
>Winner was Bamboo.
>
>Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost
>than Oak.
>
>Anybody with first hand experience?
>
Sure. I put it down in my last house, in the kitchen, dining room,
and hallways. I used the vertical stacked medium carbonized version.
I liked it a lot, except it looked "too perfect". Kinda like a
bowling alley. It seemed to wear well, though it does dent. We also
have it in this house, though in a horizontal light carbonized, in the
great room, hall, and dining room. This stuff is clearly different
than what we used in the previous house. It scratches badly (it's a
new house and was badly scratched before we moved in) and has faded a
lot. It's clear looking at the line under the door to a closet.
Bottom line - I liked it a lot in our previous house. I don't like
this stuff at all. Why the difference? - no clue, but I'd probably
rip this stuff out and do wood if it weren't glued down (slab
construction).
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:42:55 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>krw wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:53:12 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>...
>>> I wondered how long it would take...and surprised it took this long! :)
>>
>> Long?
>
>It was five (5) days since I posted the comments on bamboo that included
>the caramelization issue remarked upon... :)
Oh, I was replying thru Andrew (hadn't seen your post earlier).
>I had expected after I reread the post it would be about 5 minutes, tops...
>
>>> The key in the above on caramelization and hardness that was implied but
>>> not specifically stated is that the effect is within the same species
>>> and grain orientation, not strictly monotonic across all
>>> species/grades/manufacturing.
>>
>> So it's a crap shoot? I bought pretty cheap bamboo, since I was
>> planning on selling the house in a couple of years. I went with
>> bamboo mainly because it looked good and was cheaper than replacing
>> the vinyl. It worked. I managed to sell the house at the end of '07.
>
>Pretty much...the summary articles in FWW and FHB (and the data on
>manufacturers' organization website confirm) there's such a wide
>variation in basic properties between the various species and
>manufacturing processes used it's only looking at specific test data for
>a specific product that makes any sense.
If you can trust any tests the manufacturer or retailer post.
>Price isn't necessarily that much of a guide to the hardness in
>particular; it seems w/ bamboo flooring products more in other areas
>such as the orientation, finish durability, variability within product,
>etc., ...
The finish quality is an obvious place for differences. The
difference in the substrate is a bit surprising, though. I guess wood
isn't much different.
In news:[email protected],
Lee Michaels <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> dropped this bit of =
wisdom:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Any flooring people on this list?
>>=20
>> A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
>> Consumer Reports tests.
>>=20
>> Winner was Bamboo.
>>=20
>> Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost
>> than Oak.
>>=20
>> Anybody with first hand experience?
>>=20
> The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next
> door planted huge amounts of it on hos property. Hundreds of bamboo
> plants of several species now occupy every square inch of his
> property.=20
>=20
> Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to
> beat it back to the fence. It is insidious. It just takes over.
> Definitely an invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It
> wants to take over the neighborhood.
Lee, you must remember that bamboo is really grass.
When it gets the chance it will spread out.
If you get lucky he will have planted the "Giant" form and pretty soon =
you will have a fine Panda habitat.
LOL
P D Q
In news:[email protected],
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> dropped this bit of wisdom:
> Any flooring people on this list?
>=20
> A local TV channel ran a consumer segment of flooring citing recent
> Consumer Reports tests.
>=20
> Winner was Bamboo.
>=20
> Not only did it have better wear characteristics but also lower cost
> than Oak.
>=20
> Anybody with first hand experience?
>=20
> Lew
Not too sure how it is over your way but ---
Oak is about $5-8 a square foot and Bamboo is about $3 in Canuckistan.
I have plans to do my hidey-hole in grass for about $400. I think the =
grass will last longer in my basement that oak would. With any luck =
I'll get back about 15% come tax-time.
Don't know about wear and tear yet, but it will have to go some to beat =
my oak floors. 12 years and still no discernable wear.
P D Q
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "krw" wrote:
>
>> Sure. I put it down in my last house, in the kitchen, dining room,
>> and hallways. I used the vertical stacked medium carbonized
>> version.
>> I liked it a lot, except it looked "too perfect". Kinda like a
>> bowling alley. It seemed to wear well, though it does dent. We
>> also
>> have it in this house, though in a horizontal light carbonized, in
>> the
>> great room, hall, and dining room. This stuff is clearly different
>> than what we used in the previous house. It scratches badly (it's a
>> new house and was badly scratched before we moved in) and has faded
>> a
>> lot. It's clear looking at the line under the door to a closet.
>>
>> Bottom line - I liked it a lot in our previous house. I don't like
>> this stuff at all. Why the difference? - no clue, but I'd probably
>> rip this stuff out and do wood if it weren't glued down (slab
>> construction).
>
> Thank you for the input.
>
> The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
>
> There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
Or Consumer Reports was trying to dent it with a wet noodle and scratch it
with a pencil eraser, which would be par for the course for them.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c10f487d-9c27-4c82-b2cc-8412f6e0fef3@n21g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 30, 9:08 pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> The only experience I have with bamboo is this gardening freak next door
> planted huge amounts of it on hos property. Hundreds of bamboo plants of
> several species now occupy every square inch of his property.
>
> Now I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to beat
> it
> back to the fence. It is insidious. It just takes over. Definitely an
> invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It wants to take over
> the neighborhood.
The stuff is insidious. People saying to use grass killer apparently
have never tried to kill the stuff off. You'd have to make your
property a Superfund cleanup site if you used enough chemicals to kill
it. You basically have to scorch the earth, kill every living thing
off - good plants and bad, good lifeforms and bad - and then hope it
doesn't come back when you try to repopulate the parcel.
I'm in the northeast and the growing season is shorter than some
places - I can't imagine what it would be like growing in a 4 season
growing climate.
Someone mentioned digging a trench - that's how to start containing
it. Then you have to install an impervious barrier about 18" to 24"
deep. The runners will go down and around or even up and over a
barrier, so it has to go deep, and the top of the barrier should be a
couple of inches above grade so you can see if the runners are trying
to clamber over the barrier. Like I said, the stuff is insidious.
R
--
doesn't the stuff die out after it blooms, and it all blooms at once? just
wait for that to occur, or import a bunch of pandas on h1b visas.
maybe the zoo will take your cuttings.
RicodJour wrote:
> On Jun 30, 9:08 pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> The only experience I have with bamboo is ...
>>
>> ... I spend time almost every weekend cutting it down and trying to beat it
>> back to the fence. It is insidious. It just takes over. Definitely an
>> invasive species. It does not stay on his property. It wants to take over
>> the neighborhood.
>
> The stuff is insidious. People saying to use grass killer apparently
> have never tried to kill the stuff off. ...
>
> I'm in the northeast and the growing season is shorter than some
> places - I can't imagine what it would be like growing in a 4 season
> growing climate.
...
Reminds me of an incident from years gone by... :)
The "scourge of the south" is, of course, kudzu (a Japanese import
brought in during the 30s in an (ill-conceived) attempt to reclaim some
of the worst of the old continuous cotton-planting erosion problems).
Anyway, while in E TN where it is a problem but not nearly as much as
farther south since the winters do kill it back where we were, had a job
for DOE in conjunction w/ another company. Their representative was
from Pittsburgh and a _REAL_ pita to deal with both in and out of the
office. One day as the the job was _finally_ coming to an end we, as
good southern hosts, took this fella' and his visiting boss out to a
nice lunch at a local eatery on the lake. He asked what that pretty
ground cover was going down the banks to the lake saying he had an area
in his back yard that needed something that would hold on a hill. We
sent him home w/ enough plantings to bury the house in a couple of years...
If one day Pittsburgh is swallowed up by kudzu, you'll know "the rest of
the story" :)
--
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "krw" wrote:
...
>> Bottom line - I liked it a lot in our previous house. I don't like
>> this stuff at all. Why the difference? - no clue, but I'd probably
>> rip this stuff out and do wood if it weren't glued down (slab
>> construction).
>
> Thank you for the input.
>
> The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
>
> There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
...
I, personally, wouldn't put much faith in any CR testing...
There are, indeed, a multitude of grades and the hardness of bamboo in
actual testing varies from softer than some pine to harder than hard
maple (nominal values, of course, all woods have inherent variability in
properties within the same species far more than most other materials).
There have been quite a number of articles in both FHB and FWW over the
last several years on bamboo; most (but not all iirc) of the flooring
applications in FHB as one would expect while the FWW concentrated more
on its use as cabinetwood, counters, etc. Anyway, the upshot of the
evaluations I recall ottomh include that how the flooring is
manufactured from either end or side grain and very importantly, the
actual species used makes a big difference. As well, the caramelizing
process used to impart color has a large negative impact on the hardness
of all types, again affecting some more pronouncedly than others. The
darker the coloring, the more susceptible the end product to denting, etc.
There is a pretty good manufacturers' association and other web sites
with more information; if you're really interested/serious I'd recommend
them and doing a search on the Taunton FHB site for some more in-depth
looking at the variables involved and particularly there for a couple of
articles that discuss bamboo itself from the wood characteristics in a
fair amount of detail. It ain't much at all like other woods in some
important ways; similar in others.
--
dpb wrote:
> Reminds me of an incident from years gone by... :)
>
> The "scourge of the south" is, of course, kudzu (a Japanese import
> brought in during the 30s in an (ill-conceived) attempt to reclaim some
> of the worst of the old continuous cotton-planting erosion problems).
>
> Anyway, while in E TN where it is a problem but not nearly as much as
> farther south since the winters do kill it back where we were, had a job
> for DOE in conjunction w/ another company.
My BIL lives in Knoxville and about 10 years ago we visited and that
crap was covering everything. Visited again a month ago and hardly any
was seen.
Their representative was from Pittsburgh and a _REAL_ pita to deal with
both in and out of the
> office.
He must have been an import. Pittsburghers are all nice.
We
> sent him home w/ enough plantings to bury the house in a couple of years...
> If one day Pittsburgh is swallowed up by kudzu, you'll know "the rest of
> the story" :)
Saved the story in case we need to blame someone for another blob like
attack.:-) I doubt Kudzu or Bamboo will grow around here however,
winters are a bit too harsh for the little wusses .
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Jack Stein wrote:
> dpb wrote:
>
>> Reminds me of an incident from years gone by... :)
>>
>> The "scourge of the south" is, of course, kudzu ...
>>
>> Anyway, while in E TN where it is a problem ...
...
> My BIL lives in Knoxville and about 10 years ago we visited and that
> crap was covering everything. Visited again a month ago and hardly any
> was seen.
Go back end of August and down towards Loudan... :)
It winter kills so takes a little while in the spring/early summer to
get its act together...w/ the rains this spring and early summer it'll
be back out in full force when has a little hot weather...
> Their representative was from Pittsburgh and a _REAL_ pita to deal with
> both in and out of the
>> office.
>
> He must have been an import. Pittsburghers are all nice.
...
LOL...
>
>> If one day Pittsburgh is swallowed up by kudzu, you'll know "the rest
>> of the story" :)
>
> Saved the story in case we need to blame someone for another blob like
> attack.:-) I doubt Kudzu or Bamboo will grow around here however,
> winters are a bit too harsh for the little wusses .
...
Always wondered whether any of it did survive or not. I'd guess if it
once got established it could manage to hang on but wouldn't be nearly
so invasive because warm seasons are so much shorter. It can get to 0F
and below in K-town and it doesn't actually kill it entirely; simply
freezes back. I don't know what it's overwinter limits actually are
though...
--
dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
: Lew Hodgett wrote:
:>
:> The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
:>
:> There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
: ...
: I, personally, wouldn't put much faith in any CR testing...
: There are, indeed, a multitude of grades and the hardness of bamboo in
: actual testing varies from softer than some pine to harder than hard
: maple (nominal values, of course, all woods have inherent variability in
: properties within the same species far more than most other materials).
: There have been quite a number of articles in both FHB and FWW over the
: last several years on bamboo; most (but not all iirc) of the flooring
: applications in FHB as one would expect while the FWW concentrated more
: on its use as cabinetwood, counters, etc. Anyway, the upshot of the
: evaluations I recall ottomh include that how the flooring is
: manufactured from either end or side grain and very importantly, the
: actual species used makes a big difference. As well, the caramelizing
: process used to impart color has a large negative impact on the hardness
: of all types, again affecting some more pronouncedly than others. The
: darker the coloring, the more susceptible the end product to denting, etc.
To add to this excellent post, I planned to use bamboo flooring in
my home office, but was dissuaded when I fond that every sample I could
lay my hands on dented very easily, and it's not recommended for a dry climate.
I have gone with bamboo-look laminate, which is cheaper, harder, and very nice
looking.
-- Andy Barss
dpb wrote:
...
> Always wondered whether any of it did survive or not. I'd guess if it
> once got established it could manage to hang on but wouldn't be nearly
> so invasive because warm seasons are so much shorter. It can get to 0F
> and below in K-town and it doesn't actually kill it entirely; simply
> freezes back. I don't know what it's overwinter limits actually are
> though...
...
I didn't find any detailed horticultural works in a quick search but did
find there's been a recent outbreak in Oregon along a roadside and
reports it's as far north as "the northeast" in some other accounts.
W/ it's ability to root to 3-ft deep or more, I can imagine if it did
get a start that while it would take longer in the spring for it to
finally get going again it could manage to survive.
That was something we observed in TN; after very cold winters it would
be later in the spring before it greened up--seems to come back from the
roots where it freezes hard over winter. Kinda' like the wisteria; it
may _look_ dead until late spring but when it finally pops you'll be
digging out from under the rest of the summer until frost. :(
--
krw wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:22:18 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
...
>> : ... very importantly, the
>> : actual species used makes a big difference. As well, the caramelizing
>> : process used to impart color has a large negative impact on the hardness
>> : of all types, again affecting some more pronouncedly than others. The
>> : darker the coloring, the more susceptible the end product to denting, etc.
>
> Again, my sample size is two but I've found the opposite. The "medium
> caramelized" I installed in VT was much harder than the "light
> caramelized" I have here. Maybe the vertical laminations are harder
> than the horizontal. Dunno. I'd do the stuff I did on my last house
> again. This stuff, not so much.
I wondered how long it would take...and surprised it took this long! :)
The key in the above on caramelization and hardness that was implied but
not specifically stated is that the effect is within the same species
and grain orientation, not strictly monotonic across all
species/grades/manufacturing.
--
krw wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:53:12 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
...
>> I wondered how long it would take...and surprised it took this long! :)
>
> Long?
It was five (5) days since I posted the comments on bamboo that included
the caramelization issue remarked upon... :)
I had expected after I reread the post it would be about 5 minutes, tops...
>> The key in the above on caramelization and hardness that was implied but
>> not specifically stated is that the effect is within the same species
>> and grain orientation, not strictly monotonic across all
>> species/grades/manufacturing.
>
> So it's a crap shoot? I bought pretty cheap bamboo, since I was
> planning on selling the house in a couple of years. I went with
> bamboo mainly because it looked good and was cheaper than replacing
> the vinyl. It worked. I managed to sell the house at the end of '07.
Pretty much...the summary articles in FWW and FHB (and the data on
manufacturers' organization website confirm) there's such a wide
variation in basic properties between the various species and
manufacturing processes used it's only looking at specific test data for
a specific product that makes any sense.
Price isn't necessarily that much of a guide to the hardness in
particular; it seems w/ bamboo flooring products more in other areas
such as the orientation, finish durability, variability within product,
etc., ...
--
--
krw wrote:
...
> If you can trust any tests the manufacturer or retailer post.
The bulk of the data in the FHB/FWW articles on bamboo characteristics
itself came from USFS or similar sources...otoh, if the product
manufacturers' trade associations are fronting bogus data, then there's
little one can find to use on any product w/o testing it oneself.
>> Price isn't necessarily that much of a guide to the hardness in
>> particular; it seems w/ bamboo flooring products more in other areas
>> such as the orientation, finish durability, variability within product,
>> etc., ...
>
> The finish quality is an obvious place for differences. The
> difference in the substrate is a bit surprising, though. I guess wood
> isn't much different.
That's the whole point -- wood and bamboo are nothing alike--their
structures and properties are vastly different. Add to that there are a
"veritable plethora" of species of bamboo which have properties that
range from softer than some pines to harder than sugar maple, to
consider that just because a flooring material is made from _some_
species of bamboo is essentially meaningless.
--
dpb wrote:
> dpb wrote:
> ...
>> Always wondered whether any of it did survive or not. I'd guess if it
>> once got established it could manage to hang on but wouldn't be nearly
>> so invasive because warm seasons are so much shorter. It can get to
>> 0F and below in K-town and it doesn't actually kill it entirely;
>> simply freezes back. I don't know what it's overwinter limits
>> actually are though...
> ...
>
> I didn't find any detailed horticultural works in a quick search but did
> find there's been a recent outbreak in Oregon along a roadside and
> reports it's as far north as "the northeast" in some other accounts.
>
> W/ it's ability to root to 3-ft deep or more, I can imagine if it did
> get a start that while it would take longer in the spring for it to
> finally get going again it could manage to survive.
The frost line in Pittsburgh is 3-ft. I doubt it gets down that far
very often, but still, that stuff wouldn't likely make it through for
long or it would already be here, considering you were nice enough to
provide us with a sample:-) As far as the north is concerned, there is
a fairly large difference in coastal north vs inland north. The ocean
has a pretty good moderating effect I think.
> That was something we observed in TN; after very cold winters it would
> be later in the spring before it greened up--seems to come back from the
> roots where it freezes hard over winter. Kinda' like the wisteria; it
> may _look_ dead until late spring but when it finally pops you'll be
> digging out from under the rest of the summer until frost. :(
I think we have wisteria, not sure, I'm no plant guy... Plenty of Oak,
Maple, Cherry and Walnut however, and thats what its all about:-)
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:22:18 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
<[email protected]> wrote:
>dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>: Lew Hodgett wrote:
>:>
>:> The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
>:>
>:> There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
>: ...
>
>: I, personally, wouldn't put much faith in any CR testing...
>
>: There are, indeed, a multitude of grades and the hardness of bamboo in
>: actual testing varies from softer than some pine to harder than hard
>: maple (nominal values, of course, all woods have inherent variability in
>: properties within the same species far more than most other materials).
>
>: There have been quite a number of articles in both FHB and FWW over the
>: last several years on bamboo; most (but not all iirc) of the flooring
>: applications in FHB as one would expect while the FWW concentrated more
>: on its use as cabinetwood, counters, etc. Anyway, the upshot of the
>: evaluations I recall ottomh include that how the flooring is
>: manufactured from either end or side grain and very importantly, the
>: actual species used makes a big difference. As well, the caramelizing
>: process used to impart color has a large negative impact on the hardness
>: of all types, again affecting some more pronouncedly than others. The
>: darker the coloring, the more susceptible the end product to denting, etc.
Again, my sample size is two but I've found the opposite. The "medium
caramelized" I installed in VT was much harder than the "light
caramelized" I have here. Maybe the vertical laminations are harder
than the horizontal. Dunno. I'd do the stuff I did on my last house
again. This stuff, not so much.
>To add to this excellent post, I planned to use bamboo flooring in
>my home office, but was dissuaded when I fond that every sample I could
>lay my hands on dented very easily, and it's not recommended for a dry climate.
I had no problems with it in VT. I would have loved to put it in the
bedrooms, but was moving so just threw down some new carpeting.
>I have gone with bamboo-look laminate, which is cheaper, harder, and very nice
>looking.
More information?
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:59:45 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"krw" wrote:
>
>> Sure. I put it down in my last house, in the kitchen, dining room,
>> and hallways. I used the vertical stacked medium carbonized
>> version.
>> I liked it a lot, except it looked "too perfect". Kinda like a
>> bowling alley. It seemed to wear well, though it does dent. We
>> also
>> have it in this house, though in a horizontal light carbonized, in
>> the
>> great room, hall, and dining room. This stuff is clearly different
>> than what we used in the previous house. It scratches badly (it's a
>> new house and was badly scratched before we moved in) and has faded
>> a
>> lot. It's clear looking at the line under the door to a closet.
>>
>> Bottom line - I liked it a lot in our previous house. I don't like
>> this stuff at all. Why the difference? - no clue, but I'd probably
>> rip this stuff out and do wood if it weren't glued down (slab
>> construction).
>
>Thank you for the input.
>
>The stuff C/R tested didn't dent or scratch.
It *does* dent, like anything else. It may be harder than maple, but
it certainly *does* dent. Whack it with a hammer... ;-)
>There must be several grades of bamboo flooring.
I think there are. The stuff I put down in my previous house was
pretty cheap (<$2.50/sq.ft. IIRC). I bought it over the Internet and
had it shipped (pretty cheap, amazingly). Of course, the crap they
put in this house may have even been cheaper.
If you go with bamboo, I'd make sure to look at the vertical laminated
version before you buy. I like it a *lot* better than the more common
horizontal lamination.