plastic hf toolboxes

Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Mon, 30 Apr 2018
09:27:49 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>anyone tried any of the plastic hf toolboxes
>
>uv stability is important and is disappointing to discover down the road to
>be not as advertised
>
>maybe i should just use some natural material and make one
>
>hmm maybe wood but usually the wood toolbox is heavier than the
>plastic ones
>
>as always there are tradeofsf
>
>lightweight and uv stability matters

One option is paint.

Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>> One option is paint.
>> >>>good idea
>> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>> >> Then don't get that model.
>> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
>> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>> >>them in a year and four months)
>> >
>> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>>
>> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>> lasted years.
>> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>> "lasting" a long time.
>>
>> >I can't imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>
>> It's a "sermon illustration".
>>
>> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
>
>What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?

Just what I said - if you alternate the use of a pair of shoes,
those who shoes will last longer than if you bought 1 pair, wore them
daily, and then bought a second pair and wore it daily. You will get
more "steps per shoe" than if you wore the same pair every day.
I'm also remembering that the US Army figures a pair of combat
boots, in combat, last something like 6 weeks, but a pair "in
garrison" will last for over a year.
>
>They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
>of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
>compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.

Apparently, if you let a pair of shoes dry out (by wearing them
every other day) they last longer than if you wear them every day.
Thus, two pair of shoes, alternated, will get more steps per shoe,
than if you wear them day after day.
>
>The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
>that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.

Tell me about it. When I went to replace those Durashocks they
were "New and Improved"; meaning that the size I'd worn - no longer
fit.

Fnord - don't get me started on the things I wish I could still
get.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:40:43 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 4 May 2018 17:48:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> >> >> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
> >> >> rec.woodworking the following:
> >> >> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> >> >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
> >> >> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
> >> >> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
> >> >> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> One option is paint.
> >> >> >>>good idea
> >> >> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
> >> >> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Then don't get that model.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
> >> >> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
> >> >> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
> >> >> >>them in a year and four months)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
> >> >>
> >> >> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
> >> >> lasted years.
> >> >> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
> >> >> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
> >> >> "lasting" a long time.
> >> >>
> >> >> >I can't
> >> >> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's a "sermon illustration".
> >> >>
> >> >> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
> >> >> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
> >> >> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
> >> >
> >> >What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
> >> >
> >> >They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
> >> >of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
> >> >compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
> >> >
> >> >The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
> >> >that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
> >> >
> >> Not really. Alternating shoes will allow them to dry completely,
> >> between wearings.
> >
> >Not counting walking through puddles, how long does it take for a pair of shoes to dry out
> >after a "normal" wearing session?
>
> It depends on a lot of factors but it does take a while. There isn't
> a lot of air flow inside a shoe.

"A while" doesn't help move the discussion forward.

When I was project manager for a Fortune 500 company, I learned very quickly
that "not too long", "not much", "fairly soon", etc. were not answers that were
going to move your career along. People can't make decisions or plan budgets
with nebulous answers like that.

If "a while" means it takes 18 hours for a pair of work shoes to dry, then
maybe a person shouldn't wear them 2 days in a row. However, if "a while" is
8 - 10 hours, then they'll most likely be dry by the time you need them the
next day.

How long is "a while" when it come to shoes drying?

On Fri, 4 May 2018 17:48:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> >> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>> >> rec.woodworking the following:
>> >> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>> >> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>> >> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>> >> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> One option is paint.
>> >> >>>good idea
>> >> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>> >> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Then don't get that model.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>> >> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>> >> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>> >> >>them in a year and four months)
>> >> >
>> >> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>> >>
>> >> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>> >> lasted years.
>> >> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>> >> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>> >> "lasting" a long time.
>> >>
>> >> >I can't
>> >> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>> >>
>> >> It's a "sermon illustration".
>> >>
>> >> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>> >> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>> >> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
>> >
>> >What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
>> >
>> >They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
>> >of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
>> >compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
>> >
>> >The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
>> >that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
>> >
>> Not really. Alternating shoes will allow them to dry completely,
>> between wearings.
>
>Not counting walking through puddles, how long does it take for a pair of shoes to dry out
>after a "normal" wearing session?

It depends on a lot of factors but it does take a while. There isn't
a lot of air flow inside a shoe.

On Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> One option is paint.
>> >>>good idea
>> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>> >>
>> >> Then don't get that model.
>> >>>
>> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>> >>>
>> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
>> >>>
>> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>> >>
>> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>> >>them in a year and four months)
>> >
>> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>>
>> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>> lasted years.
>> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>> "lasting" a long time.
>>
>> >I can't
>> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>
>> It's a "sermon illustration".
>>
>> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
>
>What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
>
>They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
>of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
>compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
>
>The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
>that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
>
Not really. Alternating shoes will allow them to dry completely,
between wearings.

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 12:07:02 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
> pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > One option is paint.
>
> good idea
> maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
> but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>
> > Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>
>
> depends on the recipient and the use

Yeah. Maybe they'll want to use it as a jewelry box.

>
> better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement

Yeah. Like a well made game board.

On Thu, 03 May 2018 20:55:20 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Then don't get that model.
>
>EC = Eeyore

<slap> Now everything make sense!

On 5/4/2018 12:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/4/18 11:34 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 5/4/2018 8:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for
>>> opportunities to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my
>>> untra-wide feet, but I'm told they will stretch out over time ...
>>
>> Your local shoe repair can stretch those leather shoes for you overnight.
>
> 1.  It's funny that you think those places still exist.  :-p

Not as many, but there are still a couple around here.
If you can't find one, you could try one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=shoe+stretcher

> 2.  I already spent $150 bucks on them, I should have to spend more.

I'm sure you meant you should NOT have to spend more. I don't disagree,
but there are all sorts of things people have to do that they should not
have to. The fact is, you bought shoes that don't fit. You now have
what is known as a sunk cost.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/sunk-cost.html
https://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/how-the-sunk-cost-fallacy-makes-you-act-stupid.html
You can do what you want, I just suggested a way to get them to fit.

> 3.  The $20 shoes already fit great.

That's great. I also buy most of my shoes at PayLess or KMart rather
than a high-end men's store.
Meanwhile you have two pair of shoes that don't fit you so well, but
that probably could be made to fit cheaper than buying even a cheap new
pair. If you can't or won't wear them, perhaps consider giving them to
a local homeless shelter so someone CAN get some good out of them.

On 5/4/2018 1:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/4/18 10:56 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/4/2018 9:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 5/3/18 9:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>>>> 09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking  the following:
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>>>> pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     One option is paint.
>>>>>> good idea
>>>>>> maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>>>> but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>>>
>>>>>     Then don't get that model.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>>>
>>>>>> better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>>>
>>>>>     Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>>>> them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>>>> them in a year.  (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>>>> them in a year and four months)
>>>>
>>>> Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.  I can't
>>>> imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Personally, I've just gone through this.
>>> I bought a couple pairs of Mephisto shoes with the intention of
>>> wearing them to work in.  One for outside and one for inside clients'
>>> homes.
>>>
>>> Both pairs MSRP is up near or over $400.  We have an outlet store
>>> near us so I think I paid somewhere around $150-175 for each.  These
>>> are hand-made shoes made from real leather and come with all the
>>> promises the commissioned salesperson can muster.  They treat you
>>> like royalty, compliment you, tell you how great every shoe you try
>>> on looks and stop just short of offering you a foot massage.  You get
>>> to sit in big, comfy chairs while smooth jazz plays softly in a room
>>> that smells like lavender and rose pedals.  And there's complimentary
>>> cold beverages.
>>>
>>> There's also an Academy Sports near us that sells a brand named,
>>> Magellan, made in Asian factories.  I got 2 pairs, for under 40
>>> bucks. I'm sure they're made with near-slave labor with materials
>>> that would go up in flames quicker than a match.  In order to find a
>>> pair in the clearance section, you have to wade through fat rednecks,
>>> entitled soccer moms, and immigrants who smell like an onion bagel
>>> factory, stepping over baby carriers and various misplaced sports
>>> balls in the hopes of finding one of the only three benches in the
>>> entire store to sit on while you try on your shoes.  In the meantime,
>>> they're blaring bro-county songs through distorting speakers, Bubba
>>> just crop dusted me as he surely sharted himself walking past, bratty
>>> kids are crying, screaming, running around, tripping on you and your
>>> shoe boxes, and the minimum-wage earning salespersons act like you're
>>> ruining their day by asking them a question.  There's high/low pair
>>> of drinking fountains in the back with a father/son pair sucking on
>>> the nozzles like calves on teats.
>>>
>>> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for
>>> opportunities to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my
>>> untra-wide feet, but I'm told they will stretch out over time and
>>> feel better month-by-month and the memory foam will slowly conform to
>>> my feet. They take a bit of effort to take on and off.  I'm nervous
>>> when I wear them because I'm afraid of stepping in something gross or
>>> damaging such expensive shoes.
>>>
>>> The 2 pairs of $20 shoes fit like a glove the first time I tried them
>>> on.  They are super-light, the memory form feels great, already.
>>> They slip on and off without using my hands.  I have a pair that
>>> still feels great after about 4 years but I finally had to toss them
>>> because I ran a utility knife through the toe and got some roofing
>>> tar on one that is really tough to get off.  But you know what?
>>> There's another pair ready and waiting for me for $20 down at Academy.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I pretty much only wear Timberland water proof hiking shoes and
>> usually pay $100~$130.  I get 3~5 years use out of these with everyday
>> wear. I only wear an older pair for yard work.
>
> I like those and almost bought a pair.
> I think I will end up buying a pair soon.  IIRC, they fit and felt great.
>
>
Yes, the feel good and basically need no break-in.

On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
> rec.woodworking the following:
> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> One option is paint.
> >>>good idea
> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
> >>
> >> Then don't get that model.
> >>>
> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
> >>>
> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
> >>>
> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
> >>
> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
> >>them in a year and four months)
> >
> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>
> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
> lasted years.
> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
> "lasting" a long time.
>
> >I can't
> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>
> It's a "sermon illustration".
>
> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
> 'die', and then buy a second pair.

What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?

They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.

The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> >> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
> >> rec.woodworking the following:
> >> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
> >> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
> >> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
> >> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> One option is paint.
> >> >>>good idea
> >> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
> >> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
> >> >>
> >> >> Then don't get that model.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
> >> >>>
> >> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
> >> >>
> >> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
> >> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
> >> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
> >> >>them in a year and four months)
> >> >
> >> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
> >>
> >> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
> >> lasted years.
> >> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
> >> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
> >> "lasting" a long time.
> >>
> >> >I can't
> >> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
> >>
> >> It's a "sermon illustration".
> >>
> >> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
> >> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
> >> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
> >
> >What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
> >
> >They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
> >of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
> >compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
> >
> >The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
> >that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
> >
> Not really. Alternating shoes will allow them to dry completely,
> between wearings.

Not counting walking through puddles, how long does it take for a pair of shoes to dry out
after a "normal" wearing session?

On Fri, 4 May 2018 14:23:36 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/4/18 1:56 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>> Meanwhile you have two pair of shoes that don't fit you so well, but
>> that probably could be made to fit cheaper than buying even a cheap new
>> pair.  If you can't or won't wear them, perhaps consider giving them to
>> a local homeless shelter so someone CAN get some good out of them.
>>
>
>I can see it now...
>"Man, can you spare a few bucks for me to get a burger?"
>"Dude, you're wearing $300 Mephisto shoes, you don't need my money."
>
>:-)
>
>(Just a joke, I used to work at a homeless shelter.)

He spent $300 on a pair of shoes. Maybe he does need money (now).

On Fri, 4 May 2018 10:34:24 -0600, Just Wondering
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/4/2018 8:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for opportunities
>> to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my untra-wide feet, but I'm
>> told they will stretch out over time ...
>
>Your local shoe repair can stretch those leather shoes for you overnight.


for the trouble toe or bunion ...
http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?p=70649&cat=2,51676

-MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:
>On 5/3/18 9:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>
>The 2 pairs of $20 shoes fit like a glove the first time I tried them
>on. They are super-light, the memory form feels great, already. They
>slip on and off without using my hands. I have a pair that still feels
>great after about 4 years but I finally had to toss them because I ran a
>utility knife through the toe and got some roofing tar on one that is
>really tough to get off. But you know what? There's another pair ready
>and waiting for me for $20 down at Academy.


Hear! Hear!

I get my shoes at costco, generally for about $20 per pair. The last
purchase was two pairs of Nike runners for $25/ea. Light-weight,
comfortable, well ventilated, nice arch support and durable.

[email protected] on Fri, 04 May 2018 19:43:15 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thu, 03 May 2018 19:54:56 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>>>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One option is paint.
>>>>>good idea
>>>>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>>
>>>> Then don't get that model.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>>
>>>>>depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>>
>>>>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>>
>>>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>>>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>>>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>>>them in a year and four months)
>>>
>>>Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>>
>> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>>lasted years.
>> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>>I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>>"lasting" a long time.
>>
>>>I can't
>>>imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>
>> It's a "sermon illustration".
>>
>> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>>they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>>'die', and then buy a second pair.
>
>Two pair of ill-fitting shoes don't fit big feet any better than one
>pair of ill-fitting shoes and two cheap pairs of shoes don't support
>my feet any better than one cheap POS.
>
>
>I have several pairs, actually. Every one the same size and model (in
>different colors) - New Balance 928 size 12-6E in black, white (gym
>only), and gray (brown soon to come). The older pairs become work
>shoes. I usually pay between $125 and $150 a pair. I don't think
>I've worn anything else (other than boots) in over a decade.
>>
>> Sometimes, your choice is: something cheap - now, or something
>>more expensive later. (e.g., Harbor Freight or Snap-On)
>
>Or buy something expensive now and be able to walk later. I _never_
>scrimp on shoes. They're too important.

Yep.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On 5/4/2018 8:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for opportunities
> to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my untra-wide feet, but I'm
> told they will stretch out over time ...

Your local shoe repair can stretch those leather shoes for you overnight.

Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Fri, 4 May 2018
20:18:35 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700
>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> So, you can buy a cheap plastic toolbox, and keep it out of
>> the sun, and it will last a "long" time. Or buy a better but UV
>
>
>some cheap plastic ones are uv stable and maybe hf sells one
>
>and back to the op we go

Now that's just weird. :-)
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

[email protected] on Fri, 04 May 2018 19:43:15 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>
>> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>>lasted years.
>> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>>I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>>"lasting" a long time.
>>
>>>I can't
>>>imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>
>> It's a "sermon illustration".
>>
>> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>>they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>>'die', and then buy a second pair.
>
>Two pair of ill-fitting shoes don't fit big feet any better than one
>pair of ill-fitting shoes and two cheap pairs of shoes don't support
>my feet any better than one cheap POS.

There is no cost savings in buying things which don't work - no
matter how cheap they might be.
You can't make scrap fast enough to show a profit, you can't
afford to buy even one pair of shoes you don't wear, no matter how
long they last, or cheap they were.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Then don't get that model.

EC = Eeyore

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> on Fri, 4 May 2018 17:48:20 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> >> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>> >> rec.woodworking the following:
>> >> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>> >> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>> >> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>> >> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> One option is paint.
>> >> >>>good idea
>> >> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>> >> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Then don't get that model.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>> >> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>> >> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>> >> >>them in a year and four months)
>> >> >
>> >> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>> >>
>> >> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>> >> lasted years.
>> >> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>> >> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>> >> "lasting" a long time.
>> >>
>> >> >I can't
>> >> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>> >>
>> >> It's a "sermon illustration".
>> >>
>> >> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>> >> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>> >> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
>> >
>> >What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
>> >
>> >They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
>> >of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
>> >compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
>> >
>> >The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
>> >that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
>> >
>> Not really. Alternating shoes will allow them to dry completely,
>> between wearings.
>
>Not counting walking through puddles, how long does it take for a pair of shoes to dry out
>after a "normal" wearing session?

Depends on your home climate. They'll dry faster in Arizona than
in Florida. OTOH, in Western Washington, especially in the winter,
they may never really get dry. Yakima - you can hear them drying out.
Which is one reason why you might as well have two pair and give
them a days and two nights to dry out.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:

> One option is paint.

good idea
maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish

> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.


depends on the recipient and the use

better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement

On 5/3/18 9:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>> 09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>> pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One option is paint.
>>> good idea
>>> maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>> but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>
>> Then don't get that model.
>>>
>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>
>>> depends on the recipient and the use
>>>
>>> better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>
>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>> them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>> them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>> them in a year and four months)
>
> Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year. I can't
> imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>

Personally, I've just gone through this.
I bought a couple pairs of Mephisto shoes with the intention of wearing
them to work in. One for outside and one for inside clients' homes.

Both pairs MSRP is up near or over $400. We have an outlet store near
us so I think I paid somewhere around $150-175 for each. These are
hand-made shoes made from real leather and come with all the promises
the commissioned salesperson can muster. They treat you like royalty,
compliment you, tell you how great every shoe you try on looks and stop
just short of offering you a foot massage. You get to sit in big, comfy
chairs while smooth jazz plays softly in a room that smells like
lavender and rose pedals. And there's complimentary cold beverages.

There's also an Academy Sports near us that sells a brand named,
Magellan, made in Asian factories. I got 2 pairs, for under 40 bucks.
I'm sure they're made with near-slave labor with materials that would go
up in flames quicker than a match. In order to find a pair in the
clearance section, you have to wade through fat rednecks, entitled
soccer moms, and immigrants who smell like an onion bagel factory,
stepping over baby carriers and various misplaced sports balls in the
hopes of finding one of the only three benches in the entire store to
sit on while you try on your shoes. In the meantime, they're blaring
bro-county songs through distorting speakers, Bubba just crop dusted me
as he surely sharted himself walking past, bratty kids are crying,
screaming, running around, tripping on you and your shoe boxes, and the
minimum-wage earning salespersons act like you're ruining their day by
asking them a question. There's high/low pair of drinking fountains in
the back with a father/son pair sucking on the nozzles like calves on
teats.

The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for opportunities
to be worn. They are very heavy, don't fit my untra-wide feet, but I'm
told they will stretch out over time and feel better month-by-month and
the memory foam will slowly conform to my feet. They take a bit of
effort to take on and off. I'm nervous when I wear them because I'm
afraid of stepping in something gross or damaging such expensive shoes.

The 2 pairs of $20 shoes fit like a glove the first time I tried them
on. They are super-light, the memory form feels great, already. They
slip on and off without using my hands. I have a pair that still feels
great after about 4 years but I finally had to toss them because I ran a
utility knife through the toe and got some roofing tar on one that is
really tough to get off. But you know what? There's another pair ready
and waiting for me for $20 down at Academy.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 5/4/18 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>> rec.woodworking the following:
>>> On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>>> 09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>>> pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One option is paint.
>>>>> good idea
>>>>> maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>>> but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>>
>>>> Then don't get that model.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>>
>>>>> depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>>
>>>>> better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>>
>>>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>>> them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>>> them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>>> them in a year and four months)
>>>
>>> Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>>
>> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>> lasted years.
>> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>> "lasting" a long time.
>>
>>> I can't
>>> imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>
>> It's a "sermon illustration".
>>
>> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
>
> What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
>
> They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
> of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
> compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
>
> The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
> that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
>

There's a running shoe I love (I don't jog).
Last time I found them on sale, I bought 2 pairs for that very reason.
I don't want to try to find them again when I need a new pair, only to
find that they changed something or don't make them anymore.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 5/4/18 11:34 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 5/4/2018 8:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for opportunities
>> to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my untra-wide feet, but
>> I'm told they will stretch out over time ...
>
> Your local shoe repair can stretch those leather shoes for you overnight.

1. It's funny that you think those places still exist. :-p
2. I already spent $150 bucks on them, I should have to spend more.
3. The $20 shoes already fit great.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 5/4/18 10:56 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/4/2018 9:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 5/3/18 9:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>>> 09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking  the following:
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>>> pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>     One option is paint.
>>>>> good idea
>>>>> maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>>> but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>>
>>>>     Then don't get that model.
>>>>>
>>>>>>     Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>>
>>>>> depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>>
>>>>> better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>>
>>>>     Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>>> them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>>> them in a year.  (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>>> them in a year and four months)
>>>
>>> Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.  I can't
>>> imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>>
>>
>> Personally, I've just gone through this.
>> I bought a couple pairs of Mephisto shoes with the intention of
>> wearing them to work in.  One for outside and one for inside clients'
>> homes.
>>
>> Both pairs MSRP is up near or over $400.  We have an outlet store near
>> us so I think I paid somewhere around $150-175 for each.  These are
>> hand-made shoes made from real leather and come with all the promises
>> the commissioned salesperson can muster.  They treat you like royalty,
>> compliment you, tell you how great every shoe you try on looks and
>> stop just short of offering you a foot massage.  You get to sit in
>> big, comfy chairs while smooth jazz plays softly in a room that smells
>> like lavender and rose pedals.  And there's complimentary cold beverages.
>>
>> There's also an Academy Sports near us that sells a brand named,
>> Magellan, made in Asian factories.  I got 2 pairs, for under 40 bucks.
>> I'm sure they're made with near-slave labor with materials that would
>> go up in flames quicker than a match.  In order to find a pair in the
>> clearance section, you have to wade through fat rednecks, entitled
>> soccer moms, and immigrants who smell like an onion bagel factory,
>> stepping over baby carriers and various misplaced sports balls in the
>> hopes of finding one of the only three benches in the entire store to
>> sit on while you try on your shoes.  In the meantime, they're blaring
>> bro-county songs through distorting speakers, Bubba just crop dusted
>> me as he surely sharted himself walking past, bratty kids are crying,
>> screaming, running around, tripping on you and your shoe boxes, and
>> the minimum-wage earning salespersons act like you're ruining their
>> day by asking them a question.  There's high/low pair of drinking
>> fountains in the back with a father/son pair sucking on the nozzles
>> like calves on teats.
>>
>> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for opportunities
>> to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my untra-wide feet, but
>> I'm told they will stretch out over time and feel better
>> month-by-month and the memory foam will slowly conform to my feet.
>> They take a bit of effort to take on and off.  I'm nervous when I wear
>> them because I'm afraid of stepping in something gross or damaging
>> such expensive shoes.
>>
>> The 2 pairs of $20 shoes fit like a glove the first time I tried them
>> on.  They are super-light, the memory form feels great, already.  They
>> slip on and off without using my hands.  I have a pair that still
>> feels great after about 4 years but I finally had to toss them because
>> I ran a utility knife through the toe and got some roofing tar on one
>> that is really tough to get off.  But you know what?  There's another
>> pair ready and waiting for me for $20 down at Academy.
>>
>>
>
> I pretty much only wear Timberland water proof hiking shoes and usually
> pay $100~$130.  I get 3~5 years use out of these with everyday wear. I
> only wear an older pair for yard work.

I like those and almost bought a pair.
I think I will end up buying a pair soon. IIRC, they fit and felt great.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 5/4/18 1:56 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
> Meanwhile you have two pair of shoes that don't fit you so well, but
> that probably could be made to fit cheaper than buying even a cheap new
> pair.  If you can't or won't wear them, perhaps consider giving them to
> a local homeless shelter so someone CAN get some good out of them.
>

I can see it now...
"Man, can you spare a few bucks for me to get a burger?"
"Dude, you're wearing $300 Mephisto shoes, you don't need my money."

:-)

(Just a joke, I used to work at a homeless shelter.)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700
pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:

> So, you can buy a cheap plastic toolbox, and keep it out of
> the sun, and it will last a "long" time. Or buy a better but UV


some cheap plastic ones are uv stable and maybe hf sells one

and back to the op we go

On 5/5/18 9:44 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/4/2018 1:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 5/4/18 10:56 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 5/4/2018 9:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 5/3/18 9:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May
>>>>>> 2018 09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the
>>>>>> following:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700 pyotr filipivich
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One option is paint.
>>>>>>> good idea maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do but
>>>>>>> even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a
>>>>>>> finish
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then don't get that model.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the
>>>>>>>> road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> better for it to last long and not need frequent
>>>>>>> replacement
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and
>>>>>> replace them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair
>>>>>> for $35 and replace them in a year. (Or, buy two pair,
>>>>>> alternate them daily, and replace them in a year and four
>>>>>> months)
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>>>>> I can't imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my
>>>>> dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I've just gone through this. I bought a couple
>>>> pairs of Mephisto shoes with the intention of wearing them to
>>>> work in. One for outside and one for inside clients' homes.
>>>>
>>>> Both pairs MSRP is up near or over $400. We have an outlet
>>>> store near us so I think I paid somewhere around $150-175 for
>>>> each. These are hand-made shoes made from real leather and
>>>> come with all the promises the commissioned salesperson can
>>>> muster. They treat you like royalty, compliment you, tell you
>>>> how great every shoe you try on looks and stop just short of
>>>> offering you a foot massage. You get to sit in big, comfy
>>>> chairs while smooth jazz plays softly in a room that smells
>>>> like lavender and rose pedals. And there's complimentary cold
>>>> beverages.
>>>>
>>>> There's also an Academy Sports near us that sells a brand
>>>> named, Magellan, made in Asian factories. I got 2 pairs, for
>>>> under 40 bucks. I'm sure they're made with near-slave labor
>>>> with materials that would go up in flames quicker than a match.
>>>> In order to find a pair in the clearance section, you have to
>>>> wade through fat rednecks, entitled soccer moms, and immigrants
>>>> who smell like an onion bagel factory, stepping over baby
>>>> carriers and various misplaced sports balls in the hopes of
>>>> finding one of the only three benches in the entire store to
>>>> sit on while you try on your shoes. In the meantime, they're
>>>> blaring bro-county songs through distorting speakers, Bubba
>>>> just crop dusted me as he surely sharted himself walking past,
>>>> bratty kids are crying, screaming, running around, tripping on
>>>> you and your shoe boxes, and the minimum-wage earning
>>>> salespersons act like you're ruining their day by asking them a
>>>> question. There's high/low pair of drinking fountains in the
>>>> back with a father/son pair sucking on the nozzles like calves
>>>> on teats.
>>>>
>>>> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for
>>>> opportunities to be worn. They are very heavy, don't fit my
>>>> untra-wide feet, but I'm told they will stretch out over time
>>>> and feel better month-by-month and the memory foam will slowly
>>>> conform to my feet. They take a bit of effort to take on and
>>>> off. I'm nervous when I wear them because I'm afraid of
>>>> stepping in something gross or damaging such expensive shoes.
>>>>
>>>> The 2 pairs of $20 shoes fit like a glove the first time I
>>>> tried them on. They are super-light, the memory form feels
>>>> great, already. They slip on and off without using my hands. I
>>>> have a pair that still feels great after about 4 years but I
>>>> finally had to toss them because I ran a utility knife through
>>>> the toe and got some roofing tar on one that is really tough to
>>>> get off. But you know what? There's another pair ready and
>>>> waiting for me for $20 down at Academy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I pretty much only wear Timberland water proof hiking shoes and
>>> usually pay $100~$130. I get 3~5 years use out of these with
>>> everyday wear. I only wear an older pair for yard work.
>>
>> I like those and almost bought a pair. I think I will end up buying
>> a pair soon. IIRC, they fit and felt great.
>>
>>
> Yes, the feel good and basically need no break-in.

That's how the Brooks shoes that I prefer feel.
They run about $130, new, at the runners' shoe store. When I first
bought them, I bought "last year's model" at about 40% off. The last
time I saw them on sale on-line, I bought 2 identical pairs.

I would never need another shoe to wear again, if I lived where there is
no winter. But they are running shoes, so most of them are mesh
material which makes them freezing in cold weather.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Fri, 04 May 2018 21:37:31 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] on Fri, 04 May 2018 19:43:15 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Thu, 03 May 2018 19:54:56 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>[email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>>>rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>>>>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>>>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One option is paint.
>>>>>>good idea
>>>>>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>>>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>>>
>>>>> Then don't get that model.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>>>
>>>>>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>>>
>>>>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>>>>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>>>>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>>>>them in a year and four months)
>>>>
>>>>Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>>>
>>> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>>>lasted years.
>>> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>>>I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>>>"lasting" a long time.
>>>
>>>>I can't
>>>>imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>>
>>> It's a "sermon illustration".
>>>
>>> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>>>they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>>>'die', and then buy a second pair.
>>
>>Two pair of ill-fitting shoes don't fit big feet any better than one
>>pair of ill-fitting shoes and two cheap pairs of shoes don't support
>>my feet any better than one cheap POS.
>>
>>
>>I have several pairs, actually. Every one the same size and model (in
>>different colors) - New Balance 928 size 12-6E in black, white (gym
>>only), and gray (brown soon to come). The older pairs become work
>>shoes. I usually pay between $125 and $150 a pair. I don't think
>>I've worn anything else (other than boots) in over a decade.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, your choice is: something cheap - now, or something
>>>more expensive later. (e.g., Harbor Freight or Snap-On)
>>
>>Or buy something expensive now and be able to walk later. I _never_
>>scrimp on shoes. They're too important.
>
> Yep.

Screwed up feet are forever.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 09:27:49 -0700, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>anyone tried any of the plastic hf toolboxes
>
>uv stability is important and is disappointing to discover down the road to
>be not as advertised
>
>maybe i should just use some natural material and make one
>
>hmm maybe wood but usually the wood toolbox is heavier than the
>plastic ones
>
>as always there are tradeofsf
>
>lightweight and uv stability matters
>

Well, lets see.........
There are canvas bags, aluminum boxes, steel, cardboard, titanium, HD
buckets of each of the above, there are a myriad of options.
But why does it matter if you are only storing thread in them?

Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> One option is paint.
>good idea
>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish

Then don't get that model.
>
>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>
>depends on the recipient and the use
>
>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement

Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
them in a year and four months)
Also, as a friend who was making backpacks pointed out: the army
bought a set of his, then tested them. They lasted 3 months. That is
"three months of constant daily hard usage in the field." Most
people are hard pressed to put any of their camping gear to use "in
the field" for 90 days. (That's 13 weeks of camping trips, at two
weeks the year, nope, your tent did not last "6 years", but 12 weeks
spread out over 6 years.)

So, you can buy a cheap plastic toolbox, and keep it out of the
sun, and it will last a "long" time. Or buy a better but UV resistant
plastic one, keep it out of the sun and it will last even longer.
Or get a non-plastic one - if you can find one.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

[email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
>On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One option is paint.
>>>good idea
>>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>
>> Then don't get that model.
>>>
>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>
>>>depends on the recipient and the use
>>>
>>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>
>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>them in a year and four months)
>
>Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.

I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
lasted years.
Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
"lasting" a long time.

>I can't
>imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.

It's a "sermon illustration".

The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
'die', and then buy a second pair.

Sometimes, your choice is: something cheap - now, or something
more expensive later. (e.g., Harbor Freight or Snap-On)



--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Thu, 03 May 2018 19:54:56 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One option is paint.
>>>>good idea
>>>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>
>>> Then don't get that model.
>>>>
>>>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>
>>>>depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>
>>>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>
>>> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>>them in a year and four months)
>>
>>Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>
> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>lasted years.
> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>"lasting" a long time.
>
>>I can't
>>imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>
> It's a "sermon illustration".
>
> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>'die', and then buy a second pair.

Two pair of ill-fitting shoes don't fit big feet any better than one
pair of ill-fitting shoes and two cheap pairs of shoes don't support
my feet any better than one cheap POS.


I have several pairs, actually. Every one the same size and model (in
different colors) - New Balance 928 size 12-6E in black, white (gym
only), and gray (brown soon to come). The older pairs become work
shoes. I usually pay between $125 and $150 a pair. I don't think
I've worn anything else (other than boots) in over a decade.
>
> Sometimes, your choice is: something cheap - now, or something
>more expensive later. (e.g., Harbor Freight or Snap-On)

Or buy something expensive now and be able to walk later. I _never_
scrimp on shoes. They're too important.

On 5/4/2018 9:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/3/18 9:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>>> 09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking  the following:
>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>>> pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     One option is paint.
>>>> good idea
>>>> maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>>> but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>>>
>>>     Then don't get that model.
>>>>
>>>>>     Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>>>
>>>> depends on the recipient and the use
>>>>
>>>> better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>>>
>>>     Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>>> them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>>> them in a year.  (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>>> them in a year and four months)
>>
>> Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.  I can't
>> imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>>
>
> Personally, I've just gone through this.
> I bought a couple pairs of Mephisto shoes with the intention of wearing
> them to work in.  One for outside and one for inside clients' homes.
>
> Both pairs MSRP is up near or over $400.  We have an outlet store near
> us so I think I paid somewhere around $150-175 for each.  These are
> hand-made shoes made from real leather and come with all the promises
> the commissioned salesperson can muster.  They treat you like royalty,
> compliment you, tell you how great every shoe you try on looks and stop
> just short of offering you a foot massage.  You get to sit in big, comfy
> chairs while smooth jazz plays softly in a room that smells like
> lavender and rose pedals.  And there's complimentary cold beverages.
>
> There's also an Academy Sports near us that sells a brand named,
> Magellan, made in Asian factories.  I got 2 pairs, for under 40 bucks.
> I'm sure they're made with near-slave labor with materials that would go
> up in flames quicker than a match.  In order to find a pair in the
> clearance section, you have to wade through fat rednecks, entitled
> soccer moms, and immigrants who smell like an onion bagel factory,
> stepping over baby carriers and various misplaced sports balls in the
> hopes of finding one of the only three benches in the entire store to
> sit on while you try on your shoes.  In the meantime, they're blaring
> bro-county songs through distorting speakers, Bubba just crop dusted me
> as he surely sharted himself walking past, bratty kids are crying,
> screaming, running around, tripping on you and your shoe boxes, and the
> minimum-wage earning salespersons act like you're ruining their day by
> asking them a question.  There's high/low pair of drinking fountains in
> the back with a father/son pair sucking on the nozzles like calves on
> teats.
>
> The 2 pairs of $150+ shoes I bought sit here waiting for opportunities
> to be worn.  They are very heavy, don't fit my untra-wide feet, but I'm
> told they will stretch out over time and feel better month-by-month and
> the memory foam will slowly conform to my feet.  They take a bit of
> effort to take on and off.  I'm nervous when I wear them because I'm
> afraid of stepping in something gross or damaging such expensive shoes.
>
> The 2 pairs of $20 shoes fit like a glove the first time I tried them
> on.  They are super-light, the memory form feels great, already.  They
> slip on and off without using my hands.  I have a pair that still feels
> great after about 4 years but I finally had to toss them because I ran a
> utility knife through the toe and got some roofing tar on one that is
> really tough to get off.  But you know what?  There's another pair ready
> and waiting for me for $20 down at Academy.
>
>

I pretty much only wear Timberland water proof hiking shoes and usually
pay $100~$130. I get 3~5 years use out of these with everyday wear. I
only wear an older pair for yard work.

On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> One option is paint.
>>good idea
>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>
> Then don't get that model.
>>
>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>>
>>depends on the recipient and the use
>>
>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>
> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>them in a year and four months)

Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year. I can't
imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 10:40:43 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 17:48:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 4 May 2018 03:59:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 10:53:01 PM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> >> >> [email protected] on Thu, 03 May 2018 22:41:25 -0400 typed in
>> >> >> rec.woodworking the following:
>> >> >> >On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:06:19 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>> >> >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>Electric Comet <[email protected]> on Thu, 3 May 2018
>> >> >> >>09:06:30 -0700 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>> >> >> >>>On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:33:30 -0700
>> >> >> >>>pyotr filipivich <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> One option is paint.
>> >> >> >>>good idea
>> >> >> >>>maybe even a uv stable clear coat would do
>> >> >> >>>but even that can backfire as some plastics will not take a finish
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Then don't get that model.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> Or just budget for another cheap replacement down the road.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>depends on the recipient and the use
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>better for it to last long and not need frequent replacement
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Like shoes - you can buy a pair at Walmart for 17.88 and replace
>> >> >> >>them in four months. Or you can buy a better pair for $35 and replace
>> >> >> >>them in a year. (Or, buy two pair, alternate them daily, and replace
>> >> >> >>them in a year and four months)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Or, you can pay $150 and be able to actually walk for a year.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I shelled out for two pairs of Durashocks, alternated them, they
>> >> >> lasted years.
>> >> >> Then the day I needed gym shoes - walmart had them for 17.88. As
>> >> >> I wear them for at most two hours three times a week - they are
>> >> >> "lasting" a long time.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I can't
>> >> >> >imagine a <$20 pair of shoes even fitting on my dogs.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's a "sermon illustration".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The reality is- if you buy two pair of shoes and alternate them,
>> >> >> they will last longer than if you buy one pair, wear them till they
>> >> >> 'die', and then buy a second pair.
>> >> >
>> >> >What your definition of "last longer"? Is it based on time or usage?
>> >> >
>> >> >They won't last any longer based on usage. They'll both wear out after the same number
>> >> >of steps, all else being equal. Alternate them or not, you'll double the number of steps
>> >> >compared to having only one pair, but neither one lasted "longer" from a usage perspective.
>> >> >
>> >> >The real advantages of buying 2 pairs are the cost (because of inflation) and the guarantee that
>> >> >that that exact shoe will be "available" for longer than it might be otherwise.
>> >> >
>> >> Not really. Alternating shoes will allow them to dry completely,
>> >> between wearings.
>> >
>> >Not counting walking through puddles, how long does it take for a pair of shoes to dry out
>> >after a "normal" wearing session?
>>
>> It depends on a lot of factors but it does take a while. There isn't
>> a lot of air flow inside a shoe.
>
>"A while" doesn't help move the discussion forward.
>
>When I was project manager for a Fortune 500 company, I learned very quickly
>that "not too long", "not much", "fairly soon", etc. were not answers that were
>going to move your career along. People can't make decisions or plan budgets
>with nebulous answers like that.
>
>If "a while" means it takes 18 hours for a pair of work shoes to dry, then
>maybe a person shouldn't wear them 2 days in a row. However, if "a while" is
>8 - 10 hours, then they'll most likely be dry by the time you need them the
>next day.
>
>How long is "a while" when it come to shoes drying?

Well, that would depend on the ambient humidity.