Wiring Up My Shop: How many circuits?

also easier to switch them all off

TroyD wrote:

> Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
>
>> circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell me
>> why).
>
>
> snip
>
>
> Because at the worst possible time, usually in the middle of a rip on
> your table saw, the circut will trip.
>
> TroyD
>

Ben Siders asks:

>Ideally, this is what I want to do:
>
>1 120V circuit for machines (many, many plugs)
>1 220V circuit for hard core machines (a few plug)
>1 120V circuit for lighting
>1 120V circuit for any dust collection
>

Good start. I'd check that "many, many" receptacles bit, though. IIRC, NEC
limits 110 volt circuits to a max of 8 outlets per. If I even think 2 tools
will be used on the circuit at one time, I add another circuit.

I'd guess your dust collector is a 110 volt. Many are 220. Make sure.

I'd also, if possible, run a second 220, or at least make sure there's space
for the breaker. If you have no current 220 equipment, figure out how long you
expect to stay in the house. If it's 5 years or more, and you keep woodworking,
you'll want 220 gear at some point.

Lights are put on their own circuit for a simple reason: if you're feeding wood
to your table saw and the saw binds, you will be glad the lights are on another
circuit when the saw breaker blows.

Charlie Self

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm
commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe."
Dan Quayle

I have two circuits for lights (there's a little more than lights
on these circuits, including garage door openers) and found
it very convenient to have THREE switches for the lights,
three banks of fluorescents. Means I can turn on some,
most, or all, depending on what I'm doing. Didn't see the
advantage of turning on all nine 2-bulb, 4-foot, fixtures just
to fetch a screwdriver or somesuch.

Oh, and earlier I mentioned the number of circuits I have
in my garage/workshop but overlooked another circuit
for my 10,000BTU window air conditioner [gloat!]. On recent
100+ degree days (Wednesday, Dallas/Fort Worth had
a record 109 for the date!) my shop was a comfy 77.
Helps to turn the A/C on in the morning, when the ambient
is 80+/-, and to have insulated the walls and garage doors
(my ceiling, though, is still just a 1/2" layer of drywall, no
insulation in the attic).

Jim Stuyck


"Bruce Garland" <BRuce> wrote in message
news:1060353890.732666@sj-nntpcache-3...
> also easier to switch them all off
>
> TroyD wrote:
>
> > Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
> >
> >> circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell
me
> >> why).
> >
> >
> > snip
> >
> >
> > Because at the worst possible time, usually in the middle of a rip on
> > your table saw, the circut will trip.
> >
> > TroyD
> >
>

"Ben Siders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:44:54 +0000, Steve wrote:
>
> > Lights on separate circuit? YES. If a machine blows a circuit, you
> > won't be in the dark.
> >
>
> Ah, good point. Especially since my shop is in the basement.
>
> > 15 amps Lights
> > 20 amps (115) outlets around wall
> > 20 amps (230) table saw
> > 20 amps (230) dust collection (future)
> > 20 amps (115) garage door opener, outdoor lights
> > 20 amps (115) A/C, heater outlet
> > + 3 open spots in sub-panel for anything in the future.
>
> Did you install all these yourself or hire an electrician?

That depends - are you with the code enforcement division? ;^)

I put it all in and ran it all in smurf tube so I could change it later
if necessary. My shop has OSB walls so I can screw the conduit and
outlets in where ever I need them.

"Ben Siders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:54:41 +0000, Steve wrote:
>
>
> > That depends - are you with the code enforcement division? ;^)
>
> Heh, no. I've done a few really tiny wiring projects (install a GFCB,
for
> example), I'm just trying to guess if I can do all this on my own. I
did
> took a few home electricity classes in high school, but that was 10
years
> ago.

I'd say if in doubt, don't take a chance burning the house down. Find
an electrician that will let you do the grunt work and hook everything
up for you.

"Ben Siders" writes:
<snip>
> I plan on this shop being used for a hobbyist but I'm also thinking of
> resale of the home, especially if the potential buyer is any kind of
> handycraftsy person. Is 4 circuits too much? How many outlets would you
> recommend, and is that 220V line really necessary?
<snip>

Electrical circuits are like clamps, you can NEVER have too many.

The following are some general guidelines for a distribution system.

Use two (2) dedicated 20A ckts for lighting.

If you loose one, you still have the other.

Yes, you want 240V circuits, lots of them.

Your table saw will be much happier on 240VAC as opposed to 120VAC.

How about a decent air compressor and/or a dust collector, they both like
240 VAC.

Forget 15A circuits.

Use 20A c'bkrs and #12 AWG wire as a minimum for 120 VAC distribution.

Even though this shop is in your basement, consider adding a 60A panel fed
from the main panel and dedicated to your shop.

Panels, c'bkrs and wire are relatively inexpensive. Labor is expensive;
however, it is the job unknowns that really drive up the cost of the
finished job.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures

Your plan seems sound enough. Watch the amperage on the
circuit you have for machines; 20amps is my suggestion. I have
a couple 20-amp circuits for machines which is not overkill given
that I could easily have the compressor cut in (loss of pressure)
if I started using a saw. Given the number of lights I have, I have
two 15-amp circuits for lights. However, part of the reason for
two circuits was to simplify the wiring.

As to the *potential* for 220V, it's trivial to convert that to/from
120 *if* you have sufficiently-sized wire (move the white to/from
hot, change to/from ganged breakers).

Jim Stuyck


"Ben Siders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This weekend, my new shop walls are going up, and I need to start thinking
> about how to wire it. Ideally, this is what I want to do:
>
> 1 120V circuit for machines (many, many plugs)
> 1 220V circuit for hard core machines (a few plug)
> 1 120V circuit for lighting
> 1 120V circuit for any dust collection
>
> The last circuit there would probably just be 1 whip across the floor
> joists to plug in a ceiling-mounted collector unit, so that's trivial and
> could even come off a circuit in the next room.
>
> I plan on this shop being used for a hobbyist but I'm also thinking of
> resale of the home, especially if the potential buyer is any kind of
> handycraftsy person. Is 4 circuits too much? How many outlets would you
> recommend, and is that 220V line really necessary? I have no current
> plans for 220V machines but that doesn't mean I may not get them
> eventually. Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
> circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell me
> why).
>
> TIA!

In article <[email protected]>,
Ben Siders <[email protected]> wrote:
>This weekend, my new shop walls are going up, and I need to start thinking
>about how to wire it. Ideally, this is what I want to do:
>
>1 120V circuit for machines (many, many plugs)
>1 220V circuit for hard core machines (a few plug)
>1 120V circuit for lighting
>1 120V circuit for any dust collection
>
>The last circuit there would probably just be 1 whip across the floor
>joists to plug in a ceiling-mounted collector unit, so that's trivial and
>could even come off a circuit in the next room.
>
>I plan on this shop being used for a hobbyist but I'm also thinking of
>resale of the home, especially if the potential buyer is any kind of
>handycraftsy person. Is 4 circuits too much? How many outlets would you
>recommend, and is that 220V line really necessary? I have no current
>plans for 220V machines but that doesn't mean I may not get them
>eventually. Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
>circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell me
>why).
>

Is lights on their own circuit _necessary_? No. *GOOD*IDEA*(tm)? hell yes.

why? what happens to the lights if "something else" sharing the circuit
overloads and causes the breaker to blow?


The _first_ thing you need to do is consult the electrical code requirements
for your locale. each 220 outlet may _have_ to be on a separate circuit,
just for starters..

As for 4 circuits being "too many", I've got _ten_ circuits in my *kitchen*.
(one for lights, one for stove, one for refrigerator, one for dishwasher,
and _six_ circuits for the outlets.) Admittedly, I've got a -lot- of
counter-top appliances, and running several at the same time _is_ likely
e.g. electric skillet, microwave, toaster, bread machine, and blender.


I'd recommend at least 3 220 circuits. each with a single outlet.
(Note, if you don't have 220 use _currently_, you can put a single
'split' duplex outlet in the box, and have 2 120VAC outlets -- until
you need the 220u)

Then I'd add _at_least_ two 120V outlets, -- put *lots* of outlets
around the walls, and alternate which circuits they're on. (you may need
to run, for example, a vacuum and "something else")

*ANY* chance that 'more than one' person might be working in the place
_at_the_same_time_ ?? If "absolutely not" (even in the future, after
you've sold the place), then go ahead and wire to support *only*one*
device in use at any time.

Other things to think about, that may affect electrical needs:
Air conditioning? Dehumidifier?

"Ben Siders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:54:41 +0000, Steve wrote:
>
>
> > That depends - are you with the code enforcement division? ;^)
>
> Heh, no. I've done a few really tiny wiring projects (install a GFCB, for
> example), I'm just trying to guess if I can do all this on my own. I did
> took a few home electricity classes in high school, but that was 10 years
> ago.

As long as you have clear access the wiring part is rather easy.
Check your local library for books on home wiring. There are likely some
available which will get you acquainted with what you are going to do.
If you aren't currently using 220V you can hook it up as 110 in the
meantime.
That way when you have a need for 220 all you need is a new breaker and a
receptacle.
Leave a bit of slack in the main panel so that you can rewire if that
happens.

-Jack

Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
> circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell me
> why).

snip


Because at the worst possible time, usually in the middle of a rip on
your table saw, the circut will trip.

TroyD

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:44:54 +0000, Steve wrote:

> Lights on separate circuit? YES. If a machine blows a circuit, you
> won't be in the dark.
>

Ah, good point. Especially since my shop is in the basement.

> 15 amps Lights
> 20 amps (115) outlets around wall
> 20 amps (230) table saw
> 20 amps (230) dust collection (future)
> 20 amps (115) garage door opener, outdoor lights
> 20 amps (115) A/C, heater outlet
> + 3 open spots in sub-panel for anything in the future.

Did you install all these yourself or hire an electrician?

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:54:41 +0000, Steve wrote:


> That depends - are you with the code enforcement division? ;^)

Heh, no. I've done a few really tiny wiring projects (install a GFCB, for
example), I'm just trying to guess if I can do all this on my own. I did
took a few home electricity classes in high school, but that was 10 years
ago.

I realize this may be getting late on a reply, but I just finished
wiring my new shop, relativly large by many standards, but I already
wish it was bigger....
Anyway, I currently have 8 120 V circuits supporting 32 duplex
outlets. I haven't installed anything for lighting yet but am
planning on at least 2 circuits (I am guessing I will have about 3000
watts of lights installed eventually (combination of fluorescent and
halogen). I have 2 - 20A 240V, 1 30A 240V, and 2 50A 240V outlets
throughout.

What you are asking for isn't too much by any idea.

Lights should be on their own circuit in case you blow a breaker
operating a tool. You don't want to be groping around in the dark,
waiting for a machine to coast down, or find the switch before
resetting the breaker...

--Rick

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:37:31 GMT, "Ben Siders" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>This weekend, my new shop walls are going up, and I need to start thinking
>about how to wire it. Ideally, this is what I want to do:
>
>1 120V circuit for machines (many, many plugs)
>1 220V circuit for hard core machines (a few plug)
>1 120V circuit for lighting
>1 120V circuit for any dust collection
>
>The last circuit there would probably just be 1 whip across the floor
>joists to plug in a ceiling-mounted collector unit, so that's trivial and
>could even come off a circuit in the next room.
>
>I plan on this shop being used for a hobbyist but I'm also thinking of
>resale of the home, especially if the potential buyer is any kind of
>handycraftsy person. Is 4 circuits too much? How many outlets would you
>recommend, and is that 220V line really necessary? I have no current
>plans for 220V machines but that doesn't mean I may not get them
>eventually. Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
>circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell me
>why).
>
>TIA!

"Ben Siders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This weekend, my new shop walls are going up, and I need to start
thinking
> about how to wire it. Ideally, this is what I want to do:
>
> 1 120V circuit for machines (many, many plugs)
> 1 220V circuit for hard core machines (a few plug)
> 1 120V circuit for lighting
> 1 120V circuit for any dust collection
>
> The last circuit there would probably just be 1 whip across the floor
> joists to plug in a ceiling-mounted collector unit, so that's trivial
and
> could even come off a circuit in the next room.
>
> I plan on this shop being used for a hobbyist but I'm also thinking of
> resale of the home, especially if the potential buyer is any kind of
> handycraftsy person. Is 4 circuits too much? How many outlets would
you
> recommend, and is that 220V line really necessary? I have no current
> plans for 220V machines but that doesn't mean I may not get them
> eventually. Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
> circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell
me
> why).
>
> TIA!

Lights on separate circuit? YES. If a machine blows a circuit, you
won't be in the dark.

My shop:

15 amps Lights
20 amps (115) outlets around wall
20 amps (230) table saw
20 amps (230) dust collection (future)
20 amps (115) garage door opener, outdoor lights
20 amps (115) A/C, heater outlet

+ 3 open spots in sub-panel for anything in the future.

In article <[email protected]>, "Ben Siders" <[email protected]> wrote:
>This weekend, my new shop walls are going up, and I need to start thinking
>about how to wire it. Ideally, this is what I want to do:
>
>1 120V circuit for machines (many, many plugs)

Not enough IMO, if there is any possibility that more than one person will be
working in the shop simultaneously. I recommend two 20A 120V circuits at a
minimum for machinery.

>1 220V circuit for hard core machines (a few plug)

Again, probably not enough, if there is a possibility of two people in the
shop at once. Two 30A 240V, or one each 20A and 30A, is better.

>1 120V circuit for lighting

Good idea. Lights should never be on the same circuit as the receptacles that
power your machines. Example: the first time I used my table saw after moving
into our current house (workshop in basement), I unknowingly plugged it into a
receptacle on the same 15A circuit as the overhead lights. The instant I
turned it on, the fluorescent lights dimmed to the approximate brightness of a
birthday candle. NOT a good thing.

>1 120V circuit for any dust collection

You may in time decide that a 240V dust collector would serve your needs
better. So anticipate that need, and run *both* 120V and 240V circuits.

>
>The last circuit there would probably just be 1 whip across the floor
>joists to plug in a ceiling-mounted collector unit, so that's trivial and
>could even come off a circuit in the next room.

OK, wait a second here. Ceiling-mounted units are dust *filters*, not
collectors. You really should have one of *each* IMO. (That subject has been
beaten to death in this ng. Check Google for all the gory details.)

>
>I plan on this shop being used for a hobbyist but I'm also thinking of
>resale of the home, especially if the potential buyer is any kind of
>handycraftsy person. Is 4 circuits too much? How many outlets would you
>recommend, and is that 220V line really necessary? I have no current
>plans for 220V machines but that doesn't mean I may not get them
>eventually. Is it really necessary to have the lights on their own
>circuit (this was recommended to me repeatedly, but nobody could tell me
>why).

Four circuits is not enough IMO -- you can *never* have "enough". Yes, the
220/240V line is necessary. Having the lights on a separate circuit is not
required by Code, but as I noted above it's sure a good idea.

My shop contains a table saw, dust collector, shaper, lathe (all 240V),
bandsaw, radial arm saw, drill press, belt/disc sander, spindle sander,
jointer, grinder, planer, mortiser, scroll saw, air filter, two exhaust fans,
and a variety of portable power tools (all 120V). SWMBO and the kids (15 and
12) are woodworkers too, so it's not unusual that we have the dust collector,
the air filter, and two or three machines running at once.

We have six circuits in the shop:

The lathe and the dust collector share a 20A 240V circuit.

The table saw and shaper share a 30A 240V circuit.

Bandsaw, drill press, air filter, scroll saw, and mortiser share a 20A 120V
circuit.

Radial arm saw, jointer, and planer share a 20A 120V circuit. (I know it seems
that this overloads the circuit, but the shop is kinda small, and its layout
prevents the use of more than one of these at a time.) The grinder and sanders
are on this circuit as well.

Lights are on a 15A 120V circuit.

Exhaust fans are on a 20A 120V circuit.

Portable tools usually get plugged into the same circuit as the air filter.
sometimes the same circuit as the lights.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW