WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS 1

Sat, Dec 20, 2003, 11:55am (EST+5) [email protected]
(Expert=A0Woodworker) posts:
WORKING TIPS <snip>

I thought it was rather interesting that an air screwdriver was
recommended.. Expecially since there was no air compressor mentioned.
An airless paint sprayer was listed, but If I had an air compressor, I
would use an air spray gun.

JOAT
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might
as well dance.
- Unknown

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 19 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Nice advertisement for Harbor Freight there, bucko. If you were a tenth of
the "expert" you say you are, you wouldn't be recommending crap like that to
anyone, and especially on *this* newsgroup.

Have fun getting killfiled quickly. I can't wait to see what kind of advice
you give out in Part 2.

Jon E


"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.

> THE LIST:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866

Expert Woodworker proclaims:

>
>Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
>of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
>is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
>your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

And who proclaimed YOU an expert?

>THE LIST:
>
>$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
>$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
>$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
>$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
>$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
>$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
>$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
>$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
>$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866

88% BS. Some of the tools may be (and note the may) fine, but what the hell do
you want with Power Painter? For that matter, who needs an air screwdriver when
there is no compressor on the list. Why a glue gun when yellow glue is so
cheap: replace that with a clamp, and several more for the air screwdriver.

Where are the measuring tools?

Where are the layout tools?

>Keep in mind, this is not high end
>stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
>around the HF site, but I would go with the list above.

Check around one helluva lot more than the HF site. This stuff may not be
bottom of the barrel, but that's only because barrel bottoms have recently been
redefined to be lower than whale shit.

>They sell cheaper
>models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
>a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Resume, please.

Charlie Self

"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal."
Alexander Hamilton

http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html

I'm not going to judge your experience, but as a relative newbie I'll
make the following comments:

-- Buying cheap, inferior stuff is indeed a big mistake. I've learned
that first-hand. That's why I've been replacing the crap I bought in
the price range you suggest with high-midrange tools, like a Bosch
router and a Milwaukee circ saw. The $300 CAD Skil table saw is the
next to go. As others have said, a skilled woodworker can use cheap
tools because they have the experience to get around the severe
limitations of the tools. That's not me. I wouldn't recommend any of
the tools on your list to a newbie because I've worked with that
quality of tool *as a newbie* and the experience is frustrating. (Okay,
the $6.49 glue gun is probably a decent buy)

-- Coming into this community with an abrasive post (your third
paragraph) is guaranteed to raise the hackle of people who are indeed
skilled craftsmen who willing offer their knowledge and experience to
folks like me. I know what I'm talking about here... I think my first
or second post was an embarassing flame of Keith Bohn for which I was
taken to task in a private email by another senior member. I like to
think I learned that lesson.

-- This is an incredible community of people. Like any community, we
have a wide range of personalities. Stick around a while, take the
occasional chill pill, and share some of your 40 years experience with
us.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

In article <[email protected]>, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:

> There's also an excellent book by the Intermediate Technology people
> on how to teach woodworking in Africa, by teaching your class to make
> their own hand tools from wood and truck leafsprings.


Do you have a title for that one, Andy? Sounds interesting.

djb

--
There are no socks in my email address.

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
> with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
> hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
> were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
> the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.
>
I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
tools for wedding gifts. All I got was a bunch of fancy plates that I ain't
allowed to eat off of. I tried to register at Grizzly, but SWMBO shot that
idea down. In fact she shot that down before she was even in office yet. The
only good thing about them plates is that I had to build a cabinet to put
them in. So of course I had to get some more clamps and some other tools.

But to try to steer things back to the topic. I got most of my equipment
in the process of building projects. I now have a fairly complete shop, just
by convincing SWMBO that she needed something that I didn't have the correct
tool to make.

Just this last month, she wanted some Christmas ornaments, so I
convinced her my 16" craftsman scroll saw wasn't up to the task. So I got
the new 20" Dewalt. Then my stepmother called me. She makes hand woven
baskets and she was complaining about the quality of the various wooden
parts she buys to use on her baskets. So I had to go out and buy a bandsaw
to resaw the rough oak I have into blanks for basket handles. Then of course
I had to build a steamer so I could bend the handles.
Then I had to build forms to stick the steamed wood in.

You know, I thought I was a fairly intelligent person. I work in
manufacturing, and have been able to handle anything that has come in the
door. So I just assumed that I could steam wood with no trouble. Boy was I
wrong. I didn't consider all the factors involved. Between the wood type,
grain direction, grain shape, and moisture content it's really a PITA. She
wanted oak handles, and I have a large supply of rough sawn 2x8 oak.
Unfortunately it's about 30 years old and really dry. The first time I tried
bending the handles, 90 percent of them cracked either while bending them,
or while they were drying.
Oops, I really wandered off topic. if you're interested in the trials
and tribulation of learning to bend wood with no help. let me know and I'll
start a new thread. Although I like to think of myself as and expert, I am
still wise enough to know I'm not really that smart, just to stupid to give
up.

Well I have 48 years professional experience and that is the sorriest list
of tools
I have ever seen in one list.

As they are bargains they are only good for a 6 thumbed non mechanical
person that attempts to make a home repair and then finnally admits he is
not mechanically inclined and hires someone competent to get the chore taken
care of
And then set it in the corner or use it as a boat anchor.

Most of these tools are only good in the hands of someone that is skilled
and knows how to get the best out of the worst.

The only truth in this post is that you do not have to use you life savings
to get decent equipment but this is a waste of money and will deter some
from not become a woodworker.

Can't wait for the next episode on use of table
What are you going to tell them --not to touch that whirly thingy going
around in circle @ 80 miles and hour
HMMMMMMMM

Well I have seen experts and I have seen experts this is truly one of them.

These self proclaimed experts amaze me.

By the way to all you skilled Hobbiests there are more inept
unknowledable people in proffesional shops than there are of you guys in
your home shops happily whittling away.

Nuff said, stay here newbies some info
you get here will be good and some great and some bad and some not worth a
shit
Guess where this post ranks



"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
> purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
> not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
> you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
> if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
> you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
> great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
> tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
> eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
> suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
> stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
> around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
> models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
> a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:35:45 GMT, Expert Woodworker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>LET ME REPEAT: I ENDORSED A LIST OF SPECIFIC TOOLS THAT WERE PICKED OUT BY
>MY GRANDSON.

The why would you write the following?

"I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would
make a great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools
has been tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following
tools for my eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see
that I am not suggesting these items out of my butt."

<G>

>PS. I would have gladly articulated more if I were not so aggressively
>attacked. I'm just an ole man trying to be helpful.

A few years ago there was a troll thread on another newsgroup where a
poster claimed to HAVE A BROKEN CAPS LOCK KEY, SO HE ALWAYS HAD TO
TYPE IN CAPS. Several regulars in the group offered to send the guy a
free keyboard, and he always replied with excuses like he couldn't get
mail, he had a proprietary connector, the dog chased the mailman away,
etc... He also played the sympathy card once the group chased him
out from under the troll bridge, just as you seem to be doing.

We've all been newbies, so many of us really do try to help them.
Many of us also blow the BS horn when something that dosen't compute
when added to our own experiences to help actual newbies not have to
make the same mistakes we've made.

Regardless of whether you are a troll, spammer, or simply a helpful,
well-meaning poster, I'm bored of this whole thing. I'll be on my way
now. Only you know which one you really are. Feel free to
demonstrate to us which category you fit into in future threads.

Barry

Self Proclaimed
Expert Woodworker wrote:
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
snip of resume and odd choices.

How come I feel like Bob Vila just branched out to the NG?
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

Expert Woodworker wrote:
> B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order
> >>for my grandson.
> > Do you have a first name?
> Gary
> Got any photos of projects you've
> > completed?
> Yes, I do. Have you?
> I didn't think so.
> > An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:

Sam Spade shows: "No match for WOODWORKPRO.NET
and running the IP addy shows:
12/20/03 11:09:59 IP block 63.223.5.95
Trying 63.223.5.95 at ARIN
Trying 63.223.5 at ARIN

OrgName: CAIS Internet
OrgID: CAIS
Address: 6861 Elm Street, Third Floor
City: McLean
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 22101
Country: US

ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.cais.net:4321/

> You comments are digusting, false, and libelous. And your domain is incorrect.

The comments were skeptical based on your choices, and questioning of
your motives, not disgusting, false, or libelous. What was false was
your e-mail addy. What was disgusting was your rabid attack rather than
a reasoned one. His domain was correct, yours was not. AS yet nothing
libelous has been written. You are correct in pointing out that some HF
tools are worth having, many are not. I still think that your choices
are odd but the reasons have been covered by others. If you don't want
spam, feel free to mung your addy, many of us do, most also show a
usable addy in the sig line. Free exchange is welcome here, insults and
ads aren't.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

Swingman wrote:
> The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked' into
> the placid waters of the old wRec ....
> The Question: Is David at it again?

You might just be right. Xnews, munged addy, overlooking the last line
of my reply about providing a sig line that works. And he pushed all
the right buttons.... Sounds a lot like an inside job.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

Expert Woodworker wrote:
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
> purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
> not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
> you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
> if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
> you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.

Then WHY did you do just that below (snipped)
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:

If you spend a little time during the year you could have come up with...


A couple, three hand planes from yard sales/flea market. $20

CS & Rip saw-same source, another $20

Set of Marples 6 for $40

Jig and stone to sharpen chisels and irons $50+/-

A B&D Screwgun $50

That ROS in an above reply $75+/-

A couple of Brushes $????? Been so long since I've had to buy one.

Put the rest into a BETTER TS

Just my $.02 I only have about 15yrs of WW'n, might be my ipnorance
showing Yes the list can be adjusted in any number of ways. but you can
get better tools and a better experience.

He would be FAR better served by the above list than the junk you bought
him. If he knows how to do it by hand, and how to sharpen that is more
important. It also makes many quiet hours of instruction/quality time.

Here's where I get flamed, but anything that has a blade and spins, I
won't buy from HF, ESSSSPECIALLY for my grandson.

Kevin








>
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>

>> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

>What happened to episode 2? I have a new Unisaw awaiting your instructions.


Plug it in.

Turn it on.

Cut some wood.

IN THE NEXT EPISODE 3: How to use your shop vac

>Hell, I remember Cosmo and Mongo. Weren't they the ones who were asking the
>group for advice on the best tools to buy in order to build a flying replica
>of the Spruce Goose?
>
>Ah, we don't get trolls like them thar no more...<sigh>
>
>Cheers
>
>Frank
>
Frank you have a good memory.
Ayup, I had those 'lads' with their Northeastern US acres of Spruce
getting all geared up to build a replica of the Howard Hughes Spurce
Goose with their inheritance.
But ya don't recall the_ADZE?
Aw shoot he'ins wast the feller what lived back in'a pinee woods.
:-)))))))))


Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order for my
>grandson.

Do you have a first name? Got any photos of projects you've
completed? I didn't think so.

An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:

It's Harbor Freight spam. Advertising is one thing, spam disguised as
"advice" is the lowest form of spam. People and companies who post
this crap demonstrate a complete lack of ethics. What's the matter,
the penis enlargement cream market has gone soft? <G>

What's that beeping noise? Oh, it's another container being backed
into the dock for you to unload!

Barry

> I must say that I am shocked at the personal attacks I have gotten today. I
> knew that there would be one or two, but I certainly am surprised at the
> volume. I am up in years. I am not as young as most of you probably are. I
> offered advice on a series of products that I recently purchased and I have
> been accused of being a spammer, and my experience has been questioned. Did
> I ever say...hey don't buy a Jet cabinet saw or a Unisaw if you are a
> veteran. No. Heck, I don't understand this generation much at all.

But you haven't answered the questions posed to you, as to why you
recommend certain items.

Let's see some pics.

Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Tom Bergman) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.
> >
> > But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
> > recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
> > and a paint gun.
> >
>
>
> Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
> question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
> to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

When you continue to dodge and ignore the questions posed to you, and
in fact, get OFFENDED that someone dare question the "expert
woodworker", what do you expect? Answer the legitimate questions
posed.

"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04>...
> Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....
>
> "Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

Well, if you read between the line, his email address does say "PRO SPAM"!!!

>
>"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
><snip>
>
>I am impressed "Expert Woodworker". While your woodworking is highly
>suspect you are second to none in your trolling ability. Any of the trolls
>posting the obvious, easy to filter type profanity trolls could take a
>lesson from you. This post has gotten lots of responses from regulars who
>have wasted their time disputing you.
>
>Congratulations on a job well done. Now into the twit filter you go.
>
>Frank
>
Hey Frank remember The_ADZE and Cosmo Lengro and his brother Mongo?

Heh Heh Heh.
Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/

Expert Woodworker thus spake:

>"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04:
>
>> Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....
>>
>
>
>Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order for my
>grandson.

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, 'I feel your pain.' ;-)

"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected].
>
> Say what you will. I was only trying to be helpful to beginners on a
budget
> based on a recent purchase that I was unexpectedly satisfied with.
>

All right, say you are given the benefit of the doubt, which is unlikely to
happen now, To pick just one item of your list of the ridiculous, how would
you justify recommending a 5 pound, 1/2" chuck, hammer drill as a suitable
tool for a newbie. In the week or two I've been woodworking I can count on
the fingers of one hand the number of times I needed a half inch chuck. I
have never ever needed a hammer drill, nor would I want to be horsing around
one that weighed five pounds while I was trying put in some pocket screws.
True it sure would sink them home and then some but having the screws
sticking out of the other side of the boards isn't all that pretty. I'd have
to check to be sure of the price but I believe that the HF catalog has 12 V
cordless drills at a comparable price and they have clutches in them too
boot which is sufficient for a beginner on a budget and far more practical.

I'll give you a break and not even ask about the pneumatic screwdriver.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
..
> Dan <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it
> >> 'plonked' into the placid waters of the old wRec ....
> >
> > Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you
> > do just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about
> > the best way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."
> >
> > Dan
> >
>
>

Your post reminded me of a question that came up when discussing a
Christmas gift idea with my wife. She was attempting to locate the
larger amp hour (3.5ah)Panasonic drill recently reviewed in a woodworker mag.
She thought she should get me the "set" that included an impact
driver. I was then and am now unable to imagine a use for an impact
driver in woodworking. When I hear/see impact all that comes to mind
is the dismounting and mounting of automobile wheels.

I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on the need for such a
tool in a wood shop.

Regards,
RichardC


Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
> purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
> not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
> you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
> if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
> you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
> great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
> tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
> eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
> suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high end
> stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
> around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
> models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
> a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

As a newbie woodworker, I appreciate any info that someone might give about
tools. It really is up to the individual looking at that information to
question it's validity. Sometimes you must compromise on tools to start
working while you save up for the next purchase you really drool over.

I, myself, have some not so fantastic tools from Canadian tire, but they
help me get the job done, albeit a little slower and with a little more
care. Judge the intentions of the man and not the content. It is unfair to
critisize this individual with such callousness when he is cleary trying to
help some people get started in this hobby. After almost breaking the bank
just to get a few tools for my own home shop, I can understand the post.
Not everyone can afford to go out and spend a few thousand dollars to get
the good stuff right away. Cheap tools might not cut as well or last as
long or may be noisier, but knowing this and taking more precautions on a
new project can overcome some of these limitations.

Buyer beware is the only thing you need to add to this post. As most of us
are adults this should be an apparent rule. Always search out more
information before making a purchase.

Thats my rant.

Happy holidays to everyone in the group

John Van Schaik




"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked'
into
> the placid waters of the old wRec ....
>
> The Question: Is David at it again?
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/18/03
>
>
> "Expert Woodworker" wrote in message
>
> > WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
>

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>wrote:
>[rearranged and snipped for clarity]
>><el sniperino>
>>Here are the headers of our ****new expert woodworker****
>>Please note line 6.
>>
>>>Organization: Pro Woodworking Society
>
>I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you elaborate?
My point is....
The fellow comes in like the preverbial 2 ton gorilla with what HE
proposes is THE List for a beginning woodworker.

Who/What is the Pro Woodworking Society?
Does it exist? Is he shilling for it? Is it a troll?
Why even put such a title in your headers to begin with?
Folla?



Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/

He guy's ....he ain't so bad - he's got Bay Area Dave nailed down cold....


> but a small percentage of them are real jerks.
>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:55:12 GMT, Export Woodworker
<[email protected]> spammed:

>WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
>Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
>posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
>that most newbies are confused about.

Man, this smells so much like Davey...

I once had a guy apply for work who said he had forty years experience
- and he did, too - as a concrete form man. Didn't have much use for
him.

I'd take that five-hundred dollars and buy all best quality hand tools
- the prettiest ones I could find.

That way the kid has a good leg up if he sticks with it and can use
the tools as decorations if he doesn't.




Regards,

Tom Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
www.users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On 20 Dec 2003 07:29:50 -0800, [email protected] (Richard Cook) wrote:

>Your post reminded me of a question that came up when discussing a
>Christmas gift idea with my wife. She was attempting to locate the
>larger amp hour (3.5ah)Panasonic drill recently reviewed in a woodworker mag.
>She thought she should get me the "set" that included an impact
>driver. I was then and am now unable to imagine a use for an impact
>driver in woodworking. When I hear/see impact all that comes to mind
>is the dismounting and mounting of automobile wheels.
>
>I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on the need for such a
>tool in a wood shop.
>
>Regards,
>RichardC

They work great for driving lag bolts.

--

John, in Minnesota

Self proclaimed experts? Well, as they say, "it takes one to know one".

Hot glue gun? 5 pound reversible HAMMER drill? Pneumatic screw gun $40.00,
what about the other couple of hundred for the compressor? Maybe you can
recommend one of those 12V tire inflation compressors to run it for $24.00.
Airless spray gun when a less then $100.00 serviceable HVLP system is
available in the same catalog? Not a mention of clamps, chisels, rasps &
files, let alone measuring and marking tools. HF has some reasonably
accurate engineering squares in that same catalog. Hell, not even a hint of
the most important tool of all, reference books.

While the opening sentiments are good, ninety percent of the tool list is so
ludicrous it smacks highly of troll. The only reason I can see for anyone
replying to it is that some newbie might actually take it seriously.

Hell man your not even an expert troll but, to give some credit, you did
provide some entertainment and a chuckle or two.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
> purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
> not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
> you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
> if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
> you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
> great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
> tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
> eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
> suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
> stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
> around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
> models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
> a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>

> "Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

Gee, I've learned so much from this thread.

In the spirit of the holiday season,

I think it's great that you are able to give your grandson some tools that
will hopefully, foster a desire for him to follow in your footsteps. For
whatever reason you selected those particular tools - it's your gift to him
and I hope you follow-up and show him how to properly use them. Forty years
of experience - that would be the real gift.

Bob S.

Well said Dave.

Bob S.


> -- This is an incredible community of people. Like any community, we
> have a wide range of personalities. Stick around a while, take the
> occasional chill pill, and share some of your 40 years experience with
> us.
>
> djb
>

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
wrote:
[rearranged and snipped for clarity]
><el sniperino>
>Here are the headers of our ****new expert woodworker****
>Please note line 6.
>
>>Organization: Pro Woodworking Society

I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you elaborate?

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip>

I am impressed "Expert Woodworker". While your woodworking is highly
suspect you are second to none in your trolling ability. Any of the trolls
posting the obvious, easy to filter type profanity trolls could take a
lesson from you. This post has gotten lots of responses from regulars who
have wasted their time disputing you.

Congratulations on a job well done. Now into the twit filter you go.

Frank

"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04:

> Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....
>


Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order for my
grandson.

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
wrote in news:[email protected]:

> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order
>>for my grandson.
>
> Do you have a first name?

Gary

Got any photos of projects you've
> completed?

Yes, I do. Have you?

I didn't think so.
>
> An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:


You comments are digusting, false, and libelous. And your domain is
incorrect.

"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in news:dmXEb.609477$Fm2.551816@attbi_s04:

> Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....
>

If I worked for HF, would I write that their cheaper stuff is crap? I don't
think so.

Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure that
the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a small
percentage of them are real jerks.

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
wrote in news:[email protected]:

> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure
>>that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a
>>small percentage of them are real jerks.
>
> Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide help
> quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:
>
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please%40ao
> l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.woodw
> orking&start=10&sa=N>
>
> Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
> Harbor Freight items:

Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time Usenet
poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience. Like I said,
the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an advanced
amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff is
crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be fine.

"Jim Helfer" <jhelfer@REMOVE~THISwtwarch.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> You may have tested the particular item, but who's to say that when
> _I_
> buy one, it won't be the same branding, but completely diffferent (and
> even junkier) guts? That's how these cheap tool makers work, isn't
> it? (That's how cheap PC builders work).
>
> Also, I have some air tools, and use them from time-to-time, but
> what the
> heck is an air screwdriver?
>
> Jim H
>
>
>
> "Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
>> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am
>> >>sure that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality
>> >>people, but a small percentage of them are real jerks.
>> >
>> > Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide
>> > help quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:
>> >
>> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please%4
>> > 0ao
>> > l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.wo
>> > odw orking&start=10&sa=N>
>> >
>> > Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
>> > Harbor Freight items:
>>
>> Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time
>> Usenet poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience.
>> Like I
> said,
>> the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an
> advanced
>> amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff
>> is crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be
>> fine.


I must say that I am shocked at the personal attacks I have gotten today. I
knew that there would be one or two, but I certainly am surprised at the
volume. I am up in years. I am not as young as most of you probably are. I
offered advice on a series of products that I recently purchased and I have
been accused of being a spammer, and my experience has been questioned. Did
I ever say...hey don't buy a Jet cabinet saw or a Unisaw if you are a
veteran. No. Heck, I don't understand this generation much at all.

[email protected] (Tom Bergman) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.
>
> But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
> recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
> and a paint gun.
>


Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

"Bob S." <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In the spirit of the holiday season,
>
> I think it's great that you are able to give your grandson some tools
> that will hopefully, foster a desire for him to follow in your
> footsteps. For whatever reason you selected those particular tools -
> it's your gift to him and I hope you follow-up and show him how to
> properly use them. Forty years of experience - that would be the real
> gift.
>
> Bob S.
>
>
>

Thank you, Bob. Like I said, the majority of the users here are good
people. It is about time that one of them decided to reply.

I offered to buy him a high end circular saw and a few other expensive
pieces. Actually, he picked out the HF stuff by himself. I originally
thought it was a bad idea, but I went along with it and put the order on my
card. Once the stuff arrived I was truly impressed at the relatively
acceptable performance. I make no account of other products from this
vendor. I have also seen a fair amount of crap from them.

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
wrote in news:[email protected]:

> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:46:58 GMT, Expert Woodworker
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time
>>Usenet poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience.
>>Like I said, the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a
>>beginner.
>
> Certainly! Back to the original questions, and onward with helping
> newbies. <G> I'm seeking clarifications to the following expert
> recommendations, as maybe _I_ can learn something.
>
> So, Gary,
>
> Why would you recommend a 1/4 sheet sander over a random orbit sander,
> when both can be had for about the same price?

Because this is the sander that my grandson ordered and I find the quality
to be acceptable for what it is.

> Why would a newbie need _any_ pneumatic tool without a compressor?

I gave my grandson an old compressor of mine, so he did not need to buy
one.


> Why would a newbie need a pneumatic screwdriver, when a VSR drill is
> also on the list?

I did not write the shopping list, Barry. All I did was pay the bill and
test the gear.

> Why a glue gun? What's your recommendation for glue for this gun?

A glue gun is nice to have around. They do have their place like for lite
detailing, though I admit that I do not use one very often. I keep alot of
titebond and gg around.

> What advantage does a poor table saw _and_ a cheap circular saw have
> over a high quality circular saw and edge guide?

He insisted on the table saw. I tested it and it is not as bad I expected
once you get the guide set. I agree about the circular saw and the one he
has was another surprise once we changed the blade.

> Wouldn't a woodworker need some sort of measuring device and angle
> layout tools? What would you recommend?

Of course, I have tons of this stuff around. He did not need to buy this.

LET ME REPEAT: I ENDORSED A LIST OF SPECIFIC TOOLS THAT WERE PICKED OUT BY
MY GRANDSON.

PS. I would have gladly articulated more if I were not so aggressively
attacked. I'm just an ole man trying to be helpful. Sorry if I appear to be
a joke in your eyes.

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Expert Woodworker wrote:
>> B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
>> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:57:15 GMT, Expert Woodworker
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>Not at all. I have no afiliation with HF other that my recent order
>> >>for my grandson.
>> > Do you have a first name?
>> Gary
>> Got any photos of projects you've
>> > completed?
>> Yes, I do. Have you?
>> I didn't think so.
>> > An nslookup of woodworkpro.net comes up as a non-existent domain:
>
> Sam Spade shows: "No match for WOODWORKPRO.NET
> and running the IP addy shows:
> 12/20/03 11:09:59 IP block 63.223.5.95
> Trying 63.223.5.95 at ARIN
> Trying 63.223.5 at ARIN
>
> OrgName: CAIS Internet
> OrgID: CAIS
> Address: 6861 Elm Street, Third Floor
> City: McLean
> StateProv: VA
> PostalCode: 22101
> Country: US
>

You are not as clever as you think. I never claimed to get my email at
'woodworkpro.net'. What gave you that idea? My email address is obviously a
fake for SPAM evasion purposes. Am I the only person in this group that
does not provide my real email address? Not at all.

On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it
> 'plonked' into the placid waters of the old wRec ....

Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you do
just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about the best
way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."

Dan

"John" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:7R%Eb.767067$9l5.294022@pd7tw2no:

> As a newbie woodworker, I appreciate any info that someone might give
> about tools. It really is up to the individual looking at that
> information to question it's validity. Sometimes you must compromise
> on tools to start working while you save up for the next purchase you
> really drool over.
>
> I, myself, have some not so fantastic tools from Canadian tire, but
> they
> help me get the job done, albeit a little slower and with a little
> more care. Judge the intentions of the man and not the content. It
> is unfair to critisize this individual with such callousness when he
> is cleary trying to help some people get started in this hobby. After
> almost breaking the bank just to get a few tools for my own home shop,
> I can understand the post. Not everyone can afford to go out and spend
> a few thousand dollars to get the good stuff right away. Cheap tools
> might not cut as well or last as long or may be noisier, but knowing
> this and taking more precautions on a new project can overcome some of
> these limitations.
>
> Buyer beware is the only thing you need to add to this post. As most
> of us
> are adults this should be an apparent rule. Always search out more
> information before making a purchase.
>
> Thats my rant.
>
> Happy holidays to everyone in the group
>
> John Van Schaik

Thank you, John. Enjoy your holidays too.

Dan <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it
>> 'plonked' into the placid waters of the old wRec ....
>
> Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you
> do just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about
> the best way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."
>
> Dan
>



Say what you will. I was only trying to be helpful to beginners on a budget
based on a recent purchase that I was unexpectedly satisfied with.

Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote


> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I
> am posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some
> basics that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first
> tool purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when
> you are new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity
> that you may not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a
> natural talent and you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking
> before you would know if you have this talent. But, if you buy the
> cheapest tools you can find, you will probably get discouraged before
> you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the
> regulars of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only
> the best. This is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason
> you need to blow your life savings on power tools to get started as a
> woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would
> make a great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools
> has been tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following
> tools for my eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see
> that I am not suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should
> bring your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is
> not high end stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.
> You can check around the HF site, but I would go with the list above.
> They sell cheaper models for almost each tool on the list, but these
> have all been tested by a professional with more than 40 years
> experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Bill

On 20 Dec 2003, Tom Watson spake unto rec.woodworking:


>>Man, this smells so much like Davey...
>
> Nah, Davey'd be working today, this close to Christmas.
>
> The Harbor Fright stuff don't bother me none - I just can't figger a
> self proclaimed old fart would be using Xnews.
>
> Now, Scotty Cramer uses Xnews...


I wish I could confess to being this exciting new Wreck contributor,
but I'm afraid it ain't so. I rarely read the group on weekends, and don't
have Xnews on the home computer. It is nice to see some competition for
the resident BAD boy, though. You're right, however... somebody so
clueless in the usenet department would be unlikely to be an Xnews user.

Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I
> am posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some
> basics that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first
> tool purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when
> you are new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity
> that you may not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a
> natural talent and you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking
> before you would know if you have this talent. But, if you buy the
> cheapest tools you can find, you will probably get discouraged before
> you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the
> regulars of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only
> the best. This is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason
> you need to blow your life savings on power tools to get started as a
> woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would
> make a great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools
> has been tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following
> tools for my eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see
> that I am not suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should
> bring your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is
> not high end stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.
> You can check around the HF site, but I would go with the list above.
> They sell cheaper models for almost each tool on the list, but these
> have all been tested by a professional with more than 40 years
> experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

What happened to episode 2? I have a new Unisaw awaiting your instructions.

Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
<snip>
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

Umm, with that table saw, the best way to use it is to jack up the
arbor nut, and slide a $100 used 1970's Craftsman contractor's saw
under it.

Then replace the arbor nut with the one that came on the Craftsman ;)

Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...


> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987

I have seen a saw quite similar to this one and found that the table
was not flat and the parallel guide mounting prone to yield under the
lightest of efforts. This makes this saw a rather dangerous tool. You
may want to check on that, because you do not want your son to be
injured.

You may have tested the particular item, but who's to say that when _I_
buy one, it won't be the same branding, but completely diffferent (and even
junkier) guts? That's how these cheap tool makers work, isn't it? (That's
how cheap PC builders work).

Also, I have some air tools, and use them from time-to-time, but what the
heck is an air screwdriver?

Jim H



"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure
> >>that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a
> >>small percentage of them are real jerks.
> >
> > Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide help
> > quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:
> >
> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please%40ao
> > l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.woodw
> > orking&start=10&sa=N>
> >
> > Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
> > Harbor Freight items:
>
> Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time Usenet
> poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience. Like I
said,
> the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an
advanced
> amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff is
> crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be fine.
>
>
>
>

Hi Expert Woodworker,

Exactly who are all these self-proclaimed experts? Despite the fact that we
have many valued contributors - professionals from every walk of
oodworking - with hundreds, if not thousands, of years of accumulated
experience, I've only seen one guy who proclaims himself to be an expert
woodworker!

As for starting out with the best, the usual advice I see on this group to
newbies is to start out with the best they can afford. Which is good
advice, but quite a different proposition to spending their life-savings.

Please continue your postings. Despite some weaknesses in the charm and
humility stakes, there's a certain amount of horse-sense in your input and
it will be interesting to learn whether you're a sage or a plage, a weezard
or (hastily gets out the garlic and silver bullet) ........a leezard :))

Cheers,

Frank



"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip>

> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

<snip>

Hell, I remember Cosmo and Mongo. Weren't they the ones who were asking the
group for advice on the best tools to buy in order to build a flying replica
of the Spruce Goose?

Ah, we don't get trolls like them thar no more...<sigh>

Cheers

Frank





"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dave Fleming wrote:
> >Hey Frank remember The_ADZE and Cosmo Lengro and his brother Mongo?
>
> Them was trolls.
>
> >Heh Heh Heh.
>
> Ditto.
>
> UA100

> > hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
> > were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase
were
> > the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.
> >
> I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
> tools for wedding gifts.

I think that was a very stealthful drive-by gloat :-)

Good catch.

LOL
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
> >What happened to episode 2? I have a new Unisaw awaiting your
instructions.
>
> Plug it in.
>
> Turn it on.
> Cut some wood.
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 3: How to use your shop vac

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
... snip of low-end tool selection
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high end
> stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.

Guess it depends upon the barrel you're looking in.

> You can check
> around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
> models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
> a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
as a boat anchor

>
>

David,

Is that you playing with us? Or UA100? If so, good troll!

Dave Fleming wrote:
>Hey Frank remember The_ADZE and Cosmo Lengro and his brother Mongo?

Them was trolls.

>Heh Heh Heh.

Ditto.

UA100

Looks like spam from harborfreight to me....



"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
> purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
> not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
> you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
> if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
> you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
> great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
> tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
> eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
> suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
> stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
> around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
> models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
> a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:55:12 GMT, Expert Woodworker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
>of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
>is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
>your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.

Agreed!

>I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools

Whaaa?

>$119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987

A high quality handheld circular saw with a good rip guide would be a
far better investment than this POS.

>
>$79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793

Sounds too good to be true. This is scary.

>$24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338

Everyone needs a drill, and this one is cheap. This _may_ be usable,
if it's better than the Chicago Electric tools I've fondled.

>
>$49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284

Why a 1/4 sheet over a ROS? A Porter Cable 333 can be had for a few
bucks more and would be far more versatile.

>
>$39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266

What beginner NEEDS an air screwdriver? A standard screwdriver is $3,
and screws can be driven with the cheapo VSR drill you've already
listed. How is this air screwdriver going to be used? Should the
beginner blow in the air hole to get the blade spinning? Or is it
intended as a doorstop until a compressor is obtained?

>
>$6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445

WHY?

>$39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648

A good dowelling jig is more accurate than a cheap plate joiner at the
same price.

>$39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760

Now the BS is getting really deep. <G>

>$34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
>http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866

Not needed if the PSO table saw is dumped in favor of a high-end
circular saw.

>You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws,

Good advice.

> Keep in mind, this is not high end
>stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel.

Umm, yes it is... <G>

>You can check
>around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
>models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
>a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!

Experience at what? Unloading containers from China at Harbor
Freight? How about posting photos of some of your work?

Are you associated in some way with Harbor Freight? It certainly
looks like you are.

>IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

I just can't wait, please hurry!

Barry

R2D2 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
> >
> > IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>
> What happened to episode 2? I have a new Unisaw awaiting your instructions.


I am sure you will be disappointed. The sequel is never as good as the original.

-Chris

<el sniperino>
Here are the headers of our ****new expert woodworker****

>internal1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!63.223.6.99.MISMATCH!c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!pc01.webusenet.com!fe01.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
>Subject: Re: WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS 1
>From: Expert Woodworker <[email protected]>
>References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
>Organization: Pro Woodworking Society
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
>Lines: 14
>X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
>X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
>X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:01:36 EST
>Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:01:36 GMT
>Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.woodworking:954939

Please note line 6.
Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/djf3rd/

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:38:42 GMT, Expert Woodworker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Yes, I do. Have you?

<http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/nightstand-12.jpg>

<http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/coattree-unfin1.jpg>

<http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/routertable2.jpg>

I'm due for an update, as I've been a bit busy to prep and upload some
from the last 9-12 months.

>And your domain is
>incorrect.

I know that, but the "reply-to" works. <G>

Barry

God I hope I haven't been suckered into replying to troll/spam.

But for a beginner woodworker, I can't imagine why on earth you'd
recommend their first tools include a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun,
and a paint gun.

Not a harsh word in there. Why don't you answer the question about
why a 1/2" hammer drill, a glue gun, and a paint gun would good
starter tools for a beginner? I'm a long way from a beginner (or just
beginning - depends on who in the wreck I'm compared to) and I see
little or no use for those three specific tools.

What do you propose be made here - a spray painted craft wreath with
glued on fake fruit, Hilti bolted to the sidewalk?

Ok, the 1/2" hammer drill can drill plain old holes in wood too, but a
standard corded or cordless 3/8" is a lot more appropriate for that.

wouldn't things like chisels, layout tools, scrapers, planes, a good
paint (well, one for varnish or shellac) brush make just a wee bit
more sense for a beginning woodworker?

Face it, you gave bad advice.

And that's just a wee bit harsh.
>
>
> Would a spammer admit that many of the products sold by the company in
> question are garbage? Probably not. I found the SPECIFIC items on the list
> to be adequate for a BEGINNER. Why are you so harsh?

An air screwdriver and no compressor? A $79 3 hp plunge router? Hmmm.

I smell a little "self proclaimed expert". Look in the mirror. Try being a
little humble and let us figure out if you are credible. I look forward to
your episode 2.

Bob

"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>
> Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> that most newbies are confused about.
>
> POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first tool
> purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you may
> not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent and
> you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would know
> if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can find,
> you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.
>
> Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the regulars
> of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best. This
> is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
>
> Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
>
> I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a
> great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
> tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
> eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
> suggesting these items out of my butt.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
>
> $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
>
> $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
>
> $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
>
> $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
>
> $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
>
> $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
>
> $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
>
> $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
>
> You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
> stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
> around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell cheaper
> models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
> a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:16:46 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>A complete wood shop for under $500?

I'll do you one for $100. Go read Mike Abbott's "Green Woodworking"
and you can tool up to make chairs with little more than an axe, a
turning chisel and a couple of drawknives.

Of course, you'll be entirely stumped trying to make a birdbox out of
two scraps of plywood, but specialisation is the cost of the low
entry-cost approach.

There's also an excellent book by the Intermediate Technology people
on how to teach woodworking in Africa, by teaching your class to make
their own hand tools from wood and truck leafsprings.
--
Smert' spamionam

Robert Smith wrote:

> I normally just lurk, but I have just got to know. How did you end up with
> tools for wedding gifts. All I got was a bunch of fancy plates that I

I got most of the stuff from Dad as part of a "setting up housekeeping" type
package. A drill, hammer, screwdrivers, drill bits, screwdriver bits...
Pretty practical you're a man now stuff. Maybe I got some of it that first
Christmas.

> ain't allowed to eat off of. I tried to register at Grizzly, but SWMBO

We got a lot of stuff like that too. I was a foreign language major in my
last semester when I rather abruptly got to learn about EPT, Lamaze, and
trying to support a family on a minimum wage work study job... I got some
very useful towels, the last of which I just consigned to rag detail
recently. Everything else was fancy Euroweird stuff. Linen napkins, fine
china, exotic handmade lace thingies, crystal.

I eat with my elbows on the table, always eat with the longest fork and the
biggest spoon I can find, and I still haven't figured out what I'm supposed
to do with the exotic handmade lace thingies. I think the exotic china and
crystal are in the cabinet over the fridge. I haven't opened it since we
moved into this house six years ago.

We don't have a lot of company, and the company we do have doesn't know what
to do with the exotic handmade lace thingies either.

I've found the crystal is pretty solid. It doesn't tip over easily, so they
make *great* containers for holding brush dipping water for doing
watercolors. Wickford? Weckford? Wedgewood? Good for cracking nuts into
too.

> shot that idea down. In fact she shot that down before she was even in
> office yet. The only good thing about them plates is that I had to build a
> cabinet to put them in. So of course I had to get some more clamps and
> some other tools.

Me too. Not *those* plates, but some other ones. The *good* stuff is
buried in dust somewhere. The not-so-good stuff got me the router table I
think, and a bunch of pipe clamps for sure. I built a hutch to mount onto
a dresser so we could display those plates. They have since been relegated
to some other forgotten corner to make way for SWMBO's Barbie collection.

All in all, we probably have four or five sets of plates, and we eat off the
stuff my wife got in college.

> in the process of building projects. I now have a fairly complete shop,
> just by convincing SWMBO that she needed something that I didn't have the
> correct tool to make.

Me too. I've also used other tactics. As a recent example, I wanted to get
into hand planes. SWMBO balked at the price of all the stuff I needed to
buy to get started, so I took her out to Lowe's and showed her how much it
costs to buy a cheap benchtop planer and jointer. That shut her up real
quick like.

> door. So I just assumed that I could steam wood with no trouble. Boy was I
> wrong. I didn't consider all the factors involved. Between the wood type,

I can imagine. I haven't tried anything that large-scale or purposeful, but
I've played with bending popsicle sticks for some reason or other. It's a
real PITA just bending one of those little things without breaking it.
Wood bending people are half mad I think.

> Oops, I really wandered off topic. if you're interested in the trials
> and tribulation of learning to bend wood with no help. let me know and
> I'll start a new thread. Although I like to think of myself as and expert,
> I am still wise enough to know I'm not really that smart, just to stupid
> to give up.

Go for it! SWMBO does the craft show thing, and she uses a lot of Chiwanese
baskets. I've been thinking for years I could make something better.
Maybe you can talk me out of even thinking about trying, or talk me into a
new tool. Whichever. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:05:52 GMT, Unisaw A100 <[email protected]>
wrote:
LOL...Too funny...
>>> IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>
>>What happened to episode 2? I have a new Unisaw awaiting your instructions.
>
>
>Plug it in.
>
>Turn it on.
>
>Cut some wood.
>
>IN THE NEXT EPISODE 3: How to use your shop vac

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:46:58 GMT, Expert Woodworker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time Usenet
>poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience. Like I said,
>the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner.

Certainly! Back to the original questions, and onward with helping
newbies. <G> I'm seeking clarifications to the following expert
recommendations, as maybe _I_ can learn something.

So, Gary,

Why would you recommend a 1/4 sheet sander over a random orbit sander,
when both can be had for about the same price?

Why would a newbie need _any_ pneumatic tool without a compressor?

Why would a newbie need a pneumatic screwdriver, when a VSR drill is
also on the list?

Why a glue gun? What's your recommendation for glue for this gun?

What advantage does a poor table saw _and_ a cheap circular saw have
over a high quality circular saw and edge guide?

Wouldn't a woodworker need some sort of measuring device and angle
layout tools? What would you recommend?

Thanks in advance,
Barry

The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked' into
the placid waters of the old wRec ....

The Question: Is David at it again?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/18/03


"Expert Woodworker" wrote in message

> WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1

On 20 Dec 2003 07:29:50 -0800, [email protected] (Richard Cook) wrote:

>Your post reminded me of a question that came up when discussing a
>Christmas gift idea with my wife. She was attempting to locate the
>larger amp hour (3.5ah)Panasonic drill recently reviewed in a woodworker mag.
>She thought she should get me the "set" that included an impact
>driver. I was then and am now unable to imagine a use for an impact
>driver in woodworking. When I hear/see impact all that comes to mind
>is the dismounting and mounting of automobile wheels.
>
>I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on the need for such a
>tool in a wood shop.
>
>Regards,
>RichardC



ackshooly, I have heard (tho not tried it out myself) that those
things can eliminate camout when driving phillips head screws. I have
a dedicated screwdriver, more like the air tool described in the OP's
OP.

Bridger

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:26:28 -0500, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:


>
>Man, this smells so much like Davey...

Nah, Davey'd be working today, this close to Christmas.

The Harbor Fright stuff don't bother me none - I just can't figger a
self proclaimed old fart would be using Xnews.

Now, Scotty Cramer uses Xnews...


Regards,

Tom Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
http:users.snip.net/~tjwatson

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>The shiny lure, accurately cast, barely caused a ripple as it 'plonked' into
>the placid waters of the old wRec ....

I can't explain it, but sometimes I actually enjoy responding to a
troll for a while. Today is obviously one of those days! <G>

Barry

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am sure that
>the overwhelming majority of users here are quality people, but a small
>percentage of them are real jerks.

Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide help
quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:

<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please%40aol.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.woodworking&start=10&sa=N>

Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
Harbor Freight items:

<http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search>

Barry

"Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jim Helfer" <jhelfer@REMOVE~THISwtwarch.com> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > You may have tested the particular item, but who's to say that when
> > _I_
> > buy one, it won't be the same branding, but completely diffferent (and
> > even junkier) guts? That's how these cheap tool makers work, isn't
> > it? (That's how cheap PC builders work).
> >
> > Also, I have some air tools, and use them from time-to-time, but
> > what the
> > heck is an air screwdriver?
> >
> > Jim H
> >
> >
> >
> > "Expert Woodworker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> B a r r y B u r k e J r . <[email protected]>
> >> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:43:50 GMT, Expert Woodworker
> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Newbies: these are the jerks that I tried to warn you about. I am
> >> >>sure that the overwhelming majority of users here are quality
> >> >>people, but a small percentage of them are real jerks.
> >> >
> >> > Any newbie who does a Google group search can tell that I provide
> >> > help quite often here, as well as learning a whole bunch myself:
> >> >
> >> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please%4
> >> > 0ao
> >> > l.com+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.wo
> >> > odw orking&start=10&sa=N>
> >> >
> >> > Yet a search for your posts includes one post, a "helpful" list of
> >> > Harbor Freight items:
> >>
> >> Stop the two bit detective work. I never claimed to be a long time
> >> Usenet poster. That does not put a dent in my woodworking experience.
> >> Like I
> > said,
> >> the specific tools that I endorsed are fine for a beginner. Not an
> > advanced
> >> amateur or a pro. And yes, I agree that a good amount of the HF stuff
> >> is crap, the the stuff I bought for my grandson turned out to be
> >> fine.
>
>
> I must say that I am shocked at the personal attacks I have gotten today.
I
> knew that there would be one or two, but I certainly am surprised at the
> volume. I am up in years. I am not as young as most of you probably are. I
> offered advice on a series of products that I recently purchased and I
have
> been accused of being a spammer, and my experience has been questioned.
Did
> I ever say...hey don't buy a Jet cabinet saw or a Unisaw if you are a
> veteran. No. Heck, I don't understand this generation much at all.
>

Old age is no excuse for bad manners. Your replied to my message with a
complaint about personal attacks. My message contained only polite
questions. There is no way a reasonable person could have interpreted my
remarks as being of a personal manner.

Jim Helfer
"Beginning Woodworker" (And my age is simply and accident of birth).

You mean you don't have wooden wheels on your car <G>
"Richard Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Your post reminded me of a question that came up when discussing a
> Christmas gift idea with my wife. She was attempting to locate the
> larger amp hour (3.5ah)Panasonic drill recently reviewed in a woodworker
mag.
> She thought she should get me the "set" that included an impact
> driver. I was then and am now unable to imagine a use for an impact
> driver in woodworking. When I hear/see impact all that comes to mind
> is the dismounting and mounting of automobile wheels.
>
> I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on the need for such a
> tool in a wood shop.
>
> Regards,
> RichardC
>
>
> Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
> >
> > Hi. I am woodworker with over 40 years of professional experience. I am
> > posting this series of episodes to help new woodworkers with some basics
> > that most newbies are confused about.
> >
> > POWER TOOLS: Most new woodworkers are very confused about their first
tool
> > purchases. There is temptation to buy cheap, inferior stuff when you are
> > new because you don't want to invest that much in an activity that you
may
> > not be very good at. Woodworking, IMHO, does require a natural talent
and
> > you need to spend a fair amount of time woodworking before you would
know
> > if you have this talent. But, if you buy the cheapest tools you can
find,
> > you will probably get discouraged before you go very far.
> >
> > Then you will have the self-procalimed experts (like some of the
regulars
> > of this newsgroup) who will tell you to start out with only the best.
This
> > is nothing but pure liquid hogwash! There is no reason you need to blow
> > your life savings on power tools to get started as a woodworker.
> >
> > Episode 1 - YOUR OWN SHOP FOR UNDER $500:
> >
> > I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make
a
> > great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been
> > tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my
> > eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not
> > suggesting these items out of my butt.
> >
> > THE LIST:
> >
> > $119 US General - TABLE SAW (with stand)
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46987
> >
> > $79.99 Chicago Electric - 3 HP PLUNGE ROUTER
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
> >
> > $24.99 Chicago Electric - 1/2'' VARIABLE SPEED REVERSIBLE HAMMER DRILL
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45338
> >
> > $49.99 Dewalt - 1/4 SHEET HEAVY DUTY PALM GRIP SANDER
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1284
> >
> > $39.99 Central Pneumatic - 1/4'' AIR SCREWDRIVER
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45266
> >
> > $6.49 Chicago Electric - GLUE GUN
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47445
> >
> > $39.99 Chicago Electric - BISCUIT JOINER KIT
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38648
> >
> > $39.99 Wagner - POWER PAINTER
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=30760
> >
> > $34.99 Chicago Electric - 7-1/4'' CIRCULAR SAW
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46866
> >
> > You will want to buy better blades for the 2 saws, but that should bring
> > your grand total to about $500, shipped. Keep in mind, this is not high
end
> > stuff, but then again is is not the bottom of the barrel. You can check
> > around the HF site, but I would go with the list above. They sell
cheaper
> > models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested
by
> > a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
> >
> > IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw

> I am sure you will be disappointed. The sequel is never as good as the
original.
>
> -Chris


And that wasn't much good to start with

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris) wrote:
>R2D2 <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Expert Woodworker <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS - Episode 1
>> >
>> > IN THE NEXT EPISODE 2: How to use your table saw
>>
>> What happened to episode 2? I have a new Unisaw awaiting your instructions.
>
>
>I am sure you will be disappointed. The sequel is never as good as the
> original.
>
Then this sequel promises to be disappointing indeed.

--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

While I can't totally agree with the list of tools it's close enough and the
differences would just amount to personal preferences.

All in all though, I would say that that (Silvan;s) post truly contained
truly expert advice.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Charlie Self wrote:
>
> >>models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested
by
> >>a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
> >
> > Resume, please.
>
> He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been
> around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40
> years of experience in his profession.
>
> Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real
thoughts
> on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...
>
> A complete wood shop for under $500?
>
> No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best
> reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small
> table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear,
> chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps,
> basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw,
> flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for
> the power saws.
>
> It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander,
> drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as
> my own little shop.
>
> It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
> with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
> hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
> were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
> the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.
>
> Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web
> site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned
> in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and
use
> all of these things to this day.
>
> When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size.
> Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails.
> Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles.
> Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000
> sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some
wood.
> They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most
> likely didn't get all of that in one shot.
>
> Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools
> as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will
use,
> instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>

Charlie Self wrote:

>>models for almost each tool on the list, but these have all been tested by
>>a professional with more than 40 years experience, yours truly!
>
> Resume, please.

He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been
around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40
years of experience in his profession.

Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real thoughts
on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...

A complete wood shop for under $500?

No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best
reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small
table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear,
chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps,
basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw,
flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for
the power saws.

It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander,
drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as
my own little shop.

It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started
with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a
hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these
were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were
the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web
site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned
in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and use
all of these things to this day.

When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size.
Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails.
Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles.
Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000
sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some wood.
They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most
likely didn't get all of that in one shot.

Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools
as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will use,
instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Stephen M wrote:

> I think that was a very stealthful drive-by gloat :-)
>
> Good catch.

Why so it was, I suppose. It was a long time ago. I know 10 years is
nothing to many here, but there's a big difference between 22 and 32.

A lot has changed in 10 years. Mostly, I appreciate Renee a lot more now
than I did then. I sure never planned the way any of that happened, but I
can't imagine what I'd be doing with my life right now if it hadn't.

I'll be sure to tell her that come next January... January... 10th? 20th?
Oh hell. LOL!

Oh, and BTW, a real gloat... SWMBO says to me "Honey, I've been thinking
about buying you a scroll saw."

That wasn't on my list, or even on my mind, really. That came from left
field. It probably means she wants me to make her something with it, but
I'll be glad to. It's sitting in the dining room right now with a big bow
on it. Delta 16" VS, probably not top of the line, but I asked about it a
bit back and it seems this will be a nice little critter to have around the
shop. She paid for it with her money, and she earns a lot less than I do,
so that took some doing.

Yeah, I'd say that's a gloat.

(And all I got her were some stupid clothes and some stupid little pieces of
rock and metal with no power cords and no moving parts... How boring!)

Having a wife who puts up with me is a gloat too. I'm not easy to live
with, and we both know it. She loves me pretty much unconditionally. I'll
never understand it, but it sure is nice.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/